Islamo-fascism

[RavenW]

ISLAMO-FASCISM and its relationship with Free World

First (before it's going to turn in flame war), let me put my definition of Islamo-fascism.

Islamo-fascism [definition] - a political ideology based on the supremacy of one religion over the others and the will to enforce this particular religion on the rest of mankind.

Prominent Islamo-fascists: Ayatolla Homeini, Osama bin Laden, Sheikh Yassin.

Goals of Islamo-fascists. The world's supremacy and establishing one totalitarian state under the leadership of Supreme leader (Furer) and indocrination of Islamic law all over the world.


Islamo-fascists take oath to the Supreme Leader (Furer) of Iran.
http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/564_1086225141_recrutsforhezballah.jpg

[Kilgor]

often Fascism
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control.


in other words

yes

[seruriermarshal]

Thank you , I think WW3 has began !

[talib_killa34]

This is the next big threat to all of mankind once it gets rolling.

Or hasn't it already? :|

[786mine]

don't know what to say, pretty grim picture.

[RavenW]

Yeah... it's sad. :(

Call me naive, I still believe we will win. Justice, humanity and compassion will prevail over the forces of evil. woot Hey, Jude! :)

[seruriermarshal]

Yeah... it's sad. :(

Call me naive, I still believe we will win. Justice, humanity and compassion will prevail over the forces of evil. woot Hey, Jude! :)

You are right !

woot

[ariweiner]

Islamo-fascism [definition] - a political ideology based on the supremacy of one religion over the others and the will to enforce this particular religion on the rest of mankind."
Prominent Islamo-fascists: Ayatolla Homeini, Osama bin Laden, Sheikh Yassin. It is interesting to note that none of the three mentioned fit the definition of "Islamofascist" that you cite.

"The call to wage war against America was made because America has spear-headed the crusade against the Islamic nation, sending tens of thousands of its troops to the land of the two Holy Mosques over and above its meddling in its affairs and its politics, and its support of the oppressive, corrupt and tyrannical regime that is in control." - Usama bin Laden (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/interview.html)

"Our main battle has always been against Israeli soldiers and Jewish settlers. The attacks inside Israel are operations we carry out in response to Israeli crimes against our people. They are not the strategy of our movement. Our strategy is to defend ourselves against an occupying army and against settlers and settlements." - Shaikh Ahmed Yassin (http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/node.php?id=1224)

[ExtraT]

"Our main battle has always been against Israeli soldiers and Jewish settlers.... Our strategy is to defend ourselves against an occupying army and against settlers and settlements."

One tiiiiiiny little thing to consider: HAMAS's rhetoric always said that whole of "geographical palestine" is "occupied territory" and every Israeli citizen is a "soldier" and a "settler".

Oh, and BTW, if you like this scum so much, why don't you go wear a suicide bomber's belt, eh?

[ExtraT]

Islamo-fascists take oath to the Supreme Leader (Furer) of Iran.
http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/564_1086225141_recrutsforhezballah.jpg

BTW, that's a picture of Hizbullah terrorists.

[seruriermarshal]

"Our main battle has always been against Israeli soldiers and Jewish settlers.... Our strategy is to defend ourselves against an occupying army and against settlers and settlements."

One tiiiiiiny little thing to consider: HAMAS's rhetoric always said that whole of "geographical palestine" is "occupied territory" and every Israeli citizen is a "soldier" and a "settler".

Oh, and BTW, if you like this scum so much, why don't you go wear a suicide bomber's belt, eh?

Perhaps he hope other people go wear a suicide bomber's belt , He control them ......

:roll:

[RavenW]

And in terms of Osama bin Laden...

when he was asked would his "jihad" stop if all the conditions were met, he said "NO" even before 1998.

When asked what would follow, he answered that Holy martyrs would continue the war until ONE Islamic state will be establish in the world "according to teachings of Quaran" and Jews and christians would have to pay special taxes to Islamic halifs in order to live on this earth.

Then correspondent asked him: "What about Hindu and Chinesse?"

Osama: "They will convert to Islam!"

Correpondent: "and if they don't?"

Osama: "any person, who is not member of people of the book must either convert to Islam or face extermination"...

as simple as it is...

so I guess, it is better if it would be you that actually carry this "bright" news to some of our forum members who happen to be from China or India that "if they won't convert, the extermination awaits them after conquering of the world by "holy" islamic armies of Usama"...

I guess some people are not familiar with teaching of Muslim Brotherhood, Sheih Yassin is one of their followers.

Just go and read about it before answering something and showing to the world your ignorance.

[RavenW]

Glance at the Hierarchy of Power in Iran
By The Associated Press

A look at the leadership structure and powers in Iran.

Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei: The ultimate decision-maker on all major state and religious matters. He appoints all key positions in the ruling... and controls judiciary and Revolutionary Guards. Supporters believe he is incapable of error and answerable only to God.

...




Jews barred in Saudi tourist drive
by CNN International

Saudi Arabia is barring visits by Jews after launching a new visa scheme to try to attract more tourists.

The Saudi tourism department website said tourist visas would not be issued to Israeli passport holders or Jews.
Earlier this month, it began a drive to attract more foreign visitors by issuing visas to non-Muslim tourists for the first time.
It has traditionally only issued visas for work purposes, officially-approved visits and pilgrimage to Mecca.
There has not previously been an explicit ban on Jews travelling to Saudi Arabia, though people with Israeli passports or with Israeli stamps in their documents, have not been allowed in.


any questions? :)

[RavenW]

What I mean by 'Islamo-fascism'


Posted: March 3, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

Some people still maintain Iraq could not possibly be in league with the likes of Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida terrorist network because, after all, Saddam Hussein is a "secular" dictator, and bin Laden is an "Islamic fundamentalist."

