Over the beach test HK416 vs. M4

[zulu261]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGwkHktkTxU

I let the video speak.

[-Church-]

Nice tesht, and music.

Kiddings aside nice video.

[VETdude382]

HK is the Mercedes of firearms.

[meatrabbit]

Seems like the HK 416 is a pretty good weapon. I was pretty surprised what happened to the M 4 when shooting right after pulling it out of the water.

[Hyde]

He wore the helmet with the m4 but did not with the hk416...what does that tell us? He expected the m4 to "explode"? Bad safety regulations? If first, why did he? Did he modify it so it would malfunciton? Didnt he trust the m4 but on the other hand if he knows what can happen to the m4 still trusts the hk with his life that this would never happen? I dont think so.

[TallGuy]

He wore the helmet with the m4 but did not with the hk416...what does that tell us? He expected the m4 to "explode"? Bad safety regulations? If first, why did he? Did he modify it so it would malfunciton? Didnt he trust the m4 but on the other hand if he knows what can happen to the m4 still trusts the hk with his life that this would never happen? I dont think so.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing....

[Kitsune]

Nice, though no replacement for a real independent testing.

(Oh boy, the guy doing the testing uses a damn ugly Swabian accent...)

[Albatross]

It is a better weapons system no doubt, the question is necessity.

[MajorPayne]

He only wore a helmet but other parts of his body weren't protected - specifically hands and arms.

I'd be afraid that my fingers would get blown off.

[-Church-]

He wore the helmet with the m4 but did not with the hk416...what does that tell us? He expected the m4 to "explode"? Bad safety regulations? If first, why did he? Did he modify it so it would malfunciton? Didnt he trust the m4 but on the other hand if he knows what can happen to the m4 still trusts the hk with his life that this would never happen? I dont think so.

They developped the HK 416 with the aims to stop stoppage, jams and self detonations of the rifle.

Odds are they knew they kinda knew what they were advertising, stop being a ****.

[AlexMartin2]

Interesting to see such tests comparing HK and newest AKs.

[Vandrefalken]

Will be getting HK416 in November. Really looking forward to it! I will miss the old G3 though, but it has served well for 40 years and now it's time for a worthy inheritor. Respect to the HK gunmakers.

[Hyde]

They developped the HK 416 with the aims to stop stoppage, jams and self detonations of the rifle.

Odds are they knew they kinda knew what they were advertising, stop being a ****.

****? Excuse me, but this is in no way an objective test but a promotional video. Basing your opinion about the m4 being bs or the hk being ubergreat on a promotional video makes you a ****. There are a lot of Greek, American, Israeli and other soldiers who can assure you they fired an m4 after getting it out of water and they still have their head on their shoulders. Maybe this happened to some m4s before, but as likely it could maybe happen to some 416s in future. Video is not objective, end of story.

[JoaMei]

Of course this is a HK Promo Video, but:

All M4 and similar with direct Gas System will blow up in a Test like this.

But all piston systems, not only HK will work.

It is well known the M16 System has a Problem with Water.

[Dave-Sappy]

If you read the thread about it over at HKPro, youll see that the video was an internal video only, so it seems it was never made for public release.

Its pretty apparent that they'd obviously carried out that test before and knew what would happen to each of the weapons. As I said, more details on the story behind the video on HKPro.

[Mackie]

He wore the helmet with the m4 but did not with the hk416...what does that tell us? He expected the m4 to "explode"? Bad safety regulations? If first, why did he? Did he modify it so it would malfunciton? Didnt he trust the m4 but on the other hand if he knows what can happen to the m4 still trusts the hk with his life that this would never happen? I dont think so.

He speaks Swabian. It seems that the Tester is member of the development team. I think he know how HIS product perform but not how an M4.

[Mackie]

Nice, though no replacement for a real independent testing.

(Der Tester hat allerdings einen ganz fiesen schwäbischen Akzent...Mann oh Mann...)

Nothing against Swabians! ^^

His accent is typical in the region of Stuttgart/Schwaebisch Hall.

[JaketheSnake]

Another HK sponsered test where the HK weapon is greater than X product its replacing.

Wow, I mean who would have figured the HK rifle would have come out on top?!

