British secret services make a second big blunder within 4 days

[Afro-European]

By RAPHAEL G. SATTER | Associated Press Writer
3:50 PM CDT, June 14, 2008
LONDON - A second batch of secret government files has been found on a train, this time detailing Britain's efforts to tackle terrorism financing, the drugs trade and money-laundering, a British newspaper said Saturday.
The Independent on Sunday, in a preview made available late Saturday, said the files were found on a London-bound train on Wednesday, the same day classified documents on al-Qaida and Iraq were handed to the British Broadcasting Corp.
The BBC said those documents, also left on a train and stamped "UK Top Secret," carried assessments of al-Qaida's vulnerabilities and the capabilities of Iraq's security forces.
The newspaper said the papers were given to it, that it had returned the latest documents and would not be publishing any of the details they carried.It was not immediately clear where the documents came from or which government body was responsible for their security.
Britain's Cabinet Office, which coordinates policy across various government departments, did not immediately return a call seeking comment late Saturday. Neither did the country's Treasury.
London's Metropolitan Police said they were not investigating the incident.
The British government has suffered a series of highly embarrassing security breaches, including the theft of an unencrypted computer carrying information on 600,000 prospective military recruits from a recruitment officer's car.
But recent incidents were dwarfed by the admission, in November, that tax officials lost computer discs containing information -- including bank records -- for 25 million people, nearly half the country's inhabitants

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-britain-lost-documents,0,260404.story
What's up with repeatedly incidents? It looks like the fifth column within those services are very busy these days.

[Lov3ll]

It's idiots who constantly leave sensitive data on trains or in their cars and just forget seriously how f**king stupid do you have to be to leave a top secret document on a train?
I'm amazed they haven't sorted some rules out even if it means banning people from backing up or taking such documents to start with. :cantbeli:

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

It's idiots who constantly leave sensitive data on trains or in their cars and just forget seriously how f**king stupid do you have to be to leave a top secret document on a train?
I'm amazed they haven't sorted some rules out even if it means banning people from backing up or taking such documents to start with. :cantbeli:

This is why you see guys in movies handcuffing their briefcases to their wrist when they contain classified intel.

Maybe they should make that SOP in real life...

[Alexandr]

hmm,is that MI-5?!!!same old MI-5,comparing to wich both CIA & KGB where kindergarden toys?!!
i bet,John Le Carre feels kinda bad today.

[Britboy]

Alexandr, domestic security services are different to foreign intelligence services.

But yes, this is bad skills.

[Alexandr]

Alexandr, domestic security services are different to foreign intelligence services.



" left on a train and stamped "UK Top Secret," carried assessments of al-Qaida's vulnerabilities and the capabilities of Iraq's security forces"

how "domestic" that is? :roll:

[Lov3ll]

" left on a train and stamped "UK Top Secret," carried assessments of al-Qaida's vulnerabilities and the capabilities of Iraq's security forces"

how "domestic" that is? :roll:

It was probably MI6(spys on your lot) who made the statment you quoted as apposed to MI5 (spies on us) p-)

[Connaught Ranger]

I think this is being done on purpose by some disgruntled employees of the Intelligence service with an axe to grind.

Time for them to be straightened up and a prison sentence given for their stupidity,

why is the information being allowed to be carried around so freely with no accountability???

[BugHunt]

It's idiots who constantly leave sensitive data on trains or in their cars and just forget seriously how f**king stupid do you have to be to leave a top secret document on a train?
I'm amazed they haven't sorted some rules out even if it means banning people from backing up or taking such documents to start with. :cantbeli:


That IS infact the rules.

The red folder left on train shouldnt even have left the building...

[Afro-European]

-Thoroughly screen everyone that has access to classified intel.
-Not allow anyone(whoever he may be) to leave the building with sensitive intel may help.There must be something within the services when two sensitive documents land on streets within 3-4 days.

[Alexandr]

It was probably MI6(spys on your lot) who made the statment you quoted as apposed to MI5 (spies on us) p-)

oh,ok,sorry i meant MI6 offcourse,forgot that separation about spying on them and us :)

[wotsnext]

How about leaving miss-information on a train.....Is that possible?

[deagle]

it was stamped "UK top secret" ??

[Afro-European]

it was stamped "UK top secret" ??
Yes it was.

[AmandlaEwetu]

call me paranoid but how come the lost files always go straight to the press for the front page,disinformation or unofficial "leaking"

[Afro-European]

call me paranoid but how come the lost files always go straight to the press for the front page,disinformation or unofficial "leaking"
Unofficial 'leakin'? Why would Mi5 ambarrass itself this way?

[khukuri]

call me paranoid but how come the lost files always go straight to the press for the front page,disinformation or unofficial "leaking"

Now thats what Im thinking of

[especial]

Unofficial 'leakin'? Why would Mi5 ambarrass itself this way?
To make it appear as though there is a serious problem with Mi5. So the public will be upset and begin to either give more funds to Mi5 or force the resignation of senior generals. So that the people responsible can get into the power positions.

[oldsoak]

That IS infact the rules.

The red folder left on train shouldnt even have left the building...

You can take classified stuff from one location to another for briefings or as a courier. Normally the process of having to sign forms galore for accountable documents should concentrate the minds a bit.
Perhaps the (mis)information that was meant to fall into the wrong hands didnt, so they tried again.

