SBS men nicked by Spain

[Geezah]

TWO Special Boat Service commandos have been forced to quit the elite force after their cover was blown by bungling Spanish cops.

Royal Marines Andrew Smith, 26, and Gordon Athey, 28, were arrested in Malaga last month while on a secret mission to bring in equipment for an exercise in Gibraltar.

The coast road they were on is known as a drop-off point for smuggled drugs and police stopped them and locked them up for four hours while inquiries were made.

But then, in an astonishing bungle, copies of their identity cards bearing their names and pictures were leaked to a Spanish paper — and published. Top brass are furious at the gaffe.

A senior source said: “There is no way that these two men can continue in special forces after their identities have been compromised.

The Spanish have put their names and photo-ID cards into the public domain and basically blown their cover.

“Secrecy is the whole point of special forces operations so they will have to leave the SBS to return to being regular commandos. We are extremely angry with the Spanish.

“They have acted irresponsibly and should have kept the men’s IDs secret once it had been established that they were special forces.”

The men were carrying equipment, including a Zodiac dinghy, two outboard motors, diving equipment and boxes with Royal Navy markings, in an unmarked van.

It was claimed the load was destined for the British nuclear submarine HMS Trenchant, docked in Gibraltar. That was later denied.

The men were still held despite handing over their Nato ID cards. At one point, they had to give a coded password to confirm who they were.

Finally, it took the intervention of Britain’s top military commander in Gibraltar to secure their release.

Last night a police spokesman in Malaga said: “Because of the area they were in we thought we’d picked up a pair of smugglers.

“We were astonished when we found ourselves with two men claiming to be military.”

Another British source said: “To lose men in this way is infuriating. They have been hung out to dry — for nothing.”

Sun (http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004251460,00.html)

[W(M)D]

Did you get that from the arrse site?

[Geezah]

Royal Navy says sorry after Spanish arrest SBS pair


Two members of the Royal Marines Special Boat Service have been arrested while driving on the Costa del Sol carrying military equipment.

The lance-corporals were driving a van along the sea-front in Malaga in the early hours when they were stopped by police officers who suspected they might be smuggling drugs.

The area is a common entry point for traffickers bringing hashish into Spain from Morocco in fast dinghies.

The officers' suspicions seemed to be correct at first because the men's van contained an inflatable semi-rigid Zodiac dinghy and two powerful outboard motors.

But the pair, who also had diving equipment and boxes marked with Royal Navy emblems, said they were members of the Royal Navy on their way to exercises in Gibraltar. They were released after being held for four hours on May 18.

Spain's press said they were going to take part in exercises featuring the nuclear submarine Trenchant.

The MoD denied the vessel was involved in the alleged exercises, saying it was making a courtesy call in Gibraltar. The Spanish interior ministry said its National Centre for Intelligence was investigating the men's presence in Spain.

Defence sources said it was unlikely that their presence was related to an exercise. British special forces routinely test routes into and from areas around the world from where British citizens might need to be evacuated.

The Royal Navy has apologised for breaking an agreement preventing British troops from moving military equipment to Gibraltar via Spain. The Ministry of Defence said it was an "administrative error" which it regretted.



Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;sessionid=RNRHDBQF1KQ3HQFIQMGSM5OAVCBQWJVC?xml=/news/2004/06/02/wsbs02.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/06/02/ixworld.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=96627)

[moughoun]

Isn't that a kick in the arse, all that work to get into the SBS and to get busted for this, I feel sorryfor the 2 lad's

[rafaelcb]

It is not the first time British men are found doing strange things in Spain. A few years ago a full platoon of Gibraltar based men (don't remember if Army or Navy) was arrested in Sierra Nevada for doing military training with their uniforms on. (It is illegal in Spain to wear military or para-military uniforms unless you are part of the Spanish armed forces).
Last year, a few RM's decided to disembark in 'La Linea de la Concepción'. The incident was not very serious and officially blamed on an error, but it is very common the Gibraltar-spationed troops use the rest of Spain as a training place.
What would the british think if a similar situation would have happened on their land?

Anyway, the most interesting thing is what were those two doing? What was on the boxes that they refused to open and that the Malaga policemen did not force open?

I also hope that if the two men have been kicked out of the SBS, so has whoever sent them there. That's the one who deserves to be kicked out.

For those interested, there are some extensive articles in 'ABC' newspaper about the incident.

[Geezah]

For thos interested, there are some extensive articles in 'ABC' newspaper about the incident.

Link?

[ShadowNeo]

What would the british think if a similar situation would have happened on their land?

Well I think there was an incident during a NATO training exercise up here in Scotland, where some troops from another country (not sure which) strayed from the exercise area and flagged down civillian vehicles. This proved somewhat disconcerting for the occupants of the vehicles, concidering the Troops had rifles and all.

As far as i'm aware no action was taken against the incident.

[Argyll]

What would the british think if a similar situation would have happened on their land?

Well I think there was an incident during a NATO training exercise up here in Scotland, where some troops from another country (not sure which) strayed from the exercise area and flagged down civillian vehicles. This proved somewhat disconcerting for the occupants of the vehicles, concidering the Troops had rifles and all.

As far as i'm aware no action was taken against the incident.

They were Ukrainians I believe near Achlitibuie in the Summer Isles

[rafaelcb]

What would the british think if a similar situation would have happened on their land?

Well I think there was an incident during a NATO training exercise up here in Scotland, where some troops from another country (not sure which) strayed from the exercise area and flagged down civillian vehicles. This proved somewhat disconcerting for the occupants of the vehicles, concidering the Troops had rifles and all.

As far as i'm aware no action was taken against the incident.

Of course not; but the incidents I mentioned did NOT happen while on any kind of exercise. In this last one, not even the British Embassy in Madrid could confirm or deny who were those men. In fact, the Military officer in Gibraltar who could finally confirm that they were British military personnel did so after consulting himself with Britain.

The link of the 'ABC' article. (will need translation)
http://www.abc.es/abc/pg040602/prensa/noticias/Nacional/Politica/200406/02/NAC-NAC-040.asp

[Geezah]

The link of the 'ABC' article. (will need translation)
http://www.abc.es/abc/pg040602/prensa/noticias/Nacional/Politica/200406/02/NAC-NAC-040.asp

My co-worker is from Ecuador, so I'll get her to translate, those free online ones suck, thanks. :)

[Loco]

TWO Special Boat Service commandos have been forced to quit the elite force after their cover was blown by bungling Spanish cops.

The Spanish have put their names and photo-ID cards into the public domain and basically blown their cover.

?Secrecy is the whole point of special forces operations so they will have to leave the SBS to return to being regular commandos. We are extremely angry with the Spanish.

?They have acted irresponsibly and should have kept the men?s IDs secret once it had been established that they were special forces.?