[JaketheSnake]

I'd sooner believe the results from a test like this than something from HK.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/u5CQOvdYW6c&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/u5CQOvdYW6c&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5CQOvdYW6c

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6L5ZXU9mr9g&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6L5ZXU9mr9g&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L5ZXU9mr9g

[Seiran]

My question is why did they change rifles for the different tests?

[FuturPJ]

after seeing that video i would hate to be a marine doing a beach landing with the M4/M16

[zulu261]

"If the barrel is full of water, the gun will explode"

We saw that in the HK vid. So where is your point Snake? The 416 didnt.

And "full of sand" looks different.

-->

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcsY0zaL3j4

[Hyde]

He speaks Swabian. It seems that the Tester is member of the development team. I think he know how HIS product perform but not how an M4.

Komm, phantasier dir nix zusammen damit alles schön Sinn ergibt. :roll:

Translation: Yeah, right...

[boy1000]

I'd sooner believe the results from a test like this than something from HK.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/u5CQOvdYW6c&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/u5CQOvdYW6c&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5CQOvdYW6c

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6L5ZXU9mr9g&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6L5ZXU9mr9g&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L5ZXU9mr9g

Chief

They have on future weapons did a sand test and submerged test similiar to the shown. At the moment pretty much all special operation forces in the west are changing to the 416 and 417 platform. I am very sure they have done their own test to find out if this was thier new toy. One European SF have replaced their competitor arms with this depite it is only 3 years old...

[Mackie]

I'd sooner believe the results from a test like this than something from HK.


Same propaganda by the manufacturer. The test says the same about the M4/M16 what you can see in the HK video. It blows up.
And I doubt that HK wanna show untruths because this test is also about security.

Also this test shows nothing.
Our whole platoon used 2 G36s (XM8sp-)) rifles on a shooting stand, fired hundred of rounds - no jams, no problems.
The shooting was at the 4th day of an one week exercise. The G36s were drawn through mud and snow and not cleaned until the end of the shooting exercise.
All you need to care a G36 is weapon oil. Put some in the barrel and your rifle is ready for the next thousand rounds.
Also you can push forward the charging handle very slowly and quiet.
A useful feature which demonstrate the reliable mechanism.

So please post a more impressive test about the M4/M16.

Mackie

[DS73]

He wore the helmet with the m4 but did not with the hk416...what does that tell us? He expected the m4 to "explode"? Bad safety regulations? If first, why did he? Did he modify it so it would malfunciton? Didnt he trust the m4 but on the other hand if he knows what can happen to the m4 still trusts the hk with his life that this would never happen? I dont think so.

That is exactly the reason. Obviously this advertisement video is made after tests done, so test engineers knew what they can expect.

[RomanS]

Was that a Russian helmet he was wearing?

[Bohemoth]

US-American battle-proven design + German engineering = Perfect = HK41x series. :hug:

[zulu261]

Was that a Russian helmet he was wearing?

I thought so.

[zulu261]

.
All you need to care a G36 is weapon oil. Put some in the barrel and your rifle is ready for the next thousand rounds.



We never use oil with the barrel before shooting. Just make sure the Verschluss (Bolt?) is firmly oiled and the Verschlusskopf (Bolt head or something...) moves.

In general the first shot will blow everything out of the barrel and its clean again.

[DID]

german are the best... the guns of the extreme. thx for the vids.

[OstiasMoscas]

Will be getting HK416 in November. Really looking forward to it! I will miss the old G3 though, but it has served well for 40 years and now it's time for a worthy inheritor. Respect to the HK gunmakers.

In November? I'm starting my conscription with the 2nd Battalion in August. Do yo think I'll get to try the 416 between then and when my conscription ends in July/August 09? :)

EDIT:
Pretty cool vid.

To the guys who wonder why he didn't wear protective gear while firing the HK416:
If you look at all the other water tests posted on youtube with the 416, you can also see that none of the HK employees, or that guy from Future Weapons are using any kind of protective gear when they fire the 416 after it being submerged in water or buried in sand..

[mikec62001]

I have a few questions following this clip:

1. Why have units such as the SBS and SEAL teams carried this weapon and use it in water for such a long time if it is likely to blow up in their faces?

