Serbian Radical Party: The Facts

[INAT]

By Tomislav Nikolic, acting leader of the Serbian Radical Party and one of the most experienced Serbian parliamentarians, Washington Times
Sunday, Serbian voters will go to the polls to elect a new parliament. It is expected the Serbian Radical Party, which for some years has been Serbia's most popular and has held the greatest number of parliamentary seats, will form a new government, either alone or in coalition with other parties.
In such case, I am confident we finally will have a government that, unlike in the recent past, will have a unified position on the key challenges facing our country.
Rule of Law, European Integrations and Economic Liberalization while Preserving Serbian National and State Interests

Outside Serbia, this election often is portrayed as a choice between "pro-Western" parties determined to take Serbia "forward" toward "Europe" versus parties, led by the Radicals, looking "backward" toward "nationalism" and an exclusive pro-Moscow orientation.
This is not an accurate understanding of this election's importance. Rather, voters will choose either the direction advocated by the Radicals, in which rule of law, European integration and economic liberalization go hand-in-hand with Serbia's legitimate national interests, or they will choose an illusion of faster integration promised by other parties that would undermine Serbia's territorial integrity.
The latter choice would allow those same parties to continue business as usual, which has made their political leaders wealthy while most of our citizens struggle to pay for basic living necessities.
Tadic Offering Dangerous Illusions and Suicidal Jumps

Such parties, led by the Democratic Party of President Boris Tadic, rely on scare tactics and false promises to stay in power and hope Serbian voters won't be able to see the falsity of such tactics and promises.
In fact, the Serbian Radical Party is not at all opposed to Serbia's accession to the European Union. However, the EU's relationship with Serbia must be based on mutual respect and observance of binding international commitments, including all provisions of the United Nations Charter and the Helsinki Final Act.
Ultra-Nationalist? Based on What?

It should be kept in mind that Serbia is one of the most ethnically and religiously diverse country in Europe. Far from the "ultra-nationalist" label some seek to apply to our party, the Radicals have embraced Serbia's multi-ethnic composition. As we have demonstrated in our party and our participation in local government, significant minority representation will also characterize a Radical-led national government.
The Radicals' economic policy is based on the free market and Serbia's potential as the key economy of the Danubian and west Balkan region. Eight years after the end of the rule of Slobodan Milosevic, there has yet to be a push for the restoration of communist-expropriated property. Our party will insist on redress and other overdue free-market reforms that will create more favorable conditions for foreign direct investment.
At the same time, we will vigorously pursue our mutual interests with Russia, as symbolized by Serbia's participation in the South Stream pipeline project that will help assure Western Europe's energy supplies.
Both East and West is the Only Way Forward

Far from representing Serbia's supposed rejection of the West in favor of Russia, we will maintain a healthy diversification of our commercial relations, including those with Russia — as have Germany, Hungary, Bulgaria, Greece, and other EU and NATO members.
In building relations with all partners, East and West, the Radicals insist that Kosovo not be regarded as an exception to accepted norms of international behavior. Despite their professed intentions, the actions of some Western countries on Kosovo have not produced greater stability or ethnic peace and tolerance — in fact, the exact opposite.
Kosovo-Metohija Not for Sale

The Radicals reject any recognition of Kosovo's illegal claim of separation from Serbia and the dispatch of an EU mission to Kosovo precisely because these actions violate the very standards the United States and Europe claim to uphold, values the Radical Party and virtually all Serbs share.
Instead of further aggravating the situation in Kosovo and creating conditions for violence on the ground — to which Serbia would be forced to respond to protect our citizens and our spiritual and cultural heritage, as any other country would — the Radicals invite the West to return to the path of negotiation, compromise and the rule of law. This is not some kind of retrograde "nationalism." It is simple common sense and common decency.
This is the basis on which a new Radical Party-led government will extend the hand of friendship to the United States and Europe. We will expect nothing less in return.

I posted this because everyone hears evil nationalist this and evil nationalist that but few know more than what western news sources tell them.The whole a vote for scumbag Tadic=forward,better life and EU vote for Nikolic=backward,forced isolation,misery is a huge pile of bs.

[127th Knights]

Very informative. Good job finding the piece.

[INAT]

Hvala puno =thanks alot.Yeah I thought it would be good to at least try to counter the massive anti-Serb anti-Nikolic slant in western reporting.

[Knez Eru]

I think that these articles:

http://www.blic.co.yu/hronika.php?id=40730
http://www.blic.co.yu/temadana.php?id=40877
http://www.blic.co.yu/temadana.php?id=41042

speak for themselves.

Edit:

Briefly in English: General Delić, the SRS candidate for Minister of Defense, was recently revealed to have given classified documents to the Hague Tribunal, as well as have been on their payroll.

[INAT]

I think that these articles:

http://www.blic.co.yu/hronika.php?id=40730
http://www.blic.co.yu/temadana.php?id=40877
http://www.blic.co.yu/temadana.php?id=41042

speak for themselves.

Edit:

Briefly in English: General Delić, the SRS candidate for Minister of Defense, was recently revealed to have given classified documents to the Hague Tribunal, as well as have been on their payroll.


Well damn is there a politician in Srbija that is not corrupt or is this a smear tactic.If you want to talk about someone working against the interests of the country look no further than Tadic and his crew.

From a article Dr Srdja Trifkovic wrote:
" The armed forces have never recovered from their tenure. The country unilaterally destroyed its stockpiles of anti-aircraft missiles under the benevolent gaze of then-US Ambassador in Belgrade William Montgomery. All senior officers on active duty during NATO attack in 1999 were forced to retire, including capable field commanders in their prime. The budget was so drastically reduced that many conscripts went literally hungry in the barracks, the air force was no longer able to train pilots because of the chronic lack of fuel . . . The head of the military security service, General Aca Tomic, was en pensioned off by Tadic, for daring to arrest (in March 2002) former Chief of General Staff General Momcilo Perisic, who was videotaped giving classified documents to an American diplomat, David Neighbor, in return for a cash payment.

No surprise if Srbija does not existin 5-10 years.

[Fallen_Hero]

If you vote for Pedro all your wildest dreams will come true :bash:

[KninGrad]

Its funny but what majority of people dont realize is that "real" Serbian Democratic party lead by Djindjic would be more similar to DSS (Kostunica) than DS (Tadic).......

[Pleonasm]

Its funny but what majority of people dont realize is that "real" Serbian Democratic party lead by Djindjic would be more similar to DSS (Kostunica) than DS (Tadic).......

That's a truth many people in Serbia don't know, especially followers of the LPD which main promise is to continue something they call "the path of Zoran Djindjic", i.e. giving up any legitimate national interests and base himself on phantomous Western promises. I guess Djindjic is rotating in his own grave by now since he never advocated anything like that, quite the contrary.

One must ask himself only one question: If Cedomir Jovanovic and/or Boris Tadic are supposed to be his political successors, why was one used as a connection to mafia circles and the other nothing more than a nobody whose only merit was to have an influential father? Djindjic's mistake was to surround himself with incompetent idiots and as long as he lived the system worked well, he was the only one making decisions and others nothing more than puppets after all. But after his death the system's utter weakness hit Serbia, enriching its political scene with people like incumbent president Tadic, who's not even ashamed of using the Second World War for its dirty electoral campaign, Sutanovac, who is proud that his army is not able to defend the country, Milosavljevic, who is writing (bad) poetry instead of doing his job as a minister, and of course LPD party leader Cedomir Jovanovic, Serbia's Kasparov, only that he is more idiot and less chess genius.

[Thubbard]

Well,Tadic won with 39%,Radicals 28%.

[marat]

and that is the fact.

[Pleonasm]

CeSID: DS coalition has solid lead 11 May 2008 | 09:21 -> 22:13 | Source: B92, Beta, Tanjug BELGRADE -- The first results show that the coalition gathered around the Democrats (DS) has won 39 percent, or 103 seats in the new parliament.

http://www.b92.net/news/pics/2008/05/1895493195482758ff32ac6948603618_MidCol.jpg
The Serb Radical Party (SRS) follows with 28.6 percent and 76 seats, while the Democratic Party of Serbia (DSS) has won 11.6 percent, or 30 seats.

Eight percent of voters have cast their ballots for the Socialists (SPS), who stand to win 21 seat, while the Liberal Democrats (LDP) are just over the 5.2 percent threshold, or 13 seats.

The Center for Free Elections and Democracy (CeSID) says it has based this result on 60 percent of samples from the polling stations.

126 votes are need in the 250-seat parliament in order to form a government in Serbia.

