How Else is Israel Meant to Deal with Terror?

[Sayeret]

How Else is Israel Meant to Deal with Terror?
Uri Dromi
International Herald Tribune

I wouldn't take any lectures from hypocritical Europeans on how to
deal with terror. Especially not from the French, who, when faced
with the Algerian terror in the 1950s, resorted to wide-spread
torture, or from the British, who tried to calm down the Middle East
by bombing villages and by hanging people right and left. I would
listen to Brigadier Sir Robert Thompson, the legendary expert on
counterinsurgency, whose wise advice was to never waste time on
chasing just the guerrillas, but rather to target the more important
figures: the political instigators, because they are the root of all
evil.

What was Israel supposed to do when a man was sitting in Gaza and
masterminding the killing of its civilians? Appeal to the High Court
of Justice in the Hague and wait until a Dutch policeman knocks on
Yassin's door and serves him an arrest warrant? Letting Yassin carry
on with his terrorist leadership would have meant the death of many
innocent Israelis in suicide attacks, followed by the death of many
Palestinians in Israel's subsequent reprisals. The writer is the
director of international outreach at the Israel Democracy
Institute, Jerusalem. (International Herald Tribune)

[RavenW]

That's a good article, man.

you know, i think one day Europe will be ashamed of its support to Muslim terrorists, but then again this happens after lots of innocent blood of Jews would flow, then they would say: "We're sorry, we were blinded by fake promises of evil-doers".

[Fargin]

I almost agree,


You know, I think one day Israel will be ashamed of its support to Muslim terrorists, but then again this happens after lots of innocent blood of Jews would flow, then they would say: "We're sorry, we were blinded by fake promises of evil-doers".

[AirZone]

yeah.. WHERE IS OUR OIL?!?! bloody muslims lets attack suadi! we want our oil :roll:

[S'13]

I almost agree,


You know, I think one day Israel will be ashamed of its support to Muslim terrorists, but then again this happens after lots of innocent blood of Jews would flow, then they would say: "We're sorry, we were blinded by fake promises of evil-doers".

It looks like you're a bit confused...

[Fargin]

I agree

[-Max2-]

RavenW wrote:

you know, i think one day Europe will be ashamed of its support to Muslim terrorists

:cantbeli:

You are a moron.

[citizen-k]

RavenW wrote:

you know, i think one day Europe will be ashamed of its support to Muslim terrorists

:cantbeli:

You are a moron.

Care to explain?

I think he is right - we will all just wait and see what happens when they will start their crusade. (after all, they had such good teachers)
Israelis experts are helping the Greek government to protect the olympic games as we speak - and thats just the promo... wait until muslims in France will have enough of that secular governmant ;)

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

That's a good article, man.

you know, i think one day Europe will be ashamed of its support to Muslim terrorists, but then again this happens after lots of innocent blood of Jews would flow, then they would say: "We're sorry, we were blinded by fake promises of evil-doers".
Your going to have to start coming up with something in the way of facts to back up your accusations the Europe supports terrorists.

[citizen-k]

That's a good article, man.

you know, i think one day Europe will be ashamed of its support to Muslim terrorists, but then again this happens after lots of innocent blood of Jews would flow, then they would say: "We're sorry, we were blinded by fake promises of evil-doers".
Your going to have to start coming up with something in the way of facts to back up your accusations the Europe supports terrorists.

U.N. ambulances used to hide terrorists and smuggle explosives for a start? :roll:

Europes on going support of Arafat although there are proofs that he is still managing terror atacks? :roll:

Europes on going connections with Iran & Syria?

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

I think he is right - we will all just wait and see what happens when they will start their crusade. (after all, they had such good teachers)
Israelis experts are helping the Greek government to protect the olympic games as we speak - and thats just the promo... wait until muslims in France will have enough of that secular governmant ;)
Just for the record I think that Israel is doing rather well at combating terrorism in Israel and yes we can all take a few hints and tips from them but the concept that some Israeli's have of Europe is somewhat detached from real life. Yes we do have a large Muslim minority and yes some of them hate us but its nothing we cannot deal with, if some Israeli's think that we will suddenly come to our senses and declare that Israel was right all along and we must pull out all the stops to assist Israel in any and every which way possible then wake up yourselves.

