Largest ever immigration raid in US

[ronnieraygun]

Immigration raid in Iowa largest ever in US
http://www.breitbart.com/images/common/dot.gifMay 13 02:11 PM US/Eastern

http://www.breitbart.com/images/common/dot.gifDES MOINES, Iowa (AP) - Federal officials say a raid at a northeastern Iowa meat processing plant this week was the largest in U.S. history.
Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials say 390 people have been arrested on immigration charges after Monday's raid at Agriprocessors Inc. in Postville. The facility is the world's largest kosher meatpacking plant.
The raid was aimed at seeking evidence of identity theft, stolen Social Security numbers and people who are in the country illegally.
Fifty-six of those arrested have been released on humanitarian grounds; many of them have to take care of children.
Others arrested in the raid at are being held in county jails and at a converted fairgrounds.




Holy crap, isn't this the town with several thousand Lubavitch out in the middle of nowhere?


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D90KTL0O1&show_article=1

[bd popeye]

Holy crap, isn't this the town with several thousand Lubavitch out in the middle of nowhere?

Kinda sorta..But everthing in Iowa is in the middle of no where. I know..I live here.

The raid is big news here in Iowa. The focus seems to be on the children of those arrested. The government claims all the kiddies will be taken care of one way or another.

Some folks here in Iowa are complaining that these illeagls are taking away jobs from Iowans...Really? If so why didn't Iowans apply for those jobs? ..I'm not sure what the wage at that rendering plant was.

[Power_serj]

Maybe the Iowans did apply for the job, but the illegal workers got the job because they can be paid substandard wages. Also, these illegals should be required sent to jail and required to pay everything from tax evasion.

[Marshall_Nord]

Some folks here in Iowa are complaining that these illeagls are taking away jobs from Iowans...Really? If so why didn't Iowans apply for those jobs? ..I'm not sure what the wage at that rendering plant was.

Because most Iowans aren’t willing to work in those conditions for what these employers offer in wages and benefits.

These greedy corporations need a constant flow of “underground” employees so they can eliminate the expenses that are required with an employee having valid identification. If these people don’t really exist, because they are illegal, who checks to see if the employer is paying Social Security, Medicare, Unemployment, Workman’s Comp., etc.? It’s the equivalent of hiring a cash employee.

[Invisigoth]

Maybe the Iowans did apply for the job, but the illegal workers got the job because they can be paid substandard wages. Also, these illegals should be required sent to jail and required to pay everything from tax evasion.

Yeah because the U.S. jail system really needs more inmates. Great idea.

[AlterMega]

Yeah because the U.S. jail system really needs more inmates. Great idea.
These are criminals,why shouldn't they be jailed?If an American were to commit one of these offenses they would be jailed as well.

[Murph]

Yeah because the U.S. jail system really needs more inmates. Great idea.

Well, If you deport them they just jump the boarder again.

But if you deport them to Iraq...

[Invisigoth]

These are criminals,why shouldn't they be jailed?If an American were to commit one of these offenses they would be jailed as well.

Because quite a few states already have to let inmates go because they can't even house them anymore. Go aggressively after those people that employ illegal aliens, especially the big corporations. That's how you get results.

[Ordie]

It's a tough issue especially for local law enforcement and social services agencies now dealing with children who otherwise be taken care of by families.

Undocumented immigrants do contribute to the local tax revenues through sales, property and income taxes. In many cases, the population exodus from the midwest has been mitigated because of immigrant labor. In the long run, the loss of population does impact the state representation in Congress and federal funding recieved based on the census data.

I predict local revenues through the sales of goods and services will fall because of this raid. Moreover, local law enforcement, municipalities and schools will have a difficult time to regain the confidence and trust of the Hispanic community at large. Especially in unreported crimes, truancies, and community outreach.

I should know, both of my parents were undocumented immigrants and we were survivors of such raids in Los Angeles. I was trained to avoid people in uniforms and to give false information. We always had a safe house to go to or seek refuge at the church if LAPD or INS arrived. The California Highway Patrol was the only exception to the rule, they always helped you when you're in trouble on the freeways.

If anything, the current immigration system is broken, inconsistant, and arbitrary. It needs to be fixed.

[noname]

This is just a dog and pony show for public consumption, to make it look like our governement is "serious" about illegal immigration. They know it and most American know, that the government isn't serious about this problem, since the fines levied against these companies isn't substantial enough to shut them down.

Meanwhile, our brown workers from the south continue to cycle through the country and work for months or years before being deported again for the umpteenth time. I wouldn't be surprised if alot of these caught in the raid yesterday have not done this dance before.

The whole issue here is simple economics. These companies can no longer be profitable using domestic labor with the high cost of satisfiying various alphabet agencies for their share of the profit. Therefore, they must resort to bringing in the illegals and taking advantage of them, cheating the criminals in the IRS of their blood money, and hurting the economy while billions of dollars return to the mexican economy.

As far as the people caught who had children to take care of, well, they should have played by the rules and gotten legal status first. :bash:

[Ordie]

they should have played by the rules and gotten legal status first. :bash:
That is an issue because the rules and policies are inconsistant, arbitrary and always changing based on political motivations. There is no rational and uniform means to reside and work in this country.

Getting into the country depends upon if you're a Cuban, Indian, British, or from Saudi Arabia. We have a shortage of M.D. but make it impossible for international doctors to practice medicine in this country. Yet we allow 19 Saudi men for flight training and we all know what happend afterwards.

[Nano]

I agree with Ordie's take on it, but the policy has always been as it was and is not inconsistent. It is quite simple businesses get their cheap labor in the good times and the illegals are scapegoated when the hard times hit. This has always been the real policy.

Love how almost no one here puts any responsibility on the company for hiring illegals. Some even went as far as to excuse company greed. This largest ever immigration raid should also be followed by the largest fine to the owners or heads of the company, but then again that is probably not going to happen.

I don't excuse the actions of the illegals, but how can you blame them when the law is unenforced till the hard times hit and businesses are rarely fined for their unethical practices.
If anything I feel bad for how illegals are blamed for it all, while Americans conveniently look the other way with regard to government and business collusion in all of this.

[gilgoul]

How many of those held Israeli or Eastern European passports?
The link didnt provide any info.

And quite honestly, I don't mind having them deported ASAP wherever they come from, and their employers, may they be kosher or not, be fined big time for hiring illegals, with all the drop in salaries and lower cost in social welfare they saved, they should pay their ass off, that is what we do in Israel, not efficiently enough though.

[gilgoul]

I
I don't excuse the actions of the illegals, but how can you blame them when the law is unenforced till the hard times hit and businesses are rarely fined for their unethical practices.
If anything I feel bad for how illegals are blamed for it all, while Americans conveniently look the other way with regard to government and business collusion in all of this.

Agree 100%
Make the companies feel the heat, bring them down if exemple needs to be set, but as long as we are going to find good excuses for companies, they are going to hire illegals, because it is worth it.
And immigrants find themselves victims of that.

