Attack of the PC Police in Britain - Episode 23237

[Mu-Meson]

More insanity. This ones from the Telegraph so you folks who always criticize the source can STFU this time. Apparently "freedom of religion" is a hate crime. Unless of course you happen to be talking about spreading Islam.


The evangelists say they were threatened with arrest for committing a "hate crime" and were told they risked being beaten up if they returned. The incident will fuel fears that "no-go areas" for Christians are emerging in British towns and cities, as the Rt Rev Michael Nazir-Ali, the Bishop of Rochester, claimed in The Sunday Telegraph this year.
Arthur Cunningham, 48, and Joseph Abraham, 65, both full-time evangelical ministers, have launched legal action against West Midlands Police, claiming the officer infringed their right to profess their religion.
Mr Abraham said: "I couldn't believe this was happening in Britain. The Bishop of Rochester was criticised by the Church of England recently when he said there were no-go areas in Britain but he was right; there are certainly no-go areas for Christians who want to share the gospel."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2058935/Police-advise-Christian-preachers-to-leave-Muslin-area-of-Birmingham.html

Exit question: When is Britain going to get fed up with their useless political parties and do something about this?

[chuckster]

Was this policy, or just the actions of one un-professional officer? Would Muslim clergymen in a Christian neighborhood have received the same treatment? Either way, it's not good. In response to your poll, I think it really depends on the spirit of the Christian majority of Britons. I'm afraid Britain is not what it used to be and Christian Britains will not stand as firmly for their rights as they once would have.

[Mu-Meson]

Was this policy, or just the actions of one un-professional officer?

You know, it could just be the actions of one officer. However, it seems that every time something like this comes up, that is usually the first thing people say. It seems to me to not be isolated incidents but indicative of a institutional mindset. Perhaps all the "sensitivity training" is having an effect.

[Eoin666]

As soon as you read "A police community support officer (PCSO) interrupted the conversation and began questioning the ministers about their beliefs. They said when the officer realised they were American...."

PCSO are not fully trained coppers, they are civilians in police uniforms to increase manning and help out with a uniformed presence etc etc,

We don't have "christian neighbourhoods" in this country, apart from Belfast and Glasgow (catholic/protestant), nowhere in the UK is divided along religious lines, there are areas of racial or ethnic tension which lack any integration, but not religious division per-se, however, the fact of American evangelists over here preaching, personally I find as reprehensible as any islamic or any other religious nut-jobs preaching their bile. Puritanical evangelists left this country due to a return of liberalism and secularism following the restoration, and we don't want them back now, if you're talking to someone on the street about religion, then fine, but if they were prostletizing, then yeah they should be advised to stop. It would seem the officer didn't fully understand the letter of the law in this case, or either applied it blindly by the book.

[LRPV]

Nice clarification, I too was wondering about the institutional mindset versus individual (perhaps Muslim) cop. Are these community cops badged differently? Is there some way of telling who is a real cop and who is 'community support'?

[Rancid]

"He said we were in a Muslim area and were not allowed to spread our Christian message. He said we were committing a hate crime by telling the youths to leave Islam and said that he was going to take us to the police station."

The betting is that this was a muslim PCSO who has disgraced the police force by his biased tirade against 2 people going about their lawful business.

There are muslim no go areas to white non muslims in the UK, but the Goverment and Police deny this as it would show that they have failed in their Policies and law enforcement.

[Calanen]

Reminds me of this, a bit:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e10_1212343477

Embed fail..curse you Vbulletin..I have beaten the youtube code..I will have my liveleak code!

The 'section 5' he is going on about is section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 (UK). It really says, if someone has sand in the vag and is upset, the cops can arrest the person who made em upset.

5.
Harassment, alarm or distress.
— (1) A person is guilty of an offence if he —
(a)
uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or

(b)
displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,


within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby.

(2) An offence under this section may be committed in a public or a private place, except that no offence is committed where the words or behaviour are used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation is displayed, by a person inside a dwelling and the other person is also inside that or another dwelling.