Sun (http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004251460,00.html)
This information, as it is, is a crap, a full bull**** only good for saving the face of british military towards their own public opinion. This aren´t exactly the news we got in Spain.
1.Spanish cops weren´t bungling, british soldiers and british journalists were bungling.
2. This great phrase
We are extremely angry with the Spanish. Bull****. British army has the bad habit of abusing confidence of their allies. It´s not the first time british soldiers travel across Spain as they were tourists doint things that aren´t typical of tourists or training in our mountains. I talked before that of this when there was an incident like this in Mexico. This is a serious thing, really serious, and it has a deep relation with british ego. Really, nor a british officer or diplomatic has ever the face to even look like "angry" with spanish about this incident. Of course not. This soldiers deserved a kick in their ass as an "adios" from Spain.
3. A couple of years ago there were talks between GB and Spain about Gibraltar, and when it seemed a good point about sharing that base was reached by both sides, suddenly a series of incidents like this happened, with the clear objective of ruining the talks.
4. Gibraltar is a source of drugs and smuggling of everything towards Spain. Three years ago there was the incident of the nuclear submarine Tireless which had serious problems and was diverted from their final destiny in Plymouth to Gibraltar. I must say to people don´t know how is the area, that Gibraltar is a big bay, and the rock is in one side of the bay, at the other side of the bay there´s a big and populated spanish industrial port called Algeciras. British army put in danger spanish population, not to mention humilliation of the kind of this superb soldiers which were caught by bungling spanish cops.
5. Since Gibraltar is not in the EUnion, Spain can shut the border in the moment it wants. Without doubts I´m favourable to do that since many years ago. I´m sick of all this incidents.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

What would the british think if a similar situation would have happened on their land?

Well I think there was an incident during a NATO training exercise up here in Scotland, where some troops from another country (not sure which) strayed from the exercise area and flagged down civillian vehicles. This proved somewhat disconcerting for the occupants of the vehicles, concidering the Troops had rifles and all.

As far as i'm aware no action was taken against the incident.

They were Ukrainians I believe near Achlitibuie in the Summer Isles

There was a wee flap last year during last years exercise in the South West.

Tuesday, 23 September, 2003, 07:54 GMT 08:54 UK



Ukrainian marines stop drivers

The marines set up check points

An apology has been issued to civilians caught up in an incident involving armed soldiers taking part in a Nato exercise in south west Scotland.

Motorists using a public road in Wigtownshire were forced to stop by Ukrainian marines acting with French soldiers.

The events took place during an amphibious landing exercise at Luce Bay on Saturday.

Two armed Ukrainian marines, involved in a mock hunt for terrorists, had forced a number of vehicles on a coastal road near Port William to pull over.

Major John Pulman, a Nato exercise commander, confirmed that complaints had been made and immediate action had been taken.

Major Pulman said all troops involved had been given clear instructions not to engage civilians at any time.

"I think in this case we had a situation where we had some troops that were unfamiliar with their surroundings and possibly became over zealous in their application of what they were required to do," he said.

"We subsequently followed up by speaking to the commanding officer of the unit concerned and reiterating those instructions that were in place."

'Entirely unacceptable'

He added that a full review of the incident was under way.

Alex Fergusson, the MSP for Galloway and Upper Nithsdale, said he was deeply disturbed by the incident.

"This must have been a terrifying ordeal for some people who were simply enjoying a drive in the countryside, especially for the young children involved," said Mr Fergusson.

"I think it's unacceptable that this sort of thing should happen and I hope there are urgent investigations within the armed forces and the MoD and indeed Nato itself.

"It is entirely unacceptable in any shape or form."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/3131058.stm
Just to add that the fanny with the kids in the car who was left deeply distressed knew all about the exercise as he stays about a couple of miles from where the incident happened he is just one of these people who came to the area to get away from it all and has not stopped complaining since he arrived.

[LordHalbert]

Well if these SBS guys were so good, how did they blow their cover??

Perhaps removing these guys is a good thing. In some ways this was a good test of operating in a covert manner, which they obviously failed to do.

If they were caught during war (by enemies), these guys would never see the light of day again.

[Tane Angle]

Standard operating procedure is to present those RN ID cars (which they did), and to give the spoken password (which they did). The local authorities, even if they had arrested the men, should not have leaked the files.

Similar incidents have happened in America as well. Sometimes it costs people's lives, I am very sorry to say.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[Michael RVR]

Standard operating procedure is to present those RN ID cars (which they did), and to give the spoken password (which they did). The local authorities, even if they had arrested the men, should not have leaked the files.

Similar incidents have happened in America as well. Sometimes it costs people's lives, I am very sorry to say.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

This is ****ed :fork: If i were one of these two men, i'd head back to spain and have a serious talking to with the men who arrested them.

[SOG]

as bad as it sucks getting knocked from the group, something tells me they will be higly valued as independant contractors for a multitude of nations. greenbacks will heal some in time.

[Royal]

as bad as it sucks getting knocked from the group, something tells me they will be higly valued as independant contractors for a multitude of nations. greenbacks will heal some in time.

Only if/when they leave the Corps...

[martinexsquaddie]

Gibs British.
the people who live on Gib don't want to be ruled by spain and frankly i DON'T BLAME THEM. whats doubly ironic is spain has a similar enclave in morroco calle ceuta or something I don't think they have any plans to hand that back to the africans do they :lol:
typical misplaced spainish machismo

[rafaelcb]

Gibs British.
the people who live on Gib don't want to be ruled by spain and frankly i DON'T BLAME THEM. whats doubly ironic is spain has a similar enclave in morroco calle ceuta or something I don't think they have any plans to hand that back to the africans do they :lol:
typical misplaced spainish machismo

Man, every statement in your post is wrong.

a) The people who live in Gibraltar do NOT in fact live in Gibraltar. The majority live in Marbella, profiting from the tax heaven status of Gibraltar. They simply do not want to pay taxes. Neither British nor Spanish. That's the problem, and that's what need to be solved by Britain and Spain. Note that Gibraltarians are perfectly happy to use our free Hospitals and other public services when that suits them. Note that our Health System is quite good and paid with our taxes.

b) There is nothing similar between Ceuta and Melilla on one side and Gibraltar on the other. Gibraltar is a COLONY and Ceuta and Melilla are not (ask U.N. if you doubt this). They are as Spanish as the Canary Islands or Madrid. The Status of Ceuta and Melilla is the same as Istambul in regards to Turkey, or Alaska in regards of USA.

c) Spain is one of the less 'machist' countries in Europe. Look at some statistics, compare with the UK, and next time get informed before posting.

The whole affair (specially the British press reaction) is mainly a show of british arrogance. At least your MOD has apologized.

And again, those two men were quite stupid showing their Navy ID cards. Malaga Policemen will not be impressed by that, but if they are British, they can wander arround without any problem as long as they have a british Passport with them. Carrying an inflatable boat in a van is no crime.
Put yourself in the policemen's place. You find two guys in a van, lights off, carrying a zodiac, with no proper identification, misterious locked boxes in the van. The list of possibilities is mopre or less:

a) Drug dealers
b) Terrorists
c) Smugglers
d) Ilegal inmmigration
e) Idiots
f) Lost british tourists (strangely, these were NOT drunk)
......
......
......
z) SBS men on a secret mission. A very stupid mission. whoever ordered it was an idiot. Next time, in order to transport two boxes to Gibraltar, use UPS.