[Nano]

I think that the heads/owners of these companies out to be fined and not necessarily the companies themselves. It is easy enough for government to conveniently avoid fining companies, because of the unintended impact it could have on the economy and legal workers. This way even a very large company who may employ thousands of both legal and illegal workers does not go out of business and people are still held accountable. This idea will never come about, because it will surely see opposition from all business classes, unions, and the various politicians who pander to immigrant communities and business owners.

That or change immigration policy to one of equal sharing of blame between the political parties and business interests for the current disgrace and provide some means for these workers to work here legally. This too is unlikely to happen until a certain downward level of pressure on wages brought on by the influx of illegal immigrants over the decades and their offspring is achievable through a poverty cycle. This however seems to have support from both immigrant groups and business groups. In time this will likely be an outcome supplemented with some enforcement mechanism to make the majority of constituents happy.

This is really what the policy change movement is headed towards to, but I find the concept of a third class of workers provides for the opportunity for more exploitation than even under our current defunct system.

[Power_serj]

Yeah because the U.S. jail system really needs more inmates. Great idea.

You do realize that if Americans are taking American jobs then they will be paying payroll taxes, income tax, and since they're spending their money in the United States, they'd be paying more sales tax than the illegals (who usually ship their money back to their homeland)?

Also, Americans getting these jobs means that the money is going to be spent here in the US, keep the cash flow and American money in America, helping the economy. When illegals have these jobs, they evade taxes and American dollars go overseas, to NO benefit of the United States.

The argument of not arresting people who are breaking the law, and ruining our country because our jail system is overloaded, is pure idiotic. :bash:

Build illegal immigrant detention centers, problem solved. If they're found to be illegal, try to find relatives overseas and put them with the relatives, if not, put them in foster care. Two years in an overcrowded detention center, I don't see who would want to come back.

[seraosha]

Freaking detention centers? To hold potentially millions?

And these peoples most common crime is picking lettuce or working on a construction site?
:roll:

I lived in Cali, I'm currently in Texas, and I see the illegal immigrant problem every day, and it's just election year BS and posturing by those that hide their racism behind the issue. These folks are working their asses off at crappy jobs gringos don't want and trying to raise a family often as not, without any net. They want their slice of the American pie, and are working for it. Which is more than I can say about our current High School Grads and their sense of entitlement.

You want to change the immigration issue? Go work in a field for 16 hours, take their job away.

[el borracho]

You do realize that if Americans are taking American jobs then they will be paying payroll taxes, income tax, and since they're spending their money in the United States, they'd be paying more sales tax than the illegals (who usually ship their money back to their homeland)?

How much do you think an illegal making slave wages and dealing with the cost of living in the US can afford to send back?


When illegals have these jobs, they evade taxes and American dollars go overseas, to NO benefit of the United States.

Who gave them jobs in the first place? If law enforcement put the heat on the companies and those that handle the hiring, illegals wouldn't be able to find work. I saw a news special a couple of weeks ago about how many migrant workers (both documented and illegal) are spreading the word back home that given the current economic situation, coming to the US wasn't such a great idea after all. Regardless, if there were tougher polices on the companies that hire them the labor pool would dry up. Those thinking of jumping the border would realize that just because they made it across doesn't mean a job is waiting for them.

[Connaught Ranger]

These are criminals,why shouldn't they be jailed?If an American were to commit one of these offenses they would be jailed as well.

Hopefully the American owners and exploiters of these people get jail time as well, they are the real criminals here.(Somehow I doubt that will happen:roll:).

Why put the migrant workers in jails, that are already overcrowded, and have to have the kids taken into social service custody?

Connaught Ranger

[Connaught Ranger]

You do realize that if Americans are taking American jobs then they will be paying payroll taxes, income tax, and since they're spending their money in the United States, they'd be paying more sales tax than the illegals (who usually ship their money back to their homeland)?

Also, Americans getting these jobs means that the money is going to be spent here in the US, keep the cash flow and American money in America, helping the economy. When illegals have these jobs, they evade taxes and American dollars go overseas, to NO benefit of the United States.

The argument of not arresting people who are breaking the law, and ruining our country because our jail system is overloaded, is pure idiotic. :bash:

Build illegal immigrant detention centers*, problem solved. If they're found to be illegal, try to find relatives overseas and put them with the relatives, if not, put them in foster care. Two years in an overcrowded detention center, I don't see who would want to come back.

* Smacks of a Fascist mentality, if you are going to do that, do you plan a check on all people in the USA to verify that they are legal, or will you turn a blind eye to the Canadians, British, Irish, Polish, Romanians, Italians Chinese etc...etc.. or just target the Hispanic race (for example) because they are easier to find??

Connaught Ranger:)

PS Not so long back your ancestors would have fitted the definition of "migrant workers";) unless you are a native American Indian.

[Pigdog]

Freaking detention centers? To hold potentially millions?

And these peoples most common crime is picking lettuce or working on a construction site?
:roll:

I lived in Cali, I'm currently in Texas, and I see the illegal immigrant problem every day, and it's just election year BS and posturing by those that hide their racism behind the issue. These folks are working their asses off at crappy jobs gringos don't want and trying to raise a family often as not, without any net. They want their slice of the American pie, and are working for it. Which is more than I can say about our current High School Grads and their sense of entitlement.

You want to change the immigration issue? Go work in a field for 16 hours, take their job away.

Yeah well many of us "gringos" have had to work multiple crappy jobs at some point in our lives to make ends meet, so let's not pretend that 'hard-working' is a trait unique to illegal immigrants. The difference is employers can't exploit Americans to the same extent. If they can't get rich off the back of citizens, they'll just hire illegals since they have more limited options.

As for sense of entitlement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBONmdeRvpM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO3MOVm3MkM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74QRlnNXD1c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UidZjiEzYY

I guess this is what becomes of the poor, humble immigrants 'just seeking the American Dream', as their numbers grow and they learn that they've got nothing to fear. I'm sure they're very grateful for our tolerance.

Needless to say I'm about all out of sympathy. If that makes me a "racist", so be it.

[Pigdog]

How much do you think an illegal making slave wages and dealing with the cost of living in the US can afford to send back?

Evidently enough to make remittances one of Mexico's largest sources of income. Just ask Vicente Fox.

[Connaught Ranger]

Yeah well many of us "gringos" have had to work multiple crappy jobs at some point in our lives to make ends meet, so let's not pretend that 'hard-working' is a trait unique to illegal immigrants. The difference is employers can't exploit Americans to the same extent. If they can't get rich off the back of citizens, they'll just hire illegals since they have more limited options.

As for sense of entitlement:

I guess this is what becomes of the poor, humble immigrants 'just seeking the American Dream', as their numbers grow and they learn that they've got nothing to fear. I'm sure they're very grateful for our tolerance.

Needless to say I'm about all out of sympathy. If that makes me a "racist", so be it.

Everybody is allowed to have an opinion, you and yours were lucky enough to have settled in America and established a way of life, now the decedents of the early immigrants want to block anybody else following in their path and doing what they do.

Recently in Ireland I heard there was a group pushing the Irish Government to demand that the US Government treat illegal Irish immigrants as being different from other so called "ethnic" groups, (many of whom have a closer connection to the Americas than the blow ins from Europe over the centuries,) their reasoning is the close connection to America via members of the Military, Police, Fire service etc..etc...

