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ariweiner
06-03-2004, 01:55 AM
Israel Troops Exhibit Tells of Harassment

By GAVIN RABINOWITZ
The Associated Press
Thursday, June 3, 2004; 1:43 AM

TEL AVIV, Israel - The Israeli soldiers speak with embarrassment about throwing stun grenades at Palestinian children for fun, harassing a bride and groom, and standing by as Jewish settlers vandalize Palestinians' property.


Their photos and stark testimonials are the heart of a new exhibit that tells a story of the intertwined and violent lives of the military, Palestinians and Jewish settlers in the West Bank city of Hebron.

After completing their three years of compulsory military service, a group of infantry soldiers decided Israel needed to know about what they call "the crazy reality" of their experiences in Hebron - a city where about 500 settlers live in three enclaves surrounded by 130,000 Palestinians.

The Hebron settlers include some of the most extreme among the 200,000 Israelis in the West Bank and often rampage through the city. The Palestinians of Hebron, who insist that all the settlers must leave, are also known for their extremism, targeting settlers and soldiers in shooting and bombing attacks.

More than 80 soldiers who served in Hebron got together to create the exhibit of photographs and video testimony, called "Breaking the Silence."

Organizers said the idea of the exhibit was both to come to terms with their own actions and to serve as a warning to others.

"It is only now that we realize we did some twisted things," Micha Kurz, 20, told the Maariv daily. "We can't be quiet anymore. We want every soldier to see this and to also talk about it. It must not be allowed to happen."

The soldiers refused to talk to foreign reporters.

In the exhibition, pictures taken by the soldiers while on duty in Hebron cover the walls of a Tel Aviv photography school.

Video plays in two corners of the room of soldiers, their faces blurred and their voices distorted, talking about their experiences and their regrets.

They talk of the gradual change the soldier undergoes, worn down by long hours, tension, and fear. They describe the process in which they stop viewing the Palestinians as humans.

"I was taught that an eight-year-old child and a 90-year-old woman are first and foremost potential terrorists, then Palestinians, Arabs and only at the end - people," Kurz told the Yediot Ahronot daily.

The photographs range from jovial group shots of soldiers taken inside barracks to pictures of detained Palestinian men lying blindfolded on the side of the road, their hands bound.

But mostly they show the way the soldiers view Hebron - through the sights of a gun. In one image, cross-hairs rest on the chest of a Palestinian standing on the roof of his home. Another shows the city through the eery green glow of a night scope.

They also show the effects of tense life in the city on the Palestinians.

In an interview with Israel's Channel 10 TV, 21-year-old Yehuda Shaul, who initiated the exhibit, pointed to a picture of a soldier standing next to four small Palestinian boys.

"It takes a moment to grasp what's going on in this picture, but it's insane," he said. "It's Palestinian children playing at being soldiers, body-searching each other. That's the way they live, that's what they absorb."

The soldiers tell of random violence and humiliation for the Palestinians.

One recounts how a comrade of his threw a stun grenade at Palestinian children "just to relieve the boredom." Another tells of how his commander held up a wedding procession during a curfew, stopping the bride and groom, dressed in their best clothes, by taking away their car keys. He smiled as the bride cried.

A board displays more than 60 sets of car keys. A small sign underneath says "In the West Bank, confiscating car keys is a common form of punishment."

The soldiers' focus is also very much on the complex relationship with the settlers - many of whom are hardline Jewish nationalists.

Many of the pictures show settler graffiti calling for blood and revenge, another says "Palestinians to the gas chambers."

"Hebron is the craziest place, the most paradoxical the most illogical," a former platoon commander who served in Hebron, who identifies himself only as Noam, told Israel Radio.

"The day you arrive, a little Jewish boy comes to bring coffee and thanks you for defending him, and the next day you are patrolling and you see the same boy with a group of other children throwing stones and beating with sticks an old Palestinian," he said.

The soldiers also tell of confrontations with settlers as they try to destroy Palestinian property and seize their homes.

Hebron resident Anat Cohen defended the settlers and their relationship with the soldiers guarding them. However, she noted that Hebron "was a complex place."

Cohen told Israel Radio that this particular group of soldiers was sympathetic to the Palestinians and had even given them military binoculars to spy on the settlers.

Military spokesman Capt. Jacob Dallal said the group was "people who are thinking and are aware of the complex dilemmas of the area in which they serve," and the army respected their rights to free expression.

However, Dallal said it was regrettable that the soldiers only brought up their concerns after their discharge and did not deal with the issues during their time in Hebron.

