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Dennis G
05-31-2004, 02:12 PM
The Beretta 93R Machine Pistol - An Answer For Today's Police Officers
By: Gabe Suarez

It’s a rare police department today that hasn't dedicated some resources to anti-terrorosm in schools and other public places. Oh, sure, they disguise it with some soft and cuddly name, just like they did with the first Gang Suppression Units, (No GANG unit, 'cause we have no GANG problem), but it is what it is.

Their mission is simply to be there if something happens. But the question arises about how one officer do anything at all when faced with a heavily armed shooter (or two) in a school or shopping mall? This, inspite of the fact that they are no better armed than the traffic enforcement officer.

One agency's school squad asked for better gear after a school shooting in a nearby city. Their chief responded, "Oh, no. School Resource Officers should not have rifles in their cars. What message would that send to our citizens?" The officers have saved his memo in the event that something happens and they get blamed for it.

Tactics also must change. The traditional patrol response to anything out of the ordinary has always been to "contain and call for help". In good consciense, you simply cannot do that in cases like the ones we are discussing, although there are some administrators that would have you do just that regardless of the potential loss of life. No, friends, the mission changes from "run and call for help", to "Take 'em out before they hurt anyone".

I can hear you out there. "But Gabe, how can we do that with only handguns?" Well, you can, but there are better tools that won't offend the brass' sensibilities. Missions like this need a Low-Profile, but High Firepower weapon with the capability for surgical precision. The only tool in the pantheon of weapons that will give that, is the Machine-Pistol.

Extremely popular with some of the Baltic Region Police Forces and Centarl American Teams that we've trained with, the machinepistol has all but been ignored in the USA. A machine pistol is a fully automatic-capable firearm that is based on an existing handgun design (as opposed to an SMG without a stock, such as what the Germans call the MP5K). They may be equipped with detachable shoulder stocks and almost always have a selective fire capability (single shot, burst, or full auto).

Some closed-minded american instructors and rangemasters have decried the MP as "an ingenous answer to a non-existant question", complaining of its uncontrollability and declaring it ill-suited for police duties. Well, all I can say to them is that they need to train a little more with them before announcing such a condemnation of the weapon. Within its niche, I found the MP to be very useful, perhaps more so than some of the more popular submachineguns due to its compact size, appearance as a simple handgun, and, yes, its full-auto capabilty. The Eastern European and Baltic Teams are very good with their MPs, and to suggest that the gun is too much for our feeble "police children" is ridiculous. I know our policemen are at least as good as the Estonians and Latvians.

One very popular MP is based on the ubiquitous Beretta 92F. It is the Beretta Model 93R. The "R" stands for "Raffica" that means automatic burst in Italian, for you linguistically challenged folks.

Its designed for single-shot fire or, at will, in controlled bursts of three rounds. Selection of the desired mode is made by a thumb lever, and the three-round burst limit is
automatically governed by a mechanism located under the right grip.

The fire selector is located on the top left side of the weapon; by positioning the selector on the white dot (C), the pistol is made to fire in single shot. Reloading of the next round is automatic. When the selector is flicked to the three white dots (D), the pistol is ready to operate in controlled bursts of three rounds. Upon the trigger being pulled, the Model 93R will fire one burst of three rounds. To fire the next burst it is necessary to release the trigger and to press it again; individual three-round bursts may thus be fired until the magazine is empty: six, plus one burst of two shots. When burst firing, the gun still shows muzzle climb but the 3 shots can be kept in a humanoid target at 15 meters after some practice. Shots being aligned verticaly. Subsequents shots would certainly go off target, but thats where the 3 shot burst comes in pratically.

The pistol is equipped with a folding fore-grip for better control during burst fire. I found it to be unnecessary if a proper grip is used. When the pistol is combat-ready, the fore-grip should is designed to be lowered and held with the left hand, with the thumb inserted in the front part of the trigger guard. When not in use, the fore-grip can be folded along the frame to make re-holstering in police holsters easier.

For accurate shooting at medium range, the pistol can be fitted with a special metal folding stock that can be attached to grip. The size is almost identical to the 92F model, and most parts are interchangeable, although the slide is slightly larger and heavier.

One can only wonder what the outcome of some of the well-publicized tragedies we've seen recently would have been if a few officers were already on scene "as it happens" and had been trusted enough to be equipped with weapons like the Beretta 93R.

