Reverend Wrights's speech last night, "black brains are different"?

[AGE-Ranger]

Did anyone catch Obama's Pastor latest speech? He spent the first half explaining how black brains are different from white brains.


Video: http://www.hiphopmusic.com/2008/04/rev_wright_naacp_speech_video.html

“Africans have a different meter, and Africans have a different tonality,” he said. Europeans have seven tones, Africans have five. White people clap differently than black people. “Africans and African-Americans are right-brained, subject-oriented in their learning style,” he said. “They have a different way of learning.” And so on.


JEREMIAH WRIGHT: Only black children 50 years ago were singled out as speaking bad English. In the 1961, it's been all over the internet now. John Kennedy could stand at the inauguration and say [attempting to imitate JFK's Boston accent]: "ask not what your country can do for you. Ask rather what you can do for your country." How do you spell "ask"? [which Wright ****ounced "esk" in supposed imitation of JFK].



Wow, this is some racist ****. Can you imagine if a white pastor was out explaining to everyone how the black brain was different from all other human brains? This guy is a moron!


Not surprisingly, CNN's Soledad O'brian actually liked the speech!

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: The whole thing, frankly,was really funny. I think a lot of people have seen Rev. Wright defined as controversial, defined as angry, defined as anti-American: not in that speech. Not in that speech at all. He was funny, he was witty. This is a guy who's got two masters and his doctorate in divinity. Here is a guy who speaks five languages, they took pains in his introduction to point out all his accomplishments.


Note , this is the same network that declared, "all white people are inherently racist".

[WARPIG]

This is the sort of mentality that works toward separation again. Equality is no longer the goal for people like Wright.

[tomonator]

It is definitely bad news for Obama that this guy won't shut up. The good Rev. Wright is going to ride his 15 min of fame all the way. Don't be surprised to see the book tour next. I find it highly ironic that Rev. Wright with his message of black liberation might, in large part, destroy any chance the first serious black candidate has of getting elected.

[gaijinsamurai]

...as someone who will no longer supports Obama, I welcome Rev. Wright's speeches!!!! What a tool!!!!!!!!

The funny thing, is that from my limited experience, I know there are a lot of people in the African-American community who agree with his views. Of course, you can't call them racist. Only the rednecks who support David Duke.

[Lt. James Anderson]

So what exactly is wrong with man expressing his opinion?
Not too PC for you??

[AGE-Ranger]

So what exactly is wrong with man expressing his opinion?
Not too PC for you??

Whats wrong with us commenting on his very vocal opinions?

[Kak]

Note , this is the same network that declared, "all white people are inherently racist".
Do you have a source for that? Are you talking about when one of the panelists on Paula Zahn's "out in the open" program I think it was last year said that? If that's the case, you can hardly claim that it was the "network that declared" that. I think Paula Zahn even repudiated that statement seconds after it was made. Regardless, it was a stupid show, and they would have a white separatist on the panel almost every night, and he had some not so great things to say about black people, even when one was on the panel right next to him. Very uncomfortable to watch.

[AGE-Ranger]

Do you have a source for that? Are you talking about when one of the panelists on Paula Zahn's "out in the open" program I think it was last year said that? If that's the case, you can hardly claim that it was the "network that declared" that. I think Paula Zahn even repudiated that statement seconds after it was made. Regardless, it was a stupid show, and they would have a white separatist on the panel almost every night, and he had some not so great things to say about black people, even when one was on the panel right next to him. Very uncomfortable to watch.

I think you're actually right about the show and the context of the quote, but I remember a fiery defense of that theory by the black speaker. Who by the way, is a prominent annalist on CNN. Than they had the racist white guy there to confirm their theories.

[throwback]

This morning the Righteous Reverend just spouted off again at the Natl' Press Club in DC. It's all over the networks. All the talking heads are spun up; the Obama wonks all have long faces.

HRC may have just won the nomination today.

[Createdeemcee]

Wow, this is some racist ****. Can you imagine if a white pastor was out explaining to everyone how the black brain was different from all other human brains? This guy is a moron!



The speech had nothing to do with race, other than how all races are the centralized focus of the naacp. He has a great huch when her was referring too.



Wow, this is some racist ****. Can you imagine if a white pastor was out explaining to everyone how the black brain was different from all other human brains? This guy is a moron!



Its quite real, I was a so called ADD kid. And some of the things he mentioned were quite valid. He was simply stating that Children that grow up in black american house holds have different learning tactics then kids that grow up in a traditional caucasian american house hold. As a person of both races i can honestly say that Thats very valid, this guys credentials show his true patriotism. Remember leaders do lie to their people as he said in his last speech. If you all dont agree with that your lost. How ever I dont agree with many of the things he said in his last speech.

[AGE-Ranger]

The speech had nothing to do with race, other than how all races are the centralized focus of the naacp. He has a great huch when her was referring too.

The speech had nothing to do with race, yet he specifically separated black and white brains. All while defending his past comments on race, at an event for a group called The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. Meaning, those who are not white.

Common man, its all about race.




Its quite real, I was a so called ADD kid. And some of the things he mentioned were quite valid. He was simply stating that Children that grow up in black american house holds have different learning tactics then kids that grow up in a traditional caucasian american house hold. As a person of both races i can honestly say that Thats very valid, this guys credentials show his true patriotism. Remember leaders do lie to their people as he said in his last speech. If you all dont agree with that your lost. How ever I dont agree with many of the things he said in his last speech.Guess what, I was called an ADD kid too. There are lots of kids that are called stupid, fat, annoying and retarded. Its not something that is unique to the black community. It definitely has nothing to do with different kinds of brains. The fact is, his words are divisive and will end up hurting Obama, because he refuses to condemn him or give a good reason why he was mentored by him.

[gaijinsamurai]

You may have some valid points, Createdmcee, but Barak Obama seriously needs to find a way to get this guy to shut the fvck up, until the election is over. Remember what happened four years ago with Howard Dean? All it took was a few people deciding he didn't portray himself as "presidential", and all of a sudden, the front-runner was all but out of the race.

Of course, the Reverand has a right to speak his opinion, but this kind of thing is what always gets the Democrats in trouble during the elections.

I'll still vote for Obama in the primaries (Oregon's is May 20th), just because I dislike Hillary more, but he's shown himself to be too much of an extremist against the 2nd Amendment for me to vote for him in November.

[Createdeemcee]

Guess what, I was called an ADD kid too. There are lots of kids that are called stupid, fat, annoying and retarded. Its not something that is unique to the black community. It definitely has nothing to do with different kinds of brains. The fact is, his words are divisive and will end up hurting Obama, because he refuses to condemn him or give a good reason why he was mentored by him.

Well buddy, Obama has seperated from Rev. Wright wich means his polls wont hurt, and are still stronger than ever. ADD isnt specified towards blacks.

[SBL]

Its quite real, I was a so called ADD kid. And some of the things he mentioned were quite valid. He was simply stating that Children that grow up in black american house holds have different learning tactics then kids that grow up in a traditional caucasian american house hold. As a person of both races i can honestly say that Thats very valid, this guys credentials show his true patriotism.


I'm glad there's someone around that can think in both black and white.:roll:
What a load of bull****.

[Lt. James Anderson]

Whats wrong with us commenting on his very vocal opinions?

Nothing worng with it either. But I got the impression that expressing one's opinion (whatever it might be) is somehow outrageous. You might not agree with his opinion, which is fine, but not agreeing with his right to voice his opinion is BS, imo.

[AGE-Ranger]

ADD isnt specified towards blacks.

I was going based on what you said here:

Its quite real, I was a so called ADD kid. And some of the things he mentioned were quite valid. He was simply stating that Children that grow up in black american house holds have different learning tactics then kids that grow up in a traditional caucasian american house hold.That somehow Wright was correct that black kids get accused of having ADD, just because their brains are different from white brains.


Nothing worng with it either. But I got the impression that expressing one's opinion (whatever it might be) is somehow outrageous. You might not agree with his opinion, which is fine, but not agreeing with his right to voice his opinion is BS, imo.

Who is doing that? I absolutely love that this guy is going around, showing his true self, the man that mentored Barack Obama.

[Firetxmi]

AGE, I think this is going over your head.

Have you ever heard the term right brain or left brain?

It is not that they have different brains, he is simply stating that they learn differently. Hell, my stepmom is right brained, yeah, its different from how I learn, I am right brain oriented. Is it hard to believe that someone who grows up with different cultural leanings might learn differently. Look at many of the Asian cultures (yes, even the ones here in the U.S.). Can you honestly tell me that they learn the exact same way that you do?

I think you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.

[gaijinsamurai]

...But what about someone like Barak Obama, who is half-African and half white?

In my opinion, these days, race is more about culture and experiences than about biology. My best friend is 3rd generation Japanese-American, and he has less in common with my Japanese wife than I do.

[AGE-Ranger]

AGE, I think this is going over your head.

Have you ever heard the term right brain or left brain?

It is not that they have different brains, he is simply stating that they learn differently. Hell, my stepmom is right brained, yeah, its different from how I learn, I am right brain oriented. Is it hard to believe that someone who grows up with different cultural leanings might learn differently. Look at many of the Asian cultures (yes, even the ones here in the U.S.). Can you honestly tell me that they learn the exact same way that you do?

I think you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.

Ah, I'm not smart enough to "get it"?

Its one thing to talk about right and left brain learning, but its another to start attributing it to race. Its very reminiscent of the bell curve by Charles Murry, who claimed IQ was based on race. The New York times said of The Bell Curve, "a scabrous piece of racial ****ography masquerading as serious scholarship"


...But what about someone like Barak Obama, who is half-African and half white?

In my opinion, these days, race is more about culture and experiences than about biology. My best friend is 3rd generation Japanese-American, and he has less in common with my Japanese wife than I do.

I think thats the way it is with most people, but there seems to be this element in this country that wants to keep racism alive. Thats what Obama's problem is. He looks and talks like a man who would be above race, yet we see more and more than its a central part of his upbringing.

[Firetxmi]

...But what about someone like Barak Obama, who is half-African and half white?

In my opinion, these days, race is more about culture and experiences than about biology. My best friend is 3rd generation Japanese-American, and he has less in common with my Japanese wife than I do.

I agree. What I am saying is that in some parts of African-American culture (particularly here in the south) black children are raised differently (not better or worse) and thus it leads to different learning styles. Just as many Jewish families raise their kids differently than Irish families, etc, etc.

[Chulo]

AGE, I think this is going over your head.

Have you ever heard the term right brain or left brain?

It is not that they have different brains, he is simply stating that they learn differently. Hell, my stepmom is right brained, yeah, its different from how I learn, I am right brain oriented. Is it hard to believe that someone who grows up with different cultural leanings might learn differently. Look at many of the Asian cultures (yes, even the ones here in the U.S.). Can you honestly tell me that they learn the exact same way that you do?

I think you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.
But he (Wright) is saying ALL black people in that context then- as AEG said
Can you imagine if a white pastor was out explaining to everyone how the black brain was different from all other human brains?
would be labeled a racist- i dont see how what Wright says is doing anything to help close the racial divide, rather hes making an effort to create a wall and prove that Blacks are different from Whites, for what ever reason he would have

[Firetxmi]

Its one thing to talk about right and left brain learning, but its another to start attributing it to race. Its very reminiscent of the bell curve by Charles Murry, who claimed IQ was based on race. The New York times said of TBC, "a scabrous piece of racial ****ography masquerading as serious scholarship"


So you learn the exact same way as an Arab child or an Asian child? Or maybe there are some differences between culture and learning?

[Lt. James Anderson]

In my opinion, these days, race is more about culture and experiences than about biology. My best friend is 3rd generation Japanese-American, and he has less in common with my Japanese wife than I do.

So if I was born and raised in China (3rd generation) that would make me Chinese?
Not really ...

[AGE-Ranger]

i dont see how what Wright says is doing anything to help close the racial divide, rather hes making an effort to create a wall and prove that Blacks are different from Whites, for what ever reason he would have

I'll paraphrase Wright in his speech today, "They aren't attacking me, they are attacking the black church!"

[SBL]

I agree. What I am saying is that in some parts of African-American culture (particularly here in the south) black children are raised differently (not better or worse) and thus it leads to different learning styles. Just as many Jewish families raise their kids differently than Irish families, etc, etc.

So are you saying they think differently, or that black brains actually function in a manner unique to everyone else on the planet?
There's a pretty significant difference.

[Firetxmi]

I agree Chulo, we are all individuals. But, culture does shape us. I grew up in a southern white family. I am sure I think differently than an Asian man from San Francisco.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule. Being human though means dealing with a lot of bell curves.

[Chulo]

I'll paraphrase Wright in his speech today, "They aren't attacking me, they are attacking the black church!"Yea i heard that in the news today - i didnt hear the whole speech "NOT a sermon IMHO" so cant comment on it yet, but i didnt know there was a different "Black" Theology

[Firetxmi]

So are you saying they think differently, or that black brains actually function in a manner unique to everyone else on the planet?

I am saying that biologically they are all the same, as we all are. But culturally ones "brain" (as in right brain or loeft brain) is trained to think according to how one was raised. White, black, asian, etc., etc. we all have different cultural leanings that affect how we learn, feel, act, and think.

[AGE-Ranger]

So you learn the exact same way as an Arab child or an Asian child? Or maybe there are some differences between culture and learning?

He didn't say culture, he clearly separated black and white. I'm not saying everyone learns the same way, but wright was defiantly making it more about race. We've have been told relentlessly, for the past few decades, that we're we're all essentially the same and any connecting of race and deficiencies is wrong!


“Africans have a different meter, and Africans have a different tonality,” he said. Europeans have seven tones, Africans have five. White people clap differently than black people.

Tonality and Tones?

:roll:

[Lt. James Anderson]

The New York times said of The Bell Curve, "a scabrous piece of racial ****ography masquerading as serious scholarship".

That sure means a lot since we all know that NY Times is peer reviewed journal of psychology.

[Chulo]

I agree Chulo, we are all individuals. But, culture does shape us. I grew up in a southern white family. I am sure I think differently than an Asian man from San Francisco.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule. Being human though means dealing with a lot of bell curves.
Culture shapes us, but does it shape our own physiology and physical attributes? If being black means your brain works different from a white brain- then the differences would not be a cultural difference but a racial/ maybe even species difference - Where does that kind of logic go to show that we are all the same no matter what the skin color if now skin color is just a physical visual representation of a different brain?

[California Joe]

The validity of right and left, and black and white, and ADHD versus whatever, can be debated ad nauseum. Bottom line is, Obama needs to appeal to this douchebag on a personal level to check his f*cking ego and his inflammatory racial ideas right now. Wright is committing political homicide. Because frankly, Rev. Wright is now forever linked with him. Anything and everything Rev Wright does at this point has political implications to Obamas campaign. He's Lee Atwaters wet dream.

[Commander Shepard]

I grew up in a southern white family. I am sure I think differently than an Asian man from San Francisco.


Culture has absolutely ****-all to do with how the human brain operates. Your opinions and values might be different, but your neuron activity does not reflect that.

The average African American's brain is the same organ as the average white American's brain, and this applies to the rest of this freaking globe. We are all of the same species, with variations from individual to individual, but not across ethnic groups.

Claiming otherwise is bull.

[Firetxmi]

When I said bell curve I mean the statistical curve, as in normal distribution. Never even knew there was a book called "The Bell Curve."

Example:

[Firetxmi]

Right Brain vs. Left Brain

Definition
This theory of the structure and functions of the mind suggests that the two different sides of the brain control two different "modes" of thinking. It also suggests that each of us prefers one mode over the other.

Discussion
Experimentation has shown that the two different sides, or hemispheres, of the brain are responsible for different manners of thinking. The following table illustrates the differences between left-brain and right-brain thinking:

Left Brain

Logical
Sequential
Rational
Analytical
Objective
Looks at parts

Right Brain

Random
Intuitive
Holistic
Synthesizing
Subjective
Looks at wholes

Most individuals have a distinct preference for one of these styles of thinking. Some, however, are more whole-brained and equally adept at both modes. In general, schools tend to favor left-brain modes of thinking, while downplaying the right-brain ones. Left-brain scholastic subjects focus on logical thinking, analysis, and accuracy. Right-brained subjects, on the other hand, focus on aesthetics, feeling, and creativity.

How Right-Brain vs. Left-Brain Thinking Impacts Learning
Curriculum--In order to be more "whole-brained" in their orientation, schools need to give equal weight to the arts, creativity, and the skills of imagination and synthesis.

Instruction--To foster a more whole-brained scholastic experience, teachers should use instruction techniques that connect with both sides of the brain. They can increase their classroom's right-brain learning activities by incorporating more patterning, metaphors, analogies, role playing, visuals, and movement into their reading, calculation, and analytical activities.