(3) It is a defence for the accused to prove —
(a)
that he had no reason to believe that there was any person within hearing or sight who was likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress, or

(b)
that he was inside a dwelling and had no reason to believe that the words or behaviour used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation displayed, would be heard or seen by a person outside that or any other dwelling, or

(c)
that his conduct was reasonable.


(4) A constable may arrest a person without warrant if —
(a)
he engages in offensive conduct which [ F2 (http://www.bailii.org/uk/legis/num_act/1986/2236942.html#1365548) a ] constable warns him to stop, and

(b)
he engages in further offensive conduct immediately or shortly after the warning.


(5) In subsection (4) “ offensive conduct ” means conduct the constable reasonably suspects to constitute an offence under this section, and the conduct mentioned in paragraph (a) and the further conduct need not be of the same nature.

(6) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.
Annotations:
Amendments (Textual)
F2 (http://www.bailii.org/uk/legis/num_act/1986/2236942.html#comref-1365548)
S. 5(4)(a): by 1996 c. 59, s. 1 it is provided in s. 5(4)(a) the word "the" shall be amended by being left out the word "a" inserted

[Billy No Mates]

A know-nothing Hobby Bobby over stepping their authority doesnt really seem like much of a story to me .

[Calanen]

A know-nothing Hobby Bobby over stepping their authority doesnt really seem like much of a story to me .

Did you read the Act? They have very wide powers.

[Billy No Mates]

Did you read the Act? They have very wide powers.

They do,but as a rule they don't seem to know what the fvck they are doing,my issue here is not primarily with the act(though i do have issues with it) rather that we are trying to police on the cheap with PCSOs and community wardens,we need more coppers and better trained ones and we might have to spend a bit of money to get them .

[Holycrusader]

I want that officer in my neighbourhood to save me from Jehowa wittness...

[Tokamak]

Nice clarification, I too was wondering about the institutional mindset versus individual (perhaps Muslim) cop. Are these community cops badged differently? Is there some way of telling who is a real cop and who is 'community support'?

Their uniform is totally different and they generally look untidy!.

[Hauser]

Nice clarification, I too was wondering about the institutional mindset versus individual (perhaps Muslim) cop. Are these community cops badged differently? Is there some way of telling who is a real cop and who is 'community support'?

The way to tell the differance is that CSOs have "Community Support Officer" written across their backs, and real police have "Police". Furthermore, CSOs only carry a radio, first aid kit and a notebook, as opposed to handcuffs, baton, cs spray etc..

[meatrabbit]

Very interesting and also sad -

Would it even be possible calling it a hate crime if two muslims would hand out leaflets in a christian neighbourhood?

Wouldn't it even be possible that you could get charged for a hate crime or a rassistic crime if you would stand up against it (like telling them that you don't like their idea of trying to convert people in this area or protest against it) if two muslims would try to convert christians in a christian neighbourhood.

I am not a rassist and I do respect all religions but these questions(!) are running through my mind when I read something like this. I'm not sure what to think about it.

[CMNot]

We don't have "christian neighbourhoods" in this country, apart from Belfast and Glasgow (catholic/protestant), nowhere in the UK is divided along religious lines, there are areas of racial or ethnic tension which lack any integration, but not religious division per-se, however, the fact of American evangelists over here preaching, personally I find as reprehensible as any islamic or any other religious nut-jobs preaching their bile. Puritanical evangelists left this country due to a return of liberalism and secularism following the restoration, and we don't want them back now, if you're talking to someone on the street about religion, then fine, but if they were prostletizing, then yeah they should be advised to stop.

Seconded, top post.

[jameshr4]

WMP are going to retrain the PCSO in question, however we only have one version of events, could it be that the preachers went too far in what they said to try and convert people and cause offense to the local community? It's possible and thats why the PCSO got involved and then made the situation worse not better.

