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LEB101
05-14-2008, 02:53 PM
Interesting how Sunni Lebanese are against the Hezbollah because its Shia. The Lebanese government first want to cut the communication lines of the Hizbollah and now cries that the latter is not accepting this. They have completely forgotten that the Hezbollah, Shia or not is the only Lebanese force able to deal with Israel which has already once invaded Lebanon.

Disarming the Hizbollah or cutting their communication network would be ok if the Lebanese government would be competent enough to buy even one single anti-aircraft battery for the army to protect Beirut against Israeli planes violating the national airspace at will. But that’s not the case, the Lebanese army is poorly equipped and in no way able to do the slightest thing against an Israeli or even Syrian invasion.

As long the Lebanese army is left in this poor state by the government, provocative acts like trying to cut Hezbollah ability to communicate won’t be accepted by the Hezbollah.
lebanon would have already made peace with israel is hezbollah was not in the war . so letting hezbollah keep there weapons is like inviting israel in to come take them . so basically no hezbollah weapons = no more fighting with israel

LEB101
05-14-2008, 02:57 PM
@tanks_alot



Once Lebanon has a serous army it becomes dangerous for Israel. Not because it wants to attack Israel but because Israel’s is the military master of the region and wants to remain so. If Lebanon was powerful and a united Arab nationalist state back in the past it would have participated as part of the Arab armies against Israel.
That’s just realistic.



Always the same argument... Once again it’s simple: If Hezbollah were not an organisation with a strong religious component, beside its nationalistic one, it would not see Israel as enemy. Never forget that Israel took away the land of their fellow Muslim brothers, therefore they have to be against Israel. Therefore it’s not Iran which says that they have to be against Israel but the religious component within their purely Lebanese organisation.



Poor argument, Hezbollah is not running the government in Lebanon. If the Lebanese government starts with one commando unit and expands gradually, even only with defensive weapons like SAM batteries it will become a force which can't be taken over by Hezbollah simply because it’s strong.
It seems that you fear that the personnel of the Army would not follow commands of the government but that of the Hezbollah; in this case you have to agree that the Hezbollah is pretty popular among Lebanese. So beside the army being toothless it’s also Lebanese enough to ignore orders which would harm Lebanese defence capability. The US Marine Corps might not attack and destroy the USAF nuclear force because a communist US President says so, especially not in the light of a Neo-Soviet Unition ;)



Iran is not a rich brother-country of Lebanon; it just provides the Hezbollah with some money and support because it’s the only Shia state in the world and has some kind of responsibility for other Shias around the world.



That’s the point, in contrary to Israel; Lebanon has not a united and strong government of one religion protected by a very powerful military.



Amal, Hezbollah and even Christian, Druze and Sunni groups had taken action against a provocative act of the unpopular government, a decision to weak the Hezbollah which is the only serous force in Lebanon.
my freind this is not the argument for you . you dont know anything about lebanon .it is israels intrest for the LAF to be strong and not for them to be weak beacuse a weak LAf allows for thugs like hezbollah to take over

LebaneseMeghwar
05-14-2008, 03:19 PM
god bless our country. am back after having to leave my house cause of the last incidents... ill post pictures of my house in beirut after the attacks ( they thought beirut was kyrat shoumana). God bless lebanon....

LEB101
05-14-2008, 03:20 PM
god bless our country. am back after having to leave my house cause of the last incidents... ill post pictures of my house in beirut after the attacks ( they thought beirut was kyrat shoumana). God bless lebanon....
yes i think they lost there way to tel aviv

Laworkerbee
05-14-2008, 03:45 PM
god bless our country. am back after having to leave my house cause of the last incidents... ill post pictures of my house in beirut after the attacks ( they thought beirut was kyrat shoumana). God bless lebanon....

Good to hear you are ok.

Snoshi
05-14-2008, 03:46 PM
Good to hear you are ok.

X2.. I wondered where he was.

khukuri
05-14-2008, 04:02 PM
god bless our country. am back after having to leave my house cause of the last incidents... ill post pictures of my house in beirut after the attacks ( they thought beirut was kyrat shoumana). God bless lebanon....

Nice to see you back ya lebnanee.

I still remember beirut as one of the few places in the middleast I would live in again.


Somehow I think Hariri got the Hezb in a good trap they couldnt get out of. He made a political attempt to start some form of disarmanent and they responded like a mafia. He made them turn their arms against the people and show that they were just like any other militia.

I think hariri have managed a severe political blow to hezbollah without really doing much. He managed to expose what many feared but didnt want to believe.


Well hopefully Lebnan can have peace, Shiites, sunnis, druzes and christians.

frenchy
05-14-2008, 04:03 PM
Lebanon set to cancel anti-Hezbollah measures

http://www.*******.com/resources/r/?m=02&d=20080514&t=2&i=4256088&w=192&r=2008-05-14T151317Z_01_L13383311_RTRUKOP_0_PICTURE0



http://www.*******.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1338331120080514

what a band of cowards !!!

The hezbollah can do all he wants.

LEB101
05-14-2008, 04:06 PM
what a band of cowards !!!

The hezbollah can do all he wants.
hezbollah can do what he wants until the lebanese people stop litening to there leaders and take up arms against hezbollah then no one is a winner

-=P=-
05-14-2008, 04:12 PM
@tanks_alot


The days of Arabs countries launching conventional wars against Israel is over, at least for the near future, claiming that Lebanon could become powerful enough to threat Israel strategically is absurd when the gap between Israel and far bigger, stronger and richer Arab states combined, is still very substantial. the Lebanese should try to attain some more immediate and reasonable goals.


Not that your point is relevant, what do the past wars between the Arab coalitions to Israel have to do with this subject? the question is not how strong Lebanon is, but wheter it will continue to provoke Israel into conflicts.

Again, they don't plan to attack Israel and will never have a nearly equal military. But if they do it will get a dangerous factor for Israel like Hezbollah is now (even though Hezbollah is a defensive force).


Try to follow me here, Hezballah is popular in Lebanon for two reasons, the first is because they stood up to Israel and the second is because they have provided many civilian services to the Shia population. none of which could have been possible without Iran's funding. Hezballah is not a state (yet), they have no serious income, therefore they rely on Iran and Syria for their training, equipment and the money for the services they provide in order to gain support and popularity.

Which means that if they will ever try to reach some sort of compromise with Israel, Iran will stop providing for them, they will have no more money for their training and equipment which posts them in the top of the Lebanese militia's food chain and they will have no more money for schools, hosptials, all sort of networks etc' which makes them more popular then say, Amal.

And what that means for the Lebanese is that Hezballah simply has no interest to ever stop fighting against Israel. if they will choose Hezballah, it means they choose war.

Its even simpler, Hezbollah cant stop viewing Israel as enemy because they wouldn't be regarded as Muslim (Shia) anymore.


Nonsense, as it stands now, pound for pound the LAF is already stronger in both equipment and manpower, than Hezballah. you are comparing a regular army with a small miltia that mostly fights from defensive position.

They fight irregular that’s their strength. They have militias and professionals.



Second, you are ignoring the fact that the LAF is composed from all of the different Lebanese sects and if as a result of the LAF's conduct during these minor clashes, 40 officers who support the government have put in their resignations. think what would happen during a full fledge civil war, the army will split, regardless if it will support the government or Hezballah. and any fancy equipment that might have been provided to the LAF will reach the militias, so again, why should anyone provide them with fancy weapons?

How about reforming the Lebanese army and provide them with some defensive weapons at least. If not no one will believe that the LAF is anything more than a police force used to defend the government against the militias.


Exactly, well sort off, there is a Sunni-Shia war raging in the Muslim world and Lebanon is simply another battlefield in it and Hezballah is Iran's pawn in it. the recent conflicts will only cause the Sunni Al Qaeda to reinforce itself in Lebanon and instead of putting up a strong front against the evil Zionists, it's far more likely that Iran's involment in helping just one sect inside Lebanon, instead of all of it, will just eventually drag Lebanon into yet another civil war and further weaken it.

AQ may want a Shia Sunni war, but until now Iran has just provided support for Lebanese Shias which country was invaded by Israel. Additionally Shias against Saddam Hussain and maybe Hazaras against Taliban. Not directly a Sunni, Shia war.


Can you really blame those that oppose Hezballah inside Lebanon? they see it just as a foriegn pawn as we do in Israel.

Yes I can, because the Hizbollah is too independent and Lebanese to be simply an Iranian (or Syrians if it suits) tool. Every Lebanese who believes in Lebanon and not the protocols of the elders of Qom and other stories must realize that until the LAF is not capable of defending the country against external threats, Hezbollah will remain the only force able to do this.

LEB101
05-14-2008, 04:19 PM
@tanks_alot



Again, they don't plan to attack Israel and will never have a nearly equal military. But if they do it will get a dangerous factor for Israel like Hezbollah is now (even though Hezbollah is a defensive force).



Its even simpler, Hezbollah cant stop viewing Israel as enemy because they wouldn't be regarded as Muslim (Shia) anymore.



They fight irregular that’s their strength. They have militias and professionals.



How about reforming the Lebanese army and provide them with some defensive weapons at least. If not no one will believe that the LAF is anything more than a police force used to defend the government against the militias.



AQ may want a Shia Sunni war, but until now Iran has just provided support for Lebanese Shias which country was invaded by Israel. Additionally Shias against Saddam Hussain and maybe Hazaras against Taliban. Not directly a Sunni, Shia war.



Yes I can, because the Hizbollah is too independent and Lebanese to be simply an Iranian (or Syrians if it suits) tool. Every Lebanese who believes in Lebanon and not the protocols of the elders of Qom and other stories must realize that until the LAF is not capable of defending the country against external threats, Hezbollah will remain the only force able to do this.
go to school . it would do wonders in your life if you did

LEB101
05-14-2008, 04:22 PM
@tanks_alot



Again, they don't plan to attack Israel and will never have a nearly equal military. But if they do it will get a dangerous factor for Israel like Hezbollah is now (even though Hezbollah is a defensive force).



Its even simpler, Hezbollah cant stop viewing Israel as enemy because they wouldn't be regarded as Muslim (Shia) anymore.



They fight irregular that’s their strength. They have militias and professionals.



How about reforming the Lebanese army and provide them with some defensive weapons at least. If not no one will believe that the LAF is anything more than a police force used to defend the government against the militias.



AQ may want a Shia Sunni war, but until now Iran has just provided support for Lebanese Shias which country was invaded by Israel. Additionally Shias against Saddam Hussain and maybe Hazaras against Taliban. Not directly a Sunni, Shia war.



Yes I can, because the Hizbollah is too independent and Lebanese to be simply an Iranian (or Syrians if it suits) tool. Every Lebanese who believes in Lebanon and not the protocols of the elders of Qom and other stories must realize that until the LAF is not capable of defending the country against external threats, Hezbollah will remain the only force able to do this.
hezbollah always says the army cant defend us we can defend us .. then why dont they freaking join in with the army like people tell them then the army will be able to protect them . but if they do then they will be defying there daddy iran and there mommy syria . they are not a real reaisitance if they were they would join the army and make the army strong enough to defne lebanon .. but this shows there true colors the colors of iran and syria

LEB101
05-14-2008, 05:45 PM
hezbollah claimed all the amal and hezbollah thugs in beirut were from beirut but today 4 of them were buried . In the south 70km from beirut

abe87
05-14-2008, 06:30 PM
BEIRUT (*******) - Lebanon's government cancelled measures on Wednesday that angered the Iranian-backed Hezbollah movement and triggered the worst internal conflict since the country's 1975-90 civil war.

The U.S.-backed government of Prime Minister Fouad Siniora said in a statement after a meeting that it was taking the step in line with a request by the Lebanese army to preserve civil peace and promote an Arab League mediation effort to end Lebanon's 18-month-old political crisis.

"The cabinet decided to agree on the suggestion of the army commander... which includes the cancellation of the two decisions," the statement, read by Information Minister Ghazi al-Aridi, said.

Shortly after Aridi read the statement Hezbollah supporters fired into the air in a Beirut suburb to celebrate what the group sees as a major blow to the government and its allies.

Rescinding the ban on Hezbollah's communications network and the sacking of Beirut airport's security chief, who is close to the group, were two of Hezbollah's demands to lift its blockade of the airport and its campaign of civil disobedience.

It is also a first step towards easing the broader standoff between Siniora's government and opposition forces that has left Lebanon without a president since November.

At least 81 people have been killed since violence broke out on May 7 following the cabinet decisions against Hezbollah, which routed its rivals in six days of fighting and briefly seized control of parts of Beirut.

U.S. President George W. Bush, in Jerusalem to celebrate the anniversary of Israel's founding in 1948, accused Iran on Wednesday of using the Islamist Shi'ite Hezbollah to destabilize Lebanon. He said: "This is


http://www.*******.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1338331120080514

LEB101
05-14-2008, 06:31 PM
http://www.*******.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1338331120080514
they used that as a way to trap hezbollah . hezbollah can only go down from now on . they used there weapons aginast lebanon and no one is going to forget or forgive

abe87
05-14-2008, 06:34 PM
lebanon would have already made peace with israel is hezbollah was not in the war . so letting hezbollah keep there weapons is like inviting israel in to come take them . so basically no hezbollah weapons = no more fighting with israel


Didn't Sanioura say Lebanon would be the last "arab country" to make a peace deal with Israel? :o

LEB101
05-14-2008, 06:39 PM
Didn't Sanioura say Lebanon would be the last "arab country" to make a peace deal with Israel? :o
he has to say that if he wants the support of all the arabs .. if he really felt like that he would support hezbollah with all his heart

Mr.Flint
05-14-2008, 06:52 PM
Interesting analysis



Hezbollah's Third Botched Coup Attempt

In three years, since the murder of former PM Rafik Hariri, Hezbollah has attempted three coups -- and failed.

On March 8, 2005, Hezbollah thought that by rallying supporters they would nip the independence movement in the bud, maintain the Syrian occupation of Lebanon, and move on as though nothing happened.

One week later, March 14 happened, in large part as a reaction to Hezbollah's rally. It secured the expulsion of the murderous Assad regime's occupying force.

Then in 2006, with the July war and its aftermath, especially the movement in December 06-January 07.

In their first attempt in January 23-25, Hezbollah tried its coup and relied on Aounist elements. That proved a disaster as the Aounist riffraff were done away with in a matter of hours, ending any prospect of relying on Christian proxies to do Hezbollah's bidding. The Lebanese Forces' Samir Geagea, whose supporters were instrumental in dispersing the Aounists, was the central figure during that coup.

Then came this last attempt, which Nasrallah deliberately placed in parallel to the aftermath of the Hariri assassination: i.e., this was intended to be the official reversal of the independence movement.

After Hezbollah took west Beirut, attacking civilians in their homes, ransacking and terrorizing neighborhoods and media outlets (http://beirut2bayside.blogspot.com/2008/05/terrorists-and-free-media.html), following a conscious decision by Hariri not to put up a fight, the Iranian militia (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3543230,00.html) foolishly thought that it can just as easily overrun Jumblat on his own turf in the Shouf.

Hezbollah had another thing coming. For three days of intensive fighting in the Shouf, and contrary to the lying info ops and disinformation of Hezbollah water carriers like this (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/13/lebanon.israelandthepalestinians) clueless Hezbollah willful tool (on whose propaganda for Hezbollah I've written (http://beirut2bayside.blogspot.com/2007/11/dilettante-journalism.html) in the past and will soon be ripping to shreds once again), not a single village in the Shouf fell to Hezbollah. Not Niha, like that Hezbollah watercarrier MacLeod wrote, not anything.

Quite the contrary. According (http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2008/05/jumblatts-men-s.php) to the PSP and other local sources, more than three dozen Hezbollah fighters were killed and a number of their vehicles were destroyed. The fact that they had to introduce artillery and vehicles (mounted with heavy machine guns, like so (http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/8409/nissantechnicalwithzpu2ou0dotjpg), and recoilless rifles, like so (http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/1541/m151withb10lebanonsk7dotjpg)) only showed that they could not make advances into the villages.

Not just that, but Hezbollah's attack has led Talal Arslan's fighters to switch and fight alongside the PSP against Hezbollah, undermining (http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2008/05/jumblatts-men-s.php) Hezbollah's tiny Druze ally -- which is precisely why Jumblat put him in the forefront from the get go (it was not, as shrill commentators and dishonest flacks read it, a sign of "weakness." It was a shrewed move by a master tactician.).

At the end of the day, the PSP maintained control of the strategic hills of the Barouk to the east and Ras al-Jabal west of Aley, overlooking the Dahiyeh.

And so, Jumblat and the Shouf played a historical role these last few days (and I will have a lengthy post on Jumblat's role in this crisis asap) and have essentially botched Hezbollah's coup.

All the idiotic commentators, from Paul Salem onwards, who talked about a different "political balance" as a result of the fighting, don't and never did know what they're talking about. This is political suicide for Hezbollah, who has already made contacts with Hariri through a third party informing him that they're looking for an exit. They know they're in a jam.

Not just that, now the government is in a position to leverage rescinding its decisions -- which it could never implement to begin with! -- and we're already seeing M14 and government sources expressing that.

For one, all M14 officials -- including Hariri who made a powerful, uncompromising speech yesterday -- are now unanimous about placing the fate of Hezbollah's weapons as the first item on any "dialogue" agenda. Gone are the days of the "sanctity" of the weapons of the "resistance." Minister Joe Sarkis has added that any rescinding of the decisions has to be met by not just a withdrawal of armed men from the streets and the reopening of all roads, but also the evacuation of the tent city in downtown Beirut.

The mere fact that M14 and the government are bartering the rescinding of a decision that was never going to be implemented (and if the government was illegitimate, according to Hezbollah, then why even bother focusing on its decisions and thereby affirm its legitimacy?) suggests, regardless of outcome, that they know that there's no "new balance" advantageous to Hezbollah that forces them to capitulate.

Army Commander Suleiman is now under tons of pressure. Hariri himself criticized the Army's performance, and we know (http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/NewsDesk.nsf/Lebanon/AFE78ECA5EFE83E2C2257449002F44DB?OpenDocument) that 40 senior officers submitted their resignation (which would've split the Army) in protest of Suleiman's handling of the situation (and we also know that criminal pro-Aounist officers were particularly egregious during the crisis). Saudi outlets (http://asharqalawsat.com/leader.asp?section=3&article=470708&issueno=10760) have even criticized the Army's performance, putting more pressure on Suleiman to get his act together if he wants to become president (especially now that any gambit about Hezbollah tilting the balance has failed). The US, which also has leverage through its aid to the Army might also do the same. These kinds of pressures, domestic, regional and international, and Suleiman's susceptibility to them, is why Syria won't take a chance with him. Anyone who doesn't fall and lick Bashar's boots without hesitation at a moment's notice cannot be trusted as far as the murderer of Damascus is concerned, and it's why Syria knows that it must return militarily to Lebanon in order to rule it. Even doing it by proxy, through Hezbollah, hasn't worked.

This is far from over. In fact, this has only just begun.
http://beirut2bayside.blogspot.com/2008/05/hezbollahs-third-botched-coup-attempt.html

LEB101
05-14-2008, 07:02 PM
Interesting analysis


http://beirut2bayside.blogspot.com/2008/05/hezbollahs-third-botched-coup-attempt.html

thats as close as it gets to the truth

One?
05-14-2008, 07:24 PM
hezbollah claimed all the amal and hezbollah thugs in beirut were from beirut but today 4 of them were buried . In the south 70km from beirut

Prove that you are lebanese. You clearly know nothing about lebanon.

1) If you are truly lebanese as you cliam then you would know that half of beirut is full of people from the north and south. Beirut is not only for those who are born from beirut.

2) Those killed in kmatiyi (from the jabal battle) were burried in kmatiyi and here is the time magazine article to back it up: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1756914,00.html

3) the government backed down. Gmayel leader of the kateb asked to disarm everyone excluding hezbollah because they are a resistance. More blows to your nonsense articles and anaylsis.

4) Jumblat agreed to handover his heavy/medium weapons. The army entered the first weapon depot in shouf.

5) The army confiscated 3 trucks of small arms from the SSNP in the north.


LEB01 take your BS somewhere else. So far you haven't proved anything. All the leaders in lebanon are saying the opposite of what you say. And I have read some of what gibberish on other boards (lebanese ones). All you do there is instigate hate and promote sectarianism

.

LEB101
05-14-2008, 07:33 PM
Prove that you are lebanese. You clearly know nothing about lebanon.

1) If you are truly lebanese as you cliam then you would know that half of beirut is full of people from the north and south. Beirut is not only for those who are born from beirut.

2) Those killed in kmatiyi (from the jabal battle) were burried in kmatiyi and here is the time magazine article to back it up: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1756914,00.html

3) the government backed down. Gmayel leader of the kateb asked to disarm everyone excluding hezbollah because they are a resistance. More blows to your nonsense articles and anaylsis.

4) Jumblat agreed to handover his heavy/medium weapons. The army entered the first weapon depot in shouf.

5) The army confiscated 3 trucks of small arms from the SSNP in the north.


LEB01 take your BS somewhere else. So far you haven't proved anything. All the leaders in lebanon are saying the opposite of what you say. And I have read some of what gibberish on other boards (lebanese ones). All you do there is instigate hate and promote sectarianism

.
you take you bs somewhere when did gameyl ever say he does not want hezbollah to disarm . from the about 50 hezbollah killed in the jabal about 30 of them did not live in beirut or the jabal but from the south ordered to go kill fellow lebanese becuase that is what iran told hezbollah to do
sectarian nothing . i have not metioned anything but hezbollah and there thugs
you are not lebanese ana min lubnan wi bi lubnan inta waynak bi iran ow syria ya souri

LEB101
05-14-2008, 07:36 PM
Prove that you are lebanese. You clearly know nothing about lebanon.

1) If you are truly lebanese as you cliam then you would know that half of beirut is full of people from the north and south. Beirut is not only for those who are born from beirut.

2) Those killed in kmatiyi (from the jabal battle) were burried in kmatiyi and here is the time magazine article to back it up: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1756914,00.html

3) the government backed down. Gmayel leader of the kateb asked to disarm everyone excluding hezbollah because they are a resistance. More blows to your nonsense articles and anaylsis.

4) Jumblat agreed to handover his heavy/medium weapons. The army entered the first weapon depot in shouf.

5) The army confiscated 3 trucks of small arms from the SSNP in the north.


LEB01 take your BS somewhere else. So far you haven't proved anything. All the leaders in lebanon are saying the opposite of what you say. And I have read some of what gibberish on other boards (lebanese ones). All you do there is instigate hate and promote sectarianism

.
show me a sorce that says the army entered a depot in chou other than al manar ya hmar

Beiruty
05-14-2008, 08:31 PM
Please do not mess up this thread. Keep it civil and to leave this thread to report the events?

