US removes North Korea from the ‘axis of evil’

[eurekaa]

US removes North Korea from the ‘axis of evil’

After NKorea submits its nuclear program activities

BEIJING -
North Korea handed over a long-delayed account of its nuclear activities on Thursday, the White House said, a move that means the North is no longer on the “axis of evil” and will be relieved of U.S. sanctions.

The United States said it would act to remove North Korea from its list of state sponsors of terrorism. The White House welcomed the action and said it would also lift sanctions on North Korea under the “Trading with the Enemy Act.”

President George W. Bush would make a public statement at 1140 GMT.
U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice earlier told reporters in the Japanese city of Kyoto there was still work to do in verifying that North Korea, which tested a nuclear device two years ago, had given up the pursuit of atomic weapons.

Experts on the long-running dispute said the declaration was a step forward, but one that took the negotiators deeper into uncertainties about who will make further concessions, and how much other countries are willing to trust Pyongyang.

China, the closest Pyongyang has to an ally, has hosted six-country talks that last year secured a deal offering North Korea energy, aid and diplomatic concessions in return for disabling its main nuclear facility and unveiling its past nuclear activities.

That phase of the nuclear disarmament deal was due for completion by the end of 2007, but wrangling over money, aid and the contents of the North’s “declaration” has held up progress.

The six-party talks bring together North and South Korea, China, the United States, Japan and Russia and there have been many expected near-breakthroughs over the years that never materialized.

"Axis of evil"

The United States said North Korea had pledged to destroy on Friday the cooling tower at its Yongbyon nuclear complex, a symbolic event highlighting its commitment to disable the source of its bomb-grade plutonium.

The steam seen coming out of the cooling tower in spy satellite images has been the most visible sign of the plant’s operation. In an unprecedented move, North Korea has invited some Western media to record the event.

The chief U.S. envoy to the talks, Assistant Secretary of State Chris Hill, told reporters on Wednesday before heading to join Rice in Kyoto that North Korea’s declaration was likely to be soon followed by a new round of six-party negotiations.

Bush bracketed North Korea, Iraq and Iran in an “axis of evil” after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the United States, accusing them of state-sponsored terrorism and of seeking weapons of mass destruction.

Removal from the U.S. list would ease trade restrictions and open the way for other cooperation with the United States, and eventually enable North Korea to work with the World Bank and other international institutions.

The source of this thread ( click here ) (http://www.onlines.ws/?p=696)

[Rictor]

So the measure of one's evil is based solely on the possible acquisition of nuclear weapons? And not, for example, the treatment of its citizens? Double-you-tea-eff?!

The North Korean regime is possibly the most repressive in the world. Compared to NK, Syria, Iran and, hell, pretty much everyone else look like paragons of virtue. To lift sanctions against NK, while enforcing them against light-weight despots like Belarus, if absurd.

[-Church-]

Aww why ? That idea was such a good idea in the first place !

[SBL]

No coincidence.

N Korea hands over nuclear data



George W Bush cautiously welcomes the belated declaration

North Korea has handed over a long-awaited account of its nuclear programme to China, diplomats said.
The declaration, which is six months overdue, is expected to detail North Korea's plutonium enrichment efforts.
But analysts say it is not expected to go into detail about the country's nuclear arsenal or its alleged uranium enrichment programme.
US President George W Bush cautiously welcomed the move but said the US still had "serious concerns" about Pyongyang.
He said he was notifying Congress of his intent to take the communist state off a US list of state terrorism sponsors in 45 days - if the declaration was complete.
'No illusions'
"The United States has no illusions about the regime in Pyongyang," Mr Bush told a White House press conference.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif NORTH KOREA NUCLEAR DEAL
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44780000/jpg/_44780291_tower_ap_226b.jpg
2002: N Korea pulls out of previous deal after US accuses it of having secret uranium programme
October 2006: North Korea carries out its first test of a nuclear weapon
February 2007: N Korea agrees to end nuclear activities in return for aid
July 2007: North Korea closes its Yongbyon nuclear reactor and allows IAEA inspectors in
December 2007: N Korea misses a deadline to hand over a declaration of its nuclear work
June 2008: N Korea hands over nuclear programme details; US cautiously welcomes the move

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/inline_dashed_line.gif



We remain deeply concerned about North Korea's human rights abuses, uranium enrichment activities, nuclear testing and proliferation, ballistic missile programmes and the threat it continues to pose to South Korea and its neighbours."
The handover is part of six-party efforts offering North Korea diplomatic and economic incentives to disarm.
But Mr Bush's national security adviser said those sanctions lifted were relatively minor and mostly affected those trying to import goods from North Korea and conduct financial transactions.
"I will tell you, and the North Koreans understand, that the degree of easing of sanctions is relatively minor," Stephen Hadley told reporters.
"North Korea remains one of the most sanctioned regimes."
Mr Hadley added that the US could re-impose sanctions if Pyongyang failed to live up to its expectations.
The US State Department said Pyongyang's declaration would be subjected to an "iterative process of verification" aimed at resolving discrepancies and achieving a "complete and correct" declaration.
This process will include:


Reviewing 19,000 pages of documentation relating to North Korea's nuclear activities dating back to 1986, which was handed over last month
Being given short-notice access to declared or suspect sites related to the North Korean nuclear programme
Being given access to additional required documentation and nuclear materials for sampling
Interviewing personnel in North Korea

Thorny negotiations
South Korean Foreign Minister Yu Myung-hwan said it would be "regrettable" if the declaration lacked details of Pyongyang's nuclear stockpile.