Why the Irish percieve they have more rights in the USA than others is beyond me, after all are not all men free and equal?

America is reaping what it has sowed, with regard this problem and posting selected You-Tube clips to back up your points is a bit pathetic.

Whether or not you want to accept it in the next 50 to 100 years the Hispanic population will be one of the biggest in continental USA and there is no way to stop it.

Connaught Stranger.:)

[ren0312]

http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/409192893/m/6270076941001/p/2

[Connaught Ranger]

http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/409192893/m/6270076941001/p/2


AND ?????

the reason for linking to another forum where there are a load of people giving their opinions IS??

Connaught Ranger:)

[Marshall_Nord]

And these peoples most common crime is picking lettuce or working on a construction site?

Don’t forget burdening the social service systems, adding costs to our school systems, using the local healthcare system at my expense, creating a market for identity theft, etc., etc.


those that hide their racism behind the issue. These folks are working their asses off at crappy jobs gringos don't want and trying to raise a family often as not, without any net.

Their racism?

[dava]

Who gave them jobs in the first place? If law enforcement put the heat on the companies and those that handle the hiring, illegals wouldn't be able to find work.

So business owners who employ illegals dont face any prosecution in the USA?
Sounds not so logical, here in Europe (or at least Belgium), the employer gets the blame, not the illegal. Business owners employing illegals can get very hefty fines.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Maybe the Iowans did apply for the job, but the illegal workers got the job because they can be paid substandard wages. Also, these illegals should be required sent to jail and required to pay everything from tax evasion.Yeah that sounds more like it serj I take on a few migrant workers every year and I here all sorts of stories like 18 hour shifts 6 days a week, getting charged to use the factory canteen to eat your own food even if it was sandwiches.

[Shadowstorm]

Freaking detention centers? To hold potentially millions?

And these peoples most common crime is picking lettuce or working on a construction site?
:roll:

I lived in Cali, I'm currently in Texas, and I see the illegal immigrant problem every day, and it's just election year BS and posturing by those that hide their racism behind the issue. These folks are working their asses off at crappy jobs gringos don't want and trying to raise a family often as not, without any net. They want their slice of the American pie, and are working for it. Which is more than I can say about our current High School Grads and their sense of entitlement.

You want to change the immigration issue? Go work in a field for 16 hours, take their job away.
I agree with there. In Omaha were I live, we have a lot of packing houses were a lot illegal immigrants work and pays good money like $8-$12 or more which job you want. But I had people tell me that's a easy and they apply for the job, but a few days later they quit, because it's hard work.

[Ordie]

Quote:
those that hide their racism behind the issue. These folks are working their asses off at crappy jobs gringos don't want and trying to raise a family often as not, without any net.
Their racism?

"Gringo" is an outdated terminology in Mexican popular language. It's mostly used by Americans now.


Don’t forget burdening the social service systems, adding costs to our school systems, using the local healthcare system at my expense, creating a market for identity theft, etc., etc

Myth:
Undocumeted workers pay more taxes than what they recieve in government services.


So business owners who employ illegals dont face any prosecution in the USA?
Sounds not so logical, here in Europe (or at least Belgium), the employer gets the blame, not the illegal. Business owners employing illegals can get very hefty fines

US businesses are politically connected through election contributions, lobbying, industry societies etc. Imagine what would happen if Van Hool, a major Belgian exporter of buses, and trucks were to be shutdown because it hired undocumented immigrants, Mr. Van Hool would make a few phone calls here and there to "fix" the problem. Same is true here in the US.


Why the Irish percieve they have more rights in the USA than others is beyond me, after all are not all men free and equal?

The DHS never goes after the European undocumented immigrants. Besides, once they get one, its a question on who will pay for the one-way flight to Shannon. The Irish are politically connected in Boston, New York and San Francisco. My barkeep at "Ireland's 32" pub in San Francisco was a well known fugitive from the Maze Prision (Jimmy Smith). It took the FBI 10 years to track him down.

[Marshall_Nord]

Undocumeted workers pay more taxes than what they recieve in government services.

Please explain. I could call your argument a "myth" as well.

[el borracho]

"Gringo" is an outdated terminology in Mexican popular language. It's mostly used by Americans now.


True, "gabacho" or "guero" is the standard term these days.

[Ordie]

Undocumented immigrants pay:

Sales taxes on goods and services that support local and municipal governments.
Property taxes through rent and housing.
Income taxes that contributes $6-7 Billion annually into Social Security that most are not able to claim.
To me, undocumented immigrants are more patriotic in paying taxes than Americans. At least they are willing to risk deportation to file and pay taxes.

How many industrialist in our country make it a hobby to evade taxes and pay a living wage?