When the Beirut Airport will open?

LEB101
05-14-2008, 08:33 PM
Please do not mess up this thread. Keep it civil and to leave this thread to report the events?

When the Beirut Airport will open?
ONe claims all this stuff it sound like he makes it up or is listening to al manar . if the army found heavy weaposn in the chou we would all know about it but it seem only ONE can know .. hha inslah soon they open the airport and the thugs go home

khukuri
05-14-2008, 08:35 PM
Please do not mess up this thread. Keep it civil and to leave this thread to report the events?

When the Beirut Airport will open?


x2


Please guys lets leave it at that. The rest of us want a clear thread with useful info. Not rants.

LEB101
05-14-2008, 08:35 PM
x2


Please guys lets leave it at that. The rest of us want a clear thread with useful info. Not rants.
i dont say anything thats not true or that i have not herd on the news .. but ONE has his own news that he just spits on hear

Hollis
05-14-2008, 08:39 PM
i dont say anything thats not true or that i have not herd on the news .. but ONE has his own news that he just spits on hear


If One's posts are bothering you can do several things:

1) don't read them

2) put him on our ignore list

3) avoid those thread.

Khukuri has given you some sage advice. It would be wise to follow it.

H.

Fade
05-14-2008, 08:43 PM
Lebanese cabinet reverses measures against Hezbollah militants

BEIRUT - The U.S.-backed cabinet on Wednesday reversed measures against the militant Hezbollah movement that set off Lebanon's worst violence since the 1975-90 civil war.

The decision was a major victory for the Iranian-allied Hezbollah and the latest sign that the Shiite militant group appeared to have gained the upper hand in the country's political power struggle after its fighters routed supporters of the government.

Seconds after the announcement, celebratory gunfire erupted south of Beirut, a Hezbollah stronghold, but there was no immediate response from the movement's leaders to the government's decision.

Clashes between government supporters and opponents broke out last week after the cabinet challenged Hezbollah with decisions to sack the airport security chief for alleged ties to the group and to declare the militants' private telephone network illegal.

Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah said that amounted to a declaration of war and sent his armed fighters to the streets for the first time since the civil war ended, demanding the government rescind its orders.

Fierce street battles, many of them along sectarian lines, erupted and Hezbollah and its Shiite allies seized much of Muslim west Beirut by force. At least 54 people were killed.

Information Minister Ghazi Aridi said the government made a "courageous" decision to revoke the measures "in view of the higher national interest."

Story continued... (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2008/05/14/5568046-ap.html)

LEB101
05-14-2008, 08:44 PM
Story continued... (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2008/05/14/5568046-ap.html)
welcome to the face of terror and iran if they dont like your views they attack you until you change your mind .

Laworkerbee
05-14-2008, 08:45 PM
I'm real tired of seeing and reading in every news report "BEIRUT - The U.S.-backed cabinet\government" as if they were some damned puppet of America and we are responsible for it if it fails.

Lebanon is in charge of its own destiny, we can only lend a hand and watch.

LEB101
05-14-2008, 08:46 PM
I'm real tired of seeing and reading in every news report "BEIRUT - The U.S.-backed cabinet\government" as if they were some damned puppet of America and we are responsible for it if it fails.
yes the US only supports them with words and becuase they fight for freedom .. not like the iranian backed ossopition that gets weapons from iran and syria

GeneralDisarray
05-14-2008, 10:09 PM
I'm real tired of seeing and reading in every news report "BEIRUT - The U.S.-backed cabinet\government" as if they were some damned puppet of America and we are responsible for it if it fails.

Lebanon is in charge of its own destiny, we can only lend a hand and watch.

I've noticed that as well and I'm starting to get the feeling members of the press are doing that intentionally.


welcome to the face of terror and iran if they dont like your views they attack you until you change your mind .

Indeed. This is a pretty sad day for Lebanon's sovereignty. The government should have clamped down on Hezbollah a long time ago but now it looks like its too late.

LEB101
05-14-2008, 10:11 PM
I've noticed that as well and I'm starting to get the feeling members of the press are doing that intentionally.



Indeed. This is a pretty sad day for Lebanon's sovereignty. The government should have clamped down on Hezbollah a long time ago but now it looks like its too late.
its late but never too late . this is only the start hezbollah got caught using its weapons in the wrong place and now people (about 65 percent of lebanon ) are pissed off

LRPV
05-14-2008, 10:36 PM
yes the US only supports them with words and becuase they fight for freedom .. not like the iranian backed ossopition that gets weapons from iran and syria

However in all fairness to the US, should aid to the elected government be provided the issue would be cited as US imperialism in the Arab world...again.

It would be more realistic to build a viable anti-HezbAllah force and then request equipment, intelligence and political support. The horse has to come before the cart....

Good luck.

Beiruty
05-14-2008, 10:37 PM
The outcome of the last week is as follows:
1) Hizb is willing to use military force to veto the Government decisions or even overthrow the government in a coup d'etat. Hizb is willing to do so, even at the cost of full scale civil war.
2) Government did NOT collapse, even though it was taken hostage.
3) Majority did NOT flee the country!
4) Hizb cannot overtake and run the country by force without full scale civil war with enormous bloodshed and uncertain outcome. PSP stood fast and cannot be discounted!
5) Now,we are back to square one and the status quo.
6) Hizb won a battle AND lost the political war!!

One big question, is the fate of the military wing of HZ after the next elections. The Majority will demand one of 2 choices for the Hizb:
a) Integrating the Hizb with the Lebanese Army.
b) Verifiable disarming of Hizb
c) a) or b) with simultaneous disarming of the all political parties PSP, Sunnis, Christians etc, who are keeping medium and heavy weaponry.

If Hizb cannot accept option b) because of mistrust. Why he can't accept option a)? The Lebanese Army + Hizb Arsenal and well trained militia = better defense for Lebanon than either one fighting alone.

Also, one has to ask, if the Pro-government supporters "opened fire" at the Hizb supporters, why the Lebanese Army was mot asked and tasked to deal with those "bandits"!!

Beiruty

LEB101
05-14-2008, 10:40 PM
The outcome of the last week is as follows:
1) Hizb is willing to use military force to veto the Government decisions or even overthrow the government in a coup d'etat. Hizb is willing to do so, even at the cost of full scale civil war.
2) Government did NOT collapse, even though it was taken hostage.
3) Majority did NOT flee the country!
4) Hizb cannot overtake and run the country by force without full scale civil war with enormous bloodshed and uncertain outcome. PSP stood fast and cannot be discounted!
5) Now,we are back to square one and the status quo.
6) Hizb won a battle AND lost the political war!!

One big question, is the fate of the military wing of HZ after the next elections. The Majority will demand one of 2 choices for the Hizb:
a) Integrating the Hizb with the Lebanese Army.
b) Verifiable disarming of Hizb
c) a) or b) with simultaneous disarming of the all political parties PSP, Sunnis, Christians etc, who are keeping medium and heavy weaponry.

If Hizb cannot accept option b) because of mistrust. Why he can't accept option a)? The Lebanese Army + Hizb Arsenal and well trained militia = better defense for Lebanon than either one fighting alone.

Also, one has to ask, if the Pro-government supporters "opened fire" at the Hizb supporters, why the Lebanese Army was mot asked and tasked to deal with those "bandits"!!

Beiruty
hezbollah always says the army is not capable of defeding lebanon against israel . so why dont they join in with the army and make the army capable to defned lebanon . it makes perfecet sence but then iran will lose its control over hezbolah and we all know the only reason there is a hezbollah is because iran needs someone to do there dirty work . shame on you iran

ting
05-15-2008, 10:36 AM
I'm real tired of seeing and reading in every news report "BEIRUT - The U.S.-backed cabinet\government" as if they were some damned puppet of America and we are responsible for it if it fails.

Lebanon is in charge of its own destiny, we can only lend a hand and watch.

To be fair you have to remember that when the opposition is mentioned it is usually pointed to as Iranian/Syrian backed. Hence mentioning that the cabinet is US backed is IMHO good journalism:)

ting
05-15-2008, 10:44 AM
http://baltimorechronicle.com/chronsentsmalldotgif (http://baltimorechronicle.com/)
ARE BUSH-CHENEY AL QAEDA ALLIES?

Falling Cedars: Fomenting War in Lebanon -- and Beyond

by Chris Floyd
Tuesday, 13 May 2008 The current American strategy in the region is to give arms and money to extremist Sunni groups allied with al Qaeda in order to ward off Shiite factions making trouble in our client regimes.
What's going on in Lebanon? Nothing you haven't seen before -- in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Palestine and other places where "the United States is basically instigating and funding civil wars."
So says Professor As’ad AbuKhalil (http://www.democracynow.org/2008/5/12/81_dead_in_lebanon_as_hezbollah) -- better known perhaps as the "Angry Arab," for his indispensable website (http://angryarab.blogspot.com/) of the same name. AbuKhalil was born and raised in Lebanon and has an intimate knowledge of troubled land's warring factions there -- and their external backers. Needless to say, the American media's framing of the current flare-up of violence in Lebanon is the usual sinister caricature of reality, with "bad guys" attacking "our friends" out of pure, malevolent, world-gobbling evil.
In fact, "our friends" in Lebanon are actually in league with our allegedly erstwhile friends Al Qaeda. The Hariri faction backed by the Bush Administration is drawing upon the most extremist Sunni armed factions in an attempt to counteract the power of Shiite Hezbollah. This is of course just a continuation of current American strategy in the region, as Sy Hersh outlined last year (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/03/05/070305fa_fact_hersh?printable=true): giving arms and money to extremist Sunni groups allied with al Qaeda in order to ward off Shiite factions making trouble in our client regimes.
This in turn is part of a broader, more long-standing strategy, going back to 2004, as we noted in a recent report (http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1500/1/): a global program of arming and funding militias and other violent "non-state actors" to foment trouble where Washington wants trouble, and pressure recalcitrant regimes to bend to the imperial will.
And no, Washington is not "behind" every twist and turn in Middle East politics. But American interventions, direct and covert, are responsible for exacerbating and intensifying conflicts, enflaming sectarian and ethnic divides (or literally building giant concrete walls between them, as in Baghdad today), bolstering tyrannical and/or ineffectual, illegitimate leaders whose misrule provoke more strife, suffering and conflict.
In an interview this week on Democracy Now (http://www.democracynow.org/2008/5/12/81_dead_in_lebanon_as_hezbollah), AbuKhalil cuts through the corporate media cartoons to give a truer picture of the outbreak in Lebanon:
I think that people may remember, back in the 1980s, the United States government, for two years in the administration of Ronald Reagan, deployed troops from ’82 to ’84. And there was a civil war, and the United States was supporting the rightwing militias of Israel in Lebanon, and they used the discourse of supporting the central government of Lebanon.
Something similar is taking place right now in Lebanon, and this is very much similar to what’s happening in Sudan, in Palestine, in Iraq, in Afghanistan and Somalia. The United States is basically instigating, funding and arming civil wars in all those places. We hear a lot about this inability of the international community to tolerate armed militias. Of course, Hezbollah is an armed militia, but so are the pro-militias of the government. There’s a Los Angeles Times article today detailing the efforts by the United States and allies to create militias throughout the country. And the Washington Post indicated that this government of the United States spent $1.4 billion to prop up the administration of Siniora in Lebanon.
And basically, what happened in Lebanon in the last few days is a partial coup d’etat that was in response to a full coup d’etat that was engineered by the United States and Saudi Arabia and Israel from behind the scene back in 2005, capitalizing on the assassination of Rafik Hariri.
And things have gotten to this point because America basically is responsible, more than their clients in Lebanon. I mean, there were ideas of dialogue in Lebanon, and things were moving in that direction, and then, suddenly, lo and behold, the Assistant Secretary of State of the United States for the Near East, David Welch, shows up in Lebanon, and he basically wanted to stiffen the resolve of the clients and to basically prevent the possibility of dialogue. And then, Walid Jumblatt, one of the clients of the United States and Saudi Arabia and Lebanon today, escalated by deciding on taking the issue of disarming Hezbollah, which is supported at least by half of the Lebanese; and Lebanese parties, including clients of the United States, [had] agreed that the issues of disarming Hezbollah should be left for internal dialogue of the Lebanese themselves...
This [the current violence] is something that experts have warned the United Nations about. If you push things to that point, the other side is going to lash out, and they did lash out, even if one, like me, does not like the scenes of these militias and armed thugs running into the streets of Beirut and so on. But basically, we have to say that this is the doing of US foreign policy, and this is the true face of the Bush Doctrine in the Middle East.....
We have to say that this level of intense tensions and conflict and animosity is the product of a deliberate American-Saudi policy of instigating a Sunni-Shiite conflict, the likes of which Lebanon has never seen. I mean, even somebody like myself who comes from a split background—my mother is Sunni, and my father is Shiite—I mean, we’ve never seen anything like this. Saudi media, with the full cooperation of the United States, have been for three years mobilizing the Lebanese opposition, because that’s the only thing they have....They have been [doing] serious propagandizing to [split] Sunnis from Shiites in order [to] create a militia that can stand up to Hezbollah.
Back at his website, AbuKhalil notes:
What is quite ironic is that Lebanese Forces' media (like LBC-TV) are gleefully airing calls for Jihad... by (Hariri- and Saudi-funded) Salafite groups in North Lebanon. Do they not know what those groups' views are of Christians? They even refer to Lebanese Christians as "crusaders". These are clones of Al-Qa`idah, but the Lebanese Forces seem to be embracing them.
And so in Lebanon -- as in Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia (http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1503/1/) -- the policies of the Bush Administration have only produced more extremism, more terrorists, more violence.
Can we not discern a pattern here, a clear intention? The "War on Terror" produces terror; it's part of the "creative destruction" that the militarists used to boast about, when they dreamed that their crimes of aggression, torture and murder would lead future generations to "sing songs about us," in the immortal words of Michael Ledeen.
This quote is often attributed to Richard Perle, but it comes from Ledeen's call for "total war" in a speech at American Enterprise Institute (http://www.aei.org/events/filter.,eventID.364/transcript.asp) on October 29, 2001. Ledeen followed this up with a piece on National Review Online (http://www.nationalreview.com/ledeen/ledeen080602a.asp) in August 2002, when he mocked Brent Scowcroft's concern that an invasion of Iraq could turn the Middle East into a cauldron. Ledeen's response:
One can only hope that we turn the region into a cauldron, and faster, please. If ever there were a region that richly deserved being cauldronized, it is the Middle East today.
Ledeen is no mere kibitzer on the rightwing gravy train. He is one of the architects and chief abettors of the cauldronization -- the slaughter and suffering -- we see across the Middle East today. As the Washington Post noted (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A2674-2003Mar9&notFound=true) back in the glory days of 2003, when these bloodthirsty wretches were still strutting around beating their chests about their importance:
One [of Karl Rove's advisers] is Michael Ledeen of the American Enterprise Institute, whose specialties include terrorism and the Middle East. His latest book, according to the official summary, asserts that "America must topple the regimes of the terror masters to eliminate the threat of terrorism."
The two met after Bush's election. "He said, 'Anytime you have a good idea, tell me,' " Ledeen said. Every month or six weeks, Ledeen will offer Rove "something you should be thinking about." More than once, Ledeen has seen his ideas, faxed to Rove, become official policy or rhetoric.
Nowadays, of course, Ledeen skulks around pretending he opposed the invasion of Iraq: the kind of astonishing lie one might have heard in a Nuremberg courtoom back in the day, and one easily refuted (http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/11/what-do-national-review-rich-lowry-and.html). (As is his current lie (http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/05/08/ledeen/index.html) that he has always opposed an attack on Iran.) But he, Rove and all the other facilitators of the militarists bear a direct and substantial share of responsibility for the murder and chaos that continues to erupt across the tormented region.
UPDATE: And now Bush is proposing an even more direct U.S. military intervention (http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/middleeast/news/article_1405011.php/US_President_Bush_offers_to_help_Lebanese_Army) in Lebanon. Speaking in Cairo -- on yet another one of his pointless trots* around the cauldron (maybe he wants another fancy sword -- or just some more good smoochin' -- from the Saudi king) -- Bush offered to help the Lebanese army "respond more effectively" to Hezbollah. He also took the opportunity to -- what else? -- blame Iran for everything happening in Lebanon, claiming that without the backing of the devilish Persians, Hezbollah -- which, as AbuKhalil noted, is supported by almost half of the Lebanese population -- would be "powerless."
So Bush will soon have yet another proxy war playground to while away his time before retiring to stick his snout in the same corporate trough that has so enriched his fellow war crminal, Tony Blair -- who has already made almost $20 million in corporate pork (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1927686/Tony-Blair-to-buy-John-Gielgud%27s-former-home.html)in less than a year after leaving office.
Who says crime -- especially war crime -- doesn't pay?
*Note. Some might think that Bush is touring the region to build support for an attack on Iran. But that kind of head-knocking and arm-twisting is left to **** Cheney (who took an ominious swing through the cauldron not long ago). Junior is too witless for any hard-core dealing -- although no doubt he will bluster and bellow to his hosts about Iranian perfidy and "doin' God's will" and whatever else vomits up from his murder-rotted brain.
http://baltimorechronicle.com/2008/images/Chris-FloyddotjpgChris Floyd has been a writer and editor for more than 25 years, working in the United States, Great Britain and Russia for various newspapers, magazines, the U.S. government and Oxford University. Floyd co-founded the blog Empire Burlesque (http://www.chris-floyd.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1), and is also chief editor of Atlantic Free Press (http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/). He can be reached at cfloyd72@gmail.com. This column is republished here with the permission of the author.

http://baltimorechronicle.com/2008/051408Floyd.shtml

I felt this article was very enlightening. I recommend going to the address to ease reading.

Some might feel it`s a bit anti-Bush. However I would argue that there is a reason for his low pole ratings. Lets face it, Bush is not exactly the best President the US has had.;)

Laworkerbee
05-15-2008, 11:33 AM
To be fair you have to remember that when the opposition is mentioned it is usually pointed to as Iranian/Syrian backed. Hence mentioning that the cabinet is US backed is IMHO good journalism:)

Damned good point there ting.

ting
05-15-2008, 11:41 AM
Damned good point there ting.

Thanks for the kind words. I`m blushing:oops:
:-D

frenchy
05-15-2008, 01:16 PM
Lebanese government is weak, no pride.:-(

He thinks, he avoids new deads. Meanwhile the hezbollah prepares for the next round against institutions to take over the country, and it will be too late.

500
05-15-2008, 01:56 PM
Not all Shias in Leb are pro Hezbollah:


I am not sure if I can find solace in the anti-Hizbullah resistance that this has awakened, specifically what happened in the Jabal, not that I'm not glad someone somewhere checked their advances. The sectarian genie, as some of you put it, is out of the bottle. As a Lebanese Shia, it distresses me that Hizbullah has prevented my family from living at peace with their Sunni and Druze neighbors. My immediate family, once residents of a mixed neighborhood near Choueifat, were forced to flee south after Hizbullah gunmen invaded their neighborhood. They are now refugees in the south, forced to endure the verbal terrorism of Hizbullah supporters, and fearing retaliation and accusations of treason, should it come out that they supported March 14.

In my last conversation with my father, a Shia who hails from the south but grew up in Beirut, he said he didn’t know where to go. Thanks to Hizbullah, anti-Shia sentiments are at an all time high in most non-Shia areas.

Hizbullah, of course, has been investing this to boost resentment towards March 14. In many southern and Bekaa towns, young and old Shias have been brainwashed into believing that Hariri and Jumblatt want to kill them and sell them to the Israelis. Even before these recent events, the amount of anger built up against March 14 was unfathomable. Short of shutting down all Hizbullah media, and banning the militia from political and public life, there is no way out for the Shia community from this web of deceit.

http://www.beirutbeltway.com/beirutbeltway/2008/05/another-stupid.html

LEB101
05-15-2008, 03:06 PM
Not all Shias in Leb are pro Hezbollah:



http://www.beirutbeltway.com/beirutbeltway/2008/05/another-stupid.html
only shias in the south and in the bekka area support hezbollah becuase they ahve to live under there terror everyday . but most shias that live in free areas of lebanon dont nessacearly support hezbollah

nu4idf
05-15-2008, 03:10 PM
only shias in the south and in the bekka area support hezbollah becuase they ahve to live under there terror everyday . but most shias that live in free areas of lebanon dont nessacearly support hezbollah

Some "israeli-arabs" support hezbollah and they're sunni. Talk about an internal enemy.

LEB101
05-15-2008, 03:14 PM
Some "israeli-arabs" support hezbollah and they're sunni. Talk about an internal enemy.
they support them becase they are arabs not beacuse they think what they ar doiing is right . israeli arabs ahould be delt with carefully in israel . i hope you do not totally trust them

nu4idf
05-15-2008, 03:16 PM
they support them becase they are arabs not beacuse they think what they ar doiing is right . israeli arabs ahould be delt with carefully in israel . i hope you do not totally trust them I trust them as much as I trust a politician.

Fade
05-15-2008, 03:17 PM
Feuding Lebanese factions reach deal to elect army chief as president

BEIRUT - Lebanon's U.S.-backed government and the Hezbollah-led opposition have reportedly agreed to talks aimed at electing the country's army chief as president.

An Arab mediator says the feuding factions reached the deal Thursday.

The agreement comes a day after the cabinet backed down and reversed two anti-Hezbollah measures that had sparked widespread violence in Beirut and elsewhere.

In return, Hezbollah removed a roadblock that has shut down the country's international airport for a week.

Qatari Prime Minister Sheik Hamad bin Jassem al-Thani, who has been mediating the dispute, says the two camps agreed to meet Friday in Qatar.

He says the aim is to work out an agreement that will see compromise candidate Gen. Michel Suleiman, the army chief, elected as president.

Source.... (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2008/05/15/5573721-ap.html)

(Theres that whole 'US backed government' thing again...)

IDF_TANKER
05-15-2008, 03:19 PM
they support them becase they are arabs not beacuse they think what they ar doiing is right . israeli arabs ahould be delt with carefully in israel . i hope you do not totally trust them

LEB, man, the truth now - are the last Lebanese Jew or something??

LEB101
05-15-2008, 03:24 PM
LEB, man, the truth now - are the last Lebanese Jew or something??
im ont jewish i am simply a lebanese amn living in lebanon north east of beirut

nu4idf
05-15-2008, 03:51 PM
LEB, man, the truth now - are the last Lebanese Jew or something??
Don't you think they would have lynched him by now.

