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Havoc345
06-09-2008, 05:20 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/09/clinton.supporters/index.html

By Rebecca Sinderbrand
CNN



WASHINGTON (CNN) -- While Sen. Hillary Clinton was endorsing Sen. Barack Obama, some of those weighing in on her campaign Web site were less willing to concede.
Sen. Hillary Clinton has endorsed Sen. Barack Obama, but some supporters are not willing to embrace him.



http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/base_skins/baseplate/corner_wire_BL.gif
As Clinton wrapped up her remarks Saturday in Washington with a plea for supporters to work "as hard for Barack Obama as you have for me," many were posting messages saying they would never vote for the presumptive Democratic nominee. A few even called on her backers to visit Sen. John McCain's campaign Web site.



"I love her and will vote for her in 2012, but it's McCain all the way now," wrote one within moments of the New York senator's address.
Whether that sort of statement signals a defection to the presumptive Republican (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/U_S_Republican_Party_Politics) nominee, a voter less likely to make it to the polls on Election Day or just a bit of low-grade, post-primary grumbling -- it's the sort of sentiment that makes for a nagging, low-grade anxiety among nervous Democrats and brings a gleam to the eye of McCain.
As Democratic (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/u_s_democratic_party_politics) leaders met last month and decided to seat Florida and Michigan at half strength at the convention, angry Clinton supporters who had backed her plea for the seating of full delegations from both states began to chant, "Let's go, McCain!"
And as Clinton's presidential bid wound down, some of her loudest supporters began insisting they would consider voting for McCain if she were not the Democratic nominee. A newly released CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll found that if Obama does not select Clinton as his running mate, 22 percent of her supporters would stay home this fall -- and another 17 percent would vote for McCain.

"That's just one estimate of the 'Clinton factor,' and it may not be an accurate predictor since it piles several hypotheticals on top of each other and asks people to guess their state of mind five months from now," said Keating Holland, CNN's polling director.
"Nonetheless, it does indicate that unmotivated Clinton supporters may be a bigger risk to Obama than defections from the Clinton camp to McCain."
The numbers haven't gone unnoticed at McCain campaign headquarters in Arlington, Virginia. In the days since Obama effectively claimed the Democratic nomination, the senator from Arizona's campaign has aggressively reached out to Clinton supporters -- women and blue-collar voters who were the strongest supporters of her presidential bid.
A few hours after her speech -- which was free of attacks on Obama's fall opponent -- McCain aide Michael Goldfarb wrote on the campaign's official blog that "there is a genuine affection for her here at McCain HQ. During her speech there was no small amount of pleading with the TV: 'Don't do it, you can still win!' "
"Sen. Clinton has really grown on us over here in Crystal City over the past few months," wrote Goldfarb, calling her an "impressive candidate" who "inspired a generation of women" but "fell victim to a vast left-wing conspiracy that resented her generally centrist foreign policy views."
And one of the first posts on the newly launched blog was a video of Abba's "Take a Chance on Me" under the headline, "Take a Chance on McCain." Wrote Goldfarb: "Attention disaffected Hillary supporters, John McCain is a huge Abba fan. Seriously.''
McCain's maverick reputation has always translated into significant support from independent voters, but the diminished appeal of the GOP brand this year may translate into a weaker showing. Despite emotions still raw from the bruising Democratic primary, an appeal to Clinton voters could be a tough sell for the Republican.
But McCain and his campaign have made bold moves in recent weeks to distance the senator from President Bush and the Republican Party, and redirect the focus to his independent image -- essential in his effort to reach disaffected Clinton voters.
McCain adviser Doug Holtz-Eakin blasted the president's handling of the economy, and campaign manager Rick Davis said the battered image of the national Republican Party made for an uphill climb for its presidential nominee.
McCain aides see an opportunity in Obama's struggle to connect with white working-class voters.
The campaign has assembled focus groups in Democratic areas where Obama struggled this spring to gauge McCain's potential appeal among, and best approach to, this demographic -- particularly those most angered by Clinton's loss. A campaign tour directed at these voters also is being planned.
The day after Obama claimed the nomination, McCain said, "There's a lot of Sen. Clinton supporters who would support me because of their belief that Sen. Obama does not have the experience or the knowledge or the judgment to address this nation's national security challenges."
McCain was more effusive in his praise of Clinton at a Louisiana campaign event Wednesday as her campaign revealed she would be ending her run in a matter of days. "As the father of three daughters, I owe her a debt for inspiring millions of women to believe there is no opportunity in this great country beyond their reach. I am proud to call her my friend," he said.
Sen. Joe Lieberman of Connecticut -- who has taken on increasingly high profile campaign roles on McCain's behalf -- announced Thursday that he was heading a new grass-roots organization, Citizens for McCain, with a direct appeal to Clinton's disappointed supporters.
In a message sent to the Arizonan's supporters after news broke that Clinton was suspending her run, the Democrat-turned-independent highlighted McCain's "very good working relationship with Sen. Clinton."
"The phones at the campaign headquarters have been ringing with disaffected Democrats calling to say they believe Sen. McCain has the experience, judgment, and bipartisanship necessary to lead our country in these difficult times," Lieberman wrote. "Many of these supporters are former supporters of Sen. Clinton."
He called on supporters to "reach out to Americans who are not currently involved in the campaign. Will you help us by recruiting your friends, family, and co-workers who may not consider themselves members of the Republican Party and ask them to join the Citizens for McCain organization?"
But can McCain really win over these loyal Democrats? History isn't on his side.
In the modern era, the pledge of mass defections by disappointed primary voters isn't rare -- but it rarely has a major influence on election results. The number of voters who identify with a given party may shift dramatically over time -- but among that self-selected group, loyalty tends to be remarkably high, with greater than nine in 10 usually supporting their party's presidential nominee, according to exit polling over the past few presidential cycles.
In 2004, despite similar anger from supporters of unsuccessful presidential candidate Howard Dean, 8 percent of Democrats supported Bush over Sen. John Kerry.
And on most major issues, McCain's positions are completely at odds with those of the Democratic working class and women voters he's hoping to reach: in favor of the Iraq war and Bush's tax cuts, against abortion rights and health care policies favored by many Democrats.
Obama advisers say they think the passion of the primary season will soon fade, and the party will unite around the senator from Illinois. But they've moved quickly to cement party unity: Last week, a thank you message -- and a plea for visitors to "show your support" for Clinton -- appeared on Obama's Web site.