Anyway, my main question remains unanswered: what was on the misterious boxes ?

[martinexsquaddie]

tough Gibs british and staying british
whats the matter still annoyed about cadiz rofl

[ZeroPositive]

feel well sorry for those lads...

[oldsoak]

No intent to embarass the UK then.....
:roll:

[mocking_loudly_died]

Spain is an English brothel.

[n4292936]

thats a nice armchair you have their LordHalbert
:roll:

[Loco]

Spain is an English brothel.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/avatars/115806964140ae0b4b2ea3d.jpg
Yeah, and your momma is the queen of it and you´re the most expensive princess, how much is it little bastard?

[Gordon]

Gibs British.
the people who live on Gib don't want to be ruled by spain and frankly i DON'T BLAME THEM. whats doubly ironic is spain has a similar enclave in morroco calle ceuta or something I don't think they have any plans to hand that back to the africans do they :lol:
typical misplaced spainish machismo

Man, every statement in your post is wrong.

a) The people who live in Gibraltar do NOT in fact live in Gibraltar. The majority live in Marbella, profiting from the tax heaven status of Gibraltar. They simply do not want to pay taxes. Neither British nor Spanish. That's the problem, and that's what need to be solved by Britain and Spain. Note that Gibraltarians are perfectly happy to use our free Hospitals and other public services when that suits them. Note that our Health System is quite good and paid with our taxes.

b) There is nothing similar between Ceuta and Melilla on one side and Gibraltar on the other. Gibraltar is a COLONY and Ceuta and Melilla are not (ask U.N. if you doubt this). They are as Spanish as the Canary Islands or Madrid. The Status of Ceuta and Melilla is the same as Istambul in regards to Turkey, or Alaska in regards of USA.

c) Spain is one of the less 'machist' countries in Europe. Look at some statistics, compare with the UK, and next time get informed before posting.

The whole affair (specially the British press reaction) is mainly a show of british arrogance. At least your MOD has apologized.

And again, those two men were quite stupid showing their Navy ID cards. Malaga Policemen will not be impressed by that, but if they are British, they can wander arround without any problem as long as they have a british Passport with them. Carrying an inflatable boat in a van is no crime.
Put yourself in the policemen's place. You find two guys in a van, lights off, carrying a zodiac, with no proper identification, misterious locked boxes in the van. The list of possibilities is mopre or less:

a) Drug dealers
b) Terrorists
c) Smugglers
d) Ilegal inmmigration
e) Idiots
f) Lost british tourists (strangely, these were NOT drunk)
......
......
......
z) SBS men on a secret mission. A very stupid mission. whoever ordered it was an idiot. Next time, in order to transport two boxes to Gibraltar, use UPS.

Anyway, my main question remains unanswered: what was on the misterious boxes ?

They weren't trying to impress anyone by showing their ID's. Read what Tane and Royal said. They were / are military personal going about their business. I mean really .. even if you are in the SBS, SEAL's or whatever .... you can't do anything if you get pulled over by the police .. thats why they have plans in case that happens., ie' a password. You say this they know who you are.

It's not like they can pull out weapons and start shooting.

I know very little about special forces, but thats my 2 cents, I apologise if it's wrong.

[Gordon]

Of course if you have the gift of the gab you can play the policeman however you want, but that goes for everyone, and not just the SF guys.

[rafaelcb]

They weren't trying to impress anyone by showing their ID's. Read what Tane and Royal said. They were / are military personal going about their business. I mean really .. even if you are in the SBS, SEAL's or whatever .... you can't do anything if you get pulled over by the police .. thats why they have plans in case that happens., ie' a password. You say this they know who you are.

It's not like they can pull out weapons and start shooting.

I know very little about special forces, but thats my 2 cents, I apologise if it's wrong.

The password you talk about is something used to identify themselves in front of the British officers. It means nothing to anyone else. No one in the British Embassy had an idea of that password. And of course you can't inform every police corps of every allied nation of the passwords of your special forces.

From the policemen point of view, those people were two suspicious foreigners that claimed to work for a company called 'Royal Navy'. Being part of a foreign nation's military does NOT give any legal special status anywhere in the world. Quite the opposite. In most other circumstances they would have been considerd spies. Spain and Britain are good allies and the thing ended nicely, but if the same would have happened in North Korea those guys would have been in really deep ****.

In their position, I would have just told the policemen that I was lost and decided to sleep in the van. The policemen would have opened the van an seen the raft, but that's because I am planning to go diving. The whole thing is still suspicious, but even if I would have ended in the police station for a few hours until they check with Interpol my criminal record, they cannot arrest me for just having a raft in a van.
The case would have never appeared in the newspapers.

[Carlos]

They were / are military personal going about their business.


...which wasn't allowed.

So who's to blame here?



Royal Navy says sorry after Spanish arrest SBS pair
...

The Royal Navy has apologised for breaking an agreement preventing British troops from moving military equipment to Gibraltar via Spain. The Ministry of Defence said it was an "administrative error" which it regretted.



Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;sessionid=RNRHDBQF1KQ3HQFIQMGSM5OAVCBQWJVC?xml=/news/2004/06/02/wsbs02.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/06/02/ixworld.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=96627)

[mocking_loudly_died]

Spain is an English brothel.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/avatars/115806964140ae0b4b2ea3d.jpg
Yeah, and your momma is the queen of it and you´re the most expensive princess, how much is it little bastard?

Now now, don't get upset because your quaint little nation is the beer pot for a load of inebriated UK yokels.
Is it just the climate change or are you sniveling for a reason?

Amen.

[front]

The whole affair (specially the British press reaction) is mainly a show of british arrogance. At least your MOD has apologized.

"British arrogance" from the Daily Telegraph?! Surely not! No... no. You must be mistaken.

[/sarcasm]

cheers

front

[Royal]

The password you talk about is something used to identify themselves in front of the British officers. It means nothing to anyone else.

Wrong. It is a NATO wide procedure. Last time I checked, Spain was still part of NATO, despite Senor Zapatera.


No one in the British Embassy had an idea of that password.

Wrong. The Defence Attache and Assistant Defence Attaches, as well as the intelligence and security representatives would be well aware of the details.


And of course you can't inform every police corps of every allied nation of the passwords of your special forces.

How was the operation against Mairead Farrell, Sean Savage and Daniel McCann conducted then?


From the policemen point of view, those people were two suspicious foreigners that claimed to work for a company called 'Royal Navy'. Being part of a foreign nation's military does NOT give any legal special status anywhere in the world.

Wrong. NATO travel order anyone?


In their position, I would have just told the policemen that I was lost and decided to sleep in the van. The policemen would have opened the van an seen the raft, but that's because I am planning to go diving. The whole thing is still suspicious, but even if I would have ended in the police station for a few hours until they check with Interpol my criminal record, they cannot arrest me for just having a raft in a van.
The case would have never appeared in the newspapers.

And then you'd have been in even deeper **** when the police found the other rather more 'esoteric' items of kit.

