Who would have ever thought this would happen in a Western Democracy?

[chuckster]

I was reading this article on the Real Clear Policics website about Canadian "Human Rights Commissions" and was aghast of some of the things that are going on in that counrty. For instance:

Rev. Stephen Boisson "has now been ordered to desist from communicating his views on this subject "in newspapers, by email, on the radio, in public speeches, or on the Internet" so long as he should live. He has been ordered to pay compensation to Darren Lund, the anti-Christian activist in question, and further to make a public recantation of beliefs he still holds".

"Meanwhile, Fr Alphonse de Valk, editor of the magazine Catholic Insight, is being prosecuted by a gay rights activist in Edmonton, for having upheld both sides of the Catholic teaching on homo******ity in the pages of his magazine over more than a decade: that homo****** behaviour is sinful, but that we are nevertheless to love the sinner."

"Christians have been hauled before the country's "human rights" tribunals, and ordered to abandon their beliefs, pay out to complainants, stage public recantations, submit to indoctrination, etc. -- with little to no media coverage. Alas, there are more cases (they are multiplying quickly), and the "human rights" commissars are not the only source of state persecution".

Link to the article: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/06/deafening_silence.html

All this is related to another situation. Consider the case of Journalist Mark Steyn. According to a National Review article:

"The article in question was adapted from Steyn’s recent book America Alone, which argues that Western society may be irrevocably altered — and not for the better — by unassimilated Muslim immigration. It’s no surprise that this thesis is controversial, probably in part because Steyn makes his points so well. But the real threat to tolerance here is the CIC, which would have the state impose penalties on those whose writings it disagrees with".

Link to this article:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=M2E3ZTVhNjhlMDY0MzM2NjNlYTE3YzQ3MzU0ODZjYjY=

I have made from this what I think is the very reasonable conclusion that Canada's so called "Human Rights Commissions" have, instead of protecting so called human rights, have actually been institutions for taking away human rights.

Even if you are a non-Canadian Westerner like me, surely you can see there is a lesson in this for all. This is an example of the creeping totalatariansim we can all suffer if we are not mindful of our rights to freedom of speech.

[Laworkerbee]

"Christians have been hauled before the country's "human rights" tribunals, and ordered to abandon their beliefs, pay out to complainants, stage public recantations, submit to indoctrination, etc. -- with little to no media coverage. Alas, there are more cases (they are multiplying quickly), and the "human rights" commissars are not the only source of state persecution".

If such things are truly happening north of the border those Christians need to harden up and tell the state where to shove it.

[Steaks]

Canada is not a theocracy.

[Adux]

If such things are truly happening north of the border those Christians need to harden up and tell the state where to shove it.

One of the biggest worries I have, his rise of right in other religions to counter islamic mushrooms, and their use of western government and ideals against their own host.

Will we go back to pre-second world war outlook? it would be such a blow to mankind, which is why I believe Islamic fundamentalism has to cut out now, before it gets out of hand, and retaliation really starts

[Steaks]

There is a very close correlation: the more developed the society, the lower the intensity of religious belief. The United States, alone in the studies I have seen, is completely off the chart, with far higher religious commitment than predicted by level of development. Canada is somewhat off the chart in the same direction. You can find some statistics and discussion in a study by Walter Dean Burnham, a very well-known and respected political scientists, in Ferguson and Rogers, eds., Hidden Election.
As for “fundamentalism,” if we are using the term in a narrow technical sense, then I suppose one could say that the US is perhaps the only fundamentalist country, since the concept was invented here, by American Protestants, about a century ago, to distinguish themselves from “liberal Protestants.” All other uses are metaphoric, analogic, and highly subjective. That’s true in the press, journals of opinion, and most of scholarship. It is often used to refer to extreme religious belief, sometimes to militant religious belief. In any event, there cannot be research into the question, but there could be research into specific beliefs: belief in creationism (in the US, about almost 50%—about a quarter believe in evolution, and most of the rest are not sure or lean towards creationism), belief in the devil (in the US, 70%), etc. I don’t know of comparative studies on this (which would require translation into other belief systems), but it’s generally assumed that one would have to go very far from the industrial societies to find comparable results.

[Lau]

I have seen far more outrageous things going on in other "western democracies"...

This is noting in comparison.

But never mind that.



"Christians have been hauled before the country's "human rights" tribunals, and ordered to abandon their beliefs, pay out to complainants, stage public recantations, submit to indoctrination, etc.

Are you sure? "abandon their beliefs". How exactly do they force them to do this?

