Question regardin British Arctic Sleepingbag

[Nephilim]

I might get my paws on one of brit. issue arctic sleeping bags (´02er version) for few quids, but i cant really find out what the comfort and maxium minus temperatures are for these..
most sites say - 20 so i guess its the maxium?

just want to double check.

anyone got experience with these?

cheers

[oldsoak]

I am only aware of one UK artic issue sleeping bag which was a down bag - very warm.
Its difficult to give a minimum rating for several reasons - firstly some guys are colder sleepers -ie need more insulation than others , secondly, it depends on what condition the bag is in and thirdly it depends on what you wear in the bag - ie additional liner, clothing etc and fourthly it depends where you kip. Arctic bags were issued to troops in undergoing arctic training in Norway, so they were pretty good.

I have come across the standard synthetic sleeping bag being sold as "Arctic" , do be careful.
can you describe the bag to me ?

[SineJustitia]

What OS said.

Plus: be aware that comfort and max. temperatures - standards were reshuffled some years ago; bags that were sold as minus 20 are now labelled roughly minus 9... But it's the same bag!

[Britboy]

Do you mean the issued one? Not heard it called an Arctic bag, but it is the one on general issue (not the tropical one)?

It is very warm. Great for winter, I have never had a drama with being cold in it. Be advised it is big though - even if you use the compression sack it comes with (most lads don't seem to). Probably a bit on the heavy side too if you're used to Softie bags or other light designs. However, I have been v cold in my Softie bag at times, but NEVER cold in my issue one. Guess which dossbag I went back to using once our week-long summer spell was over?

If its at a fair price, I'd say go for it. Its probably overkill for summer, and a bit on the big side if you are into ultralightweight kit or not using a big bergen, but for a winter sleeping bag that keeps you warm it is the mutts nuts. And to be honest I'd rather have a dossbag like that, than one that is a pound or two lighter but will leave you shivering all night long.

I have no idea what temp rating it is, so if you are on about v low temperatures (i.e. lower than a freezing wet windy British winters night!) then you probably want to wait for some of the Commando trained members to come along, I think it is the same kit as they use in Norway and I'm sure they'll be able to say if its good for this or not.

Edited to add: Plus, its got 2 pockets inside, for a monosock each! :p

[oldsoak]

I think the new GS bags were issued to replace the old 58 GS bag and the old Arctic bag with one type. The "monosock" holders can also be used to hold chemical warmers, not that I've ever been given one.
It is argued that a soldier clothed in properly layered combat 95 kit ( ie fleece etc ) will be as warm as toast in his sleeping bag, bivy bag and kip mat. Ie the idea is that instead of getting pte Smith a warmer bag, you get him to put on extra kit before getting in his maggot.

[Britboy]

Kinda makes sense. Why carry a Softy jacket and a big heavy arctic sleeping big, when Softy jacket + decent winter sleeping bag = the same warmth, for less weight and size of kit carried. Unless you get the Softy soaked whilst wearing it - that would not be too fun.

There was an Arctic-only sleeping bag before the one we have now? That isn't the one you had to be laced into is it? Read something about people being stuck in their dossbags during an attack due to that, but always thought it was a bit of a myth - that would NOT be fun!

[oldsoak]

Laced into ? Freudian slip, what ? I think those were WW2 issue. :lol:
Nah - it was a dark green bag with a full length zip - and you needed to shake the down around by turning it face down and giving it a good shake to do it. It was like the old patt 58 bag but without the waterproof back.

cut n paste this link

www.the-outdoor.co.uk/ishop/853/shopscr225.html

- its not current issue btw.

[Nephilim]

It´s this one here:

http://i1.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/f9/45/8567_1.JPG

http://i6.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/f9/45/966b_1.JPG

maybe the NSN above can help to get the details? no idea where i can check that...

condition is used, but it looks pretty ok to me.
seller says its dated 2002.

@SineJustitia
Thats why im asking, there wasnt any comfy and maximum minus temperature shown.

been in the woods last weekend, and slept in a friends summerbag.
was bit cold tho that day.

dont really if its not latest issue or that its big, it should just work :)

[Royal]

It´s this one here:

http://i1.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/f9/45/8567_1.JPG

http://i6.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/f9/45/966b_1.JPG

maybe the NSN above can help to get the details? no idea where i can check that...

condition is used, but it looks pretty ok to me.
seller says its dated 2002.

@SineJustitia
Thats why im asking, there wasnt any comfy and maximum minus temperature shown.

been in the woods last weekend, and slept in a friends summerbag.
was bit cold tho that day.

dont really if its not latest issue or that its big, it should just work :)

It's not the one that was being issued in 2002 as an arctic bag - it doesn't 'look' like an arctic bag, it doesn't even look like a down bag.