Assessment--For a more accurate whole-brained evaluation of student learning, educators must develop new forms of assessment that honor right-brained talents and skills.

Reading
Bernice McCarthy, The 4-MAT System: Teaching to Learning Styles with Right/Left Mode Techniques.

Link:http://www.funderstanding.com/right_left_brain.cfm

It is not an actual physiological function of the brain we are talking about. It is a theory on different ways of thinking. And yes, everyone can switch back and forth. I fear some don't even have a real grasp on the subject matter we are discussing.

[Lt. James Anderson]

Culture has absolutely ****-all to do with how the human brain operates. Your opinions and values might be different, but your neuron activity does not reflect that.

The average African American's brain is the same organ as the average white American's brain, and this applies to the rest of this freaking globe. We are all of the same species, with variations from individual to individual, but not across ethnic groups.

Claiming otherwise is bull.

And what researches you base your claim on? Might as well say that science is bull ...

A lot of that stuff needs more research but since researching psychology of race is not very popular these days, it might be a while until we have same serious research.

[Firetxmi]

The average African American's brain is the same organ as the average white American's brain, and this applies to the rest of this freaking globe. We are all of the same species, with variations from individual to individual, but not across ethnic groups.

Claiming otherwise is bull.

And if you read back, I never claimed otherwise.

[AGE-Ranger]

When I said bell curve I mean the statistical curve, as in normal distribution. Never even knew there was a book called "The Bell Curve."

Example:

Its widely regarded as racist rubbish.


Link:http://www.funderstanding.com/right_left_brain.cfm

It is not an actual physiological function of the brain we are talking about. It is a theory on different ways of thinking. And yes, everyone can switch back and forth. I fear some don't even have a real grasp on the subject matter we are discussing.

Yes, but what does this have to do with race? Why does Wright believe that drums and oral learning is unique to the black African people? You don't think there are white brains that learn better from music or repetition? Thats the problem, wright is making it a white, black thing when its not. I see what you're saying, but that isn't what wright said.

[Firetxmi]

Its widely regarded as racist rubbish.

All bell curves (normal distribution), or "The Bell Curve"?

[SBL]

All bell curves (normal distribution), or "The Bell Curve"?

The Book.

........

[California Joe]

It doesn't matter. He needs to shut up. Now.

W got elected cause people like the way he f*cks up common English words and they wanted to have a beer with him.

Nobody wants to elect a guy whose pastor is Natty Dredd and wants to kill all de white people.

[AGE-Ranger]

All bell curves (normal distribution), or "The Bell Curve"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve

controversial (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversial_book), best-selling 1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994) book by the late Harvard professor Richard J. Herrnstein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Herrnstein) and American Enterprise Institute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Enterprise_Institute) political scientist Charles Murray (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Murray_%28author%29). Its central point is that intelligence is a better predictor of many factors including financial income, job performance, unwed pregnancy, and crime than parents' socioeconomic status (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socioeconomic_status) or education level. Also, the book argued that those with high intelligence (the "cognitive elite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_elite)") are becoming separated from the general population of those with average and below-average intelligence, and that this was a dangerous social trend. Much of the controversy concerned Chapters 13 and 14, in which the authors wrote about the enduring racial differences in intelligence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence) and discuss implications of those differences. The authors were reported throughout the popular press as arguing that these IQ differences are genetic, although they state no position on the issue in the book, and write in the introduction to Chapter 13 that "The debate about whether and how much genes and environment have to do with ethnic differences remains unresolved."


Ergo, what Wright is saying sounds a lot like this crap.

[Chulo]

well the question people will be asking is that if Obama was a member of the church for over 20 years, saw him as a mentor and close friend, how much of Wright's racist beliefs are shared by Obama?

[2Sheds_Jackson]

I think that Hillary supporters - eager to remedy our long-standing racial inequities, would be wise to pay this nice Wright fella to come speak all over the country. Preferably where there are lots of undecided middle-class voters. His message needs to be heard so that the healing can begin. For the children.

[gobdav]

I think that Hillary supporters - eager to remedy our long-standing racial inequities, would be wise to pay this nice Wright fella to come speak all over the country. Preferably where there are lots of undecided middle-class voters. His message needs to be heard so that the healing can begin. For the children.


FOR THE CHILDREN!!! :hug:

And I thought it was "Ax" in ebonics?

[Albatross]

The guy is a racist. I say let him speak, hell I will give him money to keep talking. McCain will have it easy once it comes time to go head to head with Obama.

[Euroamerican]

The validity of right and left, and black and white, and ADHD versus whatever, can be debated ad nauseum. Bottom line is, Obama needs to appeal to this douchebag on a personal level to check his f*cking ego and his inflammatory racial ideas right now. Wright is committing political homicide. Because frankly, Rev. Wright is now forever linked with him. Anything and everything Rev Wright does at this point has political implications to Obamas campaign. He's Lee Atwaters wet dream.

From my own superficial level of study, I don't understand this guy. He's obviously smart and has an interesting and (from society's standards) a fruitful life. He's almost looking like he wants to damage Obama.

From Wikipedia:

From 1959 to 1961, Wright attended Virginia Union University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Union_University), in Richmond (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond%2C_Virginia). Inspired by President John F. Kennedy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy)'s 1961 challenge to "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country," Wright gave up his student deferment, left college and joined the United States Marine Corps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps) and became part of the 2nd Marine Division with the rank of private first class. In 1963, after two years of service, Wright then transferred to the United States Navy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy) and entered the Corpsman School at the Great Lakes Naval Training Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Lakes_Naval_Training_Center), where he graduated as valedictorian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valedictorian).[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright#cite_note-corin1-8) Having excelled in corpsman school, Wright was then trained as a cardiopulmonary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiopulmonary) technician at the National Naval Medical Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Naval_Medical_Center) in Bethesda, Maryland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethesda%2C_Maryland) where he graduated as salutatorian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salutatorian).[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright#cite_note-corin1-8) Wright was assigned as part of the medical team charged with care of President Lyndon B. Johnson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_B._Johnson) (see photo of Wright caring for Johnson after his 1966 surgery). Before leaving the position in 1967, the White House awarded Wright three letters of commendation.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright#cite_note-9)[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright#cite_note-historymbio-10)[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright#cite_note-howardubio-11)
In 1967 Wright enrolled at Howard University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_University) in Washington, D.C. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington%2C_D.C.), where he earned a bachelor's degree (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor%27s_degree) in 1968 and a master’s degree (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master%E2%80%99s_degree) in English in 1969. He also earned a master's degree (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master%27s_degree) from the University of Chicago Divinity School (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Chicago_Divinity_School).[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright#cite_note-corin1-8) Wright holds a Doctor of Ministry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Ministry) degree (1990) from the United Theological Seminary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Theological_Seminary) in Dayton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dayton%2C_Ohio), Ohio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio), where he studied under Samuel DeWitt Proctor (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Samuel_DeWitt_Proctor&action=edit&redlink=1), a mentor to Martin Luther King.[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright#cite_note-12)

[helomech]

The guy is an a_ssclown and does a sh1tty JFK impersonation too

[California Joe]

Call me crazy but when a guy associated closely with you is running for the Democratic nomination for President I would think it might be counterproductive to poke fun at JFK. Just a thought. Maybe we can ask his neice LaShondria Kennedy.

[Hollis]

Euro maybe it is a issue of believing your own propaganda. Talking yourself into a hole of your own design. A lot of demigods start out as reasonable and their speech addressing legitimate concerns. They keep extrapolating until their speech's are studies in reducto ad absurdum. They no longer address a mainstream audience, but more a cult crowd. The cult of the personality, where the personality is them. Rev. Wright probably needs to take a vacation from all of his polemic and get back in touch with regular people.

[gaijinsamurai]

So if I was born and raised in China (3rd generation) that would make me Chinese?
Not really ...

You would not be ethnic Chinese, but their culture would influence the way you think and act. A lot of it would depend on how much you integrated yourself into their society. Unlike Japanese-Americans, who have assymilated well into mainstream US society, the Chinese-American community segregates itself to a greater extent.

My grandfather was Cherokee, born in what was then "Indian Territory" before it was called Oklahoma. He married another Cherokee (my grandmother) in Texas, and they moved West. For all practical purposes, my father, aunts and uncles are White.

[WARPIG]

Euro maybe it is a issue of believing your own propaganda. Talking yourself into a hole of your own design. A lot of demigods start out as reasonable and their speech addressing legitimate concerns. They keep extrapolating until their speech's are studies in reducto ad absurdum. They no longer address a mainstream audience, but more a cult crowd. The cult of the personality, where the personality is them. Rev. Wright probably needs to take a vacation from all of his polemic and get back in touch with regular people.


He'd lose his celebrity standing. He's works the racist opportunism that seems to be popular among his church goers. You make many friends by telling them the truth. Tell them what they want to hear and your popularity will grow. It's not exclusive to Wright or the black community. It's a rather simple matter of fact.

I'm sure Rev. Wright has recieved more than his share of backlash now that his sermons have reached international audiences. Actually, the home grown audiences are likely to be sending him "pieces of their minds." I can't imagine how many slack jawed yokles have made their opinions known to the good Rev. The dozen or so white supremists left must have voice their opinion of him by now. I'm sure that little group will get some coverage as this drags on.

[Hollis]

WP like the expression, If you can not get recognition for doing good, then do bad. In this case it is money, power and position. I agree this tactic is not limited to anyone one group of people.

[gobdav]

Why the hell do all these racist black supremacists call themselves "Rev?"

[Euroamerican]

...... The cult of the personality, where the personality is them. Rev. Wright probably needs to take a vacation from all of his polemic and get back in touch with regular people.

I fear you are correct, Mr Hollis.

It could also be rivalry within the flock. I can understand being uncomfortable with that as well.

[Kak]

I just wish this guy would disappear, if this ends up losing Obama the election, if it hasn't already, I'm going to be pretty pissed.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Why the hell do all these racist black supremacists call themselves "Rev?"

IMO it's the same reason that lots of people do - it provides a refuge from criticism. They're able to cloak themselves in the legitimacy of the church and say/do things that would otherwise get them punched in the face.

[Chulo]

IMO it's the same reason that lots of people do - it provides a refuge from criticism. They're able to cloak themselves in the legitimacy of the church and say/do things that would otherwise get them punched in the face.
not like they dont get enough protection from being "Black" itself

[gobdav]

IMO it's the same reason that lots of people do - it provides a refuge from criticism. They're able to cloak themselves in the legitimacy of the church and say/do things that would otherwise get them punched in the face.


"Rev." or not, if he said the sort of things to me personally like he has to all Americans, he would be getting one of those punches. What's either sad or scary is that he has a lot of followers. (I know this is a stupid question..) Are people that easily manipulated?

[Chulo]

"Rev." or not, if he said the sort of things to me personally like he has to all Americans, he would be getting one of those punches. What's either sad or scary is that he has a lot of followers. (I know this is a stupid question..) Are people that easily manipulated?
You would have to ask Obama who has been a church member for the past 20 years, and sees him as a mentor

[SilentType]

That guy has lost his mind. It happens.

[JKD]

I haven't seen or heard any of the news, pundits, or spin today so I'm not sure what I'm supposed to think about the speech but I watched it live yesterday and it didn't seem that bad. I don't agree with a lot of what he said but I didn't see anything to get hysterical about.

But ultimately, who gives a ****. We might as well let John Hagee and Jeremiah Wright debate and decide the election that way.

[Parx400]

I dont care what color he is, I would never vote for him. All liberals are the same color inside, COMMIE RED. By the time fox news is done playing those clips people will think it was Obama saying it.

[ronnieraygun]

I dont care what color he is, I would never vote for him. All liberals are the same color inside, COMMIE RED. By the time fox news is done playing those clips people will think it was Obama saying it.

I'm pretty sure that's the intent - put enough of a doubt in people's minds and Obama's chances are done. I would talk more but I'm late for my Politburo meeting...

p-)

[szr]

Call me crazy but when a guy associated closely with you is running for the Democratic nomination for President I would think it might be counterproductive to poke fun at JFK. Just a thought. Maybe we can ask his neice LaShondria Kennedy.
The dude's just plain nuts. He's got a mental disorder and it has nothing to do with being left-v-right -brained. He's not rational, or he would have shut up a while ago for Obama's sake. He's thinking in his delusion that if he just keeps the rants coming the rest of us will eventually 'get it' and come to his side on things.

[Lambert58]

I just wish this guy would disappear, if this ends up losing Obama the election, if it hasn't already, I'm going to be pretty pissed.

I'll agree with you on that point: Obama needs to lose the election not because of his racist pastor, but because he's a screaming marxist.

[Chulo]

That guy has lost his mind. It happens.


The dude's just plain nuts. He's got a mental disorder and it has nothing to do with being left-v-right -brained. He's not rational, or he would have shut up a while ago for Obama's sake. He's thinking in his delusion that if he just keeps the rants coming the rest of us will eventually 'get it' and come to his side on things.
Why is he called "nuts" and "Crazy" and not racist for the views he holds? Say it like it is

[California Joe]

The guy can hold whatever view he wants on being a victim, God damning America, CIA AIDs conspiracies etc. I really don't give a fat rats ass. I'm just saying that if I was Barak Obama or anyone remotely associated with his campaign I would have realized a long time ago that this man is a walking clusterf*ck of a political timebomb and I would want him silenced immediately.

One would think that this man, as a mentor and former pastor of a serious candidate for President would be able to put aside his need to be an attention whore and realize that he is causing damage to any chances Obama has.

It f*cking boggles my mind.

[Mordecai]

...African-American community...



I am so sick and tired of people referring to their and other's nationality as a insert color/race/creed-American. It is ridiculous to say the least. A person is either an American or they are not, period. It has NOTHING to do with being proud of ones heritage. I am 1/2 Italian and 1/2 Israeli by heritage and proud of my heritage, but I am 100% American no ifs ands or buts and especially no hyphens.

Furthermore this "hyphenation" of ones nationality is nothing more than a ploy to further divide our nation along ethnic lines more so than they are at present. no wonder people shout about discrimination...they are doing it to themselves. Someones heritage makes no difference to me, what matters is ones allegiance to the nation.

When someone can sing me the African-American, Latin-American/Asian-American/etc National Anthem I will concede. Until then people are either an American or they are not.

"...ONE nation under God INDIVISIBLE with liberty and justice for all."

As for Jeremiah Wright, he is a racist, a hate monger, and a general purpose oxygen thief.

Crip

[szr]

Why is he called "nuts" and "Crazy" and not racist for the views he holds? Say it like it isRacist or not, it's not racism that keeps him from seeing that he's harming Obama--it's delusion. He could be the biggest racist in the world, but he'd still shut up and go into seclusion until November for Obama's sake if he weren't nuts.

[tbk107]

If you think this guy is bad for Obama wait until the general election when the Republican machine starts sifting through all of Obama's past relationships. Lets see so far we have Rev Wright, Rezko and William "I don't regret setting bombs... I feel we didn't do enough." Ayers. That's just with his friends in the Democrat's and the press digging; I can only imagine what the Republican's have lined up for him. Leave it to the Dem's to screw themselves out of a gift wrapped White House after George W.

[Euroamerican]

I think the bloodbath will only continue after the two Dems do their best to blow each other up. Unless they can unite all friendly-like, I think they are stuck.

Both have huge issues that the GOP will attack heartily.

[noname]

Anything and everything Rev Wright does at this point has political implications to Obamas campaign. He's Lee Atwaters wet dream.


LOL. I would venture as far to say he is also the hildabeasts wet dream (something that makes me even shudder and vomit at the thought) right now.

[noname]

The guy can hold whatever view he wants on being a victim, God damning America, CIA AIDs conspiracies etc. I really don't give a fat rats ass. I'm just saying that if I was Barak Obama or anyone remotely associated with his campaign I would have realized a long time ago that this man is a walking clusterf*ck of a political timebomb and I would want him silenced immediately.


The first amendment still exists so I wholeheartedly appreciate the fact that reverend wright says what he pleases.

[SBL]

The guy can hold whatever view he wants on being a victim, God damning America, CIA AIDs conspiracies etc. I really don't give a fat rats ass. I'm just saying that if I was Barak Obama or anyone remotely associated with his campaign I would have realized a long time ago that this man is a walking clusterf*ck of a political timebomb and I would want him silenced immediately.

One would think that this man, as a mentor and former pastor of a serious candidate for President would be able to put aside his need to be an attention whore and realize that he is causing damage to any chances Obama has.

It f*cking boggles my mind.

It's kind of my impression that the guy is not as nearly as interested in lending support to the Obama campaign as he is in cementing his position as the leader of his own brand of truth. Playing the role of the apolitical guru to his flock.

[The Balkan]

Wow this guy must be determined to ruin Obama's chances lmao.

Holding a grudge maybe over Obama condemning his past comments.