April 16, 2007

Tax Returns Rise for Immigrants in U.S. Illegally

By NINA BERNSTEIN (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/nina_bernstein/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
With the tax deadline approaching, illegal immigrants are sending in federal returns in what appear to be record numbers despite fears heightened by recent immigration (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/i/immigration_and_refugees/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) raids around the country.
The increase in filings comes amid talk of an immigration overhaul, with some proposals introduced in Congress linking amnesty to the payment of taxes. Many illegal immigrants showing up at tax preparation offices around the country say they hope that filing a return will create a paper trail that could lead to citizenship one day.
In Raleigh, N.C., a tax preparer found 350 immigrants waiting outside his office at 7 a.m., including one dragging a suitcase that held $14,000 in cash for back taxes. In Baltimore, a community agency offering free tax help that was deserted the day after 69 people were rounded up in immigration raids elsewhere in the city was crowded again within 24 hours.
And a help center in Queens did record business among illegal immigrants like Dionicio Quinde Lima, who has worked in construction strictly off the books since he arrived from Ecuador three years ago, but was eager to join the fold of United States taxpayers last week.
“I feel it’s my responsibility to pay,” said Mr. Lima, 39, clutching a $202 money order for the Internal Revenue Service (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/i/internal_revenue_service/index.html?inline=nyt-org). “And if it helps me get papers, fine. The most important would be a permit to travel back and forth to see my family.”
Illegal immigrants do not have Social Security numbers, but the Internal Revenue Service allows them to file taxes by assigning applicants individual taxpayer identification numbers. The numbers were introduced in 1996 to encourage noncitizens with United States income, including foreign investors, to file returns. It is generally accepted that most of the 11 million numbers issued since then have gone to illegal immigrants.
The I.R.S., which does not ask about immigration status, is barred from divulging taxpayer information, with very limited exceptions, to other agencies, like the Department of Homeland Security (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/h/homeland_security_department/index.html?inline=nyt-org).
In the 2005 tax year, the last for which such data is available, 1.9 million returns were filed with the primary taxpayer’s using an individual taxpayer number, known as an ITIN, up 30 percent from 2004.
Applications for the numbers spiked last year, with 1.5 million new ITINs issued through the beginning of November, more than any full year since the program started.
Nancy Mathis, a spokeswoman for the I.R.S., said the agency did not know the reason for the increase, but added, “It is likely due to more effective outreach by community organizations and proposed legislation last year linking payment of taxes to eventual citizenship.”
In 2005 alone, more than $5 billion in tax liability — the total owed, including money withheld from paychecks during the year — was reported in the 2.9 million returns that listed at least one person with an ITIN, she said. And between 1996 and 2003, such filers reported nearly $50 billion of tax liability.
Organizations pushing for stricter immigration enforcement have criticized the use of the individual numbers by illegal immigrants, saying that allowing them to file returns, pay taxes and receive refund checks legitimizes their illegal presence. But the I.R.S. says it is just doing its job as a tax collector, and is not an immigration enforcement agency.
“Clearly, we maintain a separation between the two systems,” Mark W. Everson, the commissioner of the I.R.S., said recently. “We want your money whether you are here legally or not and whether you earned it legally or not.”
And because most immigration bills make the payment of back taxes a prerequisite for legal status, that message seems to be getting through more clearly than ever.
“Right now there’s quite a stampede going on in many areas, including mine,” said Blaire Borthayre, a consultant in Hispanic marketing based in Raleigh who described early-morning crowds gathering outside Family Tax Service, her husband’s tax preparation business. “It’s word of mouth.”
One client, she said, was a Mexican man who lugged in a suitcase holding $14,000, cash he had set aside to pay his taxes over six years of work as a landscaper. Like many, he had only recently learned that he could file a legitimate tax return, said Ms. Borthayre, who is the author of several books on tax preparation with ITINs.
Like Social Security numbers, individual taxpayer numbers have nine digits, but all begin with a “9.” The appeal of the numbers grew as they were accepted in some places as alternative identification to open a bank account, qualify for credit or even obtain a driver’s license — all uses that the I.R.S. opposed and has tried to curb, Ms. Mathis said.
Since 2003, applications for an ITIN must be accompanied by a tax return, with few exceptions. And to avoid confusion with a Social Security card, the I.R.S. now sends a letter assigning a number, instead of a card.
Those changes did not mollify critics like Mark Krikorian, director of the Center for Immigration Studies, which opposes bills that would let some longtime illegal residents achieve legal status.
“First of all, almost all the people filing tax returns are doing it because they’re going to get tax refunds,” Mr. Krikorian said. “It’s a bad thing, because they’re not obeying the law — they’re deciding which laws they prefer to obey. If they were interested in demonstrating their law-abiding nature, they would pack up and go home.”
At a senior center in Jackson Heights, Queens, where Mr. Lima waited with an envelope decorated with an American flag and the label “Important Tax Records,” organizers of the free tax-help program said that ITIN refunds were much less common there than tax bills.
Of 1,700 ITIN returns prepared there between mid-January and early April, two-thirds of the filers owed money, said P. J. Kim, director of income policy at Food Change, a nonprofit agency in New York City that uses laptops and software lent by the I.R.S. The average income was $9,400 a year, the average tax bill was $623 and the highest was $7,275.
Mr. Lima said that he had been a police officer for 16 years in Ecuador, before the country’s economic crisis left him unable to support his wife and three daughters on his wages. He sent them about half the $12,000 he made last year, he said. “I’m not afraid,” he added. “I really don’t feel I’m doing anything wrong. I’m working and I’m paying taxes.”
Others are afraid, but file anyway, said Lourdes Montes-Greenan, Latino services manager for the nonprofit East Harbor Community Development Corporation in Baltimore, where a day of immigration raids around that city disrupted tax preparation, even though the group’s office was not raided.
“The day after the raid, nobody showed up in the office,” Ms. Montes-Greenan said. “People were scared.” Yet by the end of the week, she added, the flow of taxpayers was as high as ever.
“They say they want to be compliant,” she said. “In case immigration reform comes, they want to be ready.”
Another reason for a surge in ITIN filers, Ms. Borthayre suggested, is that tax preparation chains like Liberty Tax Service and H & R Block are waking up to the market, and are learning to navigate the complications. Under tax treaties with Mexico and Canada, for example, ITIN filers can even claim deductions for dependents who live in those countries, reducing their taxable gross income by about $3,300 per child, she said. But children must have their own ITINs to be listed, fueling demand that has pushed the price per application as high as $200 at some unscrupulous mom-and-pop operations.
“People are desperate,” she said. “They believe immigration reform is either here or on its way.”
In the Queens center, Ana Andrade, 32, from Mexico, had other incentives. She presented a W-2 form that showed withholding of more than $3,000 from the $24,000 she had earned as a cook in a Manhattan restaurant, at $10 an hour. Like more than seven million such W-2 forms nationwide, hers bore a false Social Security number.
No problem, the senior tax specialist explained. Her return would be filed under her ITIN, with the problematic W-2 form, and the I.R.S. would simply credit her wages to her ITIN. The result: a $2,000 refund, based mainly on child credits for her two American-born children, 9 and 10.
Ms. Mathis of the Internal Revenue Service said that if the name on the W-2 matched the name on the ITIN, the return would be processed.
At the next table, Elsa Forero, 35, from Colombia, knew no refund was possible. She watched anxiously as a tax specialist and a volunteer parsed her cash wages as a baby sitter and her deductions for two children, including a 4-year-old son born in New York. The bottom line: She had to pay the federal government $579, but could expect a state tax credit for $115.
“I want to pay taxes because I live in this country and I like to follow the rules,” she said.
And how would she pay?
“Little by little,” she said.


Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/16/nyregion/16immig.html?_r=2&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print

[Shadowstorm]

Just look at Wesley Snipes, Willie Nelson and the others who avoided paying taxes, but get a slap on the hand while illegal immigrants do pay taxes get sent back.

[ronnieraygun]

For follow up:


UPDATE: 93 Now Face Criminal Charges in Raid


By Nick Weig


Story Created: May 12, 2008
Story Updated: May 14, 2008

POSTVILLE / WATERLOO - Officials call Monday's immigration raid in Postville the "largest raid of it's kind in Iowa history" and "the largest single site raid nationwide". Officials say 390 people total were arrested in that raid.

Intake court and initial appearances, as well as criminal court are now underway at the National Cattle Congress grounds in Waterloo.

On Tuesday, officials had charged 20 detainees with criminal charges. The U.S. Attorney's Office worked through the night and now an additional 73 people face criminal charges including aggravated identity theft and false use of social security numbers. That number is expected to rise throughout the day Wednesday.

The immigration officials tell TV9 they do not expect to house the men at the National Cattle Congress after Thursday. They have been staying here since Monday night. After Thursday, the men will be going to other detention facilities around the area.

A number of judges and court personnel have been temporarily relocated to Waterloo to help start the legal process. Lawyers have been assigned to those who are facing criminal charges. A temporary court room has been set up in the Cattle Congress building, and two more are set up in trailors on the site.

On Tuesday , the first round of detainees were brought in front of the judge to make sure all of the charges filed are proper and all of the paperwork is filed correctly. The individuals facing charges were shackled and handcuffed. Within a week, they will all have another hearing during which the government will explain how it plans to proceed. Monday night was difficult for many of the detainees, but federal agents say they did their best to treat everyone fairly.

Those not facing criminal charges are being held under administrative arrest for violating immigration rules. There will be no administrative proceedings in Waterloo. Those under administrative arrest will be moved to another I.C.E. facility, not necessarily in Iowa.

