Chavez warns Colombia against U.S. base

[Zoomie]

Chavez tells Colombia no to U.S. base

U.S. reportedly has eyed border area as site of possible military installation
The Associated Press
updated 2:46 a.m. ET, Thurs., May. 15, 2008

CARACAS, Venezuela - President Hugo Chavez on Wednesday warned Colombia not to allow a U.S. military base on its border with Venezuela, saying he would consider such an act an "aggression."
Chavez said he would not permit Colombia's U.S.-backed government to establish an American military base in La Guajira, a region spanning northeastern Colombia and northwestern Venezuela.
The Venezuelan leader said if Colombia allows the base, his government will revive a decades-old territorial conflict and stake a claim to the entire region.
"We will not allow the Colombian government to give La Guajira to the empire," Chavez said, referring to the United States during a speech to a packed auditorium of uniformed soldiers. "Colombia is launching a threat of war at us."
He said Washington's top diplomat in Bogota, U.S. Ambassador William Brownfield, recently suggested that a U.S. military base in Ecuador could be moved to La Guajira.
‘Whatever it takes’
Chavez urged his Colombian counterpart, Alvaro Uribe, to "think it over well" before making such a decision because Venezuela will do "whatever it takes" to ensure that a U.S. military base is not built on the peninsula in the Caribbean Sea.
Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa — a close Chavez ally — has repeatedly said that he will not renew a 10-year lease on the base in the Pacific port of Manta when it expires next year.
Manta is the United States' only military base in South America. Surveillance flights the United States runs from there are responsible for about 60 percent of drug interdiction in the eastern Pacific.
Rocky relations
Diplomatic relations between Caracas and Bogota have been rocky for months. They worsened last week when Colombia unveiled documents allegedly showing that Chavez sought to arm and finance Colombian rebels. Chavez denies the claim.
Colombian officials say they found the documents in laptops recovered after a March 1 cross-border raid in Ecuador that killed rebel leader Raul Reyes and 24 other people.
International police agency Interpol is analyzing the documents and plans to present its findings on Thursday in Bogota.
"The Colombian government will surely announce tomorrow that the documents retrieved from Raul Reyes' computer are authentic and, therefore, Chavez supports terrorism," Chavez said.
Chavez — an outspoken critic of U.S. foreign policy in Latin America — said Washington is using Uribe as pawn in a plan aimed at portraying Venezuela as a backer of terrorism.
Chavez denies supporting the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, saying he only seeks a peaceful end to the neighboring country's decades-long armed conflict.
The European Union joined the United States in listing the FARC — Latin America's largest rebel force with roughly 14,000 fighters — as a terrorist group in 2002, outlawing economic support for the guerrillas.

Source (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24639338/)
How dare Columbia conduct it's own affairs without Chavez's permission! p-)

[Power_serj]

We should put a base there. Good idea Chavez.

[Bitogno]

We should put a base there. Good idea Chavez.
Well he will retaliate by putting a Russian or Chinese base.

[Ghelp]

Well he will retaliate by putting a Russian or Chinese base.

Doubt it.All talk again from Chavez.Yaawn.

[IDF_TANKER]

Well he will retaliate by putting a Russian or Chinese base.
Why would Russian or Chinese want to put a military base in this Venezuela?

[Ghelp]

Why would Russian or Chinese want to put a military base in this Venezuela?

The Chinese have Special Forces to guard Chavez from assasination.The Russians have some investments in Venezuela including a naval grade alluminum plant.But I highly doubt any base.

[Afro-European]

Well he will retaliate by putting a Russian or Chinese base.
Russia and/or China may supply weapons to venezuela but i doubt either of them will accept to get dragged into chavez' mess.He should sort his own sh!t out.

[Snoshi]

And what can Chavez do? Just hes regular macho talk.

