Differences between the Diemaco C8 and the Colt M4A1

[alexishere2007]

I did some research on the differences of the Diemaco C8 SFW and the Colt M4A1 but all I found was that the barrel and the carry handle of the Diemaco C8 SFW was different from the M4's. (not even sure if this true)

So basicly could you guys put the differences between the C8 SFW and the M4A1?

(If I get enough informatin I'll be editing the wikipedia article of the C8 with the differences for future reference)

Thanks guys

[Birger]

There are differences between the SFW and the C8A2. First you have to decide which of them you want to differentiate from the M4?

You might find these links helpful:
http://diemaco.com/c8-page.htm
http://diemaco.com/sfw-page.htm

[kinney_bmx]

Off the top of my head the SFW has a hammer forged heavy 16 inch barrel. The M4 has a 14.5. All the c8s use a buttstock pad. Uhm The carrying handle is different like you said. Can i state the obvious and say the C8 is canadian and the M4 is american?? :)
Thats all i can think of off the top of my head if anythign else comes up ill post it
But you do need to know the differences between the C8 and M4 cuz they arent exact copies either.
If anything just PM me mate

[SMGLee]

C8A2
Hammer forged 14.5 chrome lined barrel with 1:7 twist
M4 feed ramp cut
Flat top with weaver style rail cuts
A1 style removable carry handle, instead of thumb nut, it has wing nut for the mount.
Barrel mounted tri-rails so they did not have to pay for the more expensive KAC RAS
M4 stock with butt pad
Standard CAR handguards


M4A1
Button rifled 14.5 chrome lined barrel with 1:7 twist
M4 feed ramp cut
Flat top with picatinny rail cuts
A2 style removable carry handle.
Double heat shield M4 handguards
Enhanced M4 stock

this is about as far as I know.

since Diemaco been purchased by Colt, i am not sure what has been changed....


http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/DSCN0218.JPG
This is my Diemaco barrelled PWS piston M4...

[kinney_bmx]

C8 SFW
16 inch Heavy profile hammer forged barrel 1:7 twist
Old M4 style 4 position stock
Knights RAS carbine length though I think that they come with standard handguard and might come with the diemaco TRIAD mount
Safe-Semi-Full Auto
Slightly modified Carrying Handle/rear sight
Flattop rail
weighs 3.6 kg
Stock extended- 34.6 inch
Stock retracted- 31.5 inch
Rubber butt pad
Anybody can correct me if im wrong though


If you modify the wikipedia Article you mise well add some pictures because there are very few pictures on the c7/c8 article

[kinney_bmx]

Beautiful firearm SMG
:)

[Hispeed1]

Showing off your FN exclusive rail covers! How dare you! J/K. Cool stuff.

[-[Crosshair]-]

All of these have the heavy 16" barrel:

C8SFW: KAC RAS front grip (that's all I know, we don't use them in the CF, other countries do)

C8FTHB: This is what most of the CF has right now. Standard old CAR grips with heatshields and uses the TRIAD rails to add accessories. Sling-loop on the left side of the lower-receiver's backplate. Black grips, flat-top receiver, no rubber pad on the old 4-position stock. We don't have that A1-style detachable carrying handle in the CF, we either put an Elcan C79/C79A2 (green), an Eotech or a BUIS on it. I have a picture of a C8FTHB with an Eotech and the new folding vertical grip that I had to install on every damn C7A2 and some C8FTHBs in the batallion on it, I'll post it later when I get home.

C8A3: Most recent version, this will be the new CF carbine (we already started receiving them, replacing C8FTHBs). Same as an FTHB except it has green grips, comes with an Elcan C79A2 and basically comes with some of the features that the C7A2 got over the C7A1: ambidextrous fire-selector and magazine release, the longer and ambidextrous charging-handle latch (that gets caught on your gear and bends or breaks the charging-handle), the rubber pad on the stock...

C8FTHBA3: These were normal FTHBs that were converted into C8A3s before the C8A3 came to light, so they simply stamped "A3" next to "FTHB" instead of using new receivers like the newly-manufactured C8A3. 400 of these were made before they just started freshly stamping C8A3 on the receivers.