Either that or he's paid off by Hillary :)

[Laworkerbee]

http://elections.foxnews.com/files/2008/03/wright_house4.jpg
The 1.6 million four- bedroom, 10,000-plus square foot home that Trinity United Church of Christ is building for Reverend Jeremiah Wright in an all white community, along with a 10 million dollar line of credit. :|

I'm still voting for either Obama or McCain.

[Nano]

Just finished watching the linked video. I get the feeling the guy is far more interested in his own views than he is concerned for the impact that it might have on Obama's campaign. He is going to cash in on it with a book.

[Hot Lips]

Nice house. I'd like to see how the people that follow him are living (other than Obama). I've never understood people that give their hard earned income to guys like this.

[Hot Lips]

Just finished watching the linked video. I get the feeling the guy is far more interested in his own views than he is concerned for the impact that it might have on Obama's campaign. He is going to cash in on it with a book.

Obama winning won't help him. Clearly the guy makes money off racial tension. An Obama win takes some power away from his message.

[Nano]

Obama winning won't help him. Clearly the guy makes money off racial tension. An Obama win takes some power away from his message.

I think he has wisely hedged his investment. His whole "change" initiative part of his speech at the end makes it quite clear to me he intends to be in the spotlight for a very long time. He can definitely make money either way. I also think the man is supremely naive about the religious world around him or just wants to whitewash over the fact of it all while he gets paid for services rendered.

[throwback]

1) I saw Rev. Wright's James Brown impersonation at the Natl' Press Club on CNN this morning. Amazing.

2) NC Gov. Mike Easly just endorsed HRC this afternooon.

Reverend, keep it coming!

[Bia]

LOL @ race issues.



:P

[Doggonit55]

He speaks well, and he is funny, although is a bit too much of a showman. I suppose he does his whole shtick partly for the profits, and looking at the house of his, damn he sure does well. I'm not sure if he is simply misguided or a hippo-crater (which makes him an illegalist) or just a guy out for the buck no matter what, or any mix of those, but he is entertaining enough and trivial enough for me not too take him too seriously. I think there is too much hype around this guy.

[Red]

Just finished watching the linked video. I get the feeling the guy is far more interested in his own views than he is concerned for the impact that it might have on Obama's campaign. He is going to cash in on it with a book.
I like your avatar. L is the mainest man.

[Chulo]

He speaks well, and he is funny, although is a bit too much of a showman. I suppose he does his whole shtick partly for the profits, and looking at the house of his, damn he sure does well. I'm not sure if he is simply misguided or a hippo-crater (which makes him an illegalist) or just a guy out for the buck no matter what, or any mix of those, but he is entertaining enough and trivial enough for me not too take him too seriously. I think there is too much hype around this guy.
He is VERY close to Obama and there is no way someone can say that just because they know each other doesn't mean much. Since we dont know as much about Obama but he is very close to Wright and is seen as his spiritual mentor, pastor and personal friend association goes deep, and is enough to show some of the beliefs and values Obama holds. Does Obama hold the same views is the question people are asking.

[Doggonit55]

He is VERY close to Obama and there is no way someone can say that just because they know each other doesn't mean much. Since we dont know as much about Obama but he is very close to Wright and is seen as his spiritual mentor, pastor and personal friend association goes deep, and is enough to show some of the beliefs and values Obama holds. Does Obama hold the same views is the question people are asking.

I hope these people understand that this guy is his pastor, not his spiritual mentor. I'm not saying that he cannot possibly be that as well, but for all we know right now, he's just the pastor.

Look, I'm not going to defend this guy, or Obama (whom I find to be a corrupt crook), but I still think people are making too much of this. This guy is not the Palpatine to Obama's Vader.

[Chulo]

I hope these people understand that this guy is his pastor, not his spiritual mentor. I'm not saying that he cannot possibly be that as well, but for all we know right now, he's just the pastor.

Look, I'm not going to defend this guy, or Obama (whom I find to be a corrupt crook), but I still think people are making too much of this. This guy is not the Palpatine to Obama's Vader.LOL.. starwars .. good analogy -
but 20 years his Church and a personal friendship and the development of his meta-narrative seems to be more than just a pastor to me

Barack Obama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama), a candidate for the Democratic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_%28United_States%29) nomination for President, first met Wright and joined his church in the 1980s, while he was working as a community organizer in Chicago before attending Harvard Law School (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_Law_School).[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright#cite_note-brachear1-22) Obama and his wife, Michelle, were later married by Wright, and both their children were baptized by him.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright#cite_note-obama1-3) The title of Obama's memoir, The Audacity of Hope (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Audacity_of_Hope), was inspired by one of Wright's sermons[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright#cite_note-brachear1-22) and he credits Wright with strengthening his faith.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright#cite_note-obama1-3)

its wiki i know, but its all cited

[gobdav]

wow, just watched the CNN bit about him, and the comments made were, "although he is contriversial, he was very entertaining today." And that's just about it.....amazing how a blatant racist can get so much air time.

(sry for misspellings, too lazy to spell check:))

[Doggonit55]

LOL.. starwars .. good analogy -
but 20 years his Church and a personal friendship and the development of his meta-narrative seems to be more than just a pastor to me

its wiki i know, but its all cited

Hmm... fair enough, he's essentially part of the family and an influence on Obama. I take back what I said. He is Palpatine!

[gobdav]

He speaks well, and he is funny, although is a bit too much of a showman. I suppose he does his whole shtick partly for the profits, and looking at the house of his, damn he sure does well. I'm not sure if he is simply misguided or a hippo-crater (which makes him an illegalist) or just a guy out for the buck no matter what, or any mix of those, but he is entertaining enough and trivial enough for me not too take him too seriously. I think there is too much hype around this guy.

how does he speak well? Every sound byte I've heard has him either yelling at the top of his lungs about how bad the white man is, or he's either speaking softly about how America is keeping his millionaire a$$ down. America, and his "Black community" espically, does not need another racist like him dividing the country. I think there's a problem with many smart people out there when they DON'T take him seriously, because there are many idiots out there who do and follow him. Obviously he's made quite a life for himself from their donations.

[WARPIG]

how does he speak well? Every sound byte I've heard has him either yelling at the top of his lungs about how bad the white man is, or he's either speaking softly about how America is keeping his millionaire a$$ down. America, and his "Black community" espically, does not need another racist like him dividing the country. I think there's a problem with many smart people out there when they DON'T take him seriously, because there are many idiots out there who do and follow him. Obviously he's made quite a life for himself from their donations.
He's charismatic. He says what his audience wants to hear. He's witty, enthusiastic, and good at what he does. Too bad his vandage on things is totally screwed up. He's got the chops, the education, and the background to really be a big player. He's now a big wet blanket on Obama's career.

[Doggonit55]

how does he speak well? Every sound byte I've heard has him either yelling at the top of his lungs about how bad the white man is, or he's either speaking softly about how America is keeping his millionaire a$$ down.

He may well be a crook, and dubious at best, but you cannot say he doesn't speak well. Since you admit having only heard the popular "sound byte" or three, you really have no basis for argument. I suggest you watch some of the longer, more extensive speeches and interviews featuring him which are readily available on youtube. As WARPIG so eloquently put it, he's very charismatic and he is good at what he does.

[Createdeemcee]

The man has 3X the education that we have here, he did say some things yes. But not directly from himself. He quotes everyone he uses has refrences from others. He's all about unity. But he is firebrand. Hes a great speaker. I love how everyone can pick out negatives of what people say, and then pre-judge from there. You only heard what you wanted to for those who are posting negative. Listen to the whole speech then judge. Like he said how many years did Cheney serve in the armed forces.

Hes the man, I wish i could go to his church. Hes not a divider but a uniter, but Im glad he exposed peoples true feelings. Shows that we havent made enough progress as living together as races. Hell looking at vids of the congregation i seen every race in the rainbow.

[Doggonit55]

I assume that was said tongue-in-cheek, Createdeemcee??? Because... um... I sure got that vibe. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Createdeemcee]

Im part African American, I grew up in mostly Black churches. I know that he is a man of unity, yes he says things in a way to flair people up but thats what he does. He hits the touchy issues that need to be addressed. George bush didnt have any dialect what so ever with the NAACP since his presidency, he has bee trying know since the door is going to hit him in the butt, but too little too late. George was a seperating leader who has divided due to his lack of hearing concearns of Americas black leaders.

[gobdav]

Im part African American, I grew up in mostly Black churches. I know that he is a man of unity, yes he says things in a way to flair people up but thats what he does. He hits the touchy issues that need to be addressed. George bush didnt have any dialect what so ever with the NAACP since his presidency, he has bee trying know since the door is going to hit him in the butt, but too little too late. George was a seperating leader who has divided due to his lack of hearing concearns of Americas black leaders.


So you think that people like the Wright guy and al sharpton don't do their part to divide races by their flamatory talk?

[Doggonit55]

So you think that people like the Wright guy and al sharpton don't do their part to divide races by their flamatory talk?

Woah, woah, woah!!! No you didn't!

Don't even dare to compare Wright with Sharpton. I would very much like to have dinner with Wright and all the entertaining discussion that would come with it and certainly follow it. Al Sharpton on the other hand is a rabid biggot who needs to get punched in the face more often.

Wright isn't truly inflamatory. He does push people's buttons but I think people need to grow thicker skin and laugh at/with him if nothing else. People who really get their panties in a bunch over him haven't really seen or heard what he says and how he says it.

The same however goes for people who get all miffed when some white politician, religious leader, or the like says something even remotely un-PC and then gets called a racist, etc. Please... let's all take a deep breath, learn to take some criticism and deal with confrontations like mature, educated people. This era of playing the victim needs to be stopped.

[California Joe]

Im part African American, I grew up in mostly Black churches. I know that he is a man of unity, yes he says things in a way to flair people up but thats what he does. He hits the touchy issues that need to be addressed. George bush didnt have any dialect what so ever with the NAACP since his presidency, he has bee trying know since the door is going to hit him in the butt, but too little too late. George was a seperating leader who has divided due to his lack of hearing concearns of Americas black leaders.

He sure doesn't make me want to "unite" with him. Who elected him a "Black leader"? I've read on here many times that black people are not some monolithic voting block like the Borg. That they vote on issues just like any other Americans. I believe that. I also believe that, like most Americans they don't need to be told what someone means when he says "God Damn America". If they think that's somehow acceptable then they like Rev Wright should get the f*ck out. Poor victim living there in his 1.6 million dollar house.

The guy is a self important asshole. I don't care how many languages he speaks, the only word he's concerned with is "ME". It's all about him.

[Createdeemcee]

So you think that people like the Wright guy and al sharpton don't do their part to divide races by their flamatory talk?


haha no, you guys are like sharks at a blood bath. I said nothing about al sharpton. This guy is night and day compared to him. This guy is the truth speaker who isnt afraid to speak his mind. You heard a snippet cali. Listen to the whole sermon. And it will explain itself. He's not crying about his life style, but the life style of Black Americans and how they are judged in society and how their norms are looked down upon by other communities in our society.

[WARPIG]

See.. Now this is going to get me ranting. First, no matter how educated, experienced, or polished Rev. Wright, it doesn’t automatically give him credibility. He's taken all of his skills and knowledge and turned it into zealotry. Creatdemcee is correct saying that it's important to take Wright's whole life work into account when it comes to making an opinion. Creatdemcee needs to take his own advice. You can't just dismiss the negative remarks he's made just because you agree with the rest of his dialogue. Further, as far as Rev Wright being a "uniter." I'm sort of at a loss for what you mean. Is it unity he champions when you have to explain that you are black so you "get" him? Is it unity to be the leader of a "black" church? How much unity motivates being the champion of black culture while excluding or blaming the rest of America? The fact that we label any of his "works" black just goes to show he's working to separate people. Guess what, no matter how much more CREDIBLE he seems compared to Al Sharpton or similar characters... He's no better. If all that influence ends up simply "uniting" blacks against everyone else..then this false "outrage" simply doesn't play.
Bottom line. Rev. Wright has all the ability to actually "unite" people, but instead, is just another character that perpetuates and exploits cultural controversy.

[joe mama]

haha no, you guys are like sharks at a blood bath. I said nothing about al sharpton. This guy is night and day compared to him. This guy is the truth speaker who isnt afraid to speak his mind. You heard a snippet cali. Listen to the whole sermon. And it will explain itself. He's not crying about his life style, but the life style of Black Americans and how they are judged in society and how their norms are looked down upon by other communities in our society.

Where's Dom to come in and point out how there is no "life style of Black Americans" and the idea of "their norms" is crazy as there are blacks in every level of society with as wide a mix of experiences and viewpoints as whites and browns and yellows and and and...

[Doggonit55]

Where's Dom to come in and point out how there is no "life style of Black Americans" and the idea of "their norms" is crazy as there are blacks in every level of society with as wide a mix of experiences and viewpoints as whites and browns and yellows and and and...

Well said, well said. All that segregationist lunatic talk has to stop.

[hank]

One of his points is that when white people say unity they mean "be like us" (white people). And he says no, black people are black and they do some things differently but they shouldn't change to be just like white people simply because white people want them to or to gain acceptance with white people.

I'm not saying I agree with that but that is one of the core principles of these speeches he's making that are now "news." And there is nothing shocking about that concept. Bill Cosby, Richard Pryor, and Eddie Murphy have made a ton of money saying that stuff and they called it comedy.

That is one of the reasons this whole debate is interesting to me. Nothing he's said is contraversial to black church congregations because they hear it every week. Its just the first time a lot of white people have heard this talk. Why? Because most white people just don't pay attention to this issue. I'm the most guilty. I never think about this stuff. And many who do pay attention dismiss this concept as devisive or lacking in merit.

But understand this. If he's making these speeches it means there are followers that believe like he does. Dismissing it as devisive or unmeritorious is a mistake IMO. The fact is this is an issue in our country that we've not dealt with or have not dealt with enough. We will have to at some point. If Obama's campaign is the precipitator for that (even unwittingly) then he's done something constructive.

Even if you think the Rev. is crazy and I'm not expressing an opinion on that either way.

And I don't buy the concept that Obama necessarily agrees with everything Wright says just because he's a churchgoer. I hear stuff at my Church every week that I don't like and/or don't agree with but I continue to go for my own reasons. And Obama is probably the same (as he has claimed). The fact is this guy is hurting Obama but if we were all honest with ourselves we'd recognize that our pastor does not speak for us on every issue just like Wright does not speak for Obama on every issue.

hank

[Merfeller]

I don't care for talk about "norms" and "lifestyles" when it comes to ethnic groups. There's no such thing because no group is static. The whole compartmentalizing and hyphenating of the country has gone way too far. At this point, the whole Obama/Wright mess is transcending the political sphere. Wright's latest appearances are directly affecting race relations in the US. Never mind the damn presidential race for a minute. We're talking big picture here. And now Sharpton is opening his pie hole, criticizing Wright. It's an egomaniacal media frenzy and it will hurt our society. I don't know if an outright condemnation of Wright on Obama's part would have silenced that lunatic, but it would have helped. Instead, Obama urged people to view Wright's comments in their "proper context" and now he looks like a fool because of it.

[Chulo]

One of his points is that when white people say unity they mean "be like us" (white people). And he says no, black people are black and they do some things differently but they shouldn't change to be just like white people simply because white people want them to or to gain acceptance with white people.

Why is it made into an issue mainly between American Whites and American Blacks - while there are other people groups in the United states and not to mention the rest of the world. It just seems like there is a big issue on being treated different then at the same time wanting to be different.

[helomech]

This moron is all over the tv now-perfect publicity for him;black reverends or preachers whatever they prefer to be referred as,black educators and authors all talking about what this guy is doing for the 'black church',blah,blah,blah........this guy is no better than Al Sharpton,Jesse Jackson and Louis Farrakhan,and that idiot Soledad Obrian from CNN going on and on about what a great whatever he purports himself to be,she should've just dropped to her knees right then and there

Ok,that was my rant and it looks I said absolutely nothing,I go now

[hank]

Why is it made into an issue mainly between American Whites and American Blacks - while there are other people groups in the United states and not to mention the rest of the world. It just seems like there is a big issue on being treated different then at the same time wanting to be different.

That is true, but this country primarily enslaved Africans hence the primacy of their discontent.

I'm not saying I agree/disagree with any of this, just pointing out that conceptually Wright's comments are neither novel nor controversial except for a change in the audience listening to them.

hank

[Laworkerbee]

I saw Chris Rock this past Thursday who put Reverend Wrights comments into context for me

"Of course Reverend Wright's an angry 75-year-old black man. All 75-year-old black men are angry."

:)

Hank that was a great post on the previous page.

[Lambert58]

I saw Chris Rock this past Thursday who put Reverend Wrights comments into context for me

"Of course Reverend Wright's an angry 75-year-old black man. All 75-year-old black men are angry."