Those detained include 315 men, who are currently held in Waterloo at the National Cattle Congress, and 76 women who are being held at the Hardin County jail. Check out the behind the scenes video, at left, to see footage of the living conditions, intake area and courtroom.

Officials say that those detained are from four countries: Guatemala, Mexico, Israel and Ukraine.

Fifty-six of those arrested were released on humanitarian grounds. Most of those were released for childcare reasons, with a few being released for medical reasons.

Officials say they had 697 warrants, and with only 390 arrests, that leaves over 300 people unaccounted for. They say they are not going door-to-door looking for those people.

On Tuesday, officials made no comment about legal action against managers or owners of the plant. They also did not comment on plans for other raids in this area.

There were two injuries reported during the raid. One man hurt his leg while fleeing from officials. He was treated and is still in custody. An agent also hurt his leg in a stairwell.

St. Bridget's Catholic Church opened facilities for families affected. And there is a hotline for families involved: 866-341-3858.

On Monday, agents with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement issued criminal search warrants for aggravated identify theft and fraudulent Social Security numbers. Agency spokesman Tim Counts said that civil search warrants also were issued for illegal immigrants.

In a statement released on Monday, Governor Culver said, "I believe it is important that we crack down on illegal immigration. Illegal means illegal. Not just those who cross the border, but also those who are responsible for helping make it happen -- traffickers, identity thieves, those who knowingly hire illegal immigrants, and anyone who has taken advantage of employees or turned a blind eye." Read the full release from the Governor's office by clicking on the link in "related content" on this page.

Immigration activists said they feared the National Cattle Congress fairgrounds in Waterloo is being prepared as a detention center. Giertz tells TV9 that I.C.E. officials said that facility will be used for processing, not long-term detention. In December of 2006, those apprehended in a raid at Swift & Co. meatpacking plant in Marshalltown were taken by federal agents to the Camp Dodge military base in Johnston.

Agriprocessors is the world's largest kosher meatpacking plant. They employ between 500 and 999 people, according to Iowa Workforce Development. Agriprocessors is the largest employer in Allamakee County.

[Ordie]

Being a Kosher meat plant it explains the Israeli and Ukrainian being caught.

I wonder if there are enough people in Iowa for jury duty to be involved in these cases.

[seraosha]

Yes, racism is at the core of the anti-immigrant movement. Sure, Homeland Security is an issue, as well as undocumented workers supposedly taking away jobs from US Citizens, but let's cut to the chase and quit being disingenuous.

So how many managers and owners are facing criminal charges?

[Ordie]

Here is a list of Agriprocessors Inc political contributions:

The Lt. Governor of Iowa recived $10,000 in campaign contributions from Agriprocessors.

RUBASHKIN, ABRAHAM A POSTVILLE,IA 52162
8/30/04$2,000Grassley, Chuck (R)

RUBASHKIN, BASYA C POSTVILLE,IA 52162 AGRIPROCESSORS
VICE-PRESIDENT12/12/04$2,000 Harris, Katherine (R)

RUBASHKIN, BASYA C
POSTVILLE,IA 52162 AGRIPROCESSORS/ VICE-PRESIDENT12/12/04$2,000Harris, Katherine (R)

RUBASHKIN, BASYA CHANA
POSTVILLE,IA 52162AGRIPROCESSORS3/24/04 $2,000Specter, Arlen (R)

RUBASHKIN, BASYA CHANA POSTVILLE,IA 52162 AGRIPROCESSORS 3/24/04 $2,000Specter, Arlen (R)

RUBASHKIN, LEAH POSTVILLE,IA 52162 8/26/04 $2,000 Grassley, Chuck (R)

RUBASHKIN, LEAH POSTVILLE,IA 52162 HOMEMAKER3/24/04 $2,000 Specter, Arlen (R)

RUBASHKIN, LEAH POSTVILLE,IA 52162 HOMEMAKER3/24/04 $2,000 Specter, Arlen (R)

RUBASHKIN, LEAH POSTVILLE,IA 52162AGRI PROCESSORS/ HOMEMAKER10/25/04 $1,000 Thompson, Stan (R)

RUBASHKIN, LEAH POSTVILLE,IA 52162 AGRI PROCESSORS/
HOMEMAKER10/25/04$1,000Thompson, Stan (R)

RUBASHKIN, LEAH POSTVILLE,IA 52162 AGRI PROCESSORS/ HOMEMAKER6/30/04$1,000 Thompson, Stan (R)

RUBASHKIN, LEAH POSTVILLE,IA 52162 HOMEMAKER11/6/00 $1,000Dear, Noach (R)

RUBASHKIN, LEAH POSTVILLE,IA 52162 AGRIPROCESSORS/BEEF PACKING 4/5/01$250Thompson, Stan (R)

RUBASHKIN, LEAH POSTVILLE,IA 52162 AGRIPROCESSORS/BEEF PACKING 11/30/01$250 Thompson, Stan (R)

RUBASHKIN, RYFKA POSTVILLE,IA 52162 8/30/04$2,000 Grassley, Chuck (R)

RUBASHKIN, SHALOM POSTVILLE,IA 52162 8/23/00$1,800 Republican Party of Iowa (R)

RUBASHKIN, SHOLOM POSTVILLE,IA 52162 SELF/C.E.O.10/22/04 $4,000 Republican Party of Iowa (R)

RUBASHKIN, SHOLOM POSTVILLE,IA 52162 8/26/04 $2,000Latham, Tom (R)

RUBASHKIN, SHOLOM POSTVILLE,IA 52162 AGRIPROCESSORS/BEEF PACKING 3/11/04 $2,000 Thompson, Stan (R)

RUBASHKIN, SHOLOM POSTVILLE,IA 52162A GRIPROCESSORS INC/PRESIDENT6/9/06 $1,500 Dix, Bill (R)

RUBASHKIN, SHOLOM POSTVILLE,IA 52162AGRI MEAT PROCESSORS11/6/00 $1,000 Dear, Noach (R)

RUBASHKIN, SHOLOM POSTVILLE,IA 52162SELF/CEO5/19/03 $1,000 Republican Party of Iowa (R)

RUBASHKIN, SHOLOM POSTVILLE,IA 52162 5/9/02$750 Republican Party of Iowa (R)

RUBASHKIN, SHOLOM POSTVILLE,IA 52162 AGRIPROCESSORS/BEEF PACKING 3/11/04$500 Thompson, Stan (R)

RUBASHKIN, SHOLOM POSTVILLE,IA 52162 AGRIPROCESSORS PACKING11/30/01$250Thompson, Stan (R)

RUBASHKIN, SHOLOM POSTVILLE,IA 52162 AGRIPROCESSORS/ BEEF PACKING4/5/01$250 Thompson, Stan (R)

RUBASHKIN, SHOLOM M POSTVILLE,IA 52162 AGRIPROCESSORS3/24/04 $2,000Specter, Arlen (R)

RUBASHKIN, SHOLOM M POSTVILLE,IA 52152 AGRIPROCESSORS3/24/04 $2,000Specter, Arlen (R)