[citizen-k]

I think he is right - we will all just wait and see what happens when they will start their crusade. (after all, they had such good teachers)
Israelis experts are helping the Greek government to protect the olympic games as we speak - and thats just the promo... wait until muslims in France will have enough of that secular governmant ;)
Just for the record I think that Israel is doing rather well at combating terrorism in Israel and yes we can all take a few hints and tips from them but the concept that some Israeli's have of Europe is somewhat detached from real life. Yes we do have a large Muslim minority and yes some of them hate us but its nothing we cannot deal with, if some Israeli's think that we will suddenly come to our senses and declare that Israel was right all along and we must pull out all the stops to assist Israel in any and every which way possible then wake up yourselves.

deal how? thats the real question...
Europe never had problems dealing things ;)

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

U.N. ambulances used to hide terrorists and smuggle explosives for a start? :roll:
The UN represents a good part of the world not just Europe. Try again.


Europes on going support of Arafat although there are proofs that he is still managing terror atacks? :roll:
He is the only man with any control over the majority of Palestinains. Ok you pick a new leader for them.


Europes on going connections with Iran & Syria?
Yes you can also include the USA's ongoing relationship with both countries but that would be too much for you swallow, you can throw in Libya, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt both Europe and the US are big buddies with those countries also we will be doing some major arms deals with those countries in the near future. :D

[S'13]

Banking on terror
By Rachel Ehrenfeld
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Feb. 27, 2003
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A rumor that the European Parliament had passed legislation to begin an investigation into the Palestinian Authority's use of EU funds, is just that. Francois Zimeray, a MEP (Socialist Party, France) was quoted in Haaretz on February 24 as saying to the World Jewish Congress that such an investigation is underway. He either mis-spoke or was misquoted.

On February 2, 170 members of the EU Parliament demanding accountability, despite Commissioner Chris Patten's strong objection, signed a petition to open a parliamentarian investigation into the EU's aid to the PA.

The following day the European Anti-Fraud Office (OLAF) announced that it has begun an external investigation "in relation to allegations of misuse of funds donated by the European Union in the context of EU budgetary support to the Palestinian Authority."

What has taken OLAF so long?
The PA's own documents demonstrating how the PA and Yasser Arafat used EU funds to pay for terrorism were discovered by the IDF and have been available for over a year.

Volumes of the Palestinian Authority's own documents, including many graced by Arafat's own signature, ordering the Palestinian Ministry of Finance the recipient of hundreds of millions of dollars in EU budgetary aid (The EU's annual budget is about $101 billion) and additional $950 million in humanitarian aid just for the year 2002 to pay members of the al Aksa Martyrs Brigade for killing Israeli citizens, or else for procurement of explosives and illegal weapons.

These and similar documents motivated Ilke Scroeder (Green Party, Germany) and a small group of like-minded ethically conscious European Parliamentarians to demand a full parliamentary investigation.

Finally, on February 13, the Conference of Presidents of the European Parliament decided that instead of a full investigation, setting up a "Working Group" to look into the matter would be enough. But don't hold your breath, this "Working Group" is made of the very same members of the Budgetary and Foreign Affairs Committees who were supposed to monitor how the PA was spending the EU's taxpayers' money.

EU donations to the PA since the Oslo Accords have included demands for accountability, and similar demands have been attached to the EU's direct budgetary assistance since the PA began attacking Israel in September 2000. However, despite EU claims to the contrary, no real effort to monitor how the money it provided the PA was actually spent has ever taken place. The EU claims that the International Monetary Fund (IMF) monitors the PA budget, and EU.

COMMISSIONER for External Affairs Chris Patten maintains that "EU assistance has clear conditions attached to it and is closely monitored by the IMF at the Commission's request."
His office has also stated that, "the IMF conducts a close review of monthly fiscal information covering the whole of the PA budget, including the wage bill."

In bold contrast however, IMF staff members have contradicted Patten's claim on several occasions. The director of the IMF's Middle Eastern Department, George T. Abed, acknowledged on September 2002 that "with weak institutions and a budget of nearly $1 billion, there has, no doubt, been some abuse."

And he added that even "the Palestinian Legislative Council itself has complained about this," and finally that "the IMF does not and cannot control downstream spending by the various Palestinian agencies."

The EU has been arguing that it will only accept the fact that the money it sends has been funding terrorism if there are mechanisms to identify how each individual Euro is spent.

But as money is fungible; and as the EU gave direct funding toward PA salaries, and additional money to the PA Ministry of Finance for various projects; and as the PA's own records prove that it used the Ministry of Finance to pay for terror activities, what other evidence is needed to show that the PA allocated money received from the EU to fund terrorism?