[Bia]

Who would have ever thought...


LOL
Religious freaks need to keep their mantra to themselves.... this wouldnt be a problem.
They only have themselves to blame.

[Lambert58]

LOL
Religious freaks need to keep their mantra to themselves.... this wouldnt be a problem.
They only have themselves to blame.

So freedom of expression is ok for everyone, except people who believe something different than you? Nice.

Your post is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've read here in a long, long time.

[chuckster]

LOL
Religious freaks need to keep their mantra to themselves.... this wouldnt be a problem.
They only have themselves to blame.

I'm afraid the Liberal Elite, who are behind so called 'Human Rights Commissions' define a Religious Freak to be anyone who believe in Spiritualism over Humanism.

[La8pv]

LOL
Religious freaks need to keep their mantra to themselves.... this wouldnt be a problem.
They only have themselves to blame.

Even though I really don't like religion and its preaching I would not want to ban it.
Usually no one listens to religious freaks, at least not here. If you say something like "the gays are sinful and will go to hell", people here would just flinch and ignore him or laugh. (thank god for our secular society:-)


If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. ~Noam Chomsky

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. ~Voltaire

[Lau]

Even though I really don't like religion and its preaching I would not want to ban it.
Usually no one listens to religious freaks, at least not here. If you say something like "the gays are sinful and will go to hell", people here would just flinch and ignore him or laugh. (thank god for our secular society:-)



I couldnt agree more!

Let the religious freaks call gay people sinful, and gay people religious people freaks... rofl

/jk

I truly agree with spineshank00

[Calanen]

LOL
Religious freaks need to keep their mantra to themselves.... this wouldnt be a problem.
They only have themselves to blame.

I bet no muslims are hauled before this commission, and the islamic religion has far more abhorrent views about homo******s than christianity. Christianity says its wrong, the islamic religion says homo******s have to die..and Iran and Saudi Arabia put that into practice.

[Holycrusader]

I bet no muslims are hauled before this commission, and the islamic religion has far more abhorrent views about homo******s than christianity. Christianity says its wrong, the islamic religion says homo******s have to die..and Iran and Saudi Arabia put that into practice.

In Canada?

[Calanen]

In Canada?

Yes, I bet no muslims are brought before this leftie HRC in Canada. Only Christians who say they are against homo******ity, when Muslims have far more strident views about the same topic.

And thats because being a muslims is PC, alternative and cool for the left. Being a christian is not.

[Creampuff]

Hey guys, lets not forget the ramblings of President Bush (THE RIGHT OF THE POLITICAL SCALE) in the aftermath of 9/11 "THE EVIL AXIS" if one subscribes to evil surely there is an opposite? Tho entirely up to the individuals interpretation.

[Calanen]

Hey guys, lets not forget the ramblings of President Bush (THE RIGHT OF THE POLITICAL SCALE) in the aftermath of 9/11 "THE EVIL AXIS" if one subscribes to evil surely there is an opposite? Tho entirely up to the individuals interpretation.

Put down the beer. Time for bed.

[Lau]

Put down the beer. Time for bed.

Goodnight then.

Sleep well...

[delio]

I'm not a fan of 'fire and brimstone' Christianity, but this stuff sounds pretty freaky.






Are you sure? "abandon their beliefs". How exactly do they force them to do this?

per the article he quoted,..



Rev. Stephen Boisson "has now been ordered to desist from communicating his views on this subject "in newspapers, by email, on the radio, in public speeches, or on the Internet" so long as he should live. He has been ordered to pay compensation to Darren Lund, the anti-Christian activist in question, and further to make a public recantation of beliefs he still holds".

[Lau]

I'm not a fan of 'fire and brimstone' Christianity, but this stuff sounds pretty freaky



per the article he quoted,..


Rev. Stephen Boisson "has now been ordered to desist from communicating his views on this subject "in newspapers, by email, on the radio, in public speeches, or on the Internet" so long as he should live. He has been ordered to pay compensation to Darren Lund, the anti-Christian activist in question, and further to make a public recantation of beliefs he still holds".

Should have paid more attention to that part.

Thanks for the heads up.

One should be allowed to communicate any view he or she may have, as long as it is not encouraging hate or violence against certain groups.

That's my opinion anyway..

[Mastermind]

As I have written in these forums many times in the past...Western civilization is facing its most dangerous enemy since the Crusades. Until people realize we truly are involved in a religous war, not a silly "War on Terror"....which is much more like "The War on Drugs" or the "War on Cancer" than any kind of real war.