[Bitogno]

China could consider 2 things IMO :
_ Having troops not far from the canal of panama ( that chinese are managing if I am not wrong ).
_ And in case of a conflict between USA and China about Taiwan, it could be interesting for China to have troops ( submarines ) much closer to the US border. So that China could surely not invade but threaten US oil provisionning.

[Ghelp]

Chinese are not that stupid.

[Zoomie]

Well he will retaliate by putting a Russian or Chinese base.
I believe that's already in the works with Chavez or Ecuador.

[Bitogno]

Chinese are not that stupid.
Why ? In case of war with US about Taiwan why wouldn't they threaten US oil provisionning ?

[RSone]

LOLZ, hey maybe we should let Uncle Sam AND the Colombians have bases on the Antilles. See how El Jefe likes thatp-). Does he seriously think they'll listen to him in Colombia?

[Ghelp]

LOLZ, hey maybe we should let Uncle Sam AND he Colombians have bases on the Antilles. See how El Jefe likes thatp-). Does he seriously think they'll listen to him in Colombia?


He would just b*tch and whine like he is doing now.

[foxtrot023]

China could consider 2 things IMO :
_ Having troops not far from the canal of panama ( that chinese are managing if I am not wrong ).
_

You are wrong

[Ghelp]

Venezuela's territorial claim for La Guajira is bogus.What a clown.

[Corrupt]

How dare Columbia conduct it's own affairs without Chavez's permission! p-)

Lol
I see what you mean, but look at this way (playing Devils Advocate here)
He already spoke out about the US in the iternational arena and it wasnt too well received by the US. (Iv seen posts, not here but on other forums including "How dare they threaten the US like that, why dont we invade") and given the last half a dozen countries to "defy" the US got invaded uite quickly, surely he has good reason to say he aint happy with a US base 10 minutes drive fro his country?
Why do te US need a military outpost there anyway other than to irritate Venezuala

[Ghelp]

Lol
I see what you mean, but look at this way (playing Devils Advocate here)
He already spoke out about the US in the iternational arena and it wasnt too well received by the US. (Iv seen posts, not here but on other forums including "How dare they threaten the US like that, why dont we invade") and given the last half a dozen countries to "defy" the US got invaded uite quickly, surely he has good reason to say he aint happy with a US base 10 minutes drive fro his country?
Why do te US need a military outpost there anyway other than to irritate Venezuala

English is not my first language but damn it.I can barely make out what you are saying.

The Manta Air base in Ecuador will be closed.This installation is responsible for 60% of all drug interdictions in the area.It is backed up by AWACS air craft.That is why the US needs a base in the area.

[Bitogno]

You are wrong
Yes they are not managing the entire canal but according to what I found on the web, 2 prot at both end of the canal are managed by Hutchinson Whampoa, a chinese company and so they could be interested in blocking the entire canal.

[Afro-European]

Lol
Why do te US need a military outpost there anyway other than to irritate Venezuala
To conduct the "war on drugs".

[foxtrot023]

Yes they are not managing the entire canal but according to what I found on the web, 2 prot at both end of the canal are managed by Hutchinson Whampoa, a chinese company and so they could be interested in blocking the entire canal.

Yeah, of the ports privatised 2 are managed by Chinese companies. However from there to blocking the canal........ specially since the treaties signed allow the US to go to Panama anytime they feel the canal is threatened, no permission required

[Bitogno]

Yeah, of the ports privatised 2 are managed by Chinese companies. However from there to blocking the canal........ specially since the treaties signed allow the US to go to Panama anytime they feel the canal is threatened, no permission required
Yes but with chinese at the ports ( putting mines in the water before US intervention ) and chinese having a base in Venezuela, they could easily threaten US in this area.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/china/1999/e-11-18-99-5.htm

[ronaldo413]

English is not my first language but damn it.I can barely make out what you are saying.

The Manta Air base in Ecuador will be closed.This installation is responsible for 60% of all drug interdictions in the area.It is backed up by AWACS air craft.That is why the US needs a base in the area.


what about peru honduras why close to venezuela

[Zoomie]

what about peru honduras why close to venezuela
What's wrong with Columbia? Hmmm?

