Other countries using Brit-type DPM?

[Britboy]

Alright all,

Anyone know of any other countries that use DPM as the pattern for their combats?

I know the Dutch do, and have found http://www.genuinearmysurplus.co.uk/pages/products/detail/rowid=799

But was thinking does anyone know of any other nations who use either Woodland or Desert DPM for their kit, and where you could get this kit from?

I believe NZ uses DPM too, as well as Romania (desert pattern).

Cheers guys!
BB

[DnA]

I haven't seen any of the Romanians out here with DPM, they got their own desert camo. The Portaguese are wearing Woodland DPM.

When the Canadian Airborne was around, they wore a DPM Jump Smock also some Recce Plt guys wore DPM smocks aswell(but since we've gotten CADPAT they've stopped).

[Britboy]

Cheers mate. Good luck out there!

Found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_camouflage_patterns#Europe_O-Z
Which says that a LOT of countries use DPM - but I'm guessing the majority don't have unusual new designs of clothing and probably received it as part of some military aid package.

Also found this:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2160630
So the Romanians must've got a new desert cam meanwhile? (Possibly because the Brit clothing contract has gone to China rather than Romania so no more economies of scale for them to continue wearing DPM...?)

Shame really, it looks like they made ripstop trousers, which could've been a good thing when crawling around lots or falling over barbed wire fences...

Regards
BB

[CMNot]

There's some knocking about over in Australasia somewhere. Maybe Singapore or Indonesia, can't remember off the top of my head; there's pics on here somewhere. NZ does (or did) use DPM pattern, but from what I saw of it there was a marked difference in colours and/or tones used.

[Britboy]

Yeh, I found reference to a woollen showerproof shirt/jacket called a swanndry that is apparently traditional rural wear there, that was made in DPM for the NZDF...

From the previous MP.net thread it looks like Romanian cammies are DPM, the temperate ones look the same as Brit ones but the desert ones looked ripstop... Unless they have got new togs as DNA reports?

The Dutch make their own togs out of DPM, and I know Iraq used to have them but believe it was military aid stuff so no different uniform/design, just same as British issue...

Hmmm Portuguese? And older Canadian? Interesting...

Trying to find out about other countries that use DPM in their own clothes, as opposed to using the same designs as we do. Since I got a Dutch DPM poncho awhile ago (better than the old green 58 ponchos we had for shelter!) I've realised that theres bound to be a lot of good decent field kit out there that is in the right pattern, just not from a UK source...

Cheers
BB

[Niels]

Yeh, I found reference to a woollen showerproof shirt/jacket called a swanndry that is apparently traditional rural wear there, that was made in DPM for the NZDF...

From the previous MP.net thread it looks like Romanian cammies are DPM, the temperate ones look the same as Brit ones but the desert ones looked ripstop... Unless they have got new togs as DNA reports?

The Dutch make their own togs out of DPM, and I know Iraq used to have them but believe it was military aid stuff so no different uniform/design, just same as British issue...

Hmmm Portuguese? And older Canadian? Interesting...

Trying to find out about other countries that use DPM in their own clothes, as opposed to using the same designs as we do. Since I got a Dutch DPM poncho awhile ago (better than the old green 58 ponchos we had for shelter!) I've realised that theres bound to be a lot of good decent field kit out there that is in the right pattern, just not from a UK source...

Cheers
BBI don't think you'll have much luck obtaining DPM material from countries not already mentioned here, e.g. Saudi-Arabia, Oman, Kuwait, Sierra Leone, Egypt, Algeria, etc. Most of it probably is standard British DPM issue anyway, like you said. Russia makes its own DPM uniforms though.

If you are looking for NL DPM stuff, I can get you some links.

[Britboy]

That'd be cool, thanks! I loved the Dutch DPM poncho over the old green 58 ponchos we had, but now they have brought out a new shelter sheet so that wins out these days. But just realised that there is a lot of DPM stuff out there that is the right pattern and may be good kit, so any links to foreign DPM stuff would be great, cheers!

Regards
BB

[Niels]

http://www.aprilorange.nl/
http://www.militaria4you.com/ (Kleding en uitrusting -> kleding algemeen)
http://www.militariashop.nl/

[b4bhc]

Hello,

I do know that NZ uses an almost exact copy of the British DPM right now. I trained with them about a year ago and the DPM I traded with them and the Royal Marines are almost exactaly alike.
Also, I found out that Kenya uses a direct local copy of the British DPM.
Hope that helps.
I have been trying to find Portugal DPM for awhile now? Anybody know of any links for that?
Thank you.

[oscarni]

I think the Russians call it Smog, their version of DPM. I wish the sods would standardise.

[GorkoSan]

Slovenian Special Forces used to use DPM, they no longer seem to.

[capixaba]

Trinidad defence force use DPM.

[b4bhc]

Hello,

To Capixaba and Gorkosan:

Do you know if those countries use actual British made DPM or foreign made copies?
Thanks.