While it's true that most Arab regimes fear the jihadists, it is also true that many have sponsored them – Iraq being just one example.

In fact, Iraq actively supported al-Qaida for a full decade leading up to Sept. 11, 2001. That support is well-chronicled in Yossef Bodansky's "Bin Laden: The Man Who declared War on America." (Keep in mind this book was published a full year before Sept. 11.) Bodansky names names, dates, times, places. The man the U.S. Congress turns to as a terrorism expert leaves little doubt about Iraq's long history with al-Qaida.
Iraq even went so far as to provide the fuselage of a Boeing 707 airliner to the terrorists so they could practice hijacking techniques. To me, this fact alone more than justifies the coming war against Iraq.

But, more to the point, why would the "secular" dictator of Iraq support the jihadists? The answer: Because they have more in common than you think.

Obviously it is true that both al-Qaida jihadists and Hussein share a common hatred of America and Israel. But the answer is deeper than that. More broadly speaking, they both hate Jews, Christians and Western Civilization. While one, Hussein, is only nominally a devotee of Islam, the other, bin Laden, is fanatically devoted to his faith.
That's enough common ground for them to share an evil ideology I call "Islamo-fascism." This is the real enemy we face on a global scale.

There are many faces of Islam – some malignant, some benign. But there is one force challenging the U.S., Israel, Christians and Jews worldwide.

That force is Islamo-fascism.

Understanding the concept of Islamo-fascism can help you understand why millions of non-Muslims around the world have been rallying to stop the war on Iraq. They may not be Muslims, but they are sympathetic to aspects of fascism. This ideology had broad appeal in France and Germany 60 years ago. It should not be difficult to understand its renewed appeal in those two countries.

You see, fascism is not what most people think it is. It is not the "right wing" polar opposite of "left wing." Instead, as I have explained many times before, fascism is a form of socialism and a kissing cousin of communism. Both are totalitarian ideologies that require broad state control, if not ownership, of the means of production.
But you may also notice that both communism and fascism share varying degrees of antipathy toward Jews and Christians and Western Civilization.
Now, perhaps, you can see why the peace marchers, many of whom describe themselves as "progressives" and socialists, have more sympathy for Saddam Hussein than they do for Israel and the United States.

For more than 20 years, I have been writing about a growing unholy alliance between the socialists (both communist-oriented and fascists) and the radical Islamic world. Fascism is the force that binds them together.

Why do fascists and other socialists hate America, Christians and Jews?
Because they detest and reject the idea of a transcendent God who reveals absolute moral law to the human race. Fascists and communists both reject that notion for their own reasons. Communists reject it because they seek to impose God-like authority on the state, and fascists reject it because they traditionally seek to impose an alternate religious value system on the people.

Nazis, for instance, sought to restore an ancient pre-Christian consciousness – or a kind of paganism – on the people of Germany. Likewise, the Islamo-fascists – be they Saddam Hussein or Osama bin Laden – have their own unique religious perspectives.
Are you beginning to understand how and why Hussein and bin Laden can create a political and military marriage of convenience? Are you beginning to understand how and why white, skinhead, neo-Nazi-types could be recruited to work alongside Islamo-fascists in acts of terrorism, such as the Oklahoma City bombing?

To defeat an enemy, you must first identify it.

We're not fighting a war on "terrorism." Terrorism is merely a tactic of war. We're also not fighting a war against Islam. It's time to recognize just whom we are fighting, what we are up against. The enemy is Islamo-fascism. And that's just another way to say the enemy is fascism.


...

[martinexsquaddie]

saudi battle hymn = onward christian soldiers :)
I always thought the saudis issued rather a lot of "tourist visas" in 1990 :lol:

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Ah Raven W you quote from worldnetdaily.com if there ever was a less quotable media source then it might be kavkazcenter.com for worldnetdaily is its western equivalent. Big news on today's worldnetdaily.com is much the same as the yesterday's news and the week before and that is Kerry, the Boy Scouts and evil Muslims the only entertaining article is "Madonna battles rabbi over 'slut' comment" this was a funny article to say the least. A recurring theme with worldnetdaily is the OKC bombing and how it was either Saddam or Bin Laden or both that assisted in or committed the act. If you have room on your credit card for a bit of extra spending you can order from the site a wide range of books on many different political and cultural subjects that all blame Clinton for something or other.
Your Islamo-Fascism theory is about as warped and believable as the Protocols Of The Elders Of Zion and the photo of the guys doing the funny salute means little if anything at all. To save me the time Googling can you tell me where this Islamo-Fascism concept came from.

[AirZone]

Sadly, the world is so blind and hypocrite that the guys in europe wake up (like in spain) only now... so was USA before 11/9.

while we face this **** for years... :|


human nautre, cant understand it really.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Sadly, the world is so blind and hypocrite that the guys in europe wake up (like in spain) only now... so was USA before 11/9.

while we face this **** for years... :|


human nautre, cant understand it really.
British troops are on the front line in Iraq and our SF are assisting countries fight terrorists all over the middle east so shut it and as for putting up with **** we put up with the **** that the founders of Israel flung at our troops that were trying to keep the peace in Palestine.

[AirZone]

1) did I said England ? I truly respect UK for thier hard job, remember you are not part of europe ;) and you had the IRA...