News of the handover came from the Chinese and South Korean foreign ministries.
In North Korea itself, a senior US diplomat and media have been invited to witness the destruction of a nuclear cooling tower at its Yongbyon reactor on Friday, in an apparent show of commitment to the deal.
Since agreeing to end its nuclear activities in February 2007, North Korea has shut down the reactor.
But reaching agreement with North Korea on the next stage of the disarmament deal - the declaration - has proved a tough task.
Analysts say the most thorny part of the negotiations will focus on what happens to any nuclear bombs and weapons-grade material.
US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said at a G8 meeting in Japan that there was still work to do in verifying Pyongyang had given up the pursuit of atomic weapons.
Another expected gap in Thursday's declaration is any disclosure on how the North allegedly helped Syria build what the Americans say was a nearly-completed nuclear reactor.
BBC diplomatic correspondent Jonathan Marcus says the Syrian facility - destroyed by Israeli warplanes in September 2007 - was strikingly similar to the Yongbyon reactor.
He also says that with opinion on Capitol Hill running strongly against Pyongyang, Congress may seek to block any White House move to remove North Korea from its terror blacklist.
Japan, meanwhile, is concerned de-listing North Korea as a terror sponsor could marginalise its efforts to trace Japanese nationals abducted by Pyongyang 20 years ago.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7474952.stm

[damagejackal]

So the measure of one's evil is based solely on the possible acquisition of nuclear weapons? And not, for example, the treatment of its citizens? Double-you-tea-eff?!

The North Korean regime is possibly the most repressive in the world. Compared to NK, Syria, Iran and, hell, pretty much everyone else look like paragons of virtue. To lift sanctions against NK, while enforcing them against light-weight despots like Belarus, if absurd.

Its called diplomacy, using sticks an carrots.
At least give some credit where its due, They've gotten further in the last 5 years than 50 years worth of sanctions an hubris ever acheived.

[Lee]

Next the U.S. can form a united front with North Koreas against China. Afterall North Korea has to have someone to use those weapons against.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

So the measure of one's evil is based solely on the possible acquisition of nuclear weapons? And not, for example, the treatment of its citizens? Double-you-tea-eff?!

The North Korean regime is possibly the most repressive in the world. Compared to NK, Syria, Iran and, hell, pretty much everyone else look like paragons of virtue. To lift sanctions against NK, while enforcing them against light-weight despots like Belarus, if absurd.

NK was the recipient of additional sanctions due to it's nuke program. They dropped the program, we dropped the sanctions. Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

[delio]

Something very symbolical will should take place tomorrow, ..

Destruction of North Korean nuclear reactor's cooling tower (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2008/06/23/am.amanpour.nukes.cnn?iref=videosearch)

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

I heard that John Bolton was fairly critical of Bush on this North Korea thing, Bolton reckons NK should still be sanctioned as NK have only shared information on their processing and reactor development and not weapons development.

[SBL]

I heard that John Bolton was fairly critical of Bush on this North Korea thing, Bolton reckons NK should still be sanctioned as NK have only shared information on their processing and reactor deveopment and not weapons development.

Well, you can't make everyone happy, but the fact that the DPRK is willing to visibly dismantle their ace-in-the-hole says a lot about the weakness of their position. As important as saving face is in that part of the world, I'd say this is a pretty big deal.

[hank]

NK was the recipient of additional sanctions due to it's nuke program. They dropped the program, we dropped the sanctions. Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

I guess. I just love the fact that the anti-Obama crowd has been saying how soft Clinton was on NK and now Bush makes a concession for something that Clinton was making concessions to try and get. And frankly neitehr policy worked. Through it all NK got the nukes it wanted even with Bush's touhg-guy attitude. Its a little ironic. But you are right, the only way we can ever get NK to do what we want is to make some concessions (I guess more accurately quid pro quo) and get them back in the real world. The silly posturing won't work bc NK's govt will never give in even if it kills the whole country. Which is terrible but really hard to deny.

I'd hate to be a North Korean, I'll tell you that. Human life there is worth next to nothing.

hank

[hank]

I heard that John Bolton was fairly critical of Bush on this North Korea thing, Bolton reckons NK should still be sanctioned as NK have only shared information on their processing and reactor deveopment and not weapons development.

True. Bush really didn't get everything he wanted. The article I read in the ATL paper said the disclosure we received that lead to the concession did not contain all that we asked for. But I still say this is the right move. That tough guy stuff has not and will not work with NK.

hank

[SBL]

Hank, I'm a little perplexed. On the one hand you're decrying Bush's 'tough guy' policy, and yet you admit that concessions were made in your first post post there. Maybe I just need a second cup of coffee, but that seems contradictory to me.