[capixaba]

Not really sure - the troops I saw it looked quite a strong bright green, more jungle green than temparate, so it may be a locally produced variant. Wearing or importing any camo is illegal in Trini, but the guys I know there were falling over to buy my (UK) DPM.:)

[ICUS]

Hello,

To Capixaba and Gorkosan:

Do you know if those countries use actual British made DPM or foreign made copies?
Thanks.

All of the countries mentioned thus far in this thread use locally-produced DPM uniforms. The only exception I know of is the original Romanian desert uniform, which it is believed was made from surplus British desert camouflage cloth.

Admittedly I cannot say for sure about the Trididad Armed Forces, who may well use old British DPM uniforms. Perhaps someone could share a couple photographs of this nation's Armed Forces to illustrate the uniform in use.

Some countries that did, at one point, use surplus British DPM uniforms, are: Ireland (ARW - but only for a brief period), Pakistan (SSG), Sri Lanka (STF - uniforms reputedly donated by British Keeny Meeny Services to original cadre), and the Namibian Police. Kenya has worn DPM for many years, but all uniforms appear to be locally produced from a variety of different types of cloth. I have one uniform from a Kenyan officer assigned as a UN observer about 10 years ago that was custom-made from the British DPM temperate cloth used on the 1984 pattern uniform.

Another very long topic, but seems to have been well-covered in the other thread.

[Britboy]

Hmmm that 84 pattern was thick (remember buying a jacket off a car boot when I was a wee air cadet and had to provide own cammies), it couldn't have been much fun to wear in Kenya...

And Cap, just because it was bright greeny doesn't mean it wasn't British. I used to have an old tropical shirt (again, air cadet back in the day, no clue what to buy off market stalls...) and it was damn near luminous! I think the newer ones are 'toned down' quite a bit, but the old style trops are pretty bright. The shirt had 2 chest pockets with brown buttons, a zip and button front, a collar that could be buttoned up, epaulettes, and a pen pocket on one arm, I think, sound familiar??

[retrobob]

The Papua New Guinea Defence Force-PNGDF use an Australian made DPM pattern uniform.There were some recent pics of PNGDF troops in the Oceania Armies thread a few months back.

[Cdt.Hawkins]

In a book I've got, it says that the Australian SAS used an Australian made version of dpm before auscam.

[shocker_HKG]

The Papua New Guinea Defence Force-PNGDF use an Australian made DPM pattern uniform.There were some recent pics of PNGDF troops in the Oceania Armies thread a few months back.

I think PNGDF is using New Zealand DPM combat uniform. p-)

[a_very_ex_STAB]

I think the Indonesian Army uses British pattern DPM

[Vince S]

Canada considered DPM before opting for Cadpat, here's an article:



My information regarding the Canadian “Experimental” Combat Uniform is actually derived from several sources. The first is a written history of the Canadian Airborne Regiment, which has an entire chapter devoted to development of the 1975 Pattern DPM Parachutist’s Smock. This is the same Para Smock that has been flooding eBay for the past year as a result of existing stocks being sold as government surplus when CADPAT was adopted. In any case, the actual Officer charged with designing and producing the Canadian P1975 Para Smock wrote about it in the Regimental history. He makes specific mention of the Canadian-manufactured DPM combat uniform while discussing development of the Para Smock, so here are the facts straight from “the horse’s mouth”.

In 1974, Lt Col G.R. Hirter was posted into the Canadian Airborne Regiment as the Deputy Commanding Officer. The Regiment had been “smockless” since its creation in 1968, despite efforts to have the Canadian Procurement System develop and issue an official Parachutist’s smock. The previous 1950’s-era OD Nylon smock had ceased production with the 1958 demise of the Airborne Regiment’s predecessor formation, the Mobile Striking Force (MSF). Stocks of the OD Smock had disappeared by the time the Airborne Regiment “stood up” in 1968, and efforts in the first 6 years of the Regiment’s existence to obtain a smock through official channels had proven fruitless.

The lack of a distinctive Para Smock for the Airborne Regiment had significant morale implications. The Commanding Officer of the Regiment (Col G. Lessard) therefore directed LCol Hirter to arrange production of a smock as a “private purchase” item in time for the unit’s Change of Command parade in the summer of 1975. He had less than year to make this happen, from design through to delivery. The Regiment would “foot the bill” for the initial procurement of 1000 smocks, with the costs recovered through their sale to unit members through the Regimental Kit Shop (along with the usual Airborne T-shirts, jump boots, PT gear, etc). The troops had unanimously agreed that they would each pay up to $50 for a smock. Based on that, LCol Hirter approached Peerless Garments of Winnipeg Manitoba - a major Canadian Army clothing contractor. This is where the story gets interesting, and directly connects to manufacture of the “Experimental” DPM Combat Uniform.
All Canadian Army field clothing at the time (1974) was OG 107. As a result, there was no “mil-spec” heavy-weight disruptive camouflage pattern material available through government suppliers. Peerless Garments graciously agreed to do a “private purchase” run of Para smocks based on the pattern of the 1950’s OD Nylon smock that LCol Hirter provided as a sample. However, to create a disruptive pattern it would have to be printed on clear stock material, not an over-print of existing OD material. Just when things were looking bleak, one of the Peerless Garments Sales Supervisors mentioned that the company had just signed a new contract to produce a disruptive pattern combat shirt and pants for the Tanzanian Armed Forces. The contract was so new that it was not yet general knowledge among the Peerless Garments management team. Celanese Chemicals of Montreal Quebec, had been sub-contracted to produce the camouflage material that Peerless would use to produce the Tanzanian combat uniforms
. The pattern that the Tanzanian Government had selected was the standard British DPM but in slightly different colour tones - the "Tan" base-colour was an "orange-brown" and the Green was a bright, "rich" tone.

