What Would You Do To Defeat Terrorism?

[Sayeret]

Recently their has been a posting about what you would do if you were a terrorist. My question is what would you do if you were the leader of a country like US, France, Israel , Russia, etc. to defeat terrorism or atleast slow it down.

[EvanL]

The root problems of most terrorism lies in poverty and lack of education.
if these ppl had money and the education when they were younger, they wouldnt have been attracted to the terror activties. the more they have to live for, the less they are willing to give their lives for a stupid cause.

[mack pl]

Recently their has been a posting about what you would do if you were a terrorist. My question is what would you do if you were the leader of a country like US, France, Israel , Russia, etc. to defeat terrorism or atleast slow it down.
Multinational Cooperation is that what we need.Any of this countries byself cannot defeat terrorism.Well,In my opinion we cannot deafeat terrorism at all,coz its very simple tactic for some knid of ppl.If you havent got tanks,APCs,etc., you choose this tactic(terrorism).So,we must only killing terrorists as many we could :|
Ohh,and we must think about reasons, why terrorism is so strong? :|

I have no idea, is that possible to defeat terrorism :(

[Hellfish]

Give people jobs. Jobs lead to money, which leads to property, which leads to pacification. Saudi Arabia has something like a 60% unemployment rate but a very high standard of education (at least among the Arab population). If you were well educated and totally unemployed (unable to provide a dowry or afford a wedding), you'd probably be looking for someone to blame too. Is it any wonder that most of the 9/11 terrorists came from SA?

I'm not saying that we should get rid of jobs in our native lands to foreigners, but I'm suggesting that we help encourage the development of their own industrial base or service industry. Provide small business loans at low interest or encourage de-desertification in favor of agriculture. Is there anything now that we in the developed world do not have enough of? If there is, make it.

[RavenW]

Terrorism is just a tactic. It would be silly to declare war on tactic. It's like declaring war on Blitzkrieg or panzer manuveur. You can't beat it.

War should be fought with those ideologies that use this tactic. Precisely, Islamo-fascism.

The excuse "they do it because they're poor" does NOT work. Two thirds of the world is poor, yet terrorism persists in the places that contaminated by islamo-fascist ideology or left-wing dictatorship.

That's why I suggest two steps.

Declare war on islamo-fascists and unite the forces against it.

That means a UNITEd FRONT against those beasts.

Great Britain, Russia, USA, France, China and Jews must unite once again to defeat the most evil of this world.

It's possible, we did it before, we can do it again.

P.S. After total and unconditional defeat of islamo-fascist, you should start (slowly, but surely) to rebuild the area it occupied.

Then build middle class of the Planet.

The country is safe when it has stable middle class, so does Planet.
When world would have a bit and stable middle class, there would be no revolutions and ideologies that poison masses.

Fight poverty and establish wide support for the United States.
We need to have lots of middle-class countries, not few rich countries and majority poor countries of barefeet.

[mack pl]

Terrorism is just a tactic. It would be silly to declare war on tactic. It's like declaring war on Blitzkrieg or panzer manuveur.

War should be fought with those ideologies that use this tactic. Precisely, Islamo-fascism.

The excuse "they do it because they're poor" does NOT work. Two thirds of the world is poor, yet terrorism persist in the places said contaminated by islamo-fascist ideology or left-wing dictatorship.

Agree, we cannot fight with tactic :|

[Ichhabe]

I would have just watch it from the sideline.

And that is what I intend to do from now. Just sit it out. :D

[ELINT]

The root problems of most terrorism lies in poverty and lack of education.
if these ppl had money and the education when they were younger, they wouldnt have been attracted to the terror activties. the more they have to live for, the less they are willing to give their lives for a stupid cause.

And why doesnt this work, its all seems so simple really. Its just to ask oneself why I havent thought about becoming a terrorist or even a criminal.

Do you all thinks true that we all have to get poorer for them to get richer, and that its just plain old greed that keeps the world in the state its in?

I personally belive that for some people its allready to late, they have becomed so filled up with hate that they have turned into dangerous fanatics.
The problem is that these people are stupid enough that they always make sure to spread their hate to their children. The children carries on the hatred even though the cause in some cases has long been forgotten.
If we kill these childrens parents they will however get a somewhat "legitimit" reason to fight us. Its all a sad circle of violence that it requires a whole lot of willpower from all sides to step out of.

But there is hope. Even the once feared red bear in the east became our friend and ally over just a few years. Almost half a century of hatred became history just like that. Sometimes the world is quite strange.

[RavenW]

Unfortunately, some people don't understand that threat comes not from terrorist acts itself, but from the people and ideologies that carry them out.

I suggest that world's big guys (China, India, Russia, Great Britain, USA and France) meet together and say: "Lets put aside our differences for a minute, we will return to them after this World War. And lets crash the bastards! Lets put an end to the islamo-fascist ideology!"

India, China, Russia, USA, UK and Israel...

believe me we have enough resources, men and arm power to do it.

It only needs THE WILL of the people envolved.

If people of the world would realize that there is a duty that must be carried out, then our planet will become a better place.

And after victory the winners would divide the world into the spheres of interest (Chinese zone, American zone, British zone, French zone, Russian zone, Israeli zone, India's zone etc).

Don't forget to dismantle evil ideology after the victory, too. New schools, new teachers, new textbooks. De-nazification of nations. De-Palestinization of people. And start to build middle-class.

The only problem right now is that the world cannot act because it feels so bad about other side's civilians.
We can crash them like ants, but then we can NOT do it because we are humane civilization.
The world forgets that forces of evil hide behind the civilians on purpose and use them as shields for cover while doing their evil work- terrorism.

So lets bite our lip and move forward. Fight the war and say: "We're sorry about the dead kids, it's just damn sick to see some one innocent suffer, BUT this is war. And the victory will be in our hands! No matter how long those bastards would be hiding in cave-bunkers, we gonna get them sooner or later!"

[Ichhabe]

Sorry Raven W, but your last post is the largest rubble of babble I've ever read before. Israeli zone??? Are you kidding me? rofl
And so it go for those other "zones" aswell. But it was the Israeli "zone" that hit me to the floor.


De-Palestinization of people.

And what the hell is this suppose to mean? Are you on drugs? :bash:

But I guess it is ok to do a little "what if"-thinking. :D

[Kriz]

Defuse the middle east problem, if USA would succeed in solving that problem in a decent way then one of the most prominent reasons for terrorism would be over.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Unfortunately, some people don't understand that threat comes not from terrorist acts itself, but from the people and ideologies that carry them out.

I suggest that world's big guys (China, India, Russia, Great Britain, USA and France) meet together and say: "Lets put aside our differences for a minute, we will return to them after this World War. And lets crash the bastards! Lets put an end to the islamo-fascist ideology!"

India, China, Russia, USA, UK and Israel...

believe me we have enough resources, men and arm power to do it.

It only needs THE WILL of the people envolved.

If people of the world would realize that there is a duty that must be carried out, then our planet will become a better place.

And after victory the winners would divide the world into the spheres of interest (Chinese zone, American zone, British zone, French zone, Russian zone, Israeli zone, India's zone etc).

Don't forget to dismantle evil ideology after the victory, too. New schools, new teachers, new textbooks. De-nazification of nations. De-Palestinization of people. And start to build middle-class.

The only problem right now is that the world cannot act because it feels so bad about other side's civilians.
We can crash them like ants, but then we can NOT do it because we are humane civilization.
The world forgets that forces of evil hide behind the civilians on purpose and use them as shields for cover while doing their evil work- terrorism.

So lets bite our lip and move forward. Fight the war and say: "We're sorry about the dead kids, it's just damn sick to see some one innocent suffer, BUT this is war. And the victory will be in our hands! No matter how long those bastards would be hiding in cave-bunkers, we gonna get them sooner or later!"
Sorry Dr Strangelove your talking pants. It was looking promising up until "Lets put aside our differences for a minute, we will return to them after this World War" then the rest made me laugh. Sorry. :lol:

[RavenW]

Laugh all you want.

