REQ: British Para SECTION Structure

[kinney_bmx]

Ive found a new stronger interest in the British Para Regiment and Pathfinder platoon and..
Ive searched around a bit and found no clear and current answer so i figured id ask here.
I was wondering how a Squad in the British Para Regiment is structured. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[baboon6]

AFAIK a para rifle section is structured the same as any other in the British Army i.e. 2 x 4-man fire-teams, 1 led by the section commander (a Cpl), the other by the 2IC (a LCpl). Weapons are usually 1x Minimi LMG, 1 x SA80- UGL and 2 x SA80 per team, though some sections in Afghanistan will have a GPMG instead of one of the Minimis. The section commander has the PRC-354 radio, everyone has PRR. Various thermal and image intensifying sights are issued.

[kinney_bmx]

Thank you so much baboon.

[andehbrown]

You may also find a variation that is 1x SA80 IW, 1x SA80 LSW, 1x SA80 UGL, 1x Minimi with the LSW in the DM role.

[Ubar]

LSW is rarely if ever used on operations by Para reg. GPMG is quite often used at a section level as well

[andehbrown]

I stand corrected.

[baboon6]

LSW is rarely if ever used on operations by Para reg. GPMG is quite often used at a section level as well

This seems to apply to most infantry units these days.

[PUG]

This seems to apply to most infantry units these days.

Something to do with them being pretty useless when put up against gimpys and minimis.

More of a novelty item. My opinion anyway. Just a **** load extra weight.

[Vince S]

Wasn't the LSW switched to a DMR role due to it's longer barrel?

[PUG]

Wasn't the LSW switched to a DMR role due to it's longer barrel?

Not yet witnessed it being used in conjunction with this. But it makes a lot of sense; the weapon packs a punch and the longer barrel does make a large difference. However, change + brit army doesn't go hand in hand and in regard to the original question, a Parachute Regiment section is pretty much the same as any other British Army section except we're a bunch of radge c*nts.

[Night Owl]

The Pathfinder Platoon structure is different from the Parachute Regiment,as you would expect, due to its particular role. Dismounted patrols can vary in size from 4 to 6 men and consist of a Patrol Commander, Lead Scout, Medic and a Signaler. This team can be supplemented by a Sniper and a secondary scout. This is the same configeration as UKSF troops.

Mounted troops consist of 2-4 vehicles. Motorbikes and Quads can also be intergrated into the patrol as a forward scouts to test the routes.

[oldsoak]

IIRC. Paras always favoured 2 gimpies per section, correct me if I am wrong. I believe the arguement was that they needed greater firepower to overcome opposition because they would always be outnumbered. That being the case, they saw no need for the LSW.

I must admit its a brave/insane bloke that sticks his head up when he's got two gimpies with switched on crews plus the remainder of a section bearing down on you. Very useful to have in defence too. Just needs lotsa link.

[baboon6]

IIRC. Paras always favoured 2 gimpies per section, correct me if I am wrong. I believe the arguement was that they needed greater firepower to overcome opposition because they would always be outnumbered. That being the case, they saw no need for the LSW.

I must admit its a brave/insane bloke that sticks his head up when he's got two gimpies with switched on crews plus the remainder of a section bearing down on you. Very useful to have in defence too. Just needs lotsa link.

2 PARA in the Falklands used this configuration, though some sections had 1x GPMG and 1x M79 grenade launcher. The 1 PARA company that went out to Sierra Leone for Operation Barras also had two GPMGs per section. Other than those two examples I don't know. From what I've read about British infantry in Afghanistan a section will have either 2x Minimi or 1x Minimi and 1x GPMG.

[Night Owl]

I'm sure that most of the blokes would prefer a GPMG each:):):)

The problem for the past few years has been the MoDs insistence that LSW was a war winning weapon. Para Reg sections prefer to have one per fire team but due numbers this is not always the case and the MINIMI, although a long time coming, has proved to be a excellent support weapon although the small calibre is restrictive over long range. A weapon like the Barrett REC7 (6.8mm round) would be a suitable upgrade for the poor SA-80.

[oldsoak]

The only things that will shift a well sited GPMG with switched on squaddies keeping a beady eye on things is armour, snipers or something like Milan.
The upgrade from the SA80 was the EM2 :-P
Seriously, the SA80A2 is here for a few years yet and it certainly is proving reliable with lots of "slottability" in foreign parts. A reasonable shot shooting from a supported position with a Susat on a properly zero'd rifle has got quite a decent reach.

[Hydro]

...the MINIMI, although a long time coming, has proved to be a excellent support weapon although the small calibre is restrictive over long range.


Minimi is proving very popular, but even before it was adopted in the mainstream, the MoD was aware that the Para version is very inaccurate past 300m, indeed noted this in the trials against LSW A2 back in 2000/2001. Though for section level engagements, and the fact that it's an area suppressive weapon, that doesn't seem to be proving that much of a problem.

[kinney_bmx]

Kind of a dumb question but lately ive happen to stumble upon pictures of Minimis with the SUSAT fitted. Does the SUSAT work good on the minimi? I would look at a picture not paying much attention and think elcan but then i would look and be liek wait no its a susat

And thanks for all the information guys :)

[Hydro]

I'd imagine the SUSAT on Minimi would mainly be for aiding in target ID, and as an aid to aiming rather than enabling pinpoint accuracy; you'll never get that from an open bolt LMG, especially one with such a short barrel as the Para.