RUBASHKIN, SHOLOM M POSTVILLE,IA 52162 8/26/04$2,000 Grassley, Chuck (R)

RUBASHKIN, SHOLOM M POSTVILLE,IA 52162 AGRIPROCESSORS INC./AG BUSINESS7/22/02$1,000 Nussle, Jim (R)

RUBASHKIN, SHOLOM M POSTVILLE,IA 52162 AGRIPROCESSORS INC10/26/00 $1,000 Nussle, Jim (R)

RUBASHKIN, SHOLOM M POSTVILLE,IA 52162 AGRIPROCESSORS INC./AG BUSINESS1/23/02$500Nussle, Jim (R)

RUBASHKIN, SHOLOM M MR POSTVILLE,IA 52162 AGRIPROCESSORS INC./VICE PRESIDENT1/30/04$1,500 National Republican Congressional Cmte (R)

RUBASHKIN, SHOLOM M MR POSTVILLE,IA 52162 AGRIPROCESSORS INC./ VICE PRESIDENT4/3/03 $500National Republican Congressional Cmte (R)

RUBASHKIN, TZVI H POSTVILLE,IA 52162 AGRIPROCESSORS/ VICE-PRESIDENT12/12/04$2,000Harris, Katherine (R)

RUBASHKIN, TZVI H POSTVILLE,IA 52162 AGRIPROCESSORS/VICE-PRESIDENT12/12/04 $2,000 Harris, Katherine (R)

RUBASHKIN, TZVI HIRSCH POSTVILLE,IA 52162AGRIPROCESSORS3/24/04$2,000Specter, Arlen (R)


ABRAHAMS, CHALM (AGRIPROCESSORS), (Zip code: 52162) $2000 to GRASSLEY COMMITTEE on 08/11/04

BENSASSON, YOMTOV (AGRIPROCESSORS), (Zip code: 52162) $1000 to GRASSLEY COMMITTEE on 08/17/04

GOURARIE, JOSEPH (AGRIPROCESSORS INC), (Zip code: 52162) $2000 to GRASSLEY COMMITTEE on 08/17/04

MELTZER, MITCHEL R (AGRIPROCESSORS INC), (Zip code: 52162) $1000 to GRASSLEY COMMITTEE on 08/18/04

RUBASHKIN, SHOLOM M (AGRIPROCESSORS), (Zip code: 52162) $2000 to CITIZENS FOR ARLEN SPECTER on 03/24/04

RUBASHKIN, BASYA CHANA (AGRIPROCESSORS), (Zip code: 52162) $2000 to CITIZENS FOR ARLEN SPECTER on 03/24/04

RUBASHKIN, TZVI HIRSCH (AGRIPROCESSORS), (Zip code: 52162) $2000 to CITIZENS FOR ARLEN SPECTER on 03/24/04

Rubashkin, Sholom (AgriProcessors/Beef Packing), (Zip code: 52162) $2000 to THOMPSON FOR CONGRESS INC on 03/11/04

Rubashkin, Sholom (AgriProcessors/Beef Packing), (Zip code: 52162) $500 to THOMPSON FOR CONGRESS INC on 03/11/04

Rubashkin, Leah (Agri Processors/Homemaker), (Zip code: 52162) $1000 to THOMPSON FOR CONGRESS INC on 06/30/04

[ronaldo413]

Yeah because the U.S. jail system really needs more inmates. Great idea.
law is the law

[Marshall_Nord]

Undocumeted workers pay more taxes than what they recieve in government services.

^ This is your argument, supported by this:







Undocumented immigrants pay:

Sales taxes on goods and services that support local and municipal governments.
Property taxes through rent and housing.
Income taxes that contributes $6-7 Billion annually into Social Security that most are not able to claim.


The first two,


Sales taxes on goods and services that support local and municipal governments.
Property taxes through rent and housing.
I pay the same. Government services received by illegal is a GAIN.

The last,


Income taxes that contributes $6-7 Billion annually into Social Security that most are not able to claim.
is somewhat speculative. The Social Security Tax is based on employee and matching employer contributions. If someone, Illegal or Legal, is working for cash; there isn’t any payment into the Social Security system. If the illegal receives government services, they have just collected another GAIN.

If the employer knows the employee is illegal, they may withdraw the SS tax and just keep it. Who is going to check this out? The illegal looses the tax but may regain the loss through government services. The loss in SS tax has to be compared to received government services. This may result in a loss or gain.

If the illegal is having the SS tax withdrawn and placed into the fund, then they are equivalent to me in contributions. When it comes time for either of us to claim, 20-30 years hence, the laws might change to allow the former illegal to collect along with myself or the nation may go the way of the Soviet Union and we both loose. If they are able to collect, gain/loss is ZERO relative to me. If they can’t collect, it’s a LOSS for them which has to be compared against government services rendered over the contribution time.

Any unassimilated group of people is an added expense on local and municipal governments. My tax money has to fund translators and other “special assistance” programs to aid communication and understanding. Bottom line, all new immigrants need to be assimilated into the American nation through a common language and primary culture. My ancestors had to do this, why is this a problem now? Secondary languages and sub-cultures need to take a back seat to this assimilation.

On a side note, If more of the tax burden was placed on sales and not income/property taxes, the undocumented economy would contribute more to the tax base.

[Connaught Ranger]

law is the law

Yes, and it has to be enforced against ALL who break it not just the illegal Aliens, otherwise the LAW is an ASS.

Connaught Ranger.:)

[ronnieraygun]

Here is a list of Agriprocessors Inc political contributions:


DAMN - are all of those people from the Lubavitcher sect?

[Ordie]

My tax money has to fund translators and other “special assistance” programs to aid communication and understanding.

I think all deaf people should be assimilated to learn how to speak. I'm tired of my tax money paying for sign-language translators.p-)

[Firetxmi]

I think all deaf people should be assimilated to learn how to speak. I'm tired of my tax money paying for sign-language translators.

I agree. Send 'em back where they came from.

[Marshall_Nord]

I think all deaf people should be assimilated to learn how to speak. I'm tired of my tax money paying for sign-language translators.p-)

They don't have a choice!:bash:

[Ordie]

Same principle under the 14th Amendment, Civil Rights Acts and the ADA.

Assimilation and acculturation happens naturally for economic reasons. Many immigrants view English as a key to prosperity and opportunities. Many take the time to teach themselves through ESL classes, DVD's or "Leapfrog" devices. This process happens much quicker with immigrant children through language immersion at school and the ability to assist thier families in all matters that involves English.

Don't expect things happening overnight. It takes about a generation for the acculturation and assimilation process to work. In some case the reverse is true. Otherwise pizza, sushi, chowmein, and tacos wouldn't have been America's favorite foods.

Even Henry Kissenger, Arnold Schwarzennegger haven't mastered the English or fully assimilated.

[Pigdog]

[quote=Connaught Ranger;3244360]Everybody is allowed to have an opinion, you and yours were lucky enough to have settled in America and established a way of life, now the decedents of the early immigrants want to block anybody else following in their path and doing what they do.