LEB101
05-15-2008, 04:03 PM
Don't you think they would have lynched him by now.
haha i am from the south to were most of the hezbollah thugs are but i live in near beirut now

Korathv2
05-15-2008, 06:44 PM
If Suleyman is elected the president, it would be the solution indicated over a year ago.

One?
05-15-2008, 07:33 PM
only shias in the south and in the bekka area support hezbollah becuase they ahve to live under there terror everyday . but most shias that live in free areas of lebanon dont nessacearly support hezbollah

Explain your theory about living under terror? Or is that another one of your BS comments?

If you mean shia in beirut then explain to me the streets of hay il lija, basta, mar elias, andz2a2 il blat, ras il nabi3.

Oh wait they are shia in beirut but happen to support amal. you're right. I'm mistaken. Amal and hezbollah are 2 different parties....

LEB01 my guess if you are correct you are from one of the villages in the south that were under israeli occupation. Which means an LF supporter. Which explains your hate and ignorance.

Anyways all leaders in lebanon agreed that hezbollah is the national resistance. So bang your head on the wall your theories are all debunked. Oh and Jumblat said today "the jabal was always and will always be a resitance supporter and defender". Hehe funny guy that is.

One?
05-15-2008, 07:36 PM
Lebanese government is weak, no pride.:-(

He thinks, he avoids new deads. Meanwhile the hezbollah prepares for the next round against institutions to take over the country, and it will be too late.


thats why we need a new government :)

eugekava
05-15-2008, 08:06 PM
New government that would be acceptable to all Lebanese or Hezbollah? Hezbollah is the strongest side militarily, they proved that. They will push for a government they can easily dominate. Lebanese peace was holding when all the parties were of a similar strength. Now that one party (Hez) is obviously stronger than others your choices are either live under Hez(Iran ) dominated government or reduce the power of Hezbollah so that it does not present a threat to the Government. No government can function effectively if its decisions are overruled by force of one of the groups.

LEB101
05-15-2008, 08:45 PM
New government that would be acceptable to all Lebanese or Hezbollah? Hezbollah is the strongest side militarily, they proved that. They will push for a government they can easily dominate. Lebanese peace was holding when all the parties were of a similar strength. Now that one party (Hez) is obviously stronger than others your choices are either live under Hez(Iran ) dominated government or reduce the power of Hezbollah so that it does not present a threat to the Government. No government can function effectively if its decisions are overruled by force of one of the groups.
they can not easily dominate nothing in lebanon . if all lebanese started resisting them they would dissapear in a years time

LEB101
05-15-2008, 08:45 PM
Explain your theory about living under terror? Or is that another one of your BS comments?

If you mean shia in beirut then explain to me the streets of hay il lija, basta, mar elias, andz2a2 il blat, ras il nabi3.

Oh wait they are shia in beirut but happen to support amal. you're right. I'm mistaken. Amal and hezbollah are 2 different parties....

LEB01 my guess if you are correct you are from one of the villages in the south that were under israeli occupation. Which means an LF supporter. Which explains your hate and ignorance.

Anyways all leaders in lebanon agreed that hezbollah is the national resistance. So bang your head on the wall your theories are all debunked. Oh and Jumblat said today "the jabal was always and will always be a resitance supporter and defender". Hehe funny guy that is.
jumblat never said that send me a link to that

LEB101
05-15-2008, 08:51 PM
i lived in the south and when israel invaded in 1978 i was the first on in my village to tell them to get out or we would resist . but i never took orders from and iranian regime that supports terror and evil and threatens to wipe other countires off the map and denies the holocuast. hez-al hameer is not a hero no more they tured there weaposna gainst us they are evil and they are thugs

Moledet
05-15-2008, 09:17 PM
At least one Lebanese understands that Hizballah is keeping Lebanon from advancing forward. Without it there's no reason for Israel to invade, there's no reason to not invest in Lebanon and there's no reason to not come and visit there. Without it you probably won't have a peace treaty with Israel but at least you won't be going one strep forward and two backward every few years.

LEB101
05-15-2008, 09:19 PM
At least one Lebanese understands that Hizballah is keeping Lebanon from advancing forward. Without it there's no reason for Israel to invade, there's no reason to not invest in Lebanon and there's no reason to not come and visit there. Without it you probably won't have a peace treaty with Israel but at least you won't be going one strep forward and two backward every few years.
every step we take forward the perisan hordes (hezbollah) send us 500 stpes back they are not good for us they are the cnacer of lebanon

eugekava
05-15-2008, 09:38 PM
every step we take forward the perisan hordes (hezbollah) send us 500 stpes back they are not good for us they are the cnacer of lebanon

Just like PLO was in 70s and early 80s. Only one way to beat the cancer and it ain't by negotiating with it.

LEB101
05-15-2008, 09:40 PM
Just like PLO was in 70s and early 80s. Only one way to beat the cancer and it ain't by negotiating with it.
only canser can kill cnaer that is a saying hear in lebanon . that means the plo beat them selves by attacking israel to much and hezbollah has beat there selves by attakcing and murdering lebanese citizens

Laworkerbee
05-15-2008, 09:56 PM
Can someone recommend a book about Lebanese history.

Thanks,

LEB101
05-15-2008, 10:04 PM
Can someone recommend a book about Lebanese history.

Thanks,
just ask me ill tell you anthing you want to know

I can't think of a name
05-15-2008, 10:08 PM
just ask me ill tell you anthing you want to know

LOL, I like you dude.

Laworkerbee, some people rag on Thomas Friedman pretty hard but he has the most famous book concerning the Lebanese civil war.

Check the book links at the bottom of the wiki pages also.

LEB101
05-15-2008, 10:11 PM
LOL, I like you dude.

Laworkerbee, some people rag on Thomas Friedman pretty hard but he has the most famous book concerning the Lebanese civil war.

Check the book links at the bottom of the wiki pages also.
thank you . i liek you pic its shows what hezbollah is really about

Laworkerbee
05-15-2008, 10:52 PM
I can't think of a name

Thanks man I'll look it up, I like Friedman as well.


just ask me ill tell you anthing you want to know


LOL, I like you dude.
X2 seriously

LEB101
05-16-2008, 05:35 PM
the lebanese have elft for doha to continue talks

500
05-16-2008, 07:12 PM
Can someone recommend a book about Lebanese history.

Thanks,
here a good link:

http://www.ghazi.de/history.html

One?
05-16-2008, 07:23 PM
jumblat never said that send me a link to that



hahaha still insisting?

alright well did you watch his Press conference from baysour today? Did you hear what he had to say or still trying to distort facts ?


Again i still doubt you're lebanese because you're dodging the question and refusing to answer.

Oh and could you please stop sending me hateful private messages. If you have something to say, then say it here. Don't show 2 faces.

One?
05-16-2008, 07:32 PM
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/v3/images/global/usn-logodotpng

Lebanon May Attract Sunnis Seeking to Wage Jihad

Fears in Beirut that recent Shiite attacks may set the stage for revenge violence this summer

By Mitchell Prothero (http://www.usnews.com/Topics/tag/Author/m/mitchell_prothero/index.html)
Posted May 15, 2008

BEIRUT—Hezbollah's recent moves to settle by force Lebanon's 18-month-old political crisis might have done more than just subvert the American-backed government of Prime Minister Fouad Siniora. It also seems to have made Lebanon the next "can't miss" destination for Sunni Muslim radicals seeking a violent summer.

Hezbollah and its mostly Shiite allies faced little resistance earlier this month as they moved to capture and neutralize offices and media outlets supporting the mostly Sunni "Future Movement" in west Beirut. It was a violent step in the progressive deterioration of civil society (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/H/HEZBOLLAHS_POWER?SITE=DCUSN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT) that began after Syrian troops were forced out of Lebanon in the wake of former Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri's 2005 assassination.
But their efforts to preserve Hezbollahs military (http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/world/2007/12/06/hezbollah-rearms-and-bides-its-time.html) autonomy from Lebanon's pro-western government—as well as to push for what they consider a more fair allocation of political power (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/L/LEBANON?SITE=DCUSN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)—might have backfired because the move has been widely seen by the Arab world's Sunni majority as tantamount to a coup by Iranian-backed Shiite militias.
Lebanon's sectarian strife is starting to resemble Iraq's religious conflicts in the eyes of Sunni proponents of Salafist Islam, a conservative ideology espoused by al Qaeda that considers Shiites to be part of a heretical cult. Lebanon offers a budding jihadist almost everything: sectarian tensions, a weak central government and security services, and what many al Qaeda followers would consider the best neighborhood imaginable, right on Israel's northern border.
And while Lebanon's Sunnis tend to be fairly moderate outside of a few communities of radicals in the north and east, the estimated 400,000 Palestinian refugees, many of whom live in a series of heavily armed and poorly policed camps, have shown significant support for al Qaeda (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/060626/26beirut.htm) thinkers, most notably Abu Musab Zarqawi (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/060619/19iraq.htm), the slain leader of the group Al Qaeda in Iraq (http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/iraq/2008/05/12/the-us-quietly-slashes-the-reward-posted-for-the-leader-of-al-qaeda-in-iraq.html), who drew followers from Lebanese refugee camps.
Lebanese security officials have long been warning that militants trained and radicalized in Iraq pose a serious threat, a warning proved true last summer when the Lebanese Army battled Fatah al-Islam (http://www-origin.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/070527/4lebanon.htm)—an assortment of militants led by Iraq veterans—in the Nahr al-Bared refugee camp for over three months.
By this week, websites and chat rooms serving virtual al Qaeda buzzed with information on the Lebanon situation, and, according to Jihadica.com (http://www.jihadica.com/), which tracks such sites, postings detailing how to operate in Lebanon were up in hours. One such post referred to Abu Bakr Naji's work "The Management of Savagery," a tome that postulates that aspiring militants should seek out religiously tense places with a security vacuum. There was also ample chatter about the need to fight off Iran and the Shiite influence, leaving Lebanese officials concerned that Sunni governments in the region, namely Saudi Arabia (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/SAUDI_LEBANON?SITE=DCUSN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT), Kuwait, and Jordan, might turn a blind eye to militants headed to Lebanon in an effort to see Hezbollah and Iran's control of the country usurped.
Hezbollah, for its part, is nervously watching. The group has long prohibited Sunni militants from operating in south Lebanon or from conducting operations against Israel from Lebanon, in no small part to keep them from establishing a foothold from which to later attack Lebanon's Shiite community. Even as they celebrated their victory against poorly trained and equipped Sunnis in Beirut, Hezbollah fighters were on the lookout for better-motivated and experienced fighters headed for what many are calling Lebanon's new civil war.



"We are worried about this and watching very closely," a Hezbollah ground commander said this week. "We know they will be coming here now."
Hezbollah, according to the commander, has plans in place for such attacks, including a security plan to close off Shiite neighborhoods from the rest of the city. It also has a formidable intelligence service already tasked with watching for Iraq veterans trying to illegally enter from Syria.
But while such groups have received little support from Lebanon's Sunnis in the past, their humiliating defeat last week by Hezbollah and the tensions that led to the clashes already had Beirut's urbane and unarmed Sunni population looking to religious conservatives and rougher men from outlying regions like Tripoli, Akkar, and the Bekaa Valley, which all have significant militant communities.
"We know that the Future Movement has been working with some groups and that new groups have been forming in Tripoli," one top security official not cleared to speak to the media said early this year. "These groups have similar ideas to al Qaeda and can offer weapons and training to the Sunnis here. We are also seeing support from some Saudi princes concerned about Iran's influence."
Are they sending jihadist fighters? "We're not sure yet, but these are the same people who have sent them in the past," he said. "I'm not sure the country could take this new threat. It's already so weak."
The nearly perfect conditions for an al Qaeda-like outbreak of violence in Lebanon have not been missed by the group's senior leadership. On April 22, al Qaeda No. 2 Ayman al-Zawahiri suggested the Middle East's most liberal and diverse nation could play an important role in the ongoing conflict with the West. "Lebanon is a Muslim frontline fort," he said. "It will have a pivotal role, God willing, in future battles with the Crusaders and the Jews.
"I call upon the jihadist generation in Lebanon to prepare to reach Palestine and to banish the invading Crusader forces which are claimed to be peacekeeping forces in Lebanon," he said, in reference to the United Nations peacekeepers on Lebanon's southern border with Israel.


source: http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/world/2008/05/15/lebanon-may-attract-sunnis-seeking-to-wage-jihad.html?PageNr=2

LEB101
05-16-2008, 07:43 PM
source: http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/world/2008/05/15/lebanon-may-attract-sunnis-seeking-to-wage-jihad.html?PageNr=2
read the first sentence hezbollah used force inside of lebanon against lebabnon . al qada can never have abse in lebanon no one will spupport them . maybe the shia might support them . they already support one thungd terrorist militia called hezbollah . but i doubt the sunnis who called for peace while hezbollah was terrorizing the lebanese of jabal lubnan and west beirut . the onyl terror and extermist groups right now are amal and hezbollah .. sorry buddy nice try. but your just trying to make it seem like what hezbollah did was right and the sunnis are bad becuase they like al qada .. get a life.. it says in the article hezbollah does not allow anyone other than shias to conduct resistance agginst israel .. why beasue iran only wants people they can \contorl to have arms

Moledet
05-16-2008, 07:50 PM
Where's BPEL? I hope he wasn't arrested and interrogated again.

ting
05-16-2008, 08:23 PM
Where's BPEL? I hope he wasn't arrested and interrogated again.

x2

On an unrelated matter, wasnt there some lebanese who were forced to flee to Israel when Israel withdrew in 2000?

Snoshi
05-16-2008, 08:29 PM
x2

On an unrelated matter, wasnt there some lebanese who were forced to flee to Israel when Israel withdrew in 2000?

Yes,

Many members, some with their families, fled to Israel, while others gave themselves up to the Lebanese authorities, or were taken prisoner by Hezbollah who handed them over to the police. SLA members captured by Lebanon and Hezbollah were tried by Lebanese military courts for treason. The majority of members of the SLA were Sunnis and fearing being suspected of offences fled to Israel. A number of members were also granted asylum in European countries, mostly in Germany.[citation needed]

Hezbollah was also criticised for preventing the arrest of some members of the SLA; it justified this on the grounds that it was in a position to know which of them had been informing.[2] Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak was criticised in Israel on the grounds that his decision to withdraw without consulting his SLA allies led to the rapidity and confusion of its collapse.[citation needed]

By June 2000, three thousand former members of the SLA were in Lebanese government custody. By the end of year, around 2700 of them had been tried in military courts. It has been estimated that one third of the SLA members received one-year sentences and that one third were sentenced to less than a month. Two members of the SLA accused of torture at Al-Khiam prison received life sentences. Twenty one members of the SLA were recommended for death sentences but in each case the military reduced the sentence. Certain individuals were also barred from returning to South Lebanon by a number of years. [3]

Although many SLA members and families eventually chose to return from Israel to Lebanon after Hezbollah promised they would not be harmed, others accepted Israel's offer of full citizenship and a financial package similar to that granted to new immigrants, and settled permanently in Israel. On April 6, 2006, the Israeli Knesset Finance Committee approved the payment of 40,000 shekels per family to SLA veterans to be paid over the course of seven years. [4]

Israel continues to host the Government of Free Lebanon on whose behalf the SLA operated. The Government of Free Lebanon has operated from Jerusalem since 2000 and still claims to be the true government of Lebanon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Lebanon_Army

ting
05-16-2008, 08:35 PM
Yes,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Lebanon_Army

Thanks! I knew about it, but couldnt remember. It was on the tip of my tounge. Damn frustrating:D

Calanen
05-16-2008, 09:22 PM
read the first sentence hezbollah used force inside of lebanon against lebabnon . al qada can never have abse in lebanon no one will spupport them . maybe the shia might support them


Al Quada and Shia dont really mix. Al Quada are Sunnis.

Moledet
05-16-2008, 09:29 PM
Al Quada and Shia dont really mix. Al Quada are Sunnis.
Why take things out of context? He continued this sentence.
"they already support one thungd terrorist militia called hezbollah "

One?
05-16-2008, 09:48 PM
Alqaeda = salafists/wahabis

slafaists/wahabis say shia are infidels.

Anyways just an update if anyone heard bin-f*kface's last audio he said he sent jihadists to free lebanon from crusadors and jews.

Salafist groups in lebanon are already calling sunnis to get weapons and defend lebanon from the crusaders and persians. So ya....not a good summer afterall.

One?
05-16-2008, 09:51 PM
read the first sentence hezbollah used force inside of lebanon against lebabnon . al qada can never have abse in lebanon no one will spupport them . maybe the shia might support them . they already support one thungd terrorist militia called hezbollah . but i doubt the sunnis who called for peace while hezbollah was terrorizing the lebanese of jabal lubnan and west beirut . the onyl terror and extermist groups right now are amal and hezbollah .. sorry buddy nice try. but your just trying to make it seem like what hezbollah did was right and the sunnis are bad becuase they like al qada .. get a life.. it says in the article hezbollah does not allow anyone other than shias to conduct resistance agginst israel .. why beasue iran only wants people they can \contorl to have arms


I guess you don't understand english....read the article again, if you still don't understand get someone to translate it for you :)

Its possible that BPEL might be interrogated he was in the past by the same people in power today for resisting the syrian occupation. People like him should be national heros.

LEB01 you are still dodging the question. This is reminder #4 i think...

One?
05-16-2008, 09:56 PM
x2

On an unrelated matter, wasnt there some lebanese who were forced to flee to Israel when Israel withdrew in 2000?


no one was forced, they chose to leave. some of them returned some stayed.

LEB101
05-16-2008, 10:06 PM
no one was forced, they chose to leave. some of them returned some stayed.
actually hassan nasrallah said they were going to be slaughtered in there beds . so if a thug milita said that to you . you would leave to

LEB101
05-16-2008, 10:08 PM
I guess you don't understand english....read the article again, if you still don't understand get someone to translate it for you :)

Its possible that BPEL might be interrogated he was in the past by the same people in power today for resisting the syrian occupation. People like him should be national heros.

LEB01 you are still dodging the question. This is reminder #4 i think...
al qada can not spread in lebanon . no one not even the sunnis will support them . maybe a small percent . the percent of sunnis that are wahabbi are like 2 percent . the rest are peace loving people . hariri showed that when he said do not fight hezbollah . he called for his supporters not to use weapons . unlike hassan who said we delcare war on lebanon . and killed dozens of people . you are sick ONE for supporting the persain hezbollah thug milita . stop watching al manar . ya hamar

One?
05-16-2008, 11:12 PM
actually hassan nasrallah said they were going to be slaughtered in there beds . so if a thug milita said that to you . you would leave to

I would be smart enough not to betray my country :)



al qada can not spread in lebanon . no one not even the sunnis will support them . maybe a small percent . the percent of sunnis that are wahabbi are like 2 percent . the rest are peace loving people . hariri showed that when he said do not fight hezbollah . he called for his supporters not to use weapons . unlike hassan who said we delcare war on lebanon . and killed dozens of people . you are sick ONE for supporting the persain hezbollah thug milita . stop watching al manar . ya hamar


I'll come back here and remind you when AlQaeda invades lebanon like they tried in 2007 in naher el bared. And just like Hariri funded Jund El Sham in Ain El Hilwi. But then again I don't think your lebanese because you don't know internal lebanese politicsl. You keep repeating the same thing over and over like a parrot "persian persian hezbollah persian".

Show me facts that AlQaeda is not in lebanon.
Show me proof that alqaeda is not discussing plans to attack lebanon, unifil and israel from lebanon.

Show me proof that Shahal the salafist founder in lebanon did not threaten shia and did not call for sunnis to carry arms, did he not call on those in the palestinian camps to defend the sunnis of lebanon (meaning Jund El Sham, Fateh Al Islam et..). Did they not threaten the crusaders and infidels (christians) ?

Show me facts the say otherwise and I will shut up. Until otherwise any supporter of AlQaeda will be sent to hell on a 1 way ticket :)

alqaeda tried to spread. the fire katyushas, killed unifil troops, and fought the lebanese army for a couple of months. they are in ain el hilwi camp and in tibeneh. there presence is well known and very visible. you continue to deny facts. just today binladen said he is sending more jihadists. it came from there leader and you continue to be blind.

I don't know if you christian, jewish, or muslim but like I said I will remind you as soon as the first car bomb goes off.


For the 5th time you still haven't answered my question. More proof that
a) you're not lebanese
b) you dont know what you're talking about besides "persian, persian hezbollah persian".

LEB101
05-16-2008, 11:18 PM
I would be smart enough not to betray my country :)





I'll come back here and remind you when AlQaeda invades lebanon like they tried in 2007 in naher el bared. And just like Hariri funded Jund El Sham in Ain El Hilwi. But then again I don't think your lebanese because you don't know internal lebanese politicsl. You keep repeating the same thing over and over like a parrot "persian persian hezbollah persian".

Show me facts that AlQaeda is not in lebanon.
Show me proof that alqaeda is not discussing plans to attack lebanon, unifil and israel from lebanon.

Show me proof that Shahal the salafist founder in lebanon did not threaten shia and did not call for sunnis to carry arms, did he not call on those in the palestinian camps to defend the sunnis of lebanon (meaning Jund El Sham, Fateh Al Islam et..). Did they not threaten the crusaders and infidels (christians) ?

Show me facts the say otherwise and I will shut up. Until otherwise any supporter of AlQaeda will be sent to hell on a 1 way ticket :)

alqaeda tried to spread. the fire katyushas, killed unifil troops, and fought the lebanese army for a couple of months. they are in ain el hilwi camp and in tibeneh. there presence is well known and very visible. you continue to deny facts. just today binladen said he is sending more jihadists. it came from there leader and you continue to be blind.

I don't know if you christian, jewish, or muslim but like I said I will remind you as soon as the first car bomb goes off.


For the 5th time you still have answered my question. More proof that
a) you're not lebanese
b) you dont know what you're talking about besides "persian, persian hezbollah persian".
do you want to see my passport or something . ana lubnan in lubnan right now habibi . ana bi jabal lubnan sab beyroot . wi izza badak ta3rif aktar min hek ib owlak . sahal is dumb no one will isten to him . hariri is the sunna in lubnan not seom retart who wants to start a war . sahal should be thrown in prison . with nusrallah for advocation viloence and a civil war . remember what hassan said . we will cut off the hand of anyone who messes with us .. i hate al qada more than anything . but what hezbollah did was no short of a terror act againt the whole of lebanon

Foxbat
05-16-2008, 11:51 PM
thug milita

thugs

thug hezzbollah

can you stop using "thug" in every sentence? it looses it impact after a while. i think everybody here agrees that the remaining armed militias in lebanon are thugs.