:)

Hank that was a great post on the previous page.

I think LAworkerbee's avatar pretty much sums up Mr. Wright.

[hank]

I saw Chris Rock this past Thursday who put Reverend Wrights comments into context for me

"Of course Reverend Wright's an angry 75-year-old black man. All 75-year-old black men are angry."

:)

Hank that was a great post on the previous page.

Thanks LAWB. My law partner says all the time that its a generational thing. He says you just have to understand that older black people are still pissed about what has happened in the past. Can you blame them? Its hard to move on from a lot of what has happened.

Think about it. White people lump black people together. We just do. I do it all the time unwittingly. Then, when "they" blame white people as a group for a lot of what has happened, we get mad at "them." Its ironic.

I know this. Whoever ends up being President, talking about this issue is better than not.

hank

[AGE-Ranger]

That is true, but this country primarily enslaved Africans hence the primacy of their discontent.


hank

Actually, Mexico/South America had a much larger African slave population. Though they did end it sooner.


White people lump black people together. We just do. I do it all the time unwittingly.

...and you're lumping all white people together. Just because thats the way you think, doesn't mean we all do.

The fact of the matter is though, ALL human beings have prejudices of other human beings. Its not a white problem, nor a black problem. Its a human problem.

[hank]

Actually, Mexico/South America had a much larger African slave population. Though they did end it sooner.

Do you read English? I didn't say we enslaved more/less than any otehr country. I said we mostly enslaved Africans. Meaning most of our slaves were African American. There is a difference. And it leads to my point. African Americans who are descendents of slaves harbor animosity because it was their ancestors who were enslaved. Regardless of whether we had the most slaves, the fact is most slaves in this country were African.

I haven't posted in this thread much because when I see posts like this I realize very few here are capable of thoughtful debate and/or conversation.

hank

[hank]

...and you're lumping all white people together. Just because thats the way you think, doesn't mean we all do.

The fact of the matter is though, ALL human beings have prejudices of other human beings. Its not a white problem, nor a black problem. Its a human problem.

So you can honestly say you've never said to your self "black people are so . . . ."

hank

[Chulo]

That is true, but this country primarily enslaved Africans hence the primacy of their discontent.

I'm not saying I agree/disagree with any of this, just pointing out that conceptually Wright's comments are neither novel nor controversial except for a change in the audience listening to them.

hank
im thinking more about the audience that listens to him. Slavery = Bad, and i agree with that, but it was practiced- all over the world- my people have been having issues with it and still do for the past 3 to 4 thousand years- what makes the American Black so special? Im not racist, but have a hard time understanding why you would fight so hard to be the same, yet make an effort to be different, and then get outraged if they think they are treated different because it is solely on their ethnic background and ignore other factors that most probably come into play.

[Lambert58]

Do you read English? I didn't say we enslaved more/less than any otehr country. I said we mostly enslaved Africans. Meaning most of our slaves were African American. There is a difference. And it leads to my point. African Americans who are descendents of slaves harbor animosity because it was their ancestors who were enslaved. Regardless of whether we had the most slaves, the fact is most slaves in this country were African.

I haven't posted in this thread much because when I see posts like this I realize very few here are capable of thoughtful debate and/or conversation.

hank


The blanket insult of the MP.net posters is WIN! :bash:

[Chulo]

Ok. well this thread and discussion is going south fast.. atleast it lasted over a 100 post

[hank]

im thinking more about the audience that listens to him. Slavery = Bad, and i agree with that, but it was practiced- all over the world- my people have been having issues with it and still do for the past 3 to 4 thousand years- what makes the American Black so special? Im not racist, but have a hard time understanding why you would fight so hard to be the same, yet make an effort to be different, and then get outraged if they think they are treated different because it is solely on their ethnic background and ignore other factors that most probably come into play.

I think its very hard to understand as well. But my inability to understand it doesn't mean its not real. I've never walked in those shoes.

But I'm not disagreeing with you at all. Its a complex issue with no easy answers. Those who say Wright is an idiot with no point are being overly simplistic IMO. Trying to understand his point even if you disagree or can't comprehend it is a worthwhile endeavor.

Let's not forget that it hasn't been that long ago that blacks were openly lynched in the South. Its a raw issue still for Wright's generation. Time will heal as it always does. But talking about it before its healed is a good thing. Even if the prevailing sentiment is that Wright is an idiot. At least we know there needs to be more work on this issue.

hank

[hank]

The blanket insult of the MP.net posters is WIN! :bash:

You are only included in the insult if your reading comprehension level is the same as AGE-Ranger. With that in mind I'll let you decide whether to take my comment as an insult. It certainly wasn't aimed at you but if it hit the mark then so be it.

The fact that many pm.net geniuses don't read or don't understand complex issues can hardly be news to you. Its rampant around here. Ande frankly always has been.

hank

[Laworkerbee]

Let's not forget that it hasn't been that long ago that blacks were openly lynched in the South. Its a raw issue still for Wright's generation.

This issue is being completely over looked by the majority of Americans, I'm waiting for someone to tell Reverend Wright and Black Americans in general to "get over it".

Such insensitivity would not surprise me in the slightest.

[bl00k]

I think Rev. Wright said it all when he said the following:

Reminded that some critics have said his sermons are "unpatriotic," Wright told the audience that he is a former service member. He served six years in the Marine Corps and Navy.

"Does that make me patriotic?" he asked. "How many years did Cheney serve?"
rofl

[gobdav]

For all those out there who wish to listen....I'm sorry. I'm sorry for being white. I didn't know my skin color would lump me in with those who enslaved Africians hundreds of years ago and lynched them in the 60's. I only wish that those who judge me, judge me by the content of my character, not the color of my skin..... Again....sorry....

[hank]

This issue is being completely over looked by the majority of Americans, I'm waiting for someone to tell Reverend Wright and Black Americans in general to "get over it".

Such insensitivity would not surprise me in the slightest.

This is slightly off topic. But it highlights your point I think.

I run at the gym every morning between 6 and 7. And when I do I watch the History channel a lot. A few weeks ago there was a show about the real story of Mississippi Burning. During the show they interviewed an old FBI guy who had some intersting stuff to say. While the FBI was searching for the 2 white kids and the black kid that were killed they found a lot of dead bodies. He said in the search of rivers/lakes/ditches they found at least 9 bodies of young black males that were more than likely killed for being part of the get out the vote movement. And their deaths went unreported. And he says there were more that were undocumented but IIRC there were 9 documented cases. Then a historian commented and said that the involvement of white college students in the movement was the impetus for national media coverage. That shocked me. And then I thought about it and it makes sense. This country knew for years that blacks were persecuted in the South and did nothing. But the boys in MS kill a Jewish kid from Ohio and we put a stop to it. When I think about that now it makes me mad but its fleeting. I can move on and not think about it. But, if I were black and living in the South in the 60's I think that would make me much more upset. Only the death of a white kid prompted LBJ to send the FBI. But I'd never thought about that. Why? Its not a primary issue for me like it would be for men of Wright's generation. Its an injustice but its not my injustice - either for generational or racial issues. But I can identify with that sense of injustice even if I disagree with Wright's comments in general.

I guess that in some way sums up the problem. I can't really understand how Wright feels because I didn't go through the experience of the 60's. But I can try, and I can be understanding of his outrage even if I don't personally harbor it. And I can recognize that even if I'm not an overt racist that his outrage and sense of injustice may cause him to view me as one or with distrust. I don't like it and I don't agree that today lots of whites are overt racists (of course there are some) but I certainly can understand the sentiment.

Its just not a simple issue. And to try and make it one just overlooks the lessons we can and must learn from all that has happened. And that is a shame IMO. Instead of hating Wright for his comments, try to understand his outrage. Even if you can't, trying to will in some way help solve the problem I think.

hank

[Laworkerbee]

For all those out there who wish to listen....I'm sorry. I'm sorry for being white. I didn't know my skin color would lump me in with those who enslaved Africians hundreds of years ago and lynched them in the 60's. I only wish that those who judge me, judge me by the content of my character, not the color of my skin..... Again....sorry....

Get over yourself, stop boohooing and try seeing it from another persons shoes for once.

[Doggonit55]

For all those out there who wish to listen....I'm sorry. I'm sorry for being white. I didn't know my skin color would lump me in with those who enslaved Africians hundreds of years ago and lynched them in the 60's. I only wish that those who judge me, judge me by the content of my character, not the color of my skin..... Again....sorry....

I too apologize for my whiteness, despite the fact that I am not American by birth, not are any of my parents or grandparents. It's hard being white in America today. Apparently our very existence is a sign of racism and past wrongs.

[California Joe]

He needs to get over it.










p-)


I refuse to believe that this guy has anything left to be angry about. F*ck him. So maybe he should kick back and relax in his bigass house and quit acting like he was whipped in a cotton field. I'm sure some of my ancestors starved to death in a potato famine somewhere too but I'm not burning Union Jacks. So he served more than Cheney, gee that was tough. That's like saying that you can outrun a special Olympian.

What I can't figure is how big his ego has to be or his tunnel vision so narrow that he can't comprehend that he is damaging the first very valid shot that an African American has ever had to be the President of the United States. Would his world not be better if Obama won and implemented all of this glorious "change" he keeps talking about?

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

George Foreman needs to run for president.

[Laworkerbee]

Valid point.

What excited me about Obama in the first place was his break from the Jessie Jacksons and Al Sharptons of the past with their racial identity politics, I swear the good Reverend Wright is sabotaging Obama because he knows once America has a Black president race hustling is going to be a dead end gig.

[hank]

What I can't figure is how big his ego has to be or his tunnel vision so narrow that he can't comprehend that he is damaging the first very valid shot that an African American has ever had to be the President of the United States. Would his world not be better if Obama won and implemented all of this glorious "change" he keeps talking about?

He had good quote in today's paper about this. He said basically that he answers to a higher power (God) and that he'd be forgetting that if he kepy quiet just to get a politician in the WH. I'm not sure I buy that but it was his response nonetheless. He also expressed doubt that any "politician" will effect the "change" he calls for, even Obama. His comments last night really distance him from Obama which might be part of the plan.

Just remember one thing about the "past is the past" argument. People who are Wright's age actually knew the people who died in the 60's. I'd imagine you'd feel different about relatives who dies in the potato famine if that relative was your father or next door neighbor. Remember also that dying from famine is pretty far removed from the manner in which most racially motivated killings happened in the 1960's. I'm not minimizing the famine deaths or saying there weren't sinister intentions involved in the famine. But it seems to me that having someone you know get lynched might be a big deal that made "forgive and forget" hollow words indeed.

hank

[Doggonit55]

Time for a funny and totally off-topic picture to ease tensions!

http://blogfile.paran.com/BLOG_808653/200803/1205393800_57.jpg

[hank]

I swear the good Reverend Wright is sabotaging Obama because he knows once America has a Black president race hustling is going to be a dead end gig.

I hope you are wrong but I've wondered about that as well. Here is a link to that article I talked about. If he's honest in this article I don't think the reason is the one you mentioned.


WASHINGTON — Barack Obama's backers say the Rev. Jeremiah Wright has resurfaced at precisely the wrong time — trumpeting his controversial racial and political views to reporters just as Obama is struggling to win over skeptical white voters.

After weeks of maintaining a low profile, Wright cheerfully jousted with members of the National Press Club, much to the chagrin of Obama aides, who believe the pastor is scuttling the Democratic presidential candidate's chances of reaching out to blue-collar whites.

"It isn't helpful," said Obama's top strategist, David Axelrod, Monday. "It's unfortunate. ... It's a needless distraction."

Wright, who says he's embarked on a weeklong media blitz to defend the honor of the "black church," shrugged off Obama's speech in March that criticized the pastor as divisive and out-of-touch.

"If Senator Obama did not say what he said, he would not ever get elected," said the 66-year-old Philadelphia native. "Politicians say what they say and do what they do based on electability, based on sound bites, based on polls. ... I do what pastors do; he does what politicians do.

"I'm not running for office, but I am open to being vice president," he added as the crowd, packed with his supporters, including writer Cornel West, a professor of religion and African American studies at Princeton University, erupted in laughter.

Wright didn't back away from controversies gleaned from his sermons: suggesting U.S. "terrorism" abroad helped lead to the Sept. 11 attacks, arguing that the U.S. government may have played a role in spreading AIDS to blacks and reiterating his admiration for Louis Farrakhan, calling the Nation of Islam head one of the most important leaders in the last century.

Obama, speaking later in Wilmington, N.C., said Wright's views "offend" many people and don't reflect his own.

Wright's animated, provocative and sometimes comic 90-minute appearance at the Press Club is likely to raise more questions than it answered. "I don't know why he's doing this to his friend ... he's seriously hurting Obama," said Stu Rothenberg, an independent political analyst based in Washington.

"I can only assume that Jeremiah Wright's top agenda is helping Jeremiah Wright," he added. "It's already done the damage. It's something for those older white working-class downscale people to latch onto in voting against Obama."

Wright, Obama's Chicago pastor for about 20 years, seemed intent on speaking his mind, even if it meant offering an unpopular theory about the 2001 attacks, one denounced by Obama.

"You cannot do terrorism on other people and expect it not to come back on you; those are biblical principles," said Wright, who bounced around the dais of the usually sedate National Press Club, smiling, high-fiving supporters and offering the audience a salute when he was asked to defend his patriotism.

"I served six years in the military — does that make me patriotic? How many years did Cheney serve?" said Wright, a former Marine. Republicans have said Wright's connection to Obama will be a major issue in November if Obama is the nominee. The North Carolina GOP has already cut a TV ad linking the Illinois senator to his former pastor over the objections of Sen. John McCain.

(EDITORS: STORY CAN END HERE)

Wright, who stepped down as head of the 8,000-member Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, is known for his fiery sermons, which have been widely viewed on YouTube. In 2003, he told his congregation "God bless America ... No! ... God damn America ... for killing innocent people ... for treating her citizens as less than human."

Monday, he clarified the remarks, saying he was referring to the U.S. government and not the American people.

A handful of protesters, several from a Jewish group, braved the rain outside the event to criticize Wright's longtime friendship with Farrakhan, who has made disparaging remarks about Israel.

"He said Zionism, not Judaism, was a gutter religion," Wright added, referring to Farrakhan. "He is one of the most important voices in the 20th or 21st centuries."

http://www.ajc.com/living/content/news/stories/2008/04/29/CAMPAIGN_WRIGHT.html

hank

[California Joe]

To me his behavior is actually the only interesting part of this.

Yes, I expect Baptist Preachers to be all "Hellfire and Brimstone".
Yes, I expect politicians to say and do nearly anything to get elected.
Yes, I expect the Republicans to bugger Obama royally if he gets the nomination when he goes against McCain.

But f*ck me if I'm going to be called a racist for not drinking the Koolaid or if I demand that Obama explain how he actually plans to do "change" anything if elected, or vote for someone else based on his lack of experience or even personal preferrence...

Edit: Hank, you know I'm mostly stirring the pot here...and I agree that there are still people alive that have witnessed all of the ills of our society in the past but wouldn't you think a Reverend would be someone in the forefront of healing and not perpetuating the hurt and pain? Because things are better. How much better, is up for debate but they are indeed better. Rev Wright himself is proof of that.

[AGE-Ranger]

You are only included in the insult if your reading comprehension level is the same as AGE-Ranger.

I think it was more your bad grammar, than my reading comprehension. Why would we have anything other than Africans slaves? It was the African slave trade!




I guess that in some way sums up the problem. I can't really understand how Wright feels because I didn't go through the experience of the 60's. But I can try, and I can be understanding of his outrage even if I don't personally harbor it. And I can recognize that even if I'm not an overt racist that his outrage and sense of injustice may cause him to view me as one or with distrust. I don't like it and I don't agree that today lots of whites are overt racists (of course there are some) but I certainly can understand the sentiment.



hank

See, the problem you have is that you think white skin makes one culpable for what happened to all black people. You don't make a distinction between when a person came to this country or where they come from. In your mind, all white people are legitimately free game for indignation. You claim you cant understand how Wright feels, but unless you have lived in a cave all your life, you probably can. Thats the problem with this country today, is that we have been indoctrinated to think black people experience everything differently from us, thus we cant understand. That has caused special rules for blacks, cursed words that can never be spoken (depending on your skin color) and has really done nothing but continue to separate us. The fact is, all human beings go through a rough life. If you aren't black, you're fat, stupid, buck toothed, short, white, Asian, Mexican, or any plethora of other things. If you think black people are the only ones who understand hate and bigotry, than you have a lot to learn.

Wright is nothing more than a bitter old man who desperately needs to blame his people's social ills on someone other than himself. The sooner people like him are kicked to the curb and ignored, the sooner we can all mend fences and get along.

[Createdeemcee]

Reminded that some critics have said his sermons are "unpatriotic," Wright told the audience that he is a former service member. He served six years in the Marine Corps and Navy.