In June 2002, after international condemnation of the PA's corruption, Arafat appointed a new Minister of Finance, Salam Fayyad. He is a former IMF official who, assisted by outside experts, began an attempt to overhaul the corrupt system. As a result, Israel agreed to renew its transfer of payments for Palestinian tax funds, which it had withheld fearing the money would go to fund terrorism.

These payments, unlike the EU's are being monitored by a special group of accountants brought in by the US. However, there are already reports that Arafat ignores and circumvents Fayyad, by ordering others in the Ministry of Finance to pay to known terrorists, thus continuing to assert his control over the PA's funds.

Despite all this, the EU decided to continue its financial aid to the PA on the grounds that it is not convinced that Israel will continue to transfer the money to the PA.

This decision not only perpetuates the EU's unwillingness to account for the whereabouts of money it gave to the Palestinians, but also the EU's lack of accountability and transparency.

Instead of coming clean, the EU Commission headed by Patten, and the Conference of Presidents thought it was better to sweep the investigation under the carpet. Only this time the red on the carpet is the blood of the victims of terrorism.
________________________________

The writer is the director of the NYC based American Center for Democracy and the author of the forthcoming book Funding Evil.

http://www.charlestannock.com/pressarticle.asp?ID=420

[citizen-k]

U.N. ambulances used to hide terrorists and smuggle explosives for a start? :roll:
The UN represents a good part of the world not just Europe. Try again.


Europes on going support of Arafat although there are proofs that he is still managing terror atacks? :roll:
He is the only man with any control over the majority of Palestinains. Ok you pick a new leader for them.


Europes on going connections with Iran & Syria?
Yes you can also include the USA's ongoing relationship with both countries but that would be too much for you swallow, you can throw in Libya, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt both Europe and the US are big buddies with those countries also we will be doing some major arms deals with those countries in the near future. :D

The U.N. keeps attacking Israel (while doing nothing to stop the Palestinians) thanks to the brave brotherhood of European & Arab members which creates the majority needed in order to do that.

Arafat is their leader today especially thanks to Europe - We hate him, the Americans hate him and some parts of his own people hate him - but Europes support is whats keeping him in power. (What will be the reaction of European nations in case Israel will kill him or expel him?)

The US have some new rules about Syria, I guess the news didn't reach Europe... :roll: (nor the upcoming war with Iran or the affect of the war in Iraq on Lybia)

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Arafat is their leader today especially thanks to Europe - We hate him, the Americans hate him and some parts of his own people hate him - but Europes support is whats keeping him in power. (What will be the reaction of European nations in case Israel will kill him or expel him?)
So you are frightened of what Europe might do or say if he is deposed by Israel thats why you do nothing?


The US have some new rules about Syria, I guess the news didn't reach Europe... :roll: (nor the upcoming war with Iran or the affect of the war in Iraq on Lybia)
Yes they do but it still does not affect their relationship when it comes to sending AL-Q suspects for questioning the same arrangement has been made with Jordan and Egypt.

[citizen-k]

Arafat is their leader today especially thanks to Europe - We hate him, the Americans hate him and some parts of his own people hate him - but Europes support is whats keeping him in power. (What will be the reaction of European nations in case Israel will kill him or expel him?)
So you are frightened of what Europe might do or say if he is deposed by Israel thats why you do nothing?


The US have some new rules about Syria, I guess the news didn't reach Europe... :roll: (nor the upcoming war with Iran or the affect of the war in Iraq on Lybia)
Yes they do but it still does not affect their relationship when it comes to sending AL-Q suspects for questioning the same arrangement has been made with Jordan and Egypt.

Yes, we do nothing because enlightend ( rofl ) Europe might send nato to defend its brothers from the middle east (another rofl )

As for the US & Syria, well, its a start - and much more the Europe is doing, don't you think?

[-Max2-]

You are pathetic and pitiful, citizen-k. You really dont know what you are talking about. Especially about Europe...

So please STFU. :bash:

I quit and i dont give a crap what you think...

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Yes, we do nothing because enlightend ( rofl ) Europe might send nato to defend its brothers from the middle east (another rofl )
Nah we cannot send NATO in unless we can persuade the US as they are the senior partner in NATO, still who knows


As for the US & Syria, well, its a start - and much more the Europe is doing, don't you think?
France and Germany are big players in anti terrorism, Israel has a good working relationship with German domestic intelligence and Germany does have a listening operation in China which monitors the middle east, Germany in turn supplies the NSA with data and transripts which would be relevent in the fight against terrorism. Despite Frances frosty relationship with the current US government they do co-operate in intelligence and military technical matters with France providing relevent intelligence.