Clip as an example:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovj9CZ5cdW4

2. The M4 has been around quite some time and the 416/SCAR have recently been produced so you would have thought that there have been soldiers/operators seriously injured if not killed from this type of thing happening and would have thought if this had happened the weapon would be immediately dropped and a replacement found immediately?

Cheers

Mike

[Rubik]

1. Why have units such as the SBS and SEAL teams carried this weapon and use it in water for such a long time if it is likely to blow up in their faces?

maybe because they have used russian helmets too :D

ok, i know the 416 is a great weapon and the m4 is also a great one. but spending time arguing which one is better doesnt help your fav gun actually become better , right ?
which one is better ? well, time will tell XD

[arthasauyeung]

My goodness, what a joke lads~ M4 with its magazine projected away?:)

[gaelic]

it is a NATO test, few weapons pass it.

[arthasauyeung]

it is a NATO test, few weapons pass it.
Yeah man, that's why German Firearms are proven to be the best! The ultimate accuracy of semi-automatic H&K PSG-1's an example corroborating this fact, really~

[Dark Avenger]

Of course this is a HK Promo Video, but:

All M4 and similar with direct Gas System will blow up in a Test like this.

But all piston systems, not only HK will work.

It is well known the M16 System has a Problem with Water.

The lack of a piston makes the M16 system have problems with everything; dust, sand, water, even its own gunpowder residue and heat from firing...

[Rynnäkkökivääri]

I second the idea of a test comparing the 416 to the AK.

[Hun Ranger (not real)]

I have a few questions following this clip:

1. Why have units such as the SBS and SEAL teams carried this weapon and use it in water for such a long time if it is likely to blow up in their faces?

Clip as an example:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovj9CZ5cdW4

Cheers

Mike

If iam right SBS and SAS uses Diemaco rifles, maybe thats the answer.

[planeman]

Whatever happened to the H&K G11? Also, how does the Styr AUG match up to these?

[OstiasMoscas]

If iam right SBS and SAS uses Diemaco rifles, maybe thats the answer.

Diemaco C8 SFW

At least that's what the FSK and MJK uses.

[Plausible Deniability]

I see so many pictures of Special Forces and Rangers coming out of the water with M4s. how can they take the M4 on a mission, that involves water infiltration if the weapon is going to function so poorly? Aka, blow up in your face.

[eskachig]

The M4 has been around quite some time and the 416/SCAR have recently been produced so you would have thought that there have been soldiers/operators seriously injured if not killed from this type of thing happening and would have thought if this had happened the weapon would be immediately dropped and a replacement found immediately?Professionals are good at knowing the limitations of their weapons.

[Dkraver]

I'd sooner believe the results from a test like this than something from HK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5CQOvdYW6c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L5ZXU9mr9g


IF you sooner believe in this test then you should listen to some of the points the guy in it say.
1. They made improvements to the upper receiver because know issues
2. He tells that they make small brakes to keep from overheating the gun and getting a cookoff (spelling) which the hk wont get because of the piston system since the heated gas isnt blown back to the chamber.
3. When picking the weapon up from the water he shakes it multiple times to get the water out and then tells that you shouldnt shoot it with water in the barrel because it will explode.

So instead of making a really stress test he keeps avoiding there areas where it will break down so he is sure that it will go all the way. So he actually tells you its not that "good" a weapon. And makes the hk test more impresive.

PS: in "good" i dont mean that the m4 is a bad weapon. but just that it has its flauls

[Mackie]

We never use oil with the barrel before shooting. Just make sure the Verschluss (Bolt?) is firmly oiled and the Verschlusskopf (Bolt head or something...) moves.

In general the first shot will blow everything out of the barrel and its clean again.

Verschluss (Bolt?) = bolt carrier ^^

I know but I think it's better to the barrel if you put oil in after shooting and make a simple field cleaning. The oil solubilize the soot.

Oil in the bolt carrier .... k ... a second more. ^^

[Arabia]

He tells that they make small brakes to keep from overheating the gun and getting a cookoff (spelling) which the hk wont get because of the piston system since the heated gas isnt blown back to the chamber.Actually the gas system has nothing to do with a cook off. A cook off can happen in any semi-auto gun, when the barrel gets so hot it sets the round off in the chamber.

