So I checked out the SCAR

[BrianT]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/imsoscene/IMG_0453.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/imsoscene/IMG_0455.jpg

I was impressed. One problem I noticed is it's very easy to click to automatic. Automatic is where semi used to be on the M4, and semi is halfway between where semi and safe were on the M4. I'll bet as soon as we jump in a shoot house with these babies, guys will be going auto on targets accidently. Otherwise, the buttstock is highly adjustable, the weight is light, and it feels well designed. I think some guys might hurt themselves with the recipricating charging handle until they're used to it.

Criticism was mixed bag. The weapon is 'complicated' in that it's highly adjustable and ambidextrous, and seemed to have more parts, so some guys seem worried about it, but most were pretty stoked.

Plus some Mk46s were standing by to be inspected so I took a quick snap. Thought you guys would like it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/imsoscene/IMG_0457.jpg

Snipers brought there Mk13s over, I thought you guys might want to see them.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/imsoscene/IMG_0451.jpg

[T3ngu]

Thanks for posting those BrianT

[Some Guy]

Very nice pics. Is there a timeframe for when these are going to actually replace the M4A1? What's the acronym I'm looking for? FUE? IOC?

[SMGLee]

I was impressed. One problem I noticed is it's very easy to click to automatic. Automatic is where semi used to be on the M4, and semi is halfway between where semi and safe were on the M4. I'll bet as soon as we jump in a shoot house with these babies, guys will be going auto on targets accidently. Otherwise, the buttstock is highly adjustable, the weight is light, and it feels well designed. I think some guys might hurt themselves with the recipricating charging handle until they're used to it.

Interesting, that same reason was why the control was changed. they asked for fire control to be half the travel of the std M4 control for better and quicker access to various firing mode...




Plus some Mk46s were standing by to be inspected so I took a quick snap. Thought you guys would like it.


Those are still the MOD0, have you guys received the MOD1s yet?


Awesome pictures, thanks for taking time out to share it with us.

[Ghostryder]

Thank You, Sir

[BrianT]

Interesting, that same reason was why the control was changed. they asked for fire control to be half the travel of the std M4 control for better and quicker access to various firing mode...

Makes sense, but we're just so use to the M4 that it's habit.





Those are still the MOD0, have you guys received the MOD1s yet?


Awesome pictures, thanks for taking time out to share it with us.

I believe they're MOD0s. I'm unaware of ever getting rid of our original inventory. There might be some MOD1s trickled around from MOD0s we broke. I'll go take a look at the side of one tomorrow. What's the difference by the way?

[SMGLee]

Brian,

the biggest noticeable difference is the rail system are reversed. basically they took the MOD0 handguard rail and turn it upside down. so the top rail is now the bottom rail...

[SilentType]

Yeah, I had questioned the decision to go with a reciprocating charging handle, but I guess it was felt that it will be easier to clear malfunctions or use as a forward assist. Obviously had they wanted to go with a non-reciprocating charging handle they could have, but I would love to hear the reasoning behind that more.

With 226 failure/malfunctions out of 10,000 rounds between 10 SCAR L rifles in the US Army's Dust Test I'd be pretty confident in it considering the M4 had almost 8 times as many failures.

For folks interested in seeing instructional videos on field stripping and so forth on the SCAR visit the new USA company website.

[Fireball Sanchez]

Why must you be the screen door to my submarine? rofl

Another reason for me to seriously consider The Big Green [ err... grey now, I suppose] Fantastic shots, better weapons and I'm glad to see you men getting the best that our nation can afford. Are these all 5.56 or are you getting some of the 7.62 as well? Those Mk46 are badass and the AI's even more so.

Again thanks for the info, thank you for your service, and now I need to go back to pondering whether or not to try for an Opt. 40.........

[dave81]

Are those Blood Diamond pants?

Just kidding. Love the "insider" photos. Keep posting them!

[BrianT]

Brian,

the biggest noticeable difference is the rail system are reversed. basically they took the MOD0 handguard rail and turn it upside down. so the top rail is now the bottom rail...
Haha, that's hilarious. A buddy of mine has the Mod1. We used to think it was some ****ed up jerry-rigged Mk46. I figured someone somehow broke the bottom rail or something and they decided to just flip the handrail over. He had a problem getting the KAC pistol grip to attach to the rail because of the way it's shaped. It's got a weird curvature to it. The tango down one worked fine though. Learn something new.

[SMGLee]

That is funny....

I like to know what kind of curve is on that rail, the one I saw was straight...

the TD grip is actually going to be a SOCOM item for the Mk48 and 46....

I even saw a Mk46Mod1 with a SCAR style stock.....


hey, do you have more pics of the Mk46 with the TD grip?