WarriorMonk
06-09-2008, 07:24 PM
talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face...

AGE-Ranger
06-09-2008, 07:49 PM
I think it says something about what many people are basing their votes on and it isn't the issues. If they cant get the woman in, they will go Republican? Do they not have principles?

Hollis
06-09-2008, 07:52 PM
I think it says something about what many people are basing their votes on and it isn't the issues. If they cant get the woman in, they will go Republican? Do they not have principles?

This is the dumbest election ever.


Probably has a lot more to do with conflict from the primary, personal interests and emotions. Supporters on both side could have hit below the belt. Also McCain is considered to be a Liberal by a lot of people, especially hard core conservatives.

AGE-Ranger
06-09-2008, 08:02 PM
Also McCain is considered to be a Liberal by a lot of people, especially hard core conservatives.

I don't consider myself a hard core conservative, but that is one of the main reason I don't like McCain. He tries to hard to pander to the left, while ignoring the people who could actually get him in office.

[WDW]Megaraptor
06-09-2008, 08:40 PM
Also McCain is considered to be a Liberal by a lot of people, especially hard core conservatives.

Yes. People don't realize how divided the Republican party is this election...

Hollis
06-09-2008, 08:50 PM
The other aspect to elect McCain, than means for D's if McCain is elected the 2012 election would be wide open for Hillary. If Obama is elected, 2012 will be Obama Vs some R.

Calanen
06-09-2008, 08:53 PM
Probably has a lot more to do with conflict from the primary, personal interests and emotions. Supporters on both side could have hit below the belt. Also McCain is considered to be a Liberal by a lot of people, especially hard core conservatives.

He is. But a lot of people would vote for Ronald McDonald to avoid Obama. It's a matter of Anybody-but-Obama now.

Thor
06-09-2008, 08:58 PM
I think it says something about what many people are basing their votes on and it isn't the issues. If they cant get the woman in, they will go Republican? Do they not have principles?
I don't see why it should be based on issues rather than person, when you're in fact electing the most powerful person on the planet.

But as Hollis pointed out, there are strategic motives as well.

Hollis
06-09-2008, 09:00 PM
He is. But a lot of people would vote for Ronald McDonald to avoid Obama. It's a matter of Anybody-but-Obama now.


That is the hard part to read, at least for me right now. There are some very anti-Obama people, but the chatter for hard core conservatives seems more anti-McCain centered, maybe a different group of conservatives.

Probably when November gets nearer, that anti-McCain chatter may disappear in to a pro McCain panic.

Calanen
06-09-2008, 09:05 PM
That is the hard part to read, at least for me right now. There are some very anti-Obama people, but the chatter for hard core conservatives seems more anti-McCain centered, maybe a different group of conservatives.

Probably when November gets nearer, that anti-McCain chatter may disappear in to a pro McCain panic.

It's too far out now I think, I just can't see the same people that voted Bush in twice, are going to vote in Obama.

