Patriot Ordnance Factory P-308:Any Thoughts????

[substance]

I've been shopping around for a semi-auto .308 and I've been leaning toward a Springfield Loaded M1A until a friend read an article in G&W for LE about Patriot Ordnance Factory. I've copied the specs but I was curious if anyone had any hands-on experience with one of their weapon systems.


Barrel:
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif 20" Heavy contour, Fluted to reduce weight and heat
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif 4150 Mil-B-1159F Vanadium Alloy (machinegun rated)
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif 70 Rockwell case hardened heat treated "5R" polygonal barrels are 2X harder then Mil-Spec & Hammer Forged barrels
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif Corrosion resistant and 10 times thicker and hardness than mil-spec chromed lining
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif "5R" Polygonal Rifled barrels from Rock Creek Barrels, Inc.
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif BC-A5 Muzzle Device
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif Chamber: 7.62X51 mm NATO (.308 Cal.)

Method of Operation:
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif Gas Piston operated, rotating bolt (short stroke system)
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif Reversible piston / gas trap design (two modes of fire)
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif C.R.O.S. (Corrosion Resistant Operating System):
Chrome plated: Barrel, Gas Block/Tube (billet machined), Gas Plug (billet machined), Gas Piston (billet machined), Bolt Carrier Assembly (one piece billet machined), Silicone Nickel plated A3 Flattop Upper Receiver and Charging Handle.
OUR GAS PISTON WEAPON SYSTEMS REQUIRING NO LUBE!

Bolt & Carrier:
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif Chrome plated 8620 Integral Keyed, Steel Bolt Carrier (billet machined), heat treated / plated per Mil Spec.
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif Chrome plated Bolt, heat treated, to Mil-spec

Weight:
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif Empty – Lbs
Sights:
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif Fixed Removable FTA-2005 Hooded, Snag Free Front Site Assemble
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif Troy flip up rear site (optional)

Upper Receiver:
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif A3 Flattop, Billet Machined 7075-T6 aircraft aluminum alloy
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif Silicone Nickel & Black Hard coat Anodized per Mil Spec and Teflon coated black, & Charging Handle

Lower Receiver:
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif P-308, Billet Machined 7075-T6 aircraft aluminum alloy, w/Integral Oversized Trigger Guard
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif AMBI-BOLT Release Lever Machined Into The Lower Receiver
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif Hard coat anodized per Mil Spec and Teflon coated black
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif Timney MFG. Drop-In 4 Lbs Single Stage Trigger Group
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif ERGO Pistol Grip
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif VLTOR "EMOD" 6 Position Retractable Buttstock w/Mil-spec tube

Handguards:
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif Ergo ladder rail covers
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif POF-USA: MODULAR RAILED RECEIVER (MRR), Tactical Rail system

POF-USA Specifications:
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif All raw materials are manufactured from US Steel Mills.
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif All heat treats, plating/coatings, are completed by U.S.A. owned and operated manufacturers.
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif All accessory and component parts on our weapons systems are from U.S.A. owned and operated manufacturers.
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif All of our weapon systems are 100% pure American made.http://www.pof-usa.com/p308/P30820D.jpg

[Jameten]

Me Like!, Me Want!:grin::grin::grin:

[JVeld]

Is a great rifle, my brother own that exact one from the photo, I have the smaller 5.56 one......they are very good, reliable and accurate.

[Jurpula]

Looks expensivehttp://img241.imageshack.us/img241/5973/iconyesyd0.gif

[ABNINF]

That it definately is

[Biglug]

Being a former POF 5.56 owner I know they can make a very nice rifle.
I haven't had the opportunity to shoot one yet, but I don't doubt for a second the .308's are sweet.
If I didn't like the M14 platform so much I would have considered buying one, but the M14 is an amazing rifle platform that has come jumps ahead from what it was back when the M14 was first issued to troops.

You've got Sage stocks, Troy MCS's, JAE-100's and a lots of various other choices beyond just the standard usgi wood that was mainly used back than.
The Sage's, MCS and JAE-100 take bedding out of the equation and so does a simple and still fairly cheap to buy, usgi fiberglass.
You've also got DC Vortex flash suppressors and hooded GLFS, railed handguards, and titanium and steel receiver mounts. With some basic accuracy work like tuning the trigger, unitizing the gas system, refining and fitting parts if needed and putting it in a tight lockup stock they can be extremely accurate, while highly reliable.
AR's are nice and I'm sure the POF .308 is, but I honestly prefer a hardened steel receiver to an aluminum one too.

Buy the one you like best though and think would serve your needs better.
Both are going to be very easy to care for, but there will be more involved in making the M14/M1A into what you want if you want a high level of accuracy, optics and bipod mounting if you start with a rack grade commercial M14/M1A compared to how a POF .308 will come out of the box with it's full length top rail and side and lower rails on the free float POF monolithic system.