"Does that make me patriotic?" he asked. "How many years did Cheney serve?"


That is right, no one can take that credit from him. hes a gentile guy, but serious about his preeching.

And its not like he started this just for obama. This man has been preeching this same way since he started preeching. He has many valid points. Obama is running for office and not J Wright. Obama isnt even a member of his congregation any longer.

[Laworkerbee]

One more reason I want to see a Black president; sooner or later people will begin to have a voice, as it is now most are scared ****less of criticizing a minority because of identity politics.

[Createdeemcee]

But f*ck me if I'm going to be called a racist for not drinking the Koolaid or if I demand that Obama explain how he actually plans to do "change" anything if elected, or vote for someone else based on his lack of experience or even personal preferrence...

HE will change things cause he knows how. He sees what we as a country need. THats whats going to get us out of wasteful spending and this bs war, once thats done we can rebuild our own infrastructure. You will see.


One more reason I want to see a Black president; sooner or later people will begin to have a voice, as it is now most are scared ****less of criticizing a minority because of identity politics.


Poeple have their agreements and disagreements speak up, email someone. But barrack did dis associate from rev. wright. hes on his own mission J wright has been the same way all along and now all of a sudden people pick because hes barracks former pastor. W/out even listening to the whole message.

[hank]

I think it was more your bad grammar, than my reading comprehension. Why would we have anything other than Africans slaves? It was the African slave trade!

Murk loar d-bag. Lots and lots of races have been enslaved - even Europeans. I try to respect everyone's opinions. I really do. But if you can't read and comprehend then of what value is your opinion? Not much.

This was my quote:


this country primarily enslaved Africans

What is grammatically incorrect about that? Subject adverb verb predicate. Everything a normal person needs to read/comprehend. Bakc to school ninny.

hank

[hank]

One more reason I want to see a Black president; sooner or later people will begin to have a voice, as it is now most are scared ****less of criticizing a minority because of identity politics.

I agree. This whole thing is a win on this issue no matter what. We are talking about things that we would not be talking about if it had been Hillary v. McCain from the start.

I just worry that all this is torpedoing Obama - this and the prolonged Dem primaries. Ultimately I want to see him nominated. Hillary v. McCain is terrible to me for lots of reasons. But this dialogue is ultimately a good thing even if Obama loses. I just will have to write in LAWB on my ballot.

hank

[JKD]

Just saw a press conference with Obama where he basically severed ties with the guy.


Obama says he's outraged by former pastor's comments

By MIKE GLOVER, Associated Press Writer
3 minutes ago

HICKORY, N.C. - Democrat Barack Obama said Tuesday he was outraged by the latest assertion by his former pastor that criticism of his fiery sermons is an attack on the black church.

The presidential candidate is seeking to tamp down the growing fury over Rev. Jeremiah Wright and his incendiary remarks that threaten to envelope his campaign.

"I am outraged by the comments that were made and saddened by the spectacle that we saw yesterday," Obama told reporters at a news conference.

After weeks of staying out of the public eye while critics lambasted his sermons, Wright made three public appearances in four days to defend himself. The former pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago has been combative, providing colorful commentary and feeding the story Obama had hoped was dying down.

"This is not an attack on Jeremiah Wright," Wright told the Washington media Monday. "It has nothing to do with Senator Obama. It is an attack on the black church launched by people who know nothing about the African-American religious tradition."

Obama told reporters Tuesday that Wright's comments do not accurately portray the perspective of the black church.

"The person I saw yesterday was not the person that I met 20 years ago," Obama said of the man who married him.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080429/ap_on_el_pr/obama_pastor

[noname]

I never thought hillary would be able to pull it off. The wheels have come off of barrys white house drive.

[AGE-Ranger]

HE will change things cause he knows how. He sees what we as a country need. THats whats going to get us out of wasteful spending and this bs war, once thats done we can rebuild our own infrastructure. You will see.

Is going to wave a wand too, because the way you describe it hes going to need one.

What is change and how will he do it?:roll:


Murk loar d-bag. Lots and lots of races have been enslaved - even Europeans.We were talking about black slaves in America, not the world history of slavery. Which is why I thought you meant we were the primary enslaver of Africans. You said:

That is true, but this country primarily enslaved Africans hence the primacy of their discontent. It can be taken either way. I don't see how "primarily" enslaving Africans would make them any more discontent than simply being enslaved in the first place. Which is why I thought you maybe meant the latter.

Can you get through a post without name calling? It doesn't strengthen your case.


Just saw a press conference with Obama where he basically severed ties with the guy.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080429/ap_on_el_pr/obama_pastor

It means nothing at this point. Maybe if he did it from the beginning, but now it just looks like pandering. Remember what the Rev said about "Barack does what he needs to do as a politician", when asked about Obama's comments about Wright.

[Createdeemcee]

did anyone get out of that speech the otherday when J wright said the name of the 3 candidates and when he said john Mccain he said John McClaim? I knew it was going to get hott after that.

Hes going to do what hillary claims shes going to do. Once the war gets lightened up that means more for US citizens, more for the familys suffering from the housing market, alternate fuel is at the top of the list whice duh makes sense. First thing is to quit wasting billions monthly and make sure vets get the help they need. clamping of big companys outsourcing. Many things that are options for change bud.

[hank]

We were talking about black slaves in America, not the world history of slavery. Which is why I thought you meant we were the primary enslaver of Africans.

Can you get through a post without name calling? It doesn't strengthen your case.

Sure, I do it all the time. But none of that changes the fact that you either misread or couldn't comprehend the words I wrote. Then you said I used bad grammar. Can you just admit it when you screw up or don't understand? I guess not.

I'll say it again so maybe you can get it. The African American experience in the US is different than other racial moniroties becasue they were the minority we primarily enslaved and then persecuted when they sought equality. They were treated differently in this country for many years so for many blacks those experiences have lead to animosity. It has nothing to do with slavery in other countries, it has to do with the AA experience in this country.

hank

[Createdeemcee]

I never thought hillary would be able to pull it off. The wheels have come off of barrys white house drive.


Hasnt lost my vote, wether it be him or her, a dem is my choice. but it will be him, no more bushes or clintons, but if I need to hillary it will be.

Man hank are you grading us? haha

[JKD]

Personally I still think the whole thing's completely beyond ****ing retarded.

There are any number of issues that we and the press could be talking about but what's being discussed is something a man who's not even running for office has said.

How about we elect our leaders on what they say and on their policy proposals and not on what people they know may say? If Wright was running for office I might care more about the things Wright says.

[noname]

did anyone get out of that speech the otherday when J wright said the name of the 3 candidates and when he said john Mccain he said John McClaim? I knew it was going to get hott after that.

The only thing I get out of wrights speeches is that he is doing a great job torpedoing the campaign of barry obama. And for that I am thankful. What is even more damaging and transparent is watching barry obama distance himself now, when things get overwhelming for him. Looks like the final race will be an old used up hag against an old crazy white guy.p-)

[AGE-Ranger]

Personally I still think the whole thing's completely beyond ****ing retarded.

There are any number of issues that we and the press could be talking about but what's being discussed is something a man who's not even running for office has said.

How about we elect our leaders on what they say and on their policy proposals and not on what people they know may say? If Wright was running for office I might care more about the things Wright says.

You say this after 7 years of equating Bush to a religious nut because he knows Jerry Falwell? If that meant something, a 20 year mentorship by a raving lunatic seems pretty legitimate. Even Barack himself said its legitimate.

[noname]

Hasnt lost my vote, wether it be him or her, a dem is my choice. but it will be him, no more bushes or clintons, but if I need to hillary it will be.

Man hank are you grading us? haha

Bush is running?

[WARPIG]

I'm having some difficulty trying to understand why people are looking for a "black" president. For that matter, a "woman" president or any other deciding factor that doesn't have anything to do with ability. Now.. of course I know what sort of image a minority president will have. And, image itself can evoke change. But, skin color, ***, religion, etc, should be factors, not deal breakers.

As far as Wright is concerned. I get why he does what he does. He reaches a community. He has found a hook that gets him in position to preach in a mega church and influence thousands. If his schtick puts him in position to reach that many people, that's his way. The thing is, he's got an opportunity to really put things right. He's managed to reach "black" culture and take advantage of their social and cultural views to get them to listen. What's he got to say now? Those FOX news snippets are what Americans see of him. Yeah, we all know that black culture is different from white culture. Most people don't expect black people to act like whites, nor to integrate. What is expected is that black culture stops trying to keep themselves seperate. We want to stop being Hyphen-Americans. Just Americans. The Rev. Wrights of the world can make that happen, but don't. Why? Ask Bill Cosby.

[JKD]

You say this after 7 years of equating Bush to a religious nut because he knows Jerry Falwell?
When the f**K have I ever done that?


If that meant something, a 20 year mentorship by a raving lunatic seems pretty legitimate. Even Barack himself said its legitimate.
I disagree. He was his preacher not his political advisor. I think it's pretty stupid if we're going to start holding politicians accountable for every opinion or word spoken by every person they know.

[Laworkerbee]

I'm having some difficulty trying to understand why people are looking for a "black" president.

The end of identity politics and no more foreign finger pointing at American racism (most is unfounded and extremely hypocritical anyhow).

That said I like Obama and feel comfortable with him; his speeches for me transcend what I hate about most politicians and that is double talk, is he guilty of double talk of course but what politician isn't?

[hank]

As far as Wright is concerned. I get why he does what he does. He reaches a community. He has found a hook that gets him in position to preach in a mega church and influence thousands. If his schtick puts him in position to reach that many people, that's his way.

Try this. Consider for one second that he really feels that way. Does that change anything for you?

Whatever any of us think about Wright, its not fair to him to just assume that this is schtick. His method may be screwy, but the substance of his position is legitimate even if we disagree. To dismiss him as a crackpot really misses the point he's making (even if he's making it the wrong way).

hank

[AGE-Ranger]

When the f**K have I ever done that?

Sorry, I meant the media and Bush haters in general.



I disagree. He was his preacher not his political advisor. I think it's pretty stupid if we're going to start holding politicians accountable for every opinion or word spoken by every person that mentors, advises, or works in their campaign.

I fixed that quote for you. I know you want to parse this down to a passing acquaintance, but we all know that it much more.

[PhiltheFish]

There is no doubt that Rev. Wright is intelligent and is a very good speaker. However, if one of the goals of the Rev. Wright and the Black Church is reconciliation, then why does he infuse incendiary remarks into his speeches? I think that he is blowing his opportunity to bring visibility of the Black Church to the "dominant culture" - and that is unfortunate.

[gobdav]

There is no doubt that Rev. Wright is intellegent and is a very good speaker. However, if one of the goals of the Rev. Wright and the Black Church is reconciliation, then why does he infuse incendiary remarks into his speeches? I think that he is blowing his opportunity to bring visibility of the Black Church to the "dominant culture" - and that is unfortunate.

It's always gotta be the "Black Church," or a "Black College" or whatever. How about calling it just "The Church (insert denom here)"? That's a great step in the right direction.

[JKD]

Sorry, I meant the media and Bush haters in general.
While I'm not a part of the media I loathe our current president. However, I have never once tried to equate him "to a religious nut because he knows Jerry Falwell". There's more than enough reason to dislike Bush for his own actions and words. My original comment about judging our leaders and candidates on their own merits did not apply only to Obama.


I fixed that quote for you. I know you want to parse this down to a passing acquaintance, but we all know that it much more.

He was his preacher according to wikipedia his campaign role was: "In late 2007, Wright was appointed to Barack Obama's African American Religious Leadership Committee, a group of over 170 national black religious leaders who supported Obama's bid for the Democratic nomination;[27] however, it was announced in March 2008 that Wright was no longer serving as a member of this group."

[Chulo]

To me his behavior is actually the only interesting part of this.

Yes, I expect Baptist Preachers to be all "Hellfire and Brimstone".
Yes, I expect politicians to say and do nearly anything to get elected.
Yes, I expect the Republicans to bugger Obama royally if he gets the nomination when he goes against McCain.


Wright has more Black Liberation Theology than Baptist Theology

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Try this. Consider for one second that he really feels that way. Does that change anything for you?

Whatever any of us think about Wright, its not fair to him to just assume that this is schtick. His method may be screwy, but the substance of his position is legitimate even if we disagree. To dismiss him as a crackpot really misses the point he's making (even if he's making it the wrong way).

hank

All I have to do to know that he's running a game is to compare what he says to what he does. He's really no different than Moore or Chomsky. Take what they say, and compare it to what they do. Is Wright sitting around waiting for society to conform to the way his "black brain" thinks? Is he waiting for his reparations handout? Has his success been deferred because white folks have constructed a system designed to keep him down?

Nope - he has engaged the system, got an education, and bought himself a million dollar house in the suburbs...right next to all of his supposed enemies. If the system was racist, he'd know it because he'd be pumping gas. If whites were the source of his problems, he wouldn't be rich. A man of his education and years knows this. But he'd rather be a dishonorable rich guy than an honorable nobody.

[WARPIG]

Try this. Consider for one second that he really feels that way. Does that change anything for you?

Whatever any of us think about Wright, its not fair to him to just assume that this is schtick. His method may be screwy, but the substance of his position is legitimate even if we disagree. To dismiss him as a crackpot really misses the point he's making (even if he's making it the wrong way).

hank


Yeah.. it changes things for me. I get that he believes that blacks shouldn't be expected to conform to white culture. Guess what? Black culture thinks that, not the rest of America. Like I said,
Americans don't expect black culture or any culture to integrate into "white culture." We simply don't want them to separate themselves. There's a difference.
One caveat: We are all speaking in generalizations. Keep in mind that lumping anyone that doesn't "get" what Rev. Wright is selling into "white America" is misleading as well. I don't dismiss Wright as a crackpot. On the contrary, he's got more to offer therefore can and has done more damage. However, he's done damage to the culture he's worked so hard to champion. He's managing to sink Obama's boat when all he needed to do was simply stay out of the limelight and continue his ministry. He's back on camera again.. why?

[hank]

If the system was racist, he'd know it because he'd be pumping gas. If whites were the source of his problems, he wouldn't be rich. A man of his education and years knows this. But he'd rather be a dishonorable rich guy than an honorable nobody.

That is ridiculously simplistic and you know it. But that is all that is happening in this thread. Hate the message? Discredit the messenger.

hank

[hank]

He's managing to sink Obama's boat when all he needed to do was simply stay out of the limelight and continue his ministry.

It'll be interesting to see if that is true in the long haul. I don't think it is but only time will tell.

hank

[Doggonit55]

All I hear coming out of Obama is a lot of hot air, vague, feel-good, liberal mumbo jumbo. All flash and no substance. The man is a born politician, and worse, he really wants to be president. He has the PR machine and the self-loathing white liberals to back him. Now he's counting on the black vote. Isn't that condescending in some way?

[2Sheds_Jackson]

That is ridiculously simplistic and you know it. But that is all that is happening in this thread. Hate the message? Discredit the messenger.

hank

How is that discrediting him? On the contrary, it gives him all the credit in the world. He has made it - he's got a fancy car, nation-wide face time with the media and a million dollar house. That's one hell of an accomplishment for anybody of any race, wouldn't you agree? Does he have super powers? How is it that's he's able to accomplish so much that the rest of his downtrodden flock are unable to do? How many degrees does he have? How many languages? He's a walking, talking violation of his own premise, but that just makes him an outstanding salesman, not a failure.

[hank]

How is that discrediting him? On the contrary, it gives him all the credit in the world. He has made it - he's got a fancy car, nation-wide face time with the media and a million dollar house. That's one hell of an accomplishment for anybody of any race, wouldn't you agree? Does he have super powers? How is it that's he's able to accomplish so much that the rest of his downtrodden flock are unable to do? How many degrees does he have? How many languages? He's a walking, talking violation of his own premise, but that just makes him an outstanding salesman, not a failure.

Don't be silly. You are denigrating him for having succeeded and claiming that his success is evidence that he hasn't suffered from racism. You know exactly what I am talking about. The fact that he has succeeded in no way implies or establishes that there isn't racism. Ad hoc ergo propter hoc is the latin term that describes the logical fallacy you're falling victim to.

hank

[hank]

All I hear coming out of Obama is a lot of hot air, vague, feel-good, liberal mumbo jumbo. All flash and no substance. The man is a born politician, and worse, he really wants to be president. He has the PR machine and the self-loathing white liberals to back him. Now he's counting on the black vote. Isn't that condescending in some way?

This statement applies to all politicians. Especially the ones who run for President of the United States.

hank

[WARPIG]

That is ridiculously simplistic and you know it. But that is all that is happening in this thread. Hate the message? Discredit the messenger.

hank


Simplistic or not.. the messenger has done more than enough to discredit himself. His actions, and his message have done that..not the people that can recognize bull****.