Hope this helps.

[kinney_bmx]

-;3349258']
C8A3: Most recent version, this will be the new CF carbine (we already started receiving them, replacing C8FTHBs). Same as an FTHB except it has green grips, comes with an Elcan C79A2 and basically comes with some of the features that the C7A2 got over the C7A1: ambidextrous fire-selector and magazine release, the longer and ambidextrous charging-handle latch (that gets caught on your gear and bends or breaks the charging-handle), the rubber pad on the stock...

If you dont mind me asking what unit are you in? Seems like a really nice weapon. Do you know if you guys will ever get the RAS system on your c8s? Ive seen a few c7a2s with them but they dont seem to be standard

[-[Crosshair]-]

Attached to the 2ième Bataillon Royal 22ième Régiment at Valcartier... mechanized infantry, the guys get good stuff here.

The only RAS I've seen on C7A2s are on pictures of soldiers in the sandbox. We aren't allowed to put that sort of thing on our rifles, overseas it'll depend on who's in command, I guess, but I wouldn't know.

I don't see us getting RAS for our rifles anytime soon at all. Maybe CSOR, but I wouldn't know again.

[kinney_bmx]

-;3349321']Attached to the 2ième Bataillon Royal 22ième Régiment at Valcartier... mechanized infantry, the guys get good stuff here.

The only RAS I've seen on C7A2s are on pictures of soldiers in the sandbox. We aren't allowed to put that sort of thing on our rifles, overseas it'll depend on who's in command, I guess, but I wouldn't know.

I don't see us getting RAS for our rifles anytime soon at all. Maybe CSOR, but I wouldn't know again.
It just seems like those traid rails are bad stuff. Looks to be awful front heavy. Seems like a RAS system would be a better bet for you guys then those TRIADs

[SMGLee]

It just seems like those traid rails are bad stuff. Looks to be awful front heavy. Seems like a RAS system would be a better bet for you guys then those TRIADs


Tri-Rail is developed instead of adapting the RAS because the Canadian military did not want to pay for the RAS.

My C8A2 barrel seem to be 14.5inch in length....

[alexishere2007]

The gas systems are the same?
Btw add anything about the C8 not just the SFW.

[SMGLee]

Both are direct gas guns...

[kinney_bmx]

ignore.....

[kinney_bmx]

C8FTHB: This is what most of the CF has right now. Standard old CAR grips with heatshields and uses the TRIAD rails to add accessories. Sling-loop on the left side of the lower-receiver's backplate. Black grips, flat-top receiver, no rubber pad on the old 4-position stock. We don't have that A1-style detachable carrying handle in the CF, we either put an Elcan C79/C79A2 (green), an Eotech or a BUIS on it. I have a picture of a C8FTHB with an Eotech and the new folding vertical grip that I had to install on every damn C7A2 and some C8FTHBs in the batallion on it, I'll post it later when I get home.

C8A3: Most recent version, this will be the new CF carbine (we already started receiving them, replacing C8FTHBs). Same as an FTHB except it has green grips, comes with an Elcan C79A2 and basically comes with some of the features that the C7A2 got over the C7A1: ambidextrous fire-selector and magazine release, the longer and ambidextrous charging-handle latch (that gets caught on your gear and bends or breaks the charging-handle), the rubber pad on the stock...
That information from Crosshair would be good to put in the article with some wording changes

Also you could find information through these pages
http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-rifle-c8fthb-carbine.htm
http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-rifle-c8a1-carbine.htm
http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-rifle-c8-carbine.htm

[kinney_bmx]

And theres plenty of pictures of them in use on www.gun-world.net (http://www.gun-world.net) though it seems to be down at the moment

[alexishere2007]

i will start my updating starting monday

[alexishere2007]

one last thing does the C8 and variants have as many stoppages as the M4?