2) trying to keep peace in palastine ? AH ! go tell this myth to some one else while they sent people who ran from the holocost back to europe! dont start to argue about history becuase the british was in the favor of the arbs not the jews (btw the one who helped you to counqer it was the jews and not the arbs)

so dont start with history because you will lose...and badly... :roll:

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

2) trying to keep peace in palastine ? AH ! go tell this myth to some one else while they sent people who ran from the holocost back to europe! dont start to argue about history becuase the british was in the favor of the arbs not the jews (btw the one who helped you to counqer it was the jews and not the arbs)

so dont start with history because you will lose...and badly... :roll:
I will lose badly you say is this against your version of history or the rest of the worlds, and at no time did we ever send any Jews back into the hands of the Nazis its also worth remembering that the most of the Jews that stayed on in Europe after WW2 prospered and lived in peace.
Many Israeli's just cannot accept that acts of terror were committed by Jews in Palestine and were at best no better than the terrorists that Israel is now fighting.

[American Patriot]

The only reason you talk **** about World Net Daily or Newsmax is because they are pro-Liberty/conservative.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

The only reason you talk **** about World Net Daily or Newsmax is because they are pro-Liberty/conservative.
Nah the only reason that I talk **** about World Net Daily or Newsmax is because they produce purile barely readable nonsense and as for being Pro-Liberty pull the other one I have seen some top class Pro-Liberty journalism on the Web but so far none of it has appeared on either of these sites. I don't know what kind of conservatism that you subscribe to but it cannot be the big business loving, god fearing anti dope fiend kind of conservatism if that's the case AP they don't want to know you. How's the plantation getting on I hope the weather and soil has been kind. :)

[seruriermarshal]

The only reason you talk **** about World Net Daily or Newsmax is because they are pro-Liberty/conservative.
Nah the only reason that I talk **** about World Net Daily or Newsmax is because they produce purile barely readable nonsense and as for being Pro-Liberty pull the other one I have seen some top class Pro-Liberty journalism on the Web but so far none of it has appeared on either of these sites. I don't know what kind of conservatism that you subscribe to but it cannot be the big business loving, god fearing anti dope fiend kind of conservatism if that's the case AP they don't want to know you. How's the plantation getting on I hope the weather and soil has been kind. :)

:roll:

[citizen-k]

2) trying to keep peace in palastine ? AH ! go tell this myth to some one else while they sent people who ran from the holocost back to europe! dont start to argue about history becuase the british was in the favor of the arbs not the jews (btw the one who helped you to counqer it was the jews and not the arbs)

so dont start with history because you will lose...and badly... :roll:
I will lose badly you say is this against your version of history or the rest of the worlds, and at no time did we ever send any Jews back into the hands of the Nazis its also worth remembering that the most of the Jews that stayed on in Europe after WW2 prospered and lived in peace.
Many Israeli's just cannot accept that acts of terror were committed by Jews in Palestine and were at best no better than the terrorists that Israel is now fighting.

1) Britain did send Jews BACK to germany during ww2, thats a historical fact.
2) The British army had "Jewish" unit who faought along with it against the Nazis - in the deserts of Africa and as paratroopers in Europe
3) The Arabs DID NOT have such units
4) The Arabs DID how ever, collaborated with the Nazis (their leader even met Hitler)
5) Jewish terror was NOTHING like the terror Israel is facing today:
a) The attacks were NOT aimed against British citizens (unless you know about school buses in London which were blown up by Jews)
b) Almost every attack was pre-notified by the attackers. (king david hotel attack was a huge mess - but the message was sent a few minutes before the explosion)
6) The British government avioded the vote for the Jewish state
7) The British government (some parts of it) are fully supporting the Palestinians and their crazy attacks (certian foreign minister?)
8) I still love scotch Whiskey, Irish Guiness and British redheads

[S'13]

I will lose badly you say is this against your version of history or the rest of the worlds, and at no time did we ever send any Jews back into the hands of the Nazis


Yeah right... :roll:


The Sinking of the Struma
(February 1942)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On December 12, 1941, the Struma sailed from Constanza in Rumania with 769 immigrants aboard. The vessel, commissioned by the New Zionist Organization and the Irgun, was the last to leave Europe in wartime. The ship was actually an old cargo barge used to carry cattle along the Danube.

The objective was to anchor in Turkey, and from there to await certificates for Palestine. The small, unseaworthy ship sailed for three days, just making it to Istanbul before the engine died.

The Turkish authorities prevented the disembarkation of the passengers for fear that the British would not give them certificates and Turkey would be forced to give them refuge. The ship remained in Istanbul for 70 days. The British refused to grant permission for them to enter Palestine and the Turks would not let them repair the engine, disembark or remain in Turkey. The only food and water available for the passengers was provided by the local Jewish community.

Despite the despairing appeals of the captain that the ship was unable to continue on its way, the Turkish authorities sent the ship back to the Black Sea on February 23, 1942. On the following day a mighty explosion was heard and the ship went down. Much later it was determined the ship had been sunk by a torpedo from a Russian submarine. Only one passenger, David Stoliar, survived and eventually reached Palestine. Among the dead were 103 children.

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/struma.html

[Fargin]

Yea,

UK had IRA

like Spain had ETA

like germany had RAF

like France had algerian bombings

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

1) Britain did send Jews BACK to germany during ww2, thats a historical fact.
If its a historical fact then it should be in some published work somewhere.

2) The British army had "Jewish" unit who faought along with it against the Nazis - in the deserts of Africa and as paratroopers in Europe
Yes this true.

3) The Arabs DID NOT have such units
Muslims were part of the British armed forces though not in great numbers I believe some of the regiments in India were comprised of a good number of Muslims.

4) The Arabs DID how ever, collaborated with the Nazis (their leader even met Hitler)
True but did he represent all Arabs. What is interesting is that Stern made overtures to the Axis powers in September 1940 he was in dialogue with an emissary from Il Duce in Jerusalem Stern was a fanatic and would have done anything to hider the British in their war efforts he actually hoped that due to their efforts elsewhere we would throw in the towel so to speak and leave.