[Adux]

Is it wrong to assume, all this hubbajubba is leading/will lead to the rise of rightwing political parties, please bear that I am not talking about facists.-

[Hollos]

Is it wrong to assume, all this hubbajubba is leading/will lead to the rise of rightwing political parties, please bear that I am not talking about facists.-
ure very right the bnp are making big gains in a lot of areas where the this sort of thing is happening,just to clarify psco r a total waste of time they create more problems than they solve any other Brits remember those 2 children that drowned in that lake and there were 2 psco watching, they were not aloud to save the the children as they were not trained in water rescue total joke, also they don't have the power to arrest just to detain until the real police turn up

[CMNot]

PCSO's are New Labour through-and-through.

We don't necessarily need more police; we do need those we have to be deployed correctly. Any fool can be sat behind a desk writing reports...

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

PCSO's are New Labour through-and-through.

We don't necessarily need more police; we do need those we have to be deployed correctly. Any fool can be sat behind a desk writing reports...The Thatcher government was going to introduce them by another name but there was was a lot of noise from the police so it was dropped.

[Eoin666]

Very interesting and also sad -

Would it even be possible calling it a hate crime if two muslims would hand out leaflets in a christian neighbourhood?

Wouldn't it even be possible that you could get charged for a hate crime or a rassistic crime if you would stand up against it (like telling them that you don't like their idea of trying to convert people in this area or protest against it) if two muslims would try to convert christians in a christian neighbourhood.

I am not a rassist and I do respect all religions but these questions(!) are running through my mind when I read something like this. I'm not sure what to think about it.

Once again mate we don't have christian neighbourhoods any more than muslim, don't believe everything the scum-press print, Brits are pretty laid back over religion (and politics)...yes there are regions with predominantly one racial or ethnic group be it Indian, Pakistani, Irish, West Indian etc etc Coming from the west mids, I can tell you we have some of the best integrated communities in the UK, the only no-go areas I know of are of the dodgy drugs/gun kind where you wouldn't want to park your car or hang around too long, nothing religious, locally in Birmingham/West Mids we now have the largest Sikh gudwara, largest Hindu temple outside of India but the council has put a stop to a large mosque, oh, and one in 10 people is of Irish decent.

The recent racist killing of an asian teenager in Dewsbury as reported initially, gangs of "asians and whites" blah blah, turns out the people arrested were asian muggers who stole his wallet and phone....again the initial reaction of the shi*e press in this country.......asian kid killed=racist killing, white kid killed=simple mugging....all just stirs up more crap and fear instead of waiting for the facts.

Having seen American evangelical preachers and pro-lifer ars*oles, they should be banned from this country just as much as radical muslim preachers who as ever prey (not pray!!) on the weak...Jehova's witnesses are bad enough but at least you can have a good old arguement with them :slap: safe in the knowledge they're not going to blow you up or stone you! Wasn't Billy Grayham or whoever banned some years ago from doing some TV program over here? As for everyone trying to compare it to muslims preaching in a mainly white area (or black, let's keep it equal), no one would bother listening to start with.

So my take for what it's worth, a couple of evagelising preachers in a predominantly asian area, while not actually causing trouble could be stirring up some social unrest (not like the Pope giving a sermon on the Shankill road or anything that severe, but still....) so was asked to move on or stop by the PCSO, whether this then degenerated into a bit of a slanging match who knows. So for American friends, relax, we're not a muslim caliphate just yet, but you keep your own preachers over there if it's all the same

[Calanen]

Once again mate we don't have christian neighbourhoods any more than muslim, don't believe everything the scum-press print


What about Luton - that seems a pretty no go area to me.

Your press also covers up the muslim on white hate crimes, and just says, youths attacked a person today.

Not, a muslim stabbed two orthodox jews...and if it had been the other way around, the muslims would be on the news, dancing, weeping, screaming for justice against the oppressive haters being the jews. But the jews cop it, and you hear nothing.

Two of their orthodox members, who are obviously 'jews' from their apperance stabbed by a muslim. And its not a hate crime. Just a random attack....

http://www.hendontimes.co.uk/display.var.2229409.0.man_charged_over_golders_green_stabbings.php

I cant believe anyone is still fooled by the great whitewash that is going on in the UK. But your post says, at least some people still are.