The turnout is at 60.7 percent, meaning that some 4,100,000 citizens have voted.

The Electoral Commission (RIK) is yet to announce its preliminary results.

Throughout Serbia, 8,682 polling stations that opened at 07:00 CET are now closed.

6,749,688 citizens were eligible to cast their vote at today’s parliamentary, local and provincial elections.

Citizens have elected 250 MPs from 22 tickets to the new parliament, 120 deputies to the Vojvodina Assembly, as well as councilors to 24 city halls and 150 municipal assemblies.

The elections were also held in 38 countries around the world at 77 polling stations altogether, where 51, 211 Serbian citizens were entitled to vote. Tadic, obviously drunk, is already celebrating in Belgrade. I guess he'll have a serious hangover tomorrow. Well, happy coalition talks, folks.

PS: 'Manjine' is Serbian for minorities.

PPS: Nikolic is openly inviting Kostunica's DSS, Dacic's SPS and minority parties to join him. Kostunica renounced a coalition with the coalition gathered around DS and called his principles more important than to be a part of the government. Dacic didn't say anything clear, he's aware of his king maker potential and tries to get the most, albeit it seems his premises will be more likely fulfilled by SRS and DSS than by DS. LPD and the minorities didn't say anything.

[Afro-European]

Nikolic's party lost with a big margin while all polls gave his party a slight lead.Damnnn,this guy should give it up.But wait,he can still become a prime minister if he succeeds to form a coalition with Kostunica's and Milosevic's parties.

[KninGrad]

wow I honestly did not expect that but on second thought it was possible because DS got into coalition with Canak (2-3%), SPO (3%), G17+ (6%) ....

Now it is all up to SPS .... which is kind of ironic ..... Milosevic's party is once again one of the "major" players :)

Funny thought how Tadic keeps telling people how Serbia will not go back to '90(Milosevic era) and at the same time wants to form coalition with SPS, too :)

[Pleonasm]

Funny thought how Tadic keeps telling people how Serbia will not go back to '90(Milosevic era) and at the same time wants to form coalition with SPS, too :)It's also remarkable that he's openly threatening anybody who wants to form a government without DS. He said, he'll not allow that. Ah, a very democratic statement from our beloved (and at the moment drunk) leader.

[Afro-European]

wow I honestly did not expect that but on second thought it was possible because DS got into coalition with Canak (2-3%), SPO (3%), G17+ (6%) ....

Now it is all up to SPS .... which is kind of ironic ..... Milosevic's party is once again one of the "major" players :)

Funny thought how Tadic keeps telling people how Serbia will not go back to '90(Milosevic era) and at the same time wants to form coalition with SPS, too :)
Isn't the SPS "ideologically" close with SRS than with DS?

[Pleonasm]

Isn't the SPS "ideologically" close with SRS than with DS?That doesn't matter, Dacic is a bit insulted because of SRS's rude campaign against him and his only premises are (according to him at least) social justice, free health care and education and territorial integrity. Of course, with such an attitude he's quite a natural partner for the SRS, but again, if DS is ready to give him more (i.e. more minister seats, more control seats in publicly owned companies etc. - politicians are bastards) than SRS/DSS-NS and if he concludes that a DS-SPS government will enable him to boost his electoral percentage at the next elections (an assumption which is questionable at least), he'll join Tadic.

To be more precise, it's possible that not even Dacic is the real king maker. Dragan 'Palma' Markovic, essentially a local politician from central Serbia, is part of Dacic's coalition and is considered more open to join the DS than Dacic and his socialists. His three seats, combined with the seats of LPD and the minorities would be enough for Tadic to form a government. The following days will be exciting and I think that nobody can be sure how this will end.

[INAT]

I understand that the non-Serb residents of Srbija voted for Tadic the Magyars in Vojvodina the Ruthinians, Hrvati,Albanains not in Kosovo-Metohija,Roma,Gorani,Bosanci etc and in the past them had and effect
but I really thought Serbians would be smart enough to not be fooled by Tadic again who is asking people to vote on the pact with Satan(SAA)
without disclosing the contects of it.Now whatever happens in internal matters Srbija deserves it.

[BW2]

If I haven't yet been more disappointed in my people then I don't look forward to in the near future.

It seems 39% of Serbs managed to swallow the bullsh*t they have been served with a smile by master chef Tadic. How on earth can people be so stupid and blind? Is it by accident or willful I ask myself?

Not all hope is lost but the results are heartbreaking to say the least. SRS DSS and SPS can form a coalition and form a government which I hope is the case. But that fact that Tadic's loony cronies gathering won 39% is a f**king farce!

I know that SRS and SPS openly stated they want to hold talks with DSS first and foremost so there is no chance of either DSS or SPS going to cronie town (DS ville).

Europe is laughing at Serbia today and I don't blame them....

[Pleonasm]

Europe is laughing at Serbia today and I don't blame them....Rupel is "very happy". Now, that's usually a bad sign. :)

[BW2]

Rupel is "very happy". Now, that's usually a bad sign. :) I don't know if I should laugh or cry its just too much... :|

In any case I see this as another chance, if by some chance Tadic forms a government with the lepers of Serbia (Ceda,Canak etc) then let them govern for their mandate and see how "well" they do, if they fail by those 5 years to achieve anything significant then they are gone....hopefully.

Since Kostunica wouldn't be PM in that case, they can no longer blame anyone for their mistakes and failures of not entering the EU.

[Pleonasm]

I don't know if I should laugh or cry its just too much... :|I'm perfectly cool. People deserve the government they get and history will tell if it was also a good one.

But I'm a bit disappointed that Tadic's campaign basend on fear worked that well. "If you elect us, there won't be war again." Come on...

[Afro-European]

I don't know if I should laugh or cry its just too much... :|
Yo Bluewings,doesn't the problem lies rather with Nikolic than with the voters? Remember in 2004 when he narrowly lost to Tadic while he managed to pull ahead in the first round.The same sh!t happens in februari of this year.
All polls gave his party a slight lead yet he lost big.Maybe his message wasn't that convincing or just badly conveyev to people?

[BW2]

I'm perfectly cool. People deserve the government they get and history will tell if it was also a good one.

But I'm a bit disappointed that Tadic's campaign basend on fear worked that well. "If you elect us, there won't be war again." Come on... I agree all the way, what can we say they had tons of advisor's and cash from the EU to support their end. Serbs aren't the brightest when it comes to campaigning, don't think we should credit Tadic with such a tactic.

[BW2]

Yo Bluewings,doesn't the problem lies rather with Nikolic than with the voters? Remember in 2004 when he narrowly lost to Tadic while he managed to pull ahead in the first round.The same sh!t happens in februari of this year.
All polls gave his party a slight lead yet he lost big.Maybe his message wasn't that convincing or just badly conveyev to people? Meh I don't really care about Nikolic, I am more disappointed with Kostunica who holds the best ideas for the country but is terrible in convincing people. His mistake was he used long and difficult speeches to convince the "simple" people to support him where as Tadic simply as to mutter "EU - rich - developed" and the crowd goes wild.

[INAT]

Meh I don't really care about Nikolic, I am more disappointed with Kostunica who holds the best ideas for the country but is terrible in convincing people. His mistake was he used long and difficult speeches to convince the "simple" people to support him where as Tadic simply as to mutter "EU - rich - developed" and the crowd goes wild.


Well maybe someone in Srbija can answer this but I had read Tadic had much more media coverage and a larger western backed campaign budget.

[BW2]

Well maybe someone in Srbija can answer this but I had read Tadic had much more media coverage and a larger western backed campaign budget. Don't doubt it, money from EU officials and advisers for sure plus wide media coverage (Blic,B92 etc.) Tadic has the resources he needs to win the people.

[Josip Broz]

The people voted and thats that. Don't go huffing and puffing how it was not a fair campaign and Tadic had this and that.

I am not saying for a moment that Tadic has the answers and him and the EU will save Serbs and Serbia. What I am saying is the people voted!!! Perhaps they don't quite know what they voted for, but I think they know what they voted "AGAINST". They voted against isolation, sanctions, poverty, unemployment, more bloodshed on their soil. And quite frankly, I dont blame them.

[V.I.D.]

Meh I don't really care about Nikolic, I am more disappointed with Kostunica who holds the best ideas for the country but is terrible in convincing people. His mistake was he used long and difficult speeches to convince the "simple" people to support him where as Tadic simply as to mutter "EU - rich - developed" and the crowd goes wild.
_________________________________________________________________

Don't really care much about politics, but I have to say that I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. But, as someone said, people had chosen, let them deal with it. They will have to live with the consequences of their own voting (may they be as harmless as possible).