5) Jewish terror was NOTHING like the terror Israel is facing today:
a) The attacks were NOT aimed against British citizens (unless you know about school buses in London which were blown up by Jews)
b) Almost every attack was pre-notified by the attackers. (king david hotel attack was a huge mess - but the message was sent a few minutes before the explosion)
We could be splitting hairs here so you believe that the IDF are fair game but Israeli civilians are not. Some on this site would argue that terror is terror in any shape or form.

6) The British government avioded the vote for the Jewish state
Yes this true they really had their head up their arses at times during the Palestinain debacle, you can be thankfull for this they really could have went up a gear or two and put a stop to any notion of a Jewish homeland.

7) The British government (some parts of it) are fully supporting the Palestinians and their crazy attacks (certian foreign minister?)
I don't know much about this one.

8) I still love scotch Whiskey, Irish Guiness and British redheads
Good were still mates then. :P

[citizen-k]

One correction to your response:

I didn't say "Muslims" - I said Arabs, there are no Arabs in India...

When speaking of Muslims in Europe the meaning is usually Arab-Muslims... the problem is not with Islam itself but with Arab nationality & Islamic Jihad characterising it.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

One correction to your response:

I didn't say "Muslims" - I said Arabs, there are no Arabs in India...

When speaking of Muslims in Europe the meaning is usually Arab-Muslims... the problem is not with Islam itself but with Arab nationality & Islamic Jihad characterising it.
Fair enough k my mis-quote, but the Arabs were very useful to us in WW1 as their harrassment of the Turks did contribute the the down fall of the Turkish Ottoman empire which did sort of lead towards the formation of Israel or a least help clear the way for it, I can imagine that if that empire was left intact then there would have been no way that a state would have been formed.

[ariweiner]

HAMAS's rhetoric always said that whole of "geographical palestine" is "occupied territory" and every Israeli citizen is a "soldier" and a "settler".
Hello, a little note: isn't this true? Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were originally living in what is now "Israel." They fled as refugees into Gaza, the West Bank, Jordan, Syria etc after various massacres by the Irgun and Stern gang and the Haganah. According to International Law, these refugees HAVE THE RIGHT to return to their homes. This is what Hamas is campaigning for albeit in an extreme manner since there is no political solution and every UN resolution on the issue is vetoed by the US


BTW, that's a picture of Hizbullah terrorists.
Create all the fallacious analogies that you want to between Hezbollah and Nazi Germany, the truth is apparent. It is very obvious to anyone with a bit of sense that this salute is not unique to the Nazi's. Try here (http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/salute2.jpg) for an example.


And in terms of Osama bin Laden...

when he was asked would his "jihad" stop if all the conditions were met, he said "NO" even before 1998.
What is the source for this?


Glance at the Hierarchy of Power in Iran

Jews barred in Saudi tourist drive

any questions?
No just a couple of comments. Firstly, Iran is a Shi'i country. The Shi'a believe in the infallibility of select Imams which the vast majority of Muslims do not believe and most certainly Usama bin Laden and Shaikh Ahmed Yassin do not believe this.

Secondly, people of the Jewish tradition being barred from Saudi makes perfect sense(as a form of protest) considering the injustices that are being perpetrated against the Palestinian people.


RE: What I mean by 'Islamo-fascism'
The article bases it's whole premise on Yossef Bodansky's book. But why if such information was available did the Bush Administration not use it for their case against Iraq? And why have many government departments stated that there seems to be no connection between Al-Qaida and Iraq.

[ExtraT]

HAMAS's rhetoric always said that whole of "geographical palestine" is "occupied territory" and every Israeli citizen is a "soldier" and a "settler".
Hello, a little note: isn't this true?

Well, as I said, if you believe it's true and HAMAS is an enlightened freedom-fighting organization, then go join it and put on a suicide bomber's belt. I'll even reserve you a special cage in The Local Zoo - you'll hold the proud title "Honorary Suicide Bomber of The Local Zoo" :)

Just stop flooding this board with your Islamo-fascist propaganda.

[RavenW]

Secondly, people of the Jewish tradition being barred from Saudi makes perfect sense


STOP!

ariweiner, are you saing that you justify ("make perrfect sense") the discrimination based on ethnic origin. So for example, if Germany had a war with Congo, it would be perfectly all right to discriminate and ban "people of African" tradition or saying it plain "ban the blacks from entering the country".

Is that what you imply?

And not like it is actually true, but if "Israel would ban people of Arab descent from entering the country", then it's somehow makes it "OKey" to "ban Jews and people of Jewish descent everywhere for entering some Arab nation somewhere in Persian Gulf region".

Enough said.

After I posted an article describing new anti-semitic twist in Saudi Arabia (which by the way was universally condemed by civilized nations as pure Nazi-style 1930s Europe anti-semitism).

I find that there is a person, who think there is nothing wrong with baning and discriminating people based on their skin color, religion or even simple "descent" (as he put it "people of Jewish tradition").

I think that anyone that supports anti-Jew laws or anti-Negro lwas anywhere is just a sick bastard.

Therefore,

1. I think any discussion with person who supports racist policy against Jews is pointless.

2. Discrimination of people based on the color of their skin is called RACISM, discrimination of people base on their ethnic ancestry is called anti-Semitism.

Both forms represent evil, and anyone who supports it deserve condemnation.

3. I publicly call moderators to ban this person from the forum based on his remarks in which he supports the anti-semitic campaign of Middle Eastern governments and justifies "No Jews" law of Nazi like states.