[Britboy]

To make it appear as though there is a serious problem with Mi5. So the public will be upset and begin to either give more funds to Mi5 or force the resignation of senior generals. So that the people responsible can get into the power positions.

Would an individual really go to these lengths just to climb the greasy pole? Especially with the odds stacked against them ref being found out and dealt with?

Can I make a guess and ask if you are from a country in the CIS especial?
The Militsiya does have 'Generals', right?

Regards
BB

[pascalywood]

[quote=Connaught Ranger;3320286]I think this is being done on purpose by some disgruntled employees of the Intelligence service with an axe to grind.

Time for them to be straightened up and a prison sentence given for their stupidity,

why is the information being allowed to be carried around so freely with no accountability???[/quote

i also think it is intentional. twice in 4 days? it can hardly be a coincidence

[especial]

Would an individual really go to these lengths just to climb the greasy pole? Especially with the odds stacked against them ref being found out and dealt with? yes because things are not what they seem. It isn't just some low level employee working alone. he or she has the help of some superiors who are telling them what to do and how to do it.


Can I make a guess and ask if you are from a country in the CIS especial?
The Militsiya does have 'Generals', right?

Regards
BB
especial=special in mexican, thats right I am mexicanp-) let the hating begin?

[Britboy]

No hating from me mate, far from it. I've not been to Mexico unfortunately, pero me gusta ton cerbeza.

Hasta lluego
BB

[BugHunt]

Dunno why things are suspicious because the member of the public went to the press.


Think about it its just about the only worthy thing a citizen can do.

Hand it back into government and theyll merely keep it quiet and go about business as usual no changes.

Post it on your web page clearly isnt the done thing.

Hand it into the BBC and the resultant bad press might force some of our mandrin princess's to actually follow proccedure.


Must admit the timings had me thinking "conspiracey" a bit....

The paranoid part of me thinks it might well be patriotic motivated agents working to bring down Broons government after watching his mishandling of things for several months. Afterall the bad press doesnt reflect on a specific agency but seemingly on the government as a whole, and Broon in particular...

The timings VERY convenient as it again focuses things on Broon again just after Davies's step down highlighted Tory divisions.


The realistic part of me says yeah like our government needs a reason to have monumental info messups - theyve been doing it from the get go! Wouldnt trust the fukkers with last years lottery numbers.


Still cant stop the X-files music playing a bit ;)

[Dif]

Got a chance to work with British secret services in Iraq. Sorry to say, but their professional level is somewhat similar to scouts.. Internet boys.. Playstation generation - that is what MI6 is nowadays.
Saying this, SAS and SBS are one of the worlds' most capable soldiers.

[Connaught Ranger]

Got a chance to work with British secret services in Iraq. Sorry to say, but their professional level is somewhat similar to scouts.. Internet boys.. Playstation generation - that is what MI6 is nowadays.
Saying this, SAS and SBS are one of the worlds' most capable soldiers.

S.A.S. & S.B.S. are one thing, Military Intelligence another kettle of fish, the 3 should not be confused, or lumped into the same basket.

Connaught Ranger:)

[Dif]

S.A.S. & S.B.S. are one thing, Military Intelligence another kettle of fish, the 3 should not be confused, or lumped into the same basket.

Connaught Ranger:)
Well, one would expect same level of quality applicable to all the important structures within defense ministry. Of course they do different tasks, but I mentioned SAS and SBS not to be accused of being total critic of everything British ;)

[Calanen]

Must admit the timings had me thinking "conspiracey" a bit....



Could just be they are working on something big, and way more people have their hands on project documents at the moment, and are pushed by some sort of deadline. More people, more documents, people taking stuff home to finish the project - more likely going to get stuff left on the train.

[Britboy]

Didn't think that was the sort of work you could take home...

[Calanen]

Didn't think that was the sort of work you could take home...

Some stuff you can take home, some stuff you cant. Whether they were supposed to take this stuff home, somebody clearly did.

[Connaught Ranger]

Well, one would expect same level of quality applicable to all the important structures within defense ministry. Of course they do different tasks, but I mentioned SAS and SBS not to be accused of being total critic of everything British ;)

Point taken, though expectations though can and do fall more than short of the mark, especially with anything related to Intelligence Gathering, military or otherwise:p

[Chops]

Guys there's no conspiracy or anything else. Another agency had half a dozen such incidents during my time over there (that I knew of so there were certainly more).

No surprise that the incidents appeared to peak at Christmas time- a dozen pints of festive cheer and a nice warm train back to Surrey...

[Calanen]

Guys there's no conspiracy or anything else. Another agency had half a dozen such incidents during my time over there (that I knew of so there were certainly more).

No surprise that the incidents appeared to peak at Christmas time- a dozen pints of festive cheer and a nice warm train back to Surrey...

In a security trial I was involved with, the government disclosed sensitive documents twice accidentally to the defence. It become all the more ridiculous, because the conversations went along the following lines:

'We've given you classified documents we shouldn't have....

(200 lever arch binder brief mind you),

and we'd like them back.'

'Sure, which documents are they, and you can have them back.'

'Oh, can't tell you that...it's classified. We'd just like to come to your office and take all of the documents, then return them after we've removed the classified ones.'

[Should say, the events reported above, in far more generous form, are publicly available in a reported decision.]