The Airborne Regiment approved the "Tanzanian DPM” pattern for the new smocks, and LCol Hirter arranged for Celanese Chemicals to produce additional material (printed on a heavier “windproof” material) at the end of the Tanzanian contract. Peerless Garments agreed to produce the smocks as a “favour” to the Airborne Regiment for $40 per smock, and the order was placed. Word soon got out about the Airborne Regiment’s unofficial smock contract, creating a huge uproar (and considerable embarrassment) within the Canadian Army Clothing Procurement office. The Chief of Defence Staff heard that the Airborne Regiment’s Soldiers were prepared to pay for their smocks out of their own pockets, and immediately directed the Clothing Procurement office to assume responsibility for the contract using public funds. In a matter of days, an “end-run” by the Regiment through the Commander of the Canadian Forces had overcome 6 years of stone-walling by low-level clothing bureaucrats. The Peerless Garmen
ts order was quickly expand!
ed, and the original pattern cobbled together by LCol Hirter was adopted unchanged as the official Canadian Forces “Smock, Parachutist, Disruptive Pattern”. One final note worthy of mention is the fact that the Airborne Regiment soon discovered Peerless Garments (a family-run business in 1975) had given them a tremendous deal on their initial private-purchase arrangement. The company would have barely broken even, and probably would have lost money on the order. However when the Canadian Government officially took over the contract, Peerless Garments was paid a higher price per smock to ensure a reasonable profit. Better yet, the order was increased to 1200 smocks plus a scheduled follow-on maintenance procurement of hundreds more each year. As a result of their cooperation and generosity, Peerless received continual Canadian Army Clothing contracts, many of which continue to this day. One final point about the Canadian DPM Para Smock – you will note that on the recent-production smocks, the standard British D!
PM colours have been reversed. The Tan base-colour and the Green have been swapped to produce a pattern which is much more brown overall. Check it out. I cannot say when this occurred, nor can I say when Para smocks began to be produced with the light Tan base-colour and a lighter green, as opposed to the darker "Orange-Brown" base-colour and "Rich Green" of the original Tanzanian pattern. I have seen examples of recent-production smocks in both colour schemes. OK – enough about the Canadian Para Smock – just a bit of verified historical background for those who happen to own one.

Based on everything that my research has determined, I do not believe that the uniform in question can be accurately described as an “Experimental” Canadian uniform. We now know for a fact that the Canadian-manufactured DPM Combat Uniform was produced by Peerless Garments specifically for the Tanzanian Army. I would suggest that the uniform is most accurately described as the “Canadian-manufactured 1975 Tanzanian DPM Pattern” (or words to that effect). The bottom line is that any “experimentation” with the uniform by the Canadian Army was (at best) an afterthought. Describing it as being “experimental” does not reflect the uniform’s true reason for manufacture, nor its documented military use.

My final point is a bit of a warning to those lucky enough to have an example of the (now) rare Canadian-manufactured Tanzanian DPM uniform. Simply stated, they are notorious for premature fading. Given a few hot-water washings, the uniform will rapidly fade and the pattern will blend into an overall “washed-out brown” appearance. The textile technology employed by Celanese Chemicals in 1974/75 was clearly inferior to that which is currently used to print the new CADPAT (extremely fade-resistant). Not surprisingly, the P1975 DPM Canadian Para Smock suffers from the exact same problem despite the fact that it is manufactured using a thicker wind-proof material. So, a friendly word of warning for those who have purchased the Canadian Para Smocks as well – cold water wash and hang-dry only!!!

Sorry for the length of this message, but I thought that those with an interest in the Canadian DPM items might appreciate some detailed information regarding the developmental histories of those particular items. If nothing else, the story of the Para Smock is entertaining for it’s unconventional approach to uniform procurement! I trust that my research has helped clear up any uncertainty out there regarding the origins of the Canadian-manufactured DPM combat uniforms.

Oh, one final teaser – I’m pretty sure that at some point, the South Africans produced a “Recce Copy” of the Canadian-manufactured Tanzanian DPM uniform for their own covert operations. I seem to recall that “Lyleman” had an example of such a uniform. Based on his photo, it was a pretty good effort – nearly indistinguishable from the original Peerless Garments product. The visual give-aways were the slightly different colour tones (brighter) and overly-dark plastic buttons. An interesting related tidbit eh? Shifting my focus towards the “Experimental” Canadian DPM uniform, a number of things become apparent. First and foremost is the fact that this particular uniform was manufactured by Peerless Garments (DPM material by Celanese Chemicals) specifically for the Tanzanian Army contract. It was not merely an “Experimental” uniform as many folks mistakenly believe. In addition to LCol Hirter’s verification of this fact, I have personally seen close-up photos of the Tanzanian Army on parade wearing the uniform discussed by LCol Hirter. It is the exact same "Experimental" uniform depicted in this club’s “Canadian Combat Gear” album. This leads me to the inescapable conclusion that they are all one and the same.