[Masai]

Its still a good weapon, but i dont think it can live up to its internet hype.


give it 5 years of active service and then watch all the OMFG!!! D3LT@ SniperZ jump on the next best thing

[MetroN]

Thanks for posting BrianT.

By the way... giant arms on those guys holding the SCARs, on the second pic. ^^

[goose36]

great pics mate, would love to get my hands on those mk46's. are those AW's 338 or 308?

[Doomsayer]

Are all those weapons "personal weapons" ? By which I mean the soldier always gets the exact same weapon issued after it returned to the armory?

[Royal]

I was impressed. One problem I noticed is it's very easy to click to automatic. Automatic is where semi used to be on the M4, and semi is halfway between where semi and safe were on the M4.

That was one of the things I always disliked about the M16 A1 and A2 - the huge travel between the different settings. I guess that this sorts that problem out.

[ed316]

Cool. Thanx for the pix.

[BrianT]

That is funny....

I like to know what kind of curve is on that rail, the one I saw was straight...

the TD grip is actually going to be a SOCOM item for the Mk48 and 46....

I even saw a Mk46Mod1 with a SCAR style stock.....


hey, do you have more pics of the Mk46 with the TD grip?
I'll take some pics tomorrow. When we got the SOPMOD Block II stuff, they gave us a crap load of tangodown stuff.

[JC0352]

Great stuff! Thanks for posting.

[Hispeed1]

Thanks for posting, please post more!

[SilentType]

Its still a good weapon, but i dont think it can live up to its internet hype.


give it 5 years of active service and then watch all the OMFG!!! D3LT@ SniperZ jump on the next best thing

If you're lucky yeah in five years there will be something better out.

Probably the reason you wont see Big Army jump on a new rifle until something like caseless ammo or big leap comes forward.

[Ghostryder]

I'll take some pics tomorrow. When we got the SOPMOD Block II stuff, they gave us a crap load of tangodown stuff.

This is shaping up to be quite a thread.

Thanks Brian, for lifting the veil on a lot of this cool stuff.

I've got another Q in the 75th thread btw..

[BrianT]

Ok I didn't have my camera, but D co has nothing, but MOD1s now that you told me what they are. At first, I was like, "Who the ****s SAWs are these?" but they didn't have magazine wells, then I noticed the upside down handrail. I guess they decided they needed heat shields and carrying handles. I'll try getting pictures of that curvature I was talking about too.

[SOG]

Very nice pics and posts, thanks!

[BrianT]

Tangodown grip on a mk46 as requested:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/imsoscene/IMG_0458.jpg
Some Mk48 Mod 0s. D co has Mod 1s. The only difference seems to be they made the carrying handle part of the barrel rather than the reciever and as a result had to flip over that rail cover.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/imsoscene/IMG_0459.jpg
I took a visit to D co's arms room to get a picture of the Mod 1. Also with tangodown grip.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/imsoscene/IMG_0461.jpg

Here's that curvature I was talking about.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/imsoscene/IMG_0464.jpg
The KAC grip binds against the center of the rail. Since this curves in, it has a hard time getting a good connection. Not really a problem, but it used to be.

[Commander Shepard]

My wife liked my AR15 so much that I ended up giving it to her. Might as well be a civie SCAR-H that replaces it. :)

BrianT, whats the actual status of the SCAR in terms of being fielded?

[BrianT]

My wife liked my AR15 so much that I ended up giving it to her. Might as well be a civie SCAR-H that replaces it. :)

BrianT, whats the actual status of the SCAR in terms of being fielded?
The guy supposedly said it was suppose to be this last Feb., but they had more issues and it sounded like there was no set date at the moment. Indefinite delay I'm guessing. Apparently the SEALs have been making alot of input on the weapon. They keep changing their minds or someone keeps bringing up a new change.

[Commander Shepard]

The guy supposedly said it was suppose to be this last Feb., but they had more issues and it sounded like there was no set date at the moment. Indefinite delay I'm guessing. Apparently the SEALs have been making alot of input on the weapon. They keep changing their minds or someone keeps bringing up a new change.

Sounds like it might take a while to finalize the design. Do you think the thing might get scrapped? Seems nowadays any delay, no matter how small, can kill a project.

[goose36]

please sir, can i have more.....

[Riceball]

Are all those weapons "personal weapons" ? By which I mean the soldier always gets the exact same weapon issued after it returned to the armory?

I'd imagine that they are, it makes sense when you think of it. It would be kind of a pain to spend all sorts of time at the range getting it zeroed only to have to re-zero the next time you're at the range or in the field because you don't get same weapon back twice.

[mikec62001]

If the FN SCAR is designed for specific use by USSOCOM units especailly the SEALs...does that mean the weapon works fine after being submerged in water including sea water, sand, dirt etc similar to that of the H&K 416 without the weapon from jamming or blowing up?