[BW2]

The people voted and thats that. Don't go huffing and puffing how it was not a fair campaign and Tadic had this and that. No of course not, I am not saying it was unfair although the EU broke every code which keeps it out of our internal affairs, I can only blame my party (DSS) for not doing enough to win support at home and getting Russian support (hell if the EU can why not Russia?) And I agree the people (to an extent) voted for Tadic so lets see where he gets them.


but I think they know what they voted "AGAINST". They voted against isolation, sanctions, poverty, unemployment, more bloodshed on their soil. And quite frankly, I dont blame them. Which party promised these? Sanctions if the "right" party didn't win? Man that ain't the democracy I want to be part of...

[delio]

When does the next Presidential election take place? Maybe the Radicals can make a better showing then.

On a different note, naming your party the Radical party doesn't seem to sound well for PR purposes (it seems to have an extremism, way outside the main stream connotation). They should consider calling themselves the Reformist or something along those lines, lol.

[Rictor]

Hold on a second. This isn't an automatic win Tadic.

SRS, SPS and DS might still form a coalition, as indeed their stated intention is. No doubt there will be lots of talk about "respecting the will of the people" from the usual places.

Not that an SRS government would change anything. Fighting the EU, even if I agree with some of the principles behind the decision, is like trying to hold back a tsunami with a wet napkin.

[INAT]

Hold on a second. This isn't an automatic win Tadic.

SRS, SPS and DS might still form a coalition, as indeed their stated intention is. No doubt there will be lots of talk about "respecting the will of the people" from the usual places.

Not that an SRS government would change anything. Fighting the EU, even if I agree with some of the principles behind the decision, is like trying to hold back a tsunami with a wet napkin.



Well then I hope they have alot of bounty on hand. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41R-FZmInUL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

[sepheronx]

When does the next Presidential election take place? Maybe the Radicals can make a better showing then.

On a different note, naming your party the Radical party doesn't seem to sound well for PR purposes (it seems to have an extremism, way outside the main stream connotation). They should consider calling themselves the Reformist or something along those lines, lol.

lol. Actually, if there was a radical party of Canada, I would vote for them. Since the Conservative party of Canada screwed us over, lied to us continuously, and in the end, is turning Canada into another USA.

At least the Radical party would be "Pro Canada", and resort to pulling out of NAFTA, since it would hurt US more then us. Actually, that would mean more money for us.


Well then I hope they have alot of bounty on hand. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41R-FZmInUL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

That stuff works well, believe it or not.

[Pleonasm]

The people voted and thats that. Don't go huffing and puffing how it was not a fair campaign and Tadic had this and that.Yes, that's a privilege reserved for Tadic who called the "Politika" indirectly a neo-nazi paper yesterday, isn't it? Face it, the proeuropean forces had a stronger media coverage. Who was on the side of the others? Kurir? Nah, they hate Dinkic, and that's it. Politika? Come on, the paper seemed to favor Kostunica, but nowhere near the extent Jovanovic or Tadic are favoured by B92 and Blic.

I am not saying for a moment that Tadic has the answers and him and the EU will save Serbs and Serbia. What I am saying is the people voted!!! Perhaps they don't quite know what they voted for, but I think they know what they voted "AGAINST". That's a typical Serbian speciality. In Serbia people don't vote for something, but always against.


They voted against isolation, sanctions, poverty, unemployment, more bloodshed on their soil. And quite frankly, I dont blame them.That was the masterpiece of Tadic's campaign, to persuade the people that there will be sanctions and war if they don't win. They voted against unemployment and poverty? Really, so they voted for so-called expert Dinkic who to build up a negative balance of trade of unbelievable 50%! What's that?!

You know what, in summer I'm going to Serbia and if I only hear somebody complaining about the situation - and I will - I'll only ask one question: Who do you voted for? If the answer is Tadic, I'll just say shut the **** up.

[Alexandr]

So,parlament devidied by equal half of adversarial sides.
Wouldnt it collapsed in making desisions due to resistanse from both sides?
I surely hope - now,but im not so good at Serbian politics,would like to hear point from people more familiar with subject.

[Josip Broz]

Yes, that's a privilege reserved for Tadic who called the "Politika" indirectly a neo-nazi paper yesterday, isn't it? Face it, the proeuropean forces had a stronger media coverage. Who was on the side of the others? Kurir? Nah, they hate Dinkic, and that's it. Politika? Come on, the paper seemed to favor Kostunica, but nowhere near the extent Jovanovic or Tadic are favoured by B92 and Blic.
That's a typical Serbian speciality. In Serbia people don't vote for something, but always against.
That was the masterpiece of Tadic's campaign, to persuade the people that there will be sanctions and war if they don't win. They voted against unemployment and poverty? Really, so they voted for so-called expert Dinkic who to build up a negative balance of trade of unbelievable 50%! What's that?!

You know what, in summer I'm going to Serbia and if I only hear somebody complaining about the situation - and I will - I'll only ask one question: Who do you voted for? If the answer is Tadic, I'll just say shut the **** up.


I am in Canada. I get to take my family out to the the Keg and drink Rickards Red pitchers every weekend. I get to take my family to Cineplex and blow fortunes on popcorn and laugh at Disney movies. I get drunk watching football on Sundays. I don't actually live in Serbia and suffer like the rest of those people. I don't scramble for food and keep track of mu much gas and water i use. I just watch what's on TV and have strong political opinions about a place thats very far away and I am completely detached from. Are you in a similar boat by any chance? I see you are in Switzerland.

My point is, my posts are based on what I was hearing from family and friends that still live there. I remember in the earlier election, all of them scared ****less about what will happen if the Radicals win and they were inquiring as crazy about how to move and migrate. Then when Tadic won, they all calmed down and said, "perhaps we will stay here a little longer".

My point, Tadic is giving people hope about a better future. As opposed to the Radicals who are trying to convince the people that the whole world is against them and they are trying to anger the people into fighting the whole world and injustice.

The people are sick and tired of fighting and I don't blame them. Thats my point. Give the people a break and a chance for something better. And I am a little impressed by their vote. They saw through the bull**** anti-EU and anti-Kosovo propaganda and didn't let it get to their heads and cloud their judjment and reason. Kosovo is a lost cause. <edited for Pompeus> It's been lost for decades. :)

[V.I.D.]

My point, Tadic is giving people hope about a better future. As opposed to the Radicals who are trying to convince the people that the whole world is against them and they are trying to anger the people into fighting the whole world and injustice.

The people are sick and tired of fighting and I don't blame them. Thats my point. Give the people a break and a chance for something better. And I am a little impressed by their vote. They saw through the bull**** anti-EU and anti-Kosovo propaganda and didn't let it get to their heads and cloud their judjment and reason. Kosovo is a lost cause. It's been lost for decades. Baby sitting the mountain goat cheese eaters is not our problem anymore -- it's the US's. Be happy about it.:-)
________________________________________________________________

How exactly is Kosovo lost cause? Is Republic of Srpska a lost cause as well? Look, I understand it's hard for you because there's no more Yugoslavia, but you should not be preaching to the people still living here. A little bit of dignity and self-respect can't hurt. I hope you enjoyed your beer this past weekend.

[Paya]

So,parlament devidied by equal half of adversarial sides.
Wouldnt it collapsed in making desisions due to resistanse from both sides?
I surely hope - now,but im not so good at Serbian politics,would like to hear point from people more familiar with subject.
I'll put it this way: Parliament sessions are going to look disturbingly similar to UFC.

As for the results, I'm surprised at the people who are surprised. Of course the use of scare tactics by Tadic's DS is going to work when the Radicals simply refuse to reform. Serbia desperately needs a modern right-wing party, something that the Radicals under the leadership of Maja Gojkovic could have become, but noooo, the fat prick at the Hague has to have the last word.

As for Kostunica, his ideas are the closest thing to a genuine political vision that we have in this country. It's just sad that he is obviously not capable of implementing those ideas. For them, it is also the time for leadership change. That Aleksandar Popovic guy seems able enough.

As for the DS, yes they're slimy, but also effective. The other parties could learn a thing or two for them. One of them being "Modernisation is the key to success."