[ed316]

what about peru honduras why close to venezuela


US and Colombia are close allies. Colombia doesn't need Chavez's blessing. Ecuador might but not Colombia.

[Ordie]

The US already has a backup "lillipad" base on Aruba and in Honduras. The Ecuadorians are letting the agreement lapse as opposed to kicking the Americans out. There's alot at stake since the US Dollar is the Ecuadorian official currency and the US is the major trading partner. Keep in mind that "Nueva York" is Ecuador's fourth largest city.

Chavez is saying crap to spike up the oil price.

As for the Chinese, thier foreign policy is to not interfere the internal affairs of other nations. My prediction that any increased visible or invisible Chinese influence in Latin America will backfire. Simply because Latin American governments are by nature unpredictable, anarchist, nationalist, corportist and democratic at the same time. China cannot deal with multiple players, domestic daily crisis or social norms (strikes, political graffiti, demonstrations, siestas, hugs, kisses, Cumbia, holidays, or everyone taking a day off for futbol matches).

Panama Canal? Panama is one of the few countries that recognizes the Republic of China on Taiwan. Both the ROC and PRC has been throwing money and investment at Panama to win it's favor. Panama is playing the two China's for maximum returns.

[Gfunk]

I love how Chavez always refers to America as "The Empire". He's entertaining to say the least.

[damagejackal]

I love how Chavez always refers to America as "The Empire". He's entertaining to say the least.

It's not???

[Gfunk]

It's not???

We are, unfortunately. It's just funny that he's the only foreign leader that goes out of his way to point it out every time he speaks on us.

[ronaldo413]

castro amadinejahd morales, ortega, putin, london mayon livingston,

[Power_serj]

Well he will retaliate by putting a Russian or Chinese base.

Russians and Chinese don't care enough and don't have the balls to put a base in Venezuela. We have many reasons to put a base in Columbia: fight the war on drugs, stop FARC from coming in from Venezuela, as well as force projection.

[ronaldo413]

usa latin america POLICE great job uncle sam

[Zoomie]

usa latin america POLICE great job uncle sam
So, what's wrong with having a base in Columbia?

[theholeinthedonut]

castro amadinejahd morales, ortega, putin, london mayon livingston,


usa latin america POLICE great job uncle sam

Either smoke your pot or surf the web...but doing both at the same time isn't such a good idea..alltough your entertainement value is nearly as high as Chavez'.

[Bitogno]

Russians and Chinese don't care enough and don't have the balls to put a base in Venezuela. We have many reasons to put a base in Columbia: fight the war on drugs, stop FARC from coming in from Venezuela, as well as force projection.
Well, with US opening bases all around Russia, Putin's puppet could consider opening a base in Venezuela just to piss off USA. And about China, if they consider that getting back Taiwan peacefully isn't reachable, they could build a base for the reasons I explained before.

[Zoomie]

Either smoke your pot or surf the web...but doing both at the same time isn't such a good idea..alltough your entertainement value is nearly as high as Chavez'.
Perhaps he wants to be the South American OMEGA7. p-)

[Afro-European]

Russians and Chinese don't care enough and don't have the balls to put a base in Venezuela. We have many reasons to put a base in Columbia: fight the war on drugs, stop FARC from coming in from Venezuela, as well as force projection.
You forget that Russia had an electronic intelligence base(listening communications in the US) in Cuba from 1964 Lurdes until 2002.The base was closed but not dismentled,which means they can still go back there(They have an intelligence sharing agreement with Cuba).

[RICHICOQUI]

The Chinese have Special Forces to guard Chavez from assasination.The Russians have some investments in Venezuela including a naval grade alluminum plant.But I highly doubt any base. Gelp i'm sorry your are wrong its the cubans secret sevice not the chinese!