ExtraT
06-03-2004, 02:16 AM
Aaaaaahhh..... Why is it that every time I read another AP journalistic abortion, I get this nice warm feeling in my chest?
It's nice to see somebody hate you - makes you feel alive.

ariweiner
06-03-2004, 09:03 AM
It's a pity you are unable to respond to the events described in the article which, by the way, are systematic throughout Israeli dealings with Christian and Muslim Palestinians.

W(M)D
06-03-2004, 09:23 AM
Yet another inflammatory article. Where are the articles depicting IDF soldiers assisting civilians or aiding them which does happen? That is not newsworthy enough to be read.

If these soldiers had behaved in such a way, they need to be dealt with by military law and it shows a lack of unit discipline not a systematic campaign of harrassment.

However, the article is written in such a way to make the reader think that this is normal, routine and endemic - which it is not.

FDF_Hemppis
06-03-2004, 09:24 AM
"...and on the weather forecast tonight, we're expecting a ****storm from Israeli forum members..."

*rushes to get popcorn and soda, and sits to watch*

I have this funny feeling in my spine that nothing good will come out of this thread... :|

Fredd00
06-03-2004, 09:30 AM
In the long way Israel will have to allow Palestinians to create an independent state. The sooner the better.

BTW. To all Israel's policy supporters question:

Since the beginning of hostility incoms of tourist trade:

A - increased
B - stayed unchange
C - decreased ;)

I wonder when people in Israel realise that war made them poorer (thanks to the generous financial support from US the state may exist).

Mark_Aspen
06-03-2004, 09:30 AM
I happen to appreciate the message, just not the messenger. To me it demonstrates the vitality of Israeli society, and the liklihood that in the future, these will become reservists who won't say "... just following orders."

Where in your never-ending search for the truth are the AP reports on Palestinians who wonder why they're sending teens to be human bombs. Why aren't you posting about the conscientous Arabs who think the anti-Jewish drivel in Arab textbooks and curriculum is immoral and wrong? You, like most of the left, have an entirely skewed and unbalanced notion of right and wrong.

I don't suppose (I actually know) that any of the Palestinian "Police" services have a photo exhibit of how they treat suspects who don't tow the Arafat line, I'd like to see it.

AirZone
06-03-2004, 09:30 AM
"...and on the weather forecast tonight, we're expecting a ****storm from Israeli forum members..."

*rushes to get popcorn and soda, and sits to watch*

I have this funny feeling in my spine that nothing good will come out of this thread... :| rofl rofl rofl

yeah.. like always :)

UkrainianAmerican
06-03-2004, 09:30 AM
Hebron is a jewish city.
The occupying arabs need to get moving.

AirZone
06-03-2004, 09:36 AM
Hebron is a jewish city.
The occupying arabs need to get moving.
Infact this is pretty much true... it was until the massacre. I think its one of the cities we dont need to give away.

Javehn
06-03-2004, 09:48 AM
I happen to appreciate the message, just not the messenger. To me it demonstrates the vitality of Israeli society, and the liklihood that in the future, these will become reservists who won't say "... just following orders."

Where in your never-ending search for the truth are the AP reports on Palestinians who wonder why they're sending teens to be human bombs. Why aren't you posting about the conscientous Arabs who think the anti-Jewish drivel in Arab textbooks and curriculum is immoral and wrong? You, like most of the left, have an entirely skewed and unbalanced notion of right and wrong.

I don't suppose (I actually know) that any of the Palestinian "Police" services have a photo exhibit of how they treat suspects who don't tow the Arafat line, I'd like to see it.

I agree . Those kind of exhibits will make the diferrence . We will not be the people that will say "I was just following orders" , like it happened in Europe , 60 years ago ...

Hebron is vey very problematic place . I have been there in my millitary duty for only 3 days , and those 3 days made the difference . Who haven't been there , could not understand the soldiers .
The imposibble 8/16 hours shifts , the no sleep hours , you have to stay allert 360 degrees around you ... One house is a jew , and the next to him is of Palestinians ... This is most illogical place in the world . Just like that . Someone who hasn't been there , will not be able to understand and critisize the soldiers .
That city is just not rational . It will eat you allive .

oldsoak
06-03-2004, 10:21 AM
[quote="Mark_Aspen"]I happen to appreciate the message, just not the messenger. To me it demonstrates the vitality of Israeli society, and the liklihood that in the future, these will become reservists who won't say "... just following orders."

- exactly. It might amuse some of our Israeli friends, but I became much more appreciative of Israelis and of Israel thanks to the Israeli left. The fact that there is a viable opposition be it left or right is always a good sign for a country.

Fredd00
06-03-2004, 10:45 AM
Hebron is a jewish city.
The occupying arabs need to get moving.