[Pleonasm]

My point, Tadic is giving people hope about a better future. As opposed to the Radicals who are trying to convince the people that the whole world is against them and they are trying to anger the people into fighting the whole world and injustice. Hope? What hope? They're presented themselves as saviors and the radicals as a bunch of primitive isolationists, but how exactly did DS prove that it is a competent party? And what about G-17+? Why is there still so much criminality and corruption? Why doesn't Serbia still have a proper economic policy? Am I supposed to believe they changed for the better? Should I really believe in their ridiculous promises, albeit they constantly failed to fulfil their former ones? No, of course not, in every normal country such liars would get punished by the voters, but not in Serbia where the normal citizen is understandably so horrified by the words "isolation" and "war" that demagogues like Boris Tadic have an absolutely easy play. The only merit the so-called Democrats have is a shallow sympathy bonus with the West and because of that a greater trust amongst Western corporations. Well, sympathy and trust is something you can gain, but competence isn't, and that's the most important reason for me never revolving Tadic's number on my ballot.

And please explain me why you think that respect of territorial integrity isn't important? Are you even aware of the implications such an attitude can generate?

P.S. And do never ever dare to attack me on such a slimy and disguisting personal way again, understand that?

[BW2]

Well said Paya and Pompejus.

Just a side note regarding the Radicals, Nikolic should abonded that idoit in the Hague, Šešelj. It could boost their image by loads.

[INAT]

Hope? What hope? They're presented themselves as saviors and the radicals as a bunch of primitive isolationists, but how exactly did DS prove that it is a competent party? And what about G-17+? Why is there still so much criminality and corruption? Why doesn't Serbia still have a proper economic policy? Am I supposed to believe they changed for the better? Should I really believe in their ridiculous promises, albeit they constantly failed to fulfil their former ones? No, of course not, in every normal country such liars would get punished by the voters, but not in Serbia where the normal citizen is understandably so horrified by the words "isolation" and "war" that demagogues like Boris Tadic have an absolutely easy play. The only merit the so-called Democrats have is a shallow sympathy bonus with the West and because of that a greater trust amongst Western corporations. Well, sympathy and trust is something you can gain, but competence isn't, and that's the most important reason for me never revolving Tadic's number on my ballot.

And please explain me why you think that respect of territorial integrity isn't important? Are you even aware of the implications such an attitude can generate?

P.S. And do never ever dare to attack me on such a slimy and disguisting personal way again, understand that?


Well look in just about every country they use fear as a means of control which is very effective.Vote for me or there will be another terror attack, the whole color code system (if they still use it) vote for me or we will be isolated and attacked.Fear and shock will make people beg for protection the government says sure we will protect you just give us more power and give up some rights.Tadic being a student of NWO has no problem with this tactic and uses it with skill.Also no matter what country
being a politician is the only job that you actually get rewarded the worse you do.It is easy to see they do not work for the benefit of common people but rather the interests of financial backers and Tadic's backers are the west.Serbs suffer and the EU
wins eventually gaining sovereignty over Srbija and then EU laws supersede Srbija's.

[Pleonasm]

Well said Paya and Pompejus.

Just a side note regarding the Radicals, Nikolic should abonded that idoit in the Hague, Šešelj. It could boost their image by loads.On the other hand, how would people see "domacin" Nikolic if he abandoned a former friend in the prison only because of political calculations? Difficult.


Well look in just about every country they use fear as a means of control which is very effective.Vote for me or there will be another terror attack, the whole color code system (if they still use it) vote for me or we will be isolated and attacked.Fear and shock will make people beg for protection the government says sure we will protect you just give us more power and give up some rights.Tadic being a student of NWO has no problem with this tactic and uses it with skill.Also no matter what country
being a politician is the only job that you actually get rewarded the worse you do.It is easy to see they do not worlk for the benefit of common people but rather the interests of financial backers and Tadic's backers are the west.Still, I think the effect in Serbia is because of her recent history especially strong. When I hear my relatives asking me if the Western media is talking about war in case the Radicals come to power, I just get sick. That's not the kind of fear voters here can feel, by far not.

[BW2]

On the other hand, how would people see "domacin" Nikolic if he abandoned a former friend in the prison only because of political calculations? Difficult. Depends on the people I think. Majority might see it as a good thing, would show a more moderated and levelheaded stance of Nikolic and SRS. Internal political betrayal has happened before wouldn't be exactly shocking. It could boost his personal image as a man of action rather than words. But anyways it was just my opinion, SRS isn't my party.

I think those 29% of Serbs voted for what SRS stood for and not Šešelj's desire to gouge the eyes of Croats with a rusty spoon.

[Pleonasm]

Depends on the people I think. Majority might see it as a good thing, would show a more moderated and levelheaded stance of Nikolic and SRS. Internal political betrayal has happened before wouldn't be exactly shocking. It could boost his personal image as a man of action rather than words. But anyways it was just my opinion, SRS isn't my party.Hard to tell, perhaps they would loose their hardcore voters, but I'm not sure how the Hague theater affected Seselj's popularity. I'm not following it, but I remember Milosevic's trial boosted whose popularity enormous.

I think those 29% of Serbs voted for what SRS stood for and not Šešelj's desire to gouge the eyes of Croats with a rusty spoon.That's for sure.

[Josip Broz]

How exactly is Kosovo lost cause? Is Republic of Srpska a lost cause as well? Look, I understand it's hard for you because there's no more Yugoslavia, but you should not be preaching to the people still living here. A little bit of dignity and self-respect can't hurt. I hope you enjoyed your beer this past weekend.

My comment about drinking was a metafor as to what people are striving for. A better standard or life for themselves and their families. If you really want to put it a proper way, the ability to have jobs, have a moderate income which will allow them to house themselves, feed and cloth themselves, enjoy a few luxuries in life, and retire peacefully.

How is it a lost cause? It's a lost cause because, it doesn't matter what the Serbs or the Kosovo Albanians think or what the real truth is. What matters it what the world thinks. The whole damn Kosovo thing was painted in the worlds minds as "the militant Serb storm troopers marching into poor innocent Kosovo and bullying them out of their homes". Thats the story that everyone believes and thats the story that everyone remembers -- if after all that, you still somehow managed to convince yourself that Kosovo will forever be yours -- well, i can't help you -- but you need your head examined. The world are convinced 100% that they did the right thing. So things ain't going back.

Note: This post has no bearing on how Kosovo's future will really turn out. And once financial aid and the hoopla and excitement dies down, they will realize that their biggest trading partners is Serbia -- and then, we will see interesting changes .. everything for more respect towards Serbs living in Kosovo, respect for Serb culture, and a much better realtionship between the governments. But it is a done deal. It's split. Just like the rest of former Yugo and a great many other countries to the north of Serbia.


Back to "dignity and self respect". So how far are you willing to push that to? To what ends and how far? We already have one or maybe even two generations of young bitter people that have known nothing but wars, oppression and poverty while watching neihbouring countries prosper. How many more generations do you want to add to that group?

[Josip Broz]

Hope? What hope? They're presented themselves as saviors and the radicals as a bunch of primitive isolationists, but how exactly did DS prove that it is a competent party? And what about G-17+? Why is there still so much criminality and corruption? Why doesn't Serbia still have a proper economic policy? Am I supposed to believe they changed for the better? Should I really believe in their ridiculous promises, albeit they constantly failed to fulfil their former ones? No, of course not, in every normal country such liars would get punished by the voters,


Like hell. What a load of BS. You don't think liars and cheats get elected in other countries?!? Geez, how peoples memories are short these days. Was it not only 8 years ago that GWB snuck his way into the WH in front of a befuddled watching world.



but not in Serbia where the normal citizen is understandably so horrified by the words "isolation" and "war" that demagogues like Boris Tadic have an absolutely easy play. The only merit the so-called Democrats have is a shallow sympathy bonus with the West and because of that a greater trust amongst Western corporations. Well, sympathy and trust is something you can gain, but competence isn't, and that's the most important reason for me never revolving Tadic's number on my ballot.

And please explain me why you think that respect of territorial integrity isn't important? Are you even aware of the implications such an attitude can generate?


Re; territorial integrity, refer to earlier post. The independece of Kosovo is the final completion of the break up of the former Yugoslavia. It was in the works and in the plans for a long time. Only Serbs blinded by their politicians and with nationalistic emotions manipulated by their politicians for political gain could have not see it coming. I am not saying it was right or it was just or it was fair -- I am saying it was to be done and Serbia really didn't have a chance in hell to prevent it.

Whether DS are slimey or cheats or Western bitches -- they were voted by the people. So whatever the Radicals are selling, the majority of the people don't want it. So lets go with what the people want and lets try to make Serbia into a great European nation instead of the continuing to be the bitter black sheep of Europe.

[V.I.D.]