[ronnieraygun]

I think it's pretty stupid if we're going to start holding politicians accountable for every opinion or word spoken by every person they know.

-And that's really all the discussion is about at its core. The Clinton camp exposed this guy as a wedge-type issue to drive away the sliver of support that could give Obama the win. When everyone is talking the same and is in a dead heat, all you have to do is to bring up one minute association and he's toast.

I was an acolyte for nine years every Sunday morning - guess what? My minister was/is gay. He might be a hypocrite. Someone could say I'm a gay rights activist if I ran for something and they would want to dig up dirt on me. "Look at Ronnie, his old preacher huffs dong! That must mean he too is a dong huffer and supports legalized sodomy and gay marriage and gay adoption! Get him!"

Obama's preacher is a nut and ass, but I would think less of Obama if he hung out at some suburban roller rink church with all of the rest of the yuppie politicians these days.

As far as what they guy said, Chicago has been like this for decades. As soon as Mississippi imploded after WW2 and the Great White Flight happened, you've had an opportunity for a community to evolve in relative segregation and develop some pretty wacked-out crap (Obama's preacher, El Rukns, the old classic street gangs from which modern gang culture evolved) The kind of stuff his preacher says is pretty commonplace to hear among working class blacks in Chicago. I was not surprised at all because I've heard it all before. Again, although I don't think much of his pastor, his association with Obama is merely being brought to light for Clinton to gain only a small advantage and sew doubt for people still on the fence about Obama.

[Doggonit55]

"Look at Ronnie, his old preacher huffs dong! That must mean he too is a dong huffer and supports legalized sodomy and gay marriage and gay adoption! Get him!"

Much HILARIty here... haha!

I'm not sure if dong huffer is funnier than hong duffer, but both are damn funny. Except when you're sitting in an airport lounge, dozing off, and you suddenly wake up to find it happening to you.

[WARPIG]

Don't be silly. You are denigrating him for having succeeded and claiming that his success is evidence that he hasn't suffered from racism. You know exactly what I am talking about. The fact that he has succeeded in no way implies or establishes that there isn't racism. Ad hoc ergo propter hoc is the latin term that describes the logical fallacy you're falling victim to.

hank


Of course there is racism, he's perpetuating it. Further, he's exploiting that racism to better himself. Tell me how his "message" of separating the black community and demonizing whites not racism? "the government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color."

[WARPIG]

-And that's really all the discussion is about at its core. The Clinton camp exposed this guy as a wedge-type issue to drive away the sliver of support that could give Obama the win. When everyone is talking the same and is in a dead heat, all you have to do is to bring up one minute association and he's toast.

I was an acolyte for nine years every Sunday morning - guess what? My minister was/is gay. He might be a hypocrite. Someone could say I'm a gay rights activist if I ran for something and they would want to dig up dirt on me. "Look at Ronnie, his old preacher huffs dong! That must mean he too is a dong huffer and supports legalized sodomy and gay marriage and gay adoption! Get him!"

Obama's preacher is a nut and ass, but I would think less of Obama if he hung out at some suburban roller rink church with all of the rest of the yuppie politicians these days.

As far as what they guy said, Chicago has been like this for decades. As soon as Mississippi imploded after WW2 and the Great White Flight happened, you've had an opportunity for a community to evolve in relative segregation and develop some pretty wacked-out crap (Obama's preacher, El Rukns, the old classic street gangs from which modern gang culture evolved) The kind of stuff his preacher says is pretty commonplace to hear among working class blacks in Chicago. I was not surprised at all because I've heard it all before. Again, although I don't think much of his pastor, his association with Obama is merely being brought to light for Clinton to gain only a small advantage and sew doubt for people still on the fence about Obama.


Interesting view of this. When you look at this in perspective.. it's just that. We've argued in circles about this but it's basically a smear campaign. Not that Obama didn't have this coming. I mean, his association to Wright was not much more than to gain some "street cred." But, that's fair game in politics. Wright's viewpoint isn't new.. but since it's not King's of Comedy, but an international stage, his little pond is looking pretty dirty. Bernie Mac's not going to take some of his darker jokes to prime time TV. (pardon the pun) Wright's mistake is that he's opened his mouth up again on a bigger stage. Problem is, he's not some comedian, or some douche rapper with some conspiracy theory. He's a man of faith, education, military service, and considerable influence. Now that sort of message is damaging. Especially to Obama. If Obama was as good at taking this kind of heat as he is making speeches this issue would have died by now.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Don't be silly. You are denigrating him for having succeeded and claiming that his success is evidence that he hasn't suffered from racism. You know exactly what I am talking about. The fact that he has succeeded in no way implies or establishes that there isn't racism. Ad hoc ergo propter hoc is the latin term that describes the logical fallacy you're falling victim to.

hank

While I was temporarily blinded by your invocation of Latin I must have missed the part where I claimed he never suffered from racism. Of course he has, so have you and so have I. Everybody does, it's part of the human condition. But he is not simply saying that racism exists.

He's not just making general statements about racism. He's saying that because of an actively racist culture blacks are held back. If that's true, and all those college classes he took were racially biased towards white brains, how is it that he not only passed, but excelled? What makes him different? When he says that when it comes to success, it's the government that failed blacks...how did he succeed? When he says the government invented and spread HIV to kill off "people of color"...how come he doesn't have it? Why is he the exclusion to the rule he's selling? I'm sure if I google hard enough I'll find Latin for "full of sh*t".

[Kaplanr]

According to Inter tran it's: plenus of ****

[SBL]

According to Inter tran it's: plenus of ****

Plenus stercoris.p-)

[Pigdog]

- I was an acolyte for nine years every Sunday morning - guess what? My minister was/is gay. He might be a hypocrite. Someone could say I'm a gay rights activist if I ran for something and they would want to dig up dirt on me. "Look at Ronnie, his old preacher huffs dong! That must mean he too is a dong huffer and supports legalized sodomy and gay marriage and gay adoption! Get him!"

The choice of avatar would be exhibit B. p-)

[Eztyga]

This is the sort of mentality that works toward separation again. Equality is no longer the goal for people like Wright.

Its is not in Wright's interest to be classed the same as a white, that wouldn't suit his agenda.

The aboriginies out here would throw a fit if true equality came about, they would lose all their welfare payments and have to buy their own houses and cars, go to work and deal with all the stuff that the rest of the population has to.

Ezy

[ronnieraygun]

The choice of avatar would be exhibit B. p-)

Funny guy, you. I like the "Chippenfail" meme. I think those dudes in the picture are actually Aussies from back in the day. I think I'd better change it now :)

[ronnieraygun]

Its is not in Wright's interest to be classed the same as a white, that wouldn't suit his agenda.

The aboriginies out here would throw a fit if true equality came about, they would lose all their welfare payments and have to buy their own houses and cars, go to work and deal with all the stuff that the rest of the population has to.

Ezy

Indeed - it has been brought up numerous times in the thread that this guy is not about equality but gain for hmself with a divisive message. At the end of the day, he's just bitter that while he was preaching this stuff to the flock, some multiracial cat with a slightly better pedigree than he surpassed him and blew his convenient paradigm away. I'm convinced that the pastor aims to embarrass Obama right now, but who knows.

[Mordecai]

...He says you just have to understand that older black people are still pissed about what has happened in the past. Can you blame them?

As a matter of fact I can blame them.

Do you think Jews hold all of Germany responsible for what happened to our ancestors? Despite the fact that Israel and Egypt have their problems I have never heard of, any Israeli still being pissed over our ancestors being enslaved. GET THE FVCK OVER IT ALREADY. There are plenty of WHITE people in the US who had nothing to do with slavery and shouldnt be held accountable, IN THE LEAST for it...yet we are still lumped into the MINORITY of those who were.

This country will never get past the past as long as its being rehashed in the present and propogated for the future.

As for Wright, he is a two faced bigot plain and simple. If a white pastor stood up in a church and talked about the advancement of the white race and the need for whites to patronize only white owned businesses, etc he would be branded as a racist, a member of the KKK, and run out of the country. God forbid somone run for office who had attended his church. Yet a black man can espouse the same things for blacks (I refuse to call them African-Americans, see previous post in this thread) today and if anyone challenges it they are "trying to keep the black man down." Many of the problems blacks have is not a product of "whites" discriminating against them, but moreso one of the hatred and resentment they still harbor over something that happened to people they dont even know in many cases.

What about a Natl Assoc for the Advancement of White People? How far do you think that would go? What do you think would happen to a publicly elected public official if he attended such a meeting or endorsed it... Yep the same thing that happened to Trent Lott when he tried to say something nice about, the then, longest serving US Senator. He was forced to resign from the Senate Majority Leader's position...

Its a double standard that needs to go.

Crip

[Fiber]

...If that's true, and all those college classes he took were racially biased towards white brains, how is it that he not only passed, but excelled? What makes him different? When he says that when it comes to success, it's the government that failed blacks...how did he succeed? When he says the government invented and spread HIV to kill off "people of color"...how come he doesn't have it? Why is he the exclusion to the rule he's selling? I'm sure if I google hard enough I'll find Latin for "full of sh*t".

My guess. He's a cracker in disguise.

[AGE-Ranger]

Looks like Obama's flock is turning on him, since he went after Wright yesterday.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/29/15229/9451/643/505817

"Uncle Tom" Obama

by Kaos237 (http://kaos237.dailykos.com/)

Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 12:29:50 PM PDT

I have been a huge supporter of Barack. He is the guy I've been behind for quite awhile now. Check my older diaries if you wonder about that. And while I've been steeling myself for a Barack loss in November, because I think the Repug machine is too good for him to beat, I had resigned myself to still working hard for him and for the Progressive cause!
But today something changed for me...
Today, the scales fell from my eyes and I saw Barack Obama for what he truly is: a weak man and a standard politician. I really never thought I would say this...
But I am disgusted with him!



Read the rest on the site. Its hilarious.

[Mordecai]

Reminded that some critics have said his sermons are "unpatriotic," Wright told the audience that he is a former service member. He served six years in the Marine Corps and Navy.

"Does that make me patriotic?" he asked. "How many years did Cheney serve?"


That is right, no one can take that credit from him. hes a gentile guy, but serious about his preeching...

I dont think anyone is trying to take his record of service in the military away from him. However, there are plenty of people who havent served in the military who are patriotic and plenty who have served that arent patriotic. Service isnt in and of itself the defining factor of ones patriotism; its allegiance to the betterment and success of our nation as a WHOLE.

Wright's words (which serve not much more than to divide our nation) are what defines him as unpatriotic.

I agree he is charasmatic about his preaching to the "black church."

Crip

[hank]

Wright's words (which serve not much more than to divide our nation) are what defines him as unpatriotic.

I agree he is charasmatic about his preaching to the "black church."

Crip

Spare me the unpatriotic bull****. Displeasure (even passionate displeasure) with your government is patriotism. You sound like Bush and his minion. The founding fathers welcomed dissent. Hell this country was founded on political dissent.

Comments like yours are the problem with all these debates. Everyone turns it into personal attack against the messenger when they don't like the message. Look, the guy has a right to complain. Maybe some of it is crazy and provocative. So what? Paine was considered a bit of a crazy man in his day. But don't take that and turn it into he's unpatriotic. If he didn't love America he wouldn't want to change it.

I wonder what this country would be like if, instead of discrediting and disputing guys like Wright, we, as a country, said, "hmm, he's pretty pissed. Why?" And then went about fixing the cause of his animosity. But no. What do we do? Attack him because some of his comments are offensive to us. Great. We offended him so we ignore him because he now offends us. Circularity at its finest. And another generation of animosity is bread.

2 sheds - Look, if you think your posts arent' attacks on Wright then we'll just have to disagree. You've spent 0% of your posts addressing his grievances and 100% saying he's only out for himself or some other credibility attack. Deal with the issues instead for a refershing change. Its always this way with you. Somebody sues? Their only out for money. Judge makes a decision? He's got sinister motivations. Doctor does X? He's got an agenda. Scientist sees humans causing global warming? Its a conspiracy. All the while you never deal with issues. Whateva. Here's a new flash. Sometimes people do stuff you don't like for the right reasons. That is all.

Warpig - you alos aren't dealing with the issue. Forget the method of delivery and deal with the issue. If you still disagree and think he has not point then fine. I don't agree but at least then we could just disagree. At this point I'm saying he's got a point and you're saying I don't like what he's saying. Ships in the night as they say.

Let me just also say that as in most of these threads it kind of looks like I agree with Wright (or the subject, etc.) That is not the case. Must of what Wright says is plain stupid and flatly wrong. The CIA did not invent AIDS to kills blacks. But looking past that I understand his animosity even if I dislike his message. That is all I am saying. Why? Because I am rational and objective and I can see past the bluster to get to the "why" he says what he says. And there is some validity to his gripes.

hank

[SBL]

So Hank, what exactly is the root of his animosity?

[hank]

So Hank, what exactly is the root of his animosity?

Only he can say, but for people of his generation I'd say its the long struggle for equality. I would imagine in his eyes he feels that any equality blacks have achieved has been given grudgingly by an uncaring country. I'm not sure that is true, but I imagine that is it. As I said in earlier posts - he is old enough to remember when blacks in the South could be lynched with no real chance to prosecute the lynchers. And I'd imagine he feels like while we've come far its not because our country willingly realized the err in our ways. We had to be dragged kicking and screaming to where we are, which to him is not where we should be.

Don't turn this into "is he right or wrong?" Ask yourself if there is any basis for his animosity. I'd say there is from his perspective. As a country we should care about that and not beat him down for saying it - which at this point is all that is happening.

I can't wait to see the withering blasts headed my way for this one.

I should also add that the above is what I would be pissed about if I were him. I can't say its what pisses him off, but if hte roles were reversed its what I would be mad about. That is the only reason I think I "understand" his animosity. I'm not black so I can never really know "why", but that's my shot at the "why."

hank

[WARPIG]

Spare me the unpatriotic bull****. Displeasure (even passionate displeasure) with your government is patriotism. You sound like Bush and his minion. The founding fathers welcomed dissent. Hell this country was founded on political dissent.

Comments like yours are the problem with all these debates. Everyone turns it into personal attack against the messenger when they don't like the message. Look, the guy has a right to complain. Maybe some of it is crazy and provocative. So what? Paine was considered a bit of a crazy man in his day. But don't take that and turn it into he's unpatriotic. If he didn't love America he wouldn't want to change it.

I wonder what this country would be like if, instead of discrediting and disputing guys like Wright, we, as a country, said, "hmm, he's pretty pissed. Why?" And then went about fixing the cause of his animosity. But no. What do we do? Attack him because some of his comments are offensive to us. Great. We offended him so we ignore him because he now offends us. Circularity at its finest. And another generation of animosity is bread.

2 sheds - Look, if you think your posts arent' attacks on Wright then we'll just have to disagree. You've spent 0% of your posts addressing his grievances and 100% saying he's only out for himself or some other credibility attack. Deal with the issues instead for a refershing change. Its always this way with you. Somebody sues? Their only out for money. Judge makes a decision? He's got sinister motivations. Doctor does X? He's got an agenda. Scientist sees humans causing global warming? Its a conspiracy. All the while you never deal with issues. Whateva. Here's a new flash. Sometimes people do stuff you don't like for the right reasons. That is all.

Warpig - you alos aren't dealing with the issue. Forget the method of delivery and deal with the issue. If you still disagree and think he has not point then fine. I don't agree but at least then we could just disagree. At this point I'm saying he's got a point and you're saying I don't like what he's saying. Ships in the night as they say.

Let me just also say that as in most of these threads it kind of looks like I agree with Wright (or the subject, etc.) That is not the case. Must of what Wright says is plain stupid and flatly wrong. The CIA did not invent AIDS to kills blacks. But looking past that I understand his animosity even if I dislike his message. That is all I am saying. Why? Because I am rational and objective and I can see past the bluster to get to the "why" he says what he says. And there is some validity to his gripes.

hank


Bud, you've done your share of attacking the messenger "members" in this post yourself. Being condescending and flippant with anyone that doesn't see Wright through the same prison you do just works against your argument. So, people think he's unpatriotic.. big deal. I don't think that's the case but, his actions and words are harmful at this level. No doubt he's the "beacon of light" many people believe him to be at the local level. But our perspective is a bit wider right now. Does he have a point? Does he have a valid "beef" that justifies his arrogant and racist comments? Sure. But, that's assuming we buy his message. I don't. Nor do I believe he's genuine. Al Sharpton, Alicia Keys, Kanye West... all have had similar sound bites. Guess what.. we don't care. Why do we care now? Because this guy's got the stuff. He's genuine. He's got his 15 minutes of fame, and he exploits cultural controversy.