[citizen-k]

You are pathetic and pitiful, citizen-k. You really dont know what you are talking about. Especially about Europe...

So please STFU. :bash:

I quit and i dont give a crap what you think...

A bright response, typical.

[IDFM203]

Just for the record I think that Israel is doing rather well at combating terrorism in Israel and yes we can all take a few hints and tips from them Well thanks for YOUR compliments and your words of respect :D

but the concept that some Israeli's have of Europe is somewhat detached from real life. Well perhaps in Europe and what goes on there with regards to your Muslim communities, you might have a debatable point, but I believe the concept that we have of your perception of our realities that we face and what we do and how we act are totally removed from factual reality in most or in a lot of cases.


if some Israeli's think that we will suddenly come to our senses and declare that Israel was right all along and we must pull out all the stops to assist Israel in any and every which way possible then wake up yourselves. I must say and I mean no offense to you, that this is a funny statement and I actually had a good laugh reading this :D for indeed I don’t know of any Israelis that are foolish enough to believe that Europe in general will ever come to its senses with regards to Israel ;) , I know I certainly don’t think it will ever happen and I don’t expect it to.

Take that for what you want p-)

Anyways Shalom to you :D

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Well thanks for YOUR compliments and your words of respect :D
No problem, you know I have a bit of a "thing" for the Israeli security and intelligence agencies.;)



Well perhaps in Europe and what goes on there with regards to your Muslim communities, you might have a debatable point, but I believe the concept that we have of your perception of our realities that we face and what we do and how we act are totally removed from factual reality in most or in a lot of cases.
I think this is worth talking about because I do feel that there is some ill conceived notions about the relationship between Muslims in this country and their fellow Britons . I also have experience of this feeling within the USA's Jewish community as a friends cousin was told by friends and family not to study in the UK because of widespread anti-Semitism in our country, the cousin a blonde blue eyed New Yorker was told that she would be given a hard time because not only was she Jewish but was an American. The good thing is the girl came and loved it and being a bit of a fox the only unwanted attention she got was ******.
My friend however has had some bad experiences in London due to her very middle eastern appearance especially just after 911.

I must say and I mean no offense to you, that this is a funny statement and I actually had a good laugh reading this :D for indeed I don’t know of any Israelis that are foolish enough to believe that Europe in general will ever come to its senses with regards to Israel ;) , I know I certainly don’t think it will ever happen and I don’t expect it to.

Take that for what you want p-)

Good I made you laugh just the tonic after a hard week at work, I am a sort of Scottish Jackie Mason obscure and funny at the same time. ;)

[big80a2]

Well as european I think Israel is doing fine.
It's not the case that most europeans supports terror. But we like football more than the mid-eastern news. So often common europeans confuse facts, and acsept any view of just the person siting in front of him...
But hey this is quite the same in the rest of the world ;)
We as europeans often don't see in the inpact terror makes to a sociaty.
We also have this habbit of freedom is so common and normal and that we would always be save.... but wen we think long on this we realize this is not true. Hey there is a match on the telie ;)

well there are ofcourse a lot of good things about europe.
But with terror upcoming I don't think we are up to it....

[IDFM203]

I also have experience of this feeling within the USA's Jewish community as a friends cousin was told by friends and family not to study in the UK because of widespread anti-Semitism in our country, the cousin a blonde blue eyed New Yorker was told that she would be given a hard time because not only was she Jewish but was an American. The good thing is the girl came and loved it and being a bit of a fox the only unwanted attention she got was ******. Well I have mentioned before that I actually have many Brit Jewish friends and I must say that while I am glad that nothing happened to her, with all due respect, what she was told wasn’t far from the truth (and confirmed by reports that I read from various sources as well as from my friends over there).

(In fact one of my friends there does security at a synagogue, so I do know a little more about the threats that Jews face in your nation)

Anyways that’s on anti Semitism and that’s for another subject. As for your Muslim communities in Europe and the interaction from them to Europeans in general and the threat from them to you, well like I said before, you do have a debatable point and while I disagree with you somewhat on that, its not something that I am going to go in a full debate about over here and now.



Good I made you laugh just the tonic after a hard week at work, I am a sort of Scottish Jackie Mason obscure and funny at the same time. ;) hehe :lol: so you have heard or seen Jackie mason? for I personally find him very funny and talented at what he does.......However I must say that I am surprised that you would as well ;)

Shalom :D

[MEGR]

Keep doing what Isreal is currently doing.. Except the giving back of territory to the Palestinians.