[hank]

Hank, I'm a little perplexed. On the one hand you're decrying Bush's 'tough guy' policy, and yet you admit that concessions were made in your first post post there. Maybe I just need a second cup of coffee, but that seems contradictory to me.

Bush has clearly changed his policy IMO. In his first 4 years he hardly even talked to NK for any reason. He simply pointed to mandates already given and said he wouldn't talk until they complied. Then he changed and began dialogue to get compliance. So he's softened a bit (I think even his own people admit to that). So my point is this - the tough guy "I don't talk to terrorists" stuff didn't work at all. Now, he's softened a little and he at least got something. I don't think what he got is all the great but its better than before under any measure.

I'm not really being critical of Bush, I'm just recognizing that he's softened his position a little and its gotten a result. But what happened to get this result (negotiating from something Bush said was not negotiable) is a far cry from what happened in his first 4 years (no negotiation whatsoever) and much much closer to Clinton's policy than to the policy Bush used in his first 4 years. I see your point - I was a little unclear.

hank

[SBL]

Ok, I understand what you're saying there. I think I'm inclined to agree for the most part, as negotiations with the DPRK are a pretty back-and-forth affair, but I think the US/ROK needs to be less concerned with N.Korean attitudes than they need be of ours.

[xav]

Soon, operators will be selling vacations and trips to N. Korea?

[BearInBunnySuit]

Soon, operators will be selling vacations and trips to N. Korea?

They have been for years but people on this forum shouldn't sign up for them (including moi) given our critical stance on the regime. We'd all end up in the gulag, digging our own graves.

[signatory]

Still pretty cool news.

I'm at least more hopeful with NK/SK than anything about Africa...

[SBL]

They have been for years but people on this forum shouldn't sign up for them (including moi) given our critical stance on the regime. We'd all end up in the gulag, digging our own graves.

I'm skeptical of that. I'd go in a heartbeat.

[BearInBunnySuit]

I'm skeptical of that. I'd go in a heartbeat.

OK, I concede that maybe I am a bit paranoid. I did have a chance to go on a junket to NK once and declined because I thot I symbolized everything their regime hated. Even now, I wouldn't go because I don't trust them.

[gaijinsamurai]

I would consider going in the future, but not now.

Those trips are so controlled by the North Korean government, that I'd feel like Big Brother were watching me the entire time, and with justification. I would have few, if any, chances to talk to any North Korean people, other than government-appointed agents, ordered to try to impress me with the glory and benevolence of the Dear Leader.

Also, just because US-NK relations might be getting better, doesn't mean Kim Jong Il is any less-evil. I would not want my dollars going into the hands of his government.

[annihilation]

So exactly what is different between this agreement and the one the clintons had? I think this was a bad move.

[Hollis]

Gaijin, I don't see the problem, everyone in N. Korea loves Kim. It has to be wonderful.








<-- can't believe I actually said that. Next time your down, beer is on me.

[gaijinsamurai]

Hahaha! I'm getting in the car right now!

[matthew.manhorn]

North Korea is a good country to travel, especially for adventurous people who loves to visit "mysterious" countries (like me), it's one of the few 1984'ish countries along with Canada and Cuba

You're only allowed to visit the capital city though

You can visit their high schools but i warn you. their communist propaganda REALLY gets on your nerves, you need to have great tolerance if you were to travel to North Korea.

[lightfire]

I think such a move is to avoid preasure (at least) war (at most) on two 'axis of evil'. Now, with NK out of media attention and US preasure, concentration should move on Iran. All those bashings about "US and/or Israel will attack Iran soon" should come to an end in one or other way. Either such NK style agreement or military strikes..

just my 2cents.

[SBL]

I think such a move is to avoid preasure (at least) war (at most) on two 'axis of evil'. Now, with NK out of media attention and US preasure, concentration should move on Iran. All those bashings about "US and/or Israel will attack Iran soon" should come to an end in one or other way. Either such NK style agreement or military strikes..

just my 2cents.

North Korea only sporadically receives media coverage, and personally, I wouldn't classify it as having major influence on domestic or foreign US policy/attitudes.

[szr]

US removes North Korea from the ‘axis of evil’ Love the title of the thread. :lol:

The "axis of evil" is just a line in a State of the Union Address speech made by the President following the 9/11 attacks, unlike the State Sponsors of Terrorism list which is a real list with real implications for those who are listed. The DPRK was removed from that second list.

[toki]

So the measure of one's evil is based solely on the possible acquisition of nuclear weapons? And not, for example, the treatment of its citizens? Double-you-tea-eff?!

The North Korean regime is possibly the most repressive in the world. Compared to NK, Syria, Iran and, hell, pretty much everyone else look like paragons of virtue. To lift sanctions against NK, while enforcing them against light-weight despots like Belarus, if absurd.

Since when is evil a political description? How can you measure it? It's just a movie type campaign word - PR. Dumbed down politics.