The Decline Of An American Export

[Kampfbaer]

THE DECLINE OF AN AMERICAN EXPORT
Western Democracy Loses Ground to Autocrats
By Erich Follath

It's the best of all bad forms of government, but for many it's no longer good enough. Today democracy leaves lots of people cold, and in Asia and Africa, many prefer autocratic systems. Damaged by Bush, Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib, few are interested in the model of democracy exported by the United States.

Once upon a time, there was a king who was called the "Precious Ruler of the Dragon People." The monarch loved his people and his people loved him in return. One day he announced that he was going to descend from the throne and voluntarily give up his position of absolute power. He said the time had come for his people to govern themselves and that this would make the country's people better able to realize their philosophy of "Gross National Happiness."


PHOTO GALLERY: THE TROUBLE WITH DEMOCRACY
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The people were unsure. They thought everything in their little kingdom had been just fine the way it was. On the other hand, they didn't want to go against the trend of the times or against the wishes of their king. So they went ahead and founded political parties. Despite their continued skepticism with regard to democracy, they obediently went to the polling stations to cast their ballots. Voter turnout was around 80 percent. An overwhelming majority of the electorate voted for the Peace and Prosperity Party. You see, it can be done, the king observed, delighted with the results. He said he was looking forward to his own disempowerment and to taking part in parliamentary debates.

This may sound like a fairy tale or a story based on a figure in ancient history, but it actually happened, and not all that long ago. On March 24, Bhutan -- a small country high in the Himalayas, nestled between India, China, and Tibet -- was transformed by order of its king, Jigme Khesar Namgyel Wangchuck, from an absolute monarchy into a democratically legitimated constitutional monarchy. Nine years ago television was legalized in this remote kingdom with its majestic mountain peaks, Buddhist monasteries and population of 680,000. Now democracy has been introduced through what has been a carefully planned, top-down procedure -- like almost everything here in the "Land of the Thunder Dragon," perched atop the world's tallest mountain range.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,558832,00.html

[Laworkerbee]

Today democracy leaves lots of people cold, and in Asia and Africa, many prefer autocratic systems. Damaged by Bush, Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib, few are interested in the model of democracy exported by the United States.

As if Bush, Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib have anything to do with democracy, this article is pathetic.

[ed316]

many prefer autocratic systems

Really? .

[SoCalEMT]

Spiegel For the WIN!!!,
I would challenge anybody to go to any of the third (or post) wave democracies, and argue that a return to the good old days is the right path to chart. The world is democratizing. Natan Sharanski was wrong, however, in his thesis that democracies will not fight each-other. Power to the demos does not mean love of the United States. No doubt we will be fighting popularly elected, but virulently anti-American polities in the future. Der Spiegel, idoten.

SoCalEMT

[vryhpyammoadded]

Democracy almost always temporarily transforms towards autocracy once a realignment of the global political paradigm begins. It’s the typical expedient method of preparation for the coming perceived fight as everyone hordes their resources, builds military and does the “I know that you are (unreasonable, selfish) but what am I” dance.

The League of Nat… eerr ah, United Nations is becoming irrelevant as everyone attempts to paint each other into the “warmonger who started this mess so we can all justify defending ourselves” corner.
Face it people, humanity is going to have a heck of a time dodging this habitual bullet.

[Indiana Jones]

Der Spiegel, idoten.

SoCalEMT
That`s a most serious own goal mate... (even though you are not quite wrong)

[SoCalEMT]

@Indy,
Understood, it was more of a middle finger to the publication and it's editorial staff (virtually of course). And, it's called a safety, not an "owngoal", whatever in God's name that is:)

SoCalEMT

[Rakki]

Democracy only works if everyone is on the same general wavelength.
Freedom of speech however allows a lot of free to air broadcasting.
Over time, you get so many different channels that people end up having very few channels in common.
When push comes to shove, the stress lines develop into full out cracks and the whole thing falls apart.

When that happens, you need to do something autocratic to make sure everyone is on the same wavelengths again....

[Calanen]

Democracy only works if everyone is on the same general wavelength.
....

Democracy requires reasonably advanced and educated people for it to work properly. If not, its a joke. With less advanced populations, only the strongman dictatorship can function on a stable basis.

Oh, as for people choosing autocracy, that's kind of an oxymoron isnt it?

[Rakki]

Democracy requires reasonably advanced and educated people for it to work properly. If not, its a joke. With less advanced populations, only the strongman dictatorship can function on a stable basis.

Oh, as for people choosing autocracy, that's kind of an oxymoron isnt it?

"Advanced" and "educated", from another perspective, is just people who have gone an extensive process of mental conditioning. That is, they've been taught to think and behave in certain ways.

Your average tribal village for example may operate much like a democracy - some guy is chosen by the council of elders to be the next wise man/chief because everyone thinks he's the best man to lead the tribe.

With regards to "choosing autocracy", an example would be declaring war on an enemy and than mobilizing everyone. All the young people are then subjected to military training/mental conditioning, and the society itself is conditioned to think in certain ways (e.g. destroy the Axis of Evil, reject cowardice, reject communism etc etc.).

