SCAR is now CAR

[SMGLee]

SOF Combat Assault Rifle(SCAR) has been renamed as Combat Assault Rifle(CAR), maybe a possible bid by FN to trying to promote the platform as an replace the now aging M16/M4 platform across the board.

[Hammer27]

Interesting...a bit of a heritage kind of thing, even if this will always be a CAR to me:

http://world.guns.ru/assault/CAR15.JPG

[Winger]

SOF Combat Assault Rifle(SCAR) has been renamed as Combat Assault Rifle(CAR), maybe a possible bid by FN to trying to promote the platform as an replace the now aging M16/M4 platform across the board.

I think they will beat out HK and Colt on a permanent replacement. We'll have to wait and see.

[Mordecai]

I think they will beat out HK and Colt on a permanent replacement. We'll have to wait and see.

Unfortunately you are probably right...

crip

[Albatross]

Unfortunately you are probably right...

crip

Have you shot one? I understand the throw between safe-semi-auto is very short, did you notice anything? How is the balance?

[Derfel]

If they're trying to get the government to agree to eventually replace the m16/m4 family with the CAR, I was just wondering, is the CAR more expensive? and if so , would it have any effect on the decision making, as for whether or not it is better than the M4, does anyone here know?
I know nothing about firearms, I'm just a military enthusiast who've never spent a day in uniform

It's my first post here, so hello all :)

[Albatross]

If they're trying to get the government to agree to eventually replace the m16/m4 family with the CAR, I was just wondering, is the CAR more expensive? and if so , would it have any effect on the decision making, as for whether or not it is better than the M4, does anyone here know?
I know nothing about firearms, I'm just a military enthusiast who've never spent a day in uniform

It's my first post here, so hello all :)

The sale point for the car, if I remember, is the modular design. You can change out barrels, and customize it very easily. From a business point of view it would be easier and, hopefully, cheaper to buy a new barrel than replace the entire weapon.

Welcome to mp.net.

[Derfel]

Ah that clarifies things a bit better, thank you sir, how does it compare to the M4 when it comes to actual usage? an improvement?
I've never fired an M4 only a Steyr, and even then it was only blanks

[Albatross]

Ah that clarifies things a bit better, thank you sir, how does it compare to the M4 when it comes to actual usage? an improvement?
I've never fired an M4 only a Steyr, and even then it was only blanks

The SCAR was developed for SOCOM, and has stayed on that track. This is the first time that I have heard it may be issued across the board.

The M4 was running into stoppage problems, so they started shopping around.

I have never had the opportunity to fire one, so this is where my knowledge ends. There are some guys that post here that have fired them, if you look around you will find them.

[Derfel]

Cheers mate, thanks

[Mordecai]

Have you shot one?

Yes I have fired the SCAR in both heavy and light version when FNH brought them down to where I am. I personally dont like them, but there really isnt a new design out that I do like... The ergonomics are off, the stocks break off too easily (which was addressed 3 years ago and still hadnt been fixed as of the meeting with the USASFC CO in May), the charging handle moves when the weapon is fired which is a royal PITA...

All that being said, I never had a failure to feed, fire, extract, or eject which is leaps and bounds ahead of the gas-op system the M-4/16 runs on...

The SOTIC instructors tried to get one out there to play with and test but FNH refused to let them play; something about thinking they might break it.

Will we get it, yes. Will anyone in USASFC be happy about it? Only those that dont have to fire it for a living...



my box and .02,

Crip

[SMGLee]

CAR, aka SCAR has a incredible soft recoil compare to the already soft M4 recoil.

It is piston driven so it is very reliable.

It is a true over the beach capability where you7 can actually fire multiple rounds with only the barrel exposed above the water line.

It is modualr, I belive it is near 80% compatible between the CAR-L and H model.

the safety is more egronomic with shorter travel.

It retain all the positive M16 egronomics.

It is more left hand friendly.

monolithic rail platform for rigid frame concept

free float barrel and ability to make quick barrel or caliber change at armory.

Price similar to what the gov't is paying for a RAS equipped M4 right now.

[Albatross]

Yes I have fired the SCAR in both heavy and light version when FNH brought them down to where I am. I personally dont like them, but there really isnt a new design out that I do like... The ergonomics are off, the stocks break off too easily (which was addressed 3 years ago and still hadnt been fixed as of the meeting with the USASFC CO in May), the charging handle moves when the weapon is fired which is a royal PITA, it has a proprietary rail system which makes all the mounts we currently use unusable...

The SOTIC instructors tried to get one out there to play with and test but FNH refused to let them play; something about thinking they might break it.

Will we get it, yes. Will anyone in USASFC be happy about it? Only those that dont have to fire it for a living...

my box and .02,

Crip

When are you folks supposed to take delivery?

[Derfel]

CAR, aka SCAR has a incredible soft recoil compare to the already soft M4 recoil.

It is piston driven so it is very reliable.

It is a true over the beach capability where you7 can actually fire multiple rounds with only the barrel exposed above the water line.

It is modualr, I belive it is near 80% compatible between the CAR-L and H model.

the safety is more egronomic with shorter travel.

It retain all the positive M16 egronomics.

It is more left hand friendly.

monolithic rail platform for rigid frame concept

free float barrel and ability to make quick barrel or caliber change at armory.

Price similar to what the gov't is paying for a RAS equipped M4 right now.

Have you also tried the new grenade launcher module they were supposedly making for it?
Sorry for all the questions, but since you're answering:)

[SMGLee]

Yes I have fired the SCAR in both heavy and light version when FNH brought them down to where I am. I personally dont like them, but there really isnt a new design out that I do like... The ergonomics are off, the stocks break off too easily (which was addressed 3 years ago and still hadnt been fixed as of the meeting with the USASFC CO in May), the charging handle moves when the weapon is fired which is a royal PITA, it has a proprietary rail system which makes all the mounts we currently use unusable...

The SOTIC instructors tried to get one out there to play with and test but FNH refused to let them play; something about thinking they might break it.

Will we get it, yes. Will anyone in USASFC be happy about it? Only those that dont have to fire it for a living...

my box and .02,

Crip

you shot some early version SCAR, the new Gen 3 and the now current Gen 4 should have addressed all the problems.

The reciprocating charging handle has two camps, one like it and one don't. Like the M4, it is non-reciprocating, but once in awhile, you get a brass stuck between the gas key and the charging handle. The FN CAR design of a reciprocating charging handle is a more simple and robust design. much in tune of the AK, G36, SG55x, FNC/AK5......

CAR seem to be more a CRANE and the big green are more leaning toward the HK system.... only time will tell.



Have you also tried the new grenade launcher module they were supposedly making for it?
Sorry for all the questions, but since you're answering:)

YEs, the ELGM is a step above the cut as far as GL is concern. I like it better than the AG36.

[Mordecai]

...current Gen 4 has addressed all the problems...

Apparently not, or so says the USASFC CSM...

Wonder why they wont let the SOTIC/SFAUC committees field test them..

Though I suppose they are being tested by the SME's at Natick; the same guys who field tested the ACU's...lol..