4. I publicly call all the people of this forum to ignore and boycot this individual, not because he is not entitled to the Freedom of Speech and Press, but because he incites, encourages ethnical hatred and spreads anti-Jewish and racists remarks.

5. In all my post I always underline the strong and serious believe that all people should be treated equally since nationality is not important.

whether you German, French, Romanian, Chinese or a Jew it's NOT nationality that makes you a great person, but the content of your character.

I also always emphasize that while we can critisize/like/dislike policies of particular countries (e.g. Germany, France, Israel, America), we should always refer from the nationalistic anti-enthnic rhetoric like: "damn Judes", "damn ******s", "damn Arabs", "damn Americans".

While it's ok to say "damn Palestinian terrorist", it is uterly wrong to say "damn Palestinian Arabs".



I personally condemn in the strongest terms this particular individual for his anti-Semitic remarks and break off any forum relationships with him.
I also encourage any other forum member wether he is Jew or non-Jew to do the same.

P.s. On a personal note, anyone who says it's okey to ban and discriminate a particular ethnic group (because they are Jews or they are Blacks or Arabs), and who tries to justify such disrimination is just a pig.

There, I said it.

[UkrainianAmerican]

Re: RavenW
If not for you post i wouldnt even know about it for its been sometime since I read ariweiners posts. :D
The fact that he treats Kavkaz-center as Gospel is more then enough for me :)

[ExtraT]

****, and I was just building a new "suicide bomber" cage for this character. I guess he'll have to go in the same cage with the rest of the nazis.

[RavenW]

Expats in Saudi: Behind the veil

The kingdom of Saudi Arabia has suffered months of turmoil, with increasingly daring attacks by militants and growing fears of instability in the nation.

In the second of an occasional series about the experiences of expatriate workers, US citizen "Jayne" writes about hiding behind traditional women's clothes, constant vigilance, and unheard-of poverty among ordinary Saudis.


I have worked in Riyadh for several years.

In the past, Saudi Arabia was a quiet, safe and pleasant place to live, but that has changed recently.

Most Western women here are battling fear and anxiety.

Those of us who chose to stay did so in the hope that the situation may improve.

For the first time since coming to the kingdom, I see Western women hiding behind the veil, Saudi-style, when out in public.

It's quite startling, actually, to pass a veiled lady in the aisle at the grocery store and to hear an American voice coming from behind the veil.

It reflects the fact that women fear for their own safety in a way they never have before.

Locals' horror

Women are being advised to avoid going out alone, since that marks them as Western.


If all the Westerners leave, who will finish training these young people? How will they obtain the skills they need to earn a living?

They limit their shopping trips. When couples go out shopping, they try to leave their cars in a secure location to prevent sabotage.
Some couples have stopped using their own vehicles and use taxis instead.

We all feel increased paranoia and we are vigilant about the possibility of being followed. Most of us carry mobile phones in case of emergency.

There is another big worry. A mass exodus of Westerners will adversely affect Saudi society, because at present thousands of young Saudis are receiving on-the-job training from Westerners in a massive push toward complete "Saudisation" of the workforce.

If all the Westerners leave, who will finish training these young people?

How will they obtain the skills they need to earn a living?

I find Saudis as a group to be kind, polite, gracious, hospitable people and fairly moderate in their views.

Most are horrified by the activities of the extremists.

More than one Muslim has told me: "Our Koran does not teach us to kill innocent people!"

Wounded pride

Recently, I was walking down Olaya Street with my husband and we were accosted by a young Saudi man brandishing a small framed picture for sale.


Things were never like this before and it breaks my heart... Why is there growing poverty in one of the richest countries in the world?

"Please, I have five sisters, my poor old father is sick and needs medicine, help me," he said.
We helped him.

On the same street later, a teenaged boy: "Please, I have not eaten today, only give me money to buy water."

We gave him the equivalent of two pounds sterling.

At the junction of Dammam and Dabbab Roads in Riyadh, I was surprised to see a Saudi man selling bottled water to passing drivers.

In the past, this humble work was always done by Africans.

I bought a bottle of water, I overpaid him and waved away the change and he scowled, his pride wounded at having to accept charity.

Later, in the foyer of a large grocery store frequented by Westerners, I saw a bearded man in Bedouin dress sitting on the floor peddling wooden twigs of the type traditionally used for oral hygiene.

Most of his customers gave him much more than the price he asked for his merchandise, realising he was desperate to feed his family.

Things were never like this before and it breaks my heart.

Why is there growing poverty in one of the richest countries in the world?



Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/middle_east/3805471.stm

Published: 2004/06/14 16:37:13 GMT

© BBC MMIV

[RavenW]

Glance at the Hierarchy of Power in Iran
By The Associated Press
A look at the leadership structure and powers in Iran.

Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei: The ultimate decision-maker on all major state and religious matters. He appoints all key positions in the ruling theocracy and controls judiciary and Revolutionary Guards. Supporters believe he is incapable of error and answerable only to God.
___
Guardian Council: Vets all candidates for parliament, president and other elected posts. Power to veto any legislation. Comprised of six Islamic clerics and six legal scholars hand-picked by Khamenei.
___
Expediency Council: A 32-member unelected group dominated by conservatives and led by former President Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani. Mediates in disputes between Guardian Council and parliament. Advises supreme leader.
___
Expert Assembly: A group of 87 Islamic clerics. Constitution says it oversees supreme leader, but actual role is unclear.
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President Mohammad Khatami (news - web sites): Highest elected leader. Leads most aspects of government, but important decisions need backing of supreme leader. Khatami's second and final term expires in 2005.
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Parliament: Structured as Western-style legislative branch, but all key measures by 290-seat chamber must have the backing of supreme leader. Main powers in setting budget and other fiscal matters. Lawmakers have four-year terms.