They followed the NATO SOP in such situations. Their superiors f**ked up by not clearing the move through Madrid and the Malaga police f**ked up by not following their own SOPs.

[foxtrot023]

Standard operating procedure is to present those RN ID cars (which they did), and to give the spoken password (which they did). The local authorities, even if they had arrested the men, should not have leaked the files.

Similar incidents have happened in America as well. Sometimes it costs people's lives, I am very sorry to say.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

This is f*** :fork: If i were one of these two men, i'd head back to spain and have a serious talking to with the men who arrested them.

And do what? Say they are sorry for being detained carrying weapons and being undercover? Just be thankfull they were detained in an allied country, otherwise they would become crow´s bait. Anyway, how would you feel if a couple of our SF guys were detained in a similar situation?

And Mocking Loudly Died, the only reason you guys reproduce is due to fog and beer

[Argyll]

What's with the arrogance of some of the Spanish members here?
You're acting high and mighty all of a sudden,and acting pretty bullish,shame you didn't act so bullish when the Spanish Troops were "Forced" to withdraw from Iraq before completing their mission.

My 2 cents here is that these Cops thought they would be smart,and act like cocks,to humiliate the British ,and blatantly decided upon themselves to blow this story,and the cover of the SBS guys,it's not like they were doing something devious,they followed their SOP's.........the Spanish Cops did not..........

[rafaelcb]

The password you talk about is something used to identify themselves in front of the British officers. It means nothing to anyone else.

Wrong. It is a NATO wide procedure. Last time I checked, Spain was still part of NATO, despite Senor Zapatera.

We are not talking about the same passwords. The whole checking procedure was like this;
The SBS men gave them only to the British military officer in Gibraltar.
The line was hung
After 15 minutes, the British Officer in Gibraltar phoned back to the police station and confirmed that those two were british officers.
They were released with their equipment.




No one in the British Embassy had an idea of that password.

Wrong. The Defence Attache and Assistant Defence Attaches, as well as the intelligence and security representatives would be well aware of the details.

No, they weren't. And besides, NO ONE answered the phone in the British Embassy




And of course you can't inform every police corps of every allied nation of the passwords of your special forces.

How was the operation against Mairead Farrell, Sean Savage and Daniel McCann conducted then?

The 'operation' was done in Gibraltar, and of course Spain (or anyone else) was NOT informed.
Sidenote:The European Court of Human Rights condemned the killing of three Irish activists by British SAS troops in Gibraltar, a British colony on the southern tip of Spain, in 1988. The Court found that there was no justification for the shooting deaths of Mairead Farrell, Daniel McCann, and Sean Savage. I am not a fan of any terrorist group, but fighting terrorism with terror is never a good idea. Look at Irak now.




From the policemen point of view, those people were two suspicious foreigners that claimed to work for a company called 'Royal Navy'. Being part of a foreign nation's military does NOT give any legal special status anywhere in the world.

Wrong. NATO travel order anyone?

This does not apply at all. That's why your MoD has apologised. They were not under NATO command.




In their position, I would have just told the policemen that I was lost and decided to sleep in the van. The policemen would have opened the van an seen the raft, but that's because I am planning to go diving. The whole thing is still suspicious, but even if I would have ended in the police station for a few hours until they check with Interpol my criminal record, they cannot arrest me for just having a raft in a van.
The case would have never appeared in the newspapers.

And then you'd have been in even deeper **** when the police found the other rather more 'esoteric' items of kit.

Maybe. The more 'esoteric' part of the kit is what intrigued me into this thread. Still, it is not clear whether the police can force open two locked boxes. (In fact, they were never opened). I guess they would need a judicial permit to do that. But of course, the boxes were marked 'Royal Navy' so it is hardly possible that they were missed by the policemen.
Sorry, but the whole idea of using SBS men for driving parcels arropund Europe is very stupid. They would have also been found if they would have a car accident, or the van fails, or any other possible incident.

[rafaelcb]

What's with the arrogance of some of the Spanish members here?
You're acting high and mighty all of a sudden,and acting pretty bullish,shame you didn't act so bullish when the Spanish Troops were "Forced" to withdraw from Iraq before completing their mission.

My 2 cents here is that these Cops thought they would be smart,and act like cocks,to humiliate the British ,and blatantly decided upon themselves to blow this story,and the cover of the SBS guys,it's not like they were doing something devious,they followed their SOP's.........the Spanish Cops did not..........

Moderator,
You did not moderate anything when some on the forum insulted our Nation. :(

No one has humilliated the British. They were very well treated and every effort was made (at 3 am) in order to clarify their claims. In most other countries in the world they would have been locked at least until next morning. It is unfair of you to blame some local policemen who in fact went into a lot of trouble for those two.
I am not blaming the two guys who got caught but whoever sent them in such a stupid task.

[EvanL]

Mate. Go take a Siesta.

[Argyll]

The password you talk about is something used to identify themselves in front of the British officers. It means nothing to anyone else.

Wrong. It is a NATO wide procedure. Last time I checked, Spain was still part of NATO, despite Senor Zapatera.

We are not talking about the same passwords. The whole checking procedure was like this;
The SBS men gave them only to the British military officer in Gibraltar.
The line was hung
After 15 minutes, the British Officer in Gibraltar phoned back to the police station and confirmed that those two were british officers.
They were released with their equipment.




No one in the British Embassy had an idea of that password.

Wrong. The Defence Attache and Assistant Defence Attaches, as well as the intelligence and security representatives would be well aware of the details.

No, they weren't. And besides, NO ONE answered the phone in the British Embassy




And of course you can't inform every police corps of every allied nation of the passwords of your special forces.

How was the operation against Mairead Farrell, Sean Savage and Daniel McCann conducted then?

The 'operation' was done in Gibraltar, and of course Spain (or anyone else) was NOT informed.
Sidenote:The European Court of Human Rights condemned the killing of three Irish activists by British SAS troops in Gibraltar, a British colony on the southern tip of Spain, in 1988. The Court found that there was no justification for the shooting deaths of Mairead Farrell, Daniel McCann, and Sean Savage. I am not a fan of any terrorist group, but fighting terrorism with terror is never a good idea. Look at Irak now.




From the policemen point of view, those people were two suspicious foreigners that claimed to work for a company called 'Royal Navy'. Being part of a foreign nation's military does NOT give any legal special status anywhere in the world.

Wrong. NATO travel order anyone?

This does not apply at all. That's why your MoD has apologised. They were not under NATO command.




In their position, I would have just told the policemen that I was lost and decided to sleep in the van. The policemen would have opened the van an seen the raft, but that's because I am planning to go diving. The whole thing is still suspicious, but even if I would have ended in the police station for a few hours until they check with Interpol my criminal record, they cannot arrest me for just having a raft in a van.
The case would have never appeared in the newspapers.

And then you'd have been in even deeper **** when the police found the other rather more 'esoteric' items of kit.

Maybe. The more 'esoteric' part of the kit is what intrigued me into this thread. Still, it is not clear whether the police can force open two locked boxes. (In fact, they were never opened). I guess they would need a judicial permit to do that. But of course, the boxes were marked 'Royal Navy' so it is hardly possible that they were missed by the policemen.
Sorry, but the whole idea of using SBS men for driving parcels arropund Europe is very stupid. They would have also been found if they would have a car accident, or the van fails, or any other possible incident.