Crip

[Seiran]

So if this name change does indeed reflect FN's desire to market this across the board, do you think that's a sign that the Military is once again going to setup a competition in the near future? Or would it be more accurate to say they are simply wanting to expand into a less specific target group to try and pull in more of the market share?

Edit - I was just thinking this: Why would they change the name if all they wanted to do was (potentially) advertise it to more of the user base? A press release or something would be much more effective, wouldn't you think?

[the_recruit]

I have a quick question. . . .

I know very little about the SCAR. . .or well. . . CAR. how is the Light version going to adress the stopping power problems presented with the 5.56mm round?

[Ghostryder]

So, have these been delivered yet, or are they still in the testing phase?

From the sound of this thread, one gets the sense that FN is looking for a different angle.

[T3ngu]

I have a quick question. . . .

I know very little about the SCAR. . .or well. . . CAR. how is the Light version going to adress the stopping power problems presented with the 5.56mm round?

Are there stopping problems?

[DesertYote]

This is very interesting news. I look forward to hearing (and seeing) more about this rifle/platform in the future. Thanks for the update!

'Yote

[scrybe]

I have a quick question. . . .

I know very little about the SCAR. . .or well. . . CAR. how is the Light version going to adress the stopping power problems presented with the 5.56mm round?

They ship with a 3/4 ton pickup. Try to tell me that won't knock a guy over!

[Winger]

I have a quick question. . . .

I know very little about the SCAR. . .or well. . . CAR. how is the Light version going to adress the stopping power problems presented with the 5.56mm round?

When they get around to adopting it for 6.5 or 6.8. When that will happen, who knows? I like the 6.5 myself.

[hank]

When they get around to adopting it for 6.5 or 6.8. When that will happen, who knows? I like the 6.5 myself.

6.8, 6.9, whatever it takes.

hank

[LaoSexMachine]

6.8, 6.9, whatever it takes.

hank

Can't wait till they make a 12.7mm carbine with uber accessories.

[T3ngu]

Can't wait till they make a 12.7mm carbine with uber accessories.

Does it shoot beyond 600m? Cause it has to otherwise its no good.

[hank]

Can't wait till they make a 12.7mm carbine with uber accessories.

12.7, 12.8 whatever it takes.

hank

[LaoSexMachine]

Word. Girlfriends.

[wildcat]

LOL......you guys, it really does not matter, is seems that fielding a replacement is a long way off. I still don't see a replacement is needed. the M16/M4 seems to be doing just fine, and if people are worried about the gas system, well some time, hopefully soon, there shall get a piston system that works well.

[BrianT]

I have a quick question. . . .

I know very little about the SCAR. . .or well. . . CAR. how is the Light version going to adress the stopping power problems presented with the 5.56mm round?
Have you shot someone with 5.56? Just curious.

[T3ngu]

Have you shot someone with 5.56? Just curious.

Obviously he has been shot by a 5.56, he is alive. yes im being facetious

[Seiran]

Obviously he has been shot by a 5.56, he is alive. yes im being facetious

AHAHAHA!!!!!!! roflroflroflroflrofl

[Bulletproof]

Obviously he has been shot by a 5.56, he is alive. yes im being facetious

Nice comeback :D

[T3ngu]

*bows*

Couldn't resist.

[Rakki]

BIKE - 9mm pistol
CAR - 5.56mm infantry variant
COUPE - 6.8mm SOF variant
TRUCK - 12.7mm HMG

[Rubik]

i have heard that the SCAR LB is intended to replace both the mk11 and mk12. could someone tell me whether that is true or not ?

[wildcat]

BIKE - 9mm pistol
CAR - 5.56mm infantry variant
COUPE - 6.8mm SOF variant
TRUCK - 12.7mm HMG

skateboard - M10 Bayonet

LOL......

[JC0352]

skateboard - M10 Bayonet

LOL......

rollerblades - Marine Corps eye gouge p-)

[Hammer27]

I have a quick question. . . .

I know very little about the SCAR. . .or well. . . CAR. how is the Light version going to adress the stopping power problems presented with the 5.56mm round?

Could the 5.56NATO hit harder, faster, and be just a nastier cartridge all around? Yes, of course. But the need really is not there. Two in the chest, one in the head, kills them dead. Now, I'm a fan of the 6.8SPC, it looks really good and is an improvement. But again, the need is not as prevalent as some make it out to be. I'd rather see the government say F*CK YOU to the Geneva Convention BS about hollowpoints and start dishing that stuff out across the board than switch to 6.8.
Just my two cents.

[vinny_121_ND]

Two in the chest, one in the head, kills them dead.


Most often, that's not what happens in the real world.

[Mordecai]

Just curious as to how many of you, who are proponents of a larger caliber round, have been on extended patrols in Iraq, in the mountains of Afghanistan, or elsewhere? 3-gun and tinkering on a range doesn't count as patrolling.

I am not arguing against a larger round, just looking to see who wants to carry more weight than they are carrying now...

As a side note, shot placement has been and always will be the deciding factor when engaging the enemy, not the size of the round. Something needs to be done about the 5.56 over penetration though...

Crip

[Seraphim]

Hague convention, not Geneva. Also the US never signed the convention.

[Rynnäkkökivääri]

How about one in the balls first? That way in case you miss the second time, well you don't have to worry about many more coming after that guy.

[Albatross]

This thread has been de-****ing-railed. We are talking about the SCAR/CAR. Back on track.

Cric and BrianT, Do you know when and/or if you will be taking delivery of the weapon?

[cavtroop4]

When do you suppose the civilian version might be released?

[wildcat]

When do you suppose the civilian version might be released?

It was meant to be release June 2008, some of the gun store in my country has signed up with FN for it.

[Mordecai]

...Cric and BrianT, Do you know when and/or if you will be taking delivery of the weapon?

I had heard by the end of the year we should have them...but we are getting 416 uppers in a few weeks too sooooo...

Crip

[Seiran]

I had heard by the end of the year we should have them...but we are getting 416 uppers in a few weeks too sooooo...

Crip

I'm not doubting you or calling you a liar, please don't think that, but it's been reported that the Army has issued a confiscation order to several of it's Tier 1 units regarding the HK416 system. This was also validated by a good friend of mine who is a 2nd LT. So how is it that you are receiving the upper's? Did they rescind the order or are you guys just lucky?

If it's against the regs to tell me, then nevermind. But if you are able to, I would like to know.

[SMGLee]

WE should see the Light by end of this year, and hopefully the heavy shortly after.

The 416 is still a mystery, I was told by some insider to grab what iso on the market and don't hope Wilcox, especially with the current HK45 fiasco.

[GoSka37]

There's an HK45 Fiasco?

[Chops]

I'm not doubting you or calling you a liar, please don't think that, but it's been reported that the Army has issued a confiscation order to several of it's Tier 1 units regarding the HK416 system. This was also validated by a good friend of mine who is a 2nd LT. So how is it that you are receiving the upper's? Did they rescind the order or are you guys just lucky?

If it's against the regs to tell me, then nevermind. But if you are able to, I would like to know.

My understanding is that the Tier Ones kept their 416s. AWG handed theirs in much to their disgust I'm told.