For an iron sight, general use rifle I'd take a Scout M1A in a usgi fiberglass hands down.

[SMGLee]

If yopu are lookign for a general purpose battle rifle, nothing out there can beat a FN FAL at the monent....until the SCAR delivers.. that statement will quickly cange.

if you want a precision 308, you can look to the POF or the DPMS. of course the KAC, but that is in another price level... or maybe fifty levels above.


I simply like the DPMS becaus there is less crap hanging out by the barrel which leave the barrel much more free floating and free of any annoying vibrations.

If you can wait, wait for the FNSCAR/CAR-H. you won't regret it.

[Waterman]

If I had the free $$$$ I would grab one up in a heartbeat........

[wildcat]

I have heard a lot of reports of problems with the pistons breaking, including POF, I still waiting to find out more, personally, until there is a good solution, I will just stick with the old system. I have a DPMS LR-308T and an FAL, both are great weapons, My FN is a full battle rifle while my DPMS is only 16", I paid $900 for the DPMS, that left me $700 for an 3x32 Acog TA-33R-9 scope(take me out to 600m, and with a 16" barrel that is just fine).

My advice is look into what you want the rifle to do, shoot far with a big scope or a more powerful CQ/carbine.

The M1A1 and the FAL are much more heavier than the DPMS. I will be using my for big game hunting in western washington, so a carbine, in the forest is perfect.

Good luck, I love purchasing new firearms. Personally I been eyeing the FN SCAR, looks good, I like the stock, looks like it would be comfutable, and I could get good position memory on it. I also like the idea of this interchangeable feature, and barrel swap out, so you can just swap, barrels and scope, to adatpe the rifle for a different job, quickly.

[Scout223]

how about an armalite ar-10.. they are great...

i have one myself

[Biglug]

I've read more than enough hearsay bashing threads to last a lifetime and this is where the internet is a bad source for truth most of time.
http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=206&t=158305
If you want to know whether a POF is a right for you, than find out more from other owners and directly from POF in their industry forum on ArfCom besides.

People have personal tastes of course and that said I wouldn't buy a DPMS or FAL myself having a enough experience shooting various versions of both to know the hype is just hype on the FAL as it's far from perfect like any rifle with particular ergo's and the DPMS isn't what I would consider a higher quality AR.

Firearms are all preference too, although people like to portray their tastes and what they own as all there is and the best there is. That's pretty illogical to me as no one thing is perfect for everyone. It's the same kind of wisdom as someone saying the way they like their hamburger is what everyone should like. I don't prefer to listen to these kind of opinions myself, but to each his/her own.
I know what fits me isn't necessarily going to fit someone else and that's just the way it is. I've found the M14/M1A the best in function, fit, feel and capability for me, but even though I recommend it as a good rifle, I know it's not for everyone.

I suggest trying any of the choices your looking at as much as possible if you can and think about where you are too and what your going to want out of the rifle long down the road.

Substance, I don't know whether your LEO or military with less restrictions to buy any of these, but I thought AR's and pistol grip weapons were heavily restricted in San Deigo, California anyways. That would pretty much limit you to an M1A/M14 and a 10 round magazine in these choices unless it doesn't apply in your case or your willing to use modded stocks and locked in mags.

Just to touch base on weight real quick too. What's heavy depends on the person and there are always different rifle setups lighter and heavier than others. I don't consider 10lbs a heavy rifle and I wouldn't choose one rifle over another for a difference of a few ounces or a pound when there are more important factors to consider like ergo's, function, quality, expansion, maintenance and overall value to my needs.

Good luck in your choice. Biglug

[wildcat]

I've read more than enough hearsay bashing threads to last a lifetime and this is where the internet is a bad source for truth most of time.
http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=206&t=158305
If you want to know whether a POF is a right for you, than find out more from other owners and directly from POF in their industry forum on ArfCom besides.

People have personal tastes of course and that said I wouldn't buy a DPMS or FAL myself having a enough experience shooting various versions of both to know the hype is just hype on the FAL as it's far from perfect like any rifle with particular ergo's and the DPMS isn't what I would consider a higher quality AR.



Thanks for that link. It good to here story of people using stuff in Iraq and Afgan, it build confidence in a produce for me. I agree it is personal taste. I don't agree with you on the DPMS, they make some of the best AR's and have a great repertation, then again so does POF.

DSarms is using the POF pisten on there AR's and DSarms is a company prided in qualilty.

I want a piston system for my DPMS, but 308 AR piston on the 308, I think the I will wait until I here more.

Good luck in you purchase.