Westerners think this is a fight for human dignity and equality (what ever that means)...and the Jihadists fully understand it is in reality a blood soaked War for Global Domination.

Westerners have come to the fight with "love" and "understanding" and the Jihadists have come with bomb vests and neck saws.

Nothing will save the West from total domination by the blood takers except a harsh and deadly dose of reality...9/11 was just not big enough or cold blooded enough.

Think about that. It's quite chilling.

[Lau]

Westerners have come to the fight with "love" and "understanding" and the Jihadists have come with bomb vests and neck saws.


What? Where exactly did we come with 'love' and 'understanding'?

[Mastermind]

Although I think the recent decision by the Supreme Court of the United States handing U.S. constitutional rights to partisan terrorists speaks for itself, the Western main stream media, political leftists, and lazy minded individuals have created a fantasy atmosphere that has placed the Jihadists at a level of moral equivalency.

Rabid dogs do not negotiate, they do not parlay. Yet, for every act of wanton murder and indiscriminate killing the Jihadists perform, the Western social conscience embodied by these weaklings within seems willing to find excuses and constantly shouts to the rest of us to tolerate this behavior while constantly criticizing the smallest acts in resistance and retaliation (I cite the recent shooting of a Koran by a US soldier and the overwhelmingly pathetic and mewling response by western leaders as a case example. I also cite the Islamic Cartoon fiasco from the Netherlands as another))

The stated goal of the Muslim extremist horde is to completely dominate all human life on this planet and force it to conform to draconian Islam. The Western civilization is now incapable of presenting a viable front of resistance.

I believe the Jihadists fully understand this deadly weakness and will continue to capitalize on it. By the time the West realizes the abject danger it is facing, I believe it will be too late for the West to do anything about it without resorting to medieval methods themselves.

I doubt very seriously that any western civilized government will ever be capable of taking such measures, even for self preservation. The conscience burden would just be too great to bear in the aftermath of such action.

The present politically correct “think-mode” is an extraordinarily and practically unprecedented social mind set that serves the entire civilized world on a silver platter to our mortal enemies.

Only a few outcomes are thus possible. Our culture and civilization will be slowly submerged by Islam through accelerated immigration of Muslim culture and continued protective laws that oppress every effort by Westerners to resist it….OR, we will find ourselves economically and militarily overwhelmed by the Muslim expansion of ever more Islamic states. Slow or rapid death…either way is still death of a culture.

If we ultimately resist as a nation…which I doubt will ever be possible…we will be forced to commit acts of eradication against radical Islam…for that is the only way radical Islam will be defeated. We will not have the luxurious resources we have squandered on the present police action….that is rebuilding Islamic societies to a modern level.

The one major trump card the Islamists hold over us is their willingness to sacrifice their entire populations to their cause. We will never be able to exact their price for failure…the price in human lives is far beyond what Western civilizations are willing to contemplate. The outcome is thus mathematically predictable.

In other words…better to go out and buy your prayer rug now than wait for the rush.

[Calanen]

The stated goal of the Muslim extremist horde is to completely dominate all human life on this planet and force it to conform to draconian Islam. The Western civilization is now incapable of presenting a viable front of resistance.


Its not just the extremist hoard. The tenets of islam for 1300 years have been to spread the religion through conquest. There are extremists who blow things up. But there are also those who are islamic and live within our societies, that want to take us over through the stealth jihad. And perhaps they are more dangerous than the terrorists, because, we do not know where they are.

Older article, but looks at the Muslim Brotherhood of America, which has its goal taking over western societies through the stealth jihad.


Brotherhood members emphasize that they follow the laws of the nations in which they operate. They stress that they do not believe in overthrowing the U.S. government, but rather that they want as many people as possible to convert to Islam so that one day--perhaps generations from now--a majority of Americans will support a society governed by Islamic law. Muslims make up less than 3 percent of the U.S. population, but estimates of their number vary widely from 2 million to 7 million.



http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/specials/chi-0409190261sep19,1,3910166.story?coll=chi-news-hed

[Mr. Bunny]

To a similar extent, there has been talk of rescinding the non-profit charter for churches who say that homo******ity is a sin. Which according to the Bible it is, so is drunkenness and whole slew of other things. The argument is that the pastor is becoming a political activist when he talks about homo******ity at the pulpit.

On the whole I agree with Mastermind and Calenan. It seems that since the founding of Islam there has been a we will conquer you with force mindset and then force you to live under our rules. It seems that the very tenants of Islam command this.