[Meatwad]

I don't see what the war on drugs is doing.. Besides giving Colombia **** loads of money. I mean Cocaine is so easy to come by these days.

[LEB101]

chavez is a stupid man

[damagejackal]

Some quotes from our friend...

"The Colombian government has become the Israel of Latin America," an agitated Chavez said, reiterating his criticism of the Israel Defense Forces' strikes on Palestinian militants.

"We aren't going to permit Colombia to become the Israel of these lands. ... Uribe, we aren't going to permit you."

Denouncing Colombia's slaying of the rebel commander in a cross-border raid into Ecuador, Chavez said Venezuela would respond militarily if Colombia violates its border.

"We don't want war, but we aren't going to permit the U.S. empire, which is the master [of Colombia] ... to come divide us," Chavez said on his weekly TV and radio program.

[Ghelp]

Ahh yes the ass hatery of Chavez.

[BloodyTalon]

usa latin america POLICE great job uncle sam

http://youtube.com/watch?v=syf8olcM0z4&feature=related

[Crna Strela]

I don't see what the war on drugs is doing.. Besides giving Colombia **** loads of money. I mean Cocaine is so easy to come by these days.

Maybe he meant "control" of drugs ...

[Power_serj]

If Columbia is the Israel of South America, then Chavez is the Saddam of South America.....during Desert Storm.

[foxtrot023]

Yes but with chinese at the ports ( putting mines in the water before US intervention ) and chinese having a base in Venezuela, they could easily threaten US in this area.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/china/1999/e-11-18-99-5.htm

No, not really. This is the US home turf

[DesktopArmor]

No, not really. This is the US home turf

The Monroe doctrine would definitely be invoked to deal with that. China would only do it if it WANTED a war with the US. Highly unlikely. Taiwan or no Taiwan, that would be war, and the US would not rest until the threat was gone.

[Ordie]

I recently returned from Latin America.

The US 'presence' is almost non-existant since the Cold War ended. Since that period, Latin American nations are exclusively democratic and independent. Needless to say there has been growing pains but are maturing and becoming more stable.

Populist like Chavez are not new to Latin American politics and he won't be the last. It's something the Latin Americans and the world must live with.

The US policy in Latin America has been 'hands off' policy. The fact that leaders blames the US for daily woes or percieved threats is silly.

What is lacking from the US since the Clinton Administration is a comprehensive outreach to Latin America. Servicing of loans, and distributing government aid are meaningless to the locals. What is needed is a new development policy with tangible results akin to president Kennedy's Alliance for Progress.

[WKD]

Yes but with chinese at the ports ( putting mines in the water before US intervention ) and chinese having a base in Venezuela, they could easily threaten US in this area.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/china/1999/e-11-18-99-5.htm

Yeah, I think it's a bit of a stretch going from two ports to mining the waters. Which wouldn't do them any good anyway, because the US could reassert control of the area literallly overnight and then remove the mines at their leisure. Consider the distance from China to Panama, and then compare to the distance from the US. Bit of an issue don't you think?

[Bitogno]

Yeah, I think it's a bit of a stretch going from two ports to mining the waters. Which wouldn't do them any good anyway, because the US could reassert control of the area literallly overnight and then remove the mines at their leisure. Consider the distance from China to Panama, and then compare to the distance from the US. Bit of an issue don't you think?
The begining of my participation to this thread was about China puting a base in Venezuela which is far more closer to Panama than China and even USA.

[RB]

Originally Posted by WKD http://militaryphotos.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=3251012#post3251012)
Yeah, I think it's a bit of a stretch going from two ports to mining the waters. Which wouldn't do them any good anyway, because the US could reassert control of the area literallly overnight and then remove the mines at their leisure. Consider the distance from China to Panama, and then compare to the distance from the US. Bit of an issue don't you think?

http://www.pennwellblogs.com/mae/2008/03/chinese-company-doesnt-operate-panama.html

What's not being taken into account with these Chinese companies is that they will do the bidding of the Chinese gvt when told to do so.