If Pastor WARPIG feels that blacks exploit the national guilt that is associated with the inequities of the past, I'd likely have an audience that agrees with me. Maybe even a large audience. But, if I put that message out there with comments like "blacks are exploiting America, or even "reverse discrimmination" and "self victimization" at a National or international level.. guess what. I'm a racist then. Never mind my "message," or if I have a valid argument. It doesn't wash at this level and it harms my message.

Just a little FYI. Patriotism as a word has long been bastardized. Per your explanation, if some war protester marches the streets in his birthday suit while wiping his a55 with the US Flag chanting "Save the troops, end the War." He's a patriot. Dissent with the government and insulting the Nation aren't the same. Rev Wright has insulted this nation and that's why he's taking heat. He's a grown up, he can take it. Say controversial things, it tends to come back at you.

[SBL]

Only he can say




Exactly. He IS saying, and some of it happens to be stuff like the government invented AIDS to kill black people. I don't understand why we shouldn't be at least a little concerned about the nature of this guy's character based what he says and (apparently) thinks.
I can certainly understand being bitter over what may have happened 30+ years ago, but that doesn't make his attitude or his opinions acceptable, imo. I see it one of two ways: either this guy is being disingenuous for his own purposes, or he actually believes what he says. Either way, it would seem peoples' criticism is entirely warranted.

[Hollis]

Maybe it is really all simple, he is 70. One of the greatest voices in my time was Dr. King. Dr. King has set a modern day standard that no one has yet reached. Rev. Jackson was thought to be able to fill Dr. King's shoes in the early 70's, but just did not measure up. Al. Sharpton has stumbled by the way side. We joke about women's biological clocks ticking, may Rev. Wright has that problem too.


Dr. King's legacy will fill books in history, Rev. Wright just make a foot note in history as Obama's Minster or something much longer, as the man who blew Obama's campaign leading to the Victory of John McCain.


BTW, the religious message that Dr. King presented is about the opposite of Rev. Wright's that he has recently presented.

[Laworkerbee]

If Hillary is elected I'm going to find this Reverend and kick him square in the nuts.

[Hot Lips]

...
hank

Now show us what a great lawyer you truly are and agrue the other side. ;)

[Laworkerbee]

Hanks arms must be pretty damned tired, he has taken on half the forum.

*Hope his paralegal got some kudo's*

[Mordecai]

Spare me the unpatriotic bull****. Displeasure (even passionate displeasure) with your government is patriotism. You sound like Bush and his minion. The founding fathers welcomed dissent. Hell this country was founded on political dissent.

Comments like yours are the problem with all these debates. Everyone turns it into personal attack against the messenger when they don't like the message. Look, the guy has a right to complain. Maybe some of it is crazy and provocative. So what? Paine was considered a bit of a crazy man in his day. But don't take that and turn it into he's unpatriotic. If he didn't love America he wouldn't want to change it...

What does he want to change America into is the question...

Its not the man I am demonizing; it is the message of hate. I could give two sh1ts less who he is. It doesnt matter to me if he is white, black, brown or pink with purple polkadots. The undisputable fact of the matter is he has yet to say anything that isnt filled with a disdain for his fellow American.

I have yet to see a sermon on TV where he has talked about unity of the US. I have however seen him talk about the US govt creating AIDS to kill blacks; that the prisons are filled with young blacks because they are black (not because they commit crimes mind you), etc... I have yet to see him talk about these troubles (which apparently only plague blacks) and place the blames where they belong. It always seems to be someone elses fault, instead of the person having the problem. Why is he always talking about the "black communities' problems? Why are they just the "black communities" problems? He is being divisive.

I am not denying in the past and very limited in the present that there werent problems with race but much of what he talks about arent societal problems; they are personal responsibility problems. How long are previous generations going to be blamed and used as scapegoats for todays problems instead of owning those problems and seeking a solution.

We, as a nation, cant heal from the wounds of the past, as long as someone is driving a knife into them in the present.

WARPig covered the patriotism issue...



Crip

[Hot Lips]

Hanks arms must be pretty damned tired, he has taken on half the forum.

*Hope his paralegal got some kudo's*

Hank is my hero. Even when I don't fully agree (which isn't that often) gotta admire his style. He can take it.

[DS73]

I see it is already repeated many times here, but anyway my 0.02c.

Quite a few people mess up culture and race. Often for an obvious reason that people who look alike tend to behave alike. But it is never the same.
Heck in a way even apartheid leaders understood this.
(notion of ''"honorary whites" see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartheid#Other_minorities)


Children that grow up in black american house holds have different learning tactics then kids that grow up in a traditional caucasian american house hold.

What you point out is definitely true. People who grow up in ghettoes or trailer cities have different behavior patterns and believes than boys living in 'two floores America'. But these differences have nothing to do with race (what 'race' does Eminem represent?) and everything with culture: the way how kids are taught by parents and street (if they are lucky by school), what they are told and what they see first years of life.
(scientifically inclined can pick in : http://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/faculty/block/papers/Heritability.html,
the best quote: "As Herrnstein and Murray concede, children from very low socio-economic status backgrounds who are adopted into high socio-economic status backgrounds have IQs dramatically higher than their parents. ")


What this priest says is clean and obvious racism statement. Any statement that says 'people generic capabilities can be determined just by looks' (or age, or gender ) was and still is a racist statement. And any such statement from a public person should be scrutinized.

Btw. there is no veritable research stating that black have 'right half dominant', and there is a lot of hints that ADD has to do with parents diet.

Idea about five-seven tones is just plain hilarious. Pentatonic (five-note) scale is still very popular in Eastern Europe. Is this area populated by blacks? I have serious doubts. It is not 'popular' in west Europe anymore only because traditional ancient music was suppressed by 'civilized' 'art' forms.

OT: Always when some American starts talking bout black 'anti racists' I just get stoned. The idea of 'good' racist statements was always beyond my understanding. Can somebody explain where this sh*t came from?

[DS73]

The guy can hold whatever view he wants on being a victim, God damning America, CIA AIDs conspiracies etc. I really don't give a fat rats ass. I'm just saying that if I was Barak Obama or anyone remotely associated with his campaign I would have realized a long time ago that this man is a walking clusterf*ck of a political timebomb and I would want him silenced immediately.

One would think that this man, as a mentor and former pastor of a serious candidate for President would be able to put aside his need to be an attention whore and realize that he is causing damage to any chances Obama has.

It f*cking boggles my mind.

With the expeption of (ex)protestant cultural area friendship and family ties are most valuable treasures. Only 'germanic' people succeeded to discover idea of separating business and personal affairs.

[DS73]

This is slightly off topic. But it highlights your point I think.
it and it makes sense. This country knew for years that blacks were persecuted in the South and did nothing. But the boys in MS kill a Jewish kid from Ohio and we put a stop to it. When I think about that now it makes me mad but its fleeting. I can move on and not think about it. But, if I were black and living in the South in the 60's I think that would make me much more upset. Only the death of a white kid prompted LBJ to send the FBI. But I'd never thought about that. Why? Its not a primary issue for me like it would be for men of Wright's generation. Its an injustice but its not my injustice - either for generational or racial issues. But I can identify with that sense of injustice even if I disagree with Wright's comments in general.

hank

Right now black, hispanic boys kill each other on streets of american cities and american society does 'nothing'. Just like in your case the lack of commitment can be attributed to racism, or it can be attributed to 'irrelevance of street gangs' to main nation history. These people are (and were) living on outskirts of society. Their existence doesn't influence much anything and even when it does it is by those who try to unite theirs communities using 'us against them' rhetorics.

The worst what is still happening, that many people from 'not white' communities are very much stacked in their traditional 'nonwestern' values systems and even worse try to 'recover' those sets in their new homes. It is bad not because their values are 'inferior' or less 'civilized' (whatever these words could mean), or even not because these values sets contributed to their home countries 'achievements' that led to emigration, but because their value system directly contradicts or tries to suppress local 'western' value set. Hell of a reason for some hardcore homemade racism.

[hank]

Warpig - I'll stop being condescending and flippant when you and others stop every post by dismissin substance and turning to attack Wright. if you want ideological debate then debate idology. I see you using a lot of labels without much substance. I've said my piece. I don't agree with him. I don't like his style. But I objectively and rationally consider his position. Have you or 2 sheds done that? If you have your posts don't indicate it. That is all I'm saying. And that is very common from this forum. Every person we disagree with gets labels and dismissed. That just isn't intellectually honest. I'm sorry if that makes you think I'm being flippant. But I make points and I get a steady stream of essentially nana****oo crap (and not just from you and 2 sheds). "He is dumb." "He is crazy." Yeah. nuh-nuh. That is most of the points in this trhead bolied down to a sound bite. If that seems harsh or flippant then I am sorry.

SBL - dude I already said the AIDS thing is ridiculous. Ask yourself this. This guy is educated. Worldy. If he is so pissed that he can convince himself that the CIA invented AIDS to kill blacks, how pissed must he be? And understand that even the age difference does not allow you to have the benefit of his experiences. Let alone race. Try to understand his point first, then dismiss him. If, like me, you understand and disagree then fine. But let's stop the silly label game that gets played.

Here is my personal position with respect to Wright. He's seen stuff that has made him lose his way a little. He may even really believe much of what he says - even the ridiculous stuff. And I reject a lot of it. It is hate-filled and not representative of the world I live in. But if I am right and he is still saying and being followed, then doesn't that make it worse? Isn't it a horrible indictment of this country and what has happened that a guy like Wright can get that mad? And get so many to follow him? Instead of saying he's wrong, wouldn't we all be better of if we tried to stop the cause of the problem? I say yes. Obvioulsy I am the only one. So be it.

I just flat out disagree on patriotism. And I think you all have lost your way on that issue. But it doesn't matter. If you love this country and you want to sit by and let stuff you disagree with happen then do it. If Wright wants to speak out luckily the 1st A says he can. If you don't like what he says then do something about it. Burn a flag. OR a draft card. Whatever. Practicing your rights IS patriotic. Even when it is offensive. Offensive speech is the most protected speech. Just bc you don't like it doesn't change that.

Hollis - don't forget that before his death, MLK was feeling lost and was considering giving up non-violence. He was jsut as mad as Wright but he delivered the message in a different way. And many many civil rights leaders still don't think MLK got enough done with non-violence. I said it before - this is only shocking bc its being put in the national media. Black church leaders say this stuff to black congregations every day in this country.

hank

[hank]

I see it one of two ways: either this guy is being disingenuous for his own purposes, or he actually believes what he says. Either way, it would seem peoples' criticism is entirely warranted.

OK, fair enough. But if the criticism always starts with "this guy is a racist" or "he's only saying that to get attention" then is it really criticism? I don't think so.

Real criticism works like this for example. I disagree with Wright on at least two key points. First, there is no evidence that the CIA invented AIDS to kill blacks. That kind of rhetoric is irresponsible for a man with his influence and he should stop saying that. Second, his impression of current race relations isn't grounded in reality. Its based on his generational views of the civil rights movement and doesn't take into account generational differences. For example, my generation doesn't live in a world where its acceptable to kill black men who date white women. And Wright's comments don't account for that.

See how that works. Understand the position and then explain why you disagree as a matter of substance. On the other hand, what happens in this forum is as follows: Wright is dumb. He is a reverse racist (anybody who even considers using this term is frankly not thinking as "reverse racism" cannnot exist.) I don't think he's being genuine. He just wants to fill pews, etc. ad nauseum.

Do you see the difference?

Here is a concrete example of the "criticism" I'm talking about:


Just finished watching the linked video. I get the feeling the guy is far more interested in his own views than he is concerned for the impact that it might have on Obama's campaign. He is going to cash in on it with a book.

That is not criticism of Wright's position. That is a personal attack that sidesteps the substance and goes to the motivation. In politics it would be called an attack ad.

Here is another concrete example of the type of personal attack I'm talking about.


Rev. Wright has all the ability to actually "unite" people, but instead, is just another character that perpetuates and exploits cultural controversy.

Now please tell me how wrong I am.

hank

[Hollis]

Hollis - don't forget that before his death, MLK was feeling lost and was considering giving up non-violence. He was jsut as mad as Wright but he delivered the message in a different way. And many many civil rights leaders still don't think MLK got enough done with non-violence. I said it before - this is only shocking bc its being put in the national media. Black church leaders say this stuff to black congregations every day in this country.

hank


Unfortunately that we will never know, a assassin bullet ended it. I don't think he is as mad or was mad. You forgot I was around then, knew people. It is a part of history I don't need someone telling me 100% of what happen. I don't see Dr. King being like the Elijah Muhammad of NOI, or Angela Davis, H.Rap Brown or others. Many in that area dislike Dr. King, they did not want unity or fixing the US. They were more for a New Order.

I disagree with your use of the term "civil rights leader", a civil rights leader is for the rights of all people, not just their group. While Elijah Muhammad might be tagged for civil rights, he was not, he was a separationist at best.

Your right he was attack by those people who wanted revolution. I think Dr. King actually believed in what he preached. Rev. Wright, just seems like a worn out revolutionary who finally got some national attention. Maybe at the beginning he was sincere.

[SBL]

SBL - dude I already said the AIDS thing is ridiculous. Ask yourself this. This guy is educated. Worldy. If he is so pissed that he can convince himself that the CIA invented AIDS to kill blacks, how pissed must he be? And understand that even the age difference does not allow you to have the benefit of his experiences. Let alone race. Try to understand his point first, then dismiss him. If, like me, you understand and disagree then fine. But let's stop the silly label game that gets played.He's either A) very pissed, or B) kinda pissed, or C) not pissed at all. Being pissed isn't a prerequisite for being manipulative or of being a fruit cake.
Since we agree that it's total bunk, we can reasonably agree that he's probably doing one of two things: He's either deliberately making irresponsible suggestions or he's mistaken. You seem to be suggesting that he gets a pass on making the comments because he's old and black.

[Lusitania]

Spare me the unpatriotic bull****. Displeasure (even passionate displeasure) with your government is patriotism. You sound like Bush and his minion. The founding fathers welcomed dissent. Hell this country was founded on political dissent.

Comments like yours are the problem with all these debates. Everyone turns it into personal attack against the messenger when they don't like the message. Look, the guy has a right to complain. Maybe some of it is crazy and provocative. So what? Paine was considered a bit of a crazy man in his day. But don't take that and turn it into he's unpatriotic. If he didn't love America he wouldn't want to change it.


hank

I'm surprised no one has called you out on this. You say the founding fathers welcomed dissent, my simple response is a little something called the Alien and Sedition Acts. Never raise the founding fathers to the marble figures of which you see in the capitol, they were humans as well, and they too had political ambitions, even within the nation they created.

As for Paine, he was extremely influential during the Revolution and his book Common Sense was rallied as a leading component of American patriotism during the Revolution. Paine was not considered crazy amongst those who were for the Revolution, and many of his works were hailed in high regard. It was after a series of post-Revolutionary scandals (some of which connecting to the XYZ affair) that Paine began to fall out of American favor. After of which Paine went to France; upon his return after years in Europe, Revolutionary fervor had since died in the United States and Paine was no longer anyone of any importance within American society. His views were marginalized, and by the the early 19th century his views did not even coincide with those of the United States. It was never an issue of patriotism with Paine, it was simply that he no longer held the views of the ruling powers.

[hank]

I'm surprised no one has called you out on this. You say the founding fathers welcomed dissent, my simple response is a little something called the Alien and Sedition Acts. Never raise the founding fathers to the marble figures of which you see in the capitol, they were humans as well, and they too had political ambitions, even within the nation they created.

As for Paine, he was extremely influential during the Revolution and his book Common Sense was rallied as a leading component of American patriotism during the Revolution. Paine was not considered crazy amongst those who were for the Revolution, and many of his works were hailed in high regard. It was after a series of post-Revolutionary scandals (some of which connecting to the XYZ affair) that Paine began to fall out of American favor. After of which Paine went to France; upon his return after years in Europe, Revolutionary fervor had since died in the United States and Paine was no longer anyone of any importance within American society. His views were marginalized, and by the the early 19th century his views did not even coincide with those of the United States. It was never an issue of patriotism with Paine, it was simply that he no longer held the views of the ruling powers.

Of course the other revolutionaries didn't think Paine was crazy. But the Brits did. Do I really need to explain to you that pre-revolution Paine's lack of partiotism would be in relation to the British Empire?

I guess we'll just disagree on dissent. I think that the 1st A was put in to the BoR to protect this kind of talk - the stuff that most people don't like. If everyone agrees then noone will try to suppress it. But I guess that's just me.

hank

[hank]

He's either A) very pissed, or B) kinda pissed, or C) not pissed at all. Being pissed isn't a prerequisite for being manipulative or of being a fruit cake.
Since we agree that it's total bunk, we can reasonably agree that he's probably doing one of two things: He's either deliberately making irresponsible suggestions or he's mistaken. You seem to be suggesting that he gets a pass on making the comments because he's old and black.