[Laworkerbee]

Rev. Stephen Boisson "has now been ordered to desist from communicating his views on this subject "in newspapers, by email, on the radio, in public speeches, or on the Internet" so long as he should live. He has been ordered to pay compensation to Darren Lund, the anti-Christian activist in question, and further to make a public recantation of beliefs he still holds".

This is the perfect opportunity for this Christian to become a martyr, he should tell them all to go **** themselves.

I'm not religious but I find the idea of recanting ones beliefs to fulfill a court order outrageous, thats something worth fighting over.

[The Balkan]

As I have written in these forums many times in the past...Western civilization is facing its most dangerous enemy since the Crusades. Until people realize we truly are involved in a religous war, not a silly "War on Terror"....which is much more like "The War on Drugs" or the "War on Cancer" than any kind of real war.

Westerners think this is a fight for human dignity and equality (what ever that means)...and the Jihadists fully understand it is in reality a blood soaked War for Global Domination.

Westerners have come to the fight with "love" and "understanding" and the Jihadists have come with bomb vests and neck saws.

Nothing will save the West from total domination by the blood takers except a harsh and deadly dose of reality...9/11 was just not big enough or cold blooded enough.

Think about that. It's quite chilling.

Ok so since it's a war on the religion, how exactly do you win? Are you gonna kill every Muslim person on Earth?

And since when do Americans fight with 'love' and 'understanding'? WHere the hell do you see love for Muslim people here in North America? That's some sappy ass **** lol. They fight with guns and bombs like anyone else, just even better.

[brainplay]

And since when do Americans fight with 'love' and 'understanding'? WHere the hell do you see love for Muslim people here in North America? That's some sappy ass **** lol. They fight with guns and bombs like anyone else, just even better.

I believe that he's talking about the way that Americans with their constant generous behavior have a tendency to bend over backwards for people of different cultures and religions. While someone can point to the Iraq war and claim we are anti-muslim I can point to hundreds of thousands of examples of Americans trying to accomodate American muslims, buddhists, hindu's, and even wiccans.

This however does not apply to many other countries especially muslim countries where it is forbidden under strict penalties (including death in some) to debate, proselyte, or hold church services other than muslim.

Unfortunately, thanks to that generosity many extremists are infiltrating what were once peaceful muslim establishments and preaching their garbage. Thanks to our liberal media and the need to turn jihadism into something mainstream and normal, many of the younger generation of muslims are starting to find it appealing as its starting to become the new "kewl kid muslim thing to do".

We don't accept this in other religions and yet due to the amount of attention the muslim world is getting we are beginning to accept it from them as something "cultural". I mean wtf?!

[Mastermind]

"Love and understanding " is what is represented via the left here in the USA...I have already cited two examples of this kind of mentality...Here are a few more...the Abu Ghraib prison scandal excited a massive debate here regarding how the USA should treat these animals who saw off heads and blow up children. Sure the debate was originally politically motivated to embarrass the Bush Admin...but, the end result was to empower the attitude within the political elite leftists that monsters hold some kind of moral equivalency...the same is true over the Guantanamo prisoners...forcing guards to handle the Korans with cotton gloves and to actually be forced to bow and speak reverently toward prisoners who would not hesitate in the least to murder every living American. The level of "understanding" that must be exhibited toward these mortal enemies is ridiculous and expands a mind set that destroys our will to fight. The Islamists taken prisoner deserve nothing but to be treated like the animals they are.

Love for these people is expressed via the trillion dollars the U.S. tax payer has been coerced into supplying for the attempts by our misguided U.S. leaders to rehabilitate the nations of Iraq and Afghanistan and to bring them into at least the 20th century. It is a total waste of money...you can never re-habilitate that which has never been habilitated in the first place.

Observing the practice these human museum pieces have of annually publically slaughtering animals in the streets and drenching their towns and cities with blood in the name of their god is abhorrent and disgusting to western values....to observe them stoning young girls to death and sawing off the heads of the unfortunate persons they take prisoner is also abhorrent to the extreme.

Yet, we think if we can pave streets and install sewer lines and bring in fresh drinking water these barbarians will somehow stop their cult of blood and worship of death. The left and libs express their love for our enemies in a belief they will someday recognize our right to co-exist on this planet with them...and never giving a glance to the harsh reality they will never accept us as equal human beings. They would deny us the very air we breath for our very existence is an offense to Islam.
Yet, when the Islamists come to power over us, they will begin a slaughter of innocents the like of which has never been exhibited on this Earth before.