[Mordecai]

I'm not doubting you or calling you a liar, please don't think that, but it's been reported that the Army has issued a confiscation order to several of it's Tier 1 units regarding the HK416 system. This was also validated by a good friend of mine who is a 2nd LT. So how is it that you are receiving the upper's? Did they rescind the order or are you guys just lucky?



There are units in the Army who have been issued the 416 and who still are using them. I wont go into why AWG had theirs taken back but suffice to say it was a poor reason/decision. We havent received ours yet because we were OCONUS at the time they were issued...

Also Seiran never trust a 2nd LT especially one who beings anything with, "its been my experience blah, blah, blah." Sometimes the rumor mill effects the Jr Officers as well.

Crip

[digrar]

Also Seiran never trust a 2nd LT especially one who beings anything with, "its been my experience blah, blah, blah."

Haha, even more true in our part of the world where a 2nd LT will be a reservist, (regs go straight to 1st LT).

[BonesBrigade]

AWG's had to return their 416's for political reasoning's mostly. Tier 1 troops refused to give them up and i guess the rest of the military didn't want to push the issue.

[Laconian]

Also Seiran never trust a 2nd LT especially one who beings anything with, "its been my experience blah, blah, blah." Sometimes the rumor mill effects the Jr Officers as well.

Crip

Or a WO or NCO who says, "Hey, sir watch this..." Or "Sir, tell the old man..." It is the equivalent of "Pull my finger..."

Crip, your comment to the "switch to a heavier caliber" crowd about humping that extra load is right on. I love what my M1A Scout can do but that .308 ammo weighs a ton, I wouldn't want to hump it on a 10-hr patrol, let alone a 3-4 day one.

[KoTeMoRe]

Or a WO or NCO who says, "Hey, sir watch this..." Or "Sir, tell the old man..." It is the equivalent of "Pull my finger..."

Crip, your comment to the "switch to a heavier caliber" crowd about humping that extra load is right on. I love what my M1A Scout can do but that .308 ammo weighs a ton, I wouldn't want to hump it on a 10-hr patrol, let alone a 3-4 day one.

It is funny was reading the same complaints from albanian soldiers yesterday, most dissing the m43 and their RPD SAW's.

[big_les]

Maybe the rebranding was necessary, but the new name is essentially meaningless. "Combat Assault Rifle"? As opposed to a Non-Combat one? WTF?

[mj78]

why meaningless? it was SOF Combat Assault Rifle. so they took off SOF because it´s not only for SOF personel. they want sell lot of it :)

[BrianT]

all right, let's play nice in front of the kids.

-beo

[Winger]

I'm not doubting you or calling you a liar, please don't think that, but it's been reported that the Army has issued a confiscation order to several of it's Tier 1 units regarding the HK416 system. This was also validated by a good friend of mine who is a 2nd LT. So how is it that you are receiving the upper's? Did they rescind the order or are you guys just lucky?

If it's against the regs to tell me, then nevermind. But if you are able to, I would like to know.

So 2nd LTs can get immediate entry into high-speed units utilizing 416s? Maybe a lot has changed in the past 7 years or so but usually if your a 2nd LT you're trying to prove yourself in a "regular" unit.

[Mordecai]

So 2nd LTs can get immediate entry into high-speed units...

There are still no 2nd LT's in High-Speed units doing anything high-speed. Things haven't changed that much.

Crip

[SMGLee]

There's an HK45 Fiasco?

somehow the US made HK45 is goi9ng to be priced higher than the German model, so who is going to fork out the $$ to buy an Us model? again...word on the street that is!!

[Winger]

There are still no 2nd LT's in High-Speed units doing anything high-speed. Things haven't changed that much.

Crip

Figured that was the case. Proves my suspicion.

[Seiran]

Thanks for clearing that up Chops and surgical.

[BrianT]

Damn it, my O hating comment got deleted.:)

[Longbaugh]

In case anybody is interested...

There is a guy over on SOCNET who goes by the handle of Longrange1947. He is a career Special Forces soldier, and a senior SOTIC instructor. He is a longtime, vetted mmber of SOCNET, so his credentials are bona fide. He has been involved with SOTIC's evaluation of the SCAR since the beginning, has nothing good to say about it, and says that the FN SCAR-H is pretty much being crammed down SOTIC's collective throat. He is on record there as saying that they want the HK 417.

About the only person on SOCNET who says anything good about the FN SCAR rifles is a guy who is an employee of FN.

Incidentally, Longrange1947, in his infinite wisdom, also says that Knight's Armament rifles suck, too, but for entirely different reasons. A lot of people over there say KAC rifles suck. Funny, that.

[SMGLee]

KAC rifle definitely has its problem, starting with the SR25, it was never deem reliable...

some lead SEAL weapons chief told KAC once that a lot of tango lived because of the SR25.....eeeeeck

The SCAR/CAR is crammed down the throat of the Army because it is a CRANE project(Navy), while some Army personnel hate the SCAR it is understandable.... as a newly developed system, it will take some time to mature, a lot of new revision on the upcoming MOD1 will be aimed toward apeace the Army side of the SOCOM.

[SGMGSG9]

In case anybody is interested...

There is a guy over on SOCNET who goes by the handle of Longrange1947. He is a career Special Forces soldier, and a senior SOTIC instructor. He is a longtime, vetted mmber of SOCNET, so his credentials are bona fide. He has been involved with SOTIC's evaluation of the SCAR since the beginning, has nothing good to say about it, and says that the FN SCAR-H is pretty much being crammed down SOTIC's collective throat. He is on record there as saying that they want the HK 417.

About the only person on SOCNET who says anything good about the FN SCAR rifles is a guy who is an employee of FN.

Incidentally, Longrange1947, in his infinite wisdom, also says that Knight's Armament rifles suck, too, but for entirely different reasons. A lot of people over there say KAC rifles suck. Funny, that.

Longbaugh, Can you provide a direct link to the highlighted & underlined portion of your post please.

[GoSka37]

somehow the US made HK45 is goi9ng to be priced higher than the German model, so who is going to fork out the $$ to buy an Us model? again...word on the street that is!!

Ahh... yeah... that.. wow. Okay. That really sucks.

[D.E. Watters]

There is a guy over on SOCNET who goes by the handle of Longrange1947....He has been involved with SOTIC's evaluation of the SCAR since the beginning, has nothing good to say about it, and says that the FN SCAR-H is pretty much being crammed down SOTIC's collective throat.

The thing about longrange1947's anti-SCAR rants on SOCNET (and related forums) is that he sometimes appears to confuse the HK XM8 with the SCAR. In the past, he has gone on about how the SCAR's manufacturer tried to push an proprietary accessory mount system instead of MIL-STD-1913 rails. To me, that sounds more like the PCAP on HK's XM8.

[SilentType]

U.S. Civilian version (16" barrel) SCAR-L MK16 with all the features of the military model save for the fact that it is semi-auto only and comes with a 16" barrel should be available Fourth Quarter 2008 from what I have been told. The SCAR-H MK17 should be available in semi-auto only purchase for US civilians First Quarter of 2009.

Price so far is unknown. Although the official word is that it will be competitive with rifles of similiar caliber.

I plan on purchasing one myself. I will certainly let everyone know my impressions of it once I have it.

