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Calanen
06-26-2008, 12:07 AM
Free Speech Dies at the UN By Robert Spencer (http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/authors.aspx?GUID=7b37694b-a620-4022-a414-cdec23fe3fc9)
FrontPageMagazine.com | Wednesday, June 25, 2008


The war against free speech is advancing rapidly: Associated Press reported Thursday (http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008/06/19/story_19-6-2008_pg7_6) that “Muslim countries have won a battle to prevent Islam from being criticised during debates by the UN Human Rights Council.” Council President Doru-Romulus Costea explained that religious issues can be “very complex, very sensitive and very intense…This council is not prepared to discuss religious matters in depth, consequently we should not do it.” Henceforth only religious scholars would be permitted to broach them.


“While Costea’s ban applies to all religions,” AP explained, “it was prompted by Muslim countries complaining about references to Islam.” The ban came after a heated session on Monday, when the representative of the Association for World Education (AWE), in a joint statement with the International Humanist and Ethical Union, denounced female genital mutilation, the penalty of stoning for adultery and child marriage as sanctioned by Islamic law. Egypt, Pakistan and Iran angrily protested, interrupting the AWE speaker, David Littman, with no less than 16 points of order, and succeeding in getting the Council’s proceedings suspended for over half an hour. In the course of this contentious discussion, the representatives from the Islamic countries made numerous revealing statements – statements that are well worth examining as Islamic nations and organizations call with increasing insistence for restrictions on free speech in the West.


Imran Ahmed Siddiqui, the representative from Pakistan, echoed the ever-echoing refrain of all Islamic apologists in the West, when he complained that Littman’s initiative on genital mutilation, stoning and child marriage amounted to an “out-of-context, selective discussion on the Sharia law.” He asked that Littman not be allowed to speak: “I would therefore request the president to exercise his judgment and authority and request the speaker not to touch issues which have already been debarred from discussion in this Council.” The representative from Slovenia then protested mildly against this attempt to silence Littman: “Any NGO representative,” he reminded Siddiqui, “has the right to make a statement within the merits of the agenda item under discussion. We see the statement being made pertaining within the purview of the agenda item and we don’t see grounds for any restricting censorship in that respect.”


The representative from Egypt thereupon responded: “I would humbly and kindly ask my colleague from Slovenia to reconsider.” He warned: “We will not take this lightly….This is not about NGOs and their participation in the Council. This is about the Sharia law.” Pakistan’s Siddiqui added: “I would like to state again that this is not the forum to discuss religious sensitivity.” Why not? Again sounding notes that are increasingly familiar in any discussion of the elements of Islam that jihadists and Sharia supremacists use to justify oppression, Siddiqui explained: “It will amount to spreading hatred against certain members of the Council. I mean, it has happened before also that selective discussions were raised in the Council to demonize a particular group.” He addressed Costea: “So we would again request you to please use your authority to bar any such discussion again, at the Council.”


After more discussion, a recess, and another warning from the representative from Egypt, Littman was finally allowed to proceed. After noting that “almost 90% of the female population in the north of Sudan undergo FGM which, in many cases, is practiced in its most extreme form known as infibulation,” Littman declared: “We believe that only a fatwa from Al-Azhar Grand Sheikh Sayyed Tantawi – replacing the ambiguous fatwas of 1949, 1951 and 1981 – will change this barbaric, criminal practice, which is now growing even in Europe.”


At this point Egypt interrupted, complaining that “this is an attempt to raise a bad traditional practice to Islam. Sheikh Al-Azhar [Sayyed Tantawi] is the president of the largest and the biggest and the oldest Islamic university in the world.” He exclaimed: “My point is that Islam will not be crucified in this Council. That’s why we are challenging this ruling” – that is, Costea’s decision to allow Littman to deliver his address.


The representative from Germany asked: “Mr. President, I would kindly, through you, ask the Egyptian delegation and its representative if I did understand in his last intervention…he seemed to have said, and I quote, and I apologize if I did not understand this correctly – my understanding was, quote: “Islam will not be crucified in this Council”. And I would like this statement confirmed and if it is confirmed I would ask you, Mr. President, whether you consider this appropriate with regard to the question of mentioning religion and its symbols?” But Egypt ignored this question, and said: “I would ask to delete any references to the fatwa of Sheikh Al-Azhar [Grand Sheikh Sayyad Tantawi] and to delete all references to Sheikh Al-Azhar from this paragraph and from the official records of the meeting.”


Yet an Islamic legal manual endorsed by Al-Azhar states that circumcision is required “for both men and women” (‘Umdat al-Salik, e4.3). And Tantawi himself has said, according to Geneive Abdo, author of No God But God: Egypt and the Triumph of Islam, that female circumcision is “a laudable practice that [does] honor to women.”