<<Back to index (http://www.hendontimes.co.uk/index.php)
Man charged over Golders Green stabbings

By Kevin Bradford (kbradford@london.newsquest.co.uk)
A man has been charged following a double knife attack on two Orthodox Jews in Golders Green.

Mohamed Jama Ahmed, 37, of North Circular Road, Cricklewood, was arrested after two stabbings which happened just meters apart in roads off Golders Green Road on Friday.
A Metropolitan Police (http://www.met.police.uk/) spokeswoman said the attacks, which happened at around 6pm, appear to have been random and unprovoked, but were not being treated as faith hate crimes.

Officers were alerted to a 47-year-old man in The Drive who was suffering from stab wounds to his arm and chest.

While at the scene, police were informed that a 43-year-old man had been stabbed in nearby Beverley Gardens.

Both victims were taken to hospital and are said to be in a stable condition.
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Ahmed was arrested on Sunday and charged with two counts of assault involving grievous bodily harm.

He is due to appear at Hendon Magistrates Court today.

9:05am Tuesday 29th April 2008

[Eoin666]

What about Luton - that seems a pretty no go area to me.

Your press also covers up the muslim on white hate crimes, and just says, youths attacked a person today.

Not, a muslim stabbed two orthodox jews...and if it had been the other way around, the muslims would be on the news, dancing, weeping, screaming for justice against the oppressive haters being the jews. But the jews cop it, and you hear nothing.

Two of their orthodox members, who are obviously 'jews' from their apperance stabbed by a muslim. And its not a hate crime. Just a random attack....

http://www.hendontimes.co.uk/display.var.2229409.0.man_charged_over_golders_green_stabbings.php

I cant believe anyone is still fooled by the great whitewash that is going on in the UK. But your post says, at least some people still are.


<<Back to index (http://www.hendontimes.co.uk/index.php)
Man charged over Golders Green stabbings

By Kevin Bradford (kbradford@london.newsquest.co.uk)
A man has been charged following a double knife attack on two Orthodox Jews in Golders Green.

Mohamed Jama Ahmed, 37, of North Circular Road, Cricklewood, was arrested after two stabbings which happened just meters apart in roads off Golders Green Road on Friday.
A Metropolitan Police (http://www.met.police.uk/) spokeswoman said the attacks, which happened at around 6pm, appear to have been random and unprovoked, but were not being treated as faith hate crimes.

Officers were alerted to a 47-year-old man in The Drive who was suffering from stab wounds to his arm and chest.

While at the scene, police were informed that a 43-year-old man had been stabbed in nearby Beverley Gardens.

Both victims were taken to hospital and are said to be in a stable condition.
advertisement.
http://adsadmin.newsquest.co.uk/RealMedia/ads/Creatives/default/empty.gif (http://adsadmin.newsquest.co.uk/RealMedia/ads/click_lx.ads/www.times-series.co.uk/display.var.2229409.0.man_charged_over_golders_green_stabbings.php/1294342707/Frame2/default/empty.gif/33623635326132373437386462323630)

Ahmed was arrested on Sunday and charged with two counts of assault involving grievous bodily harm.

He is due to appear at Hendon Magistrates Court today.

9:05am Tuesday 29th April 2008

Luton, yeah it's a f**kin dump, I lived in Aylesbury when I was in the RAF, most towns are potenitally no go at certain times unless you fancy a glass in the face, that's the nature of alcohol in this country let alone anything else....but parts of London you can't even regard as the same as the rest of the UK :)......I feel like a foreigner ever time I go there,

"Your press also covers up the muslim on white hate crimes, and just says, youths attacked a person today".....I agree with you there to a degree, as I said before a white person is attacked it's a mugging or "gang" related, a NONE white (not just muslim) is attacked the PRESS automatically jump to the conclusion it's race related, they are half the problem along with the good old p.c brigade, they the press will force people into the arms of the right wing. But until the full facts are known you cannot jump to the conclusion that it's always race/religion related