Technical Features:

Calibre: 9mm parabellum(luger)
Method of fire: single shot semi-automatic or three shot burst in full-automatic
Locking system: hinged locking block
Overall lenght: 240mm
Barrel lenght: 156mm (with muzzle brake)
Metal stock lenght: 368mm
Metal stock folded lenght: 195mm
Height: 170mm (with 20 rds magazine)
Width: 37mm
Overal grip widht: 47mm
Weight: 1170gr (with 20 rds magazine)
Metal stock weight: 270gr
Safety: manual blocking the sear, inertial firing pin
Selector: one shot, 3 shot burst
Magazine: staggered, 20 rds
Rate of fire: approx. 1100 rds/min
Sights: front blade, rear V notch
Indicators: chamber loaded indicator

American Patriot
05-31-2004, 02:21 PM
Gabe Suarez knows his stuff.

http://www.warriortalk.com/

Dennis G
05-31-2004, 02:29 PM
http://karim.liefdeis.com/Armory/Beretta-M93R.jpg

looks great

maw
05-31-2004, 02:47 PM
also a convicted felon if i heard correct.

AFG
05-31-2004, 02:53 PM
i fail to see how this would help against an attacker wearing body armor (ala what happened in LA)

UkrainianAmerican
05-31-2004, 03:34 PM
http://karim.liefdeis.com/Armory/Beretta-M93R.jpg

looks great
That foldable thingie is where you put your left hand to control the gun?

usa320
05-31-2004, 03:36 PM
Best way to defeat body armor isnt by getting a different ammo or weapon- its by aiming for the head.

zenmaster
05-31-2004, 04:09 PM
Since when have machine pistols ben known for their precision accuracy? This guy is barking up the wrong tree.

kinghk
05-31-2004, 06:15 PM
Since when have machine pistols ben known for their precision accuracy? This guy is barking up the wrong tree.

I agree. Guns such as this Beretta is only useful for spray'n'pray purposes, and that fits the police in a siviliced society where deaths or injuries to innocent bystanders is politically unacceptable badly. A semi-only MP5 is probably much better. Longer weapon means increased accuracy.

Brozozo
05-31-2004, 06:17 PM
20 rnd mag with 1100 rnd/min rate of fire? Not the best way to deal business IMO.

Kilgor
05-31-2004, 06:47 PM
why not something like the MP7 ?

American Patriot
05-31-2004, 06:52 PM
Idiots.

Everything Gabe Suarez says is the truth. He was dropping perps in shootouts while you were still in your dad's bag.

Hydro
05-31-2004, 07:01 PM
20 rnd mag with 1100 rnd/min rate of fire? Not the best way to deal business IMO.

It's limited to three round burst, much like the US Army M16A2. It's also like the G11, in that it fires the burst at a high rate of fire to keep the shots close together.

Brozozo
05-31-2004, 07:09 PM
20 rnd mag with 1100 rnd/min rate of fire? Not the best way to deal business IMO.

It's limited to three round burst, much like the US Army M16A2. It's also like the G11, in that it fires the burst at a high rate of fire to keep the shots close together.

Yup, I just read up on that after I made my post...

dacanadianbomb
06-01-2004, 03:43 AM
Maybe in the states, I wouldnt want to think about giving this to european cops.They can barely shoot their own sidearm properly, in semi, let alone handle a full-auto.
You have to be a good shot to use that thing, and if your a good enough shot to use it, you can hit your target properly in single .

martinexsquaddie
06-01-2004, 05:17 AM
actually had a play with one of these when handguns were still legal in the uk. bizarelly 3 round burst guns were legal two although the people running the range were suprised we had one :lol:
its a pistol that fires bursts no more range than a pistol and no more power than a pistol. fired like a pistol the rounds tend to rise with the stock you can get a reasonable group but then if your going to have a stock get a fn90 or a mp5 pdw :)
its great for burning through ammo though (ever run into a gunshop in combats shouting we need ammo rofl ).
Its not the latest toys and the black attack shooters make the best shooters.
its the fact they spend 8 hours a day or more on a range turning rounds into empty cases :|

Geezah
06-02-2004, 11:32 AM
Maybe in the states, I wouldnt want to think about giving this to european cops.They can barely shoot their own sidearm properly, in semi, let alone handle a full-auto.
You have to be a good shot to use that thing, and if your a good enough shot to use it, you can hit your target properly in single .

Actually I'm quite confident in the British Armed Police shooting abilities, I think(?) they have to go through a some pretty rigorous training?

dacanadianbomb
06-02-2004, 11:54 AM
Actually looking back I was very unforgiving in my comments and to generalising.
Im sure the cops could handle it fine, I was just letting myself get to biased by local cops here. Sorry if I pissed anyone off.

I still stand by my POV that better aimed shots , are more effective than just sending more shots at the target.

Geezah
06-02-2004, 12:03 PM
I still stand by my POV that better aimed shots , are more effective than just sending more shots at the target.

I agree! :)