Pro-Qaida site lists Israelis, Jews as top human targets
By *******

DUBAI - A strategy paper posted on a Web site sympathetic to Al-Qaida lists Jews, Americans and Britons as main targets, and calls on militant cells worldwide to "turn the infidels' lands into hell."
The document, describing targets militants should hit, portrays itself as "diplomacy written in blood, decorated with body parts and perfumed with gunpowder."

It was in the latest issue of a guerrilla warfare manual posted on Web sites that covers subjects ranging from ideology to weapons handling.

The document, entitled al-Battar (Sword) Camp, could not be independently authenticated but its tone and content resembled earlier such manuals on Islamic militant sites.

"The lands of the infidels should be turned into hell because they have turned the Muslims' countries into hell... Therefore cells active globally should not set themselves any geographical limits," it said.

It said U.S. and Israeli Jews, followed by French and British Jews were top human targets. Chief targets among Christians were Americans and Britons, followed by Spaniards, Australians, Canadians and Italians.

Professions singled out included businessmen, diplomats, scholars, scientists and military leaders as well as tourists.

It said Jewish and Christian investments in Islamic states, multinational corporations and international economic experts were top economic targets.

Entitled "Targets Inside Cities," the strategy paper was signed by Abdulaziz al-Muqrin, whom Western intelligence agencies consider the leading Al-Qaida propagandist and financier in Saudi Arabia.

Islamic militants often denounce the U.S.-led "war on terror" as a campaign aimed against Islam.

Muqrin, one of Saudi Arabia's most wanted militants, was reported last month to have taken over leadership of Al-Qaida in the kingdom after the killing of the former top operative Khaled Ali Ali Haj in a police shootout.

"The whole European economy suffered from the blessed Madrid strikes, which doubled as a blow against the governments of the crusaders, the Jews and the godless," the document said.

"Strikes on oil wells and pipelines in Iraq may lead to the withdrawal of foreign companies or at least destroy the security and stability needed by them to plunder the wealth of Muslims," the document said.

It said religious sites should not be targeted, except those of Christian missionaries in Muslim countries and those spying under the guise of religion and top religious figures acting against Islam.

A commentary in the document said Israel's assassination of Hamas spiritual leader Ahmed Yassin 10 days ago had become "fuel for the Jihad movement, feeding and nourishing it and inciting youth to this path."

[RavenW]

Iraqis wrestle with Jewish factor
By Nir Rosen
Nov 26, 2003

BAGHDAD - When Imam Mahdi al-Jumeili of the small Hudheifa mosque in Baghdad's Shurti neighborhood met three American officers to resolve a dispute over soldiers entering the grounds of his mosque, his first question to them was "are any of you Jews"? When he was satisfied that none were, he allowed the meeting to proceed. Prior to the arrival of the Americans, he made his prejudices about them clear: "We are sure they came here to steal the country and protect Israel," he said, adding that "Judaism and Masonism are at war with Islam".

These views are common in Iraq, where references to "al-Yahud", or "the Jews", are made everywhere and they demonstrate the degree to which the outside world is misunderstood and feared by Iraqis whose views were shaped by years of authoritarianism, control and fear, with little access to information not dictated by Ba'athist or religious sources.

And the prejudices appear to still flourish. For a journalist, not a day goes by without mention of Jews and Israel. Even taxi drivers talk about the Jews when they grumble about the occupation. "We are Muslims!" one declared proudly during an evening ride to a hotel, "and Jews come to our land?" When asked who he was referring to, he said, "They are all Jews. The Americans are all Jews and mercenaries. We know their religion." When asked if he wanted a Sunni or Shi'ite leader in Iraq, this driver said. "We are all Muslims, it makes no difference. Only the Jews want to separate Sunnis and Shi'ites, they are non-believers."

Another taxi driver explained that "America and the Jews are one. We know this from their interests, their relationships and America's defense of the Jews. They don't give rights to Arabs, only Jews. America and Jews are the same because they have the same goals and the same faith." A third taxi driver explained that the Jordanian embassy was bombed because Jordan was organizing the migration of Jews into Iraq.

In the market of Abu Ghraib, a town west of Baghdad, when asked about the Americans, one angry man replied: "Saddam was better. At least he was a Muslim. Isn't that better than Jews?" When pressed on the issue, he explained that "the Americans are Jews, their work is Jewish. Nobody accepts them". The prayer leader of Abu Ghraib's local mosque agreed. "They are all Jews and Christians, these occupiers," he said.

Signs on the walls of the Abu Hanifa mosque warn Iraqis that Jews have come to the Ekal Hotel and they plan to purchase land, just as they did in Palestine, to drive Iraqis out of their country. "Do not stab your fellow Iraqis in the heart" by selling land to the Jews, exhorts the sign. A visit to the Ekal Hotel proves that it is closed for renovations and has no guests. The same signs warning of Jewish real estate agents invading Iraq are distributed by university students.

On the walls of the mosque in Maalef, a Shi'ite slum in Baghdad, large spray-painted graffiti says, "Kill the Jews". In Baghdad's Mansour district, at the Rahman mosque, faithful Shi'ites heard Sheikh Ali al-Ibrahimi condemn a recent decision by the Iraqi Governing Council to permit certain non-Iraqi citizens to obtain Iraqi citizenship. Ibrahimi warned that "if Jews reside in Iraq then they will become Iraqi citizens and they will own Iraq and we will be their guests". He explained that the founders of the US initially feared letting the "owners of money" enter the country, but that "this happened when the Jews came. The Americans and others became their guests".