[SGMGSG9]

Longbaugh, Can you provide a direct link to the highlighted & underlined portion of your post please.

86 my request Longbaugh, I know who CLOCKCQC is on SOCNET now.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/7905/grouplx1.jpg

He's God in my I.D.P.A. match photo. God's street credits are off the charts, Retired Army Ranger 21 years (officer rank), artificial hip (he still wont tell us how) SMART AS HELL, the dudes a walking encyclopedia! That's why we call'em GOD ;B)

SMGLee if anyone's cramming anything down anyone's throat its between CRANE & the Army. All that's political B.S. anyways, WAY ABOVE my pay grade. The Government came to use, asked for the development of a new Combat Assault Rifle for SOCOM & the 21 century. They set the requirements. They made the rules. We @ FN are delivering the best quality products we know how to. Ever guy in this photo can vouch for that.

SMGLee I think I've asked you this before but it's slipping my mind, what's your occupation again mate? You've got good posts, lots of killer pictures. I figure you for an industry insider, but one never know you could be a well read, deep pocketed airsofter.(No offense to airsofters) Refresh my memory please.


Speaking of SMART AS HELL & walking encyclopedias!

Mr. D.E. Watters, good to see you again brother! I was worried the flooding got you! I hope ALL's well with you & family!?!?!?

[SMGLee]

SMGLee if anyone's cramming anything down anyone's throat its between CRANE & the Army. All that's political B.S. anyways, WAY ABOVE my pay grade. The Government came to use, asked for the development of a new Combat Assault Rifle for SOCOM & the 21 century. They set the requirements. They made the rules. We @ FN are delivering the best quality products we know how to. Ever guy in this photo can vouch for that.

SMGLee I think I've asked you this before but it's slipping my mind, what's your occupation again mate? You've got good posts, lots of killer pictures. I figure you for an industry insider, but one never know you could be a well read, deep pocketed airsofter.(No offense to airsofters) Refresh my memory please.

Airsoft I am not, just someone that cruise the interent often.

Talk to Brett Westcott....:)

For what you did at FN, under the time frame, and budget, the CAR project is an amazing feat. your company's accomplishment on this project can be easily compared to the defuncted XM8......look at how much they spent and what that thing end up to be....LOL

I have a SCAR-H and SSR on my to buy list, but i hear the SCAR-L will be out later this year, but the H would be considerable time delay....sigh!!

[SGMGSG9]

SMGLee,

So I was right on the well reed part. You still haven't answered the question though. What do you do, who do you work for? I'm not trying to embarrass or discredit you. I'm just really curious brother that's all. Your profile says Middle Management. Management for who, like a bank or some major retailer like Walmart, or maybe a information technologies/computer firm who? It's all good, just curious that's all.

[SilentType]

SMGLee is being modest.

SMGLee is pretty much a fixture now at every serious industry show and has done things like tour the Magpul shop back when the ACR was still the Massada. He does probably the best and most complete photoshoot of SHOT Show every year over anyone else and has been responsible for providing the public (like me) with a lot of news and information on the latest military/leo/civilian defense products.

SMGLee is a great example of the type of person our Founding Fathers had in mind when they preserved the right to keep and bear arms through the Second Amendment.

[SGMGSG9]

SilentType,

Lets stay on topic, this is about the SCAR/CAR rifle.

For the record, I'm not questioning SGMLee contributions to this forum or his patriotism to our nation. I just asked the man where he works. It's a simple question. For example; Before I became a Weapons tester here a F.N.M. LLC, I was a Cook with Applebee's corporation, and a Professional bicycle mechanic of 14 year. This is how I would answer the question if asked of me. No mystery needed. But if Lee doesn't want to answer the question that's cool too. I think he hasn't had time to respond to my question yet that's all.

And there's no one bigger on the second amendment than me. "THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP & BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

[Beowulf]

SilentType,

Lets stay on topic, this is about the SCAR/CAR rifle.

For the record, I'm not questioning SGMLee contributions to this forum or his patriotism to our nation. I just asked the man where he works. It's a simple question. For example; Before I became a Weapons tester here a F.N.M. LLC, I was a Cook with Applebee's corporation, and a Professional bicycle mechanic of 14 year. This is how I would answer the question if asked of me. No mystery needed. But if Lee doesn't want to answer the question that's cool too. I think he hasn't had time to respond to my question yet that's all.

And there's no one bigger on the second amendment than me. "THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP & BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

As far as staying on topic... Why don't you just PM Lee for his creds/bio, instead of asking in the open forum.

I don't think he'd give them to you anyway, I wouldn't.

[SGMGSG9]

As far as staying on topic... Why don't you just PM Lee for his creds/bio, instead of asking in the open forum.

I don't think he'd give them to you anyway, I wouldn't.

Good thing I didn't ask your opinion then isn't pal. But thanks for your two cents worth.

I thought about the private PM, But where do you work is not a OPSEC question.

[Beowulf]

Good thing I didn't ask your opinion then isn't pal. But thanks for your two cents worth.

I thought about the private PM, But where do you work is not a OPSEC question.

Ok. Have a great day.

[Seiran]

Good thing I didn't ask your opinion then isn't pal. But thanks for your two cents worth.

I thought about the private PM, But where do you work is not a OPSEC question.

*tries not to laugh* Wow that wasn't the smartest thing to do...

[jagermeister]

Who has the popcorn

[SGMGSG9]

Beowulf you have a PM.

Sorry to disappoint fellas, no popcorn necessary.

[Hawkeye4077]

Getchya popcorn ready
Fixed.....

[Hollis]

Good thing I didn't ask your opinion then isn't pal. But thanks for your two cents worth.

I thought about the private PM, But where do you work is not a OPSEC question.


We are a family here, I may not like everyone, but we are family.

Let me suggest that you get with the program.

H.

[James]

Before I became a Weapons tester here a F.N.M. LLC, I was a Cook with Applebee's corporation, and a Professional bicycle mechanic of 14 year.

Wow, is it normal for people with that sort of work experience to get hired as a weapons tester? Did you start low with FN and work your way up? Did you know someone on the inside?

[Albatross]

Wow, is it normal for people with that sort of work experience to get hired as a weapons tester? Did you start low with FN and work your way up? Did you know someone on the inside?

no sh!t, I ate at applebees, and I once rode a bike. you hiring?

[SGMGSG9]

It's all true James, those where jobs I had & loved. Only thing is I realized I would never make any money at them. So it was time for a change. It didn't hurt ether that I was a competitive shooter of almost 11 years,I.D.P.A. etc. I know my way around pistols for sure. Matter of fact it was one of my customers who works @ F.N. as a tool setter that brought me a application. "He was like, dude your exactly what their looking for." When I had the interview, I made my mind up I was getting this job. I told my interviewer/current boss that I was willing to sweep floors to start out here. He said sorry, the only job available was as weapons tester, was I interested.

COME ON FELLAS, WHAT WAS I SUPPOSE TO SAY?!? ;B)

It true I don't have the extensive military back ground most of the other weapons tester do. Born to a military family fathers retired Air force, Oooo I did R.O.T.C. In high school, & was going to join the Air Force, but that fell through. So the working word was welcoming. First thing they did after hiring me was put me on pistols. I worked my way up to the military side of the house later, been there for 4 years now & love it. On the range as a weapons tester your pretty much a human solenoid. You pull triggers & log information.