Mr. Broz, I personally don't want another minute lost for anybody, be it a Serb, Albanian, Croat, Bosniak, whoever. The point is, the world as you call it is about 1/4 of population pressured by The Empire into recognizing a non-viable "state". I do agree with you, the things will have to be changed eventually, but it might be too late then. We might, we just might see young Serbs becoming what they've been portrayed for over a decade now in the world media, a bunch of ultranationalist, revengful thugs, not unlike Germany in the 30s who also believed an injustice had been done to them (rightfully or wrongfully so). The sad thing is, there is no happy solution now when the world decided to interfere in sovereign country's business. And once again, they chose the wrong people to experiment on. Good luck to us all, 'tis all I can say.

[Josip Broz]

Mr. Broz, I personally don't want another minute lost for anybody, be it a Serb, Albanian, Croat, Bosniak, whoever. The point is, the world as you call it is about 1/4 of population pressured by The Empire into recognizing a non-viable "state". I do agree with you, the things will have to be changed eventually, but it might be too late then. We might, we just might see young Serbs becoming what they've been portrayed for over a decade now in the world media, a bunch of ultranationalist, revengful thugs, not unlike Germany in the 30s who also believed an injustice had been done to them (rightfully or wrongfully so). The sad thing is, there is no happy solution now when the world decided to interfere in sovereign country's business. And once again, they chose the wrong people to experiment on. Good luck to us all, 'tis all I can say.

Dear Mr. VID, the "world" has been intervening in Serbia's business forever. If we were a little island in the middle of the Pacific with zero resources and zero strategic value, perhaps we would be left alone. Unfortunately, we are where we are and that is that!!

"Fighting for your rights!" "Fighting for your dignity!" "Fighting for your justice!" They are not free and they all have a price to be paid. That price would probably be adding another 10 to 20 years of continued rejection and punishment by EU nations against Serbia for refusing to play "the game".

In that time, those EU nations will continue to progress while Serbia continues to deteriorate. Were you around in the 70's and 80's? Do you remember what the world thought of Albania back then (note: this comment has absolutely nothing to do with Kosovo -- i am just using it as an example). Albania was thought of as this weird little strange backwards muslim country in the middle of Europe surrounded by all there modern industrialized nations. Well, thats what Serbia will become if we continue to fight everybody and everything.

[Crna Strela]

Thanks for the post INAT .. I just stumbled onto this article.



Whether DS are slimey or cheats or Western bitches -- they were voted by the people. So whatever the Radicals are selling, the majority of the people don't want it. So lets go with what the people want and lets try to make Serbia into a great European nation instead of the continuing to be the bitter black sheep of Europe.

Thats not true Josip .. No party has a clear majority in Serbia. The voting percentage hasn't changed - Radicals have there followers who always vote for them no matter what, this election they had 40,000 more votes than the previous. Tadic's 39% means nothing if he cant form a coalition and if he can't then he will actually be the loser in this election.
The 39% is not Tadic's popularity but a coalition his party ran with, including G17+, Canak, Draskovic and some other losers so when the votes are divided along the last election lines, his party's popularity hasnt changed (Well maybe by +1 extra seat but nothing to celebrate and get ecstatic about)

Serbia is divided close enough to 50-50 (Nationalists/Conservatives : Liberal/Pro EU no matter what price)

The only party that increased their percentage was the Socialists !



.............
That price would probably be adding another 10 to 20 years of continued rejection and punishment by EU nations against Serbia for refusing to play "the game".

In that time, those EU nations will continue to progress while Serbia continues to deteriorate.
..............
Well, thats what Serbia will become if we continue to fight everybody and everything.

Bring it on ! I left the West 10 years ago and its culture of consumerism for Serbia and as long as I have enough to put food in my mouth and all these beautiful girls around then better to die free and poor than a mortgaged up, bitter, soul :)

My bet is Radicals form an aliance with Kostunica and Socialists which would give them 1 seat majority (at the present count) and a 3 party parliament which is more stable than what we have had the last 8 years with 5-10 parties forming the parliament under Democrats. Then finally some pride can be brought back to the people which has all but gone.

[AN_TPS_63A]

Democrats. Then finally some pride can be brought back to the people which has all but gone.


What pride? With radicals? ;-)

[Josip Broz]

What pride? With radicals? ;-)

od topole, pa do ravne gore.... :)

[INAT]

od topole, pa do ravne gore.... :)

sve su straze, sve su straze, denerala Draze


Translation-All fear or are afraid of General Draza. EDIT:I got in trouble for posting in non-english.

[Pleonasm]

Like hell. What a load of BS. You don't think liars and cheats get elected in other countries?!? Geez, how peoples memories are short these days. Was it not only 8 years ago that GWB snuck his way into the WH in front of a befuddled watching world.BS? So it's bullsh*t that the economy policy of G 17+ and its fellows was and still is sh*tty, eh? Tell that the people down there whose temporary 'wealth' is only financed by credits.


Re; territorial integrity, refer to earlier post. The independece of Kosovo is the final completion of the break up of the former Yugoslavia. It was in the works and in the plans for a long time. Only Serbs blinded by their politicians and with nationalistic emotions manipulated by their politicians for political gain could have not see it coming. I am not saying it was right or it was just or it was fair -- I am saying it was to be done and Serbia really didn't have a chance in hell to prevent it. Are you really aware of the importance of territorial integrity? That's not a stupid invention for nationalists, but a key for a state. Let's suppose you accept Kosovo's loss in the way it was implemented, what then? Do you think Halimi and Pastor will care for sui generis explanations? Of course not and the result will be constant destability and do you really think that's a good prerequisite for a prosperous Serbia? The Marshall would say no and rightfully so.


Whether DS are slimey or cheats or Western bitches -- they were voted by the people. So whatever the Radicals are selling, the majority of the people don't want it. So lets go with what the people want and lets try to make Serbia into a great European nation instead of the continuing to be the bitter black sheep of Europe.What are you talking about? Tadic formed a coalition with G-17+, Canak, Ljajic and Vuk Draskovic and failed to persuade the majority. On the other hand you have three parties and coalitions that are able to form a stable government and to reach consensus on their most important principles respectively.

What a disorder: Conservatives and Socialists in one and the same government. But again, Serbia's policy is strange. Analysts started these days even to characterise the DS as leftist, and as a lefty I take that personal. :D

[Josip Broz]

Are you really aware of the importance of territorial integrity?


It's finished!!! Making a case for territorial integrity is for privaledged powerful countries. Not for countries like us. There was a poster who was warning and comparing us and our youth to Nazi germany and the Nazi youth movement of the 30's. Let me tell you, we are nothing like Germany was in the 30's. Germany completely occupied and dominated the economies of the Balkan countries before it invaded and occupied them territorially. They were one of the most powerful countries in the world, both economically and militarily, even before WWII started.



.. and the result will be constant destability and do you really think that's a good prerequisite for a prosperous Serbia?


We don't know what the results will be. I personally don't think it will destabilize. Nothing in Kosovo will change. Decades of Yugo communist money didn't make a difference in Kosovo. Decades of EU money will not make any difference either.

What I think will happen is, nothing. Nothing will change in Kosovo. The excitement of independece will wear off, the EU aid will dwindle, and the cold hard reality will sink in. The same problems that have plagued them in the past will continue to plague them in the future. Low literacy, low education, high unemployment, low economy, no people that know how to kick start the economy, a people that don't want change but want things to stay the same -- backwards!! -- and all those other fun things that have kept Kosovo where it is.

[Pleonasm]

It's finished!!!For you perhaps, but for the Serbs there, it's not.

Making a case for territorial integrity is for privaledged powerful countries. Not for countries like us. Following your logic fight against the fascist aggressors was only something for rich and mighty countries, right? Tito would be ashamed of you. The people of Serbia obviously chose not only resistance, but also change. Who are you to deny them this choise?

We don't know what the results will be. I personally don't think it will destabilize. Nothing in Kosovo will change. Decades of Yugo communist money didn't make a difference in Kosovo. Decades of EU money will not make any difference either. Was I talking about Kosovo? No, I wasn't unless Pastor and Halimi became local politicians in Kosovo, which they didn't.

[Paya]

@Josip Broz

Forgive me mate, but your comprehension of the general feeling among Serbs and of our political scene is somewhat lacking.

First of, Tadic has repeatedly said that if he or his party is made to choose between EU membership and the territorial integrity of Serbia, he would choose the latter. If he didn't, his party would have gotten about as many votes as LDP.

Second, this may surprise you, but the youth of Serbia is getting more and more nationalistic, which I witnessed first-hand, when forced to literally walk through the radicals' rally in Trg Republike on my way to work. There were a lot, and I mean a lot of urban youths (piercings, disturbing haircuts, and so on).