Oh I see - cultural preservation is wrong, and we should sacrifice our way of life to accommodate people who have no loyalty to this country, much less respect.

They really should follow in the footsteps of the early immigrants and assimilate into the culture of an established nation. It would likely go a much longer way to gaining acceptance than preaching on about "reconquista", "stolen land", and all the other bull**** they try to use as justification for them bypassing laws.


Recently in Ireland I heard there was a group pushing the Irish Government to demand that the US Government treat illegal Irish immigrants as being different from other so called "ethnic" groups, (many of whom have a closer connection to the Americas than the blow ins from Europe over the centuries,) their reasoning is the close connection to America via members of the Military, Police, Fire service etc..etc...

Why the Irish percieve they have more rights in the USA than others is beyond me, after all are not all men free and equal?Illegal Irish have no more rights here than any other illegal as far as I'm concerned.


America is reaping what it has sowed, with regard this problem and posting selected You-Tube clips to back up your points is a bit pathetic.You're right, we're getting what we deserve for just accepting it. The YouTube clips were to show what happens when you fail to expect or demand anything from the people you let in, and there are plenty more examples to be found.


Whether or not you want to accept it in the next 50 to 100 years the Hispanic population will be one of the biggest in continental USA and there is no way to stop it.A person's ethnicity isn't the issue in case you haven't caught on yet. I've got Hispanic family members - when they immigrated legally they had enough gratitude and respect to adopt our culture and become Americans instead of shoving theirs down our throat, telling us to "deal with it."

[Ordie]

[quote]
Illegal Irish have no more rights here than any other illegal as far as I'm concerned."

I'd bet if there was an ICE raid at an Irish Pub in New York or Boston, the every politician, archbishop, police and fire unions will be literally knocking down Michael Chertoff door within minutes.

And heaven forbid if the undocumented immigrants are Northern Irish Catholics. It opens a whole can of worms for the State Department.

It will give the "Southies" in Boston an excuse to go postal.

[Gfunk]

"Fifty-six of those arrested have been released on humanitarian grounds; many of them have to take care of children."

What kind of message does that send? Come to America illegally, have a kid, and you get a get out of jail free card?

[Marshall_Nord]

Here’s another example of how employers are taking advantage of the illegal, undocumented work force.

A factory in my town employs many people recently arrived from south of the border. A co-worker’s wife works in this companies human resource department. An applicant will present their two forms of ID, which has been required by US law since the early 1990’s. One will be a SSN that proved to be invalid. They are told this and they leave. They come back a few days later, with a NEW SSN which is valid and they are hired.

This same employer tells the “south of the border” arrivals to CASH their payroll checks at a certain bank in town. Another co-worker has a girlfriend who is a teller at this bank. The bank’s policy is no payroll checks cashed without an account. For some reason, these SoB arrivals are not required to have an account, and they are allowed to cash multiple payroll checks in different names. Some can’t even speak English. One of her co-workers has a boyfriend who openly brags about going down South and bringing more workers to our town.

My suspicion is that this company has a working agreement with the bank to pay illegal, undocumented workers with a separate account. This way the employer, who knows the status of some of these individuals, can avoid paying SS tax, Medicare tax, Unemployment, Workman’s Compensation, etc. Even though they pay these ‘”questionable” employees the same as a citizen, they are paying less in required payroll taxes; Increasing profits and having an obedient workforce that does not question company conditions.

This company and bank are criminals, committing state and federal crimes. Who knows, maybe the mentioned boyfriend gets a kickback for every new worker that gets employed by said company?

[Ordie]

"Fifty-six of those arrested have been released on humanitarian grounds; many of them have to take care of children."

Keeping families together is a sensible policy.

[AGE-Ranger]

Keeping families together is a sensible policy.

That doesn't answer his question.


Even Henry Kissenger, Arnold Schwarzennegger haven't mastered the English or fully assimilated.

Oh common, both are icons of the United States.

[Ordie]

Here’s another example of how employers are taking advantage of the illegal, undocumented work force.

A factory in my town employs many people recently arrived from south of the border. A co-worker’s wife works in this companies human resource department. An applicant will present their two forms of ID, which has been required by US law since the early 1990’s. One will be a SSN that proved to be invalid. They are told this and they leave. They come back a few days later, with a NEW SSN which is valid and they are hired.

This same employer tells the “south of the border” arrivals to CASH their payroll checks at a certain bank in town. Another co-worker has a girlfriend who is a teller at this bank. The bank’s policy is no payroll checks cashed without an account. For some reason, these SoB arrivals are not required to have an account, and they are allowed to cash multiple payroll checks in different names. Some can’t even speak English. One of her co-workers has a boyfriend who openly brags about going down South and bringing more workers to our town.

My suspicion is that this company has a working agreement with the bank to pay illegal, undocumented workers with a separate account. This way the employer, who knows the status of some of these individuals, can avoid paying SS tax, Medicare tax, Unemployment, Workman’s Compensation, etc. Even though they pay these ‘”questionable” employees the same as a citizen, they are paying less in required payroll taxes; Increasing profits and having an obedient workforce that does not question company conditions.

This company and bank are criminals, committing state and federal crimes. Who knows, maybe the mentioned boyfriend gets a kickback for every new worker that gets employed by said company?

Why do you assume everyone from "South of the Border" are undocumented immigrants?

According to the laws, the employer is going by the books. The employer asked for SSN, they confirmed it, hired. If they go further in questioning the status they can run afoul with the Civil Rights Act.

It's up to the bank to decide which checks are cashed or not cashed. The employer can recommend locations for banking transactions. There are no laws that preclude anyone from having a bank account. Anyone can cash multiple checks as long as there's an endorsement signiture in the back of the check.

I highly doubt the employer is avoiding all the required taxes on the checks. They must have all of the documentation for the IRS and the pay stubs must show the deductions.

Friends and family referrals are common in many businesses. I see nothing wrong.

[Gfunk]

Keeping families together is a sensible policy.

It should not be the concern of the American government what happens to a family of foreigners. Of course, thanks to our ****ed up constitution, a lot of these families probably have had anchor babies already so that makes the situation even worse.

[Ordie]

I would say it should not be the concern of the American government what happens to a family of foreigners, but since our constitution is ****ed up, a lot of these families probably have had anchor babies. http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif


We prefer to be called US Citizens

[seraosha]

It should not be the concern of the American government what happens to a family of foreigners. Of course, thanks to our ****ed up constitution, a lot of these families probably have had anchor babies already so that makes the situation even worse.

****ed up constitution?

Quite a few of us on these boards swore an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies...foreign and domestic.
So why don't you count to 10, take a few deep breaths and STFU?

[SoCalEMT]

"Anchor babies"
"F@#ked up Constitution"

Just out of curiosity, do you speak like this to other human beings, or do you simply type dehumanizing racist dribble from behind the anonymity of a keyboard?

Have da Bestest Day Evah,
SoCalEMT

[Gfunk]

****ed up constitution?

Quite a few of us on these boards swore an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies...foreign and domestic.
So why don't you count to 10, take a few deep breaths and STFU?

Good for you. God bless all of you who have taken that oath to defend the constitution. But just because you did doesn't mean you love it more than I do or have more of a right to criticize it than I do.