The Hk416 would be the cheapest option since the military could keep their lowers. But the problems is the military won't change until their is a major advancement in firearms technology such as case less rounds, lasers, Plasma etc. Lets face the facts that firearm technology has reached its apex, there is not much more you can do with the current weapons. Until they invent something dramatically new. Its not worth the cost to buy all new weapons that are not significantly better than the M16 system. The M16/M4 will be around for a long time to come.

[Dkraver]

Actually the gas system has nothing to do with a cook off. A cook off can happen in any semi-auto gun, when the barrel gets so hot it sets the round off in the chamber.

Yes and no. Its the chamber and/or the bolt that get so hot that i sets of the round. The barrel it self dont have any contact with the round until its fired. And one of the main reason for this on a gas operated weapon is the super heated gas blown back to load the next round. You dont have that problem with the piston operated round since the gas isnt blown back but leaves the gun. Saw a test with the hk416 where after firing x amount of rounds they could take out the bolt and hold it since it wasnt hot at all.

Heres a little illustration of the difference of the two guns
http://www.armytimes.com/projects/flash/2007_02_20_carbine/

[Arabia]

You do realize the chamber is the rear part of the barrel that fits into the receiver, so if the barrel is hot so is the chamber. The chamber is machined into the barrel. Since the metal around the chamber is thicker it takes longer to heat up but once it does it stays hot for a longer period of time. You are right that the M16 bolt also gets hot but that does not cause cook offs, since it has little contact with the round. An Ak can have a cook off if its chamber gets super heated from sustained auto fire. You can have a cook off in a bolt action rifle. Though it would be hard to do since the barrel has more time to cool in between shots.

[Seiran]

Just for my own clarification - How the hell do you machine the chamber into the barrel, when the chamber is in the upper receiver of the weapon and the barrel and upper receiver are two separate parts?

[winchester_down]

Just for my own clarification - How the hell do you machine the chamber into the barrel, when the chamber is in the upper receiver of the weapon and the barrel and upper receiver are two separate parts?

I'm not qualified ont he M4/M16 or HK416 for that matter but I am on the Styer, so as a result I know that the chamber is the rear end of the barrel where the cartridge is "chambered" for firing.

I have stripped an m16 and the barrel is part of the upper reviever untill you remove it from what I could tell. so the chamber is "in" the upper but also the barrel.

here is a link to an good animation but it doesnt mention chamber lol

http://www.bushmaster.com/anatomy_bushmaster.asp

[SMGLee]

The FN SCAR is the only weapon that actually qualified the over the beach test. notice how the HK tester fired a round with the 416 submerged in the water? he lifted the gun from beneath the water, crank on the charging handle and fired a round?

this is because all M16 series design platform, 416, M4s, M16, C7/8 all utilize a buffer tube with a buffer and spring inside a close confined tube(buffer tube). this creates a hydraulic effect which cause the buffer to slow while trying to push out the water inside the tube. since the gun is full submerged inside the water with only the muzzle sticking out of the water, firing a round like that will usually cause the weapon to have a FTF....

Only the SCAR can be fire multiple rounds with it underneath the water with to any ill effect....Since SCAR does not utilize a buffer tube.


to be able to fire a DI gas M4 out of water, you simply raise out of the water, give it a quick shake and the weapon is fully operational...

As far as the sand test.... DO you realize the ejection port door was closed? I can do that with my DI gas M4......it is all about marketing.....

[hardKor439]

1. It probably should be classified as a "demonstration" rather than a test. An interesting demonstration, but not an impartial test. Anything with HK logos all over the video means the engineer in me takes it all with a grain of salt.

2. I sure as heck would have worn more protection than the Boba Fett helmet, no matter the weapon.

2. I'd love to see the same demo with the SCAR. Anything out there from AR15.com or other sites yet? Maybe, SMG, you may know of something.

3. The german techno music did it for me. Now every time I pull out the USP for target practice, I'm gonna be humming that music in my mind. Thanks HK.

[Arabia]

Look at the link posted by Winchester-down. The animated AR shows the chamber, its where the cartridge is fed by the bolt into the barrel right before it is fired. The chamber is milled into the barrel, it is not a separate part. All barrels unscrew from the receiver. Unlike other rifles the barrel in the M16 series of rifles is locked into the receiver by a barrel nut instead of being screwed directly into the receiver. It is just a matter of twisting off the nut to remove the barrel from the receiver.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamber_%28firearms%29

[CG51]

Watch out SMGLee! All the M4 haters will be trying to dissect your post!