And third, the Serbs as a whole will never give up Kosovo. Apart from a small group of wannabe immigrants (no offense) assembled around LDP, the people from all walks of life, liberals, nationalists, the poor and the wealthy, they all agree that injustice has been done upon us, and that sooner or later, we will regain control over Kosovo. And if we are known for something, it's for being pigheaded. Just look up "inat" in the dictionary.

[kNikS]

I understand that the non-Serb residents of Srbija voted for Tadic the Magyars in Vojvodina the Ruthinians, Hrvati,Albanains not in Kosovo-Metohija,Roma,Gorani,Bosanci etc and in the past them had and effect but I really thought Serbians would be smart enough to not be fooled by Tadic again who is asking people to vote on the pact with Satan(SAA)
without disclosing the contects of it.Now whatever happens in internal matters Srbija deserves it.
Stupidity is the norm here, not the exception. It's still sad, though.

[Pleonasm]

I hope Arkan visits Palma's dreams this night, otherwise it will be difficult to convince the pighead to renounce his wish for ratifying the SAA.

Pah, I have to hope for the ghost of a dead mafia boss and war criminal to bring a local politician back in order, oh Serbia, Serbia.

@kniks. Last time I was in Sabac, my aunt was trying to convince me how splendid, how noble, how intelligent, how good-looking Cedomir Jovanovic is. She tried that a whole fcking hour. Is the state of the society really that bad?

[kNikS]

@kniks. Last time I was in Sabac, my aunt was trying to convince me how splendid, how noble, how intelligent, how good-looking Cedomir Jovanovic is. She tried that a whole fcking hour. Is the state of the society really that bad?
Well.. you get the idea how depressive it might be when a beautiful girl whom you just met starts with the same sh!t.

[Pleonasm]

Well.. you get the idea how depressive it might be when a beautiful girl whom you just met starts with the same sh!t.Oh, snap. That... that was a damn good example, mate. I'm feeling with you.

[kNikS]

Sve za majku Srbiju.. even abstinence. :cantbeli:

[Pleonasm]

Sve za majku Srbiju.. even abstinence. :cantbeli:What? No girls voting for the (ah, how should we start to call them? Patriotic bloc? Hm, well) patriotic bloc? It can't be that bad.

[kNikS]

I actuelly spent five minutes trying to type something sensible.. and the bottom line would be: it's almost as bad. You know how it is, new pair of shoes and a trip to Barcelona doesn't really sound like something you could hear from Kostunica or Nikolic. :|

[Pleonasm]

I actuelly spent five minutes trying to type something sensible.. and the bottom line would be: it's almost as bad. You know how it is, new pair of shoes and a trip to Barcelona doesn't really sound like something you could hear from Kostunica or Nikolic. :|Hm, yes, that's for sure. Kostunica is talking about 'abstract' law and Nikolic...

Nah, I want to loose too much words on this topic. Although I only own our FR Yugoslav passport and am therefore as restricted for travel as Belgrade chicks, I still live in Switzerland where even poor people have a nice life. It would be to easy for me to rattle about the need for dignity and how justice is more important than bread. On the other hand, I don't think that there will be that much bread with DS either.

[BW2]

Congrats Tadic and co...


Prague encouraged by Serbia vote, rethinks Kosovo 13 May 2008 | 15:23 | Source: Beta PRAGUE -- The Czech government will try to recognize Kosovo’s unilaterally proclaimed independence next week, which it failed to do on April 2.

“At one of the coming government meetings we will return to the question of Kosovo,” Czech Deputy Prime Minister Aleksandar Vondra told daily Hospodarske Noviny.

This will be the second attempt by the Czech government to recognize the Kosovo Albanians' secession.

The next attempt could prove to be successful since Prime Minister Miroslav Topolanek’s Civic Democratic Party appears to be budging on the issue.

The president and founder of the party, Vaclav Klaus is categorically against recognizing Kosovo.

“Not even the positive result of the Serbian elections changes my stance that recognizing Kosovo will be a great mistake for the international community. However, the Czech stance can no longer change the fact that the province is independent,” said Czech Labor Minister Petr Nečas.

After failing to adopt the resolution for recognizing the Kosovo independence on April 2, the Czech government postponed the vote until after the Serbian parliamentary elections.

“The results of the Serbian elections were a pleasant surprise. That is the reason why the Democratic-Christians are thinking about allowing Kosovo to be recognized,” said Minister without Portfolio Cyril Svoboda.

The Czech National Party will decided today if it will try and block the move, since the Democratic Christian Union alone does not have enough votes in the cabinet to do so.

[Josip Broz]

And third, the Serbs as a whole will never give up Kosovo. Apart from a small group of wannabe immigrants (no offense) assembled around LDP, the people from all walks of life, liberals, nationalists, the poor and the wealthy, they all agree that injustice has been done upon us, and that sooner or later, we will regain control over Kosovo. And if we are known for something, it's for being pigheaded. Just look up "inat" in the dictionary.

Ja vrlo dobro znam sta je "inat". "-)

I know what you are saying. I remember reading a quote from a priest. "Kosovo independence is just a phase. Kosovo has always been a part of Serbia, and it will be ours again, in 20, 50 or 500 years. It will be ours again".

So instead of choosing to find a way to become a more modern, peacful, country, we choose to be more militant and aggressive. And why is that?

"E, bas za inat jeba ce mo mater svima!" Am I right? The typical Serb mentality.

There is a famous quote I once read.

"Suspicion keeps people isolated. And isolation keeps them suspicious." It's a vicious circle.

[BW2]

Broz you just spat in the face of every respectable Serb who ever gave their life for another or lost it for being what they are, a Serb. Your post is so insulting you make me sick to my stomach. I hope for your children's sake you teach them some self respect and to stand up for them selves rather than sit down and shut up anytime someone bigger than them says so.

Militant and aggressive? God forbid a sovereign nation should defend its borders against open hostility both internally and externally. Such militism and aggressive behavior is unacceptable....

I guess the KLA threw what? fart and sunshine at us? And look where that got them?

I guess letting yourself be trampled upon is the "modern" thing to do these days.... If it were up to you I bet Serbia would be the "most modern" of all nations in Europe and the world!

Your just a sorry self loathing loser who cant get over the fact that Yugoslavia is gone and thank god for that. I'm tired of giving Slovens and Croats second chances after they join the wrong/losing side and then come crawling back.

I bet those Serbs in Kosovo really wish they could buy their kids popcorn too if they weren't too busy being killed. Grow a f**king back bone you snake!

I'm outta here, this prick did it for me.

[INAT]

Look how effective anti-Serb propaganda has been.Whether outside of Srbija or inside we are being taught that we are guilty,backward, violent and unrefined.What is going to happen to the next generation who is bombarded daily with b92 and their ilk "news".Serbian media is not Serbian owned and it has had a damaging effect on the nation's psyche. And with people like Natasa Kandic that great "humanitarian" we are trouble.I never understood people who hate their own.I hope Broz you do not really feel like that.Look at how Srbija was seen in ww1 ww2 and now all of a sudden we are evil? come on have we changed or has the preception of us changed.The US and England adored Srbija when we were fighting fascism and now that we are fighting against their imperialism(sorry I don't know what else to call it) we are the "bad" guys.

Here is Kandic hitting and old man that did not agree with her.What a humanitarian. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01Z-549wQqw

[Josip Broz]

Look at how Srbija was seen in ww1 ww2 and now all of a sudden we are evil? come on have we changed or has the preception of us changed.

We have not changed. The perception of us has changed. And that is the root of the problem. The world (meaning the ones that have urged and recognized the Kosovo seperation) are 100% convinced that they have done a great and good and just thing. And there is very little we can do about it.

[Josip Broz]

Broz you just spat in the face of every respectable Serb who ever gave their life for another or lost it for being what they are, a Serb. Your post is so insulting you make me sick to my stomach. I hope for your children's sake you teach them some self respect and to stand up for them selves rather than sit down and shut up anytime someone bigger than them says so.

Militant and aggressive? God forbid a sovereign nation should defend its borders against open hostility both internally and externally. Such militism and aggressive behavior is unacceptable....

I guess the KLA threw what? fart and sunshine at us? And look where that got them?

I guess letting yourself be trampled upon is the "modern" thing to do these days.... If it were up to you I bet Serbia would be the "most modern" of all nations in Europe and the world!

Your just a sorry self loathing loser who cant get over the fact that Yugoslavia is gone and thank god for that. I'm tired of giving Slovens and Croats second chances after they join the wrong/losing side and then come crawling back.

I bet those Serbs in Kosovo really wish they could buy their kids popcorn too if they weren't too busy being killed. Grow a f**king back bone you snake!