A large number of these distinctive uniforms were sold in surplus stores across Canada during the late 1970’s and early 1980’s. My educated guess is that the surplus “experimental” DPM uniforms were nothing more than excess production from Peerless Garments' Tanzanian contract, subsequently sold off by the company.

I have personally owned and or examined at least 10 of these uniforms over the years, and can verify that they all contained the same white collar-tag with black felt-pen size marking described by “Lyleman”. None contained the standard DND size and manufacturer’s tag (white cloth with black printing) that is stitched inside the lower right front of a Canadian Combat Shirt, nor the large “Instructions” tag stitched inside the lower right back. The configuration, stitching, features, and unique 50/50 NYCO material of the Tanzanian DPM uniform is identical in every regard to the standard Canadian OG 107 Combat uniform. Indeed, the only discernable differences between two uniforms are the tags and the colouration. This makes eminent sense once you realize that the Tanzanian uniform was manufactured by the primary Canadian Army combat uniform contractor.

To summarize, the Tanzanian contract uniforms discussed by LCol Hirter and depicted in photos of the Tanzanian Army, the uniforms once available in Canadian surplus stores, and the uniform photo described as "Experimental" in the “Canadian Combat Gear” album on this web-site, are all the exact same thing.

As for the Canadian-manufactured DPM Combat Uniform having ever been the subject of formal Canadian Army “Experiments” (field trials), this appears doubtful. I have asked several of the older NCOs in my unit (3 PPCLI) if any of them recall a trial with the Canadian-manufactured DPM uniform during the period 1975 to 1995. None can remember any such experiments. They do distinctly recall a number of other experimental camo patterns trialled by the Canadian Army between the mid-1980’s and mid-1990’s, however those were all new and unique experimental patterns based on the U.S. Tiger Stripe, Mitchell/Wine Leaf, and several other “bizarre” variants. The only DPM-related trial that the “old salts” know of, was a short-lived trial of wind-proof DPM “Para Over-Pants” conducted by the Canadian Airborne Regiment.

Most of the older NCOs do clearly remember seeing the Canadian-manufactured DPM Combat Uniforms for sale in surplus stores in late 1970’s and early ‘80’s. They remember the uniform because no one knew at the time who had manufactured them or why. The DPM uniforms therefore became a bit of a mystery. My educated guess is that most folks simply assumed the “mystery” uniforms were an experimental pattern produced for unsuccessful Canadian Army trials, and the assumption was eventually accepted as fact. Regardless, the verifiable truth is that the DPM Canadian uniforms were specifically produced by Peerless Garments solely for the Tanzanian Army contract. Any trials conducted by the Canadian Army would have been an “afterthought”.

Tubemall has plenty of company regarding his desire to obtain a CADPAT uniform for evaluation and/or addition to a collection. Unfortunately, everyone outside of soldiers serving in the Canadian Army is going to face a considerable wait. Heck - even many Canuck soldiers have a long wait ahead of them.

The transition from our OG 107 combat uniform to CADPAT is still very much in the early stages, with only 4 units operationally-tasked units having received the new uniform. My Light Infantry Battalion was the second unit in the Canadian Army to receive the CADPAT, based on our NATO “Immediate Reaction Force (Land)” high-readiness task for deployment to Aghanistan. We underwent conversion to the new uniform in early November. The conversion process to equip the entire Canadian Army with CADPAT will take another 18 months to 2 years, due primarily to contractor production rates.

The CADPAT transition process is being very strictly controlled, with each soldier entitled to a “one for one” exchange of only 3 uniforms. The members of my unit received a 4th set of CADPAT for our imminent deployment to Afghanistan, however this is the exception to the rule. As an aside, given the evident incompatibility of CADPAT with the terrain and climate of our operating area (Kandahar), we will now deploy with desert uniforms instead. These will likely be 3-colour U.S. uniforms due to the fact that the Desert CADPAT has not yet been produced.

Those interested in acquiring a set of genuine issue CADPAT should note that it will not be an easy nor inexpensive undertaking. This situation is a direct result of two factors. The first is that the Canadian Supply system does not permit cash sales of operational clothing. The only way for a civilian to “acquire” an issued CADPAT uniform would be for a serving soldier to first “lose” one in a convincing manner. That soldier would have to submit a written “lost stores report” (which requires investigation and approval by his or her superior), and then pay the replacement cost for a re-issue. As you can appreciate, our tightly controlled clothing system does not make it a simple matter for anyone to obtain extra CADPAT uniforms for sale or trade on the open market. The second factor is that spare stocks of CADPAT will be extremely limited (read non-existent) for the next 2 years or so, until everyone in the Canadian Army has received their initial issue. All of the above to say that any civilian interested in obtaining a set of CADPAT should be prepared to wait a while, and/or pay an exorbitant price.
To give you a better sense of the restrictions surrounding any “leak” of CADPAT to foreign or non-military personnel and the relative value of the uniform on the collector’s market, I will relate a short tale. Two non-ccountable “trials” uniforms (shirt and pants) recently appeared for sale in a local surplus shop where I am based. Both uniforms sold within a week for the equivalent of $250 USD apiece. This was just the shirt and pants – no matching “boonie hat”. There is now a Military Police investigation regarding the source of the uniforms and their current whereabouts.

