U.S., Israel ties steeped in controversy

[SOG]

This is nothing new, but I thought it made some interesting points about the amount of aid, the result of the aid in both economies and the result of the aid from the view of other countries in the ME.


U.S., Israel ties steeped in controversy

Country is largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid

Peter Goodspeed, National Post Published: Friday, May 02, 2008

The United States was the first country to recognize Israel, just minutes after it declared its independence in 1948, but it took Washington nearly 20 years before it began to provide Israel with military aid.

Since then, the relationship between the two countries has grown to become one of the closest and most controversial alliances in history.

A combination of Cold War calculus, which drove the United States to oppose Soviet-armed Arab states, united with an authentic friendship and admiration of Israel to forge a bond that has never been broken.

For some evangelical Christians, the alliance is a union of two promised lands - the biblical land of Moses and a superpower that claims to be "One Nation Under God."

Today, Israel is the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid in the world, having received nearly US$140-billion in direct military and economic assistance since 1973.

This year's U.S. budget alone calls for $2.42-billion in U.S. aid to Israel, including $2.38-billion in military aid and $39.6-million in assistance for the resettlement of refugees.

Israel receives that aid on better terms than any other nation in the world.

For example, Israel can use up to 25% of its U.S. military assistance for purchases from Israeli manufacturers and it gets most of its foreign assistance from Washington in one lump sum early in the year, instead of in instalments, like all other aid recipients.

When this year's budget was passed, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, the leading pro-Israel U.S. lobby group, confidently declared: "The U.S.-Israel relationship is the keystone of America's policy in the Middle East, and our enduring partnership with our democratic ally Israel is one of our nation's key strategic assets."

During the Cold War, former U.S. Secretary of State Alexander Haig described Israel as the largest U.S. aircraft carrier in the world, noting it couldn't be sunk, does not carry a single U.S. soldier and is located in a critical region for U.S. national security.

More recently, Democratic presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton responded without hesitation, when asked during a televised debate what she would do if Iran ever made a nuclear attack on Israel: "If I'm the president, we will attack Iran. We would be able to totally obliterate them."

Critics in both countries have raised concerns over the longstanding alliance, arguing it limits each country's room to manoeuvre in their own national interest.

Yuval Levin, of the Jerusalem-based Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies, has argued that U.S. aid to Israel has slowed economic growth by bloating government spending. With 70% of Israel's GDP coming from government spending and a third of the Israeli workforce on the public payroll, Mr. Yuval says Israelis are living beyond their means and can only do so because of American aid.

In the United States, political scientists John Mearsheimer, of the University of Chicago, and Stephen Walt, of Harvard, created a political storm when they argued that the United States has set aside its own security interests to advance those of Israel.

Israel is a liability in the war on terror, they argued in The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy, saying unwavering U.S. support for Israel has inflamed Arab and Islamic opinion against Washington.

When their arguments were widely attacked and criticized, the two authors replied: "Anyone who criticizes Israel's actions or argues that pro-Israel groups have significant influence over U.S. Middle East policy stands a good chance of being labelled an anti-Semite."

Has aid to Israel made Israels Government too large and overbearing? What happens if that aid dries up or goes down? I know Israel isn't totally dependant on the aid but it has to be significant? Do the negatives outweigh some of the positives in the ME?

oops, almost forgot link: http://www.financialpost.com/related/links/story.html?id=490435

[vinny_121_ND]

What happens if that aid dries up or goes down?

I doubt that aid will ever dry up or go down. There are many powerful people in the US government who will make sure Israel has all the funds it needs to ensure its protection against its surrounding enemies. The only way I can see that aid ever going down if America was in serious financial trouble.

[Snoshi]

I doubt that aid will ever dry up or go down. There are many powerful people in the US government who will make sure Israel has all the funds it needs to ensure its protection against its surrounding enemies. The only way I can see that aid ever going down if America was in serious financial trouble.

Most of the aid end up in the pockets of US companies anyways.

[SOG]

That's exactly what I was wondering about. What if we go into a hard recession or something? Will we really keep monetary aid going to so many countries in trying times?

Also I've never really thought about it too deep, but is our aid to Israel really a large point of contention against us in the Middle East? I know we give aid to several other countries but is our aid seen as a huge betrayal or is it really hurting us with the common public in the ME?

You have certain factors in the ME which naturally build against us. Israel seems to be that dominating factor. Are other countries seen the very same way as we are in the ME? France, Germany, China, Russia? Many other countries have developments, business projects etc in the ME, are they looked on as badly as us?

Well as of late I understand the hate but before, not really unless linked with Israel. We had some issues here and there like with Iran but hardly deserving of ME wide condemnation.

Anyway I just thought it was interesting and was wondering since we can't not be friends with Israel, what else could be done if anything can...


Most of the aid end up in the pockets of US companies anyways.

True, or Israeli run US Companies. Ahhh... Either way a lot of money is zipping back and forth. I don't mean to shed an attitude like Israel is just some leech, I know the benefits, I am just questioning the negative from this arrangement.

[IDF_TANKER]

That's exactly what I was wondering about. What if we go into a hard recession or something? Will we really keep monetary aid going to so many countries in trying times?

