Turkish top court annuls headscarf law

[Clearday-TRForce]

http://www.anayasa.gov.tr/images/loaded/galeri/foto14.jpg


Turkey's Constitutional Court annulled the bill proposing to lift the headscarf ban saying it is an attempt to change nonamendable articles of the Turkish Constitution, the court said in a statement on Thursday. TV channels reported nine members of the court voted for the cancellation of the law and two voted against. The Chairman of the Court said the details of the decision will be included in the reasoning. The decision dealt a big blow to the government of the Islamist-rooted AKP, which is under pressure of a closure case. Turkey's army chief said everybody should respect court decisions. (UPDATED)

"The law of February 9th making constitutional amendments to lift a ban on headscarf at universities has been cancelled based on the constitution's articles no. 2, 4 and 148. The execution of the law has also been stopped", said the Constitution Court in a short statement on Thursday.

Nine members voted in favor of the cancellation of the law and two voted against, including court chairman Hasim Kilic, TV channels and state-run Anatolian Agency reported.

The Court decided to announce its decision in a short statement in order to end the speculations, and the details of the ruling will be included in the reasoning, Kilic said Thursday. He added the reasoning will be released "as soon as possible."

"The speculations made on our Court in the recent months saddened us and therefore we decided to announce the ruling in such way... So we are not going to give any information on the details of the ruling until the reasoning released because of speculations about our members," he told reporters after leaving the court.

Kilic declined to comment possible fallout of the headscarf decision on the closure case against the ruling AKP.

The case is seen as a proxy in the closure case filed against the ruling AKP in March in which the chief prosecutor cited this law as an evidence to close down the party.

Article 2 of the constitution describes Turkey as a "secular and democratic Republic," and Article 4 says the first three articles cannot be amended or even proposed to be amended. Article 148 defines the mandate of the Constitutional Court.

The law of February 9th amended articles 10 (equality before law) and 42 (right and duty of training and education) of the Constitution.Turkey's ruling AKP, with the backing of the nationalist MHP, had passed the bill amending the constitution to lift the headscarf ban in universities in February. Public opinion is divided over the issue and the main opposition CHP and the leftist DSP had challenged the bill in the Constitutional Court.

FIRST REACTIONS

The Turkish president, Abdullah Gul, said this is a legal process and he does not want to make further comments, CNNTurk quoted him as saying.

http://www.showtvnet.com/haber/img/haber/anayasa_mahkemesi_durusma.jpg

Turkey's Chief of General Staff Yasar Buyukanit called everybody to respect the legal decision. "All of us should respect the legal decisions. Turkey is a secular, democratic, social state of law. You cannot interpret those (values). This (ruling) is not an interpretation, but an expression of obvious," he told reporters in Istanbul.

Deputy Prime Minister and Government Spokesman Cemil Cicek said, "We need to see the legal ground for the decision taken," as the first reaction from the government, Turkey's TV channels reported.

ANKA news agency said AKP's high decision making body held an emergency meeting on Thursday night. No statement was made after the meeting.

The deputy leader of the AKP parliamentary group said the court violated the constitution with this ruling. "This decision opens the way of controlling every constitutional amendment that the parliament would want to make," Bekir Bozdag said in a televised statement.

Bozdag declined to comment on the possible fallout of the ruling on the closure case against the AKP, adding that both legal cases are unique.

MHP leader Devlet Bahceli said the decision is not a legal, but a politically motivated one and that it would increase the division on the basis of religious belief in Turkey.

The main opposition CHP welcomed the court's decision. CHP leader Deniz Baykal said the ruling means that constitutional amendments could be analyzed in essence, not just procedurally, if it threatens to violate nonamendable articles of the constitution. Baykal added that the Constitutional Court decision was an important practice of Turkish law.

"I believe those who govern Turkey are obliged to act with the responsibility of not violating the constitution," Baykal said.

"Unfortunately, this principle has been violated numerous times recently and the issue was brought before the court," he said, adding that he hoped Turkey would be governed peacefully and with an understanding that would absorb the Turkish Constitution.