[OldRecon]

Same propaganda by the manufacturer. The test says the same about the M4/M16 what you can see in the HK video. It blows up.
And I doubt that HK wanna show untruths because this test is also about security.

Also this test shows nothing.
Our whole platoon used 2 G36s (XM8sp-)) rifles on a shooting stand, fired hundred of rounds - no jams, no problems.
The shooting was at the 4th day of an one week exercise. The G36s were drawn through mud and snow and not cleaned until the end of the shooting exercise.
All you need to care a G36 is weapon oil. Put some in the barrel and your rifle is ready for the next thousand rounds.
Also you can push forward the charging handle very slowly and quiet.
A useful feature which demonstrate the reliable mechanism.

So please post a more impressive test about the M4/M16.

Mackie


These watershot gimmicks work with HK-416, Kalashnikovs and G-36 because of the of the closed cycle piston/cylinder gas operation mechanism of those guns.
Any water behind the piston head is either forced out through went holes in the piston cylinder our out into the main gun body outside of the chamber/barrel area.
Ensuring that any water counterinertia/backpressure to gun cycle mechanism is kept within tolerances of the chamber bolt-lock.

If you do this with an armalite family weapon, with gases tappered directly onto the bolt carrier from a gas tube without piston (minus the AR-18 with gas-piston) there is quite a lot of water in the gas tube (seeping in from the gas port and receiver) that needs to be pushed out first.
So if you fire the armalite filled with water, first the bolt lock must handle the water backpressure as the bullet forces it's way in the barrel towards the muzzle.
Then when the bullet passes the gas port in the barrel, add in the pressure from all that water in the gas tupe that needs to be cleared from the gas tube first.

Firing blowback weapons like the H&K G-3/AG-3 with water filled barrels is also not recommended, as the roller lock of those guns aren't calibrated to handle the extra backpressure of the water the bullet needs to push aside before exiting the barrel.

[PanzerMaster]

He wore the helmet with the m4 but did not with the hk416...what does that tell us? He expected the m4 to "explode"? Bad safety regulations? If first, why did he? Did he modify it so it would malfunciton? Didnt he trust the m4 but on the other hand if he knows what can happen to the m4 still trusts the hk with his life that this would never happen? I dont think so.

Count also me sharing your concerns. Was the first thing I noticed (and maybe also the only coz I am not a military or gun expert :oops:)

BTW... nice old music... someone know its name? (too lazy to open youtube)

[JoaMei]

The music is "U96 - Das Boot" if I remember correctly. Indeed very old.

[Rynnäkkökivääri]

So, does anybody know if you can do this with an AK or M1 Garand? If so, that'd really dampen the 416. I mean, then it has nothing really going for it. It's accuracy has been there for a while, and if you can do this with an AK/Garand then it's reliability is nothing new(assuming you can).

[OldRecon]

So, does anybody know if you can do this with an AK or M1 Garand? If so, that'd really dampen the 416. I mean, then it has nothing really going for it. It's accuracy has been there for a while, and if you can do this with an AK/Garand then it's reliability is nothing new(assuming you can).

As the HK gas piston for G-36 and HK-416 is modelled on the Kalashnikov one (though with somewhat shorter piston rod?) I presume you can do this with AK's too.

As for Garands??
Depents on degree of venting in the piston-/gas-tupe, and combined amount of water back pressure in barrel and gas-tube, vs. tolerances of the chamber and bolt lock of the weapon. Bearing in mind that that the 30.06 is rather more powerfull than the 7.62x39, 5.45x39 or 5.56 NATO. So if it doesn't work all that well ... :roll:.

[SMGLee]

As the HK gas piston for G-36 and HK-416 is modelled on the Kalashnikov one (though with somewhat shorter piston rod?) I presume you can do this with AK's too.

You are wrong, do some research, HK416 nor the G36 utilize the AK style piston system.

[OldRecon]

You are wrong, do some research, HK416 nor the G36 utilize the AK style piston system.