[kinney_bmx]

one last thing does the C8 and variants have as many stoppages as the M4?
I cant answer that too well though they have a better barre so they probably arent as ****e to being moverheated

[alexishere2007]

Thanks for all the info n links guys

[Kilo1-1]

Tri-Rail is developed instead of adapting the RAS because the Canadian military did not want to pay for the RAS.

My C8A2 barrel seem to be 14.5inch in length....

Speaking of the tri-rail that attaches to the barrel, I read in a Small Arms Review article saying that mounting too many things on there (PEQ, flashlight, etc) actually torqued the entire barrel assembly downwards from the wright, resulting in the cracking the bolt carrier after long use from the misalignment.

[SMGLee]

I cant answer that too well though they have a better barre so they probably arent as ****e to being moverheated


The diemaco barrel does not make one bit of difference as far as being less ****e to overheating. cold hammer forged barrels are just more accurate since the chamber and the rifling are pound into shape with a one piece mandel, where the standard M4 barrel has the chamber and rifling cut separately, and the hammer forged barrels are more durable in theroy.



Speaking of the tri-rail that attaches to the barrel, I read in a Small Arms Review article saying that mounting too many things on there (PEQ, flashlight, etc) actually torqued the entire barrel assembly downwards from the wright, resulting in the cracking the bolt carrier after long use from the misalignment.

The added weight does make for some POI shift and also lost of zero when the barrel start to heat up, all the weight can add to the stress of the barrel. as ar as misaligning the bolt to extension, i have only heard RAS user pulling down on the handguard with the VFGand the bolt start to shear with long sustained full auto fire.

[Nephilim]

i would crossjump to a question if you dont mind?

seeing that the brits got a new profile on their SFW barrels, i wondered if the new C8FTHBA3´s /C8A3 also would feature that.

on the newer british L119A(no-idea-what-number) the middle ring on the reinforced endpiece of the barrel, has been removed as the guys use the L17A1 launcher instead of the m203 where the ring was necessary to mount the m203.
do the new C8FTHBA3/C8A3´s also have the new profile, or would they keep the old? not sure what grenade launching platform the canuks use :/

[DE_Six]

i would crossjump to a question if you dont mind?

seeing that the brits got a new profile on their SFW barrels, i wondered if the new C8FTHBA3´s /C8A3 also would feature that.

on the newer british L119A(no-idea-what-number) the middle ring on the reinforced endpiece of the barrel, has been removed as the guys use the L17A1 launcher instead of the m203 where the ring was necessary to mount the m203.
do the new C8FTHBA3/C8A3´s also have the new profile, or would they keep the old? not sure what grenade launching platform the canuks use :/

The CF use the M203. However, the mount is different, it is designed by Diemaco (now Colt Canada) and it makes the GL sit lower than the US mount.

[kinney_bmx]

i would crossjump to a question if you dont mind?

seeing that the brits got a new profile on their SFW barrels, i wondered if the new C8FTHBA3´s /C8A3 also would feature that.

on the newer british L119A(no-idea-what-number) the middle ring on the reinforced endpiece of the barrel, has been removed as the guys use the L17A1 launcher instead of the m203 where the ring was necessary to mount the m203.
do the new C8FTHBA3/C8A3´s also have the new profile, or would they keep the old? not sure what grenade launching platform the canuks use :/
http://home6.inet.tele.dk/groen/patruljelinks/m203/SAL-M203A1.GIF
Thats the canadian version of the M203a1

[Roy Batty]

If you dont mind me asking what unit are you in? Seems like a really nice weapon. Do you know if you guys will ever get the RAS system on your c8s? Ive seen a few c7a2s with them but they dont seem to be standard

My current issued C8A2 has an RAS and an Eotech (with a 4x Magnifier) and a flip up BUIS (all added by myself). I'll post a pic or two in a few days.

[darmil]

I use a C7A2/M203 with EO tech over here the reason there is a spacer between the 203 and the rifle is so you can still mount a bayonet stupid idea i think.