You seem to know a lot more about this than the Press,the Spanish Police,and also the MOD.........or are you assuming?

How can you possibly know what the exchange between the Police and the SBS guys was?
When people were slagging off the Spanish,and for most of that you needed to look to who was doing it,another Spanish member,I issued warnings and locked some topics.

Using SF to do this type of work is not stupid,they don't just kick in doors mate,they're also adept at survaillance work etc.
Your concept of "Under command" is also confusing,see if they are part of NATO,they fall under the command of NATO,how do you know for sure that NATO travel orders were not issued,just because the orders did not originate from Brussels,soesn't mean a travel order was not issued?

[Royal]

The password you talk about is something used to identify themselves in front of the British officers. It means nothing to anyone else.

Wrong. It is a NATO wide procedure. Last time I checked, Spain was still part of NATO, despite Senor Zapatera.

We are not talking about the same passwords. The whole checking procedure was like this;
The SBS men gave them only to the British military officer in Gibraltar.
The line was hung
After 15 minutes, the British Officer in Gibraltar phoned back to the police station and confirmed that those two were british officers.
They were released with their equipment.

If they were released within 15 minutes with everything resolved, why where their details released? Why didn't the police contact Madrid?




No one in the British Embassy had an idea of that password.

Wrong. The Defence Attache and Assistant Defence Attaches, as well as the intelligence and security representatives would be well aware of the details.

No, they weren't. And besides, NO ONE answered the phone in the British Embassy

You just said that the embassy wasn't contacted, it was dealt with through Gib. How do you know the phone wasn't answered? Ever worked in/with an embassy? Ever heard of a 24hr duty officer?



]
And of course you can't inform every police corps of every allied nation of the passwords of your special forces.

How was the operation against Mairead Farrell, Sean Savage and Daniel McCann conducted then?

The 'operation' was done in Gibraltar, and of course Spain (or anyone else) was NOT informed.
Sidenote:The European Court of Human Rights condemned the killing of three Irish activists by British SAS troops in Gibraltar, a British colony on the southern tip of Spain, in 1988. The Court found that there was no justification for the shooting deaths of Mairead Farrell, Daniel McCann, and Sean Savage. I am not a fan of any terrorist group, but fighting terrorism with terror is never a good idea. Look at Irak now.

The Spanish were not informed? Where do you think the intelligence came from? Who conducted the surveillance in Spain. Oh yeah, the Spanish authorities :cantbeli:



]

From the policemen point of view, those people were two suspicious foreigners that claimed to work for a company called 'Royal Navy'. Being part of a foreign nation's military does NOT give any legal special status anywhere in the world.

Wrong. NATO travel order anyone?

This does not apply at all. That's why your MoD has apologised. They were not under NATO command.

Since when did you have to be operating under NATO command to have a NATO travel order? I've travelled on leave in Europe on a NATO travel order...



]

In their position, I would have just told the policemen that I was lost and decided to sleep in the van. The policemen would have opened the van an seen the raft, but that's because I am planning to go diving. The whole thing is still suspicious, but even if I would have ended in the police station for a few hours until they check with Interpol my criminal record, they cannot arrest me for just having a raft in a van.
The case would have never appeared in the newspapers.

And then you'd have been in even deeper **** when the police found the other rather more 'esoteric' items of kit.

Maybe. The more 'esoteric' part of the kit is what intrigued me into this thread. Still, it is not clear whether the police can force open two locked boxes. (In fact, they were never opened). I guess they would need a judicial permit to do that. But of course, the boxes were marked 'Royal Navy' so it is hardly possible that they were missed by the policemen.
Sorry, but the whole idea of using SBS men for driving parcels arropund Europe is very stupid. They would have also been found if they would have a car accident, or the van fails, or any other possible incident.

Maybe they should have FedEx'ed it :cantbeli:

[rafaelcb]

You seem to know a lot more about this than the Press,the Spanish Police,and also the MOD.........or are you assuming?
How can you possibly know what the exchange between the Police and the SBS guys was?



No, I've read it in the newspapers. Contray to the British press that seems to prefer publishing fake pictures of soldiers pissing on captives, Spanish press concentrates on actual information. Since this is going too far, I've translated the first article that appeared on this topic (se below).



Using SF to do this type of work is not stupid,they don't just kick in doors mate,they're also adept at survaillance work etc.
Your concept of "Under command" is also confusing,see if they are part of NATO,they fall under the command of NATO,how do you know for sure that NATO travel orders were not issued,just because the orders did not originate from Brussels,soesn't mean a travel order was not issued?

Because your MoD HAS APOLOGISED= Recognized they made a mistake. There was no NATO mission going arround. This was a purely, 100% British-made job. I have a lot of respect for British military. Please don't try to defend this fiasco.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the general interest, translation of the first article I read about this.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Two British military members arrested in Malaga while on a secret mission.

The strange story kept Malaga local police busy for several hours. A real 'spy movie' in teh 'Costa del Sol'

MALAGA. The 'Centro Nacional de Inteligencia' (CNI) has opened an investigation on the presence in Malaga the past 18 of May of a commando of the British special forces whose mission could be related to the dockage in Gibraltar of nuclear submarine "HMS Trenchant". The commando was formed by the two military of the Royal Navy, identified as Andrew William Harry Smith, 26 years old, and Wayne Gordon Athey, 28 years old.

Both traveled in a Volkswagen Sprinter van, of white color, with Gibraltar number plates. The vehicle, that circulated at 2.0 am around the Pacific street in the direction of the condo 'Sacaba Beach', raised suspicions to a patrol of the Local Police of Malaga. By the dimensions of the van and the zone where it was - usual place of drug disembarkation -, the agents thought that they dealt with a new operation of drug trafficking.

A camouflaged vehicle of the local police was called. The van was followed all along Sacaba Beach, the Paseo Marítimo Pablo Ruiz Picasso and a little road that goes to 'El Palo'. The van was moving very slowly, like searching for something on the beaches.

When the vehicle was about to leave Malaga prefecture it was stopped by four police cars. The drivers were identified by their passports and asked to open the van. The policemen found a large number of military equipment, two powerfull outboard engines, an inflatable boat, and automatic inflating machine, diving equipment and locked boxes in the Royal Navy anagram on them.

The two men informed that policement that they were british military personnel -they showed the their IDs- and were transporting equipment from England to Gibraltar. They also showed some NATO IDs. They were taken to the East police station in order to verify their claims.

The local policemen informed the Guardia Civil, and the officer there thought that it was not a reasonable way of transporting military equipment. The policemen tried to reach the Spanish Navy in Malaga but no one answered the phone. Then they phoned the Air Base and the officer in charge also thought it was strange and confirmed that there was no NATO exercise in the area. The National Police response was similar.
Neither the names of the two persons nor the data of the vehicle could be found the the computer database. The policemen tried to contact the British Consulate but no one answered the call.