[Lambert58]

Your implication being that the "AMERICAN EXPORT" is democracy?

Democracy isn't an American invention. You should probably take a history class, for starters.

Once you've completed that class, diploma in hand, you can then rejoin the mp.net masses.

After your juice-n-cookies graduation from world history, then we'll start teaching you about how every other form of government OTHER THAN DEMOCRACY has totally FAILED THE PEOPLE that lived in the subject country.

FAILED = executed, persecuted, etc etc.

There is only democracy (or, in our case, representative republics... close enough) and the rest of you idiots on Earth that think your caliphate, dictatorship (yes, russians, I'm looking at you)) is good... you just haven't lived in a country where you can:

1) say any vile thing you desire against your government and not be shot or spend the rest of you life in prison
2) own pretty much any firearm you want (3'd world countries notwithstanding)
3) write an article in a newspaper or an online blog that paints your country's leader as a chimp
4) vote however you want without influence from the state (you russians still looking?)

I'm pretty goddam sick of the hate america fkers on this site. Most of you america haters post from countries that have fewer freedoms than cellblock D. I tolerate it because I figure you're so ignorant (blind from birth syndrome) that you just don't know any better.

Here's a newslflash, and I'm sure I speak for a lot of my fellow Americans: If you don't like democracy, then stfu and go back to serving your local dictator and please die in the socialst poverty that spawned you.

[KET]

^^^^ Well said!

[Calanen]

Here's a newslflash, and I'm sure I speak for a lot of my fellow Americans: If you don't like democracy, then stfu and go back to serving your local dictator and please die in the socialst poverty that spawned you.


We have democracy here.

[BugHunt]

Autocracies are only benign in a narrow set of circumstances - not least having a savey rational benign leader!


Gotta say i truely think Bhutan has something with its Gross National Happiness...as opposed to GDP slant.



From the article a interesting paragraph -



Many of the idealized basic rights formulated by Thomas Jefferson were never implemented, having been tempered by the realities of his era, which were far from ideal. Despite assurances to the contrary, Jefferson had no intention whatsoever of abolishing slavery. It was much too profitable a business and as a landowner he owned slaves himself.
The United States had a long and difficult road ahead of it in the question of slavery. In general Americans gained their constitutional freedoms by fighting for them, and this impetus came from the people themselves. It was not until the mid-1960s that the civil rights movement led by Martin Luther King attained equal rights for African Americans. Democracy involves the gradual acquisition of rights through a laborious process that requires patience and perseverance. Democracy does not provide automatic solutions and nor does it offer a recipe for instant happiness.


Damn good article actually -



If democracy continues to be a construct imposed from the outside it will end up calling itself into question. All too often the West has contented itself with mere compliance with some empty formulistic criteria. In Nigeria, for instance, "parties" were created in accordance with the Western example.
On paper, at least, it looked wonderfully democratic. These parties, however, were not places where policies were formulated and political decision-making was carried out. They were merely facades for the interests of corrupt politicians and businessmen. Under circumstances of this kind elections can be absolutely counterproductive for the development of the countries in question, particularly if they are divided up into tribal areas and the parties are dominated by specific ethnic groups. Elections in Nigeria and Kenya have tended to exacerbate ethnic conflicts instead of helping to promote national reconciliation. Sustainable democracy is based on more than just elections. It requires a functioning civil society that has confidence in government institutions, is willing to work on the basis of compromise and respects the law. Stated more simply, unless you have rule of law and competent politicians free of corruption, you don't have democracy.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

Democracy requires reasonably advanced and educated people for it to work properly. If not, its a joke. With less advanced populations, only the strongman dictatorship can function on a stable basis.

Agreed, but with one modification "Democracy requires reasonably advanced and educated people who aren't divided into ethnic or religious factions for it to work properly."


Oh, as for people choosing autocracy, that's kind of an oxymoron isnt it?
Clever :)

[BugHunt]

who aren't divided into ethnic or religious factions for it to work properly."



Wrong.

As the article im sure youve just fully read, said -




The People's Republic of China and democratic India, the two most populous countries in the world, are among its most successful economic powers, the Chinese dragon currently a little more than the Indian elephant. There are a number of factors that would seem to indicate that India's democracy could have a chance of winning out over China's dictatorship in the long run.




Indians vote incompetent governments out of office. They don't tolerate restrictions on their civil liberties. They insist on legal security. Amartya Sen, a professor of economics and Nobel laureate from West Bengal who is no stranger to criticism of Indian government policies, noted that it is not autocracy but rather democratic forms of government that help prevent extremely negative economic trends. He cited as an example the fact that there has never been a major famine in a democracy. Politicians seeking re-election cannot afford to allow major social disasters to occur. Sen, who teaches at Harvard, added that democracy contributes towards national unity, pointing out that India is ethnically much less homogeneous than China while the latter has significantly greater trouble dealing with its minorities. He suggested that Delhi, which leads in the area of elite training, and Beijing, which has an outstanding record in satisfying material and knowledge-related needs, could learn from each other.
Optimists say that democratic societies have proven to be more stable, also economically, than their authoritarian counterparts. They are still better at achieving a more equal society. As a result, there is no long-term reason to feel discouraged. Democracy is perhaps only in a temporary downturn, a transitory crisis. We would doubtless have more success in exporting democracy if this were to be done more carefully and without insisting that it always is the right model.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

Wrong.