LRPV
05-17-2008, 10:04 AM
For the 5th time you still haven't answered my question. More proof that
a) you're not lebanese
b) you dont know what you're talking about besides "persian, persian hezbollah persian".


do you want to see my passport or something . ana lubnan in lubnan right now habibi . ana bi jabal lubnan sab beyroot . wi izza badak ta3rif aktar min hek ib owlak .


Do you guys who profess to be Lebanese realise the civil conflict is in Lebanon, not MP.net?

LEB101
05-17-2008, 11:59 AM
Do you guys who profess to be Lebanese realise the civil conflict is in Lebanon, not MP.net?
yes but ONE insists to attack me because i speek the truth . unlike he who speaks al manar

Snoshi
05-17-2008, 04:57 PM
Lebanon's US-backed ruling coalition challenged their Hizbullah-led rivals Saturday, demanding that top-level talks in Qatar on ending Lebanon's 18-month old political crisis - which turned violent a week ago - also tackle the issue of Hizbullah's weapons.

Qatari Prime Minister Sheikh Hamad bin Jassem Al-Thani, left, walks into the conference room with Lebanese counterpart Faud Saniora, Saturday, in Doha, Qatar.

However, the Hizbullah side insisted the group's arsenal was not to be touched, according to Lebanese media reports on the first day of the negotiations in the Qatari capital.

The Doha-hosted meeting between the Lebanese factions on forming a national unity government and electing a president was agreed under an Arab League-mediated deal to end Lebanon's worst violence since the 1975-1990 civil war.

Following Arab mediation, the feuding sides flew to Qatar on Friday, after agreeing that the talks would lead to the election of compromise candidate Army chief Gen. Michel Suleiman as Lebanese president.

Lebanon's official National News Agency said the talks became tense when parliament majority leader Saad Hariri, a Sunni, and hard-line pro-government Christian politician Samir Geagea brought up the issue of Hizbullah's weapons.

The private LBC Television said the feuding sides engaged in "heated discussions" over the subject, which took up most of the morning session. The TV said pro-government leaders stressed that the sectarian fighting, which erupted in Beirut and other areas last week, must not be allowed to recur.

This indicated that Prime Minister Fuad Saniora's side was looking for guarantees in Qatar that Hizbullah won't again take to the streets as it did when it overrun Muslim Sunni west Beirut neighborhoods last week.

Geagea had warned Hizbullah that Doha talks would fail if the Shi'ite Islamist group sticks to keeping its weapons. "We can no longer accept Hizbullah as it is," he told the Qatari Al-Jazeera TV.

Telecommunications Minister Marwan Hamadeh told The Associated Press from Qatar that he expected "three critical days" before any sort of compromise is reached, but that the Doha talks would include "Hizbullah's use of its weapons to achieve internal political aims."

The eruption last week was triggered by government measures to rein in Hizbullah, whose fighters then responded by taking up arms. The clashes left 67 people dead and over 200 wounded.

The violence eventually forced the government to revoke the measures, giving Hizbullah an upper hand in its standoff with the government.

The standoff has paralyzed Lebanon politically, and left it without a president since pro-Syrian Emile Lahoud's term ended last November. It started in Nov. 2006, when six Hizbullah ministers and their allies resigned from the Cabinet because it would not give them veto power on government decisions.

Lawmaker Mohammed Raad, who heads Hizbullah's delegation in Qatar, defended the group's keeping its arsenal, saying the weapons were meant to fight against Israel and "must not be touched," according to LBC.

Subsequently, Qatari host Prime Minister Sheik Hamad bin Jassem al-Thani asked the two sides to stick for now to discussions on a national unity government. According to NNA, they set up a four-party committee to draft a new election law.

"It's not easy," Amin Gemayel, a pro-government politician and former president, was quoted by NNA as saying in Doha.

Still, Saniora struck an upbeat note, saying Saturday's session showed "all parties are eager to reach an understanding that will lead to the beginning of a solution to this crisis," the private Voice of Lebanon Radio reported.

Washington and Saniora's faction have accused Iran and Syria of seeking to undermine the Lebanese government and Middle East stability, while Hizbullah accuses the prime minister and his allies in the anti-Syrian coalition of being America's servants.

In Egypt Saturday as part of his Middle East tour, US President George W. Bush said that Lebanon's latest turmoil - perceived by the US and many in the Sunni Arab world as a demonstration of Shi'ite-controlled Iran's quest for more regional influence - was another dominant topic in his talks with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.

Bush said he and Abbas agreed on their concern about "radical elements undermining" Saniora's government. "This is a defining moment," Bush said. "It is a moment that requires us to stand strongly with the Saniora government and to support the Saniora government."

Bush had planned to meet with Saniora Sunday in Egypt, but the session was canceled.

Talks in Qatar are the first time top leaders from the Lebanese sides came face-to-face in the 18 months crisis.

Hizbullah leader Hassan Nasrallah, who is in hiding fearing an assassination by Israel, did not attend.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1210668657372&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

One?
05-17-2008, 05:39 PM
Do you guys who profess to be Lebanese realise the civil conflict is in Lebanon, not MP.net?


there is no war :)

There are a few other lebanese members on this forum that I politically disagree with but we never get into these arguments because they always back their points with facts. And I totally respect it.

This LEB01 character came on here, and he's been saying "thug, persian, terrorist" etc...Most of the things he's saying do not make sense. He says shia invaded beirut while infact there are at least 50,000 voters. He says israel invaded in 78 (limited invasion) while israel invaded again in 82 (full scale). He says he is in North East beirut but then he says he's from the south. He says that only hariri represents sunni muslims while in fact there are others.

Every post I made I tried to backup with a US source, so that no one says I'm lying or using propaganda. I asked him 5 times to prove how hezbollah terrorizes people in the south he couldn't answer, it was just a lie. I asked him to prove he is lebanese, he replied back to me with broken arabic. Then he sends me hateful private messages and tells me to stop watching almanar (mind you i haven't used any of their sources on here).


He denied the massacre ever happened (except there is video), he said some politicians did not say things (while in fact 99% of the lebanese heard it). I know what he is trying to accomplish, but he can at least do it with supporting facts.

khukuri
05-17-2008, 05:50 PM
ONE:


Seriously

Do you think what is Hezbullah did in these last events was justified, and do you think the Lebanese have benefited from this? Dont answers me with your questions, as you usually do. Just give me a straight answer.

Another question, dont you think Hizbullah has gone over the limit when using their guns internally. Dont reply me with harir has secure on yadayada ya, just a plain answer.

Dont you think its time for hezbollah to disarm and engage in party politics only. I understand the need for a small protection force, like the other parties ones, but hezbollah has more or less an army.

LEB101
05-17-2008, 06:23 PM
ONE:


Seriously

Do you think what is Hezbullah did in these last events was justified, and do you think the Lebanese have benefited from this? Dont answers me with your questions, as you usually do. Just give me a straight answer.

Another question, dont you think Hizbullah has gone over the limit when using their guns internally. Dont reply me with harir has secure on yadayada ya, just a plain answer.

Dont you think its time for hezbollah to disarm and engage in party politics only. I understand the need for a small protection force, like the other parties ones, but hezbollah has more or less an army.
he will not answer becuase he is brainwahsed into thinking hezbollah is the best .

LEB101
05-17-2008, 06:25 PM
there is no war :)

There are a few other lebanese members on this forum that I politically disagree with but we never get into these arguments because they always back their points with facts. And I totally respect it.

This LEB01 character came on here, and he's been saying "thug, persian, terrorist" etc...Most of the things he's saying do not make sense. He says shia invaded beirut while infact there are at least 50,000 voters. He says israel invaded in 78 (limited invasion) while israel invaded again in 82 (full scale). He says he is in North East beirut but then he says he's from the south. He says that only hariri represents sunni muslims while in fact there are others.

Every post I made I tried to backup with a US source, so that no one says I'm lying or using propaganda. I asked him 5 times to prove how hezbollah terrorizes people in the south he couldn't answer, it was just a lie. I asked him to prove he is lebanese, he replied back to me with broken arabic. Then he sends me hateful private messages and tells me to stop watching almanar (mind you i haven't used any of their sources on here).


He denied the massacre ever happened (except there is video), he said some politicians did not say things (while in fact 99% of the lebanese heard it). I know what he is trying to accomplish, but he can at least do it with supporting facts.
i never saw a video 1st of all i have been shearching for it and have not found nothing plz send me a link . i said i was born in south lebaanon and i now live in north easter part of beirut .and i never said the shia invaded beirut . i said hezbollah did .

ting
05-17-2008, 07:53 PM
there is no war :)

There are a few other lebanese members on this forum that I politically disagree with but we never get into these arguments because they always back their points with facts. And I totally respect it.

This LEB01 character came on here, and he's been saying "thug, persian, terrorist" etc...Most of the things he's saying do not make sense. He says shia invaded beirut while infact there are at least 50,000 voters. He says israel invaded in 78 (limited invasion) while israel invaded again in 82 (full scale). He says he is in North East beirut but then he says he's from the south. He says that only hariri represents sunni muslims while in fact there are others.

Every post I made I tried to backup with a US source, so that no one says I'm lying or using propaganda. I asked him 5 times to prove how hezbollah terrorizes people in the south he couldn't answer, it was just a lie. I asked him to prove he is lebanese, he replied back to me with broken arabic. Then he sends me hateful private messages and tells me to stop watching almanar (mind you i haven't used any of their sources on here).


He denied the massacre ever happened (except there is video), he said some politicians did not say things (while in fact 99% of the lebanese heard it). I know what he is trying to accomplish, but he can at least do it with supporting facts.


Don`t take it upon your self to disprove leb101`s intentions or interpretations. Those who read these posts come with their own baggage(bias if you will). Those who are stupid enough to take any anonymous posters words as the "only truth" don`t matter. Same goes for me. I could be lying constantly, and all you know about me is my nickname and that I`m supposed to be in Norway. I could in fact be Kim Jong Il in Nort-Korea;-). Please keep presenting your view of the situation, and if leb101`s posts irritate you, ignore them. Some will agree with his point of view and have an easier time in accepting his posts at face value. Same goes for your posts, some will find it easier to accept your posts at face value since their views coincide with your views.

ting
05-17-2008, 07:58 PM
no one was forced, they chose to leave. some of them returned some stayed.

Forced is of course a relative term, however even if they would not be persecuted by the government and/or hezbollah, they would have a lot of vengeful people after them. ;)

Snoshi
05-19-2008, 11:55 AM
Talks between Lebanese factions hit new snags

Feuding Lebanese factions holding top-level crisis talks in Qatar hit new snags Monday, with the US-backed government side and the Hezbollah-led opposition disagreeing on how to go forward.

The Hizbullah-led faction issued a statement saying it wants both key issues — a national unity government and a new election law — resolved before returning to Beirut, where the election of Lebanon's next president would follow in parliament. The statement indicated that Arab mediators may have tried to get the sides to at least agree to elect compromise candidate Michel Suleiman as president, while postponing agreement on other points. (AP)

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3545254,00.html

One?
05-19-2008, 06:58 PM
Forced is of course a relative term, however even if they would not be persecuted by the government and/or hezbollah, they would have a lot of vengeful people after them. ;)

Yup you are correct. But for the past couple of years no one has touched the ones that stayed. Some were threatened but nothing happened. Some actually returned from Israel. The ones that will never return are the higher ups, that were in charge of things not the foot soldiers. Also some of the ones that ran the Khiam detention camp. I bet if those return they will be "beaten to death" by the villagers before the government can prosecute them.

Laworkerbee
05-19-2008, 08:13 PM
I'm pretty disappointed One didn't answer khukuri's post.

What the **** over?

-1 Respect.

One?
05-19-2008, 10:36 PM
ONE:


Seriously

Do you think what is Hezbullah did in these last events was justified, and do you think the Lebanese have benefited from this? Dont answers me with your questions, as you usually do. Just give me a straight answer.

Another question, dont you think Hizbullah has gone over the limit when using their guns internally. Dont reply me with harir has secure on yadayada ya, just a plain answer.

Dont you think its time for hezbollah to disarm and engage in party politics only. I understand the need for a small protection force, like the other parties ones, but hezbollah has more or less an army.


I totally apologize for missing your post and not replying. Here goes :)


Do you think what is Hezbullah did in these last events was justified, and do you think the Lebanese have benefited from this? Dont answers me with your questions, as you usually do. Just give me a straight answer.

First I would not put this on hezbollah because the decision was taken by all the opposition parties. It was not hezbollah's decision. Some say the army knew about it and agreed to it.

Was it justified ? Well, if you fight back in self defense then anything is justifiable. I already explained how the opposition has been beaten, shot at etc.. in several other posts.

Do I agree with using guns to kill each other? HELL NO! The civil war taught us that all the leaders are bunch of liars. 2 weeks ago they were enemies and now they are allies, tomorrow they will be enemies again (and I think it's already happening).

Did the lebanese benefit? They somewhat did. They learned that guns never solve anything and they went back to the discussion tables. On the other hand it increased sectarianism which is the dangerous part.

Another question, dont you think Hizbullah has gone over the limit when using their guns internally. Dont reply me with harir has secure on yadayada ya, just a plain answer.

The opposition had the same type of weapons as the other side. Should hezbollah have joined in ? They tried not to in the first 2 days but when their fighters were being slaughtered in cold blood they had no choice but to join. They were forced to join in. All reports from the first 2 days indicate it was Amal, Mouraiboun, Nasriyeen doing the fighting alongside hezbollah advisors except for the hamra street battle. After the Jabal massacare hezbollah was HEAVILY involved.

Dont you think its time for hezbollah to disarm and engage in party politics only. I understand the need for a small protection force, like the other parties ones, but hezbollah has more or less an army.

No one in lebanon should be armed besides the one and only lebanese armed forces.


If the mods will allow me to post the videos of pro-government militias opening fire, on the government from the past couple of years I would galdly do it.

Or you can search youtube for "Aramoun", "arab University", "halba", "LF attacking fpm", "LF attacking army"..there are plenty of pictures too.

Lets no be bias khukuri:)

I'm open to discussion ask anything you want.

Laworkerbee
05-20-2008, 01:50 PM
+1 Respect added back for ONE :)

500
05-20-2008, 02:23 PM
Did the lebanese benefit? They somewhat did. They learned that guns never solve anything and they went back to the discussion tables.
In case of Hez guns did benefit. They blocked ports, siezed Beirut and got what they wanted: government revoked its decissions.

khukuri
05-20-2008, 02:26 PM
+1 Respect added back for ONE :)


x2 thx for reply!

seathru
05-20-2008, 03:04 PM
Sorry if this has been discussed before - but rumor has it that had the crisis in Lebanon lasted longer, the IDF would have intervened?

frenchy
05-20-2008, 03:09 PM
In case of Hez guns did benefit. They blocked ports, siezed Beirut and got what they wanted: government revoked its decissions.

Lebanese government and others groups are scared and weak in comparison with hezzies, what can they do ?

Just looking the Lebanon more divided and risking to be another future islamist state.

Snoshi
05-20-2008, 03:10 PM
Sorry if this has been discussed before - but rumor has it that had the crisis in Lebanon lasted longer, the IDF would have intervened?

IDF meybe would have interfered if
1. A real civil war would have started where HA would use most of its forces
2. If Hezbollah would take over the Lebanese goverment and take power of the country.

LEB101
05-20-2008, 03:15 PM
I totally apologize for missing your post and not replying. Here goes :)


Do you think what is Hezbullah did in these last events was justified, and do you think the Lebanese have benefited from this? Dont answers me with your questions, as you usually do. Just give me a straight answer.

First I would not put this on hezbollah because the decision was taken by all the opposition parties. It was not hezbollah's decision. Some say the army knew about it and agreed to it.

Was it justified ? Well, if you fight back in self defense then anything is justifiable. I already explained how the opposition has been beaten, shot at etc.. in several other posts.

Do I agree with using guns to kill each other? HELL NO! The civil war taught us that all the leaders are bunch of liars. 2 weeks ago they were enemies and now they are allies, tomorrow they will be enemies again (and I think it's already happening).

Did the lebanese benefit? They somewhat did. They learned that guns never solve anything and they went back to the discussion tables. On the other hand it increased sectarianism which is the dangerous part.

Another question, dont you think Hizbullah has gone over the limit when using their guns internally. Dont reply me with harir has secure on yadayada ya, just a plain answer.

The opposition had the same type of weapons as the other side. Should hezbollah have joined in ? They tried not to in the first 2 days but when their fighters were being slaughtered in cold blood they had no choice but to join. They were forced to join in. All reports from the first 2 days indicate it was Amal, Mouraiboun, Nasriyeen doing the fighting alongside hezbollah advisors except for the hamra street battle. After the Jabal massacare hezbollah was HEAVILY involved.

Dont you think its time for hezbollah to disarm and engage in party politics only. I understand the need for a small protection force, like the other parties ones, but hezbollah has more or less an army.

No one in lebanon should be armed besides the one and only lebanese armed forces.


If the mods will allow me to post the videos of pro-government militias opening fire, on the government from the past couple of years I would galdly do it.

Or you can search youtube for "Aramoun", "arab University", "halba", "LF attacking fpm", "LF attacking army"..there are plenty of pictures too.

Lets no be bias khukuri:)

I'm open to discussion ask anything you want.
so if the goverment makes a decicion its ok for hezbollah to invade lebanon . thats one thing you said thats wrong . the halba massacre i totally diagree with The SSNP members did open fire first but i dont think it was right to kill them . all these videos of lf attack who knows and armouar are all on sided its like the news you can post what ever you want . so plz stop defneding thugs that take oerders from iran and kill there fellwo lebanese brothers

LEB101
05-20-2008, 03:17 PM
no matter what you say ONE . it was not and never will be ok for hezbollah and amal thugs to turn there weapons witch they should have gave up in 200 on lebanon . that proves they are working for an outside force (iran and syria )

abe87
05-20-2008, 03:58 PM
LEB101, what you are constantly forgetting is that those parties were constantly picking on Hezbollah, all the time. Even if they were regarded as a resistance and had "the right" to exist according to Lebanese law, they were still picked at. You know what I'm saying? Picking on them all the time for several years.

Now, when there was a peaceful demonstration where they (workers) wanted higher salary, they got attacked by pro-government militas.

What you're also forgetting is that the pro-government have under SEVERAL CASES used THEIR weapons to ignite a civil war. Have you forgotten when they started to shoot randomly on houses during night? Have you suddently forgotten that?

In some eyes, some regard Hezbollah's actions as "justified" because in term of self-defense, they can defend themselves because they were being shot at BY MILITIAS.

LEB101
05-20-2008, 04:02 PM
LEB101, what you are constantly forgetting is that those parties were constantly picking on Hezbollah, all the time. Even if they were regarded as a resistance and had "the right" to exist according to Lebanese law, they were still picked at. You know what I'm saying? Picking on them all the time for several years.

Now, when there was a peaceful demonstration where they (workers) wanted higher salary, they got attacked by pro-government militas.

What you're also forgetting is that the pro-government have under SEVERAL CASES used THEIR weapons to ignite a civil war. Have you forgotten when they started to shoot randomly on houses during night? Have you suddently forgotten that?

In some eyes, some regard Hezbollah's actions as "justified" because in term of self-defense, they can defend themselves because they were being shot at BY MILITIAS.
they picked on them becuase of there weapons and they picked on them in politics. they never shot at them and invaded there parts of beirut

abe87
05-20-2008, 04:05 PM
they picked on them becuase of there weapons and they picked on them in politics. they never shot at them and invaded there parts of beirut

And those weapons were justified according to Saniora himself.

Hezbollah are highly regarded as a resistance and not a milita all around the arab world.

Let me ask you again. Who is trying to ignite a civil war when pro-government militas (which should not carry weapons AT ALL) started to shoot randomly at civilian houses during night (with proof too!)?! <--- Just one example of several others.

Hezbollah acted in self-defense because they were shot at.
Invade? Lol, like "Secure +" didn't invade Beirut then with their weapons?

Hezbollah cleaned those area from militas who should not carry weapons at all and handed over the area to the Lebanese army.

Snoshi
05-20-2008, 04:11 PM
Abe really.. Are you claiming that HA dint not plan this? Are you claiming that it was not Nasrallah's declaration of war that started the clashed? Btw after this clash, many arabs view HA as tool of Iran and Syria.. After all HA promised not to use their weapons on Lebanese

LEB101
05-20-2008, 04:11 PM
And those weapons were justified according to Saniora himself.

Hezbollah are highly regarded as a resistance and not a milita all around the arab world.

Let me ask you again. Who is trying to ignite a civil war when pro-government militas (which should not carry weapons AT ALL) started to shoot randomly at civilian houses during night (with proof too!)?! <--- Just one example of several others.

Hezbollah acted in self-defense because they were shot at.
Invade? Lol, like "Secure +" didn't invade Beirut then with their weapons?

Hezbollah cleaned those area from militas who should not carry weapons at all and handed over the area to the Lebanese army.
they invaded beirut and tried to invade the moutains . all beacuse the goverment told them they have to put there illigal communications under goverment control . and they fired the airport chief. so if america fired a chife certains parties have a right to use there weapons against other people. no no and no you are wrong no matter what you say . hezbollag is a resisitance whenb it comes to israel not fellow lebanese . i wonder how gebran tweni and anti-syrian firgure in lebanbon was killed only a few mintues after leaving the airport . and no one knew he was coming to lebanon. (cameras that the airport chief allowed hezbollah to use ). again hezbollah is no longer a resistance in the eyes of 70 percent of lebanon

LEB101
05-20-2008, 04:13 PM
Abe really.. Are you claiming that HA dint not plan this? Are you claiming that it was not Nasrallah's declaration of war that started the clashed? Btw after this clash, many arabs view HA as tool of Iran and Syria.. After all HA promised not to use their weapons on Lebanese
to much al manar . not much reality

abe87
05-20-2008, 04:13 PM
Abe really.. Are you claiming that HA dint not plan this? Are you claiming that it was not Nasrallah's declaration of war that started the clashed? Btw after this clash, many arabs view HA as tool of Iran and Syria.. After all HA promised not to use their weapons on Lebanese

Perhaps they were already aware of this, since "attacking" the Network infrastructure of Hezbollah was known long before, there could have been cases they planned to defend themselves if they were attacked by militas (which they were). Because they also regard that network a part of their weapons, it would be like illegalising those weapons.

Oh come on Snoshi :) If your brother keeps picking on you, wouldn't you give him a punch in the face? Wahahah! :-*$

abe87
05-20-2008, 04:14 PM
to much al manar . not much reality

Too much Ya Libnan and not much reality.