Since some hours had passed and there was no legal reason to retain the suspects, they were informed that they were not under arrest but they should wait until some formal procedures were finished. One of them phonen his officers in England who ordered them to collaborate with Malaga police.

At 4:00 A.M Malaga Police was able to reach inspector Michael Ruiz, of Gibraltar police said to be surprised by the story and suggested that Malaga police should contact Mr Coleman, of the British Military Authorities in Gibraltar. This Officer informed Malaga police that he would need to verify the identities of the two men using security passwords, so he would need to talk with them. The two men spelled and alphanumeric code to the officer and shortly after the call was finished.

Shortly after Mr. Coleman phoned backand informed that the two men were members of the Royal Navy and were part of a secret mission trasporting military equipment from England to Gibraltar. He added that it was important that the equipment reached the base as soon as possible because it was needed for a tactical exercise that would take plce the 21st of May. The local policement could not believe what they were hearing. The British Officer explained that normally the transport of military equipment was done by plane or boat but since the majority of the naval and aerial forces are now in Irak it was decided to transport this by land.
However, the Spanish Ministry of Defense had not authorised this transport.

After the information given by Coleman and since there were not formal charges against the two men, they were set free at 6:00

http://www.abc.es/abc/pg040601/prensa/fotos/200406/01/NAC_NAC_web_6.jpg

[Argyll]

An apology is not an acceptance of wrong doing Rafael,it's being curteious,how many times you said sorry,and din't mean it?.......it's called politics mate.

The Spanish Police breached OPSEC and PERSEC,by relasing the names and the pictures of these guys..........and that's more serious than having a van full of kit,thanks to the Spanish Police these guys lives will be put in jeapordy..........The local cops dropped the ball with this one,the Marines gave ID's,and that should have been enough to satisfy them.

But to release the whole story to the press reeks of self importance,perhaps the British Police should start doing the same to Spaniards coming into Britain?

Royal,
I don't know about you but this whole thing sucks big time!!

[front]

"However, the Spanish Ministry of Defense had not authorised this transport."

Really? Is this right?

We have SBS transporting equipment across a sovereign nation without it's permission?

Does the SBS even need the permission of the Spanish Government to operate in Spain?

cheers

front

[rafaelcb]

perhaps the British Police should start doing the same to Spaniards coming into Britain?


Please give ONE single example of a similar situation involving Spanish forces in Britain.

[Felix]

Those spanish cops are serious buggers, aren't they. I was on leave once in Spain after an exercise,and I got a mean pounding from some cop after I got pulled over drunk. They are very professional, but they don't **** around. good for them.

[MARINO]

What's with the arrogance of some of the Spanish members here?
You're acting high and mighty all of a sudden,and acting pretty bullish,shame you didn't act so bullish when the Spanish Troops were "Forced" to withdraw from Iraq before completing their mission.

I thinkl that most of Spanish who post in this forum were against this coward action from our governmnet, specially me, so you have nothing to say about this.

For the SBS, they should have Spanish authorities, and Spanish police, shouldn't have published thei Identifications.
Both Brits and Spaniards, we had made a lot of mistakes in this subject.

[Argyll]

Oh I'm sure as hell there have been Spanish Intelligence Officers coming in and out of Britain for years,and not on vacation either ;)

It's called playing the game.........everyones at it,the Spanish are no different,after all they were also in Iraq were they not?

[Tane Angle]

It's called playing the game.........everyones at it

Excellent point. Let's face it, we all train on one another's lands, with and without one another's permission. We all spy on one another too, no?

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[Argyll]

There are still Spaniards in Iraq,I saw some Spanish Police at BIAP the other day ;)

[California Joe]

It turned into what we call in the US a "clusterf*ck"

What's with the questioning of the veracity of Royal, Tane or Argyll? You better check it 'fore you wreck it son. Even some yokel sheriff down heah in east buttf*ck Virginia wouldn't have leaked their identities to the press. That was lame.

On a separate note, the 2 soldiers are now identified. Is it not plausible that they may still serve in a shooter type capacity in Iraq or Afghanistan where frankly, we all look alike to them?

[Trigger]

Maybe we can just surgically alter their faces like Travolta and Cage in 'Face Off'.

What?

[martinexsquaddie]

just send them to a bar in colchester wearing marine t-shirts should be easy enough to arrange some cheap facial surgery :( :lol:

[California Joe]

Seriously, much ado is made about the identities of our elite commandos when in reality the average person is so entirely oblivious to the world around them that the simplest id is impossible. If these guys grew Van Dykes they would be unrecognizable.

[Trigger]

...as opposed to Japanese sub-compact Dykes.

*shutting up now* :D

[Argyll]

Is it true Holland is full of "Dykes" ;)

[Royal]

The two men informed that policement that they were british military personnel -they showed the their IDs- and were transporting equipment from England to Gibraltar. They also showed some NATO IDs. They were taken to the East police station in order to verify their claims.

My emphasis. NATO travel orders.

As I and Marino have already said, the headsheds on both sides f**ked up. Two badly needed shooters canned.


Seriously, much ado is made about the identities of our elite commandos when in reality the average person is so entirely oblivious to the world around them that the simplest id is impossible. If these guys grew Van Dykes they would be unrecognizable.

We Brits have been paranoid about PerSec since the rise of PIRA in the early 70's, for the good and simple reason that they try to kill us. Contrary to popular opinion they are alive and well, happily running drugs and kneecapping 'hooligans' and would happily top a member of UKSF. Al Q and it's various tentacles are also quite capable of collating open source information and using it in future Ops - whether for assassination or for gathering wider Int on units and personalities.

[MARINO]

:( Bad days in Spain since March 11th

[mocking_loudly_died]

:( Bad days in Spain since March 11th

Think of what you could do with this newfound socialist zeal!
You could rebuild the Armada.

[California Joe]

We Brits have been paranoid about PerSec since the rise of PIRA in the early 70's, for the good and simple reason that they try to kill us. Contrary to popular opinion they are alive and well, happily running drugs and kneecapping 'hooligans' and would happily top a member of UKSF. Al Q and it's various tentacles are also quite capable of collating open source information and using it in future Ops - whether for assassination or for gathering wider Int on units and personalities.

Good point. As always.

[SOG]

:( Bad days in Spain since March 11th

Think of what you could do with this newfound socialist zeal!
You could rebuild the Armada.

what the mother **** happened to your sweet asian ass!? i demand you go back to being asian so i may continue mentally pleasuring you!

[SOG]

It turned into what we call in the US a "clusterf*ck"

What's with the questioning of the veracity of Royal, Tane or Argyll? You better check it 'fore you wreck it son. Even some yokel sheriff down heah in east buttf*ck Virginia wouldn't have leaked their identities to the press. That was lame.

On a separate note, the 2 soldiers are now identified. Is it not plausible that they may still serve in a shooter type capacity in Iraq or Afghanistan where frankly, we all look alike to them?

hell yeah, thats what i said on page one, theres no way they are going to stick around with demoted status. ive seen my bosses refuse to do work beneath them, something tells me if you have men of this caliber, they arent going to return to what they were doing before they busted there humps to become the best.

sure getting caught sucks, but it beats machismo BS and trying to run from the cops and adding a few charges to the bill and making even more of a spectacle. theyll go freelance and make serious greenbacks like our friend TP!