Littman continued, noting that “the stoning of women for alleged adultery still occurs regularly in Iran, Sudan and other countries. In Iran, they are buried up to their waists in pits and blunt stones are used thereby increasing their agony in death.” Soon thereafter he was interrupted by the Iranian delegate, who declared: “The statement and the references made by this speaker in this statement is false and has nothing to do with the realities in my country. I just wanted, for the record… he said that…‘the stoning of women for adultery still occurs regularly in Iran’ – it’s not true, it is completely false, and is out of the question.”


Yet as of September 2007, eight women in Iran were awaiting stoning (http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Security/?id=1.0.1360427471) for adultery charges.


In sum, then, what Littman was saying was accurate, and the Egyptian, Pakistani and Iranian representatives consistently characterized these truthful statements as insults to Islam, and moved to have them suppressed. Not only does this shameful episode bode ill for the human rights of women in the Islamic world; it also represents another victory in the war against free speech that Islamic supremacists have been pursuing with particular energy lately, calling on Western authorities to prosecute Dutch politician Geert Wilders for his film Fitna and Danish cartoonist Kurt Westergaard for his drawing of Muhammad with a bomb in his turban, and in general to outlaw what they perceive as insults to Islam.


They have won at the UN Human Rights Council. That will not be the only battle of this war. But it remains to be seen whether any governing official in the West has the courage and the clear-sightedness to stand up to this challenge before it’s too late -- before we are required by law to stand by as mute witnesses to our own conquest and Islamization.


<SPAN class=backcontent>Robert Spencer is a scholar of Islamic history, theology, and law and the director of Jihad Watch (http://www.jihadwatch.org/). He is the author of seven books, eight monographs, and hundreds of articles about jihad and Islamic terrorism, including the New York Times Bestsellers The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0895260131/ref=ase_robertspencer-20/103-1603172-8127010?v=glance&s=books) and The Truth About Muhammad (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1596980281/sr=1-1/qid=1153855439/ref=sr_1_1/103-7948108-5943057?ie=UTF8&s=books). His next book, Stealth Jihad: How Radical Islam is Subverting America without Guns or Bombs (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1596985569/002-8167125-3983247?ie=UTF8&tag=robertspencer-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=1596985569), is coming this November from Regnery Publishing.


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rhino
06-26-2008, 12:17 AM
its UN, its becoming as impotent as League of Nations

RIP free speech

Curtis E. Bear
06-26-2008, 12:30 AM
Seriously, what does the UN do?

INAT
06-26-2008, 01:29 AM
I have always said Islam is rigid but brittle.It cannot stand criticism.

Alpheus
06-26-2008, 01:54 AM
Free speech at the UN died a long time ago.

INAT
06-26-2008, 01:57 AM
Free speech at the UN died a long time ago.


Where do people get this notion that there actually is such a thing as
free speech. We are not free to say whatever we want just the stuff that is not important thus giving the illusion of freedom.True freedom on this earth is a wife's tale.Some know this some like to live in dilusion.
But we all have some delusion to keep us going.

Hilbert
06-26-2008, 02:00 AM
Okay this political correctness thing is just going WAY to far. Islam cannot be criticized during debates by the UN Human Rights council? As much as I'd like to go into how much of joke the UN Human Rights Council is, what the bloody hell makes Islam so special? If they're going to forbid the criticizing of Islam, why not forbid the criticism of Christainity and Buddhism as well, hell let's go all out just to be fair and forbid the criticism of the extinct Ancient Egyptian religion while we're at it. Seriously, this is just fvcked up.

-Hilde

Calanen
06-26-2008, 02:11 AM
Littman is one of the best NGO speakers at the UN. He is the guy in the Youtube vid, going head to head with the Council about how they go berserk on Israel all the time, but never will let any discussion about Arabic human rights abuses go ahead.

INAT
06-26-2008, 02:18 AM
Littman is one of the best NGO speakers at the UN. He is the guy in the Youtube vid, going head to head with the Council about how they go berserk on Israel all the time, but never will let any discussion about Arabic human rights abuses go ahead.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhWgZu6tcZU

This is good also.

Kevlarhead
06-26-2008, 02:27 AM
UN is a huge joke, and has been for many years. We, the countries who support freedom and free speach should leave this dictator-loving organisation as soon as possible, and create DM instead - Democratic Nations.

INAT
06-26-2008, 02:34 AM
UN is a huge joke, and has been for many years. We, the countries who support freedom and free speach should leave this dictator-loving organisation as soon as possible, and create DM instead - Democratic Nations.


Well the UN is another attempt after the League of Nations at globalization and the centralization of power.We can see it pushed further with the EU the African Union a possible North American Union and the Central Asian Union.Who knows how far these will get and how much of a reality they are but it is a scary prospect.

LRPV
06-26-2008, 02:36 AM
Where do people get this notion that there actually is such a thing as
free speech. We are not free to say whatever we want just the stuff that is not important thus giving the illusion of freedom.True freedom on this earth is a wife's tale.Some know this some like to live in dilusion.
But we all have some delusion to keep us going.