You pretty much get what you pay for with a good mountain/arctic bag - expect to pay well over £100 for one - but it will last - my 20 year old Rab is still going strong.

@BB - the issue doss bag is shyte at anything much below zero. It also takes up half your bergan. It's a typical example of MoD going with the cheapest bidder rather than the feedback from ITDU (or whatever its called now).

[Nephilim]

so what type of sleeping bag is it then?

[Royal]

so what type of sleeping bag is it then?

No idea.

Without checking the NSN agaisnt some kind of inventory, which I have neither the ability nor inclination to so p-), I can't tell you.

My best guess is that its some kind of stunt to sell to cadets and recruits and the like...

An NSN is no real guarantee that something's actually issued - furthermore most of the really gucci stuff that is issued doesn't have one. We always used to joke that anyone who wanted to know the true extent of all UKSF deployments just needed to hack into the computers of a certain outdoor gear supplier in the west country.

[Nephilim]

hehe i see :)
dont really have it with the NSN´s, just thought it might help.

how does the "real" issued arctic look like then?

[oldsoak]

Which one ?
@royal
I didnt know there was a new artic bag - the last ones I saw were the down type and they dissappeared of the shelf years ago. Wasnt the new GS bag in use in Norway with the RM in 2004 when a load came down with frostbite ?

[Nephilim]

Which one ?

brit one.
dont really care bout the issue year.

[oldsoak]

I only know of the one type I'm afraid , and from what has been said its not the current issue. The old one was down and they were available from surplus stores.
Down holds its loft better than synthetic. Unless the synthetic bags are new, the filling compresses after a period of time and use and they loose their warmth.
Whereabouts are you going to be using this btw ?

[Royal]

@royal
I didnt know there was a new artic bag - the last ones I saw were the down type and they dissappeared of the shelf years ago. Wasnt the new GS bag in use in Norway with the RM in 2004 when a load came down with frostbite ?

The GS bag was used in Norway (and on Ops in the Balkans) with disasterous results, but I'm not aware that the arctic bag was ever withdrawn in my time - it wasn't a general issue, but it was certainly available as long as I was in.

The last bag I was issued for that type of environment was a Buffalo - specifically because where we were working was f.ing cold, but also f.ing wet. It weighed a ton, but kept you warm.

[oldsoak]

Fibre pile type with an inner and outer bag and zip arms ? Barely compressible ?
The only time I saw those was once when playing peeping tom, and it was a private purchase. I didnt like it, but then I wasnt in a remotely harsh environment. Didnt know you could get them on flic.
I still use my GS 58 which probably means I should get out more often :lol:

[The Evil Doctor Faustus]

Lads are issued with the one type of synthetic bag, which is used in norway, as well as in more temperate climbs. Not sure of the official temperature rating, but its more than adequate for Norway in my opinion, obviously some lads sleep a lot more comfortably than others in the cold though & may not agree. However, i am 110% certain, this old style slug is much better than the new 2-piece 'softie-style' bags which were issued in ghanners a few years ago. Theyre a joke, have no breathability and hence you gather moisture inside and get icers. Winner.

COLDFEET & HAVERSACKS

[Britboy]

Hmm, fair enough Royal, I'm sure you are in the know what with Norway and such. I've never been anywhere that cold, but will say that I bought a Softy 9 as I thought the issue one was too big in my bergen, but went back to the issue one as my Softy would hardly seem to work in anything except the middle of summer, or in a warmer country. Softy make great jackets but I hardly use my sleeping bag now. The issue one has done me great for UK winter weather, but I've never been anywhere worse than that.

Maybe getting something made by a proper mountain kit supplier with down, is the way forwards. They are meant to be lighter and warmer I think, as long as you don't get them wet... But those are expensive bags!

[Royal]

Maybe getting something made by a proper mountain kit supplier with down, is the way forwards. They are meant to be lighter and warmer I think, as long as you don't get them wet... But those are expensive bags!

You get what you pay for I'm afraid and the MoD rarely seem willing to pay. A good down bag is the way forward but you must be disciplined to do wet/dry routine and keep it dry. If you can't or won't you need some kind of synthetic bag - hence my reference to the Buffalo.

I've only ever used a softee (and the cheaper issued version) jacket - great for Fobbiting, lasts about 10 seconds in the field - and the Softee 3 bag - a great summer daysac bag, but not really any better than a poncho liner. The issue jungle bag is better and can be used as a duvet if you're remfing it too.