[mocking_loudly_died]

:( Bad days in Spain since March 11th

Think of what you could do with this newfound socialist zeal!
You could rebuild the Armada.

what the mother f*** happened to your sweet asian ass!? i demand you go back to being asian so i may continue mentally pleasuring you!

I'm now a texan goddess with shiny blue hair.
Blue upstairs and blue downstairs.

[SOG]

:( Bad days in Spain since March 11th

Think of what you could do with this newfound socialist zeal!
You could rebuild the Armada.

what the mother f*** happened to your sweet asian ass!? i demand you go back to being asian so i may continue mentally pleasuring you!

I'm now a texan goddess with shiny blue hair.
Blue upstairs and blue downstairs.

blasphemey!..... downstairs too? ....... giggle....... gideeeeup!

[Tane Angle]

Downstairs? Umm...kinky....Gives new meaning to the term "blue Cookie Monster."

[foxtrot023]

What's with the arrogance of some of the Spanish members here?
You're acting high and mighty all of a sudden,and acting pretty bullish,shame you didn't act so bullish when the Spanish Troops were "Forced" to withdraw from Iraq before completing their mission.

My 2 cents here is that these Cops thought they would be smart,and act like cocks,to humiliate the British ,and blatantly decided upon themselves to blow this story,and the cover of the SBS guys,it's not like they were doing something devious,they followed their SOP's.........the Spanish Cops did not..........

Wrong,

Tell me why we should let members of other country armed forces walz through Spain?

The police acted when they saw 2 foreign guys acting strange, period. If it was an official NATO business, how come it wasn`t cleared with us?

In some countries, those 2 soldiers would have been treated as spies, you know

[Royal]

If it was an official NATO business, how come it wasn`t cleared with us?

I'll quote it again, as it clearly isn't getting through.



The two men informed that policement that they were british military personnel -they showed the their IDs- and were transporting equipment from England to Gibraltar. They also showed some NATO IDs. They were taken to the East police station in order to verify their claims.

My emphasis. NATO travel orders.

[sethen]

If the Spanish had any sense they would seize Gibraltar while the British are distracted in Iraq/Afghanistan. I mean really what could the British do to Spain without America???

[MARINO]

If the Spanish had any sense they would seize Gibraltar while the British are distracted in Iraq/Afghanistan. I mean really what could the British do to Spain without America???

With Zapatero?, If he had the possibility, he would offer Spain to France or to UK and it would be the end of Gibraltar's problem.
It's a joke, but it's sad.

[foxtrot023]

If the Spanish had any sense they would seize Gibraltar while the British are distracted in Iraq/Afghanistan. I mean really what could the British do to Spain without America???

With Zapatero?, If he heas the possibility, he would offer Spain France or to UK and it would be the end of Gibralter's problem.
It's a joke, but it's sad.

Yeah, Zapatero is a guy who doesn`t take a dump because he is afraid of offending the sensibilities of any future user of the toilet, the toilet itself, the water and of course, the poor fish that eventually end up eating his crap.

[oldsoak]

Is this all it takes for talk of seizeing Gibraltar ?

[Gringo]

Wow! Some of you guys are genius in gathering intelligence, you could work in the Intelligence service.......




















..... or the tabloids.

[sethen]

If the Spanish had any sense they would seize Gibraltar while the British are distracted in Iraq/Afghanistan. I mean really what could the British do to Spain without America???

With Zapatero?, If he heas the possibility, he would offer Spain France or to UK and it would be the end of Gibralter's problem.
It's a joke, but it's sad.

Yeah, Zapatero is a guy who doesn`t take a dump because he is afraid of offending the sensibilities of any future user of the toilet, the toilet itself, the water and of course, the poor fish that eventually end up eating his crap.

I guess yall are right! It takes POLITICAL WILL to do something like this.
And they don't have the will for war making at the present.

[moughoun]

And the fact that the majority of people on Gibralter want to stay as Brit's doesn't even come into it :roll:

[MARINO]

Ozú. in Gibraltar dei spik inglish laik dat, dei ar iven mor Spanis dan me. Dei guant to stai inglis for avantges.

[Gringo]

Ozú. in Gibraltar dei spik inglish laik dat, dei ar iven mor Spanis dan me. Dei guant to stai inglis for avantges.

que?

[moughoun]

Ozú. in Gibraltar dei spik inglish laik dat, dei ar iven mor Spanis dan me. Dei guant to stai inglis for avantges.

So they are all lying and secretly want to be Spainish but are cunningly taking advantage of the Brit's, clever bastard's why didn't we think of that :cantbeli:

[MARINO]

They had a marked Spanish accent, and a south Spanish accent wich is worst.
:D :D
It's funny to talk in english with them.
And no they don't want to become Spanish.
I ahve the solution. You bring them into Brit island, you give to us the whole city, and if you want yo can keep your naval base( Thats why your governement want to keep Gibraltar, just for th base).
We have Rota and Cartagena naval bases near, and we have the straight under control, so :hug:
Everybody is happy, and everybody is OK. :hug:

[moughoun]

They had a marked Spanish accent, and a south Spanish accent wich is worst.
:D :D
It's funny to talk in english with them.
And no they don't want to become Spanish.
I ahve the solution. You bring them into Brit island, you give to us the whole city, and if you want yo can keep your naval base( Thats why your governement want to keep Gibraltar, just for th base).
We have Rota and Cartagena naval bases near, and we have the straight under control, so :hug:
Everybody is happy, and everybody is OK. :hug:

You can't just move people on a whim against their will

[MARINO]

Ok, so they stay in Spain, and staying Brithish, there is a lot of British living here in spain. And Gibraltar returns under spanish sovereignty.

Gibraltar is not a problem for me, we have all the Straigt totally under control, in both sides, Africa and Europe. For me the biggest problem with gibraltar, is drugs traffic. And illegal money traffic.

[moughoun]

Ok, so they stay in Spain, and staying Brithish, there is a lot of British living here in spain. And Gibraltar returns under spanish sovereignty.

GB is not a problem for me, we have all the Straigt totally under control. From me the biggest problem with gibraltar, is drugs traffic. And illegal money traffic.

I don't want to pee on you parade but what has drug trafficking ect got to do with getting the rock back?

[MARINO]

They wouldn't have all the adventages of being a colony, who allows them to traffic with drugs, and dirty money, and differents knid of illegal traffic.
Cause UK doesn't want to prevent it.

[moughoun]

They wouldn't have all the adventages of being a colony, who allows them to traffic with drugs, and dirty money, and differents knid of illegal traffic.
Cause UK doesn't want to prevent it.

Why don't they want to prevent it?

[MARINO]

Don't know, but there are everyday, operations in the Staigt with choopers and fast boats from Guardia Civil and Aduanas(frontier guards) to capture trafficants. The pursuits are really amazing, and it's cool to see those videos. They fly near from water to forces trafficants to stop.