[kinney_bmx]

My current issued C8A2 has an RAS and an Eotech (with a 4x Magnifier) and a flip up BUIS (all added by myself). I'll post a pic or two in a few days.
yes please mate :)

[Sheikh Al Stranghi]

Now that Diemaco has been taken over by Colt, is there still a difference in newly produced weapons?

[MaverickCowboy]

@ SMG lee
are there other hammerforged barrels availible for the M4 not from Diemaco?, but can also be used on gaspiston AR's?

also, im a bit confused about seeing Hammerforged, and heavy barrel. what exactly do they mean Heavy barrel? thicker for lots of sustained fire?

Thanks in advance.

[SMGLee]

@ SMG lee
are there other hammerforged barrels availible for the M4 not from Diemaco?, but can also be used on gaspiston AR's?

also, im a bit confused about seeing Hammerforged, and heavy barrel. what exactly do they mean Heavy barrel? thicker for lots of sustained fire?

Thanks in advance.

Mav,

The cold hammer forged barrel are available to the civilian in forms of Noveske barrel works...expensive, but if you got the cash, its worth it.

As far as piston AR, the HK 416 has cold hammer forged barrel....

you can also have PWS install their excellent piston system to a Noveske barrel and mate that to a Daniel Defense rail system for you....

Hammer forging basically takes a barrel blank, a 10,00ton press beat the blank into the barrel shape. while the blank is getting opounded, a mandrel that cost about 25k inside the barrel is shaping the chamber and the rifling. it is very slick and it is suppose to yield some of the most accurate barrel on the market...

all FN's MG barrel are hammer forged, and they take those barrels and make their SPR sniper systems....

[MaverickCowboy]

those Pistons can be used on other rail systems correct?
lets say. an LWRC midlegth rail? (example, just cause im fond of that frame)
also, sorry if this sounds dumb, but can a midlength Gas sytem be used on a full size barrel? 18 or 20?

midlength pistin from PWS, and a Noveske rifle barrel. is this a possible combo with a LWRC midlength rail?

[SMGLee]

PWS system does not allow you to bury the gas block under the handguard, this is just how it is.

if you want to bury the piston, get a LWRC M4A2 with 16inch barrel and a mid length rail.

The best advantage for piston shines in the carbine length, especially in the 10 inch CQB...

[-[Crosshair]-]

My C8A2 barrel seem to be 14.5inch in length....

C8, C8A1s and C8A2s have the 14.5" barrel on it. The older C8 uses the slim non-heavy barrel like on a CAR-15 while the two others have the heavy barrels. The newer C8s (SFW, FTHB, A3, etc) have the 16" heavy barrel.

[-[Crosshair]-]

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4319/oohyeahpj8.jpg

Double bonus.

[Nephilim]

nice :D

bottom is an fthb i assume?

[-[Crosshair]-]

Yes, yes it is.

[kinney_bmx]

Crosshair have you gotten any pictures of the C8A3 yet?

[-[Crosshair]-]

No, it's the same thing as the FTHB except in green and with the ambidex stuff, man. I'm on vacation anyways.

[deagle]

i've always thought that Canada uses diemaco b/c it was better for cold climates, but does anyone know how the m4 stands up in that terrain ??

[SMGLee]

It is basically the same gun, same operating system, no real difference as far as the basic gu is concern. the M4 will do everything the C8 can do or vice versa.

[Kilo1-1]

Diemaco doesn't happen to sell those 16in SFW barrels to civilians do they? I'd like to have one, as they do meet the 16in requirement and the heavier weight doesn't hurt accuracy either...not to mention having an AR with a atypical barrel from everyone else at the local range.

[-[Crosshair]-]

Diemaco doesn't happen to sell those 16in SFW barrels to civilians do they? I'd like to have one, as they do meet the 16in requirement and the heavier weight doesn't hurt accuracy either...not to mention having an AR with a atypical barrel from everyone else at the local range.

Diemaco does not sell to civilians. Period.


The cold hammer forged barrel are available to the civilian in forms of Noveske barrel works...expensive, but if you got the cash, its worth it.

Reading the thread = win!