In the large slums of Sadr City, Seyid Hasan Naji al-Musawi, the leader of the Muhsin mosque in this Shi'ite neighborhood declared that the Mahdi, Islam's version of the Messiah, "will be coming soon and when he comes he will kill the Jewish leadership", which he equated with the Americans, adding that Julius Caesar was Jewish, and the Jews were the Romans. Al-Musawi quoted a verse from the Koran prognosticating the eventual defeat of the Jews.

A common belief in Iraq and the Arab world in general is that when held to a mirror and reversed, the Coca-Cola logo says "No Mecca No Mohammed". This is attributed to the alleged Jewish ownership of Coca-Cola. It is said that all night long trucks smuggle Iraqi oil through Jordan into Israel. And the rumors continue ad nauseam. The fact that the Old Testament contains references to Jewish hegemony over the lands between the Nile and the Euphrates does little to ease concerns.

Works purporting to be scholarly are available in every book market, elaborating on themes of the Jewish threat. The ubiquitous Protocols of the Elders of Zion detailing a Jewish plot to rule the world, long proven in the West to be a fabrication written at the behest of a Russian czar, is sold in Arabic. Volume one and volume two. Another book called The Crimes of the Jews is on display on Baghdad streets alongside a book about Drugs and the Sons of the Devil. On further reading, the book reveals that the Jews are the "sons of the devil" the title refers to. A book in Kurdish is also available, its cover bearing a Star of David, and inside it a monster with blood dripping down its fangs. The book is called In the Jaws of the Jews.

The Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, a member of the US-appointed Iraqi Governing Council, sells a book called Jewish Nights, refuting various Jewish claims about their history, and in Najaf, the office of the cleric Seyid Muqtada Sadr sells a book called Ali and the Jews,detailing Ali's conversion of Jews to Islam.

Iraqis are clearly very concerned about Jews. Islam is traditionally ambivalent to the Jews, condemning them often in the Koran but mandating a modus vivendi with them at the same time, relegating them to an inferior and protected status called dhimi. Hostility between different religions is a normal phenomenon, resulting from their competition for the same market of believers and their inherent belief that their religion purveys the truth and therefore the others are necessarily false.

As the oldest of the three monotheisms, Judaism was viewed with derision by the other two for its rejection of their newer prophets. In the Christian West, this led to anti-Semitism, the belief that Jews are a race or nation to be disparaged. Judaism was a stain that could not be removed by mere conversion. Martin Luther lamented the existence of Jews whom he viewed as a "damned, rejected race". In Islam, with its explicit rejection of races, it led only to anti-Judaism, the belief that the Jewish religion was the problem and if individual Jews became Muslims and recognized Mohammed, then they were no longer Jews and these individuals would be treated just like any other Muslim.

With the creation of Israel, the Jewish state, and with its successful defeat and occupation of Arabs and Muslims, as well as its oppression of occupied populations, Jews became a threat rather than an anachronistic and vestigial relic. Arab and Muslim authors incorporated European racist and anti-Semitic theories about Jewish conspiracy theories to explain the existence and strength of Israel, as well as its influence over American policy. While the Koran is a vast book with statements that can lead to variegated interpretations, those seeking them can find many verses in the Koran to give these theories religious blessing and validity.

"Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and pagans" instructs the Koran in 5:85, implying that Jews and pagans are of equal stature and that Jews are the enemies of Muslims, leading to the conclusion that they are therefore God's enemies as well since they are the enemies of those who believe in him. In 2:97-8 God declares that he is the enemy of whoever is the enemy of the Angel Gabriel. And this is generally interpreted to refer to the Jews.

The Koran, the Old Testament and the New Testament are all quoted to prove the treachery of the Jews. The Jewish worship of the golden calf after God had made a covenant with them (2:92-3) and their recurring violations of pacts made with the Prophet Mohammed (8:56-8) prove that Jews are not to be trusted. In 2:96 Jews are unfavorably compared with idolaters. "Of all people the most greedy for life - even more than the idolaters" are the Jews. In Verse 88 of "the Cow" chapter, the Koran describes Jews as follows: "They say our hearts are the wrappings (that keep God's words) nay God's curse is on them for their blasphemy. Little is it they believe." Verse 2 of this chapter asks "is it not that every time they make a covenant, some party among them throw it aside?" In 2:58 the Koran attributes punishments wrought on the Jews for their blasphemy: "and abasement and poverty were pitched on them, and they were laden with God's wrath; that because they had disbelieved the signs of God and slain prophets unrightfully; that because they disobeyed, and were transgressors".

Jews are viewed as unbelievers, disobedient and treacherous, rejecting God and his messengers. In 2:87 the God states "and we gave Moses the book and followed him up with a succession of messengers; we gave Jesus the son of Mary clear signs and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you a messenger with what you yourselves desire not, you are puffed up with pride? Some you called imposters and others you slew." In 4:157 it is stated that "they boasted 'we killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the messenger of God'." In verse 58 of "the Table" chapter the Koran states that God himself has cursed the Jews. Verse 86 of that chapter implies that Jews "shall be the companions of hell fire". Verses 79 and 80 describe the "evil" works and deeds of Jews. Verse 51 of the chapter "women" accuses Jews of believing in evil.

In 5:66, God scolds the Jews for not obeying their Torah and therefore rejecting both Jesus and Mohammed. Verse 56 of "the Spoils" chapter describes how Mohammed fought and defeated the Jews at the battle of Khaybar. In 5:78 both David and Jesus curse the Jews for "disobedience" and "excesses".