As you can see from the above, it will be some time before sizeable quantities of CADPAT “leak” onto the collector market. First off, supplies are extremely limited – no soldier is going to give up one of the 3 issued sets that he needs to function at work. Second, soldiers who do manage to acquire extra CADPAT for themselves are going to be very reluctant to sell any if a Military Police investigation is likely to ensue.

I fully expect that all of the “hoopla” will eventually subside, once everyone in the Canadian Army has been issued the new uniform and available stocks reach a “steady state”. After all, once the general issue process reaches our Army Reserves (who are far less accountable than the Regular Army), CADPAT will inevitably start to appear in the surplus stores. However I strongly suspect that CADPAT will not be available to any civilian collector without a very good “in”, for at least 2 years.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the above at least provides those who are interested in acquiring a set of CADPAT with a bit more insight regarding the challenge they face. The bottom line is that CADPAT will remain one of the “holy grails” of the camo uniform collecting world for the foreseeable future.

Until CADPAT becomes more readily available on the open market, I'm afraid that you'll just have to trust me regarding the effectiveness of the pattern. Meanwhile, I will try to write again within the next couple of days to address the specifics of CADPAT development and its measured efficiency. I also have definitive information that will put to rest the "chicken and egg" question regarding CADPAT versus MARPAT development.


Shifting my focus towards the “Experimental” Canadian DPM uniform, a number of things become apparent. First and foremost is the fact that this particular uniform was manufactured by Peerless Garments (DPM material by Celanese Chemicals) specifically for the Tanzanian Army contract. It was not merely an “Experimental” uniform as many folks mistakenly believe. In addition to LCol Hirter’s verification of this fact, I have personally seen close-up photos of the Tanzanian Army on parade wearing the uniform discussed by LCol Hirter. It is the exact same "Experimental" uniform depicted in this club’s “Canadian Combat Gear” album. This leads me to the inescapable conclusion that they are all one and the same.

A large number of these distinctive uniforms were sold in surplus stores across Canada during the late 1970’s and early 1980’s. My educated guess is that the surplus “experimental” DPM uniforms were nothing more than excess production from Peerless Garments' Tanzanian contract, subsequently sold off by the company.

I have personally owned and or examined at least 10 of these uniforms over the years, and can verify that they all contained the same white collar-tag with black felt-pen size marking described by “Lyleman”. None contained the standard DND size and manufacturer’s tag (white cloth with black printing) that is stitched inside the lower right front of a Canadian Combat Shirt, nor the large “Instructions” tag stitched inside the lower right back. The configuration, stitching, features, and unique 50/50 NYCO material of the Tanzanian DPM uniform is identical in every regard to the standard Canadian OG 107 Combat uniform. Indeed, the only discernable differences between two uniforms are the tags and the colouration. This makes eminent sense once you realize that the Tanzanian uniform was manufactured by the primary Canadian Army combat uniform contractor.

To summarize, the Tanzanian contract uniforms discussed by LCol Hirter and depicted in photos of the Tanzanian Army, the uniforms once available in Canadian surplus stores, and the uniform photo described as "Experimental" in the “Canadian Combat Gear” album on this web-site, are all the exact same thing.

As for the Canadian-manufactured DPM Combat Uniform having ever been the subject of formal Canadian Army “Experiments” (field trials), this appears doubtful. I have asked several of the older NCOs in my unit (3 PPCLI) if any of them recall a trial with the Canadian-manufactured DPM uniform during the period 1975 to 1995. None can remember any such experiments. They do distinctly recall a number of other experimental camo patterns trialled by the Canadian Army between the mid-1980’s and mid-1990’s, however those were all new and unique experimental patterns based on the U.S. Tiger Stripe, Mitchell/Wine Leaf, and several other “bizarre” variants. The only DPM-related trial that the “old salts” know of, was a short-lived trial of wind-proof DPM “Para Over-Pants” conducted by the Canadian Airborne Regiment.

Most of the older NCOs do clearly remember seeing the Canadian-manufactured DPM Combat Uniforms for sale in surplus stores in late 1970’s and early ‘80’s. They remember the uniform because no one knew at the time who had manufactured them or why. The DPM uniforms therefore became a bit of a mystery. My educated guess is that most folks simply assumed the “mystery” uniforms were an experimental pattern produced for unsuccessful Canadian Army trials, and the assumption was eventually accepted as fact. Regardless, the verifiable truth is that the DPM Canadian uniforms were specifically produced by Peerless Garments solely for the Tanzanian Army contract. Any trials conducted by the Canadian Army would have been an “afterthought”.