[Hornet85]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y55/Reppluton/Ovrigt%20Militart/C8.jpg
My C8. it wher isued like that and i dont know if ther is anything chenged on it.
(The top one that is)

Now i got all the nice stuf from the botom one on the C8 so.


C8 and C8SFW
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y55/Reppluton/Ovrigt%20Militart/C8SFW.jpg

[Bombtrack]

In Canada, buffer springs you!

[Der_ganze_Tod]

Any C8A3 pics yet ? Or any other C8 / C7 would be much appreciated too.

And could somebody please confirm that the C8A3 has a 16" barrel instead of a 14,5" . I read the wiki article about them and it confused me bit regarding the barrel length.

[The Dane]

I think it might be this one..
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo145/heinebilleder/diemaco2.jpg
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo145/heinebilleder/diemaco.jpg

All new from Colt Canada with 16" barrel. Don't know Colt's name for it thou..
But this is replacing all C7 and C8's in the Danish army, and will be called M/08 in Denmark..

[Lerch]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Black_Hawk_169/DSC06657.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Black_Hawk_169/DSC06656.jpg

Diemaco C7A2, excuse the grip and torch though, they're personal kit ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Black_Hawk_169/DSC06094.jpg

There's my old one with the older bayonet.

[Der_ganze_Tod]

:) Cheers mates, lovely pics!

[-[Crosshair]-]

Please confirm that the C8A3 has a 16" barrel instead of a 14,5" . I read the wiki article about them and it confused me bit regarding the barrel length.

Our entire batallion got C8A3s in september, they have the 16" barrel. Read my earlier post in this thread with all the differences on the different C8s.

[Infanteer Two Seven]

i actually had a chance to handle C8 CQB.
my section commander is in OPP.

[Bro Jangles]

lerch is that the sig light grip? it looks like what they sell with the sig 556.

[Kilo1-1]

lerch is that the sig light grip? it looks like what they sell with the sig 556.

Looks like the Mako G2 light/grip combo.
http://www.tjgeneralstore.com/mako_tactical_equipment.htm

[Der_ganze_Tod]

-;3773628']Our entire batallion got C8A3s in september, they have the 16" barrel. Read my earlier post in this thread with all the differences on the different C8s.

That's why I was a bit confused, 'cos you listed it with 16" Barrel and Wikipedia ,which I generally don't rely on but still managed to confuse my a bit, with a 14.5". Thanks for scattering my confusion :).

Since your unit got C8A3's you surely have some pics, don't you? p-)

[cadpateh]

It just seems like those traid rails are bad stuff. Looks to be awful front heavy. Seems like a RAS system would be a better bet for you guys then those TRIADs

i like those tri-ads

[Roy Batty]

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2777/img1276a2.th.jpg (http://img5.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1276a2.jpg)

My C8FTHB. I added an RIS and my own Eotech 4x magnifier.

The C8A3, btw, has painted furniture. The fore stock is spraypainted and just scratches off.....cheap crap.

[-[Crosshair]-]

The C8A3, btw, has painted furniture. The fore stock is spraypainted and just scratches off.....cheap crap.

Yep, they take black handguards and paint them green.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5812/0114091121vz7.jpg

[Roy Batty]

It was the cheap way to go (as usual). They did spend some $ on new 10.5" barrels though and they are a nice piece of kit.

[-[Crosshair]-]

Except when you are stuck with them and engaging targets at over 250m or something.

And I'm excited about that one-piece upper receiver that Diemaco made.

[Roy Batty]

Yah we had guys carry the 10.5 all the time and I never thought it was a great idea. There are times that call for it but by and large I was happy with my issued C8 upper.

[-[Crosshair]-]

The CP guys are making the most out of them right now.

[Roy Batty]

Thats who I am talking about....

[-[Crosshair]-]

lawl alright, didn't know.

Were you in Wainwright in october? Cause I'm one of the weapon techs that installed all your **** on both your uppers, if you were there.

[Roy Batty]

-;4005168']lawl alright, didn't know.