I'm outta here, this prick did it for me.

Bluewing, I am sorry that this thread is taking this turn. I think you are over reacting and your resort to insults is unjustfied. So you are for fighting and I am against wasting any more time on the place. Thus, according to you I am a snake and have no backbone. Why? Because I want peace and prosperify for Serbia? That does not make any sense.


Re: my avatar. My choice of the Marshall is not because I long for the long lost days of Yugoslavia. I chose it because I think it's a funny and ironic picture. The old guy with his pipe and a sneaky smile. If you look close at his face, it's almost as if he's saying, "You see, I told you this was gonna happen. That's why I did what I had to do.".

[Josip Broz]

Look how effective anti-Serb propaganda has been.Whether outside of Srbija or inside we are being taught that we are guilty,backward, violent and unrefined.

I never said that I thought we are guilty, violent and backward. I actually don't think that. What I am saying is that the world thinks we are guilty, backward and violent. This is in great part due to the "fact" that Clinton/Albright won the propaganda wars against Milosevic. That is a fact!!

And now us raising our weapons and raging how we will "get Kosovo back at all costs come hell or high water" definatly does not help change that perception.

[Crna Strela]

Very good points INAT,


Look how effective anti-Serb propaganda has been.Whether outside of Srbija or inside we are being taught that we are guilty,backward, violent and unrefined.What is going to happen to the next generation who is bombarded daily with b92 and their ilk "news".Serbian media is not Serbian owned and it has had a damaging effect on the nation's psyche. And with people like Natasa Kandic that great "humanitarian" we are trouble.I never understood people who hate their own.I hope Broz you do not really feel like that.Look at how Srbija was seen in ww1 ww2 and now all of a sudden we are evil? come on have we changed or has the preception of us changed.The US and England adored Srbija when we were fighting fascism and now that we are fighting against their imperialism(sorry I don't know what else to call it) we are the "bad" guys.


Makes me sick to the bone how Serbia is being subjected to this brain-washing by Western controlled media. I hope the Radicals/DSS/SPS form a government and get rid of FOX and B92. Having worked in the Western media for 10 years I can see exactly the techniques they use.

Tomorrow Radicals and DSS are having talks with SPS .. Radicals and DSS today drew up the first plans for a coalition and I am guessing will present it to SPS tomorrow. Fingers crossed it all goes well.

[V.I.D.]

It's finished!!! Making a case for territorial integrity is for privaledged powerful countries. Not for countries like us. There was a poster who was warning and comparing us and our youth to Nazi germany and the Nazi youth movement of the 30's. Let me tell you, we are nothing like Germany was in the 30's. Germany completely occupied and dominated the economies of the Balkan countries before it invaded and occupied them territorially. They were one of the most powerful countries in the world, both economically and militarily, even before WWII started.
_________________________________________________________________

I am sorry that you have failed to see through my sarcasm, I guess you did not get the reference. I used Germany in 30s as that is a notion continously brought up in relation to Serbs throughout 90s and 00s in a good chunk of Western Media and their franchises at home (B92, for example). Of course, the Serbs are nothing like that. Hence, my upset at the audacity to give the only true anti-Nazi Balkan nation (along with Greeks) such name and for providing such comparisons for 15+ years now.

As for the rest, though, I do have to agree with Paya that good part of the youth is becoming ultranationalistic (not necessarily a positive thing) and I do put a lot of blame for such re-directing on the above mentioned players suported by Soros and other "freedom-loving" people who backed up Milosevic and other garbage while it suited them fine. The fact, though, which I have to emphasize here, is that just because the "world" (that is, still a minor part of it) decided to play with Serbian borders it does not mean it will EVER have to be accepted by this proud nation. It is they who have changed and lost their track/decency, not us. For me, every true Serb is ashamed of all crimes comitted in his/her name (ex: Srebrenica, siege of Sarajevo), but proud of its people's sacrifices through centuries and knows that Kosovo is Serbia as much as Belgrade or Sumadija. And that will never change, no matter what others want.

[Josip Broz]

I am sorry that you have failed to see through my sarcasm, I guess you did not get the reference. I used Germany in 30s as that is a notion continously brought up in relation to Serbs throughout 90s and 00s in a good chunk of Western Media and their franchises at home (B92, for example). Of course, the Serbs are nothing like that. Hence, my upset at the audacity to give the only true anti-Nazi Balkan nation (along with Greeks) such name and for providing such comparisons for 15+ years now.

As for the rest, though, I do have to agree with Paya that good part of the youth is becoming ultranationalistic (not necessarily a positive thing) and I do put a lot of blame for such re-directing on the above mentioned players suported by Soros and other "freedom-loving" people who backed up Milosevic and other garbage while it suited them fine. The fact, though, which I have to emphasize here, is that just because the "world" (that is, still a minor part of it) decided to play with Serbian borders it does not mean it will EVER have to be accepted by this proud nation. It is they who have changed and lost their track/decency, not us. For me, every true Serb is ashamed of all crimes comitted in his/her name (ex: Srebrenica, siege of Sarajevo), but proud of its people's sacrifices through centuries and knows that Kosovo is Serbia as much as Belgrade or Sumadija. And that will never change, no matter what others want.


You know what. After ranting and reading and discussing on this forum -- perhaps I learnt something. I guess not everyone in Serbia wants to accept the "West". (Either that -- or the forum is chalk full on Chetnicks.) I guess it's okay. Everyone has a right to an opinion and their own aspirations for Serbia.

I also want to correct one thing. And perhaps I might have mis-represeted while typing away in haste. I am not strongly against Serbia refusing to recognize Kosovo. What I am really strongly against is all of Serbia going up in arms and starting another war down there -- either alone or with whomever -- all in the name of "Kosovo is ours". Remember, we already did that once before and it didn't work. There is nothing to think that if we did it again it will work any better. One again, I am strongly against losing another Serb life over Kosovo.

As far as recognition or waves of recognition for Kosovo. I have no qualms with Serbia refusing to recognize Kosovo or trying to keep the stale mate politically. Besides, I think the only waves we will see with regards to Kosovo is the waves of Kosovo Albanians moving out into other parts of EU.

[Nebelwerfer.]

I'm tired of giving Slovens and Croats second chances after they join the wrong/losing side and then come crawling back.

What a retarded comment. :cantbeli:

[V.I.D.]

What I am really strongly against is all of Serbia going up in arms and starting another war down there -- either alone or with whomever -- all in the name of "Kosovo is ours".
_________________________________________________________________

I can't speak for others, but I do believe that most would agree about this. However, it should not have come to this so-called UDI and forced recognitions. I remember watching this documentary from 2002 (description below) and there was this high U.S. representative for Balkan who, when asked about future of Kosovo region, replied "we don't want breaking borders and creation of another country in this area" (something along those lines). I can't remember his name now, but it was very prominent part of the film. So, what exactly has happened in those last 5-6 years? How did it come to this then if "no more border breaking" is to be allowed? I'll tell you, hypocrisy is not strong enough of a word.


http://www.aforcemorepowerful.org/images/filmsLabel.gif
http://www.aforcemorepowerful.org/images/dictator.jpg
Bringing Down A Dictator documents the spectacular defeat of Slobodan Milosevic in October, 2000, not by force of arms, as many had predicted, but by an ingenious nonviolent strategy of honest elections and massive civil disobedience.
Milosevic was strengthened by patriotic fervor when NATO bombed Yugoslavia in early 1999, but a few months later, a student movement named Otpor! (“Resistance” in Serbian) launched a surprising offensive. Audaciously demanding the removal of Milosevic, they recruited where discontent was strongest, in the Serbian heartland.
Their weapons were rock concerts and ridicule, the internet and email, spray-painted slogans and a willingness to be arrested. Otpor students became the shock troops in an army of human rights, pro-democracy, anti-war, women’s groups, and opposition political parties. Their slogan: "He’s Finished!"
Trained in nonviolent action and partially financed by the US and western Europe, they forged a unified political opposition, fought to stop vote fraud, and systematically undermined police and army loyalty. When Milosevic refused to accept defeat at the polls, the opposition called a general strike. As normal life ground to a halt, Serbs by the hundreds of thousands poured into the capital on October 5 to seize the Federal Parliament in a dramatic triumph for democracy. The one-hour documentary is narrated by Martin Sheen.
Bringing Down A Dictator is available on DVD in both the NTSC and PAL television systems, and in the following languages: Arabic, Burmese, English, Farsi, French, Indonesian, Mandarin, Russian, Spanish and Vietnamese

[Pleonasm]

What an interesting choice of languages. Who's who of Western enemies, eh?