[b4bhc]

I think the Indonesian Army uses British pattern DPM


You're correct. It is almost a perfect copy of the British DPM, but it is still a copy, locally made with the Indonesian army logo on the tag.
Atleast the one I traded for in 2005 does.

[capixaba]

[quote=ICUS;3207164]
Admittedly I cannot say for sure about the Trididad Armed Forces, who may well use old British DPM uniforms. Perhaps someone could share a couple photographs of this nation's Armed Forces to illustrate the uniform in use.

quote]

Intresting wee find on Google ... You can just about shout over to Venezuela, but I am sure it's got nothing to do with this :)

Source http://trinidad.usembassy.gov/military_vests_handover.html (http://trinidad.usembassy.gov/military_vests_handover.html)
2007 Press Releases

U.S. Navy Donates Military Vests to Trinidad and Tobago Defense Force

November 7, 2007
On October 31, the U.S. Embassy and United States Southern Command donated military protective vests to the Trinidad and Tobago Defence Force. These military vests are a part of the initial shipment of military equipment ordered for the Trinidad and Tobago Defense Force - Special Forces, Coast Guard and Trinidad and Tobago Defense Force Regiment. Over the next few months, the United States will donate military equipment valued at approximately $900,000TT to help build working relationships and to ensure the Trinidad and Tobago Defence Force has the most modern equipment available to carry out its work.

[Britboy]

Hmm thats odd, on that photo it looks like they have BDUs made up in DPM material, as opposed to just getting British issue 95s or trops.

Also interesting that they are supplying them with Interceptor body armour, and the Coastguard involvement too (thought they cut a dash in blue as opposed to cammies, but meh)

[sneakyacorn]

NZ uses a cheaper version of the Brit DPM, the material is very differant and is not as durable but the pattern is almost identicle. When worn in swimming pools for swim tests it fades within days to a lighter colour. The SF units (and some wannbes) use Brit uniforms, much more duriable. There is a differant version for the LAV crews which is flame retardent and there was a knew uniform floating around HQ a few years ago, it didnt seem to go much further than the trial stage for some reason, looked cool though and it had a nifty chinese collar which had magnets to hold it in place (dont know how shooting bearings would work in it though?). The PNG DF from what i recall used a combination of uniforms Aus, US and NZDF i dont know if they have settled on a Uniform but the Aussies were giving them harness webbing and boots last time i was in the region.

oh yeah and the Swandry stopped being issued in the mid 90's i think, real shame good bit of kit

[capixaba]

Hmm thats odd, on that photo it looks like they have BDUs made up in DPM material, as opposed to just getting British issue 95s or trops.

Also interesting that they are supplying them with Interceptor body armour, and the Coastguard involvement too (thought they cut a dash in blue as opposed to cammies, but meh)

Just noticed the half empty bottle of Absolut on the shelf at the back :)

[antagonist22]

Just a pic I made to show the difference between NZDPM and DPM

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9924/nzdpmvsdpmuj6.jpg

[ICUS]

Gents,

A couple of replies here have suggested there has only been one type of British and one type of New Zealand DPM camouflage. Nothing could be further from the truth, however. In the years since DPM was introduced, there have been multiple variations issued by the British MOD as well as NZ MOD. These variations reflect differences in the type of cloth, types of dye used to print the camouflage scheme, colour dye combinations, and of course the full cut of the uniforms. A comparison of the different variations would be a lengthy study, and far too involved for a thread such as this one. Suffice to say, however, that there is far more to the scope of this discussion than simple categorization of British DPM in one corner, and Kiwi DPM in another.

Cheers,

ICUS

[sgtoutback]

their is an interesting book that has many of the answers to the questions this thread. Sorry I don't have a copy. But have looked through it and it is full of information on the differant types of DPM and countries using it etc.
Regards
http://www.amazon.co.uk/DPM-Disruptive-Material-Encyclopaedia-Camouflage/dp/095434040X

[GorkoSan]

Hello,

To Capixaba and Gorkosan:

Do you know if those countries use actual British made DPM or foreign made copies?
Thanks.

Slovenian SF did use genuine British DPM.

[Britboy]

Well we have a wealth of knowledge on this, I didn't know there were small variations and differences etc, just wondered who used DPM so I might one day acquire a swandrry or some equally outlandish togs, much to everyones consternationp-)

If we do have so much knowledge I may start another 'gucci smock' thread however, because if you go to any surplus store there are so many different smocks with 'windproof', 'arctic', 'falklands', 'version 2,3,4...' etc etc etc in the name that I wonder what on earth are the differences between them all. I mean a jackets a jacket, how many differences can there be... But I will leave that thread for a little while I think...

Apparently back in the day, Barbour used to make one of their wax jackets in DPM, now that would be just the thing for the man about town :p

[Royal]

Apparently back in the day, Barbour used to make one of their wax jackets in DPM, now that would be just the thing for the man about town :p

The Beaufort - great worn under a ghillie suit for crawling through gorse when out on the moors :)

[Britboy]

That just couldn't have felt right when on ex without a loader and beaters for you too Royal?:-D

[the_hog]

Swaziland in Southern Africa uses DPM in fact if I remember the uniforms are British army issue and not locally made, weapons were also FN and stirlings.
I have not seen any photos posted of them, they go under the name of Umbutfo defense force.