If the Chinese companies are told to 'allow' this ship with this 'cargo' through, and the 'cargo' makes it through the canal.....you figure it out.

What kind of cargo do you think the Chinese will bring through the canal?

It's not about mining the waters to keep the US out. It's about the Chinese getting 'in' whatever they want to get in.

:roll:

[WKD]

The begining of my participation to this thread was about China puting a base in Venezuela which is far more closer to Panama than China and even USA.

And the logistics of this base are and have to come through which ocean that is dominated by which fleet? Can you see my point here? Operating a base on the other side of the world does you no good if you can't keep the lines of communication with this base open.



[/i]

http://www.pennwellblogs.com/mae/2008/03/chinese-company-doesnt-operate-panama.html

What's not being taken into account with these Chinese companies is that they will do the bidding of the Chinese gvt when told to do so.

If the Chinese companies are told to 'allow' this ship with this 'cargo' through, and the 'cargo' makes it through the canal.....you figure it out.

What kind of cargo do you think the Chinese will bring through the canal?

It's not about mining the waters to keep the US out. It's about the Chinese getting 'in' whatever they want to get in.

:roll:

So exactly what good is it going to do them? Also this link doesn't say anything that hasn't been said already in this thread. Particuly that two of the ports are operated by a Chinese company. There are something like 18 ports irrc, so yeah.

[RB]

So exactly what good is it going to do them? Also this link doesn't say anything that hasn't been said already in this thread. Particuly that two of the ports are operated by a Chinese company. There are something like 18 ports irrc, so yeah.

Since you asked politely...

The link is in reference to an earlier post that stated China doesn't have much to do with the Panama Canal.

Something like??.

Have you ever been to Panama?

Are you that closed minded that you can't see China bringing some bad sh+t through the canal...via Sub loaded onto a transhipping freighter, moved East coast to West coast...all under the watchful eye of a Chinese company...

2 ENTRANCES...1 Pacific - 1 Atlantic....

What's your point?

Did you miss this part?



While actual Canal operations are in the hands of the Panamanian government, a Hong Kong-based company, Hutchison Whampoa Ltd. (http://www.hutchison-whampoa.com/eng/index.htm), which reportedly has ties to the government of the People's Republic of China (http://www.youdebate.com/DEBATES/panama_china.HTM) and its military, operates the port facilities on either end of the Panama Canal.

[WKD]

Since you asked politely...

The link is in reference to an earlier post that stated China doesn't have much to do with the Panama Canal.

Something like??.

Have you ever been to Panama?

Are you that closed minded that you can't see China bringing some bad sh+t through the canal...via Sub loaded onto a transhipping freighter, moved East coast to West coast...all under the watchful eye of a Chinese company...

2 ENTRANCES...1 Pacific - 1 Atlantic....

What's your point?

Did you miss this part?

Please, feel free to tell me what theis 'bad ****' is and exactly how it is going to effect the USA and what advantage it will bring the PRC. Take it from the monster under the bed and into an actual, specific scenario.

I know, nukes! So, China secretly nukes a major US city. Sorry to say but the US would continue, harsh as it sounds, and China would feel the effects of it's largest market suddenly curbing it's spending in order to repair. Plus, China is dead if the US actually finds out who did it. Which isn't completely unlikely. So I fail to see the gain for China.

Secret Nuke, followed by war? China would lose any nuclear exchange, so that's redundant as well, and there would be a nuclear reply if China did this.

Biological? Killing it's biggest market, only makes sense as a prelude to war. Which would probably turn nuclear given how it was initiated.

Drugs? This would result in competition with the South American Cartels, which would bring the street price down. Who cares? Crackheads benefit, War on Drugs continues to continue.

And what do you mean via a sub loaded onto a trans-shipping frieghter? I really don't understand that part. Nor what a lone chinese sub in the Atlantic would actually do, if you're implying that smuggling through the canal would be a method of infiltration into the Atlantic.