I never said I agreed it was all bunk. I said some of it was but that even with that in mind I understand his motiviation, so I'm willing to look past those parts which I fidn ridiculous. For someone who likes to wade in on these complex issues, you sure get simplistic when it suits you.

There is another option - he's allowed his animosity to cloud his judgment and he really believes his allegations. Since I don't also harbor that animosity I'm capable of realizing that some of it is flat wrong. Maybe he's not.

I'm not giving him a pass. I've said repeatedly that he's lost his way a little. But that doesn't mean he's wrong on everything. He sees injustice and he rails against it. God bless him for that even if I disagree. I see the injustice also. Why don't I do anything? Who knows. But jsut because I'm not personally passionate about it doesn't change the fact that there is and has been a lot of injustice in how this country treats all minorities. Its just that the AA experience is a little fresher than some others.

hank

[hank]

Unfortunately that we will never know, a assassin bullet ended it. I don't think he is as mad or was mad. You forgot I was around then, knew people. It is a part of history I don't need someone telling me 100% of what happen. I don't see Dr. King being like the Elijah Muhammad of NOI, or Angela Davis, H.Rap Brown or others. Many in that area dislike Dr. King, they did not want unity or fixing the US. They were more for a New Order.

I disagree with your use of the term "civil rights leader", a civil rights leader is for the rights of all people, not just their group. While Elijah Muhammad might be tagged for civil rights, he was not, he was a separationist at best.

Your right he was attack by those people who wanted revolution. I think Dr. King actually believed in what he preached. Rev. Wright, just seems like a worn out revolutionary who finally got some national attention. Maybe at the beginning he was sincere.

I never said that MLK was ready to take up arms. My point was that its nothing new for African American leaders to be pissed even church leaders. Its also nothing new for even those who believe in non-violence to get so frustrated that they consider other options.

We can disagree about the definition of a "civil rights leader" if you want, but its not really the point. The point is that any objective observer will acknolwedge that African Americans have been treated badly in this country for a long time. Its certainly better now but old wounds die hard. What would you do if the roles were reversed? Would you want to be part of a country that enslaved you and then did nothing when your right to vote was violently suppressed? I probably would be mad as well. And I suspect that you would be mad also. That is my only point.

Just as you did, Wright lived through a lot of this and its obviously effected him. And his experience was vastly different than yours I'd imagine.

But since we are talking about "civil rights" and "leaders" I'll say this. In the context of the African American experience its a loaded term. You are right, "civil rights" apply to all and they should. But that too is overly simplistic. The only people having their civil rights violated were African Americans (and other minorities to be sure but definitely not whites) when it came to voting and public access, etc. So to say that only those preaching unity are "leaders" is also bit misleading. Surely MLK wanted unity and to a large extent he never really got it, and he recognized that at the end of his life and was frustrated by that fact. But the fact that he wanted and never really got unity doesn't mean that those who didn't want unity weren't leaders. Leaders have followers. Surely the people you mention had followers and the main issue they dealt with was "civil rights." I mean there were plenty of white leaders (like MS Gov. Paul B. Johnson) that weren't preaching "unity" and they got elected (thus had a constituency and aren't they "followers"?) and were "leaders." And they weren't afraid to use violence to prevent unity - and in fact did use violence to prevent unity. So to then say that those who weren't the non-violent types seeking unity weren't "leaders" is a bit of a have your cake and eat it too argument. There were "leaders" on both sides who actively advocated against unity. MLK is easily the best known African American leader form the period and he preached non-violence. But that doesn't diminsh the fact that many other leaders thought differently but were nontheless "leaders."

I'm not saying King didn't believe what he preached or that he was ready to publicly renounce non-violence andtake up arms. I'm simply saying that at the end of his life he was frustrated and that he questioned whether non-violence had been the best course. Its only human nature to question yourself and King did that.

hank

[Lambert58]

He sees injustice and he rails against it. God bless him for that even if I disagree. I see the injustice also. Why don't I do anything? Who knows. But jsut because I'm not personally passionate about it doesn't change the fact that there is and has been a lot of injustice in how this country treats all minorities. Its just that the AA experience is a little fresher than some others.

hank

America is no more guilty of mistreating minorities than any other state that's existed since the dawn of time. In fact, this country has more protections for minority groups than 99.9% of those that have ever existed. People like wright magnify what little racism is left in this country for personal gain. THAT is why he is reviled: he breeds hate and resentment. I'm not a racist, but if there were enough Wrights, and enough people listening to them, I sure might think about becoming one.

[hank]

America is no more guilty of mistreating minorities than any other state that's existed since the dawn of time. In fact, this country has more protections for minority groups than 99.9% of those that have ever existed. People like wright magnify what little racism is left in this country for personal gain. THAT is why he is reviled: he breeds hate and resentment. I'm not a racist, but if there were enough Wrights, and enough people listening to them, I sure might think about becoming one.

dear god please read what you say is true now but was not true for more than 200 years of our country's existence that is the whole point I've been making over and over and apparently lack of reading comprehension makes that impossible I think I'll give up punctuation a la Faulkner and see if that helps with reading comprehension but I doubt it oh well and oh by the way what does the way other countriess treat minorities have to do with Wright do you think he cares that he is treated better than a minority in China since he doesn't live there I doubt that he is sitting around saying this sucks but it could be worse I could live in Tibet see my point

hank

[conefire]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve



Ergo, what Wright is saying sounds a lot like this crap.

Sorry to jump in here and possibly beat a dead horse, but how is this book crap exactly? Have you read it?

I admit I haven't and only stumbled upon this thread after skipping through the wikipedia entry of the book. I'm going to read it pretty soon though, as apparently my local library has a copy.

But from what I read so far this book is not the racist or social-darwinistic crap you make it out to be. While it is very controversial and the sample studied by them may be distorted (as is virtually every sample when it comes to social studies), I have yet seen any evidence that the authors' had any racist intentions: They gathered data and those were the results. Numbers don't lie, only the people interpreting them do. Moreover, nowhere in the book does it say that "blacks are less intelligent than whites due to their genes", there are much more plausible explanations for the perceived differences. BTW, the parts of the book dealing with ethnicity are scarce and this is not at all the main subject of the book.

[Lambert58]

dear god please read what you say is true now but was not true for more than 200 years of our country's existence that is the whole point I've been making over and over and apparently lack of reading comprehension makes that impossible I think I'll give up punctuation a la Faulkner and see if that helps with reading comprehension but I doubt it oh well and oh by the way what does the way other countriess treat minorities have to do with Wright do you think he cares that he is treated better than a minority in China since he doesn't live there I doubt that he is sitting around saying this sucks but it could be worse I could live in Tibet see my point

hank

If your point is the death of the period, then yes, I see it. And Wright is the one making the distinction that America is racist. You acknowledge that America is the nation that protects minorities, now. Well, then, we're done, aren't we? Because now is what matters. It only took America 200 years to protect minorities. The VAST majority of other countries on this Earth haven't made anywhere NEAR the kind of progress this nation has made with a whole helluva lot more time to sort it out. Yet, poeple like Wright still scream: "Oh, I'm a victim! Poor me!" As he builds his 10k foot $million mansion, instead of praising the USA for what it is: A nation where all people can come and be equal. People like Wright retard our progress and diminish the efforts of everyone who's sought to make this the best place to live in the history of mankind.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

hank dont you give up on punctuation you son of a bitch and in the name of christ do we really need to point out the fact that the CIA didnt invent AIDS for the debate to be acceptable i mean of the two things to talk about either the crazy reverend or the mechanics of building an acceptable framework to critique him why would we waste time on the latter some of us post here having done a lot of reading about the subject matter and cut to the chase and that doesnt mean our opinions are based on the superficial it just means when a guy says the CIA invented HIV to kill off blacks we kinda feel like we dont need to start by re-establishing the shared reality that weve all lived in for the last 40 years in order to state our opinions hey this is fun

[seraosha]

Salinger is turning in his grave.

[helomech]

This thread still carrying on...?

Rev Wright is a racist ****head,what more needs to be expounded upon?

[wotsnext]

Salinger is turning in his grave.
He's dead?

[tbk107]

This thread still carrying on...?

Rev Wright is a racist ****head,what more needs to be expounded upon?
This whole Rev. Wright affair has actually been very enlightening. What I've learned is that within a sizable portion of the black community his views are the norm. I've also learned that a sizable portion is more mad at Rev Wright for saying these things in 'public' instead of being mad at him for saying them in the first place.

Can we please stop with the 'you don't know where he's been or the things he's seen' crap because that plays both ways. I'm not about to try and 'understand' Rev. Wright any more then I would a white bigot; they are what they are, racists.

[WARPIG]

hank dont you give up on punctuation you son of a bitch and in the name of christ do we really need to point out the fact that the CIA didnt invent AIDS for the debate to be acceptable i mean of the two things to talk about either the crazy reverend or the mechanics of building an acceptable framework to critique him why would we waste time on the latter some of us post here having done a lot of reading about the subject matter and cut to the chase and that doesnt mean our opinions are based on the superficial it just means when a guy says the CIA invented HIV to kill off blacks we kinda feel like we dont need to start by re-establishing the shared reality that weve all lived in for the last 40 years in order to state our opinions hey this is fun
Wicked cool run on.

Why the **** are we still working this dead horse?

[Hollis]

Wicked cool run on.

Why the **** are we still working this dead horse?


In respect to multiculturalism and the views of people indigenous to the South Pacific Islands, the horse is not dead. The horse will be officially dead when it's bones are bleached white, gathered and deposited on the roof of our hut.

[AGE-Ranger]

Why the **** are we still working this dead horse?

What this thread needs is a hijack argument over whether Bush lied or not about WMD.

[Laworkerbee]

Hank

I'm rested, ready, and carrying a pack full of ammunition if you need some cover fire for round two Buddy.

[Chulo]

What this thread needs is a hijack argument over whether Bush lied or not about WMD.
has Nazis been brought up yet?

[AGE-Ranger]

has Nazis been brought up yet?

No, but I have some bizaaro world Algore quotes!


“Bush deserves heavy blame for intentionally concealing from the American people the clear nature of Saddam Hussein and his regime and for convincing himself that friendly relations with such a monster would be possible, and for persisting in this effort far, far beyond the point of folly”

[Lambert58]

No, but I have some bizaaro world Algore quotes!

[/b]

Al needs a swift punch in the c*ck.

[WARPIG]

Hank

I'm rested, ready, and carrying a pack full of ammunition if you need some cover fire for round two Buddy.


This is a battle of wits buddy... better find some cover.

[Laworkerbee]

It's troublesome that liberal whites act in a racist fashion so often without realising it. We all know where the conservatives stand. They're transparent. They hate black people. The liberals are translucent. They like us when it's convenient.

....Orlando Lima on being Black in America

This guy just doesn't get it about conservatives but see's the liberal view point quite well when it comes to race.

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/orlando_lima/2008/03/being_black_in_america.html


This is a battle of wits buddy... better find some cover.

Been holding my own just fine Pal and have not found the need to pop smoke and run yet.

[AGE-Ranger]

Al needs a swift punch in the c*ck.

Its possibly the most accurate statement hes ever made.


This is a battle of wits buddy... better find some cover.

Its the final countdown. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZkllM8znx4)

[IraGlacialis]

In respect to multiculturalism and the views of people indigenous to the South Pacific Islands, the horse is not dead. The horse will be officially dead when it's bones are bleached white, gathered and deposited on the roof of our hut.
I think they need to be blessed as well.
Between the bleaching and the gathering, I think.

Oh, and flowers. Lots and lots of flowers.

[California Joe]

hank rules. Especially for the Faulkner referrence.

My Mom Met JD Salinger in a book store in New Hampshire once. Talked to him for a half an hour or so, said he was very nice.

[California Joe]

In respect to multiculturalism and the views of people indigenous to the South Pacific Islands, the horse is not dead. The horse will be officially dead when it's bones are bleached white, gathered and deposited on the roof of our hut.

Way to go Hollis. Why do the bones have to be bleached white? p-)

[IraGlacialis]

Way to go Hollis. Why do the bones have to be bleached white? p-)
We could always burn them black. p-)
...
wait wat

[hank]

Way to go Hollis. Why do the bones have to be bleached white? p-)


i'm glad to see that I've started a punctuation boycott does that make me a grammarist in response to cj its because the honkey that invented clorox was obviously a racist duh i think lawb will do just fine in a battle of wits but don't forget warpig always has a machine gun

hank

[California Joe]

Oh great, now you're e e cummings?

[WARPIG]

Been holding my own just fine Pal and have not found the need to pop smoke and run yet.
Why are you holding your own? You could go blind from that.



Anyway, as much as I'd like to totally hijack this thread..


How is it that Wright is such a huge issue? Wright is a local hero but much too racist for the National stage.

"George Bush doesn't care about black people"~ Kanye West

"'Gangsta rap' was a ploy to convince black people to kill each other. 'Gangsta rap' didn't exist." ~ Alicia Keys

This sort of shock value conspiracy theory rhetoric is simply all the rage. Sort of a *** video.. this is how you get publicity.

I'm not saying this is what drives Rev. Wright. But, for sure, he's found that his "wit" is getting him in the limelight. In the mean time, Obama was associating with Wright to get street cred. Now that he's "disowned" Wright, the good reverend can use this hype to create some good publicity among his flock.

Bill Cosby had some rather controversial statements about the black community back in 2004. Look how he was treated. Think Rev. Wright is going to risk his ministry with some hard love? Puhlease. He might as well tell the congregation to remove the crosses they wear and put on the AK47 pendants instead.

[Mordecai]

Could someone please help me out...

I am still having trouble finding the words to the African-American National Anthem. :roll:

Crip

[Laworkerbee]

Why are you holding your own? You could go blind from that.

I have disproved that propaganda from the Catholic church many times over as I should not only be blind but my hands should be gnarled and useless.


Bill Cosby had some rather controversial statements about the black community back in 2004. Look how he was treated. Think Rev. Wright is going to risk his ministry with some hard love? Puhlease. He might as well tell the congregation to remove the crosses they wear and put on the AK47 pendants instead.

Wright no longer cares about his ministry, he has received his payday which includes a new house in an exclusive white community along with a 10 million dollar line of credit :| I posted a picture of the house earlier in this thread.

Has a single reporter questioned him on his craziness yet in regards to his statements about AIDS, 9\11 or any of the other rubbish he spews out? I believe he is being manipulated by the Clinton's along with the coverage to destroy Obama's nomination, they are succeeding.

[Buckeye67]

What this thread needs is a hijack of what african-american chicks we'd like to have ****** intercourse with.

I agree completely.

I'll start:
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9277/marthastewartdb5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Mordecai]

Wrong thread...

[Chulo]

Who here thinks these terrorists are willing to just give up any and all information we are seeking when they are initially interrogated? Those who raised their hands, choke yourselves; you are stealing O2 from the rest of us.

Since many of you seem to be opposed to using waterboarding, what do you suggest as a tactic/means of obtaining the information we are seeking?

I will be first, maybe we could just start offering them a ham sandwich or better yet, a freshly shaved 12 y/o boy. :roll:

Crip


hey.. you took a wrong turn at Photos and went past OT and posted in the wrong thread, i think you want to post here (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=133449), unless we are starting to waterboard people for the color of their skin and we are calling Wright a terrorist

[Lusitania]

Of course the other revolutionaries didn't think Paine was crazy. But the Brits did. Do I really need to explain to you that pre-revolution Paine's lack of partiotism would be in relation to the British Empire?

I guess we'll just disagree on dissent. I think that the 1st A was put in to the BoR to protect this kind of talk - the stuff that most people don't like. If everyone agrees then noone will try to suppress it. But I guess that's just me.

hank

Well do try to explain your comment in regards to:
"So what? Paine was considered a bit of a crazy man in his day. But don't take that and turn it into he's unpatriotic. If he didn't love America he wouldn't want to change it."

Your statements really make little sense, no one would call Paine unpatriotic unless it was obviously in regards to the British Empire, but then you originally said "But don't take that and turn it into he's unpatriotic." If he is a leading revolutionary writer, why would he be viewed unpatriotic amongst colonials? It's a stupid comment to make, it's like me saying, "the British thought George Washington to be a traitor, but don't think he was a traitor to the rebels" (well I would certainly hope not). Your statements are all over the place and yet you insult my intelligence.

The interesting thing about the Alien and Sedition acts however, is that some of the "Founding Fathers" did not disagree with it on the basis of which we would today. Jefferson's main grievance with the bill was not the issue of freedom of speech and the First Amendment, it was simply about whether the government had the power to impose such an act on the states. It wasn't about personal rights, it was simply about the power of the Federal government, some argue that Jefferson was not entirely opposed to the bill in principle, but in power. That right there proves that even the founding fathers didn't know what the heck they wanted in a government, as I said, they were men, men who had agendas like all the rest of us.