LEB101
05-20-2008, 04:18 PM
Too much Ya Libnan and not much reality.
ya libnan is a good site . al marnar is fake proporganda . even a blind man can see that

Snoshi
05-20-2008, 04:18 PM
Perhaps they were already aware of this, since "attacking" the Network infrastructure of Hezbollah was known long before, there could have been cases they planned to defend themselves if they were attacked by militas (which they were). Because they also regard that network a part of their weapons, it would be like illegalising those weapons.

Oh come on Snoshi :) If your brother keeps picking on you, wouldn't you give him a punch in the face? Wahahah! :-*$

Claiming that FM had a "militia" is ridiculous.. HA is a militia.. FM just had kids with weapons who surrendered at fist opportunity.

So what does not count as "weapons of resistance"? HA is creating a state inside a state and government cant enforce the laws? The fighting started after Nasrallahs speech when he declared war on the government.. Also give me a source that proves your claim that FM started the fighting.

abe87
05-20-2008, 04:18 PM
they invaded beirut and tried to invade the moutains . all beacuse the goverment told them they have to put there illigal communications under goverment control . and they fired the airport chief. so if america fired a chife certains parties have a right to use there weapons against other people. no no and no you are wrong no matter what you say . hezbollag is a resisitance whenb it comes to israel not fellow lebanese . i wonder how gebran tweni and anti-syrian firgure in lebanbon was killed only a few mintues after leaving the airport . and no one knew he was coming to lebanon. (cameras that the airport chief allowed hezbollah to use ). again hezbollah is no longer a resistance in the eyes of 70 percent of lebanon

You believe they would start to use their weapons if they removed the head of the security at the airport? I don't think so. But removing him without conducting no sort of investigation and thinking there are some "allegded" connections to Hezbollah, something must be planned against Hezbollah?

As for invanding the mountaints, I don't know about that part and I'll keep my mouth shut regarding that before I search more about the reason. One reason was to give them a punch in the face and remove any militas using weapons. (Still I wonder why SSNP or Amal get to use weapons, they should not be used as well).

LEB101
05-20-2008, 04:20 PM
hezbollah thinks they can run the country . they decided to leave the goverment becuase iran told them to . that way they can bring down the goverment and establish a khomenist goverment . and that will happen over the dead body of all peace and freedom loving lebanese people

Snoshi
05-20-2008, 04:21 PM
You believe they would start to use their weapons if they removed the head of the security at the airport? I don't think so. But removing him without conducting no sort of investigation and thinking there are some "allegded" connections to Hezbollah, something must be planned against Hezbollah?

As for invanding the mountaints, I don't know about that part and I'll keep my mouth shut regarding that before I search more about the reason. One reason was to give them a punch in the face and remove any militas using weapons. (Still I wonder why SSNP or Amal get to use weapons, they should not be used as well).

Hezbollah became a militia when they used their weapons against Lebanese. They lost all of their excuse to keep the weapons. HA acted like a mafia. And its not job of the "resistance" to "disarm" fellow Lebanese.

Whats the diffrence between HA and FM expect that HA is ruled from Syria and Iran?

LEB101
05-20-2008, 04:22 PM
You believe they would start to use their weapons if they removed the head of the security at the airport? I don't think so. But removing him without conducting no sort of investigation and thinking there are some "allegded" connections to Hezbollah, something must be planned against Hezbollah?

As for invanding the mountaints, I don't know about that part and I'll keep my mouth shut regarding that before I search more about the reason. One reason was to give them a punch in the face and remove any militas using weapons. (Still I wonder why SSNP or Amal get to use weapons, they should not be used as well).
see this shows you know as much about lebanon as my shoe . you didnt even know about the 4 day battles in the moutain maybe because hezbollah was dropping like flys and they dont say nothing about that on al manar ya hmar

abe87
05-20-2008, 04:27 PM
Claiming that FM had a "militia" is ridiculous.. HA is a militia.. FM just had kids with weapons who surrendered at fist opportunity.

So what does not count as "weapons of resistance"? HA is creating a state inside a state and government cant enforce the laws? The fighting started after Nasrallahs speech when he declared war on the government.. Also give me a source that proves your claim that FM started the fighting.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-security12-2008may12,0,6458359.story


BEIRUT -- For a year, the main Lebanese political faction backed by the United States built a Sunni Muslim militia here under the guise of private security companies, Lebanese security experts and officials said.

The fighters, aligned with Saad Hariri's Future movement, were trained and armed to counter the heavily armed Shiite Muslim militant group Hezbollah and protect their turf in a potential military confrontation.



Hezbollah also organizes extensive social development programs, running hospitals, news services, and educational facilities. Social services have a central role in the party's programs. Most experts believe that Hezbollah's social and health programs are worth hundreds of millions of dollars annually http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah#Social_services

As you can see, the current Lebanese government has failed to provide a lot of these services, and that's why some of you might regard Hezbollah creating a state within a state - Just for the plain fact they want to help people, which in turn will increase their popularity.

The Lebanese Government, with the help of Saudi Arabia have been trying to create a counter-weight against Hezbollah, according to Seymour Hersh.
The United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) is widely thought to have planned for these events and to have armed the Future Movement, the Lebanese Forces and the Progressive Socialist Party to oppose and discredit Hezbollah,[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Lebanon_Conflict#cite_note-20)[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Lebanon_Conflict#cite_note-21) after failed attempts to disarm the group during the 2006 Israel-Lebanon War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Israel-Lebanon_War) and the 2007 Lebanon conflict (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Lebanon_conflict), which journalist Seymour Hersh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh) believed to be the work of the the U.S and Saudi Arabia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia), through Bandar bin Sultan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandar_bin_Sultan).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Lebanon_Conflict#Background Can't you see a pattern, where they are tactically are trying to hurt Hezbollah?

And at last, I don't have a source for specifically FM attacking demonstrators, but pro-government were shooting at them.

I also would like you to read this site as well :) http://www.counterpunch.org/lamb05162008.html

abe87
05-20-2008, 04:32 PM
see this shows you know as much about lebanon as my shoe . you didnt even know about the 4 day battles in the moutain maybe because hezbollah was dropping like flys and they dont say nothing about that on al manar ya hmar



The Druze used snipers, mortars and even twin-barreled 23mm anti-aircraft guns to blast at the advancing Hezbollah. However, opposition fighters were backed up by Katyusha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyusha_rocket_launcher) rockets fired from southern Beirut in support of the Hezbollah offensive. Opposition forces bombarded the pro-government Druze area with artillery while ground forces attacked Druze positions using rockets and machine guns.[44] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Lebanon_Conflict#cite_note-43) After several hours of fighting Hezbollah managed to overrun the PSP positions. By morning the pro-government Druze fighters agreed to a surrender and control of several villages loyal to Lebanon's pro-government Druze leader Walid Jumblatt had been handed to the army[42] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Lebanon_Conflict#cite_note-BBC_May_11-41). All of their weapons were confiscated by Hezbollah and the PSP retreated from the region.[45] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Lebanon_Conflict#cite_note-44) 17 Hezbollah fighters died in the battle,[46] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Lebanon_Conflict#cite_note-45) 11 of them in the mountain town of Chouweifat,[47] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Lebanon_Conflict#cite_note-46) along with at least 17 PSP militiamen and two civilians.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Lebanon_Conflict#Battle_of_Mount_Barook

There is more written there, so take your time reading the site above I just provided.

And also, if I were you. I would refrain from saying "ya hmar" all the time, because that just looses some of your creditbility.

Snoshi
05-20-2008, 04:33 PM
You got LA times and i got NY times.. And it looks like NYT is more correct

In late 2006, sectarian street battles began taking place in mixed Sunni-Shiite neighborhoods, mostly among young followers of Mr. Hariri’s Future Movement and the Amal Party, a Hezbollah ally. The fighting was prompted by hard feelings after Hezbollah’s withdrawal from the cabinet and its subsequent campaign to bring down Mr. Siniora, who refused to step down despite the resignation of all the cabinet’s Shiite ministers.

As the conflict grew worse, there were rumors that Mr. Hariri was training a Sunni militia to counter Hezbollah, and even cultivating links with jihadists.

But when the battle finally broke wide open just over a week ago, a different reality emerged.

Hezbollah and its allies, angered by government decisions that threatened the group’s communication network, sent their fighters into the streets, blocking crucial roads and skirmishing with Sunni militia fighters. Mr. Nasrallah had labeled the government’s actions a declaration of war, but it was a war only one side was prepared for.
Meanwhile, as the street fighting went on in west Beirut on May 8 Mr. Hariri’s Sunni militia had proved to be largely mythical: its fighters were quickly thrashed. Some were given orders not to fight, so as to avoid a massacre.

The next day, as Hezbollah fighters and their allies were taking control of west Beirut, one Sunni fighter ran up to a group of young men in the Sunni stronghold of Tarik Jadideh and told them it was over.

“Hurry up, run away, it is over, there is nothing left,” the gunman said, before running off himself. “They are coming after us, and this time with shoes, not weapons, to humiliate us even more.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/world/middleeast/18lebanon.html?pagewanted=1&hp

So claiming that FM was trained by US or SA is ridiculous in the light how the performed in Beirut.
HA does not have money for to run the social programs and where do you think the money comes from?
And please dont quote Counter Punch and Hers with their baseless commentary.

Snoshi
05-20-2008, 04:35 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Lebanon_Conflict#Battle_of_Mount_Barook

There is more written there, so take your time reading the site above I just provided.

And also, if I were you. I would refrain from saying "ya hmar" all the time, because that just looses some of your creditbility.

Nice that you give an Wikipedia article that lacks sources and was edited by HA.. Again i would like to see PSP AA guns

drox123
05-20-2008, 04:35 PM
I hope lebanon will have capable army that can defeat the hizz and other terror groups because if not they are in deep problem if a terror group can overthrow the governmant

LEB101
05-20-2008, 04:39 PM
Nice that you give an Wikipedia article that lacks sources and was edited by HA.. Again i would like to see PSP AA guns
there was no AA guns . and the article says the advancing hezbollah meanins hezbollah was attack and they did use katushas against the jabal. there own country .what a resistance I am so proud of my resistance heros that attack me and my fellow lebanese ..

abe87
05-20-2008, 04:39 PM
You got LA times and i got NY times.. And it looks like NYT is more correct

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/world/middleeast/18lebanon.html?pagewanted=1&hp

So claiming that FM was trained by US or SA is ridiculous in the light how the performed in Beirut.
HA does not have money for to run the social programs and where do you think the money comes from?
And please dont quote Counter Punch and Hers with their baseless commentary.

Because they were just given basic training from the US and 'normal' weapons. Hezbollah's men were much more trained for this type of combat.

The money comes from Iran, but those money benefits the people. I don't see anything wrong with that, do you?

Why should I not quote them? :) They are honoured for being very good reporters. The fact that he was able to prove there were talks of having a green-light from the US before the Second Lebanon War, was proven in the Winograd Commision as well. That's not like he's loosing creditbility, on the contrary, increasing it.

LEB101
05-20-2008, 04:40 PM
I hope lebanon will have capable army that can defeat the hizz and other terror groups because if not they are in deep problem if a terror group can overthrow the governmant
inshallah one day we will be stong enught to defeat hezbollah and all other iranian and syrian terror groups

abe87
05-20-2008, 04:40 PM
I hope lebanon will have capable army that can defeat the hizz and other terror groups because if not they are in deep problem if a terror group can overthrow the governmant

I hope that as well, but not by "defeating" the Hezbollah. That's not how it should be solved. Dialogue was proven the best option after Hezbollah whiped militas from the street.

It would be much better if the Lebanese army was capable at all defending its country, because the US itself forbids the army from gaining advanced weaponry if fear from being used against Israel.

LEB101
05-20-2008, 04:41 PM
Because they were just given basic training from the US and 'normal' weapons. Hezbollah's men were much more trained for this type of combat.

The money comes from Iran, but those money benefits the people. I don't see anything wrong with that, do you?

Why should I not quote them? :) They are honoured for being very good reporters. The fact that he was able to prove there were talks of having a green-light from the US, was proven in the Winograd Commision as well. That's not like he's loosing creditbility, on the contrary, increasing it.
getting money from iran to buy weapons is wrong

abe87
05-20-2008, 04:42 PM
inshallah one day we will be stong enught to defeat hezbollah and all other iranian and syrian terror groups

I hope one day we will be able to defeat all kind of Al-Qaida inspired terrorists just like in Nahr al-Bared, where the government and the US was supporting to fight against Hezbollah.

Now, that shows the true face of the Lebanese Government you so happily support.

abe87
05-20-2008, 04:43 PM
getting money from iran to buy weapons is wrong

Spending money to wage war, be it Hezbollah, Israel, USA or any other country is wrong. Let's not speak about double standads, please? :bash:

Nobody wants war, but some are forced to buy them in order to protect themselves.

"Best way to prevent wars is to arm for wars."

Snoshi
05-20-2008, 04:45 PM
Because they were just given basic training from the US and 'normal' weapons. Hezbollah's men were much more trained for this type of combat.

The money comes from Iran, but those money benefits the people. I don't see anything wrong with that, do you?

Why should I not quote them? :) They are honoured for being very good reporters. The fact that he was able to prove there were talks of having a green-light from the US, was proven in the Winograd Commision as well. That's not like he's loosing creditbility, on the contrary, increasing it.

Again they had no basic training, they had no uniforms, they only had AK's etc.. They were crushed in less then a day.. I dont see any signs that pointed towards that they received any training at all.

You see nothing wrong with it? What about that Iran gives money to the Lebanese government that will do the same things in the south? Why are they supplying money to a militia?

Honoured by who? And give me a source from WC that says that Israel got a "green light".. and of course that before any large action is taken by Israel, it must consult with USA.. That does not mean that US said to Israel " Bomb Lebanon".

LEB101
05-20-2008, 04:45 PM
I hope one day we will be able to defeat all kind of Al-Qaida inspired terrorists just like in Nahr al-Bared, where the government and the US was supporting to fight against Hezbollah.

Now, that shows the true face of the Lebanese Government you so happily support.
nahar el bared was supported by syria . i already mentioned them look good . leanr how to read . i said iranian and SYRIAN terror groups . we dont have to qworry about al qada there is not alot of them in lebanon and the ones hears cant really do anything becuase our army will crush them . its hezbollah amal ssnp and other terror groups that are more powerful then the army we have to worry about them

drox123
05-20-2008, 04:46 PM
I hope that as well, but not by "defeating" the Hezbollah. That's not how it should be solved. Dialogue was proven the best option after Hezbollah whiped militas from the street.

It would be much better if the Lebanese army was capable at all defending its country, because the US itself forbids the army from gaining advanced weaponry if fear from being used against Israel.
We didnt attack Lebanon because we have problem with them as a nation we did it because the hizz if the hizz will not exist everything will be ok between israel and lebanon(at least from our side dont know about them)

Snoshi
05-20-2008, 04:46 PM
I hope one day we will be able to defeat all kind of Al-Qaida inspired terrorists just like in Nahr al-Bared, where the government and the US was supporting to fight against Hezbollah.

Now, that shows the true face of the Lebanese Government you so happily support.

You mean Syrian supported groups like in Nahr Al Bared?

LEB101
05-20-2008, 04:47 PM
We didnt attack Lebanon because we have problem with them as a nation we did it because the hizz if the hizz will not exist everything will be ok between israel and lebanon(at least from our side dont know about them)
ignore him al manar told him something and no one not even god can change that for him

abe87
05-20-2008, 04:47 PM
We didnt attack Lebanon because we have problem with them as a nation we did it because the hizz if the hizz will not exist everything will be ok between israel and lebanon(at least from our side dont know about them)

Egypt, Jordanian, Syra and those countries didn't have militas and yet there was a state against a state war.

drox123
05-20-2008, 04:48 PM
ignore him al manar told him something and no one not even god can change that for him
What do you mean?

abe87
05-20-2008, 04:48 PM
ignore him al manar told him something and no one not even god can change that for him

You're unbelievable, you know that? Al Manar here and there?

abe87
05-20-2008, 04:48 PM
What do you mean?

He thinks, because I prove my facts with sources (which are not from al manar between), he thinks I'm speaking from the Al Manar news source. LOL

abe87
05-20-2008, 04:49 PM
You mean Syrian supported groups like in Nahr Al Bared?

What makes you think it's Syrian?

drox123
05-20-2008, 04:49 PM
Egypt, Jordanian, Syra and those countries didn't have militas and yet there was a state against a state war.
With them we have problems they attacked us tried to invade Israel if i dont have a mistake 6/7 arab countries

Snoshi
05-20-2008, 04:50 PM
Egypt, Jordanian, Syra and those countries didn't have militas and yet there was a state against a state war.

After 1948 Israel thought that Lebanon would be one of the first states to sign a peace deal with Israel, because Israel and Lebanon had "no problems" with each other.. But all that chanced when Palestinians came and right now Palestinians are "neutralized" but instead you have HA..

LEB101
05-20-2008, 04:51 PM
He thinks, because I prove my facts with sources (which are not from al manar between), he thinks I'm speaking from the Al Manar news source. LOL
you are beacuse the things you are saying i never heard before no one has

Snoshi
05-20-2008, 04:51 PM
What makes you think it's Syrian?


MJT: Do you think the Syrians are behind the war of the camps raging in Lebanon now, or does this conflict match the timing of the UN tribunal coincidentally?

Rubin: I definitely think the Syrians are behind it. Let’s look at the facts:

Step 1: Syria wants to sponsor violence and terrorism in Lebanon to bring that country back under its control and intimidate the Lebanese from supporting an international tribunal to investigate and punish those responsible for murdering Lebanon’s most popular politician, former prime minister Rafiq Hariri and 22 bystanders on February 14, 2005. Since all the evidence points at Syria’s leaders as the murderers, killing the investigation is their highest priority. The timing of this uprising came at the very moment that the UN Security Council was voting to hold the tribunal

Step 2: Organize and order a shadowy group of terrorists, called Fatah al-Islam, to disrupt Lebanon.

Step 3: And this is the scheme’s most clever part, blame the terrorism on your victim, Lebanon’s own government, and your enemy, the United States. Get some gullible or ideologically inclined journalists to talk to Syrian officials, be fed this line, and then spread it throughout the world.

So how do we know that the uprising in the Palestinian camp of Nahr al-Bared in northern Lebanon, which killed well over 100 people and led the Lebanese army to shell the camp, was a Syrian operation?

Well, first, the group itself Fatah al-Islam, is merely part of an older group, Fatah al-Intifada which has been a Syrian front group for almost 25 years. That is a rather strong hint of whose these people are and from where their pay and arms come. But there is much more.

The leader of this group is a man by the name of Colonel Abu Khaled al-Amleh. And he lives and operates out of Damascus, Syria. The Syrians do not let terrorist groups function in the country unless the regime likes them and finds them useful. That is also a major piece of evidence. But we are just getting started.

The field commander of the group is a man named Shaker al-Absi. He has been working as a Syrian agent since 1983. In 2003, Absi joined the insurgency in Iraq against the Western forces there. Of course, Syria is the insurgency’s main sponsor. Hundreds of fighters cross the Syria-Iraq border, reportedly there is a special government bus that takes them to a good jumping-off point. This record reinforces the idea that Absi is working for Syria.

In Iraq, Absi worked with Abu Mus’ab al-Zarqawi, the head of al-Qaida—Usama bin Ladin’s group—there. There is no inconsistency here. After all, when Syria helps the insurgency, most of the forces they assist are led by al-Qaida. While al-Qaida is by no means controlled by Syria, the radical duo has some common interests.

Mr. Absi was involved in the murder of a U.S. diplomat, Lawrence Foley, in Jordan on October 28, 2003. Naturally, the Jordanians wanted Syria to extradite him so he could be questioned and punished. Syria refused, clearly because its regime would not benefit from having Absi tell what he knew, especially about Syria’s own role in his activities. In 2004, Jordan sentenced Absi to death in absentia.

So instead of turning him over to Jordan, the Syrian authorities announced that they were going to punish Absi themselves. Accordingly, they claimed Absi was sentenced to three years imprisonment for his violent actions in their own country. Three years is a joke. Those terrorists who attack the Syrian regime are given a death sentence or very long sentences, though often they happen to die conveniently in a manner that used to be described as “trying to escape.”

And of course there is no evidence that Absi was ever in prison and certainly not for three years since only two years later he is back in business as a terrorist. For all we know during this period in between he was living very nicely and engaged in training himself and others.

On being “released,” in November 2005, Absi comes back to Syria and goes to Lebanon. Again, if the Syrian government thought he would do anything against their interests there he would not have been allowed to go so easily and conveniently. Immediately, Absi “split” his old group and began Fatah al-Islam. The ideology of the group, merging Arab nationalism and Islamism, is very much in line with Syria’s current political doctrine.

Within Lebanon today, independent and pro-government newspapers have run detailed articles about Absi, his Syrian credentials, and the motives of Damascus for bashing Lebanon. Since Hariri’s murder three years ago, there have been 15 major terrorist attacks, mostly aimed at assassinating critics of Syrian attempts to dominate Lebanon. There is a pattern here.

Meanwhile, Syrian officials have been briefing some Western journalists, who know no Arabic and have no serious background in studying the Middle East. They tell these people that Fatah al-Islam is a front for Lebanon’s government and even the United States. There is no evidence that this is true. What is telling is that the articles published use precisely the same phrases employed by Syrian officials about 48 hours earlier.

The situation in Lebanon is complicated. But the majority of Lebanese want their country to be independent. They suffered under 20 years of Syrian occupation which looted the country and repressed its people systematically. The moderate, democratic leadership needs and deserves Western support against a terrorist offensive directed by the neighboring dictatorship. It would be a pity to be fooled, by such transparent schemes as the Fatah al-Islam affair, into supporting the oppressors.
http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001458.html

LEB101
05-20-2008, 04:52 PM
After 1948 Israel thought that Lebanon would be one of the first states to sign a peace deal with Israel, because Israel and Lebanon had "no problems" with each other.. But all that chanced when Palestinians came and right now Palestinians are "neutralized" but instead you have HA..
witch is even worse the palis fight for palistine . but hezbollah fight for iran

abe87
05-20-2008, 04:52 PM
Again they had no basic training, they had no uniforms, they only had AK's etc.. They were crushed in less then a day.. I dont see any signs that pointed towards that they received any training at all.

You see nothing wrong with it? What about that Iran gives money to the Lebanese government that will do the same things in the south? Why are they supplying money to a militia?

Honoured by who? And give me a source from WC that says that Israel got a "green light".. and of course that before any large action is taken by Israel, it must consult with USA.. That does not mean that US said to Israel " Bomb Lebanon".

They were scared of being annihiliated, they knew Hezbollah was going to crush them, so they retreated.