[RavenW]

big80a2 wrote
Well as european I think Israel is doing fine.
It's not the case that most europeans supports terror. But we like football more than the mid-eastern news. So often common europeans confuse facts, and acsept any view of just the person siting in front of him...
But hey this is quite the same in the rest of the world
We as europeans often don't see in the inpact terror makes to a sociaty.
We also have this habbit of freedom is so common and normal and that we would always be save.... but wen we think long on this we realize this is not true. Hey there is a match on the telie

well there are ofcourse a lot of good things about europe.
But with terror upcoming I don't think we are up to it....


Well said.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

hehe :lol: so you have heard or seen Jackie mason? for I personally find him very funny and talented at what he does.......
I have watched him on the TV quite a few times and I caught him on BBC Radio 4 early on this year with a show of his own which was recorded in London.

However I must say that I am surprised that you would as well ;)
Surprised! Jackies humour travels well although I must admit its mostly older people in the UK that like him. :)

[IDFM203]

hehe :lol: so you have heard or seen Jackie mason? for I personally find him very funny and talented at what he does.......
I have watched him on the TV quite a few times and I caught him on BBC Radio 4 early on this year with a show of his own which was recorded in London. Interesting for I believe I saw that exact show as well.

(I saw it on video)


Surprised! Jackies humour travels well although I must admit its mostly older people in the UK that like him. :) Well you are right that his target audience are mostly “older” people, though just note that I am nowhere near those ages, though I do appreciate a older (which I like to translate as meaning “smarter” ;) ) sense of humor.

Anyways he is funny and I enjoy his take on things.

I guess I am surprised that you would as well for I felt that a lot of his jokes only Jews would get, for I wasn’t too sure if others outside of the culture of Jews would get some of what he said.

Though I guess if a Scotsman like you can get it and enjoy them, I must be wrong on that ;)

Shalom :D

[budanski]

Palestinian gunmen using UN marked ambulances... (http://e.tln0.com/ame/archives/*******_UN_amblulances_11_may_04.wmv) Just don't expect ******* or the rest of the media to make a fuss over this.

[citizen-k]

Cut the crap, when and where do you recommend I should spend my honeymoon in Scotland?

(We are still planning, and Scotland is an option...)

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Cut the crap, when and where do you recommend I should spend my honeymoon in Scotland?

(We are still planning, and Scotland is an option...)
Speyside is pretty and any where in the Western Highlands is nice and I would take in some of the Edinburgh festival if possible, Glasgow is not a bad night out club wise and has some decent shopping without the London prices August to September is fine its not that cold and you miss out most of the tourist traffic.

[cut]

I wouldn't take any lectures from hypocritical Europeans on how to
deal with terror. Especially not from the French, who, when faced
with the Algerian terror in the 1950s, resorted to wide-spread
torture, or from the British, who tried to calm down the Middle East
by bombing villages and by hanging people right and left. I would
listen to Brigadier Sir Robert Thompson, the legendary expert on
counterinsurgency, whose wise advice was to never waste time on
chasing just the guerrillas, but rather to target the more important
figures: the political instigators, because they are the root of all
evil.


this fool should acquaint himself with the IRA and the peace process in northern Irealnad before calling us hypocritical.

[Ichhabe]

Palestinian gunmen using UN marked ambulances... (http://e.tln0.com/ame/archives/*******_UN_amblulances_11_may_04.wmv) Just don't expect ******* or the rest of the media to make a fuss over this.

So you guys thinks that the UN lease'em out to Palestinian terrorists? He?

[budanski]

Yeah, Kofi Annan was behind the wheels of one of them. :roll:

Sure, just come up with your own conclusions from my remarks. But hey, if we're going to go there, for a supposedly neutral ambulance, its seems that wasnt the first time a UN marked ambulance was used (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=62539).

Lets see, using them in such a manner is a direct violation of Red Cross/Red Crescent and the UN neutrality. Israel would be justified to start taking these ambulances out. We won't see that happening cause the media and the UN would scream bloody murder with folks as yourself in tow.

[Thor]

Israel is dealing with terror mainly by getting USA to do what Israel wants. Let's face it, the US support for Israel is the main cause for moslem terror against America, including 9/11. The main reason for the war in Iraq was to promote Israeli interests as to both General Anthony Zinni and Senator Ernest Hollings. Other reasons were the Iraqi oil and Bush's personal vendetta against Saddam.

I respect Israel and I think they have a right to denfend themselves but I think it's strange that America allows itself to be so manipulated.