[cinoeye]

That is funny!

[kNikS]

Hm, yes, that's for sure. Kostunica is talking about 'abstract' law and Nikolic...

Nah, I want to loose too much words on this topic. Although I only own our FR Yugoslav passport and am therefore as restricted for travel as Belgrade chicks, I still live in Switzerland where even poor people have a nice life. It would be to easy for me to rattle about the need for dignity and how justice is more important than bread. On the other hand, I don't think that there will be that much bread with DS either.
No problem with that - I myself 'rattle' about dignity whenever I have a chance; it would be better if today's generation would be less shortsighted and ****e to shallow propaganda, and more ready to tighten the belt for the better tomorrow of all Serbs.

[Pleonasm]

No problem with that - I myself 'rattle' about dignity whenever I have a chance; it would be better if today's generation would be less shortsighted and ****e to shallow propaganda, and more ready to tighten the belt for the better tomorrow of all Serbs.However the people that live in Serbia chose, I'll be content, although I think that the better alternative for Serbia is a government without DS and LPD. Not only because of Kosovo, but also because of the economy.

P.S. The good thing is that we will have a quick government formation. Tomorrow we'll know. Oh Lord, give Ivica some wisdom and ransom him from his short-sighted party interests.

[BW2]

What a retarded comment. Oh if I only put gift wrapping too just for you. Comment stands, got a problem with it? Don't care.

[Nebelwerfer.]

Comment stands, got a problem with it? Don't care.

Yes I do, you dumb clown, because you're twisting the facts and lying. Noone crawled into Kingdom of SHS. Slovenes, Croats & Serbs together founded constitutional monarchy that turned to be hegemonistic, centralized and unitaristic dictatorship led by Aleksandar Karađorđević. As for post WW2 scenario, it's not like Slovenia & Croatia had a choice...they did not.

[kNikS]

Yes I do, you dumb clown, because you're twisting the facts and lying. Noone crawled into Kingdom of SHS.

Yes they did, with State of SHS.



Slovenes, Croats & Serbs together founded constitutional monarchy that turned to be hegemonistic, centralized and unitaristic dictatorship led by Aleksandar Karađorđević.

Not before Croats started with nationalist crap.



As for post WW2 scenario, it's not like Slovenia & Croatia had a choice...they did not.
Which actually proves his point.

[Nebelwerfer.]

:| Umm, okay...if you say so.

[INAT]

You know what. After ranting and reading and discussing on this forum -- perhaps I learnt something. I guess not everyone in Serbia wants to accept the "West". (Either that -- or the forum is chalk full on Chetnicks.) I guess it's okay. Everyone has a right to an opinion and their own aspirations for Serbia.

I also want to correct one thing. And perhaps I might have mis-represeted while typing away in haste. I am not strongly against Serbia refusing to recognize Kosovo. What I am really strongly against is all of Serbia going up in arms and starting another war down there -- either alone or with whomever -- all in the name of "Kosovo is ours". Remember, we already did that once before and it didn't work. There is nothing to think that if we did it again it will work any better. One again, I am strongly against losing another Serb life over Kosovo.

As far as recognition or waves of recognition for Kosovo. I have no qualms with Serbia refusing to recognize Kosovo or trying to keep the stale mate politically. Besides, I think the only waves we will see with regards to Kosovo is the waves of Kosovo Albanians moving out into other parts of EU.

Hmm why do you see us wanting to keep our land as starting a war when the other side has done everything it could to try to make that happen.Are the people that need armed guard to go see their dead relatives the war mongers in your eyes.I think your comments are idiotic and maybe you have been living in the west too long.I as someone that lives in between Srbija and the US do not have a problem accepting the west.I know people in America are kind and generous.What I have a problem with is the western policy and double standards.Have you not noticed that the land Serbs once lived on is getting smaller and smaller
And yet we are labeled aggressors.I cannot speak for anyone but myself
but if the west started to treat Srbija with respect why would anyone have a problem in their attitude? Can you not see further than calling
someone cetnik because they are not OK with the destruction of their home? Besides what Serb calls other Serbs cetniks?I thought that was reserved for Croats and Muslims to call us. With your avatar and your comments I wonder if you are even Serbian.

[Sanat-e-naft]

Many of the Serbs I knew told me prior to the election that it would be a blow out, that Tadic's party was a party of traitors and were scared to even be seen in public. I believed them, and then had the good fortune to be in Europe during the Election and wach a great deal of coverage of the results. I am sure there are many reasons why Tadic's party won, but I was wondering if I had simply been listening to Serb ex-pats who were out of touch with the Serbs still at home. Is there truth to that? Additionally, I was informed after the election that it didnt matter that more people voted for Tadic's party, since the others would simply bypass the election and forn a radical coalition. This seemed to be un-ethical. I am not a Serb, so possibly have little insight into the true issues at hand, but it seemed underhanded to simply bypass a group that won by 10%. Are the Serbs in Serbia being circumvented by a group of radicals, or are the people on the side of the radicals? Also, infighting wont bring back Kosovo, the longer Serbs fight one another the less the chances of bringing back your heartland... seems unfortunate.

[BW2]

It is very unfortunate indeed, Sanat-e-naft.

Glad you asked the questions you did and I am more than happy to address them. Tadic's coalition (and not Tadic alone) won 38% of votes cast while the Radicals won 29% alone and Kostunica won 11%. Not one party in Serbia managed to pass the 50%+ or 126+ seats required to form a government on their own as stated in the constitution.

If that is the case the constitution then states that the parliamentary parties must form coalitions that are able to fill those 126 seats in parliament, hence forming a government. All of this "will of the people" and "respect for the majority" from Tadic's camp is a load of hot air, as simple mathematics prove he does not have a majority in any sense. As far as the constitution is concerned the government is up for grabs to who ever can fill those 126 vacant seats. Tadic now can't let go of the possibility of losing out on a government because he cant muster enough support to form a majority.

Also it's important to note that the Radicals are not the only opposition to Tadic, nor are they circumventing anyone in Serbia, quite the opposite really. This has got to have been the dirtiest campaign I have ever seen in my life and it really showed Tadic's and his parties true colours. Incredibly manipulative, arrogant, hostile and deceptive. Your friends aren't wrong in my opinion, even if they were they are entitled to their own views. Its a very complex situation. The country is really divided morally. Lots of people have abandoned any hope of defending our integrity and only want to be in Europe under the false allusion that their problems will go away then. Tadic fits the bill for them, so here we are where we are.

Almost forgot to add that if no one can form a government in a 2 month deadline then new elections will be held.

[Sanat-e-naft]

Thank you very much, that clears up a number of things. Oh man, another election... just what the doctor ordered right? Well, hopefully it will sort out sooner rather than later.

[Crna Strela]

Very good response BlueWings, your reply just about sums it up in a nutshell



Additionally, I was informed after the election that it didn’t matter that more people voted for Tadic's party, since the others would simply bypass the election and form a radical coalition. This seemed to be un-ethical.


I would answer this part with the fact that in the last election the radical party won the majority of votes and Tadic's Democrats went on to form a coalition government with all the smaller parties. Leaving the majority of voters in the opposition so tadic's rhetoric this time that he (paraphrasing)

- "wont let the minority parties form the government" is hypocritical and un-democratic

[Sumadinac]

In my opinion, all these parties are bad for Serbia. Kostunica's party (DSS) joins Nikolic's party (SRS) just because of.. Kosovo. What about economic and social policies?

[BW2]

In my opinion, all these parties are bad for Serbia. Kostunica's party (DSS) joins Nikolic's party (SRS) just because of.. Kosovo. What about economic and social policies? We can't blame anyone but our selves. We're a small country with a small population and yet we have a zillion different parties, most of which share the same ideology but want their own party for the hell of it. Have a look at Some of them... you'll see some which would be unheard of in other places. :cantbeli:

No I'm not exactly pleased that my party (DSS) might have to share power with socialists who I hate, and SRS who has the most shameful leader (Šešelj).

Economic and social polices of the socialist is pretty obvious while DSS being the largest conservative party is also a given, I have no idea what eco/so polices SRS has... how thats going to work (if they get together) will be interesting to see.

Its a pity that every election we have will be doomed to lead to another coalition government. In that regard our country is a bit "too democratic" sounds weird I know but to the point where it cant function properly. Three parliamentary parties is more than enough (left,center,right). Don't even get me started on minorities. Its far better to have ethnic representatives in the larger parties that actually have a chance of running the country, to voice your interests rather than have a party that will hardly ever win one or two seats in parliament.