We all know the Lebanese Government is so corrupt, it's known among all Lebanese they don't deserve the money. You can ask anyone.

I will give you a source later stating there were talks between Olmert and the US government before the war began. I'm going to logout in a moment.

Nice debating, you're so much better than LEB101. He's just unbelievable. ^^

LEB101
05-20-2008, 04:54 PM
They were scared of being annihiliated, they knew Hezbollah was going to crush them, so they retreated.

We all know the Lebanese Government is so corrupt, it's known among all Lebanese they don't deserve the money. You can ask anyone.

I will give you a source later stating there were talks between Olmert and the US government before the war began. I'm going to logout in a moment.

Nice debating, you're so much better than LEB101. He's just unbelievable. ^^
unbleivable beacuse he knows whats going on in lebanon so you cant lie to him right . ill call you mr. manar from now on

abe87
05-20-2008, 04:54 PM
http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001458.html


Thanks, I will read that tomorrow as I have no time today.

drox123
05-20-2008, 04:55 PM
If we had a good political leadership and military leadership we probably would invade south lebanon and we would take control on the hizz i hope the next war against them will be ok but im afraid that it will not if foolmert will continue to be the prime minister

abe87
05-20-2008, 04:55 PM
unbleivable beacuse he knows whats going on in lebanon so you cant lie to him right . ill call you mr. manar from now on

I'm not lying. I'm providing my facts with sources, unlike you who provide from Ya Libnan. Persian Hordes, "The 300". Biggset LoL ever :)

LEB101
05-20-2008, 04:58 PM
I'm not lying. I'm providing my facts with sources, unlike you who provide from Ya Libnan. Persian Hordes, "The 300". Biggset LoL ever :)
hahahah you so funny hahhahaha . the perisans are trying to use lebanon as a base to attack israel and that will happen over the dead body of the 75 percnet of the lebanese who oppose them and there illegal thug terror militia hezbollah

LEB101
05-20-2008, 08:04 PM
syria is pushing for violence in lebanon threw hezbollah so they can retake lebanon and punish our people for loving freedom for another 30 years

One?
05-20-2008, 09:17 PM
Snoshi the future movement had security plus as its cover and they did basic training. The ones in the north were hardcore fighters from Iraq (I will post the link soon).

The FutureMilitia resorted to its sunni majority and relied on the wahabis/salafis of the north to back them up.

The Druze PSP militia is very well trained and armed. No one can deny that fact. Till this day they are refusing to handover the medium/heavy weapons to the army.


500: The army asked the government to withdraw the decisions.

The officer was supposed to be transfered to military court and they will deal with him. The government had no authority to relieve him of his duties.

Atleast hezbollah and the FPM and the rest of the opposition are the only ones fighting for the armenian rights in the Doha Discussions. Hariri and pro-government ministers said "armenians can go get their rights from turkey"....thats the kind of racist government that runs lebanon :)


Leb101: umm do you want to start providing sources for your nonsense? Oh Saudi Arabia will never get to touch lebanon, maybe in there dreams.

LEB101 where were you when the FPM was being arrested and taken to underground prisons and tortured? Where was your Hariri and Sanyoura? Where were you when the FPM was fighting the syrian occupation with nothing but the power of words? Where were you when General Aoun asked the lebanese army to fight the syrian occupation? Or better yet where were your leaders? I know they gave Ghazi Kinaan the key to beirut :)

...hypocrites. Just like Aoun said

There are 2 kinds of kids. There are ones that kill the snake and walk away, and there are ones that pickup the snake after its killed and run around the village claiming they killed it. Those would be the March 14 gang claiming they got rid of syria while in fact for 10 years it was FPM and FPM alone fighting the occupation.

LEB101
05-20-2008, 11:27 PM
Snoshi the future movement had security plus as its cover and they did basic training. The ones in the north were hardcore fighters from Iraq (I will post the link soon).

The FutureMilitia resorted to its sunni majority and relied on the wahabis/salafis of the north to back them up.

The Druze PSP militia is very well trained and armed. No one can deny that fact. Till this day they are refusing to handover the medium/heavy weapons to the army.


500: The army asked the government to withdraw the decisions.

The officer was supposed to be transfered to military court and they will deal with him. The government had no authority to relieve him of his duties.

Atleast hezbollah and the FPM and the rest of the opposition are the only ones fighting for the armenian rights in the Doha Discussions. Hariri and pro-government ministers said "armenians can go get their rights from turkey"....thats the kind of racist government that runs lebanon :)


Leb101: umm do you want to start providing sources for your nonsense? Oh Saudi Arabia will never get to touch lebanon, maybe in there dreams.

LEB101 where were you when the FPM was being arrested and taken to underground prisons and tortured? Where was your Hariri and Sanyoura? Where were you when the FPM was fighting the syrian occupation with nothing but the power of words? Where were you when General Aoun asked the lebanese army to fight the syrian occupation? Or better yet where were your leaders? I know they gave Ghazi Kinaan the key to beirut :)

...hypocrites. Just like Aoun said

There are 2 kinds of kids. There are ones that kill the snake and walk away, and there are ones that pickup the snake after its killed and run around the village claiming they killed it. Those would be the March 14 gang claiming they got rid of syria while in fact for 10 years it was FPM and FPM alone fighting the occupation.
so your basically aaying that the same people that syria supports noe fpm are the ones that it fought before. hmmmmm not. aoun is a syrian traitor like hassan is an iranian traitor . both should be tried along with triators to israel . hezbollah is a thug militia with iranian intrests in mind period . no and ifs or buts . rember who hezbollah says is there supreme leader ... irans own khomeni . go spit your manar talk somwhere else

sepheronx
05-20-2008, 11:33 PM
so your basically aaying that the same people that syria supports noe fpm are the ones that it fought before. hmmmmm not. aoun is a syrian traitor like hassan is an iranian traitor . both should be tried along with triators to israel . hezbollah is a thug militia with iranian intrests in mind period . no and ifs or buts . rember who hezbollah says is there supreme leader ... irans own khomeni . go spit your manar talk somwhere else

Wow, I have never met anyone so Anti Iran. Actually, It makes me sick and want to spit in your face. As I deal with Iranian people a lot at the US consulate, and they are the nicest people ever. Actually, I met Lebanese people. and next to he the US citizens (no, I am not generalizing the US people), they are the worst in terms of behavior.

Israel is really bad too. They kill innocent people too you know. So does the USA, so does Russia, so does Canada, so does the rest of the world. Terrorists or not, we kill each other anyway.

500
05-21-2008, 01:22 AM
500: The army asked the government to withdraw the decisions.

The officer was supposed to be transfered to military court and they will deal with him. The government had no authority to relieve him of his duties.
So why Hez blocked ports and siezed Beirut? They used force as argument and they succeed.

I dont know if they could succeed without using force. But Nasrallah thought that could not, otherwise he would not use it.


Atleast hezbollah and the FPM and the rest of the opposition are the only ones fighting for the armenian rights in the Doha Discussions. Hariri and pro-government ministers said "armenians can go get their rights from turkey"....thats the kind of racist government that runs lebanon
I dont care about your internal issues. I know that pro government are not angels to say the least, I know they are Israel haters too. For me there are just two types of Lebanese:

1) Those who want to use Lebanon in jihad against Israel (no matter what pretexts they use) and who justify existance of militias for this purpose.
2) Those who dont want Lebanon to stay aside of this jihad.

I wish that one of these sides will take over the Lebanon. If it will be 2 - good. If 1 - also not bad. In next war we will get much more targets.

BPEL
05-21-2008, 11:54 AM
Just got back from Qatar, Bahrain and Iraq. Was with the Lebanese delegates in Doha and it was very intense.

Seems we have a solution, may not be an ideal one but a good one nevertheless.

It's good to see this thread is still going.

I think what we have going for now is a birth of a new republic where a national unity government will play a big role to solve all the differences internaly.

The Lebanese politicians were like kids at one point. Each going to their little corners and whispering among themselves which made the Qatary delegates pretty angry. :) I felt embarrassed, but at least they stood by all of them as opposed to Amer Moussa and the rest of the gumbas who had no idea how to offer expert help.

Qatar was very neutral in my opinion and showed the whole arab world what it can achieve under intense pressure.

GeaGea and Gemayel both had the longests faces I have ever seen on them. Hariri was very good and so were the rest of the pro government members and the opposition. Maybe these 2 characters were not happy at all :)

ting
05-21-2008, 12:25 PM
Good that you are back. I was concerned you had been arrested as a "name of country" spy again:lol:.

What is it you do? Are you a journalist or something?

BPEL
05-21-2008, 12:56 PM
Funny the " " place name of country in blank field. It is so true...

I am a freelance journalist and part of a negotiating team in a polit-bureau in Beirut.

I made a new friend from Norway this past weekend as a matter of fact. Was staying at the Sheraton with us. He is an engineer working for Aeorspatiale (spelling). He is on contract for Qatar airways.

ting
05-21-2008, 01:27 PM
We Norwegians are everywhere:lol:

On the political side, I`we gotten the impression that the foreign backers of the government took a hands off approach in effect forcing the government to negotiate on something they have been avoiding for some time. But do you think the current Syrian-Israeli negotiations affected the Lebanese negotiations?

LebaneseMeghwar
05-21-2008, 01:28 PM
hamdilah 3a salemtak w mabruk la 2ilna khaye : )

Power_serj
05-21-2008, 01:31 PM
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1808217,00.html (Violence wins, the militant political coup was successful; Hezbollah now has veto power in Lebanese government decisions)

As of today, Lebanese democracy has ceased to exist. Sad day for democracy.

LEB101
05-21-2008, 01:36 PM
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1808217,00.html (Violence wins, the militant political coup was successful; Hezbollah now has veto power in Lebanese government decisions)

As of today, Lebanese democracy has ceased to exist. Sad day for democracy.
sad day for all lebanese . this just solidifies iran in lebanon . now if khominie does not like something he can veto it from his seat in tehran

boy1000
05-21-2008, 02:27 PM
Just got back from Qatar, Bahrain and Iraq. Was with the Lebanese delegates in Doha and it was very intense.

Seems we have a solution, may not be an ideal one but a good one nevertheless.

It's good to see this thread is still going.

I think what we have going for now is a birth of a new republic where a national unity government will play a big role to solve all the differences internaly.

The Lebanese politicians were like kids at one point. Each going to their little corners and whispering among themselves which made the Qatary delegates pretty angry. :) I felt embarrassed, but at least they stood by all of them as opposed to Amer Moussa and the rest of the gumbas who had no idea how to offer expert help.

Qatar was very neutral in my opinion and showed the whole arab world what it can achieve under intense pressure.

GeaGea and Gemayel both had the longests faces I have ever seen on them. Hariri was very good and so were the rest of the pro government members and the opposition. Maybe these 2 characters were not happy at all :)


BPEL nice to see you back.

I am very impressed that the Lebanese was able to put this together. At this stage I hold my breath to see in the comming days what the text will be. Naturally I am not happy with HZ in the gov, but then again, I hope the unity will bring the best out of anybody. Please I am not terrible optimistic

BPEL
05-21-2008, 02:30 PM
We Norwegians are everywhere:lol:

On the political side, I`we gotten the impression that the foreign backers of the government took a hands off approach in effect forcing the government to negotiate on something they have been avoiding for some time. But do you think the current Syrian-Israeli negotiations affected the Lebanese negotiations?

Personnaly, the "foreign backers" dropped the ball on the pro government forces. Clearly they had an agenda of the "new middle east" but this showed that the "new middle east" may not be suitable for the people of the middle east themselves. Lebanon was about to enter a new flavor of the Sykes Picot agreement.

BPEL
05-21-2008, 02:32 PM
hamdilah 3a salemtak w mabruk la 2ilna khaye : )

Thanks Meghwar, all I can say is allah yekhaleena el Jaysh! Teslam ya 3askar Lebnan.

Not sure on who the New commander of the army will be though. If Suleiman becomes president, then that option is open for discussion. Too bad General Francois was killed. He was to be the choice if M. Suleiman became president.

So much work needs to be done and so little time.

BPEL
05-21-2008, 02:34 PM
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1808217,00.html (Violence wins, the militant political coup was successful; Hezbollah now has veto power in Lebanese government decisions)

As of today, Lebanese democracy has ceased to exist. Sad day for democracy.

Take it easy Power_Serj....this is democracy at its best. Both parties hating each other and working for a better republic is a true sign of Democracy. All arab country in the middle east where we get to vote. Others do not, even the best and most power full allies to the biggest democratic state do not get to pick who their leaders are.


sad day for all lebanese . this just solidifies iran in lebanon . now if khominie does not like something he can veto it from his seat in tehran

shoo beik fayet bel 3ared :). Take it easy Leb101...

BPEL
05-21-2008, 02:41 PM
BPEL nice to see you back.

I am very impressed that the Lebanese was able to put this together. At this stage I hold my breath to see in the comming days what the text will be. Naturally I am not happy with HZ in the gov, but then again, I hope the unity will bring the best out of anybody. Please I am not terrible optimistic

Very good point indeed.

You can't ignore a powerful entity that has over a million followers not to have a show in the government. Its a big chunk of the population. The good news is, everyone is part of the government now. The problem since the 50s has always been a lack of power sharing. Lebanon is a very unique and fragile state. One needs to understand the circumstances of how secterian this country is. It is very difficult to move away from this mentality and hopefully we can achieve that with the new laws.

There are many who are pessimistic, but it is better than what we had in the 2000 election laws which the masterminded by the Syrian Baat party of Lebanon. This way, the new law abolishes that and moves towards the 60s law. May not be the best but still given our fragile environment it is better suited to our conditions. Now we have to work harder...thats all.

boy1000
05-21-2008, 03:05 PM
Very good point indeed.

You can't ignore a powerful entity that has over a million followers not to have a show in the government. Its a big chunk of the population. The good news is, everyone is part of the government now. The problem since the 50s has always been a lack of power sharing. Lebanon is a very unique and fragile state. One needs to understand the circumstances of how secterian this country is. It is very difficult to move away from this mentality and hopefully we can achieve that with the new laws.

There are many who are pessimistic, but it is better than what we had in the 2000 election laws which the masterminded by the Syrian Baat party of Lebanon. This way, the new law abolishes that and moves towards the 60s law. May not be the best but still given our fragile environment it is better suited to our conditions. Now we have to work harder...thats all.


BPEL very rightly put. My concern is that Iran will not let Lebanon evolve into a VERY beatifull peachfull place. My concern is simply that Iran have put so much into HZ the past 4 years that they will go to the full extent to cause a "second front" in the middle East.

I am TRUE beliver in the right to practice any religion or politic, as long it follow a democratic road. I sincerely all party respect the Nation of Lebanon.

500
05-21-2008, 03:25 PM
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1808217,00.html (Violence wins, the militant political coup was successful; Hezbollah now has veto power in Lebanese government decisions)
Sad irony is that Hez has veto in governemnt decisions, but no one has veto on decisions of Hez. Nasrallah can open wars without asking anyone in Lebanon.

Power_serj
05-21-2008, 04:28 PM
Take it easy Power_Serj....this is democracy at its best. Both parties hating each other and working for a better republic is a true sign of Democracy. All arab country in the middle east where we get to vote. Others do not, even the best and most power full allies to the biggest democratic state do not get to pick who their leaders are.



shoo beik fayet bel 3ared :). Take it easy Leb101...

Like Leb101 said, this just gives Iran and Syria more power by proxy and allows Nasrallah to run the government by demanding Hezbollah "lawmakers" to act a certain way. This happened through force, when negotiation is done through force, it's not democracy, it's a newborn autocracy formed by the militant political group Hezbollah.

LEB101
05-21-2008, 04:45 PM
Like Leb101 said, this just gives Iran and Syria more power by proxy and allows Nasrallah to run the government by demanding Hezbollah "lawmakers" to act a certain way. This happened through force, when negotiation is done through force, it's not democracy, it's a newborn autocracy formed by the militant political group Hezbollah.
hezbollah and democracy are to words that will never and should never go together . hezbollah represents iran in lebanon and as we all no there is no such thing as decmocracy in iran

LEB101
05-21-2008, 04:56 PM
In the summer of 1982 Husayn Al-Musawi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Husayn_Al-Musawi), deputy head and official spokesman of Amal, broke with Berri over his willingness to go along with U.S. mediation in Lebanon rather than attack Israeli troops, his membership in the National Salvation Council alongside the Christians,[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amal_Movement#cite_note-12) and his opposition to pledging allegiance to Ayatollah Khomeini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khomeini).[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amal_Movement#cite_note-13)
Musawi formed the Islamist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamist) Islamic Amal (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Islamic_Amal&action=edit&redlink=1) Movement based in Baalbeck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baalbeck). It was aided by the Islamic Republic of Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran) which in the wake of the 1979 Islamic Revolution strove not only to help Lebanon's Shia, but to export the PanIslamic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Islamism) Islamic revolution to the Muslim world, something Musawi strongly supported, saying: "We are her [i.e. the Islamic Republic's] children."

We are seeking to formulate an Islamic society which in the final analysis will produce an Islamic state. ... The Islamic revolution will march to liberate Palestine and Jerusalem, and the Islamic state will then spread its authority over the region of which Lebanon is only a part.` [15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amal_Movement#cite_note-14)
About 1500 members of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_the_Guardians_of_the_Islamic_Revolution) or Pasdaran, arrived in Beqaa Valley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beqaa_Valley) that same time and "directly contributed to ensure the survival and growth of al-Musawi's newly-created small militia," providing training, indoctrination and funding.[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amal_Movement#cite_note-15) Iran was in many ways a natural ally of Shia in Lebanon as it was far larger than Lebanon, oil-rich, and both Shia-majority and Shia-ruled - the only state ruled by Shia. And of course, founder Musa al-Sadr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musa_al-Sadr) had come from Iran. Iran's generous funding meant generous pay for the militias recruits - $150-200 per month plus cost-free education and medical treatment for themselves and their families - that "far exceeded what other [Lebanese] militias were able to offer." This was a major incentive among the impoverished Shi'a community, and induced "a sizable number of Amal fighters [to] defected regularly to the ranks" of Islamic Amal, and later Hizb'allah.[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amal_Movement#cite_note-16)


But while siding with Syria rather the Islamic Republic of Iran seriously weakened Amal, Berri and others in Amal were reluctant to follow Iran's lead. Their reasons reportedly include:

doubt that the policies of revolutionary Iran could solve Lebanon's sectarian problems;
the belief that the Islamic Republic had done little to help solve the 1979 disappearance of Imam Musa al-Sadr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musa_al-Sadr);
and that Iranian Islamic revolutionaries in power had done little to return the favor of Amal's extensive support for Iranian opposition activity against the Shah's regime, such as military training of senior Iranian revolutionaries in Lebanon in camps under Amal's auspices;
alarm that several of "Amal's most loyal friends within Iran's clerical establishment either disappeared or were killed or ousted by Ayatollah Khomeini in the period between 1980-81";
disapproval of the support and encouragement given to the PLO by Islamic revolutionaries in Iran as a natural spearhead in the holy war against Israel, despite the fact that "PLO activity brought considerable trouble and hardship to the south Lebanese Shi'ites."[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amal_Movement#cite_note-17)
Islamic Amal went on to be particularly active in fighting Israel's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel) soldiers in southern Lebanon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon).[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amal_Movement#cite_note-18)
By August 1983 Islamic Amal and Hezbollah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah) were "effectively becoming one under the Hezbollah label,"[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amal_Movement#cite_note-19) and by late 1984 Islamic Amal, along with "all the known major extremist groups" in Lebanon, had been absorbed into Hezbollah


amal was created in lebanon by lebanses and didnt want to take orders from iran . and berri there current leader wanted american intervention in lebanon . but hezbollah witch started out as islamic amal is from its roots is iranian

abe87
05-21-2008, 05:04 PM
Sad irony is that Hez has veto in governemnt decisions, but no one has veto on decisions of Hez. Nasrallah can open wars without asking anyone in Lebanon.


Apart from the tribunal, what's the problem of Hezbollah having veto? "Oh no, the terrorist group has veto! That's the end of democracy!".

Please enlighten me! :)

abe87
05-21-2008, 05:08 PM
Like Leb101 said, this just gives Iran and Syria more power by proxy and allows Nasrallah to run the government by demanding Hezbollah "lawmakers" to act a certain way. This happened through force, when negotiation is done through force, it's not democracy, it's a newborn autocracy formed by the militant political group Hezbollah.

The way I understand your reply, you're just afraid Hezbollah from gaining veto, but you don't know what you should fear. Am I right?

Didn't US use force trying to impose democracy on Iraq?

abe87
05-21-2008, 05:09 PM
hezbollah and democracy are to words that will never and should never go together . hezbollah represents iran in lebanon and as we all no there is no such thing as decmocracy in iran

Why did Lebanese Forces shoot with snipers on civilians? (Just one of few examples)

abe87
05-21-2008, 05:09 PM
BPEL, Good you're back :)

I actually missed reading some of your posts in this thread! :D

abe87
05-21-2008, 05:14 PM
Personnaly, the "foreign backers" dropped the ball on the pro government forces. Clearly they had an agenda of the "new middle east" but this showed that the "new middle east" may not be suitable for the people of the middle east themselves. Lebanon was about to enter a new flavor of the Sykes Picot agreement.

I actually find it odd that US welcome the solution, even though it was they who told the ruling bloc to stay from dialogue until a president was elected. Am I right?

LEB101
05-21-2008, 05:52 PM
what does the lebanese forces have to do with anything we are talking about abe87 you are living in a wonderland . the lebanese forces have not had weapons since 1990 . hezbollah is the thug group that used it weaponson civilians two weeks ago

LEB101
05-21-2008, 05:53 PM
The way I understand your reply, you're just afraid Hezbollah from gaining veto, but you don't know what you should fear. Am I right?

Didn't US use force trying to impose democracy on Iraq?
what are you saying . please re-read your post so people can understand them

abe87
05-21-2008, 05:55 PM
what does the lebanese forces have to do with anything we are talking about abe87 you are living in a wonderland . the lebanese forces have not had weapons since 1990 . hezbollah is the thug group that used it weaponson civilians two weeks ago

We are talking about people trying to ignite a civil war by shooting at civilians to cause panic and revenge.

abe87
05-21-2008, 05:56 PM
what are you saying . please re-read your post so people can understand them

What am I saying? I'm saying, what does he fear for? He's just saying "act in a certain way" which proves he does not know what to fear but the "act in a certain" way.