[Britboy]

Swaziland's Military Forces must have some unusual security strategies going on - they are surrounded on all sides by S Africa, right?

Edited to add: Ooops sorry, thats Lesotho... That'll learn me to try typing without consulting Multimap first!

Regards
BB

[the_hog]

Ja, Swaziland has South Africa on 3 sides North , South and West the eastern boundary is taken up with Mozambique to the north east and Kwazulu Natal to the south.

[ICUS]

Swaziland in Southern Africa uses DPM in fact if I remember the uniforms are British army issue and not locally made, weapons were also FN and stirlings.
I have not seen any photos posted of them, they go under the name of Umbutfo defense force.

The more recent Swaziland DPM uniforms are, in fact, locally made. The ones I have seen were made by Union Supplies Ltd in Mbabane. They are appropriately tagged and have instructions in both English and Swazi/Swati. It has been suggested however, that the cloth for these uniforms was imported, possibly from Indonesia. I have seen older photographs of either Police or Army suggesting use of ex-British Army uniforms as well, however. The Royal Squadron (King's Guard) have worn garish blue & purple DPM pattern variant uniforms made in South Africa.

[CMNot]

blue & purple DPM pattern

Wah?

Must of been a rave...pics or it didn't happen p-)

[Sabre]

Hello,

To Capixaba and Gorkosan:

Do you know if those countries use actual British made DPM or foreign made copies?
Thanks.

The UK doesn't even use British made DPM. It's all made in China now...

[2/1kiwi]

I think PNGDF is using New Zealand DPM combat uniform. p-)


They are still using DPM, but not our version, was working with them a few weeks ago in New Caledonia.

[FMAPDM]

Alright all,

Anyone know of any other countries that use DPM as the pattern for their combats?

I know the Dutch do, and have found http://www.genuinearmysurplus.co.uk/pages/products/detail/rowid=799

But was thinking does anyone know of any other nations who use either Woodland or Desert DPM for their kit, and where you could get this kit from?

I believe NZ uses DPM too, as well as Romania (desert pattern).

Cheers guys!

Argentine army units deployed in Patagonia uses a DPM dessert variation (# 4).
http://www.mercadolibre.com.ar/jm/img?s=MLA&f=34135847_8562.jpg&v=O
BB:):):):):):)

[dave81]

When I hung out with Romanian soldiers, they always pointed out with pride that the British & Italian soldiers' uniforms were actually made in Romania.

[shocker_HKG]

They are still using DPM, but not our version, was working with them a few weeks ago in New Caledonia.

Really :cantbeli: I thought PNGDF use NZ DPM because both of their colors seem yellowish to me.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/93/213051142_26d350bc3d.jpg?v=0NZ

http://raaf.gov.au/opanode/images/gallery/180803/JPAU09AUG03SB01012a_lo.jpgPNGDF

Is it any possible that PNGDF is using various camo patterns in the past decade ? I googles some old pictures of PNGDF but in another patterns, including US Woodland.

http://www.global.net.pg/png_drought_relief/images/gallery/set1/ltfrank.jpg
Joe One and Lieutenant Frank Pomoso of the PNGDF examine the shrivelled contents of a garden in Kosipe. (1997-1998)

http://raaf.gov.au/opanode/images/gallery/180803/JPAU10AUG03SB01002a_lo.jpg
Papua New Guinea Chief of Defence Force, Commodore Peter Ilau, visited his troops who are serving with the Regional Assistance Mission to Solomon Islands. CDRE Ilau also met with Commander of the Regional Assistance Mission to Solomon Islands Military Component, Lieutenant Colonel John Frewen. (Date taken: 10 August 2003)

[antagonist22]

The PNG guy on the right is wearing what looks to be NZDPM except in a BDU cutting?

[ICUS]

Is it any possible that PNGDF is using various camo patterns in the past decade ? I googles some old pictures of PNGDF but in another patterns, including US Woodland.


I have observed several types of camouflage uniforms being worn by the PNGDF, including Australian-made copies of m81 woodland, and what appear to be surplus BDUs in woodland camouflage. The DPM pattern uniforms I have seen were also reputedly made in Australia, not NZ. But who knows, it is possible a batch of clothing was made for PNGDF in New Zealand as well.

[sneakyacorn]

I have observed several types of camouflage uniforms being worn by the PNGDF, including Australian-made copies of m81 woodland, and what appear to be surplus BDUs in woodland camouflage. The DPM pattern uniforms I have seen were also reputedly made in Australia, not NZ. But who knows, it is possible a batch of clothing was made for PNGDF in New Zealand as well.


The PNGDF will take what they can get, good bunch of guys and awesome trackers but getting some form of uniformity amongst the guys is pretty hard. Under funded and under equipped, same ole same ole.

[Tucker217]

Russians use 'Smog' camo which is a similar to 85 pattern dpm and a Grey/blue urban dpm, Yemeni ministry of interior wear light blue dpm and oman uses orange and red dpm.