Also I've never really thought about it too deep, but is our aid to Israel really a large point of contention against us in the Middle East? I know we give aid to several other countries but is our aid seen as a huge betrayal or is it really hurting us with the common public in the ME?

You have certain factors in the ME which naturally build against us. Israel seems to be that dominating factor. Are other countries seen the very same way as we are in the ME? France, Germany, China, Russia? Many other countries have developments, business projects etc in the ME, are they looked on as badly as us?

Well as of late I understand the hate but before, not really unless linked with Israel. We had some issues here and there like with Iran but hardly deserving of ME wide condemnation.

Anyway I just thought it was interesting and was wondering since we can't not be friends with Israel, what else could be done if anything can...

Man, not to flame or something, but after you fought like three wars in this region in the last decade or so and occupying like couple of countries I think the Israeli contribution to the hatered toward US is rather a humble one.
US has a very long history of involvement in this region and historically it has very little to do with the Israel. There are simply much more powerfull factors and interests than Israel( and the whole Israeli lobby) defining the US politicy in this region. I suggest you to read Robert Baer's "Sleeping with the Devil" (http://www.amazon.com/Sleeping-Devil-Washington-Saudi-Crude/dp/1400050219) (which, BTW, is not somebody you would call friend of Israel). After reading this book you will consider all the Israeli "negative" influence on the US politics hardly a minor inconvenience.

P.S. Here is my post I made in another similar discussion:


I would like to suggest you a slightly different perspective on the matters.I shall explain.

This is not secret to anybody that the main interest of US in the Middle East is concentrated around the most important strategic economical (and military) asset - the Oil. Thus ever since the US become dependant on the ME oil (the second half of the last century) the main goal of the US policy in the ME was to secure the region to keep oil (spice:)) flow. You can explain almost all major conflicts in the ME(maybe excluding the Israel wars to some extent) from this perspective. Therefore, the US policy was always directed to maintain the balance of powers in ME, especially around the holy grail - yes, you guessed right - Saudi Arabia.

To name only the few main such conflicts: the war in Afghanistan(no, the Soviet one), when US helped Afghans against Soviets(using Saudi money) because it was believed that Soviet Afghanistan will endanger Saudis; the Iran-Iraq war, when US helped the both sides against each other because US wasn't interested in the new emerging ME superpower which will dominate the region(whether it Iran or Iraq);the first and second gulf wars. Did I forget something..?

The relationships between Israel and US are the two-side street, which means that whilst Israel has some impact on the US foreign policy, the opposite even more true - since Israel is completely dependant on the US (militarily, financially and ,especially, politically), US has enormous influence on the Israel policy.

I could argue that Israel was used as geopolitical leverage by both Iran and US in the Great Game they have over domination in the ME. I could also argue that the last Lebanon war was nothing but attempt by US to beat a couple of Iranian cards in this game... Yes, participation in this game was greatly rewarded but also very often directly endangers us(the example is the first gulf war, when Israel being attacked by Iraq was forbidden to defend itself simply because it would heart the US interests with its Arabic members of coalition).

The other part of the reality that you very conveniently ignore for some reason is the Saudi influence in Washington. If you are talking about AIPAC, why not about prince Bendar then(Bendar-Bush - reng a bell..?)? Practically every member of Bush administration being in the Oil Business, my humble guess is that Saudis are not less relevant than AIPAC in this context...

If you pretend to have an objective perception of reality, try to learn the subject from every possible angle. Your agenda seems to affect your judgement...

Cordially yours,
IDF_TANKER

[SOG]

Man, not to flame or something, but after you fought like three wars in this region in the last decade or so and occupying like couple of countries I think the Israeli contribution to the hatered toward US is rather a humble one.
US has a very long history of involvement in this region and historically it has very little to do with the Israel. There are simply much more powerfull factors and interests than Israel( and the whole Israeli lobby) defining the US politicy in this region. I suggest you to read Robert Baer's "Sleeping with the Devil" (http://www.amazon.com/Sleeping-Devil-Washington-Saudi-Crude/dp/1400050219) (which, BTW, is not somebody you would call friend of Israel). After reading this book you will consider all the Israeli "negative" influence on the US politics hardly a minor inconvenience.

P.S. Here is my post I made in another similar discussion:

No big deal, but in my post my point was, why the ME aggression towards the US pre 911.

IE what I said earlier:
Well as of late I understand the hate but before, not really unless linked with Israel. We had some issues here and there like with Iran but hardly deserving of ME wide condemnation.

I understand that Gulf War 1, Afghanistan and Iraq stirred up the hornets nest. I understand that. What I don't understand was the hate before that. In fact you could even remove GW1 from that list. We did that along with many others in the ME and Iran was an enemy of Iraq so I don't see how that could possibly be bad. So my question of curiosity still remains: How much flak are we truly getting from supporting Israel. This crap started waaaay before GW Junior got into office. Decades old.

It has to come from somewhere. I also don't buy the sole reasoning that it stems from business interests in the region. Hell, tons of western companies have business, they aren't viewed the same as America.