Onur Oymen, a senior lawmaker from the opposition Republican People Party, said the verdict spelled the end to such amendments.

"From now on, no one will be able to attempt to change the constitution," Oymen told NTV television.

"This decision reminds the ruling party what it can and cannot do despite gaining 47 percent of the vote (in the July 22 elections)," Husamettin Cindoruk, former parliamentary speaker, told NTV television. "This decision has set the boundaries and reshaped the state."

Legal experts are divided over the ruling. Some say according to the Turkish Constitution the court can only examine whether the passage of a constitutional amendment was procedurally flawed, it could not pass judgment on its essence.


Hurriyet


Thanks to Constitution Court. woot


regards,
CDTRF

[Karaahmetoglu]

Good!

Ok next time CDTRF I want you to say on the title.

"Constitutional Court bans AKP, and all members inside the party". Ok thanks!


Thanks to Constitution Court, also thanks to Yasar Buyukanit and TSK. wootwootwootwootwoot

[Karaahmetoglu]

AKP gives a harsh response
Deputies of AK Party gave harsh reaction to the decision of the constitutional court. The first secretary Cemil Çiçek pointed the importance of the court's decision. Referring to the connection of the decision to the AK Party case and its possible negative effect on the case, Çiçek stated that these two are very different. AKP group vice chairman said: "it is a violation of the constitutional law." Durdu said: "It is against European law criteria.http://english.sabah.com.tr/A925F5B436BA4395AB974A2B27D01526.html



Ohh please, Turkey is not in European union so till then (hope never happens) STFU! Constitutional law says no to everything these morons do! Not what the Constitutional court does.

See people I am a devout Muslim, but I will be very happy the day AKP gets kicked out!

[LazerLordz]

Thank goodness sense and the rule of law is still alive in Turkey.

[saladin]

It is against European law criteria


what criteria we are talking here? If the memory serves well, EHRC repeatedly ruled that turban (it is not headscarf as commonly interpreted by westerners) rules of Turkish state are valid (I remember two recent rulings, and one dropped appeal by the current president's own wife when she found out that she would loose).

Yeah Turkey is that kind of country. The ruling party's officials sue Turkey as if they are not the rulers after all.

[saladin]

Thank goodness sense and the rule of law is still alive in Turkey.

I don't think it will be for long though.

[Heinemann]

Good news for Turkey :)

Please dont allow what happened to Iran to happen in your nation.

[4X4Driver]

Çiçek stated that these two are very different. AKP group vice chairman said: "it is a violation of the constitutional law." Durdu said: "It is against European law criteria.


what criteria we are talking here? If the memory serves well, EHRC repeatedly ruled that turban (it is not headscarf as commonly interpreted by westerners) rules of Turkish state are valid (I remember two recent rulings, and one dropped appeal by the current president's own wife when she found out that she would loose).

Yeah Turkey is that kind of country. The ruling party's officials sue Turkey as if they are not the rulers after all.

Exactly! These peolpe are so "clever" using the EU when it comes to these things...they've even managed to fool both, the EU instutitions and pro- EU membership liberal intellectuals in the country..but it was the same people which only a year ago wanted to make the adultery a crime in Turkey...and when the EU criticize them for this they, were very angry. Talk about hypocracy.:roll: (we should remind these liberal intellectuals what happened to Iranian intellectuals who sided with the mullahs against the Shah...we didn't hear them criticize the current regime after the revolution...wonder why??)

[4X4Driver]

I don't think it will be for long though.

I agree there is a worrying development that's been advancing since they've come to power (last 6 years) It's been stated that they've managed to place 100 thousend like minded people into the key secular inst. of the country and they're so far in a "sleeping mode". The head of the very same cont.court that came with this last decision has a covered up wife and he voted (along with another one) against the decision.

Many say, it will take years to dedect and clean these people from these instutitions...that's ofcourse if a secular party comes to power and stop these people changing the const. in a way that it'll be impossible to remove them from power.

[Ulytau]

Who knows maybe my lookin will be aganist EU too..Cause my exs gf family was thinking i am Mexican before they met with me ''She was Texan girl (Long Story) ''

Still they tryin to use same words but problem is their funny words are been problem for em and been effective decision of the Top Court..