[Infanteer Two Seven]

Sri Lankans using them
http://www.dailynews.lk/2009/04/18/z_new350.jpg

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/7576/610xawk.jpg

[martinexsquaddie]

Special air sea services for a while was trying to flogg some blue and purple DPM that was apprantly urban dpm probably ended up at raves all it was good for though it was proper kit rather than cheap civi stuff.
barbours made great range gear though our SGT threw a fit when teamed with a large DPM golf umbellia worked suprising well keeping the rain off when machine gunning :)

[Tucker217]

Is there any piccys of the Blue & Purple DPM? :)

[Connaught Ranger]

Just to add to this thread, the Romanian military fields at least 6 types of camo uniform.

Two types in use in Romania, is made from British sourced D.P.M. material both natural camo and desert pattern.

(Will add pictures later.)

Connaught Ranger.

[ayanami_tard]

malaysian army use old birtish dpm up until 1990s(before they changed into zebra/tiger pattern)

and i thought saudi arabia also used them

[Tucker217]

Heres some pics of the DPM ive found...

Chinese/ Iraqi / Qatar Desert dpm
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm315/Tucker217/china_desert_dpm_patternjpeg.jpg

Some African Countries dpm ( No I dea which country)
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm315/Tucker217/afri-1.jpg

Bulgarian Dpm

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm315/Tucker217/bulgaria_dpm_pattern.jpg

[STEPAN1983]

In Russia there is a legend why the DPM copy is called "smog" They say that one of the "creators" was in the second-hand shop and he saw a british smock. With poor language skills, he thougth that "smock" on the label means smog in russian.

Often russian DPM has a smaller scale (smaller spots). SpoSn company sipmly call it DPM. some call it "Kukla" (doll), but it is a name for uniform cut (clone of "Mabuta" uniform), not the pattern.

Sposn made uniform, pattern is called DPM http://narod.yandex.ru/shop.xhtml?site=spezosn&p=178367&g=3&n=7

[mengkom]

The UK doesn't even use British made DPM. It's all made in China now...

indonesian company Sritex also makes desert DPM for UK
www.sritex.co.id
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=98401
http://img312.imageshack.us/img312/8743/dsc04820vc9.jpg

another photos of indonesian DPM
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/6048/indonesiadpmpattern.jpg
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1702/indexcg.jpg

they also makes "pixelated" DPM for Indonesia special force Raider Batallion
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/masbambang/Colection/Indonesian%20Army/RAIDER/Raiders.jpg
http://i31.tinypic.com/i284kw.jpg

[floupe]

I have observed several types of camouflage uniforms being worn by the PNGDF, including Australian-made copies of m81 woodland, and what appear to be surplus BDUs in woodland camouflage. The DPM pattern uniforms I have seen were also reputedly made in Australia, not NZ. But who knows, it is possible a batch of clothing was made for PNGDF in New Zealand as well.

Their DPM uniforms were made in Australia - I have one of the shirts tagged for the PNGDF and made by AGCF (Aust. Govt. Clothing Factory). I don't think they use those uniforms anymore tho'

[sigma3]

Pretty sure the Indonesian stuff is Dutch-type DPM, and not British, isn't it? The pattern is sharper and the color is brighter.

[Tucker217]

No, dutch dpm is a dull coloured dpm with a cloudy over topping, thats Indo dpm because its brighter and uses different colour brown and green.

This is dutch dpm
http://www2.ttcn.ne.jp/camouflage/image/dutch_dpm_shirt.jpg

[sigma3]

It still certainly looks much closer to Dutch than British.

If you knew where to get TNI-AD DPM uniforms to the States on short notice, I'd owe you a keg or two.

[Tucker217]

It still certainly looks much closer to Dutch than British.

If you knew where to get TNI-AD DPM uniforms to the States on short notice, I'd owe you a keg or two.

I'd say it looks more like Brit 84/84 pattern or the newish brit tropicals.

[Ominae]

The former Royal Hong Kong Police and the current Hong Kong Police use the DPM. Only the Special Duties Unit use them currently.

[WolfChief]

Philippine Army (this type was issued late '90's-early 2k's)
http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww126/SGTROCKS_2009/BDAs024.jpg

the one at the right is the current Phil. Army issue
http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww126/SGTROCKS_2009/BDAs.jpg

[546]

Philippine Army (this type was issued late '90's-early 2k's)
the one at the right is the current Phil. Army issue
http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww126/SGTROCKS_2009/BDAs.jpg

I still have a set of that old patternwoot I got in back in '97. I still bring them with me at times whenever I am out in the bush, the new ones are just too bright p-) There's also a pattern released in 2000 but it was darker. It looked smart, especially for inspections but, it was only good whenever you are in camp, not out in the field.

[Marsuitor]

Some our immersion suits we use for maritime work are British type DPM, the rest being black. We have two types; Drysuits with DPM camo and insulated DPM "wetsuits"/overalls with flotation elements in them.
AFAIK these are genuine British issue which were procured out of lack of a Norwegian camo alternative. They even have a NSN and an "Immersian suit, man, camouflage"-label in them.