Obviously a boatload of countries in the ME hate Israel. And I think we pick up some of that flak as heavy supporters. I'm not saying we are wrong for supporting Israel but I would like something to be done about the view those have of us in helping Israel. If that can be done. To me it is a clear issue, I'm wondering if there is a cure so to speak. A way of further easing the view, other then not starting multiple wars in the ME.

[kahn267]

The fact of the matter is..... the US needs Israel as much as Israel needs the US.
Put military aside, the amount of US companies that benefit from Israeli expertise is phenomenal. Furthermore the advances in technology by Israel is crazy too and the US is always the first to obtain it

[LRPV]

SOG.

Do you have a flash-drive or pen drive? You know, those little portable drives that you plug into a USB port? An Israeli invented that gem. Between the US and Israel hi-tech exchange is booming and growing, it's a mutualism.

As for regional resolutions, forget it. You can be the nicest guy on the block and you will still get shafted. I detest Anaconda Rice, but even as an ex-oil executive she can't pull a peace deal together. As an American you have to accept that even with demonstrated goodwill some groups will always refuse to accept anything other than their doctrine.

If Americans have a problem, it is that they are too generous to those that will not negotiate with them. I do not support Rice, but I understand she is in the near east every 3 weeks working on a peace solution. Each time a certain group move the goal posts...

[IDF_TANKER]

No big deal, but in my post my point was, why the ME aggression towards the US pre 911.

IE what I said earlier:

I understand that Gulf War 1, Afghanistan and Iraq stirred up the hornets nest. I understand that. What I don't understand was the hate before that. In fact you could even remove GW1 from that list. We did that along with many others in the ME and Iran was an enemy of Iraq so I don't see how that could possibly be bad. So my question of curiosity still remains: How much flak are we truly getting from supporting Israel. This crap started waaaay before GW Junior got into office. Decades old.

It has to come from somewhere. I also don't buy the sole reasoning that it stems from business interests in the region. Hell, tons of western companies have business, they aren't viewed the same as America.

Obviously a boatload of countries in the ME hate Israel. And I think we pick up some of that flak as heavy supporters. I'm not saying we are wrong for supporting Israel but I would like something to be done about the view those have of us in helping Israel. If that can be done. To me it is a clear issue, I'm wondering if there is a cure so to speak. A way of further easing the view, other then not starting multiple wars in the ME.

Man, unless you are going to conduct some sort of a survey amongst ME residents about the question why exactly they hate US more Israel or something else, we can only speculate... I can imagine that for an American it is kinda a wishful thinking to blame somebody outside (Israel or perhaps somebody else) in the American problems in the ME. Israel definitely doesn't contribute to better political condition of US in ME, but from here till being the main cause of hatred towards US is a very long distance.

Let's for a second ignore the last Iraq and Afghanistan war and talk about the pre-9/11 period as you suggested. Let's for a second consider pre-90's cold-war period. Don't forget that ME was a very not cold battle field between US and USSR. And in this battle field US earned itself enemies constituting a very large chunk of ME - Egypt, Syria, Iraq... all of them being the USSR "brother peoples". Later it became Iran (after Islamic Revolution in 1978-9), than it spread through the Iran supported Shia militias in Lebanon (although Israel was a major factor in Hezbollah history, but it's history really starts with the start of the presence of Iranian Pasdaran in Lebanon right after Islamic Revolution)...

But the starting point of the ME antagonism towards US is really the USSR-Afghanistan war, which gave birth to the modern Jihadist movement sweeping all of the ME, creating a new radical religious/political ideology. The rest as they say is the history...

BTW, do you know what is the only country in ME where Al-Qaida did not commit any terrorist attack? Take a wild guess.p-)

[Atlantic Friend]

BTW, do you know what is the only country in ME where Al-Qaida did not commit any terrorist attack? Take a wild guess.p-)

Did AQ ever attacked Syria ? Or Jordan ? Can't remember about Jordan, but Syria, I think I'm pretty sure they never attacked...

[Mr.Flint]

Did AQ ever attacked Syria ? Or Jordan ? Can't remember about Jordan, but Syria, I think I'm pretty sure they never attacked...
Yes on both cases

[Atlantic Friend]

Yes on both cases

Damn my bad memory ! When did AQ attack Syria ?

[Mr.Flint]

Damn my bad memory ! When did AQ attack Syria ?
Just out of the top of my head, there was that incident when they tried to storm the American embassy (or was it a consulate?) and there was a firefight where everyone died...
i think there is a thread on it somwhere on the forum... 2006 i think it was.

[tanks_alot]

Actualy, Al Qaeda has fired a rocket from Jordan into Eilat in 2005:


The claim of responsibility, dated Tuesday and posted on web sites and distributed by e-mail, said al Qaeda in Iraq -- believed headed by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi -- waited to issue its claim until its fighter had returned safely to Iraq.


There were no injuries among the nearly 4,000 sailors or Marines aboard the U.S. vessels. But one rocket struck a Jordanian military warehouse, killing a Jordanian soldier and severely wounding another. Another rocket landed in the neighboring Israeli port of Eilat, but injured no one.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/23/jordan.attack.alqaeda/index.html