[wildcat]

Here is good report of the POF

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7483&highlight=piston

I think I might be converted to get one.

[Silent Reader]

http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif All heat treats, plating/coatings, are completed by U.S.A. owned and operated manufacturers.
http://www.pof-usa.com/images/red2.gif All accessory and component parts on our weapons systems are from U.S.A. owned and operated manufacturers.i don't want to derail the thread - but aren't these just other words for "Made in China"? :D
just thought the formulation is kind of funny :)

[wildcat]

i don't want to derail the thread - but aren't these just other words for "Made in China"? :D
just thought the formulation is kind of funny :)

All POF are 100% USA made. The owner is a very patriotic person who thought and has made a good system.

[TonyT]

I have both an M1A and a FAL. My friend recently purchased a Rock River LAR which we shot the other day. Here are my thoughts:

M1A:

Great trigger (for a semi-automatic rifle), easy to maintain, good iron sights, poor mounting system (after market), not the easiest rifle to shoot off hand. Accuracy 1 MOA.

FAL Para:

Terrible trigger, easy to maintain, horrible iron sights, poor mounting systems, easier to shoot offhand. Accuracy 2.5 - 3.0 MOA

Rock River:

Good trigger (comparible to AR's), as easy to maintain as AR's, good iron sights, good mounting systems, easy to shoot off hand. Little light for a 7.62. Accuracy 1.5 - 2.5 MOA

[wildcat]

I have both an M1A and a FAL. My friend recently purchased a Rock River LAR which we shot the other day. Here are my thoughts:

M1A:

Great trigger (for a semi-automatic rifle), easy to maintain, good iron sights, poor mounting system (after market), not the easiest rifle to shoot off hand. Accuracy 1 MOA.

FAL Para:

Terrible trigger, easy to maintain, horrible iron sights, poor mounting systems, easier to shoot offhand. Accuracy 2.5 - 3.0 MOA

Rock River:

Good trigger (comparible to AR's), as easy to maintain as AR's, good iron sights, good mounting systems, easy to shoot off hand. Little light for a 7.62. Accuracy 1.5 - 2.5 MOA

Nice rifles

My FAL has different ironsights, they seem a lot better. Mine happens to be a modified SA58, it is a battlerifle.

16 inches is to short for 308, and 20inch to long, my next barrel will be 18". I am replacing my A2 stock with a nice collapsible, thinking magpul, this is on my DPMS.

There are a lot of choices out there, I know that the POF are over $2K, online they list $2400 I know it has a gas piston, I know I can make a nice 308 for less, with all the latest trend features.

DPMS guarantees 1.5 MOA with their 16" LR-308T, I read a lot of guys get sub MOA with longer barrels. With my FAL I know with ironsights I been able to pull 1.5 MOA, these are all at 100 yards, using british L1A1 ammo.

[TonyT]

Not to sound like a pin-head but a lot of writing in here could use either a spell check or the double take. Maybe English is a second language to some who post here? For all others, read what the hell you are writing. Use a period every once in a while.

[wildcat]

Not to sound like a pin-head but a lot of writing in here could use either a spell check or the double take. Maybe English is a second language to some who post here? For all others, read what the hell you are writing. Use a period every once in a while.

sorry my browser was playing up, and not allowing me to put the cursor where I wanted, or move it.

Just an interesting on MOA on the knight Armament SR-25, I read that a lot maintain 1 MOA out to 300 yards, and less 2 MOA out to 1000 yards, but that also has lot to do with the loads.

[substance]

Thanks everyone for the huge amount of input!! Gives me alot to think about. :roll: MOds feel free to lock this up before I get convinced to by both! p-)

[Scout223]

Unless the barrel is bent or the sights or wack, any gun is more accurate than the person shooting it will ever be.

If Joe Shmoe buys a KAC .308 and slaps a leupold mark 4 on it, it doesn't mean they are going to get amazing accuracy.

I would advise you to personally handle any weapon you consider buying and see how it feels to you, that is most important.

[wildcat]

Unless the barrel is bent or the sights or wack, any gun is more accurate than the person shooting it will ever be.

If Joe Shmoe buys a KAC .308 and slaps a leupold mark 4 on it, it doesn't mean they are going to get amazing accuracy.

I would advise you to personally handle any weapon you consider buying and see how it feels to you, that is most important.

Firearm choice is personal, there are POS, but there is also lot of good choices, just pic the one that feels best for you, meets your needs/wants/cash flow. When I got my DPMS, I first held an AR-10, and Bushmasters 308 (the bushmaster had an A2 upper, I wanted a rail) , the DPMS just felt right. I hate buying a firearm in less than 5 minutes, it can take the fun out off the sport of looking.

Good luck, let us know what you get, look forward to see the pictures so I can be jealous.