Yeah, Israel from the Meditteranean to Persian Gulf. Arabs must be resettlet but where to? I've got: to Madagaskar. It's time to create Lebensraum for Jews!
Ein Volk (Jews), ein Reich (Israel), ein Furher (Sharon)!

Shalom!

Javehn
06-03-2004, 10:46 AM
Stop it , please . Don't mention or talk about it like that .

oldsoak
06-03-2004, 11:07 AM
Hebron is a jewish city.
The occupying arabs need to get moving.

Yeah, Israel from the Meditteranean to Persian Gulf. Arabs must be resettlet but where to? I've got: to Madagaskar. It's time to create Lebensraum for Jews!
Ein Volk (Jews), ein Reich (Israel), ein Furher (Sharon)!

Shalom!

I think you got it wrong - If it was in their power the Israelis would not send the Arabs to Madagascar - they would go there themselves - the climate is good, the soil is fertile, the beaches are beautiful and there are no neighbours to worry about.
:)

bayul
06-03-2004, 11:25 AM
Yeah, Israel from the Meditteranean to Persian Gulf. Arabs must be resettlet but where to? I've got: to Madagaskar. It's time to create Lebensraum for Jews!
Ein Volk (Jews), ein Reich (Israel), ein Furher (Sharon)!

Shalom!

seriously man you must be retarted and/or have no conception of the history and issues behind the conflict to say something like that, come back when you have something to say that isn't directly from the mouth (or ass) of Arafat and his bitches

also for the real post - i heard that magavnicks abuse palestinians more than regular kravi people because of what their duties involve, and so forth - any comments ?[/quote]

Fargin
06-03-2004, 11:29 AM
Thanks for the read ariweiner,

Nice to read something in the shades of grey for a change, things tend to get all back'n white around here.

AirZone
06-03-2004, 11:34 AM
Saddly theres no Black and White like people in the world think about the Israel-Palastine conflict..it has many shades of grey thats why many people in Israel have pretty big disagreement about what to do in the territories and about the acts (we have far right, right, middle, left, far left and many minor parties in this big mess) :roll:

W(M)D
06-03-2004, 11:39 AM
also for the real post - i heard that magavnicks abuse palestinians more than regular kravi people because of what their duties involve, and so forth - any comments ?[/quote]

Magavniks are pretty tough and no-nonsense. This especially applies to the non-Jewish elements serving within it's ranks.
The few servicemen abusing their position are an extremely small proportion of the overall Magav unit size (but still it does stop the big wide world by 'tarring everyone with the same brush').
Magav have a tough mission to perform where they never wholly operate on a world of black and white scenarios.

bayul
06-03-2004, 11:44 AM
thats pretty true, plus they always have to be on their toes if they are in the shtachim or elsewhere - but it must be pretty sweet for those who get to patrol downtown J'lem while everyone is partying :D

W(M)D
06-03-2004, 11:45 AM
but it must be pretty sweet for those who get to patrol downtown J'lem while everyone is partying :D

Are thos magavnikim the 'jobnikim' of their unit or are they on 'tzchupar'?

The IDF has far too many jobnikim

bayul
06-03-2004, 12:00 PM
i don't know how it works in a magav yechida regarding what a jobnick would do - but if you had the option of being in the shtachim or in a city I wonder what option most would take? there must be some kind of rotation or something along those lines...

W(M)D
06-03-2004, 12:04 PM
Rotation used to be: Kav/Imun/Kav

If you were a bad boy or served in Golani it was Kav/Imun/Keleh/Kav

Now rotation for kravi units is Kav/Kav/Kav

bayul
06-03-2004, 12:07 PM
haha or served in golani...good one
i geuss with the new rotation the only way to get a break is to go on a course or something like that

AirZone
06-03-2004, 12:32 PM
And people wonder why we have "shika"....all the time kav =\

Javehn
06-03-2004, 12:34 PM
And all the people in here have no idea what you are talking about :lol: ;) .

2 pictures from the exhibittion :

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040601/capt.jrl11606011959.mideast_israel_palestinians_jrl116.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040601/capt.jrl11506012001.mideast_israel_palestinians_jrl115.jpg

Mr Gently Benevolent
06-03-2004, 12:37 PM
And all the people in here have no idea what you are talking about :lol: ;)
Working on the subject already. p-)

bayul
06-03-2004, 12:44 PM
And all the people in here have no idea what you are talking about .

haha oops
and is that the aquila in the bottom right pictures of both pictures?[/quote]

stateofequilibrium
06-03-2004, 02:03 PM
I think this article was good. It does show another side to the conflict and the people in the conflict. As people have said, neither side is black and white, good versus evil. Just consider the current abuse-scandals rocking the US forces in Iraq. You will have people get off on their little niche of power, and exhibits like this does call attention to them.