LEB101
05-21-2008, 05:57 PM
We are talking about people trying to ignite a civil war by shooting at civilians to cause panic and revenge.
my orginal post was
hezbollah and democracy are to words that will never and should never go together . hezbollah represents iran in lebanon and as we all no there is no such thing as decmocracy in iran
what we are trying to say is hezbollah is no way shape or form democratic . if they were they would have never attack west beirut and jabal lubnan becuase of a political choice by a democraticaly elceted goverment

LEB101
05-21-2008, 05:58 PM
What am I saying? I'm saying, what does he fear for? He's just saying "act in a certain way" which proves he does not know what to fear but the "act in a certain" way.
who is acting in witch way .you make no sence please try to write things people understand .
cheers

abe87
05-21-2008, 05:59 PM
my orginal post was
hezbollah and democracy are to words that will never and should never go together . hezbollah represents iran in lebanon and as we all no there is no such thing as decmocracy in iran
what we are trying to say is hezbollah is no way shape or form democratic . if they were they would have never attack west beirut and jabal lubnan becuase of a political choice by a democraticaly elceted goverment


My bad, my intentions was just to quote your name so my post was going to be towards you. My bad.

Well, everyone got their opinions :)

Anyways, I stated back some pages ago why some Pro-government militas shooting at civilians when there is proof presented, you didn't respond to them. Why?

abe87
05-21-2008, 06:00 PM
who is acting in witch way .you make no sence please try to write things people understand .
cheers

The man I quoted say he was afraid of Hezbollah of making lawmakers "acting in a certain way" without staying in what way.

It's just the same as "No! Hezbollah got veto! It's the end of Lebanon!" without stating how their veto would hurt Lebanon.

LEB101
05-21-2008, 06:01 PM
What am I saying? I'm saying, what does he fear for? He's just saying "act in a certain way" which proves he does not know what to fear but the "act in a certain" way.


My bad, my intentions was just to quote your name so my post was going to be towards you. My bad.

Well, everyone got their opinions :)

Anyways, I stated back some pages ago why some Pro-government militas shooting at civilians when there is proof presented, you didn't respond to them. Why?
i agree with you . after hezbollah started attacking civilians . pro-goverment groups did the same trying to start a civil war . i definatly agree with you about that point

abe87
05-21-2008, 06:13 PM
i agree with you . after hezbollah started attacking civilians . pro-goverment groups did the same trying to start a civil war . i definatly agree with you about that point

After Hezbollah started to attack civilans? When? During this demonstrations? There was several occasions pro-government attacking civilians with proofs.

Hezbollah never had civilians in their crosshair (even though there might be civilians casulties RIP), they targeted pro-government militas.

LEB101
05-21-2008, 06:16 PM
After Hezbollah started to attack civilans? When? During this demonstrations? There was several occasions pro-government attacking civilians with proofs.

Hezbollah never had civilians in their crosshair (even though there might be civilians casulties RIP), they targeted pro-government militas.
again i must stress the goverment did not have militias it was a bunch or kids with klashins that there dads or grandpas gave them for there 18th birthday or something ... i saw with my own eyes

abe87
05-21-2008, 06:37 PM
again i must stress the goverment did not have militias it was a bunch or kids with klashins that there dads or grandpas gave them for there 18th birthday or something ... i saw with my own eyes

There is much that points out to the fact someone wanted a counterweight against Hezbollah.

LEB101
05-21-2008, 06:40 PM
There is much that points out to the fact someone wanted a counterweight against Hezbollah.
yea most people in lebanon who want freedom and dont liek taking orders from iran and lebanons biggest threat syria

abe87
05-21-2008, 06:54 PM
yea most people in lebanon who want freedom and dont liek taking orders from iran and lebanons biggest threat syria

Nope. The Ruling bloc felt threatened and needed a counterweight. The oppositions have many supportes behind judging by their demonstrations.

They can organise demonstrators with over one million people. Prove me wrong :)

One?
05-21-2008, 07:05 PM
yea most people in lebanon who want freedom and dont liek taking orders from iran and lebanons biggest threat syria

really? So why did Hariri, Jumblat etc.. take orders from Syria for 20 Years? Or how about saudi arabia?

As for your comment about militias stop the lies and start providing facts. I posted an article explaining how security plus (1800 trained personell) was the FM's militia. They had RPGs, AK47s and thats basically all you need in a street fight. Prove to me that FM did not have a militia, and prove to me that the army did not capture any weapons, also prove to me that none of the salafists in the north joined the fighting, also while you're at it prove to me that the confessions of those that were brought from akkar to beirut were fake.

Once you do all that you can be a bit credible. But so far all your rants are based on 0 facts.

And here is your counter argument you can copy paste it "one go watch manartv persian thug hezbollah invader shia".



500: those in power today hate israel, and the only reason they aren't going on "lets kill israel" rants is because they are allied with the US. But you don't get to hear what some clerics are saying. "The road to liberate israel is through lebanon"....ya over my dead body.

LEB101
05-21-2008, 07:15 PM
really? So why did Hariri, Jumblat etc.. take orders from Syria for 20 Years? Or how about saudi arabia?

As for your comment about militias stop the lies and start providing facts. I posted an article explaining how security plus (1800 trained personell) was the FM's militia. They had RPGs, AK47s and thats basically all you need in a street fight. Prove to me that FM did not have a militia, and prove to me that the army did not capture any weapons, also prove to me that none of the salafists in the north joined the fighting, also while you're at it prove to me that the confessions of those that were brought from akkar to beirut were fake.

Once you do all that you can be a bit credible. But so far all your rants are based on 0 facts.

And here is your counter argument you can copy paste it "one go watch manartv persian thug hezbollah invader shia".



500: those in power today hate israel, and the only reason they aren't going on "lets kill israel" rants is because they are allied with the US. But you don't get to hear what some clerics are saying. "The road to liberate israel is through lebanon"....ya over my dead body.
you prove they did have militas my proof they dd not have militas was barley anyone fought hezbollah when there thugs took west beirut . i want to see a video of the army finding arms . and yes you should go watch al manar you cant get any dumber so it wont hurt you

abe87
05-21-2008, 07:38 PM
you prove they did have militas my proof they dd not have militas was barley anyone fought hezbollah when there thugs took west beirut . i want to see a video of the army finding arms . and yes you should go watch al manar you cant get any dumber so it wont hurt you


Fact One: FM offices in Beirut after being evacuated by the LA were found to contain loads of weapons and spirits.

Fact Two: HA and Amal fighters were faced by a lot of fearsome counter-fire from FM fighters. Where would have they found the need ammo to keep on fighting for 2 straight days if their weapons are the same found in every lebanese household?

Fact Three: FM closed roads and burned tired in Jiyyeh, Masna3, and various areas of Beqa3.

Fact Four: FM killed yesterday 11 SSNPers in 7alba. FMers kileld 2 of them after the SSNPers announced they would surrender to the LA. FMers even followed the wounded to the hospitals and killed one in the hospital.

Fact Five: PSPers killed 2 LDP supporters in 3aley 2 nights ago, and WJ admitted it.

Fact Six: PSPers hijacked 3 HAers and brutally executed 2 of them and disfigured them.

Fact Seven: PSPers hijacked 2 civilian buses then released them after a while.

Fact Eight: FMers assaulted, looted and burned FPM offices in Ta3labaya and a northern village (maybe 7alba I think).

Fact Nine: LFers among which the bodyguard of Sarkis were caught in Beirut in the areas where the fighting occurred (what were they doing there?)

Fact Ten: FM outlets (forums mainly) were calling for the split of the sunni soldiers from the LA, and pleading AL Qaeda to come to their aid.

Unconfirmed events: - 2 army soldiers were kidnapped in Beqa3 by FM

- LF snipers shooting towards shiite areas were being caught by the LA

This was found on another forum, this is much the least I can prove. There are photographic evidence which I will tomorrow search for.

LEB101
05-21-2008, 07:45 PM
[b][*******#ff0000]

This was found on another forum, this is much the least I can prove. There are photographic evidence which I will tomorrow search for.
they closed roads and people who had guns at home shot at hezbollah .thats not proof of a milita

Ordie
05-21-2008, 07:49 PM
If the national unity government were to happen in Lebanon, it will become an Persian-American Joint Venture client state.

One?
05-21-2008, 08:48 PM
they closed roads and people who had guns at home shot at hezbollah .thats not proof of a milita



http://www.latimes.com/images/standard/lat_logo_innerdotgif

The Future movement used a security firm to assemble a private force, officials say. But the fighters were no match for the Shiite group Hezbollah.
By Borzou Daragahi and Raed Rafei, Special to The Times
May 12, 2008
BEIRUT -- For a year, the main Lebanese political faction backed by the United States built a Sunni Muslim militia here under the guise of private security companies, Lebanese security experts and officials said.

The fighters, aligned with Saad Hariri's Future movement, were trained and armed to counter the heavily armed Shiite Muslim militant group Hezbollah and protect their turf in a potential military confrontation.

But in a single night late last week, the curious experiment in private-sector warfare crumbled.

Attacked by Hezbollah, the Future movement fighters quickly fled Beirut or gave up their weapons. Afterward, some of the fighters said they felt betrayed by their political patrons, who failed to give them the means to protect themselves while official security forces stood aside and let Hezbollah destroy them.

"We are prepared to fight for a few hours but not more," said one of the Sunni fighters in the waning moments of the battle. "Where do we get ammunition and weapons from? We are blocked. The roads are blocked. Even Saad Hariri has left us to face our fate alone."

The head of a conventional private security firm in Beirut, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue, said the Sunni force was "not really ready."

"You can't just spend millions of dollars to build an army in one year," he said. "They have to be motivated and believe in something. They have to be willing to die."

Lebanon's U.S.-backed government and the Iranian-backed opposition led by Hezbollah have been mired in a political stalemate for more than a year. The country has been without a president since November.

Amid the political crisis that has sharpened differences among various religious communities, Lebanon's army and Internal Security Forces had played a peacekeeping role, preventing clashes without confronting any of the different armed groups. They feared any robust intervention would break the unity of the armed forces and plunge the country into civil war.

But the crisis has created a power vacuum. Hariri's deputies have denied his movement was building a militia, though ranking military officials, independent analysts and employees of the security firm, called Secure Plus, say it was doing just that.

Private security firms are the latest arrivals to a hodgepodge of armed groups that include Islamic militants inspired by Al Qaeda, Palestinian militias based in the country's dozen refugee camps and Hezbollah.

With speed that surprised observers, Hezbolllah last week took over West Beirut and crushed the Future movement's fighters.

Hezbollah said its move was aimed at stopping the government, which had outlawed the militant group's private communication system, from hampering its ability to confront Israel. But it appears the Shiite militia's main targets were the Future fighters, some of them operating under the guise of Secure Plus.

For months, Lebanese security officials in the army and the Internal Security Forces warily watched the growth of the Future-Secure Plus fighting force. Officials close to and inside Hezbollah said they were monitoring the growth of the potential threat.

Over the last year, Secure Plus went from a small security company to an organization with 3,000 employees and unofficial associates on the payroll, mostly poor Sunnis from the country's north. Some were armed with pistols and assault rifles.

"We have . . . thousands of young people in plainclothes working with us all over the country," a company official said before the clashes started.

Even those who feared the development hoped the Future movement's growing military capacity would create a "balance of terror" with the more heavily armed Shiite fighters, government officials and members of the group say.

"On the one side, Hezbollah has trained military groups allied with it," said a high-ranking official with the Internal Security Forces, which has received $60 million in training and equipment from the U.S.

"On the other side, the Future movement has created security firms to protect itself."

Secure Plus declined multiple requests for interviews. It was the largest of dozens of security firms that have sprung up in recent years. Run by retired Lebanese army officers, it ostensibly provides security for banks, hotels and offices. Hariri's media office denied there were any official links between Secure Plus and the Future movement.
"Future bloc has members of parliament, not fighters," said Hani Hammoud, a spokesman for Hariri. It "believes in the rule of law, and that it is up to official security and military agencies to resolve any problem that might arise."

Secure Plus employees, in beige pants and maroon shirts, were drilled for months in basic military training, including hand-to-hand combat. At least two dozen informal offices were opened in Beirut.

For a monthly salary of at least $350, they served eight hours a day guarding offices, patrolling neighborhoods on motorcycles, communicating via walkie-talkie and remaining on call to defend against threats to Sunni neighborhoods or offices of the Future bloc, employees of the company said. Though the group was officially barred from carrying weapons, many had them anyway. One said he bought guns from Hezbollah.

In the last few months, fighting regularly broke out between Sunni supporters of the Future bloc working formally or informally with Secure Plus and Shiites allied with Hezbollah and Amal, another militia. The clashes often took place in West Beirut, a patchwork of Sunni and Shiite areas.

The government became so worried about street battles that in February it convened an emergency meeting of military officials and government and opposition leaders. All agreed to stand by the army and the security forces if they intervened, even if it meant some of their own fighters would sustain casualties. But Lebanon's weak government made little attempt to interdict the arming of such groups.

"We cannot ask the Christian Lebanese or Sunni Lebanese to give up their arms when others have arms," said Ahmed Fatfat, a leader of the Future bloc and a Cabinet minister.

When the clashes began last week, the Sunni fighters proved no match for Hezbollah's firepower, discipline and intelligence capabilities.

Secure Plus and Future movement offices and strongholds were pummeled. Hezbollah first targeted Future movement positions in mixed Sunni-Shiite neighborhoods, easily defeating them.

Meanwhile, the Shiite militiamen encircled but did not enter Sunni strongholds, terrorizing fighters into giving up without causing huge casualties on either side.

Hezbollah also shut down the Future movement's media outlets, cutting off its ability to rally public support.

The Sunni fighters may have been lulled into a false belief that Hezbollah would not enter into full-fledged confrontation. The security company executive said the Future fighters were caught off guard by the speed of the offensive.

"Maybe they thought they could hold Hezbollah off for a few days or a few weeks before help arrived," he said. "They faced an onslaught that they had never planned for."

After the Future movement fighters gave up, Hezbollah handed them over to the Lebanese army, freeing itself of caring for prisoners while preventing the captured fighters from reentering the battle for at least a few days.

At a hospital near the scene of some of the heaviest fighting, a Future movement fighter employed by Secure Plus wandered stunned in his pajamas with his two sons, who also served in the Sunni militia. His sons had suffered minor wounds after being beaten up by Hezbollah fighters.

Once he realized that Hezbollah's victory was inevitable, he and his sons tried to escape their rivals' clutches by staying home. But to no avail; Hezbollah knew where they lived.

"I didn't leave my home," he said. "They came for us."


source:http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-security12-2008may12,0,6458359.story?page=1

if you understand english you would understand he article. Unless you're gonna counter attack with the usual "go watch manartv"...

There are several articles like this one floating in AMERICAN newspapers. Go to the daily pictures section and look at the pics militiamen from the north, the "iraq war veterans" that you are so proud of.

Oh and could you please tell us what the PSP is and if they have a militia..thank you :)

LEB101
05-21-2008, 10:41 PM
if you understand english you would understand he article. Unless you're gonna counter attack with the usual "go watch manartv"...

There are several articles like this one floating in AMERICAN newspapers. Go to the daily pictures section and look at the pics militiamen from the north, the "iraq war veterans" that you are so proud of.

Oh and could you please tell us what the PSP is and if they have a militia..thank you :)

the PSP is a political party that has no weapons . some members of the party have ak47's witch 95 percent of poeple in lebanon have a. a milita like hezbollah has 120 mm mortars and katushas that is a milita that iran uses to terrorize innocent people in lebanon so they cant object to persian infulence in lebanon .. good job ONE you are supporting a thug milita that wants to replace lebanons identity with a khomeniest identity.. good job so far your doing a good job

500
05-22-2008, 02:38 AM
Apart from the tribunal, what's the problem of Hezbollah having veto? "Oh no, the terrorist group has veto! That's the end of democracy!".

Please enlighten me! :)
I thought I expressed myself very clearly. Problem is that Hez has veto on government, but government (and no one else in Lebanon) has not veto on Hezbollah. Do you think it's normal that Nasrallah can drag country into wars without asking anyone in Lebanon?

I can't think of a name
05-22-2008, 03:44 AM
When FM and PSP members go the the US and train with heavy weapons, ATGMs, AA, MLRS then you can call them a militia.

Guys banding together to defend their neighborhoods with AKs does not hold a candle to Hezzbollah who go to Iranian camps trained by Quds Force.

Snoshi
05-22-2008, 04:53 AM
One, there is no proof at all that FM had
1. An organised militia
2. that it was trained by someone

And btw, you got LA times and i got NYT

In late 2006, sectarian street battles began taking place in mixed Sunni-Shiite neighborhoods, mostly among young followers of Mr. Hariri’s Future Movement and the Amal Party, a Hezbollah ally. The fighting was prompted by hard feelings after Hezbollah’s withdrawal from the cabinet and its subsequent campaign to bring down Mr. Siniora, who refused to step down despite the resignation of all the cabinet’s Shiite ministers.

As the conflict grew worse, there were rumors that Mr. Hariri was training a Sunni militia to counter Hezbollah, and even cultivating links with jihadists.

But when the battle finally broke wide open just over a week ago, a different reality emerged.

Hezbollah and its allies, angered by government decisions that threatened the group’s communication network, sent their fighters into the streets, blocking crucial roads and skirmishing with Sunni militia fighters. Mr. Nasrallah had labeled the government’s actions a declaration of war, but it was a war only one side was prepared for.
Meanwhile, as the street fighting went on in west Beirut on May 8 Mr. Hariri’s Sunni militia had proved to be largely mythical: its fighters were quickly thrashed. Some were given orders not to fight, so as to avoid a massacre.

The next day, as Hezbollah fighters and their allies were taking control of west Beirut, one Sunni fighter ran up to a group of young men in the Sunni stronghold of Tarik Jadideh and told them it was over.

“Hurry up, run away, it is over, there is nothing left,” the gunman said, before running off himself. “They are coming after us, and this time with shoes, not weapons, to humiliate us even more.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/wo...agewanted=1&hp

abe87
05-22-2008, 04:54 AM
I thought I expressed myself very clearly. Problem is that Hez has veto on government, but government (and no one else in Lebanon) has not veto on Hezbollah. Do you think it's normal that Nasrallah can drag country into wars without asking anyone in Lebanon?

Hmm, that is interesting. Why doesn't the current government have veto on Hezbollah when the new pro-US guys have 16 seats meanwhile the opposition has 11 seats?

500
05-22-2008, 05:19 AM
Hmm, that is interesting. Why doesn't the current government have veto on Hezbollah when the new pro-US guys have 16 seats meanwhile the opposition has 11 seats?
Because hezbollah has a private militia that does not sumbit to the government. As result, if Lebanese army will decide to disarm some Palestinian gang for example, it will need Hezie aproval. However Hez can launch rocket attack at Israel anytime without asking anyone in Lebanon.

LEB101
05-22-2008, 12:04 PM
Hmm, that is interesting. Why doesn't the current government have veto on Hezbollah when the new pro-US guys have 16 seats meanwhile the opposition has 11 seats?
they do have veto but hezbollah dont listen to no one but iran so whats the point . its like telling your son to do something but he gives you the ba3bous (middle finger ) and does what ever he wants

LEB101
05-22-2008, 12:07 PM
Because hezbollah has a private militia that does not sumbit to the government. As result, if Lebanese army will decide to disarm some Palestinian gang for example, it will need Hezie aproval. However Hez can launch rocket attack at Israel anytime without asking anyone in Lebanon.
exactly . iran wanted this so they can solidifiy there power in lebanon . now they control a private thug milita . and now they can delcare war when they want . great job hezbollah you are doing a good job in destorying lebanons identity and replacing it with a khomenist one

Ichabod
05-22-2008, 12:54 PM
Because hezbollah has a private militia that does not sumbit to the government.

And i thought that HA doesn't have a militia but that it itself was one,but still not quite a militia but a RESISTANCE according to Lebanese law.

So which is it?

LEB101
05-22-2008, 12:58 PM
And i thought that HA doesn't have a militia but that it itself was one,but still not quite a militia but a RESISTANCE according to Lebanese law.

So which is it?
hezbollah has the political side and the armed side. hezbollah is a political party with a militia . syria made the govemrnet call them a resisitance in 1990 . the goverment called for all to disarm . so syria assasninated a few people and imposed its will

Ichabod
05-22-2008, 01:34 PM
hezbollah has the political side and the armed side. hezbollah is a political party with a militia . syria made the govemrnet call them a resisitance in 1990 . the goverment called for all to disarm . so syria assasninated a few people and imposed its will

But that militia is part of that resistance right? And they are still a resistance which allows them to be armed?

LEB101
05-22-2008, 01:36 PM
But that militia is part of that resistance right? And they are still a resistance which allows them to be armed?
no becasue there is nothing left to resistce

Ichabod
05-22-2008, 02:04 PM
no becasue there is nothing left to resistce

When did this come to pass? Can you provide me an article plz were the government declared that the resistance is null and void? Or is there a point somewhere that says when HA ceases being a resistance?

As i understand there is still a part of Lebanon that is under Israeli control.

LEB101
05-22-2008, 02:06 PM
When did this come to pass? Can you provide me an article plz were the government declared that the resistance is null and void? Or is there a point somewhere that says when HA ceases being a resistance?

As i understand there is still a part of Lebanon that is under Israeli control.
shebba farms are contorled by israel . but according to the UN it is not lebanese land becuase syria does not want to say it is lebanese . it is another game they aply so hezbollah can keeps its weapons

Ichabod
05-22-2008, 02:12 PM
shebba farms are contorled by israel . but according to the UN it is not lebanese land becuase syria does not want to say it is lebanese . it is another game they aply so hezbollah can keeps its weapons

So officially it IS a resistance according to Lebanese law?

LEB101
05-22-2008, 02:14 PM
So officially it IS a resistance according to Lebanese law?
yes but it has lost the support of 70 percent of lebanon . rmeember a resisitnace is as strong as its supporters right after israel withdrew 85percent of lebanon supported them . after they attacked civilans and drew there guns on fellow lebanese . only about 30percent of lebanon supports them

Ichabod
05-22-2008, 02:25 PM
yes but it has lost the support of 70 percent of lebanon . rmeember a resisitnace is as strong as its supporters right after israel withdrew 85percent of lebanon supported them . after they attacked civilans and drew there guns on fellow lebanese . only about 30percent of lebanon supports them

However,they can still be armed no matter the support they have since the government allows it.I think that is enough to stop calling them a militia since your law states otherwise,there are many things people don't support but happen anyway and are a part of our everyday.
Furthermore they now even have veto power in the government.

I understand the ways they did it might not have been democratic,but they did happen and they can't be altered,so we have to leave it at that and look where we can go from there.