I saw a real cheap shot from the Daily KOS leftwing moonbats about the colour of McCain's teeth. The reason they are like that is because he has fake teeth. The NVA knocked his teeth out while he was a POW.

The problem for McCain is, he is not as good a speaker as Obama. Obama is very polished, but light on substance. He also has some dangerously silly views about singing Kumbaya with people like Hamas and Hizballah and Iran. Obama also seems to constantly be getting out the Windex to scrub away his past associations with Left Wing Uglies.

Calanen
06-09-2008, 09:07 PM
Obama's foreign policy musings always make me think of this David Zucker ad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/7h3GPc_yMCE

szr
06-09-2008, 09:11 PM
I don't consider myself a hard core conservative, but that is one of the main reason I don't like McCain. He tries to hard to pander to the left, while ignoring the people who could actually get him in office.
The people who can get McCain elected are independents and both parties' moderates, not the periphery right. The most conservative sections of the Republican party won't turn out for McCain like they did for Bush.

Obama has strong support from the fringe left like Bush had strong support from ultra-conservatives in 2000, which often makes independents and moderates wary of such candidates.

Hollis
06-09-2008, 09:11 PM
The problem for McCain is, he is not as good a speaker as Obama. Obama is very polished, but light on substance. He also has some dangerously silly views about singing Kumbaya with people like Hamas and Hizballah and Iran. Obama also seems to constantly be getting out the Windex to scrub away his past associations with Left Wing Uglies.

Obama does have a good presentation, I can imagine what it will be like after he buffed and polished it more in the coming years. The only thing the "loonies" will do is loose votes for Obama. They are the friends who hope the other side has.

evanfitz
06-09-2008, 09:13 PM
Probably has a lot more to do with conflict from the primary, personal interests and emotions. Supporters on both side could have hit below the belt. Also McCain is considered to be a Liberal by a lot of people, especially hard core conservatives.


X2

Clinton and Barack played a pretty vicious campaign that really split the democratic party. Everyone is still fired up from the primaries (which was more like a presidential election of its own.).

My prediction is many of the turned democrats will eventually sway towards Obama once the general election heats up, When emotions start flying. More so if Hillary is the V.P.

Thor
06-09-2008, 09:19 PM
I watched some Obama biography a few days ago, and one interesting fact is that everytime he got elected into office in the past it was because of some major scandal on the opposing side. Except for one time when the republicans threw in a black republican against him, but that guy was on the other hand really uncharismatic and practically unelectable.


It's too far out now I think, I just can't see the same people that voted Bush in twice, are going to vote in Obama.
The Evangelicals will for sure not go down that path.


I saw a real cheap shot from the Daily KOS leftwing moonbats about the colour of McCain's teeth. The reason they are like that is because he has fake teeth. The NVA knocked his teeth out while he was a POW.
A low blow. It wouldn't hurt him though to have it fixed.


The problem for McCain is, he is not as good a speaker as Obama.
Obama is not as great in debates as he is in his often teleprompted speeches. Quite a bit of stuttering, but he's still good.

Hollis
06-09-2008, 09:21 PM
X2

More so if Hillary is the V.P.


That would definitely add to the suspense of this election. The anti-Hillary vote is perceived to be very strong. A number of people who would vote for Obama over McCain just might not if she on the ticket as VP.

She would also mobilize the all or most the conservatives Republicans, Independents, etc to back McCain.

Or really unite the D's and Moderates. Not sure on that one.

Wildgoose
06-09-2008, 09:23 PM
After all this, just tore up my Democratic party card and mailed the pieces back to the local party office. Registering as independent. Obama is the left-wing's wet dream. Reluctantly voting for McCain on this one. At least I can wake up in the morning and look myself in the mirror.

We need a viable third party...bad.

Invisigoth
06-09-2008, 09:46 PM
The problem for McCain is, he is not as good a speaker as Obama. Obama is very polished, but light on substance.

I think McCain is equally light when it comes to issues, at least when JoLi is not whispering in his ear. *g*

The guy served his country and all but I don't think he has spent much time expanding his intellectual horizon after he came back and went straight into politics. He's no Bush but I find him swerving dangerously around the issues at times, i.e. giving general answers that a 10-year old with a textbook can give you rather than being able to address specifics of certain issues.

I guess that's a general politician problem though. :roll:

[WDW]Megaraptor
06-09-2008, 09:48 PM
The Evangelicals will for sure not go down that path.

You'd be surprised. I think one of the main storylines of this election will be the rise of the Christian Left.


The problem for McCain is, he is not as good a speaker as Obama. Obama is very polished, but light on substance.