Feel free to help a brother out here.

[dava]

Are you that closed minded that you can't see China bringing some bad sh+t through the canal...via Sub loaded onto a transhipping freighter, moved East coast to West coast...all under the watchful eye of a Chinese company...

You do know MAJOR ports in your country are owned by a dubai state company?
Have fun installing air marshalls on every flight as the extremists can just bribe the right people at this company and smuggle a dirty bomb into USA ;)

Its a thing called capitalism.

[RB]

You do know MAJOR ports in your country are owned by a dubai state company?
Have fun installing air marshalls on every flight as the extremists can just bribe the right people at this company and smuggle a dirty bomb into USA ;)

Its a thing called capitalism.

Thanks....You both kinda made my point for me...

RB..out.

[dava]

But apparently, you missed the sarcasm in my post.
Sounds you would like to turn back time prior to globalisation.
You are just paranoid.

[ronaldo413]

Please, feel free to tell me what theis 'bad ****' is and exactly how it is going to effect the USA and what advantage it will bring the PRC. Take it from the monster under the bed and into an actual, specific scenario.

I know, nukes! So, China secretly nukes a major US city. Sorry to say but the US would continue, harsh as it sounds, and China would feel the effects of it's largest market suddenly curbing it's spending in order to repair. Plus, China is dead if the US actually finds out who did it. Which isn't completely unlikely. So I fail to see the gain for China.

Secret Nuke, followed by war? China would lose any nuclear exchange, so that's redundant as well, and there would be a nuclear reply if China did this.

Biological? Killing it's biggest market, only makes sense as a prelude to war. Which would probably turn nuclear given how it was initiated.

Drugs? This would result in competition with the South American Cartels, which would bring the street price down. Who cares? Crackheads benefit, War on Drugs continues to continue.

And what do you mean via a sub loaded onto a trans-shipping frieghter? I really don't understand that part. Nor what a lone chinese sub in the Atlantic would actually do, if you're implying that smuggling through the canal would be a method of infiltration into the Atlantic.

Feel free to help a brother out here.


nobody know how much nuke warhead USA CHINA RUSSIA FRANCE ENGLAND have is secret they not stupid good news for china the all world knew they only have 200 warhead, nobody know

[Zoomie]

nobody know how much nuke warhead USA CHINA RUSSIA FRANCE ENGLAND have is secret they not stupid good news for china the all world knew they only have 200 warhead, nobody know
Retard. :roll:
We don't keep the the amount of nukes we have secret. We're actually probably one of the most, if not the most open country around that talks about its nuclear arsenal. Not to mention, we're deactivating warheads every year.

I also like how you contradict yourself in saying that both the amount of nukes China has is secret, but somehow you know that they've got 200. What's it it going to be?

[sepheronx]

Retard. :roll:
We don't keep the the amount of nukes we have secret. We're actually probably one of the most, if not the most open country around that talks about its nuclear arsenal. Not to mention, we're deactivating warheads every year.

I also like how you contradict yourself in saying that both the amount of nukes China has is secret, but somehow you know that they've got 200. What's it it going to be?

Secrete 200 nukes? Lol

On one hand, the more nukes does not equate up to better. Cause if 200 nukes are enough to completely obliterate your enemy to nothing, then I think that is enough.

Russia and USA both had an agreement to deplete down to 2500 Nukes, but neither side seemed to follow the agreement, and both have more then 2500. Lol.

[Zoomie]

Russia and USA both had an agreement to deplete down to 2500 Nukes, but neither side seemed to follow the agreement, and both have more then 2500. Lol.
Instant nuclear disarmament doesn't quite happen, hate to burst your bubble there. The SORT Treaty said that both parties should have their arsenals down to 2500 by the start of 2013, but I don't think either party will meet that goal. However, I do know the US is continually deactivating nukes. Not in the amount people would like to see, but then again, isn't some better than none?