Thus the basis exists, for those who choose to use it, to promote the hostility and palpable fear of Jews that confront journalists in Iraq on a daily basis. The many Iraqis who now have access to satellite television can also watch a Syrian Ramadan series aired on the Lebanese Hezbollah-owned channel "Al-Manar" that provides a tendentious version of recent Jewish history. "Al-Shatat" or "the Diaspora", as the series is called, tells the story of Zionism from 1812 until the establishment of Israel. The series contains familiar themes of Jewish plots to dominate the world. The first episode began with a description of a 2,000-year-old Jewish creation of a world government and attempts by Jews to provoke wars among non-Jews. Subsequently, Jews are shown plotting to kill non-Jews, dominate various countries, oppose other religions, and incite Germany to enter a succession of wars. Actors play famous Jewish figures, such as the wealthy Rothschild dynasty, the founder of Zionism Theodore Herzl and the falsely-accused Alfred Dreyfuss. Jews are shown committing brutal acts of murder and dismemberment against non-Jews and Jews who betrayed the race. Such a program is consistent with a wide body of literature produced in the Arab world, including recent Iraqi newspaper articles.

After the war, with the flowering of new Iraqi publications, newspaper articles contained numerous Jewish themes, helping to spread the panic that Jews were indeed invading the country. The independent Iraqi daily al-Yawm al-Aakher reported, that "the frantic campaign to resettle the Jews [in Iraq] has aroused the annoyance of Iraqis, particularly the clerics". Al-Adala, a newspaper published by the Supreme Council of the Islamic Revolution, warned that "a number of Jews are attempting to purchase factories in Baghdad". The article went on to describe an eyewitness who observed Jews purchasing factories. In fact it seems nearly everyone in Baghdad has a friend or relative who was an eyewitness to Jews buying land.
An editorial in al-Rassed also warned that Jews were attempting to purchase land as a result of the occupation. Dar al-Salam, a newspaper owned by the Iraqi Islamic Party, reported that Mosul's association of clerics issued an edict prohibiting the sale of land to non-Iraqis because it may end up in the hands of Jews. Meanwhile, al-Sa'ah warned Iraqis to check Taiwanese and Chinese-made appliances for concealed Stars of David because the Israelis would be surreptitiously selling their products in Iraq.

Another rumor going around is that Michel Aflaq, the now-hated founder of the Ba'ath Party, was a secret Jew who had converted to Christianity. It is also rumored that in Israel, Jewish brothels are built to look like mosques, even with the minaret, or tower. Shi'ites believe that a final battle between Jews and Muslims will occur when the Jews come to the city of Kifil on the Euphrates to visit the tomb of an alleged Jewish prophet. Here Muslims and Jews will fight, and the Jews will hide behind rocks, which will speak and say "there is a Jew behind me", and the Muslims will be victorious.

(Copyright 2003 Asia Times Online Co, Ltd. All rights reserved. Please contact content@atimes.com for information on our sales and syndication policies.)




Jews barred in Saudi tourist drive

Saudi Arabia is barring visits by Jews after launching a new visa scheme to try to attract more tourists.

The Saudi tourism department website said tourist visas would not be issued to Israeli passport holders or Jews.
Earlier this month, it began a drive to attract more foreign visitors by issuing visas to non-Muslim tourists for the first time.
It has traditionally only issued visas for work purposes, officially-approved visits and pilgrimage to Mecca.
There has not previously been an explicit ban on Jews travelling to Saudi Arabia, though people with Israeli passports or with Israeli stamps in their documents, have not been allowed in.

Move condemned

A page on the Supreme Commission for Tourism website originally said visas would not be issued to Israeli passport holders or those with a passport containing an Israeli stamp; "those who don't abide by the Saudi traditions concerning appearance and behaviours"; "those under the influence of alcohol"; or "Jewish people".
Visas will not be issued for... Jewish people Supreme Commission for Tourism website
The page was later amended, removing details of the restrictions.
US Congressman Anthony Weiner denounced the prohibition against Jews and called on the US government to take action.
"It is very difficult to see the Saudis as anything other than a backward country with backward ideals and this reaffirms that," Mr Weiner said.
"I think the administration should take a hard look at this website and decide whether a country that has these policies should be considered our ally."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3493448.stm

[5jumpchump]

Islamo-fascism [definition] - a political ideology based on the supremacy of one religion over the others and the will to enforce this particular religion on the rest of mankind."
Prominent Islamo-fascists: Ayatolla Homeini, Osama bin Laden, Sheikh Yassin. It is interesting to note that none of the three mentioned fit the definition of "Islamofascist" that you cite.

"The call to wage war against America was made because America has spear-headed the crusade against the Islamic nation, sending tens of thousands of its troops to the land of the two Holy Mosques over and above its meddling in its affairs and its politics, and its support of the oppressive, corrupt and tyrannical regime that is in control." - Usama bin Laden (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/interview.html)



"Our main battle has always been against Israeli soldiers and Jewish settlers. The attacks inside Israel are operations we carry out in response to Israeli crimes against our people. They are not the strategy of our movement. Our strategy is to defend ourselves against an occupying army and against settlers and settlements." - Shaikh Ahmed Yassin (http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/node.php?id=1224)


Please dude by all means get the fauck out of my lovely country and spread you religi.... cult **** elsewhere . Start today :bash:

[Pooga]

I think Weiner has contracted a rare form of the Oo-I-Want-to-be-on-the-Badguy's-Side-Because-Everybody-Else-Isn't Syndrome.

Or the Gosh-I'm-So-Stupid-Look-at-Me-Go-Wooh-Watch-This-Dang-That-Was-Cool-Breakdancing Syndrome.

[UoUo]

Why the **** the USA let people like ariweiner live there??????????


****....

And like the other people said here ariweiner...if you are so holy brave islamic man...come here and fight with us...

Just come next year..when i will join the army.