[sethen]

They wouldn't have all the adventages of being a colony, who allows them to traffic with drugs, and dirty money, and differents knid of illegal traffic.
Cause UK doesn't want to prevent it.

100% correct my friend! I wanted to say something aboout the drug/money/weapons laundering issue but you beat me to it! Have you ever read Dope, Inc.? The british traffic drugs worldwide and also keep it illegal in most contries it is an excellent dual purpose system.

[MARINO]

Dope, Inc? never how is it?

[Argyll]

Getting off topic guys ;)

[MARINO]

:roll: :D
True, sorry hwo we say in spain, nos hemos ido por las ramas.

[Loco]

I paste the news about this incident published in the newspaper ABC last wednesday, because it was the longest article I could read in any spanish newspaper:
http://www.abc.es/abc/pg040602/prensa/noticias/Nacional/Politica/200406/02/NAC-NAC-040.asp

España exige a Londres que explique la presencia de sus agentes en Málaga
LUIS AYLLÓN/ MADRID.

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El Gobierno expresó una enérgica protesta al Reino Unido tras haber sido detenidos en Málaga dos militares británicos en misión secreta, cuya presencia en territorio español no fue comunicada a nuestro país. Tanto desde el Ministerio de Defensa como desde el de Asuntos Exteriores se exigió a los representantes diplomáticos británicos en España una explicación de lo sucedido y el compromiso formal de que casos como este no volverán a reptirse, según supo ABC de fuentes de ambos departamentos.

La presencia de los dos militares, Andrew William Harry Smith y Wayne Gordon Athey, que viajaban en una furgoneta que levantó sospechas, fue detectada el 18 de mayo por la Policía local malagueña, como informó este periódico. Los agentes, que portaban material militar, fueron detenidos y, tras las comprobaciones pertinentes sobre su identidad, que les acreditaba como miembros de la Royal Navy, quedaron en libertad cuatro horas más tarde, sin que dejaran clara cuál era su misión, que podría estar relacionada con la presencia en Gibraltar del submarino nuclear «HMS Trenchant».

«Inaceptable e inapropiado»

Al día siguiente, desde el Ministerio de Defensa español se convocó al agregado de Defensa de la Embajada británica, Nigel Dedman, para pedirle explicaciones de la presencia de los militares y exgir la presentación de excusas por un incidente que se considera «inaceptable e inapropiado entre dos países aliados», según las mismas fuentes.

En términos similares se expresó posteriormente, el día 31, el director general para Europa y América del Norte, José Pons, ante el embajador británico, Stephen Wright, a quien, en una reunión en Exteriores, transmitió el malestar español porque se produzcan hechos de ese tipo sin conocimiento de las autoridades de nuestro país. Además, le pidió un compromiso «firme» y si era posible por escrito por parte del Reino Unido de que situaciones similares no se repetirán. La petición le fue reiterada ayer mismo al embajador por el propio Pons, tras ser publicada la información de lo sucedido.

El embajador, según supo ABC, presentó sus excusas a las autoridades españolas, lamentando lo ocurrido que, al parecer, también ha causado malestar en la propia Embajada británica, ya que los militares habrían entrado en España sin ponerlo en conocimiento de la representación diplomática.

Las autoridades españolas se encuentran, en consecuencia, a la espera de que se produzca ese compromiso formal por parte del Reino Unido de que lo ocurrido no volverá a suceder.

Fuentes de la Embajada se limitaron a comentar a ABC que se lamentaba el incidente -que esperaban también que no se repita- y remitieron al Ministerio de Defensa británico.

Disculpas británicas

Una fuente de ese departamento indicó a Efe que los agentes hacían una operación «sin misterio», aunque reconoció que se vulneró un pacto existente con España según el cual el transporte de material militar debe hacerse por vías comerciales y no militares. «Esa vulneración -señaló- se debió a un simple error administrativo, por lo que hemos pedido disculpas a las autoridades españolas».

La misma fuente aseguró que el material que portaban los militares no estaba destinado a ser usado en maniobras con un submarino nuclear. Los agentes llevaban en la furgoneta equipamiento militar, dos potentes fuera-bordas, una lancha zodiac neumática, un sistema elevador para motores y embarcaciones, equipos de buceo y varias cajas cerradas con candados.

Por su parte, la portavoz de la oficina del Ministerio de Defensa en Gibraltar, Katherine Prudhoe, explicó a Europa Press que no se trataba de «una misión secreta» y que los dos marines «transportaban equipos de buceo a Gibraltar» desde el Reino Unido y cruzaron por tierra Francia y España pero, «por error, no informaron a la Embajada británica en España, que es la instancia encargada, a su vez, de informar al Gobierno español».

Garantías de Bono

Desde Santander, el ministro español de Defensa, José Bono, aseguró en rueda de prensa que la presencia en Málaga del comando británico no puso en peligro la seguridad nacional. Bono confirmó que los hechos están siendo investigados por el Centro Nacional de Inteligencia (CNI) y que esa investigación es «secreta y clasificada».

Uno de los objetivos de la investigación es determinar si la presencia de los dos agentes en España guardaba alguna relación con el paso por Gibraltar del «HMS Trenchant», que atracó en el puerto de la colonia el 10 de mayo, pasó varias jornadas allí, salió y regresó el día 24, por lo que el día que los dos militares fueron detenidos el submarino no se encontraba en el Peñón.

Los dos militares fueron detenidos en la madrugada del día 18 cuando viajaban en una furgoneta Volkswagen con matrícula de Gibraltar por una zona de Málaga en la que se suelen realizar desembarcos de droga. La lentitud con que circulaba el vehículo levantó las sospechas de la Policía local que detuvo el vehículo y pidió a sus ocupantes que se identificaran. Así lo hicieron estos, presentando sus documentos de miembros de la Royal Navy -que fueron posteriomente autentificados por el comandante en jefe de la base naval británica en Gibraltar- y asegurando que transportaban material militar desde Inglaterra al Peñón.

No es la primera vez que militares británicos son detectados en territorio español sin que el Gobierno tuviera conocimiento previo de ello. El 17 de febrero de 2002, un comando de treinta marines británicos que hacían ejercicios de incursión en la costa gibraltareña, desembarcó por error en una playa de la Línea de la Concepción.
Edited: Well, this thread ran really long, and I just read all the post and there are quite many things I don´t agree, so since I have many things to answer but I haven´t enough time, tomorrow by the morning I´ll write it.

[martinexsquaddie]

we thought a war to sell opium to china ok two.
So why should the gibs sell drugs to the spainish its not like they don't want them rofl.
face two half drunken squaddies vs the entire spainsh armed forces would hardly be a fair fight :) but if thats all you can muster well I suppouse mocking can go get the beers in :lol:

[front]

Again...and after posting on the 3rd page of this thread... answer this:

"However, the Spanish Ministry of Defense had not authorised this transport."

Really? Is this right?

We have SBS transporting equipment across a sovereign nation without it's permission?

Does the SBS even need the permission of the Spanish Government to operate in Spain?

cheers

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