Cause non effective politicians in their country was love speaking about Turkiye&Turkish Army blah blah blah and some politicians were sukin them..

For myself always saying this ''FUNNY'' problem need to be solved but must be with dialogue between politicians&court etc..Not like that..Especially abusing it start to makes me sick and tired..

We all know about how they honest about religion..When army was making operation some politicians were trying get new rights for them,they were declare themselves as a war veteran ''Ghazi'' (In Turkiye our Ghazis getting some rights free a lil respect to who shed their blood)

Or a bureaucrat who used a worker quota for going to Hajji ''Holy Qaba'' for paying small money also how he can steal one of worker right about it..They going to there for rising or for Allah?

They need to remember we didnt forget and never interest to forget e-mails of Karen Fogg it is looking like still there is many Karen Fogg..

Populism start to makes me sick and tired..

If they really care about religion maybe they need to speak about their wastes..

Gazi Mustafa Kemal Atatürk Pasha answered to them years ago;

When War was continue Gazi Pasha making meeting with teachers about what we gonna do after war cause he knew war never been on the battlefield..

He seeing Women and Men teachers not sitting together he asking to reason after meeting when he learn reason saying to them;

Gentleman..

You dont trust yourself or you dont trust honour of the Turkish Women?

Populism always been bad for the health..They need to remember it.

[Kradder]

Closing down the AKP will create political instability in Turkey, since it's quite a popular Turkish party (at least the Turks I know support it).

Does any of the Turkish members here think that a renewed election will be likely now?

[Clearday-TRForce]

Closing down the AKP will create political instability in Turkey, since it's quite a popular Turkish party (at least the Turks I know support it).

Does any of the Turkish members here think that a renewed election will be likely now?

Closing down the AKP will give a balance to system and tell the future projects a way to fixed regime. Yes, renewed election is on the table if the current party collapsed.

[4X4Driver]

Closing down the AKP will create political instability in Turkey, since it's quite a popular Turkish party (at least the Turks I know support it).

Even if that's so, it'll be nothing compared to what these ppl will turn Turkey into if they're not stopped....so it's worth taking the chance.


Does any of the Turkish members here think that a renewed election will be likely now?

Yes..if they're shut down.

[Kradder]

DIYARBAKIR/ ANKARA - Turkey`s opposition parties expressed their views over the decision of Turkey`s top court to cancel a constitutional amendment lifting the headscarf ban at universities on Thursday.

Speaking to reporters prior to his departure from the southeastern province of Diyarbakir, Deniz Baykal, chairperson of Turkey`s main opposition Republican People`s Party (CHP), said that he hoped no attempts that were in violation of the Constitution would take place from now on.

"I believe those who govern Turkey are obliged to act with the responsibility of not violating the Constitution," Baykal said.
"Unfortunately, this principle has been violated numerous times recently and the issue was brought before the court," he said, adding that he hoped Turkey would be governed peacefully and with an understanding that would absorb the Constitution.

Deputy chairman of the Nationalist Movement Party (MHP) and an MP from Konya Faruk Bal said "everyone must respect the decision of the Constitutional Court. However, we do not agree with the court`s decision on Thursday".

Democratic Left Party (DSP) chairman Zeki Sezer said Turkey was involved in an unnecessary polarization with the discussions on headscarf ban, "I hope common sense will prevail from now on," he added. State Minister & Deputy Prime Minister Cemil Cicek said, "we have to see the reasoned verdict of the Constitutional Court," while commenting on the decision of the Top Court.


So the CHP party is in favor of this step, and the MHP party is not?
Which party will eventually gain more votes in case of renewed elections?

[Clearday-TRForce]

So the CHP party is in favor of this step, and the MHP party is not?
Which party will eventually gain more votes in case of renewed elections?


Voting is not on top issue at table while we are discussing the regime and stability of whole system.

[Paya]

Forgive me, but I can't really fathom how can a decision of an individual to wear a headscarf (btw, what's the name for it?) be a matter for the Constitutional Court to decide on, or even discuss. Way I see it, it's a personal choice.