[SMGLee]

If the FN SCAR is designed for specific use by USSOCOM units especailly the SEALs...does that mean the weapon works fine after being submerged in water including sea water, sand, dirt etc similar to that of the H&K 416 without the weapon from jamming or blowing up?


YES.....

And that HK tst was done with the ejection port door closed, i could have done the same sand bury test with my std M4.....bubt HK is still the best M4 system on the market, that test just hadmarketing written all over it.

[G36GB]

That is funny....

I even saw a Mk46Mod1 with a SCAR style stock.....




Pictures of that bad boy?

[Ghostryder]

Pictures of that bad boy?

word
123456io

[SilentType]

I like the HK416, but it's a day late and a dollar short if you ask me in terms of the competition that is coming out. Would much rather have the SCAR with it's toolless modularity,ambi features, and higher scores in the US Army "Dust Test."

[Seraphim]

I like the HK416, but it's a day late and a dollar short if you ask me in terms of the competition that is coming out. Would much rather have the SCAR with it's toolless modularity,ambi features, and higher scores in the US Army "Dust Test."

And you do know that it was one HK416 that incurred majority of the malfunctions.

[mikec62001]

And you do know that it was one HK416 that incurred majority of the malfunctions.

If that is the case I still don't understand why the H&K 416 weapon seems so popular among SOF units....a large majority of these units seem to be adopting the 416 as it's primary assault rifle....If the SCAR has more advantages than the H&K 416 then I'd assume this would be the choice of these units.

[REMOV]

The answer is simple - the FN SCAR is manufactured and offered only for US forces due to the FN Herstal-US government agreement while the H&K HK416 is offered for everyone. Hard to say, when the SCAR will be offered to the other buyers, maybe around 2012?

[mikec62001]

The answer is simple - the FN SCAR is manufactured and offered only for US forces due to the FN Herstal-US government agreement while the H&K HK416 is offered for everyone. Hard to say, when the SCAR will be offered to the other buyers, maybe around 2012?

I can understand that..but SOCOM Tier 1 units seem to have adopted the 416 instead of going for the SCAR...I assumed the 416 was better than the SCAR which was why they had gone for the 416 instead of the SCAR...but as a few people have said the SCAR seems to be better...more reliable...cheaper and has a better user freindly setup than the 416

[REMOV]

why they had gone for the 416 instead of the SCARThe answer is also simple, the SCAR was unavailable then. This is governmental R&D program, connected with all the lab and field test which takes a long time, and the HK416 was available right away - it is just a M4 upgrade. You should remember that the first contract for purchasing 21,000 SCARs for US SOCOM was signed only December 2007. Besides the humans are creatures of habit and for the SOCOM guys the HK416 is closer to the ol' good M4/M16 than the SCAR.

[mikec62001]

The answer is also simple, the SCAR was unavailable then. This is governmental R&D program, connected with all the lab and field test which takes a long time, and the HK416 was available right away - it is just a M4 upgrade. You should remember that the first contract for purchasing 21,000 SCARs for US SOCOM was signed only December 2007. Besides the humans are creatures of habit and for the SOCOM guys the HK416 is closer to the ol' good M4/M16 than the SCAR.

Thanks for answers to my questions :o)

[muttbutt]

Thanks Brian...this thread is one of those reasons I love milphotos

[mikec62001]

I found these pics...I don't think they are Airsoft as they are from the FNH USA site

[venom]

nice pics and info; thanks.

is that tan "lazer" the new US Anpeq?

[KEEPER0311]

Besides the humans are creatures of habit and for the SOCOM guys the HK416 is closer to the ol' good M4/M16 than the SCAR.
And that is probably the main reason behind it. Teaching a whole weapons system to the whole Socom, would be a bitch, and these guys are into their rituals and habits.

[Anthony91]

Wow, great pictures!

Thank you for posting them on here for us!

[Jippo]

And that is probably the main reason behind it. Teaching a whole weapons system to the whole Socom, would be a bitch, and these guys are into their rituals and habits.

Well, don't you think that the top infantrymen of the US couldn't manage to learn a new weapon? The whole learning a new platform issue is exaggarated as it is part of Colt/HK marketing/propaganda/M4-hype.

It is not rocket science after all.

[muttbutt]

Well, don't you think that the top infantrymen of the US couldn't manage to learn a new weapon? The whole learning a new platform issue is exaggarated as it is part of Colt/HK marketing/propaganda/M4-hype.

It is not rocket science after all.
No but it is muscle memory, most of the higher end guy's go through their weapons drills thousands of times to get it down to an almost completly automatic reflex, you have to go through a relearning process to get it back, so many don't want/like to.