AS for dropping bombs and such that too is another way we try to avoid the unavoidable. We will drop a $750,000.00 precision guided monition to destroy a ten dollar mud hut with two Islamists inside…to do all we can to reduce the potential for collateral damage and killing “innocent” people…when in truth, we should be carpet bombing the hell out them as examples to what happens to people who support such creatures.

So far more than seven thousand Americans and a great many coalition people have died to do what we can to pull the cancerous growth of Jihadists from the populations of “good Muslims” with the least possible damage. All we have managed to achieve is to get snide and stupid responses from those within our own society who insist we are the bad guys…we deserved 9/11…we deserve to die for what we have done to these poor folk. That line is so much bull siht!

These people demand our cessation of life as we know it…and they demand to be our masters….and then they would demand we convert to their antiquated and blood drenched religion…or be put to death in the most cruel and bloody way possible. They do not hesitate to use every possible means to achieve their goals. And any person who thinks they are correct in their endeavor deserves to have them as masters. And anyone who thinks the West is wrong for defending itself, even in these meager ways we have thus far exhibited, is a loose nut who will also deserve the Islamists as masters.

As for slaughtering all Muslims...no...that is not my postion or belief. But, if Islam does not reject the stated goal of oppressing all life on this planet to the will of Islam, then we will be forced to acclet the unacceptable...Convert to Islam or die, or do what is necessary to survive and prevent that.

Both are unacceptable....just that one is slightly more acceptable than the other.

[Adux]

Oh great, I need to find a place in this war.

[Calanen]

Ok so since it's a war on the religion, how exactly do you win? Are you gonna kill every Muslim person on Earth?



No. I don't care (and I suspect many agree with me) what religion you practice, and what religious dictatorship muslims want to set up in their own countries. But if muslims want to live in the west, they need to:

1. Abandon all movements towards jihad against western governments, and particularly their own governments in the west;

2. Abandon any and all attempts to islamasize the west through making continual demands for special treatment, facilities, exemptions based on religion;

3. Deal with the problem of terrorists within their own community, by properly and honestly facing up to that problem rather than continually blaming the west for their conduct or asking to ignore it or saying 'there are extremist christians, buddhists, etc'. This huge problem is within the islamic community. No other.

4. Stop crying 'islamaphobia' whenever that community is deserving of criticism.

5. Stop the incessant Al Taqiyya and kitman sleight of hand like we are all morons. Regrettably,for now, many in the west *are* morons in their cursory examination of the issues. But the people in the west will not be fooled, for much longer.

[Henry's Fork]

^Thats a nice dream Cal.

But you have a better chance of turning lead into gold, than getting Islam to face facts.

Sooner or later its all going to boil over, tollerance toward their midevil ways can only last so long.

[Mr. Bunny]

I agree. The fact that muslims are asking to be treated differently based on their religion in the U.S. is a bunch of B.S. if they want to live in America then they need to conform to our standards of living. We don't care if they make their women wear Burkhas, if that is what she wants to do. I don't even care if they want to arrange the marriage of their daughters and sons, if that is what the children consent to. I do take exception to the fact that they want to move to America and take their rules and laws with them. Rules and laws that are draconian in nature and completely against what this nation was founded upon.

[Power_serj]

Canada is not a theocracy.
That does not mean it has to be Atheist and take away peoples' freedom of speech, and freedom of religion. In the US, the KKK has freedom of speech. It does not mean Americans or the American government support them; it means that everyone has the same rights, regardless of your beliefs. If the US, for example, took away the KKK freedom of speech, or freedom to assemble, then where is the line drawn? If they can take away the KKKs freedoms, then [for example] they can take away the NRAs freedom of speech and assembly, right? Taking away such freedoms sets a scary new precedent.

[chuckster]

^Thats a nice dream Cal.

But you have a better chance of turning lead into gold, than getting Islam to face facts.

Sooner or later its all going to boil over, tollerance toward their midevil ways can only last so long.

I agree with what you are saying. I would not say that too loudly if I were you. You may end up being dragged before a "Human Rights Counsel".

[Calanen]

I agree with what you are saying. I would not say that too loudly if I were you. You may end up being dragged before a "Human Rights Counsel".

Bring it on baby. I'd like to do the talk show circuit.

[Calanen]

^Thats a nice dream Cal.

But you have a better chance of turning lead into gold, than getting Islam to face facts.

Sooner or later its all going to boil over, tollerance toward their midevil ways can only last so long.

We've already seen that in Australia, a couple of times now.