AH-64 vs insurgent video compilation

[MajorPayne]

Best i've seen to date:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKAxmyRau4E

Most excellent video compilation :)

[JJHH]

I wonder if the designers of the Apache ever thought about, or imagined, that the Apache would take on this 'anti-personnel' role with it's 30mm gun (instead of just the anti-tank role).

Would'nt it be more effective to arm the Apache with a minigun or a 20mm Gatling-style gun? You don't need a 30mm to hunt people.

[Pistol Prawn]

i agree with you Jelle, and I think the 20mm ammo shoots more accurately and flies straighter than the heavier 30mm ammo. But the 30mm is absolutely devastating against vehicles like vans and trucks. i wonder what differences there regarding wall penetration between the the two calibres?? Anyone know?

[MississippiMarine]

i agree with you Jelle, and I think the 20mm ammo shoots more accurately and flies straighter than the heavier 30mm ammo. But the 30mm is absolutely devastating against vehicles like vans and trucks. i wonder what differences there regarding wall penetration between the the two calibres?? Anyone know?


Since neither is firing an AP round, penetration is not really an issue. Both fire an HE-I round. The 30mm is bigger explosion. The Apache's 30mm is essentialy the same chain gun as the Bradley's 25mm, except it is chambered for 30mm and has the rate of fire turned up.

[AlphaOneSix]

Both fire an HE-I round.

Odd, I worked on Apaches for years and never saw a single HEI round. All we ever used was HEDP (or maybe TP). Also, HEI rounds for the M230 are not mentioned in any Army manuals. I don't think it was ever accepted for use by the Army.

[superbenben]

it's bullets just like the missile~~~accurate!

[PanzerMaster]

Nice to see some terrorist scum wasted.

But, in some video we see some structures hit by a 30mm hail of bullet... we don't know the state of the area of operation, but if there were civilians inside those homes?
I hope that there are particular ROE for firing heavy weaponry in urban neighborhood or else insurgents are breeded faster than killed.

[sfcanidate]

I wonder if the designers of the Apache ever thought about, or imagined, that the Apache would take on this 'anti-personnel' role with it's 30mm gun (instead of just the anti-tank role).

Would'nt it be more effective to arm the Apache with a minigun or a 20mm Gatling-style gun? You don't need a 30mm to hunt people.

range and effectiveness is better with th 30MM, most of these shots are from 1000 yrads and by the way, who cares? they hurt our young people, so what's the difference? NONE!

[JJHH]

range and effectiveness is better with th 30MM, most of these shots are from 1000 yrads and by the way, who cares? they hurt our young people, so what's the difference? NONE!

"Range and effectiveness is better"

Yes, the range is longer but more effective? It wasn't designed for this type of engagement. The 30mm Apache canon has a pretty slow rate of fire compared to gatling-style guns. Miniguns have a good range too, and probably cause less collateral damage to buildings, etc. Why not mount extra guns on the apache, just like the often seen Gatling guns on the killer egg choppers?

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/6906/kesl2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/6906/kesl2.b208cdec64.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=107&i=kesl2.jpg)

[Virus]

If you see an apache video where they are shooting into a building, there is more than likely some sort of insurgent/criminal element inside said building. In the case of this video though, maybe they REALLY wanted to kill these guys to risk hitting the surrounding buildings. But I've seen cases where there was mortar fire coming from a small house compound, and my bat xo, told the apache to not fire upon it as there were women and children present.

[cowboy josh]

It's sad to see all those people die. But I guess that's war. Unfortunate that it comes to this.

[Ravage]

"Range and effectiveness is better"

Yes, the range is longer but more effective? It wasn't designed for this type of engagement. The 30mm Apache canon has a pretty slow rate of fire compared to gatling-style guns. Miniguns have a good range too, and probably cause less collateral damage to buildings, etc. Why not mount extra guns on the apache, just like the often seen Gatling guns on the killer egg choppers?



Apache's M230 has +/- 625 shots per minute with 1200 ammo, a M134 (like the one used by the AH-6 Little Birds) is around 4,000 prm's. So the minigun eats up ammo like hell.

Btw the helo on the pic is a OH-6 used in Vietnam p-)

[jonosk]

well i thought the copra had a 20mm, why don´t u never see gun cam videos from them.

[Ravage]

Copra ? you mean AH-1 Cobra ?

http://youtube.com/watch/v/4lME90nKKE0
http://youtube.com/watch/v/oqd7jjZ_7D0

[MajorPayne]

It's interesting to note that the 30mm rounds do not have to land on the human targets in order to kill or injure them. They must hurt real bad I guess.

[PanzerMaster]

If you see an apache video where they are shooting into a building, there is more than likely some sort of insurgent/criminal element inside said building. In the case of this video though, maybe they REALLY wanted to kill these guys to risk hitting the surrounding buildings. But I've seen cases where there was mortar fire coming from a small house compound, and my bat xo, told the apache to not fire upon it as there were women and children present.

Thanks for your clarification mate.

[Virus]

Thanks for your clarification mate.


Well to be honest I'm no expert, only one deployment myself. But from what I've seen, they more than always have to clear their fire with higher. So they will have to verify that the target is a baddie. Not like they can just shoot whatever they want willy nilly, I mean ****, they are being recorded obviously.

[Darkone]

The last one (the crowd) was from a F-16 IIRC...

[henrichek]

This is pretty sick. They are just as likely civilians as anything else. They just mow down people without a second thought. Murderers indeed.

[LibertyUnites]

This is pretty sick. They are just as likely civilians as anything else. They just mow down people without a second thought. Murderers indeed.

You're right! The way they just flew around seeking out and gunning down the first group of civilians they found was pretty disgusting. Please post the video which features the same clips in their entirety that you watched, which lead you to this conclusion. I especially find your ability to read the pilots' minds fascinating.

You wont make it 30 posts.

[henrichek]

You're right! The way they just flew around seeking out and gunning down the first group of civilians they found was pretty disgusting. Please post the video which features the same clips in their entirety that you watched, which lead you to this conclusion. I especially find your ability to read the pilots' minds fascinating.

You wont make it 30 posts.

I'd rather see the evidence to the contrary. I would say good riddance if you could see them carrying around RPG's or digging down a bomb or something in that fashion. You might be right in these cases, but the videos would be more tasteful if they actually showed a clip of the killed people doing something nasty first.

[Virus]

This is pretty sick. They are just as likely civilians as anything else. They just mow down people without a second thought. Murderers indeed.


You know what, I was thinking up my response to this statement, but I don't even want to respond to this ignorance.

[eskachig]

I'd rather see the evidence to the contrary. I would say good riddance if you could see them carrying around RPG's or digging down a bomb or something in that fashion. You might be right in these cases, but the videos would be more tasteful if they actually showed a clip of the killed people doing something nasty first.There are plenty of less edited clips out there with radio chatter left in. Pilots pretty much always ask for authorization except in cases of folks clearly brandishing weapons.

But in some ways I agree with you - people who make these compilations are usually way too gung ho for my liking.

[matsalleh18]

i would love a Gau-8 mini gun on the apache.