[Jippo]

No but it is muscle memory, most of the higher end guy's go through their weapons drills thousands of times to get it down to an almost completly automatic reflex, you have to go through a relearning process to get it back, so many don't want/like to.

So what? Let's stick to stick & stones so nobody needs to learn.

I have done thousands of repetitions to master couple of firearms, yet I have not magically become unable to use other types. Learning a new rifle is easy in general, and scar is very similar ergonomically to AR.

[SilentType]

No but it is muscle memory, most of the higher end guy's go through their weapons drills thousands of times to get it down to an almost completly automatic reflex, you have to go through a relearning process to get it back, so many don't want/like to.

The SCAR-L Controls are very similiar to the M4/M16 in terms of the bolt release and mag release so where it counts for speed the SCAR L doesn't require too much change in terms of muscle memory at all.

There has been nothing that hasn't been done to the exact specs of SOCOM here. This rifle has been tested and evaluated more so than any rifle in the last few decades. They went through four generations of various tweaks in design to arrive at the final product.

Don't forget that the modularity is also vastly superior to the HK or Colt Rifle. That means a reduced logstical footprint for guys that want to travel light.

The SCAR is a hell of a firearm and I'm picking up a SCAR L in semi-auto only this year when they hit the market for sure.

[Power_serj]

No but it is muscle memory, most of the higher end guy's go through their weapons drills thousands of times to get it down to an almost completly automatic reflex, you have to go through a relearning process to get it back, so many don't want/like to.

They can phase in a new weapon system the same way the Israelis are phasing out the M4 with the Tavor: Give the new recruits the new weapons while the old soldiers keep the old weapons. It sounds "not fair" but if you're worried about muscle memory, that's probably best. Either that, or they can create a week training course to get used to the new weapon.

[James]

Well, don't you think that the top infantrymen of the US couldn't manage to learn a new weapon? The whole learning a new platform issue is exaggarated as it is part of Colt/HK marketing/propaganda/M4-hype.

I'd have to agree with that... I wasn't around, but the historical record seems to agree with your statement - there weren't too many gripes about learning to use the M1 Garand, for example, after being familiar with the M1903, or moving from the M14 to the M16. Give someone a good class, let them go to the range and get some trigger time, and things will be fine. It isn't like guys will be getting a completely new weapon that they've never even seen, then get sent out to do something half an hour later...


No but it is muscle memory, most of the higher end guy's go through their weapons drills thousands of times to get it down to an almost completly automatic reflex, you have to go through a relearning process to get it back, so many don't want/like to.

Muscles don't have memory, they just do what the brain tells them to.

Dealing with different weapons systems isn't as difficult (IMO) as many people tend to think, especially after you have acquired a fair amount of broad experience. Many military (and especially SF) guys tend to enjoy shooting different weapons, and are very good with a variety of them. If someone is already an expert with, say, an M14, M16/M4, AK family, M240, M249, PKM, etc. why would it be so difficult to learn another? That's part of the reason they're "Special".

[Seiran]

I have to say that the SCAR at first I wasn't interested in. But as of lately I've really come around and just like the Masada, I'm anxious to see about getting my hands on the Civi version when it's made available.

Also, thanks for the great photos mate. Much appreciated.

[dave81]

Hey Brian, how accurate is this?
(Action figure pic):
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/4944/368dsc1627a3x4xt1.jpghttp://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2425/368dsc2075amk16wgrenadevv7.jpghttp://img84.imageshack.us/img84/3986/368dsc1997cirasvest3x4un1.jpg

[3rdMillhouse]

Hey Brian, how accurate is this?
(Action figure pic):
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/4944/368dsc1627a3x4xt1.jpghttp://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2425/368dsc2075amk16wgrenadevv7.jpghttp://img84.imageshack.us/img84/3986/368dsc1997cirasvest3x4un1.jpg

Damn, I want one of those. I want it bad.

[Jippo]

Hey Brian, how accurate is this?
(Action figure pic):
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/4944/368dsc1627a3x4xt1.jpghttp://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2425/368dsc2075amk16wgrenadevv7.jpghttp://img84.imageshack.us/img84/3986/368dsc1997cirasvest3x4un1.jpg

A doll?! WTF?

How old are you?

[Fiber]

A doll?! WTF?

How old are you?

It's not a doll! It's an ACTION FIGURE!!

:D

[kinney_bmx]

nice pics and info; thanks.

is that tan "lazer" the new US Anpeq?
Yeah The AN-PEQ 15 IIRC

[kinney_bmx]

BrianT,
Have you got any experience with those new Elcan DRs? they seem like pretty nice optics.

If for any reason you cant answer that I understand.

[Kilo1-1]

Awesome pics of the guns...thanks for sharing BrianT.

Huh, I just noticed it now, you're 75th RR?
Edit: Nevermind, if I don't know, I probably don't need to p-).