We were able to put aside our differences in WWII.

Churchill is a genius because he was able to say "I am ready to make pact with devil against Hitler".

I think that united front by Russians, Americans and Chinese is necessary if those countries want to win against terrorist threat on their power.


.... And believe me when I say that it's possible to find a common ground against one enemy between such countries as Russia, USA, India, Israel, Great Britain.

In fact, India, Israel, Ameria and Russia are already starting to find this ground because they all have Kashmir, Chechnya and Afganistan problem.

You'd be surprise what people can do if they face common threat.

The problem lies with people like you that still do not realize that such COMMON threat exists, that it comes from Islamo-fascist ideology of Middle East and that we need (but don't have) western leadership of World War II in order to win this conflict.

Unfortunately, neither Kerry nor Bush is the answer. The country is drowned in political correctness.

[Sayeret]

RavenW great post! woot

[ELINT]

I think that united front by Russians, Americans and Chinese is necessary if those countries want to win against terrorist threat on their power.

Its then sad to see how much influence political theories about for example Huntingtons "The Clash of Civlizations" have on world leaders, like the more hawkish individuals in the western governments.

The way we see a problem makes the base for the way we will try to solve it. If we feel threatened then we will act as we are thretened, thats how the cold war started. Realisms finest hour, powerpolitcs at its best.

I really hope that west and china wont dive into som downward spiral of missunderstanding.

[RavenW]

What is your problem with the zones of post-world-war control?

We had them in WWII.

Lets give China some space, same goes for India and the rest of the world.
If you want to win, you have to make compromise with devil

And another thought, I am for 21 century imperializm, I agree with Kippling saying "The burden of white man", the only thing he was wrong is that he put emphasize on the word "WHITe", while color has NOTHING to do with it.

The right word should be "civilized".

It's time that civilized world would realize that some people are still cavemen. And highways or leather jackets, cars and computers do not make them civilized either. Because civilization lies in human psychology (e.g. not to urinate in his/her own apratment's elevator).

Until there is no fundamental change or evolution in the minds of people of Middle East and Africa, BLACK CIVILIZED people of America and their white brother in arms must take control and responsibilities of policing them.

Because the alternative... we know what is the alternative... we all seen it for the last 50 years since those savages gained "independence". The alternative is civil wars, genocides, pillaging and rapes of whole villages. Rwanda, Cambodia, Sudan, Algeria, Angola, Zimbabwe, Somalia, Ethiopia you name it...

CIVILIZED world must take responsibility:

1. Stop supplying the weapons to the savage-mentality states of Africa and Middle East.
In other word stop using someone's life tragedy to their own advantage and inrichment.

2. If the world really care about Third World, send their troops and a) disarm them b) police them c) teach them.

3. Disbanded UN (this organization only feedsand provides cover for tyrants). Establish a body of enlightened nations (USA, Europe, Israel, Asian countries like Japan and Taiwan).

4. Encourage eduacation, tolerence, different view and plurality.
e.g. while in western society any person intitled to his/her opinion, you can only imagine what would happen with person of "different" opinion on the street of Gaza or Adis Abeba.

Well... Would this plan work????

NO! Why?

Because honestly to say, the world don't give a damn about those people.

They die by millions, they slaughter each other, and world plays the "game" of serious "concern " and "worry", but in reality only think how to cover its own ass. Not many people in the world really give a damn about what happens in Mosambique right now.

In ONE WEEK alon 600 (!) civilians were burned to death in Kashmir.
Did world react? Nah... it was more concerned by two Palestinian civilians who were hurt by Israeli forces by accident. (When I read about Kashmir massacre on the 3rd page of newspaper, I could not believe... I mean 600 people burned alive in one week, that's like half casualties of Israeli--Palestinian conflict in the last 3 years, and noone gave a damn... 600 people !!! civilians!)

The nations do NOTHING to stop genocides and slave trafficing that happens right now as we speak.
It did NOTHING when Taliban tortured women in Afganistan.


.........
I remeber, I asked my friends why we (Americans) not gonna unite with Russia and china and send international force in Afganistan?
"Who cares? It's G-d forsaken place" was the answer.

Date: March 2001.

only few month later the world send the force of "liberators"... after so many years of doing nothing.

I rest my case.

[Hellfish]

I think Israel is hardly a problem amongst the other problems in the world. I think we're best leaving them to solve their own problem - besides which, I doubt the end of the Palestinian problem will solve any kind of trouble.

And you can't just wipe out Muslims. To suggest that is stupid. Declaring war on "Islamo-facists"? Well ****... I'm sure that'll work. It's only what, a billion muslims in the world? No problem! :roll:

I think the spirit of the original question was how would you REALISTICALLY solve terrorism? And no, you will never be able to wipe it out fully simply because terror, as a political tactic, works. You've got to solve the root causes of the motivation. Wiping out a billion people will wipe out that root cause, but that's hardly possible.

[Secret Squirrel]

Laugh all you want.

We were able to put aside our differences in WWII.



Was it as simple as putting difference aside in WWII or was it a fact of having a common physical threat to borders by other countries? "Conventional wars creates strange bed-fellows".

[Hellfish]

What is your problem with the zones of post-world-war control?

We had them in WWII.

Lets give China some space, same goes for India and the rest of the world.
If you want to win, you have to make compromise with devil

And another thought, I am for 21 century imperializm, I agree with Kippling saying "The burden of white man", the only thing he was wrong is that he put emphasize on the word "WHITe", while color has NOTHING to do with it.

The right word should be "civilized".

It's time that civilized world would realize that some people are still cavemen. And highways or leather jackets, cars and computers do not make them civilized either. Because civilization lies in human psychology (e.g. not to urinate in his/her own apratment's elevator).

Until there is no fundamental change or evolution in the minds of people of Middle East and Africa, BLACK CIVILIZED people of America and their white brother in arms must take control and responsibilities of policing them.

Because the alternative... we know what is the alternative... we all seen it for the last 50 years since those savages gained "independence". The alternative is civil wars, genocides, pillaging and rapes of whole villages. Rwanda, Cambodia, Sudan, Algeria, Angola, Zimbabwe, Somalia, Ethiopia you name it...

CIVILIZED world must take responsibility:

1. Stop supplying the weapons to the savage-mentality states of Africa and Middle East.
In other word stop using someone's life tragedy to their own advantage and inrichment.

2. If the world really care about Third World, send their troops and a) disarm them b) police them c) teach them.

3. Disbanded UN (this organization only feedsand provides cover for tyrants). Establish a body of enlightened nations (USA, Europe, Israel, Asian countries like Japan and Taiwan).

4. Encourage eduacation, tolerence, different view and plurality.
e.g. while in western society any person intitled to his/her opinion, you can only imagine what would happen with person of "different" opinion o the street of Gaza or Adis Abeba.

Well... Would this plan work?>

NO! Why?

Because honestly to say, the world don't give a damn about those people.

They die by millions, they slaughter each other, and world plays the game of serious "concern " and "worry", but in reality only think how to cover its own ass.

The nations do NOTHING to stop genocides and slave trafficing that happens right now as we speak.
It did NOTHING when Taliban tortured women in Afganistan.


.........
I remeber, I asked my friends why we (Americans) not gonna unite with Russia and china and send international force in Afganistan?
"Who cares? It's G-d forsaken place" was the answer.

Date: March 2001.

only few month later the world send the force of "liberators"... after so many years of doing nothing.

I rest my case.

Actually, this post does make some sense.

[Secret Squirrel]

I think Israel is hardly a problem amongst the other problems in the world. I think we're best leaving them to solve their own problem - besides which, I doubt the end of the Palestinian problem will solve any kind of trouble.

And you can't just wipe out Muslims. To suggest that is stupid. Declaring war on "Islamo-facists"? Well ****... I'm sure that'll work. It's only what, a billion muslims in the world? No problem! :roll:

I think the spirit of the original question was how would you REALISTICALLY solve terrorism? And no, you will never be able to wipe it out fully simply because terror, as a political tactic, works. You've got to solve the root causes of the motivation. Wiping out a billion people will wipe out that root cause, but that's hardly possible.

Well said. The only thing you can do to terrorists is make it as hard as possible for them to operate (ie. removing the Talliban(sp?)). The war on terror is just like the war on drugs; neither will ever end, you fight to keep both down to "reasonable" levels.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Unfortunately, some people don't understand that threat comes not from terrorist acts itself, but from the people and ideologies that carry them out.
I live in the UK I know plenty about acts of terror.



India, China, Russia, USA, UK and Israel...
You missed out Germany and a few other fairly important countries, got a little problem with the Germans have we?



De-nazification of nations. De-Palestinization of people.
Are there nations following the Nazi creed, pray tell me oh wise one which ones. De-Palestinization what do you want to do with them?


So lets bite our lip and move forward. Fight the war and say: "We're sorry about the dead kids, it's just damn sick to see some one innocent suffer, BUT this is war. And the victory will be in our hands! No matter how long those bastards would be hiding in cave-bunkers, we gonna get them sooner or later!"
Oh f*ck you must be a worry to your parents.


Laugh all you want.
I will because if the lunacy you advocate ever comes to pass I might not be able to laugh again.


Islamo-fascist ideology of Middle East
This is a new one on me it sounds almost as obtuse as Zionazi


The country is drowned in political correctness.
No my friend they call that morality.

You describe an almost Hieronymus Bosch like vision of the future sort of like the Hell part of Paradise And Hell.

[RavenW]

And you can't just wipe out Muslims. To suggest that is stupid. Declaring war on "Islamo-facists"? Well ****... I'm sure that'll work. It's only what, a billion muslims in the world? No problem!


and who is suggesting to wipe out billion of musilims?

I mean serious... it's so often happens that people twist the words.

The war against Islamo-fascism is like war against Nazism.
Both wars required personal sacrifice and some civilian casualties (as collateral damage0 because in both wars tyrants and cowards send 13 year old boys to die for them. (Hitler,Arafat)

Now, if in the process the free world will find out that the other side is so fanaticaly believe in the destruction of "non-believers".
Then there is always a shock therapy available to get them to their sense.

Hey, my American friends! do you remember what kind of shock therapy America used on Japanese fanatics and kamikadze at the end of war?
Well it might happen then it would be necessary again.

It is possible? Perhaps.
Would it happen? Not until world covers with a fig leaf of "political correctness".

Now about Islamo-fascism.
It is the same evil as before. It just tranformed/evovled into different form.

In old time, evil out the stake on national/ethnic intolerence.
Some races were SUPERIOR to others.

We fought this evil and we won.

Evil was defeated only for a while.

So it changed its nature a bit in order to adapt. Realizing that it would be impossible to survive for evil in this new world order, it mimicry into the intolerence based on religion.

from "White race superior to black and Jew" -> to -> "Musloim religion is the only true religion and the world should be one big Islamic halifat, with Jews and Christian wearing yeallow ribbons and pay "special" taxes"...

by the way, Taliban forced Hindu to wear Yeallow ribbons for their identification.
makes you think how much we changed since WWII...



In order to identify evil, look for its goals. Look for the goals of islamo-fascists. Terror is only tactics, the enemy is islamo-fascists ideology.

So noone calls for the destruction of Muslim religion (which is by the way nice religion - I got whole bunch of friend who are Muslims from Iran and Kazaghstan).

Islam is all right... as german national were and are all right today...

it's when they turn "aryan" or "true believer/wahabits" then it becomes scary.

The problem not with Islam, but with Islamo-fascist ideolofy.

[RavenW]

Are there nations following the Nazi creed, pray tell me oh wise one which ones. De-Palestinization what do you want to do with them?

Yes, there are nations in the world that follow Nazi creed.
And I have facts to prove it.

While World War II swept through Europe and Europeans themselves (on their own back) felt the weight of Hitler's tyranny, Middle East stayed practically untouched.

First...

Who was the main ally of Nazi in Middle East? Jews? Christian minorities?

It was Muslim Arabs, who found Nazism very appealing.

in fact so appealing that some of them were tried in Nurberg trials.

They were fully cooperating with Nazis, they received money from them, Nazi scientist (not German scientists) heleped them with weapons.

In 1950s, in some parts of Iran people still wear Nazi swastikas and called themselves true "Aryan" nation ("after all we are superior to Arabs and Armenians" they said.)

Second...

Have you ever seen a rally of Hezbollah?
My friend from Lebanon spend some time in Hezbollah barracks in south Lebanon (wanted to know them).

They use Hitler's style of pledge, to kill Jews whenever its possible, they dress in all black, some of them wear swastikas, they salute to their "supreme leader" as Nazis saluted to Furer.

Third...

have you ever looked at the charter of such terrorist organizations as HAMAS and ISlamic Jihad?

Those "political" parties made it very clear that the only way to move forward in Middle East is the genocide of Jews.


De-Palestinization of Arabs

To your knowledge, only 70 years ago, when people said "Palestinians" in the world they ment Jews.

Arabs were Arabs, and they were proud to be Arabs.

Arabs of Palestine region were no similar or different from Arabs of Syrian region or Lebanese region of Ottoman Empire.
In the fact, that they are all very divided in clans and tribes, they all trace common Arab nationality, language and culture.
in fact so the same, that some Arab leaders dream of unification of Arabs...

have you heard of pan-arabism?

Second, Palestinianization is very artificial development.
In a way it is a xenophobic respince to the creqation of Israel, that was fed and develop by PLO gang and supported and encouraged by Soviet totalitarian system.

It was Soviet Union that helped his "Arab brothers" to develop the whole idea of Palestinian nationalism and "Palestinian" national struggle.

So after World War III, if we would really want to return to our roots, and normal society, we must take away this "Nazification" of Arabs as well as it's "Palestinization" (made by USSR and PLO in 60s) of Arabs.

Arabs should return to their own national roots as people that came and settled in many regions of the world from Arab peninsula.

The whole division of Middle East was very artificial and all those borders were forced upon Arab population of Middle East by British and French imperialists who did not give a damn about Arabs in the first place.

Third, I think that imperialists must return to the region and make up the mistakes of their grandparents.

[RavenW]

RavenW wrote:

India, China, Russia, USA, UK and Israel...

You missed out Germany and a few other fairly important countries, got a little problem with the Germans have we?


Yes I do. With GERMANY (country), not Germans or people of German descent. And let me explain why.

1. Germany is still underpower in terms of military might comparing to USA, Russia, France, UK.

2. Even if it was as much military capable as US and UK, it's not on the list of my allies.

Reasons:
1. Through out history, Germany supported the "other" or the axis side... in other words Germany always was axis power... supported Nazis, supported Iran and Arabs...
2. Nothing is changed by magic.
I don't believe in miracles, and I don't believe that nation that murdered millions of civilians in intentional and systematic genocide can change in a matter of few years.
Especially, while many German criminals were not punished after the war, like that lady that tortured Jewish children and performed experiments on them, still had medical practise after the war!!!

A nation that wore boots from human skin 50 years ago, could not be added to the list of civilized nations, when its scientists actively help Egyptians to develop weapons against Jews, and did it outmost to oppose America's war with Saddam.

To put it pure and simple, Germany and France are simply not our Allies.

I think France is occupied by Islamo-fascists already... at least in its mentality. so is Belgium and Western Europe, but there is difference between being "occupied" and actually "truely" represent the evil itself.

I think Germany does this even today.

With all the anti-Semitism that exists in France, do you know the country with the most number of attacks against Jews and other minorities? Germany!

Same old Germany, where neo-nazism spreads and takes new forms.

My uncle was born in Berlin and I got some friends who lived in Germany all their life.

e.g. my conversation with Vietmamese friend from Berlin:
"so how's Germany today?"
"very full of hatred! that's why my family was forced to immigrate in the States"
"Why?"
"see, young people they are skinheads, but old people, they walk by when someone attacks you, and instead of stoping the attackers, they encourage them... I mean old grandmas gonna walk and say things like 'Yeah! beat this Asian ****! it's time to clean Germany from it'."

The guy is one of the best jazz players I ever knew...
and I play myself Jazz for 15 years.

another example...

University, everyone is very "tolerent":

a German friends come up to me (I am not Israeli at all):
"So I heard, you, Israelis torture poor innocent Palestinians over there!"
my response (I honestly did not expect it, I mean I am not from Israel, what I have to do with it): "I don't know about Israelis, I wasn't there, but I know lots of old people from Russia who live in Israel and still remember gestapo tortures".

He shot up.

another example (at home):
we play game of MIND... you say word, other player must say the first thing that comes to their mind...

I say: "jew"
German friend answers: "weird"..

weird? honestly from all the words I was expecting to hear, that was the one I did not expect to hear.

My first word would be "talent"... yeah... I think "talent" w0uld be my first thought, since through my life I met quiet a lot of talented people who happen to be Jews.

my first word that comes to mind for "American" - "honest hard working".

my first word for "Palestinian" - "dogma" since their society is driven by hatred alone, and some brainwashing and indocrination in the mind of youth.


So, do I have some personal beef with Germans?

You bet! My great-grandfather (Vasilyi Zaitsev) from Ural died in WWII because of Germans, my grandma is disabled because of German aggression.

I lost some relatives in Holocaust (something I will never forget or forgive) and my own heart-city where I was born still have marks of German "visit" in crippled oak trees and walls with bullets and shrapnell marks...

Do I have something against Germans? you bet.
They support my enemy - Palestinian terrorists and Arab islamo-fascists.



and I will never buy a German car.


Still I have personal beef with GERMANY, but not with people of German nationality. People are just people. It's their character what makes them great.
I actually have some German friend, believe it or not.

The drum player in our band is from Germany by the way. Nice guy! :)

[SeanAshi]

First throw that due process bull**** out the window...

[Beowulf]

First throw that due process bull**** out the window...

WTF?

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_duep.html


Generally, due process guarantees the following (this list is not exhaustive):

Right to a fair and public trial conducted in a competent manner
Right to be present at the trial
Right to an impartial jury
Right to be heard in one's own defense
Laws must be written so that a reasonable person can understand what is criminal behavior
Taxes may only be taken for public purposes
Property may be taken by the government only for public purposes
Owners of taken property must be fairly compensated

[RavenW]

I feel I need to emphasize that I have absolutely NO problem with Germans or people of German descent.

Nationality is not important, it's people character that is important.]

That's why have 2 German friends, but might say I have beef with Germany.
Ihope you understand the difference.
If Germany will start to act differently to my country and show that it is behind US and Israel 100 %, I might change my opinion about it.

but before it happens, I reserve a right to pass a judgment on the counrry that made a lot of personal evil to my family, my people, my country.

nationality isn't important (German, French, Russian, Romanian)...
GERMANY and FRANCE SUCKS.


P.s. Please don't be offended, the same you can say about Israel or USA.

[SeanAshi]

Jose Padilla + terrorist + guilty = capital puishment.

[StealthMode]

You stop giving them the media, THAT is the power they have. If the damn media would stop taking, "statements" which legitimize the organization, and stop showing there bombings and messages.... THEN youve taken the power of terrorism away.

You just have to figure out how to do that without incringing on Freedom of speech, and Freedom of the press. If I were the US, or Russia, or a large country.. I would ban reporting terrorist events unless it can help with the safety of others.

Stop allowing terrorist organizations to have spokesman and even names. If someone associated with an organization goes in public, they should be immidieatly arressted, or if armed, shot and killed.

[RavenW]

RavenW wrote:
So lets bite our lip and move forward. Fight the war and say: "We're sorry about the dead kids, it's just damn sick to see some one innocent suffer, BUT this is war. And the victory will be in our hands! No matter how long those bastards would be hiding in cave-bunkers, we gonna get them sooner or later!"


Oh f*ck you must be a worry to your parents.


Well, this is very mature of you, to move from genuine dialoge or argument to simple name calling and insults.
Do you really consider the response with an insult a good argument in discussion?
This only shows your own level of maturity... :roll: :)





RavenW wrote:
Laugh all you want.


I will because if the lunacy you advocate ever comes to pass I might not be able to laugh again.


Again, instead of arguing point-by-point, you chose paths of unargumentive insults. What is so unimaginable in declaring war against Islamo-fascism? It does exist in Middle East. And free world have a choice to declare the war against such ideology.

Of course, it doesn't worry you, since you live far far from its reach... so far...





RavenW wrote:
Islamo-fascist ideology of Middle East


This is a new one on me it sounds almost as obtuse as Zionazi


Again, plaease argument your point.

And why you find any similarity?

Zionism [definition] - a desire of Jews to have the state of their own.

Islamo-fascism [definition] - a political ideology based on the supremacy of one religion over the others, and the establishing of the world dictatorship of this particular religion.

As we see, those terms are completely different. And it shows only your williingness to put Jewish national aspiration in the same category with Nazism, Islamo-fascism and other extremists movements of world rule.





RavenW wrote:
The country is drowned in political correctness.


No my friend they call that morality.

Well, we obviously think differently. If I would use your style, I would call you a very naive child, whose parents must have problems a lot. But I won't.

I just say that I stronly disagree with you on this point. I'm suprised by your honest believe in "morality" of renaming town called "Fishkill" because its name encourages the violence against animals (example, of modern political correctness - real story).

Then again why this "morality" (as you say, and I would call it "political correctness') did not do anything between 1991-2003 with Saddam Hussein. In the given period I did NOT see a single world rally on the streets of Europe against Saddam's murderers... about 8 million civilians died from Sddam's hand and what did the world do? And then again if only 8 civilian supporters of PLO would die, then it would be a big scale demonstration. morality? :roll:

Now, as Americans and British troops descovered more than 22 mass graves, the numbers are ranging between 100 000 and 600 000 people killed a year.
That means that Saddam's butchers murdered lots of civilians (like women and infants) and dumped their bodies in mass graves, while Europe did not carry out a single demonstration of protest against this evil.

And this is a morality? For me, it's just political correctness. When its in the interest of Europe, it cries about humanity, when it is not in its interest it leads anti-war demonstrations.



And last, since you insist on calling me "your friend", then please respect me as your fellow forum participant and refer from direct insults.

Thank you. :)

[AROUETLJ]

If I were George Bush, I wouldn't try to destroy the European Union, seeing as we're on the same side after all. Who's closer to the Middle East and North Africa? Europe or America? So Europe is the first line of defence.

[Kilgor]

You stop giving them the media, THAT is the power they have. If the damn media would stop taking, "statements" which legitimize the organization, and stop showing there bombings and messages.... THEN youve taken the power of terrorism away.



Agreed.

And kick all the media out of iraq so the job can be done properly.
In the west and europe people have forgotten what war is about and especially in relation to the prision abuse issue.

There would be thousands of prisioners treated as bad each day, in thousands of prisions around the world, yet it fails to make any mention.

[KML]

Three words would solve the problem...TACTICAL NUCLEAR WEAPONS
p-)

[Sayeret]

StealthMode wrote:


You stop giving them the media, THAT is the power they have. If the damn media would stop taking, "statements" which legitimize the organization, and stop showing there bombings and messages.... THEN youve taken the power of terrorism away.

You just have to figure out how to do that without incringing on Freedom of speech, and Freedom of the press. If I were the US, or Russia, or a large country.. I would ban reporting terrorist events unless it can help with the safety of others.

Stop allowing terrorist organizations to have spokesman and even names. If someone associated with an organization goes in public, they should be immidieatly arressted, or if armed, shot and killed.

That probably is one of the biggest if not the very biggest reason why terrorists can exist like they do. Before the media terrorists rarely existed since word would not get around that they carried out a bombing or a shooting but now we hear about everything that happens and it is easier for them to recruit more people to join them.

Also before the media most countries were able to do almost whatever they wanted to their people. If they thought five people in a village were revolutionaries they could raze the whole village and most likely no one outside the country would ever hear about it. That is probably one of the reasons why news reporters aern't allowed in Sri Lanka is because the government is worried about them limiting their power.

[born_to_love]

The root problems of most terrorism lies in poverty and lack of education.
if these ppl had money and the education when they were younger, they wouldnt have been attracted to the terror activties. the more they have to live for, the less they are willing to give their lives for a stupid cause.

Yeah, if only more leaders would think like that.. I think it was BB Netenyahu who said " You cant hate your neighbors with a full stomach" or something like that.

[SeanAshi]

Right to a fair and public trial conducted in a competent manner
Right to be present at the trial
Right to an impartial jury
Right to be heard in one's own defense

Well its unfortunate we can't exclude terrorist from due process. :(

[Kilgor]

As it keeps being said, there is proverty in many places in the world especially in south america but they dont go blowing themselves up in the name of god and 72 black eyed virgins

[talib_killa34]

I don't think there is an easy solution other than invading multiple "hostile" countries (i.e Iran. Syria, North Korea, Cuba. Pakistan) or Psuedo-hostiles (FRANCE, RUSSIA!???) but then that tends to start looking like "WWV" there and we would become Nazi Germany-like.

See what irks the host countries that sponsor and harbor terrorists? I don't know.

"Hey Iran, can we just get along?"

Pakistan is just ripe too, something smelly is going on there.

I once heard the term "smart policing" and I think that just has to be the way other than all out wars.

[Jehuty]

I don't think there is an easy solution other than invading multiple "hostile" countries (i.e Iran. Syria, North Korea, Cuba. Pakistan) or Psuedo-hostiles (FRANCE, RUSSIA!???)

That's right USA invading a democracy would be a perfect way to fight terrorism. :roll:

[scattergun]

I'm all for killing every single one of the bastards.

[OB Kenobi]

So,we must only killing terrorists as many we could :|
Ohh,and we must think about reasons, why terrorism is so strong? :|
I have no idea, is that possible to defeat terrorism :(

Terrorism is strong because of:

1. Israel-Palestine, bigotry by western powers against Arabs.
2. Oil
3. American, Russian and European politicians and businessmen who take advantage of terrorism when it suits their selfish purposes.
4. Ignorance, lack of education
5. Lack of employment

No terrorism would exist without covert state support. None of these groups are without state support, including Al Qaeda. Don't fool yourself into thinking Bin Laden is Dr. Evil, Bin Laden is an operative for Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, and once even a CIA operative.

Speaking of Bin Laden, that's another thing. Forget Bin Laden, he is not what is behind all the terror. Terrorism exists through terror networks, their finances are the key, not their public faces. Churches, charities, businesses, drug-smuggling, prostitution-slave trading, that's where all their $$$ is coming from.

[Kilgor]

How would you explain Islamic terrorism is asia where this no oil or arabs ?

Bite the bullet and accept the common trait here is Islam.

[/quote]

[RavenW]

OB Kenobi I agree with you on most you've said.

#5 sounds kinda weak. I mean "lack of employment?"
... maybe with certain brainwashing, scape goating and hate-incitement - yes...

Kilgor, I think the problem not in Islam, but in Islamo-fascism.

Their ideology is evil, not the religion itself. It's the approach to religion - "my religion is the only true religion and I'll force you into it whether you like it or not"... this aproach fuels on intolerance and lack of education.

[Jehuty]

Dude stop with your islamo-fascism, it makes no sense.
Fascism is a political doctrine where you have a dictator with no restrictions of power, one political party which control every aspects of individuals' life through totalitarism and a complete destruction of every others institutions between the people and the power (associations, political parties, etc...)

Islam to power would be a theocracy, not a fascism.

[RavenW]

What do they have in Iran? A supreme leader, a furer.

So please, don't tell me that Saui Arabia, Syria and Iran are democracies.

They are totalitarian fascist like states, ruled by either individual or dictate of one party.

Party of Allah always right? give me a break...

comrade Napoleon is.

Islamo-fascists take oath to the Supreme Leader (Furer) of Iran.
http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/564_1086225141_recrutsforhezballah.jpg

[RavenW]

Man, man man man (man I really like you, don't get me wrong, friend)



Islam to power would be a theocracy, not a fascism.


Man! The whole point is that it is NOT about Islam or rule of religious authority (like in Vatican).

Islamo-fascism is a political ideology driven by idea that one religion is supeior to others and thefore should be indocrinated in the world and establish the DICTATORSHIP in the name of one religion.

In other words, in Theocracy all power belongs to religious leaders.

Under Islamo-fascism all power would belong to political leader, "who would establish Islamic haliphate for the happiness of mankind".

Do you want this to happen? :) Then open your eyes. ;)

Dude. woot :D

[Kilgor]

What do they have in Iran? A supreme leader, a furer.

So please, don't tell me that Saui Arabia, Syria and Iran are democracies.

They are totalitarian fascist like states, ruled by either individual or dictate of one party.

Party of Allah always right? give me a break...

comrade Napaleon is.

exactly

[Jehuty]

What do they have in Iran? A supreme leader, a furer.

And Iran is a classic dictatorship who can be considered as a theocracy even if it don't really fit the definition. It's in no way a fascism, simply because there is the notion of God associate with power.
Therefore Islamic theocracy can't be a fascism, but it can be a horrible dictatorship of course.


So please, don't tell me that Saui Arabia, Syria and Iran are democracies.

And why i would say that?


They are totalitarian fascist like states, ruled by either individual or dictate of one party.

You need to check your definition of totalitarism.
A totalitarian state wants to integrate people in a global ideology trough domination of every aspects of human life in order to make a new man.
A classic dictatorship just react and force his power on everyone with repression.


comrade Napaleon is.

?

[talib_killa34]

I don't think there is an easy solution other than invading multiple "hostile" countries (i.e Iran. Syria, North Korea, Cuba. Pakistan) or Psuedo-hostiles (FRANCE, RUSSIA!???)

That's right USA invading a democracy would be a perfect way to fight terrorism. :roll:

I was actually messing around. Yeah, France and Russia are REALLY on the hit list. C'mon! :cantbeli:

I think the toppling of Hussein in Iraq had to happen. Whether it is a "victory" in the war on terror is beyond me. SH had to go, so he's gone. Same with his sons. Get over it.

[Jehuty]

Under Islamo-fascism all power would belong to political leader, "who would establish Islamic haliphate for the happiness of mankind".

You clearly don't get it.
If all the power belong to one man BUT if there is religion (therefore an institution) to power it can be a fascism.
If the religion happens to have no power at all and IF the dictator use totalitarian ways, then it would be called a fascism.
Islamo-fascism is a non-sense, religious institution can't have a place in fascism.



Do you want this to happen? :) Then open your eyes. ;)


Explain.

[RavenW]

You need to check your definition of totalitarism.
A totalitarian state wants to integrate people in a global ideology trough domination of every aspects of human life in order to make a new man.


Exactly. And that is what Syria and Iran are trying to do.

That's what USSR tried to do.





comrade Napaleon always right


?


Dude, that's from the book of Orwell "Animal Farm".



-------------------------------------------------
Islamo-fascists take oath to the Supreme Leader (Furer) of Iran.
http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/564_1086225141_recrutsforhezballah.jpg

[Jehuty]

SH had to go, so he's gone. Same with his sons. Get over it.

Excuse me but...WTF???
Do you really think i cry because a dictator and his sons died?

[Jehuty]

Exactly. And that is what Syria and Iran are trying to do.

That's what USSR tried to do.

Well, then they try but they are not ;)
And URSS didn't try, they did, it was a totalitarian regim.And a horrible one.



Dude, that's from the book of Orwell "Animal Farm".

I already heard of it but i didn't read it.

[talib_killa34]

SH had to go, so he's gone. Same with his sons. Get over it.

Excuse me but...WTF???
Do you really think i cry because a dictator and his sons died?


Both?

I don't know, did you cry?

[RavenW]

religious institution can't have a place in fascism.


you really think so? :roll:

well, don't be offended, man, please don't... but dudes, that's what the problem with France as I see it.

There is just something wrong with France and their view on religion.




Religion can be spirituality. Religion can also be a tool of government or dictator under any regime.
It can have the same party apparatus as the ruling party and be "in check" with Supreme Leader.

[Jehuty]

SH had to go, so he's gone. Same with his sons. Get over it.

Excuse me but...WTF???
Do you really think i cry because a dictator and his sons died?


Both?

I don't know, did you cry?

Not yet but i doubt he will survive to his trial, especially if he is judge by Iraquis.
And no i hardly cried :roll: I was born and raised in a democracy, therefore i have some values hardly compatible with dictatorships.


you really think so?

If priests have powers, if religious institution has power along with the dictator, then it's not a fascism.
It was my only point.


well, don't be offended, man, please don't... but dudes, that's what the problem with France as I see it.

There is just something wrong with France and their view on religion.

Really?
I think i'd be really amused if you could explain me what France's view on religion, considering there are still 88% of romans catholic and only 4% of atheists.


Religion can be spirituality. Religion can also be a tool of government or dictator under any regime.


Excuse me but where the hell did i say otherwise?
The question was wether islamo-fascism is a valid expression or not?
It's not, end of the story.

[RavenW]

Ohhhh man... I think we need to open a new topic.. cause this is definetly not about terrorism already...

ok I will start new topic "Islamo-fascism and its relationship to the free world'.

[talib_killa34]

Nah. Feel free to fire away.

Just kidding...

I have nothing against FRANCE!!!!! There I said it.

:P

[Sayeret]

OB Kenobi don't lie and say that I said things that I never said. I never said that.

Sayeret wrote:

So,we must only killing terrorists as many we could :|
Ohh,and we must think about reasons, why terrorism is so strong? :|
I have no idea, is that possible to defeat terrorism :(

Why did you make that load of crap up, I never said that.

[RavenW]

I opened new topic, specifically for Islamo-fascism, because I think the main theme of this topic should be restored.

Islamo-fascism
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16415

As for this topic (How to defeat terrorism?):

As I said before, I think terrorism is merely a tactic of some particular ideologies and therefore undefeatable. Noone can declare war on tactic or methods. The war should be fought between ideologies: democracy and islamo-fascism.

[talib_killa34]

I opened new topic, specifically for Islamo-fascism, because I think the main theme of this topic should be restored.

Islamo-fascism
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16415

As for this topic (How to defeat terrorism?):

As I said before, I think terrorism is merely a tactic of some particular ideologies and therefore undefeatable. Noone can declare war on tactic or methods. The war should be fought between ideologies: democracy and islamo-fascism.

You go Raven! woot

[anonymous individual]

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/564_1086225141_recrutsforhezballah.jpg

Just wrong. :petting:

[RavenW]

Today's news.



Bush Likens War Against Terrorism to WWII

By DEB RIECHMANN, Associated Press Writer

AIR FORCE ACADEMY, Colo. - Likening the terrorism fight to the World War II struggle against tyranny, President Bush urged support Wednesday for his efforts to spread freedom and democracy in the Middle East despite the angry distrust of many Arabs.

"This is the great challenge of our time, the storm in which we fly," Bush told 981 Air Force Academy cadets graduating in a stadium at the foot of the Rockies.

Just as events in Europe determined the outcome of the Cold War, events in the Middle East will determine the fate of the terrorism fight, Bush said in a 45-minute foreign policy speech. He said that beyond jailing terrorists, free nations must nurture openness in oppressed societies to head off the resentment and anger that breeds violence.

He said such a transformation would take generations and was essential to America's security.

"If that region is abandoned to dictators and terrorists, it will be a constant source of violence and alarm, exporting killers of increasing destructive power to attack America and other free nations," Bush said. "If that region grows in democracy and prosperity and hope, the terrorist movement will lose its sponsors, lose its recruits and lose the festering grievances that keep terrorists in business."

.....



http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040603/ap_on_el_pr/bush&cid=694&ncid=716

[OB Kenobi]

OB Kenobi I agree with you on most you've said.

#5 sounds kinda weak. I mean "lack of employment?"
... maybe with certain brainwashing, scape goating and hate-incitement - yes...

Ok, maybe lack of good employment compared to the standard of living. People not happy working like slaves, not happy seeing rich bosses, foreigners living like kings, plundering their land and giving nothing back.

The thing with Muslims especially is that some of them honestly believe that wealth and "decadence" is evil. America slams it into their faces every day, and it tells them that they're wrong for refusing to engage in such a lifestyle. They look at themselves trying to lead a pious lifestyle while this is going on and they see it as injustice.

An unscrupulous individual can easily take those deep-rooted feelings and turn such a person towards terrorism.

Had these people been living a stable lifestyle, rather than living in poverty, they wouldn't be nearly as easy to manipulate. They basically have nothing to lose.

[mocking_loudly_died]

I ignore terrorism thus it doesn't exist in my sphere of perpetual enlightenment, I am one with winnie the pooh and his honey pot in the sky.

Sorry, this topic is full of nonsense - so I joined in.

[RavenW]

Ok, maybe lack of good employment compared to the standard of living. People not happy working like slaves, not happy seeing rich bosses, foreigners living like kings, plundering their land and giving nothing back.

By this you mean of course oil rich Arabs and all Arab traders who came out from Arab peninsula, settled in Jewish land and began to persecute its native inhabitants - Jews?

and of course you probably talk about when Palestinian Arabs used Jewish labor as a mule while inriching their own community through Jewish money and effort in Palestine region of Ottoman empire?

And of course noone likes foreigner entering your land, building their own religious temples over the most sacred site in your religion, expell and pogrom your people from your own cities (like from Hebron in 1929 and whole bunch of Jewish villages across West and East Bank of Jorddan river) and then declare themselves rightful "owners" of your land...

I agree. :roll: If only some people learned history carefuly.

P.s. In case, you did not notice a note of sarcasm, I give it to you...
oh when and when you blue helmets be impartial in your judgement?!

for once in your life stand for little guy!... Israel!

But no, it's always comes to point of "pretending" that Arabs, who happen to be major force in Middle East abuses, are actually "innocent innocent poor people" and "victims"...



............

I tell you one thing, OB Kenobi the fan of UN.
I personally work right now with some kids that were victims of abuse and who come from the most "child-safety risk" areas in the world (Even according to UN)...

NONE and I repeat NONE of them terrorists or try to justify the violence against civilians by their own misery...
and believe me when I say to you, that I work with such cases of boys and girs who lived in the most miserable locations on this planet.. and who witnessed such amount of disperation and neglect that Palestinians would never imagine it in their lives.

that's all what I want to say to you.

Good day.

[Ichhabe]

Raven W said:


my first word that comes to mind for "American" - "honest hard working".

First of all that is not one word. It is three. rofl

Second; What is it with "Americans" not originally borned in the USA but have migrated over there. You all sound like born again just super salvated christians. Sweet Lord, relax your paranoia a little bit.

I've read all these 5 pages, and all the **** you are able to stir up actually scare me more than the terror acts itself.

And relax on the Israeli-fixation of yours. As for know, Israel are not able to control any "zones" or whatever you call it. Unfortunatly, Israel have little street cred due to how they "fix" their inner zone.

Keep up the mind working, you have some good ideas among all those "weird" ones of yours.

[dacanadianbomb]

One of the first posters was right, education, food, prosperity and future that is worth livnig in.
The ones that step outta line, show them that there is a decisive, offensive strategy to deal with them. Like body bags.

[droopy]

Erase the past ... brainwash 6 billion people.
THE ONLY SOLUTION

[Trident-za]

Why is everyone assuming that this war againtst "Islamo-fascism" will take place outside the USA? Are there not any "Islamo-fascists" within the borders of USA? And, if they are identified, how many "collateral damage" casaulties is the USA prepared to accept as acceptable to wipe out these bad guys?

For example, intelligence finds a group of 25 bad guys... in New York. In an attempt to remove this threat, we use helicopter gunships and smart bombs. Unfortunately, while killing these 25 bad guys, we also kill 40 young children who just happened to be in a bus going to school. Of course, according to some "...there is a duty that must be carried out, then our planet will become a better place". So, are innocent civlian casualties acceptable if the end-result is dead terrorists? Does it depend on whether those civilian casaulties are American? Is it more acceptable if the collateral damage is happening in another continent, say Africa?

I personally think this idea sucks. But, out of curiosity, how many innocent US casaulties are acceptable for every "islamo-fascist" killed? How many innocent New Yorkers are acceptable if the end result is the death of Osama?

[RavenW]

RavenW wrote:
my first word that comes to mind for "American" - "honest hard working".


First of all that is not one word. It is three.


Because it's not in the language of my thought.

you want original word?

Трудяга - honest hard working [guy]

other words that come to mind for "American" - "Пашущий", "Вкалывающий"...

[RavenW]

I just looked in the dictionary... "SLOGGER" that's the word that comes to mind

[Sir Zach of R.]

Recently their has been a posting about what you would do if you were a terrorist. My question is what would you do if you were the leader of a country like US, France, Israel , Russia, etc. to defeat terrorism or atleast slow it down.

If I were a military commander, I would have my men round up 50 captured terrorists. First I would cover them in pigs' blood, guts, flesh, and whatever else comes from a pig. Then I would shoot 49 of them, letting the last one go.

[EvanL]

Recently their has been a posting about what you would do if you were a terrorist. My question is what would you do if you were the leader of a country like US, France, Israel , Russia, etc. to defeat terrorism or atleast slow it down.

If I were a military commander, I would have my men round up 50 captured terrorists. First I would cover them in pigs' blood, guts, flesh, and whatever else comes from a pig. Then I would shoot 49 of them, letting the last one go.And that would just enrage more of the muslims on the sidelines, and cause them to join up to fight the "Infidels"
an attitude like that is whats gonna **** you over. Grow up

[SeanAshi]

If I were a military commander, I would have my men round up 50 captured terrorists. First I would cover them in pigs' blood, guts, flesh, and whatever else comes from a pig. Then I would shoot 49 of them, letting the last one go.
And that would just enrage more of the muslims on the sidelines, and cause them to join up to fight the "Infidels"
an attitude like that is whats gonna f*** you over. Grow upOn the internet we can say dumb things and not worry about it rofl Just dip them in tar then cover them with feathers, take lots and lots of photos and video, then force them to convert to Buddism.

[Sir Zach of R.]

I'm still looking at a few websources, but if what I'm reading is correct, in the early 1900s, a US military detachment in the Phillipines was being harassed and attacked by muslim extermists. The commander of the detachment, Maj. "Blackjack" Pershing, captured about 50 of the extremists. He had his soldiers soak their bullets in pigs' blood, and then killed all but one of the extremists. He then buried the extremists in a pit filled with pigs' blood. He let the last one go. There was not a single terrorist attack (by muslims) for the next 40 or so years.

[EvanL]

I'm still looking at a few websources, but if what I'm reading is correct, in the early 1900s, a US military detachment in the Phillipines was being harassed and attacked by muslim extermists. The commander of the detachment, Maj. "Blackjack" Pershing, captured about 50 of the extremists. He had his soldiers soak their bullets in pigs' blood, and then killed all but one of the extremists. He then buried the extremists in a pit filled with pigs' blood. He let the last one go. There was not a single terrorist attack (by muslims) for the next 40 or so years.
You still dont get it. This isnt the early 1900's. there is mass media. and it would cause an outrage worse than the Abu Ghraibe prison one.
Once again. Grow the F up :bash:

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

I'm still looking at a few websources, but if what I'm reading is correct, in the early 1900s, a US military detachment in the Phillipines was being harassed and attacked by muslim extermists. The commander of the detachment, Maj. "Blackjack" Pershing, captured about 50 of the extremists. He had his soldiers soak their bullets in pigs' blood, and then killed all but one of the extremists. He then buried the extremists in a pit filled with pigs' blood. He let the last one go. There was not a single terrorist attack (by muslims) for the next 40 or so years.
I think Al-Q are a different kettle of fish from the Moro warriors, Al-Q people when on the job and trying to blend in will screw infidel chicks, eat pork and watch ****. A few web sources would have put you right on this one. :)

[The Walrus]

I'm still looking at a few websources, but if what I'm reading is correct, in the early 1900s, a US military detachment in the Phillipines was being harassed and attacked by muslim extermists. The commander of the detachment, Maj. "Blackjack" Pershing, captured about 50 of the extremists. He had his soldiers soak their bullets in pigs' blood, and then killed all but one of the extremists. He then buried the extremists in a pit filled with pigs' blood. He let the last one go. There was not a single terrorist attack (by muslims) for the next 40 or so years.

Ummmmm.... And of course doing that wouldn't give further cause for Muslims to believe that they are being harassed, making even extremists, much more devout in their cause to destroy the 'infidels'. :roll:

[IDFM203]

And relax on the Israeli-fixation of yours. As for know, Israel are not able to control any "zones" or whatever you call it. Unfortunatly, Israel have little street cred due to how they "fix" their inner zone.Ok I was away for about a week and as such I will admit that I did not read this whole thread so if my response refers to something that you were not talking about then please excuse it.

However from just the above quote and the way I understand it, I believe that is a false statement, for we have regained almost full control over most zones or if not outright control (like in Gaza which we never really even attempted to regain) well we have it mostly contained (except for one case in the past four years, there has not been any homicide bombers that have come from Gaza)

Since Israel started to act against terrorism in 2002 (before then, due to political pressures and other reasons, we mainly just only responded from defensive positions and we rarely went on the offensive to go after the whole terrorism infrastructure) we have seen huge results that clearly disprove what you just said above.

The past year alone has seen a over 50 percent reduction (In fact that is the minimum and conservative estimate for there are signs that it is even a higher percentage) in the amount of homicide bombings and a much bigger drop in the amount of shooting attacks against Israelis (and its ONLY as a result of IDF actions that has forced those huge drops of percentages).

In fact I believe we are at now at a rate of over 90 percent!! Successful interception rate of the homicide bombers that attempt to get in and are either caught, killed, or arrested etc...

Anyways instead of going into it again, let me repeat a post of mine in response to Argyll who actually recognized rightly that what we have been doing has been working!!





Since the IDF began targetting HAMAS,how may suicide bombs have gone off?

Sounds like it's out of control in that department?

I don't believe there is any connection between killing the leaders of Hamas, and the number of suicide bombs. Quite on the contrary, it increases the likelihood of more such attacks. Hamas is now stronger and more popular than ever.

When there haven't been any retaliation it's because Israel has just been better to close the gaps, the suicide bombers have exploited in the past. Such as the one in the harbour, where they had been hiding in a container coming from Gaza.Argyll is totally right!!!

For in the absence of any genuine and real peace partner on the other side no matter what Israel does or doesn’t do, the IDF has been forced to act and indeed it has worked big time to limit the actions that were coming from their side!!

Listen mr nielson, no one is disputing the motivation from a lot of pali's to want to carry it out, but your factually wrong to say Israel’s offensive campaign against these terrorist group haven’t produced concrete results, for it has!!!!!

Before 2002, Israel had a shooting attack and a homicide bombing against its civilians on a almost daily basis (sometimes even twice a day) and for sure weekly, now after we went in and went after them (before we really didn’t do much but stayed in stationary defensive positions and only responded from there but never really went in and to go after them, like we have been doing recently) there have been a reduction of homicide bombings by well over 50 percent and shooting attacks against Israeli civilians have dropped even more so.

That’s fact!! and only as a RESULT of IDF actions.

I also reject your use of the words hamas "retribution", as if they only respond or attack out of retribution of IDF attacks for that’s false!! There is no calculating retribution with them, simply because they are on systemic campaign and they attack regardless of IDF actions and the fact that say this week there was no homicide bombing or that the week before the Rentisi assassination there was no either is not because hamas stopped or didn’t try, no its because they couldn’t succeed, for all the time the IDF is stopping and apprehending them (I saw a figure recently were now its at 90 percent success rate where we are successful in stopping infiltrations or apprehending or killing those that are on their way).

Lastly as for going after hamas leaders and individuals, it does work in limiting them, for it puts hamas in disarray and it disrupts their organizing and also a lot of those that have been killed or apprehend had expertise in bomb making, a expertise that not everyone has and it takes time for hams to replenish that lost expertise.

Let me and off with a repeat of a post of mine after the Rentisi assassination.




Yep we are after them big time!! :D


Oh and I remember last time after Yassin was killed, all the detractors here said it was a terrible thing because now Hamas will revenge blah blah or that it will just create more blah blah blah (as if they weren’t lining up before anyways :roll: )


The bottom line is this.

Hamas has been on a systematic campaign of terror for the past few years now and this whole notion of revenge for them is BS for they attempt and attack regardless of what Israel does or doesn’t do, the same is for their ominous announcements that Israel will pay big time for that too has been said from the beginning and it is always repeated so nothing new here.

Before the yassin killing they were trying and after they were trying….no difference in the amount of attempts from before and after.

Before Israel went after them a little over two years ago in a bigger way, there was a homicide bombing and shooting attacks almost daily and for sure weekly and now after the IDF actions, it has been dramatically reduced by over fifty percent to where even after yassin is killed and they said that Israel would pay for that immediately they couldn’t pull it off.

Of course I believe there will be another homicide bombing for there is no 100 percent awy to stop everyone, but we have limited them big time and are going to limit it even more with some of the bigger moves that we are making (the completion of the anti terror security fence and a few other things)


Shalom :D


Btw as for street cred as you put it, well while I guess you have your opinion on that and that’s fine (hey we all have one) I believe most of the people “in the know” from around the world or in the military from around the world, do give major street cred to the IDF, I mean its no wonder that the recent conference that was held in Tel Aviv on the subject of low intensity conflict (LIC), was attended by military attaches from militaries from around the world and was in general highely attanded.

To me that says a lot about our street cred from our peers from around the world and thats really all that matters ;) :D

Shalom :D

[Ichhabe]

IDFM 203; I really do hope you understood that I meant political street cred. Not military. Personally I think, and this come from my deepest conviction: NO ARMY WHEREVER IN THE WORLD AND WHATEVER TRAINING CAN BEAT IDF WITH CONVENTIONAL METHODS ON ISRAELI GROUND.

[IDFM203]

--edit---

[Fintin]

after much thought...i would buy everyone a coke....think about it

[IDFM203]

IDFM 203; I really do hope you understood that I meant political street cred. Well like I wrote to you before, I was away for about a week and as such I did not read the whole thread and as such I might have misunderstood you ;)

For to me it seemed as if you discounted the IDF street cred in combating terrorism which IMO we have been very successful!!

Anyways as to what you explain now, well my opinion is that we tried everything politicly before (like signing “peace” agreements with Egypt and Jordan, the Oslo agreements, pulling out of every pali city and town in the 90’s and then wanting to pull out of almost everything but was rejected by them with a war etc.. and there are a lot more political initiatives and moves we have made etc..) but when you have a other side that IMO still have lots of people that fight for the whole Israel, well there really isn’t anything in the political realm that is possible to work and as such I think it’s a fallacy to think Israel doesn’t have any street cred simply because IMO there is no political solution from the other side, no matter the political move that Israel makes (which again IMO it has made many).



Not military. Personally I think, and this come from my deepest conviction: NO ARMY WHEREVER IN THE WORLD AND WHATEVER TRAINING CAN BEAT IDF WITH CONVENTIONAL METHODS ON ISRAELI GROUND. Well thanks for those words of repect :D

I would say that except for the U.S. simply because its on a size and scope that is unmatched, I believe that no matter the ground (well this is all hypothetical and its also assuming you had the whole IDF on that ground ;) ), if the IDF were to face on a one to one bases any military, it would be victories, but that’s just my opinion as I am sure some people have theirs that would disagree with what I just wrote ;)

Shalom :D

[Ichhabe]

Remember IDFM 203; The US can only put so many forces on such a small place. :D


And for what it is worth: I am no expert on military matters and this is my opinion: I've been eye ball to eye ball with both US and Israeli soldiers. They are no match for you. :D

[IDFM203]

Remember IDFM 203; The US can only put so many forces on such a small place. :D


And for what it is worth: I am no expert on military matters and this is my opinion: I've been eye ball to eye ball with both US and Israeli soldiers. They are no match for you. :DWell now your talking my language ;) :D

Anyways indeed in one to one ratios in exercises between perspective units from both militaries, be it in Air Force or Infantry (as one of my commanders in basic training who had participated in just one such exercise) and in the tanks (as Javehn before has mentioned) indeed your words were proven to be true :D , though like I said, in general, on a whole military vs military, their huge size and scope IMO is unmatched and well I think that plays a part in who might win, but indeed perhaps even on that you might be right ;) :D

Shalom :D

[cut]

Can anyone name a country that has beaten (modern) terrorism? Britain is close, but other the UK?

[IDFM203]

Can anyone name a country that has beaten (modern) terrorism? Britain is close, but other the UK?Israel!!

Listen, with all due respect to what you acomplished after years of trying against the IRA, IMO Islamic fundamentalist suicidal terrorism is much different then the one you faced and IMO that kind of terrorism is on a whole other level in terms of commitment and size and scope, and with that type of terrorism, one which Israel faces, I believe IMO Israel has limited them big time (and even more so with the completion of the anti terror security fence) and that is itself a defeat of it.

But indeed its not a full defeat and frankly I believe that its impossible with that kind of suicidal ideology (and the want for a total destruction of Israel) to fully ever defeat them, but limiting big time their success, which we have now done, IMO should constitute a defeat and I believe Israel has now proven its possible to do!!

Shalom :D

[RavenW]

Israel!!

Listen, with all due respect to what you acomplished after years of trying against the IRA, IMO Islamic fundamentalist suicidal terrorism is much different then the one you faced and IMO that kind of terrorism is on a whole other level in terms of commitment and size and scope, and with that type of terrorism, one which Israel faces


Word.


Couldn't write better myself.