As the article im sure youve just fully read, said -

So you're saying that India has no trouble along religious or ethnic lines? All is great between Hidus and Muslims?

And the problems in Iraq have nothing to do with ethnic, ideological, or sectarian differences? Sunnis, Shia, Baathists, all just getting along fine till Al Qaida showed up?

I beg to differ, and am prepared to produce links if necessary, or are you relying primarily on the article?

[ren0312]

Wrong.

As the article im sure youve just fully read, said -

I find it interesting that this article did not mention India's 4 decades of stagnation after independence, where growth was limited to a "Hindu" growth rate of 3-4% per year because of the policies of Fabian socialism that India adopted, if you would compare where South Korea or Singapore was in comparison to India in the 1960's, and where are they now, you would know what I am talking about, India's economic achievements since independence in 1947 up until the late 1980's, or lack thereoff, only look impressive if you compare them with outright failed states such as Somalia, Afghanistan, and the DRC, against the East Asian tiger economies like Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea, it is practically a basket case.

[ren0312]

Wrong.

As the article im sure youve just fully read, said -

If you would use economic growth rates as a criteria for judging the competence of a government then India had 4 straight decades of incompetent government after independence from British colonial rule in 1947, which the Indian people somehow failed to vote out.

[Rakki]

That's because "democracy", or more accurately, "politics", in India, is a rich man's game. You've got land owners and business owners who basically own the arses of every farmer and worker within a radius of 50km - and they all vote as their "feudal lord" wants them too. With little education or communication (no Internet for example), they didn't really have much of a clue as to what happens beyond the next village.

The government in Delhi could be the most incompetent and corrupt government on Earth but who's to know out in the countryside?

[vryhpyammoadded]

Democracy begins to wane when extreme polarization of the various factions’ causes said factions to legislate gifts to themselves, empowering and entrenching their position in government at the cost of the other factions liberties. If you’ve studied what a banana republic is, you’d see the process demonstrated.

Politicians, governments, become more and more autocratic as they amass political and economic power to break the deadlock and overpower the opposition. From this you end up with a political power pendulum swinging faction to faction, ever increasing in amplitude as each faction gains power and assaults the others liberties until eventually its so bad that the loosing side grabs their guns and runs for the hills while the other hunts them down to finally crush the opposition. It’s all a sort of philosophical genocide but really it all comes down to who gets to make and take the money. It’s simply a naturally occurring side effect of Republics.

Currently the US appears to the world edging towards Autocracy because that philosophical pendulum is swinging wildly as politicians and their party factions vie for dominance in the current polarizing dispute of “Give me your faction’s money so I can buy more votes with entitlement bribes to my constituents to stop you taking money from my faction to buy votes with entitlement bribes to your constituents to stop me”

Politicians do one thing well and that’s find the cash to keep their constituents happy and when confronted with legislative resistance or worse paralysis, such as the US experience these past near thirty years, they seek out and leverage every manner shape and form of loophole to do so. That’s their job as they see it. This naturally creates an incessant nibbling at liberties as each faction attempts to enact legislation and regulations to coerce the others into coughing up cash they don’t want to give.

As long as a nation is divided in some way, and Republics always are to some degree, this adversarial relationship always occurs and always nibbles at the rights of its people to eventually mutate into Autocracy benefiting one faction.

“Bush damaged American Democracy, but it is healing”

I disagree; the American people (politicians included) have been damaging their democracy during their near 100 year standoff trying to enslave the production of each others various factions. And, the Democracy is not healing, the divide is growing. The divisiveness during the Clinton and Bush administrations and the one being set up for the coming administration are prime examples of this. I somewhat agree with Ingleheart i.e. happy people make democracy not the other way around. With that said…

The politicians trying to survive as a whole though may be attempting to throw the left faction a pragmatic authoritarian bone “al la Lee Kuan Yew” but that’s what they’ve done off and on for a century, apply the toss the bone Band-Aids to the hungry masses and always accumulate more power. I say the damage is about complete since the last power reset in 1862 and there will be no healing without a terrible accounting.

Anyway, I say that it is this divide in the American people, which the politicos leverage, that are sending these waves of discontent and uneasiness concerning Western Values throughout the world.

Have you ever seen the movie the “Lion in winter”? I see the Clinton and Bush era’s mega corruption swinging the factional poles much like Henry and Eleanor feuding over the Aquitaine and everyone else’s lives simply suffering from their arguments. Growing world autocracy is simply the sly Phillip making his own moves and Plantagenet’s court bracing itself, should the fallout of royal divorce occur.

[little icebear]

As if Bush, Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib have anything to do with democracy

I´m sorry, sir, I just had to quote this piece. I know, I´m dragging it out of its context, but it made me laugh so hard. p-)

[Laworkerbee]

I'm here all week buddy :)