[Eokboy]

Forgive me, but I can't really fathom how can a decision of an individual to wear a headscarf (btw, what's the name for it?) be a matter for the Constitutional Court to decide on, or even discuss. Way I see it, it's a personal choice.
The headscarf is a symbol of Islam and its oppression of women. An article of this much threat needs to be checked, by rule of law if necessary.

[Paya]

The headscarf is a symbol of Islam and its oppression of women. An article of this much threat needs to be checked, by rule of law if necessary.
Maybe, but Christianity too has been oppressive to women until fairly recently, and there is no country I know of, including Iran, that bans the wearing of, for example, cross necklaces.

Besides, as I understand it, these women can freely wear the headscarf outside University facilities, which, actually makes this law even more baffling. For me, at least.

[Vorian]

Forgive me, but I can't really fathom how can a decision of an individual to wear a headscarf (btw, what's the name for it?) be a matter for the Constitutional Court to decide on, or even discuss. Way I see it, it's a personal choice.

I agree. I can understand the fears of Islamists but a headscarf is not going to destroy the Constitution.

[Ulytau]

I agree. I can understand the fears of Islamists but a headscarf is not going to destroy the Constitution.

Cause its not only about headscarf issue still they cant understand nothing..

When some GREAT?! politicians dont know anything about Turkiye start to blame and seriously INSULT to court...They were totally quiet..

Also some of em love changing laws for only their rights with abusing this issues..Good to see some politicians start to be wise..

And especially start to HATE from their wives..Hard to understand what kind of ambition they have..

[Vorian]

Cause its not only about headscarf issue still they cant understand nothing..

When some GREAT?! politicians dont know anything about Turkiye start to blame and seriously INSULT to court...They were totally quiet..

Also some of em love changing laws for only their rights with abusing this issues..Good to see some politicians start to be wise..

And especially start to HATE from their wives..Hard to understand what kind of ambition they have..

Translation please. Not anyone has watched the issue as close as you. Especially the wife comment, I don't get it.

[Ulytau]

Translation please. Not anyone has watched the issue as close as you. Especially the wife comment, I don't get it.

Mate..

You know about new politicians i think..You know about populism..

Also about their wifes..

When Abdullah Gul been president ''about his character really looking like nice person and really care country'' about his wife when they went to president villa..She spend million of liras from the treasury..When they go to USA a Turkish waiter who livin in the USA fired from his job cause he speak with Turkish Journalists about what they did do in the restaurant..''Still reason was She''

I wont speak about their shopping too.

If they really care about religion ''I can't say anything about really honest people cause i know most of em'' why they never speak about it.. (Truth Allah knows)

For example maybe as a neighbour you remember about MerWe KaWakci issue..She tried to join council with her headscarf..Everyone can see her when she blaming to Turkish Secular Regime but nobody seen her when she speakin about Middle East issues..Isnt it interesting?

They speaking like it been surprise really is it?

For example we seen very much examples about terrorists issues in Europe ''Fehriye Erdal,PKK terrorists etc'' when we been angry about it they saying freedom of the judgment..May i ask WHAT THE HELL IS IT?

Ex-German president was blaming to judgment again..Lets check how honest he is..

Today he is Chairman of the Gazprom in Germany..Two countries paying serious money to Gazprom when a country selling really cheap gas to other country and you can guess which country is it..And which current government signed this pact with Gazprom..

Always saying and said..This problem''I feeling shame when i calling this problem'' need to be solved..But not like that really good to see some politicians start to speak wise..

When i readin foreign news too askin to myself what kind of country i livin in cause some of em tryin to show this issue as a chaos..

Also they blaming to army about this issues ''Headscarf'' my personal idea they never watch Graduation Ceremony of the War Academies and they never interest to see student mothers..

PS : Streets and the girls not like that too..They are always side by side..Mostly seeing girls who wearin mini skirt when her friend wearin headscarf etc..Maybe we men need to STFU about solving problem but some politicians need to forget populism too..

[deli_dumrul]

Forgive me, but I can't really fathom how can a decision of an individual to wear a headscarf (btw, what's the name for it?) be a matter for the Constitutional Court to decide on, or even discuss. Way I see it, it's a personal choice.