The gas piston of the HK weapons my not be a copy of the AK one.
For one as i mention within ()'s the HK piston is shorter than the AK.
But basic operating principle i guess is much the same, with gases tapered from the gun barrel pushing against a piston inside a tube above the barrel, which thereupon open the barrel lock and drive the bolt grop rearwards, until movement i arrested by a main spring to the rear of the bolt group, despite the detail differences and different methods of bolt locking (the bolt lock of the HK weapons looking rather similar to that employed on Armalites?).
Though I haven't tried it myself, according to an article on the Kalashnikov's, published by a guy involved with the HK-416 purchase of the Norwegian armed forces recently, the AK and the HK-416 exhibit similar characteristics when drenched in water.
As the guy behind the article in question is an armourer by profession working with the Norwegian Defence Research Institute, I rather trust his word for it.

http://www.fofo.no/Legenden+fra+Russland.b7C_wZLK1-.ips

[andreen]

Sorry if I go OT with this question, but since I figure this thread se a many blokes who are good on the HK-416 I hope thay can help me with my question in a hartbeat.

Can you put the 417 longer handgard on a 416?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50097&stc=1&d=1211364181
My photoshop mix of a 417 and a 416.


Thanks in advance
Andreen

[SMGLee]

The gas piston of the HK weapons my not be a copy of the AK one.
For one as i mention within ()'s the HK piston is shorter than the AK.
But basic operating principle i guess is much the same, with gases tapered from the gun barrel pushing against a piston inside a tube above the barrel, which thereupon open the barrel lock and drive the bolt grop rearwards, until movement i arrested by a main spring to the rear of the bolt group, despite the detail differences and different methods of bolt locking (the bolt lock of the HK weapons looking rather similar to that employed on Armalites?).

That is like saying the Turbo charged engine is the same as supercharged engine......

same force induction does not mean they operate the same....

this is true with piston design, AK system is different from the AR18/G36/HK416 design, but they are all listed under the piston driven system.

[conefire]

Only the SCAR can be fire multiple rounds with it underneath the water with to any ill effect....Since SCAR does not utilize a buffer tube.

The SCAR is not the only one to not use a buffer tube, though. In fact, besides the AR15s most rifles don't. I'd not necessarily try it with a G36, but it could work.

[Sabre]

I dont know about the rest of you, but for me the most amazing thing about that video was the Techno remix of the Das Boot theme. :)

Seriously though it's an unrealistic situation, as you would take all precautions to avoid immersing your rifle in the first place and carry out actions to clear it if it were to happen. I don't know anyone who would trust a video they saw on the internet over a quick clearance drill. You'll notice that the guy, when firing under water, re-cocks the weapon after, even though the 'report' says that it cycled correctly, even he didn't trust it.

Anyway, I'd argue that the biggest problem for a soldier is a muzzle plug from ploughing into the dirt. That still requires a field strip and use of the rods. It's far more likely than some kind of rambo-style emergence from the water.

These 'tests' are more for show than anything else.

[gaelic]

If iam right SBS and SAS uses Diemaco rifles, maybe thats the answer.


they use hk416 too

[Loomisfarms01]

The FN SCAR is the only weapon that actually qualified the over the beach test. notice how the HK tester fired a round with the 416 submerged in the water? he lifted the gun from beneath the water, crank on the charging handle and fired a round?

this is because all M16 series design platform, 416, M4s, M16, C7/8 all utilize a buffer tube with a buffer and spring inside a close confined tube(buffer tube). this creates a hydraulic effect which cause the buffer to slow while trying to push out the water inside the tube. since the gun is full submerged inside the water with only the muzzle sticking out of the water, firing a round like that will usually cause the weapon to have a FTF....

Only the SCAR can be fire multiple rounds with it underneath the water with to any ill effect....Since SCAR does not utilize a buffer tube.


to be able to fire a DI gas M4 out of water, you simply raise out of the water, give it a quick shake and the weapon is fully operational...

As far as the sand test.... DO you realize the ejection port door was closed? I can do that with my DI gas M4......it is all about marketing.....

While this is true I would have to point out the HK416 was not part of the SCAR program testing. So, the FN SCAR never faced the HK416 and it also has the "over the beach" capabilty, buffer tube or not.