Ichabod
05-22-2008, 03:03 PM
cut

Wow man,calm down i ain't even Lebanese! So far i thought we had a nice discussion here,and i was looking at this problem from an observers point of view and tried to clarify some issues. I am looking at it from the specter of Lebanese law which states that HA is this and this and have the right to do this and this.

I understand how you feel but things that have happened cannot be undone and we have to look to the future! Don't you agree?

HA did and does things that may be standing in the way of Lebanon's progress but you can't argue over things that already happened. The fact stays that they are a resistance and that they succeeded in their aim of getting a tighter grip on the government,they can stay armed and there is no argument that they had the right to stay armed while others were being disarmed in these recent engagements.

500
05-22-2008, 03:17 PM
And i thought that HA doesn't have a militia but that it itself was one,but still not quite a militia but a RESISTANCE according to Lebanese law.

So which is it?
What does it matter how its called? Fact is that one man Nasrallah can drag the whole Lebanon into a war without asking anyone.

Ichabod
05-22-2008, 03:35 PM
What does it matter how its called? Fact is that one man Nasrallah can drag the whole Lebanon into a war without asking anyone.

Yes i absolutely agree that is not right,don't get me wrong im not supporting Nasrallah here.

But it does matter since the government says that this ''resistance militia whatever you call it''
has the right to be armed,and now they even have veto power.Why? Because they were armed in the first place which allowed them to achieve this position they have now.Why were they armed? Because the government allowed it and even made it lawful.
And also to clear out that other groups (that fought recently) are not so legitimate as HA is.

LEB101
05-22-2008, 04:16 PM
Wow man,calm down i ain't even Lebanese! So far i thought we had a nice discussion here,and i was looking at this problem from an observers point of view and tried to clarify some issues. I am looking at it from the specter of Lebanese law which states that HA is this and this and have the right to do this and this.

I understand how you feel but things that have happened cannot be undone and we have to look to the future! Don't you agree?

HA did and does things that may be standing in the way of Lebanon's progress but you can't argue over things that already happened. The fact stays that they are a resistance and that they succeeded in their aim of getting a tighter grip on the government,they can stay armed and there is no argument that they had the right to stay armed while others were being disarmed in these recent engagements.
again i tell you the syrains made the goverment change the law so hezbollah would be considered a resistance . so they can do syria and irans dirty work

Ichabod
05-22-2008, 05:09 PM
again i tell you the syrains made the goverment change the law so hezbollah would be considered a resistance . so they can do syria and irans dirty work

Yes that is the reality,but the reality is also that it did happen and that law is still here. No one can reverse that! You know it, i know it, everyone here knows it and so do the big shots who make the calls.....however the thing is how does that handle in your law and your politics. It happened that way but it did happen and you have to regard HA the way your law regards it.

LEB101
05-22-2008, 05:12 PM
Yes that is the reality,but the reality is also that it did happen and that law is still here. No one can reverse that! You know it, i know it, everyone here knows it and so do the big shots who make the calls.....however the thing is how does that handle in your law and your politics. It happened that way but it did happen and you have to regard HA the way your law regards it.
not anymore .. the law will change soon you will see. terror never wins

Ichabod
05-22-2008, 05:19 PM
not anymore .. the law will change soon you will see. terror never wins

I hope my friend :)

I support the Lebanese people in their struggle for their freedom!

Orbiter
05-22-2008, 05:57 PM
I hope my friend :)

I support the Lebanese people in their struggle for their freedom!
which struggle you are talking about ?

Ichabod
05-22-2008, 06:04 PM
which struggle you are talking about ?

Struggle to end strong division and sectarianism,foreign influences aimed at undermining the right of the Lebanese people to have a strong independent country,struggle to end all of the hostilities between rival factions etc.

egyptian73
05-22-2008, 06:34 PM
not anymore .. the law will change soon you will see. terror never wins
i want to ask you . wasnt you happy when israel withdraw from the southern lebanon in 2000 ?

what made israel to do that ? (note that iam not discussing the 2006 or 2008 conflicts ). only answer my question about what happened in 2000 .


(yes guys iam back again from suspension ,any many of you here may hear opposite opinions from me to thier thinking but lets hope to keep it civilized ).

ZeroZen
05-22-2008, 06:40 PM
Lebanon should partways with Hesbollah. Make the south as independent Hesbolistan so Lebanon will not be affected with Middleast Conflict.

Ichabod
05-22-2008, 07:08 PM
Lebanon should partways with Hesbollah. Make the south as independent Hesbolistan so Lebanon will not be affected with Middleast Conflict.

How would that keep Lebanon out of ME conflict? Wouldn't that provoke Syrian intervention?

500
05-22-2008, 07:16 PM
i want to ask you . wasnt you happy when israel withdraw from the southern lebanon in 2000 ?

what made israel to do that ?
More proper question is what made Israel to stay in Lebanon till 2000.

frenchy
05-22-2008, 07:39 PM
More proper question is what made Israel to stay in Lebanon till 2000.

Create a buffer-zone to prevent rockets launching from palestinians there, if I remember. And surely other things because Syria was there.

LEB101
05-22-2008, 08:00 PM
Struggle to end strong division and sectarianism,foreign influences aimed at undermining the right of the Lebanese people to have a strong independent country,struggle to end all of the hostilities between rival factions etc.
all our struggles theses days come from iran and syria

LEB101
05-22-2008, 08:01 PM
Create a buffer-zone to prevent rockets launching from palestinians there, if I remember. And surely other things because Syria was there.
yes . people blame israel for the problems in lebanon . ok israel is not a saint . but groups like hezbollah and PLO provoke it

One?
05-22-2008, 08:09 PM
again i tell you the syrains made the goverment change the law so hezbollah would be considered a resistance . so they can do syria and irans dirty work

LIES

In 2005 syria wasn't in lebanon. In 2005 Hariri, Jumblat, Lebanese Forces, Kataeb were in government. All these came out with bayan wizari that hezbollah is a resistance.

You just proved to all the lebanese members that you aren't lebanese, because you know nothing about lebanese politics, or a liar. Either one :)

egyptian73
05-23-2008, 03:20 AM
More proper question is what made Israel to stay in Lebanon till 2000.
the most smarter question is what the israeli occupation in the southern lebanon from 70's till 2000 resulted in ?

you created hezbollah and amal imo not iran . ofcourse iran later supported it with money , wepons and syria logistically .

but you gave them the target and the cause to exist .(to resist a foreign occupation to thier land ).

history said that never a foreign occupation managed to defeat a resistence .

egyptian73
05-23-2008, 03:28 AM
LIES

In 2005 syria wasn't in lebanon. In 2005 Hariri, Jumblat, Lebanese Forces, Kataeb were in government. All these came out with bayan wizari that hezbollah is a resistance.

You just proved to all the lebanese members that you aren't lebanese, because you know nothing about lebanese politics, or a liar. Either one :)


i have seen his posts since he started to post in that forum and i noticed that even he wrote in arabic once (but many can do that not big problem ).

but he doesnt have the spirit of the lebanon and arab people . his only goal to criticize iran ,hezbo,syria .

and israel for him is the white angel that love lebanon and is scared of the civil war that may destroy the( good lebanon ).

damn, israel doesnt (1%)care about lebanon , they only care about the destruction of hezbollah by the hands of the lebaneses and let lebanon and all the arabs go to the hell .

he forgot to say that israel killed in bombing beirut in 82 alone , a number of civilians that will cover any number of causalties that will result from civil war in addition that if anybody should be blamed for creation of hezbollah , it must be israel .

israel only cares about security and let the whole world go to the hell if that will reult in security .

Snoshi
05-23-2008, 04:43 AM
the most smarter question is what the israeli occupation in the southern lebanon from 70's till 2000 resulted in ?

you created hezbollah and amal imo not iran . ofcourse iran later supported it with money , wepons and syria logistically .

but you gave them the target and the cause to exist .(to resist a foreign occupation to thier land ).

history said that never a foreign occupation managed to defeat a resistence .

You should read some history.. HA would have been created by Iran even without the Israeli invasion, Iranian Pasdaran troops were already inside Lebanese before the 1982, the invasion was just a great opportunity to recruite people? Or are you saying that HA was created by itself?

egyptian73
05-23-2008, 04:56 AM
You should read some history.. HA would have been created by Iran even without the Israeli invasion, Iranian Pasdaran troops were already inside Lebanese before the 1982, the invasion was just a great opportunity to recruite people? Or are you saying that HA was created by itself?
the idea is(from hezbo lebanese view) , a foreign force came to my country occupying big parts of it , to certain goal (to destroy arafat forces and protect galilie).

but i am a lebanese and watched israeli shelling of beirut and many civilians killed .

ok i will lift my weapon and try to convince those forces to leave in the same time i will search for support from the enemies of my enemy like iran and syria .

what is the shame in making allies to free my country ? i think winston churchill said before i will ally with the devil to win .
he said that because of hilter's mad ambition to invade the united kingdom . no shame imo .

Snoshi
05-23-2008, 05:10 AM
the idea is(from hezbo lebanese view) , a foreign force came to my country occupying big parts of it , to certain goal (to destroy arafat forces and protect galilie).

but i am a lebanese and watched israeli shelling of beirut and many civilians killed .

ok i will lift my weapon and try to convince those forces to leave in the same time i will search for support from the enemies of my enemy like iran and syria .

what is the shame in making allies to free my country ? i think winston churchill said before i will ally with the devil to win .
he said that because of hilter's mad ambition to invade the united kingdom . no shame imo .
Again, you make it sound that Shiite wanted to organise themselves and asked Iran for help. But thats not the case, Iran wanted before 1982 to extend its long arm into Lebanon in order to have some leverage against Israel, not because they cared about Lebanon.

egyptian73
05-23-2008, 05:36 AM
Again, you make it sound that Shiite wanted to organise themselves and asked Iran for help. But thats not the case, Iran wanted before 1982 to extend its long arm into Lebanon in order to have some leverage against Israel, not because they cared about Lebanon.
ok iran is devil , ok i have no problem with that . all i know (lebanese hezbo) that those people (without regard to thier goals to aid me ) .

help me to get rid of israeli occupation .

also i think the theory of iranian extent is something that has been blown in so much since 2006 .

i think not many people complained about the iranian influence in hezbollah before 2006 when hezbollah made the taboo and boombed israel itself effectively (for the first time in arab - israeli conflict ) .

(you must agree with me that 2006 was diffrent from the small bombs that were shelled out here and there on galilie in 60's by syrian in golan and 70's by plastainians ).

Snoshi
05-23-2008, 05:58 AM
ok iran is devil , ok i have no problem with that . all i know (lebanese hezbo) that those people (without regard to thier goals to aid me ) .

help me to get rid of israeli occupation .

also i think the theory of iranian extent is something that has been blown in so much since 2006 .

i think not many people complained about the iranian influence in hezbollah before 2006 when hezbollah made the taboo and boombed israel itself effectively (for the first time in arab - israeli conflict ) .

(you must agree with me that 2006 was diffrent from the small bombs that were shelled out here and there on galilie in 60's by syrian in golan and 70's by plastainians ).
The 2006 was was overblown by the media.. HA bombed Israeli civilian areas only to terrorize the civilian population, their artillery was useless against IDF troops, while in wars with Syria and Egypt both of these countries used most of their rockets to fire at the Israeli solders and military positions, while HA was interested in terrorising the civilian population.
And HA bombing dint really cause any significant death tolls.. Again the hole war in 2006 was over blow by the MSM(main stream media) who does not understand anything about military matters. To stop HA rocket fire IDF would had to occupy the launching grounds, you can stop it from the air because of their mobility. Also the war was very limited, only 10k troops were used during most of the war without orders of advancing, only few hours before the cease fire IDF made a push with 30k soldiers, but it it proved to be limited because cease-fire was imposed.

Iranian presence was not "overblown" since 2006.. Iranian troops were always located in Bekaa and Iran always supplies HA with weapons, 2006 war was the first "major" Israeli response since the withdrawal in 2000, many people forget or dont know that HA provoked Israel almost every mouth since the withdrawal , there were continues rocket attacks and continues kidnapping attempts. This is for example HA attacks during the Defensive Shield operation in West Bank.
HA also can whine of their "divine" victory, but the year 2007 and now 2008 are the most calm years on the Israeli-Lebanese border since Israeli withdrawal. And lack of HA response after the Mughaniye assassination proves that they will think twice before provoking Israel again.

March 30, 2002
Saturday

13:24
Mount Dov sector – mortar bombs were fired at IDF positions. No IDF casualties.

April 2, 2002


Tuesday

16:39
Mount Dov sector – mortar bombs fired at IDF positions. No IDF casualties.

April 3, 2002


Wednesday

18:39
Mount Dov sector – missiles fired at IDF positions. The fire continued at intervals until 21:18. One IDF soldier was lightly injured.

April 5, 2002


Friday

18:44
Western and eastern sectors – missile and mortar fire at IDF positions. No IDF casualties.

April 6, 2002


Saturday

18:00
Recoilless gun, mortars and antitank fire at IDF positions near the village of Ghajar. In addition, artillery fire at Mount Dov positions. Three Israeli civilians were injured. The entire attack was carried out by Hezbollah.

April 7, 2002


Sunday

17:02
Antitank missiles and rockets with phosphorus warheads were fired at IDF positions. Small arms fire at an IDF position from all directions. Antitank fire at Moshav [the village of] Avivim. Gunfire at the security guard post, Kibbutz Manara. In addition, four explosive charges were found near Ghajar. As a result of the attacks which continued until about 19:00, four IDF soldiers were lightly injured, two sustained medium injuries and one was seriously wounded.

April 8, 2002


Monday

16:00
Missiles and mortar bombs were fired at several IDF positions in Mount Dov. During the attack, anti-aircraft fire was directed at all sectors (western, central, eastern). One IDF soldier and a 65-year-old Israeli civilian were seriously wounded.

April 9, 2002


Tuesday

18:32
Artillery, antitank and small arms fire at Mount Dov positions and Mount Hermon slopes (including Majd al-Shams, the Hermon ski resort and Neveh Ativ). The attack lasted about an hour. No IDF casualties.

April 10, 2002


Tuesday

09:43
An attempt to attack IDF position (Hezbollah flags were placed on a rampart near the position, simultaneous with close-range fire) combined with artillery/antitank fire directed at the other Mount Dov positions and several positions in the northern Golan Heights. The attack lasted for 40 minutes. No IDF casualties.

April 11, 2002


Wednesday

18:11
Rocket and antitank fire at IDF positions.

April 12, 2002


Thursday

18:06
Antitank and mortar fire at IDF positions.

April 13, 2002


Friday

15:55
Antitank and mortar fire at IDF positions in Mount Dov.

April 26, 2002


Friday

16:00
Combined fire, including missiles and mortar bombs at IDF positions in Mount Dov.As a result, six IDF soldiers were injured, one sustained medium injuries and the rest were lightly wounded.

egyptian73
05-23-2008, 06:08 AM
i noticed that all those fire from hezbo (after 2000 ) were directed towards idf military positions in a message to the refusal of the israeli occupation to the farms .
(whatever its syrian or lebanese and even it is syrian so they are occuped and should be freed because they are not israeli).
thew main question is (and you and me witnessed the war which was not tooo far from know ) who started to bomb civilian areas in 2006 and who respondd to it ??

egyptian73
05-23-2008, 06:10 AM
LIES

In 2005 syria wasn't in lebanon. In 2005 Hariri, Jumblat, Lebanese Forces, Kataeb were in government. All these came out with bayan wizari that hezbollah is a resistance.

You just proved to all the lebanese members that you aren't lebanese, because you know nothing about lebanese politics, or a liar. Either one :)

also i laughed a while night of the way he is trying to write his english words aining to miss some letters .to show that he is new to the forums and not already an old member !!

Snoshi
05-23-2008, 06:17 AM
i noticed that all those fire from hezbo (after 2000 ) were directed towards idf military positions in a message to the refusal of the israeli occupation to the farms .
(whatever its syrian or lebanese and even it is syrian so they are occuped and should be freed because they are not israeli).
thew main question is (and you and me witnessed the war which was not tooo far from know ) who started to bomb civilian areas in 2006 and who respondd to it ??

In 2006 HA was the first to bomb the civilian areas with no IDF military precense during the attack on the the IDF border patrol.

At around 9:00 a.m. local time (06:00 UTC), on 12 July 2006, Hezbollah initiated a diversionary Katyusha rocket and mortar attack on Israeli military positions and border villages, including Zar'it and Shlomi.[4][5][6][7][8][9]
And during the the war IDF had all rights to bomb towns that had HA precense.

Again, Sheeba farms are not Lebanese and the prisoners that are in Israeli jails are there because they commited crimes.

egyptian73
05-23-2008, 07:36 AM
In 2006 HA was the first to bomb the civilian areas with no IDF military precense during the attack on the the IDF border patrol.

And during the the war IDF had all rights to bomb towns that had HA precense.

Again, Sheeba farms are not Lebanese and the prisoners that are in Israeli jails are there because they commited crimes. even if they are not lebanese , but they are not yours . and you should leave it . about the shelling issue iam still convinced that ha bombing of israeli civil areas was in response to the israeli air strikes against lebanese civilians .

Snoshi
05-23-2008, 07:48 AM
about the shelling issue iam still convinced that ha bombing of israeli civil areas was in response to the israeli air strikes against lebanese civilians .

Why because you cant belive that "resitance" are just a bunch of terrorists?

War started after the Zar'it-Shtula incident that happened on 12th of July

Hezbollah fighters based in southern Lebanon launch Katyusha rockets across the border with Israel, targeting the town of Shlomi and outposts in the Shebaa Farms area.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5179434.stm

Simultaneously with this ambush, Hezbollah also launched a diversionary attack: a barrage of mortar shells and Katyusha rockets on communities and IDF outposts in the western part of the border area. That assault wounded five civilians, though none seriously: Some were lightly wounded, and the others suffered from shock.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=737825

Well, there have been periodic flare-ups along the Israeli/Lebanese border. And Hezbollah has threatened to capture soldiers. What happened this morning is, Hezbollah guerrillas launched Katyusha rockets and mortars at both army outposts and little towns in Northern Israel. At least eight people were reported wounded, and these two soldiers were kidnapped.
http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/transcripts/2006/jul/060712.gradstein.html

The fighting on the Lebanese border erupted around 9 a.m., when Hezbollah attacked several Israeli towns with rocket fire, wounding several civilians, the Israeli military said. Israeli civilians rushed into their bomb shelters and many remained there through the day.

But that attack was a diversion for the main operation, several miles to the east, where Hezbollah militants fired antitank missiles at two armored Humvees patrolling the Israeli side of the border fence, the military said. Of the seven soldiers in the two jeeps, three were killed, two were wounded and two were abducted, the military said.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/07/13/africa/web.0712mideast.php

And Shlomi is not a military base

‎) is a town in the Northern District of Israel. As of 2003, Shlomi had 5,100 inhabitants.

It was founded as a development town in 1950 by immigrants from Morocco.

Shlomi is supported in the main by the UJIA (United Jewish Israel Appeal), and by youth groups in Britain such as the Association of Jewish Sixthformers.

It has been the target of Hezbollah attacks, where they launched Katyusha rocket attacks on 11 May 2005, Israel's Independence Day, and repeated the attack on Israel's Independence Day in 2006.

It was again the target of rocket attacks on 12 July 2006, a diversion to facilitate the killing of three soldiers and kidnapping two others, which sparked the 2006 Lebanon War.

egyptian73
05-23-2008, 08:23 AM
lol for five lightly wounded israelis , you destroyed the infrastructure of the whole country !! killing more than 1000 lebanese !! and you know that not all the lebanese people are hezbo supportres .
i forgot to tell you something , you seemed to be dancing from happiness when the fighting started in lebanon 2 weeks ago , but i couldnt respond to you because i was suspended .

Snoshi
05-23-2008, 08:36 AM
lol for five lightly wounded israelis , you destroyed the infrastructure of the whole country !! killing more than 1000 lebanese !! and you know that not all the lebanese people are hezbo supportres .
i forgot to tell you something , you seemed to be dancing from happiness when the fighting started in lebanon 2 weeks ago , but i couldnt respond to you because i was suspended .

It does not matter how many were wounded.. Thats the best they could do.. through the hole war "only" 40 Israeli civilians were killed. And that wasn't because HA dint fire at the civilian areas, it was because Israeli civilians were in the shelters and many moved south.. Through the hole war HA continued to fire their rockets at civilian centers that had no military presence. HA waged a total war on Israel. For example why do you think HA never fired their missiles at the night?

You were lucky that only 1000 died. Can you imagine how many would have died if Israel would start using dumb bombs?
And again Israel dropped leaflets all over s.Lebanon asking people to leave. If there is a HA office, HA troops or HA storage in their town then Israel has all right to bomb the hell out of it. Btw bombing infrastructure is not illegal..


I am have mixed opinions on recent fighting in Lebanon, for onces i happy that HA showed its true face to other Lebanese, they used their rockets and weapons on their own people while they claimed that they would never do that. I am also happy that HA got their asses handed to them in the Mouth Lebanon area by the PSP. But i feel sorry for the Sunnis and Druze who died fighting the Iranian proxy i am also unhappy that the government gave HA veto powers.

egyptian73
05-23-2008, 08:53 AM
It does not matter how many were wounded.. Thats the best they could do.. through the hole war "only" 40 Israeli civilians were killed. And that wasn't because HA dint fire at the civilian areas, it was because Israeli civilians were in the shelters and many moved south.. Through the hole war HA continued to fire their rockets at civilian centers that had no military presence. HA waged a total war on Israel. For example why do you think HA never fired their missiles at the night?

You were lucky that only 1000 died. Can you imagine how many would have died if Israel would start using dumb bombs?
And again Israel dropped leaflets all over s.Lebanon asking people to leave. If there is a HA office, HA troops or HA storage in their town then Israel has all right to bomb the hell out of it. Btw bombing infrastructure is not illegal..


I am have mixed opinions on recent fighting in Lebanon, for onces i happy that HA showed its true face to other Lebanese, they used their rockets and weapons on their own people while they claimed that they would never do that. I am also happy that HA got their asses handed to them in the Mouth Lebanon area by the PSP. But i feel sorry for the Sunnis and Druze who died fighting the Iranian proxy i am also unhappy that the government gave HA veto powers.
i have some comments on your post
first : you are happy flexing the muscles of the IDF . WHEN YOU SAY that only 1000 died . you seem you wanted to see more to die to be satisfied .

and that is very dangerous way of thinking . that means that wars will erupt again in the me because of mentalities like you .

second : in the same post you try to pretend of being sorry for the sunnis and druze in lebanon .
snoshi are you trying to fool me .

an israeli is sorry for the death of any arab or muslim ? in the same time he hates the shiites , but love the sunnis and druze ???