Unfortunately, I have to agree with you.

Kevlarhead
06-26-2008, 02:50 AM
Littman is one of the best NGO speakers at the UN. He is the guy in the Youtube vid, going head to head with the Council about how they go berserk on Israel all the time, but never will let any discussion about Arabic human rights abuses go ahead.

Yeah, Littman is a great and intelligent speaker and all he say here is the truth. His only fault is that he is from Israel.

This video clearly show the arrogance and intollerence, and what UN has become.

Alfacentori
06-26-2008, 03:13 AM
The UN has long since ceased to carry out the purposes it was designed for, it is, as others have said, a toothless tiger of an organisation riddled by hopeless divisions and factions.

I can see a future not to far away where smaller powerblocks and groups of alliances rule the roost of international powerbrokering.

States will begin to look to regional alliances and trading blocks, these powerblocks will act independent of any true global organisaton/treaty.

Indeed if you look at the world and alliances/treaties already in place around the world today it has already begun.

The UN is as unworkable as its predicessor, there are too many self serving interests, factions and agendas for a truely pan global organisation to ever work, states should and increasingly will look to close alliances with likeminded states and the closer regional connections for their interests to be served.

Just my 2c's

Alfa

Alpheus
06-26-2008, 03:21 AM
Okay this political correctness thing is just going WAY to far. Islam cannot be criticized during debates by the UN Human Rights council? As much as I'd like to go into how much of joke the UN Human Rights Council is, what the bloody hell makes Islam so special? If they're going to forbid the criticizing of Islam, why not forbid the criticism of Christainity and Buddhism as well, hell let's go all out just to be fair and forbid the criticism of the extinct Ancient Egyptian religion while we're at it. Seriously, this is just fvcked up.

-Hilde


“While Costea’s ban applies to all religions,”

................................

SineJustitia
06-26-2008, 04:19 AM
We should ban all criticism, wheter it's on religion, politics or the weather.

And Mugabe is doing a fine job in Zimbabwe.

Mat_fr
06-26-2008, 06:35 AM
the author :

Robert Spencer is a
scholar of Islamic history, theology, and law and the director of Jihad
Watch (http://www.jihadwatch.org/). He is the author of seven books, eight monographs, and
hundreds of articles about jihad and Islamic terrorism, including the New York
Times Bestsellers The
Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0895260131/ref=ase_robertspencer-20/103-1603172-8127010?v=glance&s=books) and The
Truth About Muhammad (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1596980281/sr=1-1/qid=1153855439/ref=sr_1_1/103-7948108-5943057?ie=UTF8&s=books). His next book, Stealth
Jihad: How Radical Islam is Subverting America without Guns or Bombs (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1596985569/002-8167125-3983247?ie=UTF8&tag=robertspencer-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=1596985569),
is coming this November from Regnery Publishing.

roflroflrofl

a friend of yours, Calanen ?


mat

tsuri
06-26-2008, 06:40 AM
This is the Human Rights Council, the article makes it sound as if some important organ were affected.
Nothing they decide there is actually binding so it is not really a big deal. All UN institutions other than the Security Council only exist to please the Third World in the first place..

Calanen
06-26-2008, 07:47 AM
the author :


a friend of yours, Calanen ?

mat

Don't know the guy, but he's pretty sensible. I agree with a lot of what he has to say.

dava
06-26-2008, 09:09 AM
Funny that a citizen of a country where you cant say that Jesus is a **** makes complains about free speech.

Calanen
06-26-2008, 09:26 AM
Funny that a citizen of a country where you cant say that Jesus is a **** makes complains about free speech.

I am a citizen of more than one country, and have lived in many. I also swore an oath to defend the United States Consitution. Would I ever need to choose between Australia and the US? The Kangaroo and the Eagle have always been friends. I do not think it would ever happen.

You might think I make the laws in this country, but sadly I do not. And its very difficult to generialise about the whole 'country', when there are 6 states, two territories, and the Commonwealth that all have their own laws.

What I can say, is there is far more freedom in this country, than in many around the world. More tolerance, than in pretty much any islamic nation you would care to name. We do not have, and have never had, a history of freedom of speech like the US or a right to freedom of speech. As a matter of practice however, you are mostly free to say whatever you like.

I prefer though, the US model of true freedom of speech.

loganinkosovo
06-26-2008, 05:11 PM
Everyone should have known this **** was going to happen when they put Syria in charge of the "Human Rights" Council......
All I've go to say is for the love of God please throw those fu@kers
out of the States and send the whole lot of them packing off to Iran and see how much the vaunted "Diplomatic" corps will love Islam then!

Drill Here, Drill Now and UN Out!

:)

emiljoe
06-26-2008, 09:21 PM
Congratulations to the Disunited Nations for protecting Islamic Extreminism! :fork:

With love,

Osama Ben Laden

Mastermind
06-27-2008, 04:16 PM
What LoganIK said x 2!!