NOW RESPECTFULLY, ENOUGH ABOUT ME!!!! ;B)

Hollis, I know were a family here, & I respect these guys & girls immensely. It's a honor to be a part of such a web site. All I did was ask another member what he did for a living. As this member comes across very knowledgeable in his post on weapons & the industry. It is his freedom to answer my question or not. But to have other guys jump my butt for asking a question was uncalled for & I over reacted with Beowolf reply, a little, no hard feeling on this side of the key board.


P.S. It's good to see all the civilian interest in the S.C.A.R. Rifle. Sad part is you asshole's will be able to get yours before I can have mine! ;B\ So much for the perks. F.N.'s got a policy to take care of all their customer's before employees can buy.

[Beowulf]

Sounds good....now back to talking about cool guns....

[SGMGSG9]

Hell Yeah!

[-[Crosshair]-]

Hey have you guys ever heard of the OICW I heard it was badass.


And oh God yes I am only kidding.

[Seiran]

-;3337325']Hey have you guys ever heard of the OICW I heard it was badass.


And oh God yes I am only kidding.

lol Classic

[SMGLee]

SMGLee,

So I was right on the well reed part. .

I do care about my readings, but well connected is one of the aspect of my information within the firearms industry, I have been involved within the firearms industry for over 20 years, made a lot of great friends, and those friend work at some of the higher level within the industry or military services...but I DO NOT work within the firearms industry........I guess you can call me a wannabe, that would be more truthful...;)

Again, give Brett Westcott a shout, he can vet for me, but my source on the CAR did not come from him....:D

My position at Gigabyte Technology (http://www.gigabyte-usa.com/) is director of high performance computer division. our division sell high performance computer components to various companies that build industry PC that possibly run the CNC machine in your FNM all the way to high speed cluster super computer that might be calculating re-entry trojectory of the space shuttle.

As far as you are not able to get a CAR before some of us, it is hard to believe, you could simply go to a local shop and buy one just like the rest of us.... that is of course you are gonna pay retail, but i guess one of the perks being an FN employee is a good deal on the company manufactured weapons. I do however thing think the CAR-L should be priced at no more than 1500.00(I heard 1800.00 retail), especially when the Gov't pricing is about 2000.00 which come as a package with an AAC suppressor, lot of magazines and a spare CQB barrel. which is a great improvement compare to the current M4 RAS pricing.

[SGMGSG9]

Lee I was just curious what you did professionaly, Thank you for answering. I was kind of leaning towards the computer technologies as my guess. I figured a guy with that many GOOD high res, mega pixels photo's, had to have a computer connection some how! ;B)

Dude, I don't think your a wanabe at all!!! At least you've taken the time to study the industry & make good connections!

Yeah I could buy one when you guys do, but If I want a price break I'll have to wait a little while longer. I asked one of the engineers working on a S.C.A.R. L / w 12 in. suppressed barrel, (he was running a endurance on this weapon -15000rds. or bust) when the civilian S.C.A.R.'s would be available to the public. He said end of the year when dealers would receive their first samples. He had no price information.

[SilentType]

Well, when you look at the competition you come up with two similiar modular rifles in my opinion the Robinson Arms XCR and the Bushmaster ACR. Those two rifles will probably be the most immediate competition for CAR dollars. The Robinson XCR base price for a 5.56x45mm chambered rifle is $1,299.99 from Robinson Arms. However, this is before you add anything and once you add a heavy barrel, folding/collasping stock, front, and rear sight you end-up with an XCR that costs $1794.98. The Bushmaster ACR last I heard was looking at a $1400-$1600 price tag with a fixed stock and without rear sight. So for a CAR-L at $1800 I think you do have a competitive rifle price wise since you get the BUIS, the folding/collasping stock, and a barrel with a long service life.

I'd be MUCH more happy though if they did price it near $1500.00. If they priced it at $1500 there would be a mass exodus of AR DI folks to the CAR-L. I'm sure it will be hard to get your hands on an initial civilian production run of the CAR. They'll have to turn out some big numbers to meet initial demand.

[Sato]

Hypothetically, could the SCAR/CAR platform be offered to other non-US gouvernments/armed forces/ police foreces/etc...? I was wondering this because the development seems to have been funded by the US SOCOM.

Could anyone clarify?

Sorry if this question has been answered before.

[wildcat]

Well, when you look at the competition you come up with two similiar modular rifles in my opinion the Robinson Arms XCR and the Bushmaster ACR. Those two rifles will probably be the most immediate competition for CAR dollars. The Robinson XCR base price for a 5.56x45mm chambered rifle is $1,299.99 from Robinson Arms. However, this is before you add anything and once you add a heavy barrel, folding/collasping stock, front, and rear sight you end-up with an XCR that costs $1794.98. The Bushmaster ACR last I heard was looking at a $1400-$1600 price tag with a fixed stock and without rear sight. So for a CAR-L at $1800 I think you do have a competitive rifle price wise since you get the BUIS, the folding/collasping stock, and a barrel with a long service life.

I'd be MUCH more happy though if they did price it near $1500.00. If they priced it at $1500 there would be a mass exodus of AR DI folks to the CAR-L. I'm sure it will be hard to get your hands on an initial civilian production run of the CAR. They'll have to turn out some big numbers to meet initial demand.

I link the look of the SCAR, and here it quite a good rifle, but as for the Bushmasters ACR (I like this one two) and the XCR, I don't know how they perform, with the AR system I know what I get, and can fix problems, but I do want to get a Gas piston rifle, it very confusing which would be the best bet, I know I am not the only one pondering this. My question is what would you guys choice and why not the others?

[SGMGSG9]

Not sure if you guys know it or not but all the S.C.A.R. rifles currently & in the near future are being manufactured @ Herstal Belgium. We here in Columbia are making barrels for them, but the weapons are being built in Herstal. In Columbia were doing all the engineering testing for this system. I was told by a friend/engineer who recently spent time @ Herstal that he had never seen so many S.C.A.R. rifle in one place in all his life. He said it looked like a scene from the matrix when Neo asked for a gun & a stockroom appeared.

http://uk.youtube.com/v/Y70vcs3oV14


SOUNDS & LOOKS (FROM MY PERSPECTIVE ) LIKE WHERE GETTING READY FOR A PRODUCTION PUSH!

[SMGLee]

I am looking for to the next release of the RLIP to SOCOM...looking forward to put some rounds down range on the Gen4 models...

Have you seen the SCAR IAR, nicely done.....!!!

[SGMGSG9]

I am looking for to the next release of the RLIP to SOCOM...looking forward to put some rounds down range on the Gen4 models...

Have you seen the SCAR IAR, nicely done.....!!!

The answer is YES I have, & Thank You very much. ;B)

[James]

Hypothetically, could the SCAR/CAR platform be offered to other non-US gouvernments/armed forces/ police foreces/etc...? I was wondering this because the development seems to have been funded by the US SOCOM.

Could anyone clarify?