Were you in Wainwright in october? Cause I'm one of the weapon techs that installed all your **** on both your uppers, if you were there.

I was in Afghanistan in Oct. I was there from end April 08 until last month.(10 months)

[-[Crosshair]-]

Oh, goddamn.

[trunk_munkey28]

No kidding... Dunno how you did that Sig.

[CanuckZ]

I was wondering about the brand of the C7A2 charging handle and the sling attachment. Somebody help please?

[Ipkiss]

any comments on the new Dutch C7/C8?
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/7227/diemacoc7.th.jpg (http://img37.imageshack.us/i/diemacoc7.jpg/)

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/3502/diemacoc8.th.jpg (http://img692.imageshack.us/i/diemacoc8.jpg/)

Good points:
-more positions on the stock
-ambi fire-selector
-rails (finally)
-flat top
-Comp M4 for every soldier (3x magnifier only for selected units)

Dislikes:
-ankward rail systems
-grip pod too tall
-no matching sling yet (just 3-point)
-no rear sling attachment point @ stock
-light/laser interferes with the grip pod it seems.

[kinney_bmx]

I'd imagine most people would put the LLM on the 3 or 9 o'clock rails and not the 6, that would get rid of the interference. Would be cool to hear from somebody whos used it though.

Is that tan piece on the rail removable or is the rail only at the front

[CanuckZ]

I am surprised to see an Israeli buttstock, but it is a good choice. The stock rail is reversible and allows for mounting an adjustable cheek pad for higher optics. They should have got the excellent tan Israeli ergo grips. Having three shades of tan...and black is weird. Why not finish the rifle in dark earth or tan?

[-[Crosshair]-]

I have a good question. Why on Earth are people still using those terrible thermold magazines?

[CanuckZ]

Those are terrible magazines.

[Ipkiss]

Yeah those magazines are still issued but they're starting to give more and more malfunctions (tilting follower). Metal magazines have been issued to troops in theater but we're also looking for a permanent solution. Lots of troops have bought their own mags, which officially is not allowed.
CAA and magpul magazines are amongst the contenders I believe. BUT... then there is the money issue. (€ 680 million budget reduction)
This also goes for a replacement sling.

Can someone name the brands of the particular items? I personally believe the rifles look like someone went shopping in an aftermarket store, eg like crap.

[CanuckZ]

Commandarms stock, maybe all. I like that stock, really, and have one with the cheek riser. It is way better than original C8 stock.

[1Echo]

Commandarms stock, maybe all. I like that stock, really, and have one with the cheek riser. It is way better than original C8 stock.

does that one also contain a 4x AA battery compartiment?

[CanuckZ]

Yes. On the opposite side of the stock rail is a trap door. The adjustable cheek piece (optional) is wonderful, but the butt pad is like a hard tire. Non-slip, but hard.

[1Echo]

Yes. On the opposite side of the stock rail is a trap door. The adjustable cheek piece (optional) is wonderful, but the butt pad is like a hard tire. Non-slip, but hard.

I am not very "in-to" those kind of adjustments so I was wondering, is it possible to buy cheekpad's that fit on the stock of i.e a standard M4 or C8?

[CanuckZ]

Yes. Several companies, like Leapers, make them for older pattern stocks. I also use one, but they are only useful if you have a scope/optics on a fixed handle, or a high scope mount. The optional cheek riser for the CAA stock slides down when normal sights are used.

[1Echo]

Yes. Several companies, like Leapers, make them for older pattern stocks. I also use one, but they are only useful if you have a scope/optics on a fixed handle, or a high scope mount. The optional cheek riser for the CAA stock slides down when normal sights are used.

I do use optics, thanks for the info I'll go look for one!

[The Dane]

Beautiful firearm SMG
:)

X2 ... hard to imagine that one can own that kinda hardware, .. here from Denamrk

[The Dane]

Well.. I've tried it. And it's very very good.. C8 IUR.
It's going to replace both C7A2 and C8A2 in our army.. (16.5" barrel I believe?)..
Perfect ergonomics, everybody can shoot precisely with that weapon!