[kinney_bmx]

I'd imagine the SUSAT on Minimi would mainly be for aiding in target ID, and as an aid to aiming rather than enabling pinpoint accuracy; you'll never get that from an open bolt LMG, especially one with such a short barrel as the Para.
Yeah i didnt think it would work too well for accuracy. Regarding the minimi does the british military have any non-para length barrels? or are they all the 13.7 inch or whatever it is?
Sorry to sound kinda like a geardo/airsoft guy. Ive actually never played airsoft in my life

[Hydro]

Yeah i didnt think it would work too well for accuracy. Regarding the minimi does the british military have any non-para length barrels? or are they all the 13.7 inch or whatever it is?
Sorry to sound kinda like a geardo/airsoft guy. Ive actually never played airsoft in my life



The standard Minimi has been in use by UKSF since (I believe) the mid to late 80's as the L108A1. Why the longer barrel variant hasn't been widely adopted I have no idea.

[Britboy]

Well aren't they QCBs? So you wouldn't even need to buy new MINIMIs, just getting the standard length barrels for the existing PARA MINIMIS would give you what you want.

Stock would still be different from the non-PARA model, but I don't see how that's a drama - in fact its probably better for close quarters and also Armoured Infantry. It'd be a full-barrel-length MINIMI with the stock from the PARA one - or rather, a PARA MINIMI with a full size barrel, depending on how you look at it; unless there are any other differences between regular MINIMI and PARA one besides barrel and stock?

If you REALLY wanted you could have the QMs hang onto the shorter, PARA length QCBs 'just in case' - I don't know, maybe they'd come in useful for FIBUA or if we ever get involved in a jungle war again.

But I may be off the mark...
Thoughts?
BB

[Para]

A typical Para Land Rover but many of the .5 machine guns have now been replaced with a automatic 40 mm grenade launcher that can fire a grenade 2 kilometres very accurately and lay a barrage of them down that would wipe most things out.

[Para]

A Picture of the 40mm grenade laucher

[Britboy]

That thing looks like a beast. I have fired an MG, and I have heard a grenade go off, but I just can't imagine what a grenade machine gun must be like. Lobbing explosions out to 2km - scary for the other side!

Para, are you carrying them and using them on tripods (like GPMG SF), or are they just mounted on vehicles?

Cheers
BB

[Hydro]

I've seen the GMG both mounted on WMIK and tripod mounted on the ground.

[Britboy]

Ooh. wouldnt like to carry the link for one of those :p

Unless they dismounted it from a WMIK just to put it into a defensive position, that'd make lugging it about a lot easier!

Regards
BB

[Night Owl]

The only time you see these bad boys in action is when they are mounted on a vehicle.

[Ubar]

The only time you see these bad boys in action is when they are mounted on a vehicle.

I totally agree, you never see them other than on a vehicle.













http://shed-o-love.com/para/3/z6.jpg

http://shed-o-love.com/para/3/yz9.jpg

bellend :roll:


EDIT- these and the wmiks aren't section level assets anyway so I don't know why they were posted in this thread

[muttbutt]

A Picture of the 40mm grenade laucher
1 Para?......

[Para]

Here is a better picture of the grenade launcher, I was with 1 Para many years ago, but I still get invited back for a meal and play with the latest gear.


http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l124/Paraman_01/SFSG5.jpg

[big_les]

Not yet witnessed it being used in conjunction with this. But it makes a lot of sense; the weapon packs a punch and the longer barrel does make a large difference.

Is there any data on this? Because I'd read (on arrse I think!) that the longer barrel only adds a few fps to the muzzle velocity of an already very accurate weapon. Which makes sense.

[RAFREGT.]

[http://shed-o-love.com/para/3/yz9.jpg


Whats the deal with the helmet on the right? doesn't look standard issue?!? In fact the cover on the other doesn't look UK pattern

[Ubar]

the deal with the helmet on the right? doesn't look standard issue?!? In fact the cover on the other doesn't look UK pattern

They are both standard mk6a with different covers

[big_les]

Yeah, I think it's just the angle that makes the right hand one look different. The covers look like field expedients to me - just painted cloth?

[RAFREGT.]

ok, the guy on the right looked to me to have an old American metal helmet on (vietnam era) ...must be my old eyes failing me.

[big_les]

Well, if it's any consolation, I see exactly what you mean. But knowing how deceptive photos can be, and how nuts the guy would have to be to have sought out a K-Pot or whatever rather than a nice safe Mk6a, on balance I think Ubar is right.

[RAFREGT.]

Well, if it's any consolation, I see exactly what you mean. But knowing how deceptive photos can be, and how nuts the guy would have to be to have sought out a K-Pot or whatever rather than a nice safe Mk6a, on balance I think Ubar is right.


LOL undoubtedly! made me look twice any way! you'd need more than a tin helmet to sit exposed like that anyway...brass balls perhaps!

[Night Owl]

I totally agree, you never see them other than on a vehicle.













http://shed-o-love.com/para/3/z6.jpg

http://shed-o-love.com/para/3/yz9.jpg

bellend :roll:


EDIT- these and the wmiks aren't section level assets anyway so I don't know why they were posted in this thread

Ubar, you need to cool your jets. Whats with the bell end? My point was that you don't see them being man packed around in a dismounted Para Reg patrol as a rule. :hug: