'When John McCain was my captive' [Archive]

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Snoshi

06-23-2008, 07:16 PM

Tran Trong Duyet - a sprightly retiree and amateur ballroom dancer - must rank as one of John McCain's more unlikely supporters.

Four decades ago, during the Vietnam war, Mr Duyet was in charge of the notorious Hoa Lo prison - the place where Mr McCain says he was brutally beaten and tortured during five-and-a-half years as an American prisoner of war.

"McCain is my friend," said 75-year-old Mr Duyet as he feeds the caged birds he now keeps in his garden in this coastal city.

"If I was American, I would vote for him."

Informal chats

Navy pilot John McCain was shot down during a bombing raid over the North Vietnamese capital, Hanoi, in 1967.

He ejected from his aircraft and parachuted into a city lake - only to be dragged out by an angry crowd, barely conscious, and with two broken arms and a broken leg.

From there he was taken to Hoa Lo prison, known to its American military inmates as the "Hanoi Hilton."

McCain has since described enduring months of solitary confinement and systematic torture which drove him to try to kill himself.

"I don't know how he'd react if he met me again," said Mr Duyet, flicking through old black and white photographs of himself and his American prisoners at Hua Lo.

"But I can confirm to you that we never tortured him. We never tortured any prisoners."

Mr Duyet reminisces instead about how he often summoned the future US presidential candidate to his private office for informal chats.

"We used to argue about the war - about whether it was right or wrong," he says.

"He is a very frank man - very conservative, and very loyal to his country and the American ideal.

"He had a very interesting accent and sometimes he taught me words in English and corrected my accent. I have followed his career since he left prison."

Rapprochement

So is Mr Duyet implying that that Senator McCain lied about his treatment at the Hanoi Hilton?

"He did not tell the truth," he says.

"But I can somehow sympathise with him. He lies to American voters in order to get their support for his presidential election."

Relations between Vietnam and the United States have improved dramatically in recent years, following the normalisation of ties between the former enemies in 1995.

Mr McCain played a crucial role in bringing about that initial rapprochement - a fact which helps explain Mr Duyet's enthusiastic support for the McCain presidential campaign.

"I wish him success in the presidential election," he says.

"Of course the Americans started the war in Vietnam and killed so many people - but now we want to leave the past behind.

"So now I consider John McCain my friend because he did much to mend relations between our two countries. And if he becomes president he will do more to improve those ties."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7459946.stm

Mr.Flint

06-23-2008, 07:19 PM

Anyone wanna bet that both Obamamaniacs and just rank and file of the rabid left would pick up this guy to "swiftboat" McCain?p-)

Bia

06-23-2008, 07:25 PM

John McCain... and countless others... American Heros.

My view...this old dude obviously will say there was no torture....even though we know there was.
Much like GW says there's currently no GITMO torture.....and of course we know there is.

McCain 08!!!

Ordie

06-23-2008, 07:26 PM

Anyone wanna bet that both Obamamaniacs and just rank and file of the rabid left would pick up this guy to "swiftboat" McCain?p-)

The war is over.

WarriorMonk

06-23-2008, 07:36 PM

I wouldn't trust a traitor (Duyet) whatsoever, even if he supported McCain somehow.

vinny_121_ND

06-23-2008, 07:54 PM

I wouldn't trust a traitor (Duyet) whatsoever, even if he supported McCain somehow.

Traitor? He's not a traitor. His job was to guard american prisoners.

[WDW]Megaraptor

06-23-2008, 08:01 PM

Anyone wanna bet that both Obamamaniacs and just rank and file of the rabid left would pick up this guy to "swiftboat" McCain?p-)

Considering that John McCain still can't lift his arms over his head due to being stretched on a rack like Mel Gibson in Braveheart and the torture of American POWs in Vietnam has been well documented, they'd have to be morons to try that.

4X4Driver

06-23-2008, 08:03 PM

It's kindda hard to believe that they didn't torture him...

Laworkerbee

06-23-2008, 08:06 PM

"But I can confirm to you that we never tortured him. We never tortured any prisoners."
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5673/bagdadboblargeng5.gif

RevengeSeeker

06-23-2008, 08:07 PM

But I can confirm to you that we never tortured him. We never tortured any prisoners.
Probably because you kill them first, right?...fvcking bullsh*tting VC's. . . :bash:

lol, McCain still gets my vote.

Kilgor

06-23-2008, 08:09 PM

Calanen

06-23-2008, 08:23 PM

"But I can confirm to you that we never tortured him. We never tortured any prisoners."

The reason McCain has yellowish coloured teeth is that they are not his real teeth, which were knocked out during interrogation sessions.

vinny_121_ND

06-23-2008, 08:27 PM

The reason McCain has yellowish coloured teeth is that they are not his real teeth, which were knocked out during interrogation sessions.

possibly, or maybe the lack of dental hygiene care.

Calanen

06-23-2008, 08:32 PM

Long article, 17 pages, but full account of McCain's captivity.

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/2008/01/28/john-mccain-prisoner-of-war-a-first-person-account.html?PageNr=1

John McCain, Prisoner of War: A First-Person Account

By John S. McCain III, Lieut. Commander, U.S. Navy

By John S. McCain (http://www.usnews.com/Topics/tag/Author/m/mccain_john_s/index.html)
Posted January 28, 2008

John McCain spent 5½ years in captivity as a POW in North Vietnam. His first-person account of that harrowing ordeal was published in U.S. News in May 1973. Shot down in his Skyhawk dive bomber on Oct. 26, 1967, Navy flier McCain was taken prisoner with fractures in his right leg and both arms. He received minimal care and was kept in wretched conditions that he describes vividly in the U.S. News special report:
http://www.usnews.com/pubdbimages/image/4440/FE_PR_080117mccain_pow185x123.jpg (http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/2008/01/28/john-mccain-prisoner-of-war-a-first-person-account/photos/#1) Lt. Cmdr. John S. McCain III after his release from captivity in Vietnam.
(Thomas J. O'Halloran for USN&WR/Courtesy Library of Congress)
http://www.usnews.com/pubdbimages/image/4441/FE_DA_080117mccain_pow185x123.jpg (http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/2008/01/28/john-mccain-prisoner-of-war-a-first-person-account/photos/#2) John McCain lies in a hospital bed in Hanoi, North Vietnam, after being taken prisoner of war.
(Francois Chalais)

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This story originally appeared in the May 14, 1973, issue of U.S.News & World Report. It was posted online on January 28, 2008.

Of the many personal accounts coming to light about the almost unbelievably cruel treatment accorded American prisoners of war in Vietnam, none is more dramatic than that of Lieut. Commander John S. McCain III—Navy flier, son of the admiral who commanded the war in the Pacific, and a prisoner who came in "for special attention" during 5½ years of captivity in North Vietnam.

Now that all acknowledged prisoners are back and a self-imposed seal of silence is off, Commander McCain is free to answer the questions many Americans have asked:

What was it really like? How prolonged were the tortures and brutality? How did the captured U.S. airmen bear up under the mistreatment—and years spent in solitary? How did they preserve their sanity? Did visiting "peace groups" really add to their troubles? How can this country's military men be conditioned to face such treatment in the future without crumbling?

Here, in his own words, based on almost total recall, is Commander McCain's narrative of 5½ years in the hands of the North Vietnamese.
The date was Oct. 26, 1967. I was on my 23rd mission, flying right over the heart of Hanoi in a dive at about 4,500 feet, when a Russian missile the size of a telephone pole came up—the sky was full of them—and blew the right wing off my Skyhawk dive bomber. It went into an inverted, almost straight-down spin.

I pulled the ejection handle, and was knocked unconscious by the force of the ejection—the air speed was about 500 knots. I didn't realize it at the moment, but I had broken my right leg around the knee, my right arm in three places, and my left arm. I regained consciousness just before I landed by parachute in a lake right in the corner of Hanoi, one they called the Western Lake. My helmet and my oxygen mask had been blown off.
I hit the water and sank to the bottom. I think the lake is about 15 feet deep, maybe 20. I kicked off the bottom. I did not feel any pain at the time, and was able to rise to the surface. I took a breath of air and started sinking again. Of course, I was wearing 50 pounds, at least, of equipment and gear. I went down and managed to kick up to the surface once more. I couldn't understand why I couldn't use my right leg or my arm. I was in a dazed condition. I went up to the top again and sank back down. This time I couldn't get back to the surface. I was wearing an inflatable life-preserver-type thing that looked like water wings. I reached down with my mouth and got the toggle between my teeth and inflated the preserver and finally floated to the top.

Some North Vietnamese swam out and pulled me to the side of the lake and immediately started stripping me, which is their standard procedure. Of course, this being in the center of town, a huge crowd of people gathered, and they were all hollering and screaming and cursing and spitting and kicking at me.

When they had most of my clothes off, I felt a twinge in my right knee. I sat up and looked at it, and my right foot was resting next to my left knee, just in a 90-degree position. I said, "My God--my leg!" That seemed to enrage them —I don't know why. One of them slammed a rifle butt down on my shoulder, and smashed it pretty badly. Another stuck a bayonet in my foot. The mob was really getting up-tight.

John S. McCain III, 37, is a 1958 graduate of the U. S. Naval Academy and a trained Navy pilot. His father, Adm. John S. McCain, Jr., was commander in chief of all U. S. forces in the Pacific during the Vietnam war. His grandfather also was a four-star admiral, his great-uncle an Army general during World War I. Lieut. Commander McCain is married, with three children. Their permanent home is in Orange Park, Fla. During captivity his weight dropped as low as 100 pounds. He still walks with a limp from his injuries. He plans to stay in the Navy, has been assigned to attend the National War College this August.

[Read the rest at the site]

StukaJr

06-23-2008, 08:35 PM

If McCain had that many broken bones - poking him with a stick would be torture...

Some Dude

06-23-2008, 08:36 PM

Calanen

06-23-2008, 08:36 PM

possibly, or maybe the lack of dental hygiene care.

Not possibly.

They cracked several of my ribs and broke a couple of teeth. Weakened by beatings and dysentery, with my right leg again almost useless, I found it impossible to stand.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23301752-663,00.html

WarriorMonk

06-23-2008, 08:36 PM

Traitor? He's not a traitor. His job was to guard american prisoners.

He is a traitor to every overseas Vietnamese like me, he sold himself out to this so-called ideology of "communism" and brought about the same sort of oppression of others they promised they would fight against. Where their so called "communistic paradise government" stands in Hanoi is really nothing but a corrupt shell of what it's supposed to be.

Calanen

06-23-2008, 08:37 PM

Some Dude

06-23-2008, 08:39 PM

Sadly yes, can you tell me how you post youtube video's on this thing please?

RevengeSeeker

06-23-2008, 08:44 PM

He is a traitor to every overseas Vietnamese like me, he sold himself out to this so-called ideology of "communism" and brought about the same sort of oppression of others they promised they would fight against. Where their so called "communistic paradise government" stands in Hanoi is really nothing but a corrupt shell of what it's supposed to be.

And we're considered "traitors" to them. Who started the war, fvcking dumbarses...rofl

The commies over there are full of Bullsh*t, I hope no one takes this guy too seriously.

vinny_121_ND

06-23-2008, 08:49 PM

bottom line is, this is war. Both sides of the conflict think they're right and the other is wrong. War is a ugly thing, it brings the worst of humanity in ways that are unimaginable.

budgie

06-23-2008, 08:51 PM

Anyone wanna bet that both Obamamaniacs and just rank and file of the rabid left would pick up this guy to "swiftboat" McCain?p-)

Not likely: that's the Right's tactic. What you've failed to grasp in your political bloodlust is that the left don't hate McCain - some will even vote for him. Obama supporters simply prefer their candidate over McCain and the Right's much beloved politics of hate don't really come into it. The way it should be.

Anyway, somehow the Left wouldn't have any credibility shouting, "The Viet Cong endorses McCain!" That sort of crap just isn't in their playbook. It would make them sound desperate to emulate Karl Rove's tactics, which they are not. When put that way it it should make all the "Hamas supports Obama" spew seem equally trite, but apparently in today's American political scrum what's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander...

So let's all scream it at the top of our lungs: The Viet Cong Endorses McCain!"

Now do you realise how stupid it sounds?

Rynnäkkökivääri

06-23-2008, 10:05 PM

Megaraptor;3339220']Considering that John McCain still can't lift his arms over his head due to being stretched on a rack like Mel Gibson in Braveheart and the torture of American POWs in Vietnam has been well documented, they'd have to be morons to try that.
Knowing how Obama speaks when he doesn't have anything written in front of him, and if he knows about this story, i wouldn't be surprised to see him say something about it. Remember, he had an uncle who served under Patton who jumped over Germany all the way to Poland to liberate Auschwitz, so he can do anything.

vinny_121_ND

06-23-2008, 10:47 PM

Megaraptor;3339220']Considering that John McCain still can't lift his arms over his head due to being stretched on a rack like Mel Gibson in Braveheart and the torture of American POWs in Vietnam has been well documented, they'd have to be morons to try that.

If Obama knew that, I don't think he should bring it up at all, or ever. Obama should just keep the door closed, and if the subject is brought up, he should say thank McCain for his strength during those years of captivity.

I'm not a big fan of torture, regardless of who it is inflicted upon.

vryhpyammoadded

06-23-2008, 11:03 PM

No torture my ass. Read this book from an old neighbor of mine. I remember him when he left and the condition in which he returned.

Prisoner of war
Prisoner of war: six years in Hanoi
John M. McGrath
Publisher: Annapolis, Md. : Naval Institute Press, c1975.
ISBN: 0870215272 LCC: DS559.4

JaketheSnake

06-23-2008, 11:33 PM

Not likely: that's the Right's tactic. What you've failed to grasp in your political bloodlust is that the left don't hate McCain - some will even vote for him. Obama supporters simply prefer their candidate over McCain and the Right's much beloved politics of hate don't really come into it. The way it should be.

Anyway, somehow the Left wouldn't have any credibility shouting, "The Viet Cong endorses McCain!" That sort of crap just isn't in their playbook. It would make them sound desperate to emulate Karl Rove's tactics, which they are not. When put that way it it should make all the "Hamas supports Obama" spew seem equally trite, but apparently in today's American political scrum what's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander...

So let's all scream it at the top of our lungs: The Viet Cong Endorses McCain!"

Now do you realise how stupid it sounds?

That just doesn't roll of your tongue. How about this "KKK US of A!" or some other popular favorites "God Damn America!" and "U.S. to Blame for 9/11".

noname

06-24-2008, 12:08 AM

possibly, or maybe the lack of dental hygiene care.

FOAD . p-)

noname

06-24-2008, 12:14 AM

eskachig

06-24-2008, 12:27 AM

He is a traitor to every overseas Vietnamese like me, he sold himself out to this so-called ideology of "communism" and brought about the same sort of oppression of others they promised they would fight against. Where their so called "communistic paradise government" stands in Hanoi is really nothing but a corrupt shell of what it's supposed to be.Better than being a French colony imo. Ho Chi Minh was a nationalist first and a communist second. Communist or not Vietnam is deciding its own destiny.

Hollis

06-24-2008, 12:49 AM

So let's all scream it at the top of our lungs: The Viet Cong Endorses McCain!"

Now do you realise how stupid it sounds?

The guy was Bac Biet not Viet Cong. I agree with nonames view of your post. Probably noone really care who ran the Hanoi Hilton.

RevengeSeeker

06-24-2008, 12:49 AM

Better than being a French colony imo. Ho Chi Minh was a nationalist first and a communist second. Communist or not Vietnam is deciding its own destiny.

The people have no say in anything... how are they deciding their own "destiny"?
Whore Chi Minh is a dumass... period... pointy bearded 4$$h0£3..

khukuri

06-24-2008, 04:58 AM

First he tortures the **** out of him, now he tries to sack his presidential ambitions by saying he lied. great ****

lightfire

06-24-2008, 07:55 AM

Time for McCain's supporters and critics to step up in full colours and fancy words I gues.

Not that I'm strongly for or againts McCain, but his critics interests me moar.

McCain presents himself/is presented as a war hero, who is supported by the majority of veterans, but then he votes againts Webbs Bill. Ain't that fighter mafia against the marines (or any other ground troops) all over again?

On the political ground McCain gets more support from veterans in general and as we can see from the article (question if it's not staged/biased) - not only from american ones. McCain certainly's got a charisma and strong character, but how honest are those?

[WDW]Megaraptor

06-24-2008, 09:26 AM

McCain presents himself/is presented as a war hero, who is supported by the majority of veterans, but then he votes againts Webbs Bill. Ain't that fighter mafia against the marines (or any other ground troops) all over again?

McCain proposed an alternate bill that would give an increasing amount of benefits based on number of years served (ie 8 years gets more benefits than 4 years). Webb's bill gives the same amount of college money to both 4 and 8 year veterans. Of course the Obama camp ignored this and tried to make political hay out of it.

lightfire

06-24-2008, 10:23 AM

^^

Yea, I've managed to digg those little details as well. Though in political race it won't matter much. Modern day issues would be more important than those little questions about McCain's past, essp the days as POW.

Hollis

06-24-2008, 11:02 AM

First he tortures the **** out of him, now he tries to sack his presidential ambitions by saying he lied. great ****

It is probably something more simple than that. Maybe a Old man wanting to look good.

duhblow7

06-24-2008, 01:59 PM

Anyone wanna bet that both Obamamaniacs and just rank and file of the rabid left would pick up this guy to "swiftboat" McCain?p-)

No no no no. Even the Obamaicans won't believe that McCain wasn't tortured. The Obamaican's know that McCain is an American Hero and we'd be stupid to attack his patriotism.

One thing I do find interesting though is this:

"McCain is my friend," said 75-year-old Mr Duyet as he feeds the caged birds he now keeps in his garden in this coastal city..."So now I consider John McCain my friend because he did much to mend relations between our two countries. And if he becomes president he will do more to improve those ties."
On his campaign bus recently, Sen. John McCain told reporters, "I hated the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live." Although McCain said he was referring only to his prison guards...

budgie

06-24-2008, 04:25 PM

The guy was Bac Biet not Viet Cong. I agree with nonames view of your post. Probably noone really care who ran the Hanoi Hilton.

I was merely pointing out in my usual long-winded manner that those who were quick to scream "Hamas supports Obama" could learn from the silence over this guy coming out and wishing McCain well in his campaign.

loganinkosovo

06-24-2008, 04:40 PM

He is a traitor to every overseas Vietnamese like me, he sold himself out to this so-called ideology of "communism" and brought about the same sort of oppression of others they promised they would fight against. Where their so called "communistic paradise government" stands in Hanoi is really nothing but a corrupt shell of what it's supposed to be.

That is the end stage of all Communism.

But first they have to murder a few hundred million people to get to that stage.

loganinkosovo

06-24-2008, 04:48 PM

So let's all scream it at the top of our lungs: The Viet Cong Endorses McCain!"

Now do you realise how stupid it sounds?

Yes, Real Stupid.

The Viet Cong aren't sending rockets into Israel on a daily basis, funding and commiting even more terrorism daily and sending out suicide bombers to murder western Men, Women and Children at the moment.....Hamas is.

Invisigoth

06-24-2008, 06:02 PM

Anyone wanna bet that both Obamamaniacs and just rank and file of the rabid left would pick up this guy to "swiftboat" McCain?p-)

McCain is good enough in swiftboating himself. Just sit back and watch. Drill in Alaska, don't drill there, give trials to Guantanamo prisoners, don't give them trials, etc. etc.

Pure entertainment.

budgie

06-24-2008, 09:01 PM

Yes, Real Stupid.

The Viet Cong aren't sending rockets into Israel on a daily basis, funding and commiting even more terrorism daily and sending out suicide bombers to murder western Men, Women and Children at the moment.....Hamas is.

It doesn't matter which is worse - Hamas or the VC: my point is that neither actively supports a US candidate. Claiming so on the basis of a couple of what could be interpreted as mildly encouraging words is a massive distortion of reality.