Phone calls & E-Mail database considered, UK

[khukuri]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7409593.stm



Phone calls database considered

The Lib Dems called the plans an "Orwellian step too far"

Ministers are to consider plans for a database of electronic information holding details of every phone call and e-mail sent in the UK, it has emerged.

The plans, reported in the Times, are at an early stage and may be included in the draft Communications Bill later this year, the Home Office confirmed.

A Home Office spokesman said the data was a "crucial tool" for protecting national security and preventing crime.

Ministers have not seen the plans which were drawn up by Home Office officials.

A Home Office spokesman said: "The Communications Data Bill will help ensure that crucial capabilities in the use of communications data for counter-terrorism and investigation of crime continue to be available.

"These powers will continue to be subject to strict safeguards to ensure the right balance between privacy and protecting the public."


Given the appalling track record of data loss, this state is simply not to be trusted with such private information
Chris Huhne
Lib Dems

The spokesman said changes need to be made to the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 "to ensure that public authorities can continue to obtain and have access to communications data essential for counter-terrorism and investigation of crime purposes".

But the Information Commission, an independent authority set up to protect personal information, said the database "may well be a step too far" and highlighted the risk of data being lost, traded or stolen.

Assistant information commissioner Jonathan Bamford said: "We are not aware of any justification for the state to hold every UK citizen's phone and internet records. We have real doubts that such a measure can be justified, or is proportionate or desirable.

"Defeating crime and terrorism is of the utmost importance, but we are not aware of any pressing need to justify the government itself holding this sort of data."

'Appalling record'

A number of data protection failures in recent months, including the loss of a CD carrying the personal details of every child benefit claimant, have embarrassed the government.

The plans also prompted concern from political groups.

The shadow home secretary, David Davis, said: "Given [ministers'] appalling record at maintaining the integrity of databases holding people's sensitive data, this could well be more of a threat to our security than a support."

Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman Chris Huhne called the proposals "an Orwellian step too far".

He said ministers had "taken leave of their senses if they think that this proposal is compatible with a free country and a free people".

"Given the appalling track record of data loss, this state is simply not to be trusted with such private information," said Mr Huhne.

You can consider this from an private freedom perspective but there is another perspective, the Business one. It is well known that a lot of the activities of lets say US echelon and other spying organizations is not terrorism but pure Business spying.

[hell]

You can consider this from an private freedom perspective but there is another perspective, the Business one. It is well known that a lot of the activities of lets say US echelon and other spying organizations is not terrorism but pure Business spying.

Yep, it's similar to Google's visitor tracking, but on a much grander scale; think Adwords on the side of your Gmail page is bad, wait until you start getting old-fashioned junk mail advertising adult toys because your 1-900 phone call was logged and subsequently sold to help pay for the massive IT project that the government instigated with a nationwide email/phone database.


The spokesman said changes need to be made to the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 "to ensure that public authorities can continue to obtain and have access to communications data essential for counter-terrorism and investigation of crime purposes".


Sure, that may be the original (appalling) purpose, but just wait until some lowly government employee with a marketing degree gets the idea to start mining data, and selling it to private business.

Just wait until some minimum-wage worker does a dump of database data onto a backup tape or USB flash drive, and then loses it on the way home.

Just wait until the government picks up "suspicious" or "troubling" comments in a phone call, and then diligently turns some of it over to the US Intelligence community (what, you didn't think the UK would keep this to itself, did you?) and some poor bastard is either arrested in the UK and handed over to US authorities, or they wait until that person leaves the UK for America or anywhere else they feel like nabbing them.

And from what I've gathered from the Brits I've talked to, their government taxes the ever loving hell out of them, so I'm sure there will be a new tax imposed on the masses to pay for the nation-wide spy campaign. If Britain thought the number of native citizens leaving the Isles to live abroad was huge before, just wait until something like this kicks in.

At least it's just in a very early preliminary stage, but the idea is out there now.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Yep, it's similar to Google's visitor tracking, but on a much grander scale; think Adwords on the side of your Gmail page is bad, wait until you start getting old-fashioned junk mail advertising adult toys because your 1-900 phone call was logged and subsequently sold to help pay for the massive IT project that the government instigated with a nationwide email/phone database.



Sure, that may be the original (appalling) purpose, but just wait until some lowly government employee with a marketing degree gets the idea to start mining data, and selling it to private business.

Just wait until some minimum-wage worker does a dump of database data onto a backup tape or USB flash drive, and then loses it on the way home.

Just wait until the government picks up "suspicious" or "troubling" comments in a phone call, and then diligently turns some of it over to the US Intelligence community (what, you didn't think the UK would keep this to itself, did you?) and some poor bastard is either arrested in the UK and handed over to US authorities, or they wait until that person leaves the UK for America or anywhere else they feel like nabbing them.

And from what I've gathered from the Brits I've talked to, their government taxes the ever loving hell out of them, so I'm sure there will be a new tax imposed on the masses to pay for the nation-wide spy campaign. If Britain thought the number of native citizens leaving the Isles to live abroad was huge before, just wait until something like this kicks in.

At least it's just in a very early preliminary stage, but the idea is out there now.

x2 on all that but the worst of it is that with the appalling levels of incompetence that the British Government displays with any kind of IT project you can expect the security on the data to be as leaky as hell.

I don't know what's worse a police state or a typically British bumbling incompetent, half-arsed police state run by complete muppets.:roll:

It's what you get with a government system that has been run for decades by Oxbridge arts grads and which is now staffed by lazy, incompetent, soap opera and reality TV-addicted mongs.

You guessed it. I just love the British public sector.