We call it the turban.

Consider this case. You are a Jew or Christian living in Turkey. You end up in a court room against a Muslim Turk. And a female judge enters the room with a headscarf. That woman can not represent a secular court, do you understand? Nor would you be comfortable with the decision of this court.

Allowing these people to enter the higher education system will eventually lead to situations like this.

I am not even getting into more important issues such as their religious believes interfering with scientific work (human evolution, big bang, etc).

For instance, Vatican is one of the supporters of the Big Bang (singularity) theory. A universe becoming out of nothing; it fits the bill. Which is unacceptable to certain scientists. Now that, they are proposing a different idea that addresses this issue, guess what the Vatican thinks. Islamic institutions (and their strict followers) are restricted with similar preconceptions.

Well, long story short, without knowledge of the events that took place between the conclusion WWI and establishment of the Republic, it is really hard for outsiders to understand why we are so picky about these people.

[Vassago]

This incident concerns the constitutional court because 2. topic of the Turkish constitution indicates that the Turkey is a secular republic, and the 4. topic indicates that first three topics are not subject to be changed or even to be discussed to change. Allowing the headscarf (turban) in the universities would make a great damage on the secularity of the Turkey, because as the priministar has admitted the headscarf has become a political symbol rather than a piece of the religion and the political thought that it represents is "Islamic Turkey".

Let me try to explain it like this, think about a christian village and this village has a web site or a great screen in the middle of the town center, showing the list of the people, contributing and not contributing to the sunday prayers in the church. As a not contributing christian would you be comfortable about this list?

[Clearday-TRForce]

Look at this event only of a simple freedom right to wear headscarf is to look at the whole scene as a blind and/or not to look carefully. The issue is not a freedom to wear something. The issue is to understand the next stages after taking the first one behalf of demanders of religionous figures. We have to be more and more careful and to see all sneaky manoeuvres.

They will be patient.We have to be patient too. They will be foxy,slow acter but solid, we have to be too..

- This decision had been taken by Constitutional Court as "11 against 0" at 10 years ago.
- This decision had been taken by Constitutional Court as "10 against 1" at 5 years ago.
- This decision has been taken by Constitutional Court as "9 against 2" now

later? if they change the whole system like to take decision as "4 against 7", what will we do? it will be a purely disaster for secular system if it is happened and also a disaster for world future,unstability for region... Because Turkey is a stronghold against wahabism,fabricated religion rules and mollas but a protector of true religion,a welfare player with its unique structure

[4X4Driver]

Forgive me, but I can't really fathom how can a decision of an individual to wear a headscarf (btw, what's the name for it?) be a matter for the Constitutional Court to decide on, or even discuss. Way I see it, it's a personal choice.


Both, Turkish and non Turkish members who understands this ruling, has given good answers to explain it further, but deli dumrul explains it with an examples.




Consider this case. You are a Jew or Christian living in Turkey. You end up in a court room against a Muslim Turk. And a female judge enters the room with a headscarf. That woman can not represent a secular court, do you understand? Nor would you be comfortable with the decision of this court. Allowing these people to enter the higher education system will eventually lead to situations like this.


..and here we see his example being realized/practiced in another country with the same reasons as Turkish courst's reasons. The difference here is that Turkish court foresees the problem and tries to stop it going as far as it did in Danmark, by not allowing these ppl with this mission into the universities.


International support for Danish headscarf ban

By The Copenhagen Post
Published 21.05.08 00:00
The Danish prohibition on judges wearing headscarves has been met with support from two international judge associations

'A citizen who enters a courtroom should feel secure standing before a judge who symbolises society's laws with the complete neutrality and impartiality that it encompasses,

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=134584&highlight=headscarf



I agree. I can understand the fears of Islamists but a headscarf is not going to destroy the Constitution.

If the constitution in question is based on secularism, any law being pushed in the parliament (in this case "headscarf" issue as explained above) that undermines these laws, will destroy the secular notion of this constitution....and when that happens, the path to religion based state (or strongly influenced by religion) state gets established.