Was it funded by the U.S. Military? I was under the impression that they'd announced an interest in a new rifle with XYZ characteristics - basically out it out for bid.

[GoSka37]

-;3337325']Hey have you guys ever heard of the OICW I heard it was badass.


And oh God yes I am only kidding.

Thank god your kidding.

[SGMGSG9]

Was it funded by the U.S. Military? I was under the impression that they'd announced an interest in a new rifle with XYZ characteristics - basically out it out for bid.


The original request was by the Government on behalf of SOCOM. i.e. the Governments money & SOCOM's Idea's & input.


F.N. is just making the dreams come ture.

[SGMGSG9]

Hypothetically, could the SCAR/CAR platform be offered to other non-US gouvernments/armed forces/ police foreces/etc...? I was wondering this because the development seems to have been funded by the US SOCOM.

Could anyone clarify?

Sorry if this question has been answered before.


I'm sure in time it will find it's self in the hands of non-U.S. Governments/Armed Forces. Special units in allied Governments/Militaries will be hands on if there not already. I sure they've already found them selves in trials in the Belgium Military you can bet on that! There was a time in this nation when a combat rifle for our Military had to be made 100% here in the United States, but even this seams to have changed. B\

[Hammer27]

Well, when you look at the competition you come up with two similiar modular rifles in my opinion the Robinson Arms XCR and the Bushmaster ACR. Those two rifles will probably be the most immediate competition for CAR dollars. The Robinson XCR base price for a 5.56x45mm chambered rifle is $1,299.99 from Robinson Arms. However, this is before you add anything and once you add a heavy barrel, folding/collasping stock, front, and rear sight you end-up with an XCR that costs $1794.98. The Bushmaster ACR last I heard was looking at a $1400-$1600 price tag with a fixed stock and without rear sight. So for a CAR-L at $1800 I think you do have a competitive rifle price wise since you get the BUIS, the folding/collasping stock, and a barrel with a long service life.

I'd be MUCH more happy though if they did price it near $1500.00. If they priced it at $1500 there would be a mass exodus of AR DI folks to the CAR-L. I'm sure it will be hard to get your hands on an initial civilian production run of the CAR. They'll have to turn out some big numbers to meet initial demand.

The poor stock design on the XCR is what breaks it for me. ACR looks good but the fact that the CAR was chosen by SOCOM makes it number one. I think that will be a factor for a lot of people as well.

[REMOV]

I do however thing think the CAR-L should be priced at no more than 1500.00 (...) especially when the Gov't pricing is about 2000.00 which come as a package with an AAC suppressor, lot of magazinesTen to be exact.

[REMOV]

Hypothetically, could the SCAR/CAR platform be offered to other non-US gouvernments/armed forces/ police foreces/etc...? (...) Could anyone clarify?In the real world from June 16th, 2008 the FN SCAR modular rifle family is offered for everyone around the Earth. The decision of the FN Herstal was announced at the Eurosatory 2008 fair.

[SilentType]

Absolutely. The beautiful thing about FN is that they sell everything they can legally sell that they produce. Wonderful capitalists. God bless them.

Is anyone outside the USA taking a serious look at the CAR?

[SilentType]

Not sure if you guys know it or not but all the S.C.A.R. rifles currently & in the near future are being manufactured @ Herstal Belgium. We here in Columbia are making barrels for them, but the weapons are being built in Herstal. In Columbia were doing all the engineering testing for this system. I was told by a friend/engineer who recently spent time @ Herstal that he had never seen so many S.C.A.R. rifle in one place in all his life. He said it looked like a scene from the matrix when Neo asked for a gun & a stockroom appeared.


SOUNDS & LOOKS (FROM MY PERSPECTIVE ) LIKE WHERE GETTING READY FOR A PRODUCTION PUSH!

I assume they have plans in place though to move production here should they be able to secure a larger DOD contract. If the CAR was to become the next service rifle for the US Military or secure a larger contract beyond SOCOM the politicians are going to want US production.

[Bro Jangles]

I assume they have plans in place though to move production here should they be able to secure a larger DOD contract. If the CAR was to become the next service rifle for the US Military or secure a larger contract beyond SOCOM the politicians are going to want US production.

also for civilian uses, i was under the impression that military style rifles could no longer be imported to the us. so those would have to be made here.

[SilentType]

The poor stock design on the XCR is what breaks it for me. ACR looks good but the fact that the CAR was chosen by SOCOM makes it number one. I think that will be a factor for a lot of people as well.

Yeah, the XCR appears to be a very nice rifle by the majority of reports and reviews I've read. I've only fired it once though so I wouldn't consider myself an "expert" on the XCR. I have heard that a more ergonomic stock is in the works at Robinson for the XCR, but I haven't seen anything concrete on that yet. The positive about the XCR though is that you can purchase one now and they have most of their caliber conversion out already. They've got their 5.56x45mm or .223 Remington, the 6.5 and 6.8 along with their 7.62x39mm version with a 7.62x51mm or .308 XCR on the way.

With the Bushmaster XCR they're doing the 5.56x45mm first and Bushmaster has the option to follow that with other calibers up to 7.62x39mm. However, it's obviously going to take some time for those calibers to roll off the production line...probably not until late 2009 before you see all those calibers available from Bushmaster at this rate (hopefully sooner). The Massoud the .308 version of the ACR isn't yet sold to Bushmaster and I have zero clue how many parts it shares with the ACR.

I like the CAR because I get 5.56x45mm and 7.62x51mm option and they have the ability to crank out the 5.56x45mm and then the 7.62x51mm rifles right away in decent numbers. The CAR L and H were developed together so both designs are tested and ready to go. I like 6.5, 6.8, and 7.62x39, BUT if I'm going to step up from 5.56x45mm I want to go up to a 7.62x51. The other caliber options are nice, but if I'm looking for power glve me the power of a 7.62x51mm. After I've got the L and H I'm sure we'll see other caliber options down the line for the CAR anyways.

That's how I see it anyways. I mean I just think it's very incredible that we'll be able to have such an amazing selection of very fine firearms with incredible modularity. Competition is what makes this industry great and perhaps we can even get a bit of price war going for us consumers.

[SilentType]

also for civilian uses, i was under the impression that military style rifles could no longer be imported to the us. so those would have to be made here.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the receivers would have to be made here and then a number of other parts before they could sell them on the civilian market.

[angry cow]

Ok so FN says that SCAR-L and SCAR-H have like 80% parts commonality. Which is cool, except for this one question I have.

How can they have 80% in common if you have to change out the barrel, the hand guard, the trigger group, the upper receiver, and the bolt?

I'm pretty sure that the butt stock of the rifle doesn't count as 80%, right?

If someone who is actually familiar with the weapon could explain this one to me it would be greatly appreciated.

[SilentType]

I haven't seen a parts list yet for the CAR, but when the CAR-L comes out you'll have your answer since that will come with the manual.

Have you guys seen the latest video from them showing the P90, CAR, F2000, M2, and other firearms (5.7, M240, ect.) they make? Pretty cool stuff. Basically guys running around in Multicam looking pretty tacticool. I love the video stuff though...great marketing and fun to watch during a coffee break.

Enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cCICT4HCwM

Haha, but who picked the music for this video? Sounds like 70's **** music.

Haha, o

[3rdMillhouse]

I saw a HMG being operated in this video. What's the name of it?

[wildcat]

I saw a HMG being operated in this video. What's the name of it?

that would be the M2, It a browning design, I know FN make some now. It one of my favorite weapons, sh!t I miss firing it.

[3rdMillhouse]

that would be the M2, It a browning design, I know FN make some now. It one of my favorite weapons, sh!t I miss firing it.

Thanks, didn't know FN assembled M2s.

[Hydro]

Thanks, didn't know FN assembled M2s.



FN have been producing many of Brownings designs for the best part of a century now - BAR, M2, Hi Power etc.

[Thor]

What are the arguments against a charging handle that moves when fired?

To me that's simply a great tool.

[Jagr]

What are the arguments against a charging handle that moves when fired?

To me that's simply a great tool.

Let me summarize the arguments... and I quote "Fu%#$! Go#$#ammit that Fu#$%in Hurts!!!!!"

When you fire it under "normal" contitions it would never be an issue..but if the unusual situation required you to hold it awkwardly to get the muzzle on the bad guys it sucks having something moving that fast that can hit you or your gear and possibly cause a stoppage by interfering with the cycle completing.

[REMOV]

How can they have 80% in common if you have to change out the barrel, the hand guard, the trigger group, the upper receiver, and the bolt?So what? You are looking at the few distinctive external differences (being just a plastic molds in fact) and haven't seen a lots of external identities. That's why you cannot see the 82% parts commonality. Nearly everything inside (for instace inside the trigger group you have got the same parts) is the same. Mystery solved now?

[asch]

Let me summarize the arguments... and I quote "Fu%#$! Go#$#ammit that Fu#$%in Hurts!!!!!"

When you fire it under "normal" contitions it would never be an issue..but if the unusual situation required you to hold it awkwardly to get the muzzle on the bad guys it sucks having something moving that fast that can hit you or your gear and possibly cause a stoppage by interfering with the cycle completing.
come on, guns always have dangerous parts. people get trained to use them safely, that's all. i don't see much soldiers who place their bodyparts ahead of barrel cut, or who grip gun barrel when shooting.
p-)

[voncoz]

Not sure if you guys know it or not but all the S.C.A.R. rifles currently & in the near future are being manufactured @ Herstal Belgium. We here in Columbia are making barrels for them, but the weapons are being built in Herstal. In Columbia were doing all the engineering testing for this system. I was told by a friend/engineer who recently spent time @ Herstal that he had never seen so many S.C.A.R. rifle in one place in all his life. He said it looked like a scene from the matrix when Neo asked for a gun & a stockroom appeared.

http://uk.youtube.com/v/Y70vcs3oV14


SOUNDS & LOOKS (FROM MY PERSPECTIVE ) LIKE WHERE GETTING READY FOR A PRODUCTION PUSH!
How will FN sell to civilians if only the barrel is made here? I was under the impression that a certain % of parts had to made here in order for a company to sell an assault weapon to a civilian.

[Power_serj]

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/004323.html
SOF just ordered a bunch of them. Anyone think this will replace the M16/M4? M16A1 started out with Special Forces, so it sure is starting to look like a permanent replacement. It also looks like an easy switch over from M4/M16 also. Maybe their experience with this weapon will determine it's and the M4's future.

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/004324.html

[SGMGSG9]

How will FN sell to civilians if only the barrel is made here? I was under the impression that a certain % of parts had to made here in order for a company to sell an assault weapon to a civilian.

Well.........Voncoz I don't believe there is any mandatory percentages for civilian sales required. Where the requirement comes to play is for military sales. i.e. You want to supply our military with weapon platforms we can manufacture & supply parts for without any dependency of foreign sources. To my knowledge that requirement was a weapon made here 100% in the U.S.A., for military supply. Now if there's a slick loop whole around, through, over or under this requirement, I can assure you F.N. can find it. ;B)


Dose this make sense.?.?.?.

[wild_wild_wes]

Anyone think this will replace the M16/M4?

No. Not with LSAT on the horizon.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=139128&highlight=lsat

[jagermeister]

No. Not with LSAT on the horizon.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=139128&highlight=lsat


LSAT is vapor wear and if they do make it field ready it will be in many years. The SCAR is here and now ready to go but I doubt it will ever be issuid in large mass to the regular infantry.

[Stan187]

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/004323.html
SOF just ordered a bunch of them. Anyone think this will replace the M16/M4? M16A1 started out with Special Forces, so it sure is starting to look like a permanent replacement. It also looks like an easy switch over from M4/M16 also. Maybe their experience with this weapon will determine it's and the M4's future.

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/004324.html

Technically, it was adopted by SAC first, which it part of the Air Force.

[Stan187]

come on, guns always have dangerous parts. people get trained to use them safely, that's all. i don't see much soldiers who place their bodyparts ahead of barrel cut, or who grip gun barrel when shooting.
p-)


:backhand:

Wow that might have been the stupidest thing I've read this month, please never speak again, thanks.

[voncoz]

Well.........Voncoz I don't believe there is any mandatory percentages for civilian sales required. Where the requirement comes to play is for military sales. i.e. You want to supply our military with weapon platforms we can manufacture & supply parts for without any dependency of foreign sources. To my knowledge that requirement was a weapon made here 100% in the U.S.A., for military supply. Now if there's a slick loop whole around, through, over or under this requirement, I can assure you F.N. can find it. ;B)


Dose this make sense.?.?.?.
As long as I can get a SCAR-L this year. I'll be happy.

Thanks for the info.

[D.E. Watters]

Well.........Voncoz I don't believe there is any mandatory percentages for civilian sales required.

Actually, there is a mandatory domestic parts count if you want your rifle to keep features like a standard pistol grip, folding stock, and the ability to accept magazines with a capacity higher than 10 rds. The ATF ruled that you can't take solely imported parts to manufacture a firearm in a configuration in which it could not be legally imported. This became an issue after George H.W. Bush's import ban on certain semi-auto rifles, and was amplified by Clinton's import ban on semi-auto rifles capable of accepting standard capacity magazines (those holding more than 10 rds).

By having a proper amount of domestically produced parts, the rifle is considered to be US-built, and therefore, it is immune from the configuration regulations related to imported rifles.

[Ratamacue]

LSAT is vapor wear and if they do make it field ready it will be in many years. The SCAR is here and now ready to go but I doubt it will ever be issuid in large mass to the regular infantry.Considering that AAI has already built and is testing functional prototypes of their LSAT LMG, I don't see how it could be considered vaporware.

[killbot3000]

Actually, there is a mandatory domestic parts count if you want your rifle to keep features like a standard pistol grip, folding stock, and the ability to accept magazines with a capacity higher than 10 rds. The ATF ruled that you can't take solely imported parts to manufacture a firearm in a configuration in which it could not be legally imported. This became an issue after George H.W. Bush's import ban on certain semi-auto rifles, and was amplified by Clinton's import ban on semi-auto rifles capable of accepting standard capacity magazines (those holding more than 10 rds).