And this lack of substance is why Obama is going to be eaten alive in the debates. McCain seems like the type of guy who has been doing formal debate since middle school. Those 60 years of experience make me think we could be in for something akin to the Cheney-Edwards debate of 2004.

Bia
06-09-2008, 10:23 PM
The problem for McCain is, he is not as good a speaker as Obama. Obama is very polished, but light on substance.
For me...and many others this matters not.
McCain has character.... good character compared to many of his peers.
Also...to many including myself he instills a sense of pride few leaders in my lifetime seem to possess.
I surely hope he's my next President.....about time we had some pride here.

Hollis
06-09-2008, 10:32 PM
For me...and many others this matters not.
McCain has character.... good character compared to many of his peers.
Also...to many including myself he instills a sense of pride few leaders in my lifetime seem to possess.
I surely hope he's my next President.....about time we had some pride here.


I think a lot of positive information about McCain's character has not been brought to light. Some of it is starting to circulate, like his son.

[WDW]Megaraptor
06-09-2008, 11:24 PM
I think a lot of positive information about McCain's character has not been brought to light. Some of it is starting to circulate, like his son.

Props to McCain for not campaigning on what he did in Vietnam 40 years ago a la John Kerry. More props for not campaigning on what his kids are doing now.

AGE-Ranger
06-09-2008, 11:26 PM
For me...and many others this matters not.
McCain has character.... good character compared to many of his peers.
Also...to many including myself he instills a sense of pride few leaders in my lifetime seem to possess.
I surely hope he's my next President.....about time we had some pride here.

Sometimes you post things that I completely disagree with, but you hit the nail on the head in this case.

I don't agree with McCain on a lot of issues, but the man is about as American as you can get. I've got nothing but respect for the man.

bugkill
06-10-2008, 12:38 PM
Sometimes you post things that I completely disagree with, but you hit the nail on the head in this case.

I don't agree with McCain on a lot of issues, but the man is about as American as you can get. I've got nothing but respect for the man.

I feel the same way about him, but he has made a serious mistake with changing his stance about the tax cuts. He called it irresponsible and wrong, but now that he is running for president he is OK with it? I don't know about that one. Also, McCain is too old (said it himself years ago that he would be for a run in '08) and it would be better to have someone that would have a chance to do 8 years, because then all McCain would be is a 4 yr. lame duck republican president with a democrat government.

Also, McCain talks tough about Iran's president making statements about Israel, but then he was stupid enough to make a joke singing "Bomb Bomb Iran", not very smart to do that. I like McCain, but he should have won in 2000 and I just do not think he can be effective as president at this point. Obama looks to be able to do more right now and it will come down to who he selects in key positions within his cabinet. It will be interesting to see him and McCain face off in the debates because they both have very different policies.

I'm pretty sure that the republicans would have hoped that Clinton had won because she would have energized their base. Obama does not really do that and McCain definitely does not do it at this point. McCain has to be able to energize the republicans and unless something happens with Obama, it just won't happen. The George Bush noose is very tight around EVERY republican's neck this year and in Nov., the chair will be kicked out from under their feet.

[WDW]Megaraptor
06-10-2008, 01:52 PM
Also, McCain talks tough about Iran's president making statements about Israel, but then he was stupid enough to make a joke singing "Bomb Bomb Iran", not very smart to do that.

Heh. That's tame compared to some of the things he's said in the past. Like his infamous "Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her dad is Janet Reno."

Bringer of Greater Things
06-11-2008, 01:50 AM
I have a hard time seeing a bunch of union-supporting, gay-marriage-tolerating, pro-choice, pro-gun control, anti-war, pro-universal-healthcare-loving former democrats voting for McCain.
And if McCain starts tailoring his policies to appeal to Clinton supporters, he'll see his evangelical support dry up fast.


Also


I think a lot of positive information about McCain's character has not been brought to light. Some of it is starting to circulate, like his son.
Agreed. If McCain is elected, he will be the first sitting president to have a son in active duty since Roosevelt.

[WDW]Megaraptor
06-11-2008, 09:53 AM
I have a hard time seeing a bunch of union-supporting, gay-marriage-tolerating, pro-choice, pro-gun control, anti-war, pro-universal-healthcare-loving former democrats voting for McCain.
And if McCain starts tailoring his policies to appeal to Clinton supporters, he'll see his evangelical support dry up fast.

What about conservative union-supporting, anti-gay-marriage, moderately pro-choice or pro-life, pro-gun, pro-military democrats who were democrats because their dad was a democrat and their granddad was a democrat way back when the democratic party stood for something completely different than it does now voting for McCain? It's not much of a stretch. My state (North Carolina) has 2.5 million registered democrats to 1.5 million registered republicans and it's voted republican in every presidential election since 1976.