We hand out our American nationality to people like it means nothing. All it takes to become an American national is be born here. BORN here. That's it. You don't even have to be born of American parents, let alone a single American parent. Sorry, but regardless of your oath, that's ****ED up. A serious flaw in our constitution that we need to revisit.

[Gfunk]

"Anchor babies"
"F@#ked up Constitution"

Just out of curiosity, do you speak like this to other human beings, or do you simply type dehumanizing racist dribble from behind the anonymity of a keyboard?

Have da Bestest Day Evah,
SoCalEMT

This has nothing to do with race. For you even to go there just shows your ignorance. Skin tone is irrelevant. One nation, one people.

[SoCalEMT]

This has nothing to do with race. For you even to go there just shows your ignorance. Race / skin tone is irrelevant. One nation, one people.

Ein Reich, Ein Volk

Dig it, Baby, dig it.

Please, Continue Having Da Bestest Day Evah,
SoCalEMT

P.S. I would like to apologise to the rest of MP.Net for this invocation of Godwin's Law.:oops:

[Power_serj]

How much do you think an illegal making slave wages and dealing with the cost of living in the US can afford to send back?



Who gave them jobs in the first place? If law enforcement put the heat on the companies and those that handle the hiring, illegals wouldn't be able to find work. I saw a news special a couple of weeks ago about how many migrant workers (both documented and illegal) are spreading the word back home that given the current economic situation, coming to the US wasn't such a great idea after all. Regardless, if there were tougher polices on the companies that hire them the labor pool would dry up. Those thinking of jumping the border would realize that just because they made it across doesn't mean a job is waiting for them.

Exactly. The best way to get rid of illegal aliens is to punish the employers: no work, no reason to come here illegaly. However, it's not realisitic, because there is too much corporate influence in our government.

[Power_serj]

Freaking detention centers? To hold potentially millions?

And these peoples most common crime is picking lettuce or working on a construction site?
:roll:

Actually, their crime is being here in the first place, that's why they're called "illegal immigrants." Also, don't forget their tax evasion as well.

I lived in Cali, I'm currently in Texas, and I see the illegal immigrant problem every day, and it's just election year BS and posturing by those that hide their racism behind the issue. These folks are working their asses off at crappy jobs gringos don't want and trying to raise a family often as not, without any net. They want their slice of the American pie, and are working for it. Which is more than I can say about our current High School Grads and their sense of entitlement.

So I'm a racist for not wanting illegal aliens here? I've got nothing against immigrants, only illegal aliens who refuse to learn English, disrespect our laws, disrespect us in our own country (calling us gringos), don't pay taxes, and still get free medical care that I'm paying for with my tax dollars.


If these people are really needed so much, and there are jobs that we need filled, we can create a guest worker program to bring them here legally, where they can pay taxes and medical insurance. However, no amnesty to the ones here. Crackdown on companies who hire them, and heavily fine them for each illegal they have so that it's not even worth it to have them in the first place.

[Ordie]

All it takes to become an American national is be born here. BORN here. That's it. You don't even have to be born of American parents, let alone a single American parent. Sorry, but regardless of your oath, that's ****ED up. A serious flaw in our constitution that we need to revisit.

My parents were undocumented immigrants.
I was born, raised and educated in the United States.
In time through hard work my family started a business and grew into a company employing 500 people with over a million is sales.

I could've ran the business, but instead I enlisted in the Navy and served ten years. I was the first in my family to get a college degree and chosen a vocation in public service.

My primary goal in life is to give back to my country what my country has given to my familiy through public service.

I am no less American than the next guy.

Go ahead and badmouth "anchor babies". For one day these Citizens may be the first one to find a cure for cancer, walk on Mars, a brilliant General or even President.

[Shadowstorm]

Ordie, don't even waste your time arguing with people like that.

[seraosha]

Good for you. God bless all of you who have taken that oath to defend the constitution. But just because you did doesn't mean you love it more than I do or have more of a right to criticize it than I do.

We hand out our American nationality to people like it means nothing. All it takes to become an American national is be born here. BORN here. That's it. You don't even have to be born of American parents, let alone a single American parent. Sorry, but regardless of your oath, that's ****ED up. A serious flaw in our constitution that we need to revisit.

So what exactly have you done to earn citizenship, besides being born here?

*edit, and yes, by swearing an oath to defend the constitution DOES mean I love it more, and have more of a right to pass judgment.

[Marshall_Nord]

Why do you assume everyone from "South of the Border" are undocumented immigrants?

I never said Everyone from South of the Border was illegal, but when I see or hear someone who’s origins are SoB acquire more than one SSN and cash their checks without a valid bank account; the chances are they are here illegally. I’ll take those odds any day. If I lived in Chicago land and recent arrivals from Eastern Europe were doing the same, I’m pretty sure they are illegal immigrants as well.


According to the laws, the employer is going by the books. The employer asked for SSN, they confirmed it, hired. If they go further in questioning the status they can run afoul with the Civil Rights Act.

You are correct. So long as the employer has proof of ID, they have done their job. The employer doesn’t have a responsibility to validate the ID presented.


It's up to the bank to decide which checks are cashed or not cashed. The employer can recommend locations for banking transactions. There are no laws that preclude anyone from having a bank account. Anyone can cash multiple checks as long as there's an endorsement signiture in the back of the check.

Again, you are correct. But, as I stated earlier, this particular bank has a policy not to cash payroll checks unless the person has a valid account with the bank. My co-worker’s girlfriend follows policy, but her co-worker “let’s things slide”. To allow one group to circumvent company policy and another not to is discrimination.


I highly doubt the employer is avoiding all the required taxes on the checks. They must have all of the documentation for the IRS and the pay stubs must show the deductions.

Again, re-read my post. I speculate that if the employers knows the person is undocumented why do they have to worry about someone checking? They don’t have to claim wage deductions as an expense if the avoidance payroll tax is more of a benefit. That’s the advantage of hiring a cash employee. A lot of businesses will find loopholes to avoid payroll taxes. I once worked on a government contracting job where some of the employees were “independent” contractors. It was B.S. to have 20 or so single employee businesses working under one contractor, but the general contractor avoided paying all of the payroll taxes associated with us “regular” employees. BTW, none of these guys were illegal; just local white trash looking for a quick buck.


Friends and family referrals are common in many businesses. I see nothing wrong.

Even if they know the law is being broken and it’s a little joke to the perpetrators?

I’m not against immigrants from anywhere, so long as they integrate into society and follow the law. I also don’t believe its my responsibility to provide social services to people after one generation. My main problem is the Federal Government’s lack of direction and enforcement on this issue. I also scorn the businesses that rake in more profits hiring illegal, undocumented workers over one who is documented and valid.

We do have a lot of legal immigrants in our area. They are Hmong refugees. The children of these immigrants, the second generation, can speak fluent English and constantly make honor role in the local school systems. They are employed in a wide range of businesses in the area. As tax-paying, English-speaking, legal immigrants I welcome them as fellow Americans. They have their own local cultural events, but, none of them expect me to learn their language. I don’t ask anymore from other immigrants.