By having a proper amount of domestically produced parts, the rifle is considered to be US-built, and therefore, it is immune from the configuration regulations related to imported rifles.


proper amount as per 922r compliance is 10 or less foreign made parts for the weapon is to be considered "u.s. manufactured". that is, the total parts count of the rifle including the mag (3 parts), so simply said, if you want to use foreign made mags, then you can only have 7 foreign parts in the rifle itself. here's list of parts that atf will count as components of a rifle.

1) Receiver
(2) Barrel
(3) Trunnion
(4) Muzzle attachments(flash hiders, brakes, barrel extensions, barrel nuts)
(5) Bolt
(6) Bolt carrier
(7) Gas piston
(8) Trigger
(9) Hammer
(10) Disconnecter
(11) Buttstock
(12) Pistol grip
(13) Forearm handguards
(14) Magazine body
(15) Follower
(16) Floorplate

remember, this comes from the '89 aw ban of bush 1 (banning importation of foreign-made aw) so the ending of the '94 clinton aw ban (banning u.s. made aw) in 2004 has no bearing on the bush ban.

[SMGLee]

1) Receiver
(2) Barrel ------------US part
(3) Trunnion -----------US Part
(4) Muzzle attachments------------US Part
(5) Bolt
(6) Bolt carrier
(7) Gas piston -----------US Part
(8) Trigger
(9) Hammer
(10) Disconnecter
(11) Buttstock
(12) Pistol grip -----------US Part
(13) Forearm handguards
(14) Magazine body -----------US Part
(15) Follower -----------US Part
(16) Floorplate-----------US Part

I was told the following will also be US made parts in the production

(8) Trigger
(9) Hammer
(10) Disconnecter


That would make 11 parts.....

the Monolithic receiver is made overseas because FN has the extrude machine that is capable of extruding 7000 series aluminum in Belgium.

I don't why they could not move the stock molds over here for production also...

[SilentType]

EDITED:

I don't why they could not move the stock molds over here for production also...

They should it's got to be less costly to do production here than back in Belgium, plus it would help them position themselves for a larger DOD contract and that's what they really want.

I think they should be doing the whole thing over here as it would make sense from a cost and political/business perspective.

[SGMGSG9]

the Monolithic receiver is made overseas because FN has the extrude machine that is capable of extruding 7000 series aluminum in Belgium.

I don't why they could not move the stock molds over here for production also...


Come on SMGLee our plates all ready full man! ;B)

Voncoz I stand corrected. There apparently are parts percentages for domestic sales. I did not know that. If I misinformed anyone I apologize.

Is it me or dose the BATF just love to complicate issues!? ;B\

Thanks fella's (D.E. Watters, SMGLee & killbot3000) for setting the record straight.

[jagermeister]

Considering that AAI has already built and is testing functional prototypes of their LSAT LMG, I don't see how it could be considered vaporware.


same as the shrike! honestly though bud I hope they do get it in full scale production cause it looks like the next generation of weapons.

[D.E. Watters]

remember, this comes from the '89 aw ban of bush 1 (banning importation of foreign-made aw) so the ending of the '94 clinton aw ban (banning u.s. made aw) in 2004 has no bearing on the bush ban.

In 1998, there was a ruling that banned the import of semi-auto rifles capable of accepting "Large Capacity Military Magazines" (magazines holding more than 10 rds).

As far as I understand, this ruling has no expiration date, and has not been recinded by the current administration.

[SilentType]

In 1998, there was a ruling that banned the import of semi-auto rifles capable of accepting "Large Capacity Military Magazines" (magazines holding more than 10 rds).

As far as I understand, this ruling has no expiration date, and has not been recinded by the current administration.

Which explains why the SL8's that are imported are restricted to the 10 round mags and can not accept 30 round magazines used by the G36.

[killbot3000]

In 1998, there was a ruling that banned the import of semi-auto rifles capable of accepting "Large Capacity Military Magazines" (magazines holding more than 10 rds).

As far as I understand, this ruling has no expiration date, and has not been recinded by the current administration.


yeah, i should have been more specific, the laws are a bit confusing and i over simplified things, in hopes of not making it too confusing to follow. i urge those that are unfamiliar with gun laws to check with the atf as i am not a lawyer and should only take my post as general information not legal advice. the november '97 hi-cap ban was a separate issue to the '94 ban. you see the 922r and 922v clauses of the '94 ban was specifically meant as a fix of the '89 bush ban because the bush ban basically banned weapons with 2 or more of these "evil" features: bayo lugs, threaded barrels, folding stocks, pistol grips. as long as the imported weapon had only one of the following features, it's still legal to import. clinton was simply pissed that the importers were still importing ak's because they just removed the barrel threads and bayo lugs, or just replaced the pistol grip with a "butthole thumbstock". so 922r and 922v was (in theory) suppose to make it difficult and costly for importers by limiting foreign made content. however it didn't work out that way, importers simply slapped enough u.s. made parts in there to qualify them as "u.s. manufactured", and as long as they complied with the bush ban (2 or less evil features), neutered ak's were STILL legal. so as a last ditch attempt, clinton in nov. '97 enacted a temporary ban on importation of ak barrels, de-mil'ed military parts kit, and any semi-auto weapons capable of accepting hi-cap military mags. the ban became permanent in april of '98, and since it's a separate ban from the '94 ban, it is still in effect even with the end of the '94 clinton aw ban in 2004. importers simply skirted the '89 ban by making their imported ak's mag wells "single stacked" only, too narrow to accept double stacked hi-cap military mags. btw, the 922r and 922v was amended to the gca '68 so they are still in effect even though the '94 ban ended in 2004.

so now with the end of the clinton aw ban, it is perfectly legal to manufacture assault weapons again as long as it complies with 922r, so fn can go about manufacturing semi-auto scars as long as it uses less then 10 foreign made parts. since the '89 ban only pertains to imported weapons, domestically made assault weapons (922r compliant), is not affected. thats why it's legal now for owners of single stacked sl-8, can now manufacture a semi-auto g36 "look alike" assault weapon capable of accepting double stack military mags. they just slap enough u.s. made content to qualify their rifles as "u.s. manufactured" assault weapons. thats why there's ak's out there now with all the "evil" features because they have enough u.s. content to be considered u.s. manufactured.

hope that didn't confuse things even more.

[SilentType]

http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/index.htm

Knock yourself out folks. It's almost as thick as the phone book.

[voncoz]

I just got an email from FNH saying the SCAR will not be available till 2009. Can someone verify this?

[SilentType]

I just got an email from FNH saying the SCAR will not be available till 2009. Can someone verify this?


If the email came from FNH why would you need some poster on the internet to confirm it? Think ya got your confirmation process backwards.

The consensus from the rumors I've read is that the SCAR-L 16" Barrel Civilian rifles will not be available until the First Quarter of 2009 for purchase.

Unfortunately it is the industry standard that release dates are always pushed back. I can't recall a rifle that actually went to market in the time frame first projected by the manufacturer and certainly none that came out early.

I'm happy though as long as the folks who need this rifle for combat get them in a timely fashion. I can wait a few months for mine.

[Some Guy]

Its out there:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c265/rbrad/scar.jpg
Here w/ SWCC.