Offical McCain/Palin discussion thread

[Hollis]

We have one for Obama and one for McCain..... every time some one feels the need to post when either one sneezes wrong, post it in the appropriate thread.

[Bia]

I LOVE John McCain!
He sneezes perfectly.


WIN!

:P

[Hollis]

I LOVE John McCain!


WIN!

:P


LOLOL.................... I was expecting something more.............. the opposite.

[T3ngu]

I like things made by McCains such as frozen pizzas and fries.

I must read more and work out what is happening with the US polictical race, so i can appear to be informed about the world that is the US of A.

[IraGlacialis]

Too many wrinkles.



What?

[noname]

He is just another Bush term.p-)

[Hellfish]

I wish he'd stick to his own policies instead of adopting GWB's. We don't live in a Red/Blue country anymore... a lot of Obama people could easily swing to McCain if McCain stayed McCain.

[budgie]

I've nothing personally against McCain. Yes, I feel his policies are sometimes too close to those of the previous administration, but on the whole he's a solid candidate. However were I voting in the election, I'd choose Obama because I feel he's a better candidate, with more policies that suit my liberal bent and a more forward-looking agenda.

[Hellfish]

I'm still undecided.

[INAT]

More amazing still there is little if any difference between McCain’s "League of Democracies" and the “Concert of Democracies” suggested by Obama’s advisors.

[therifleman]

McCain is old.

[Umbro2914]

Bob Barr will take enough votes away from McCain to give the election to Barack Hussein Obama

[Lt. James Anderson]

He's an old boring f.. Dumb as f... when he was 20 dumb as f... now, in 50 years he learned nothing!

[Solomin]

He's an old boring f.. Dumb as f... when he was 20 dumb as f... now, in 50 years he learned nothing!

You write so beautifully. I can't help but completely ignore everything you have to say because I am so in awe of your eloquence.

[Hippo]

McCain is old.

HOLY F*CK!!! QUICK SOMEONE STOP THE MOTHERF*CKING PRESSES!!!

JOHN

MCF*CKINGCAIN

IS

F*CKING OLD!!!!!!!!


OH GOD I JUST CREAMED MY PANTS AT THIS SCOOP!!!

[Holycrusader]

McCain is old.


*2
He is a danger for USA. Under him prize of the oil will rise...

[The Black Watch]

ha man of man
America should be happy with the choices they have. The good thing is that both candidates are very good. America will have a good President no matter which way they vote

[Stonewall71]

he has the charisma of a dead fly

[Invisigoth]

as much as he's trying to make it look that way, 'I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president'. :roll:

Btw, funny TIME article on the two of 'em.
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1819898,00.html

[noname]

*2
He is a danger for USA. Under him prize of the oil will rise...

Can I have an oil prize?

[Mackie]

Interested in the election, I am still searching for detailed information about the candidate programs. The official sites saying nothing. :-(

Anyone have a reliable source for details about both?



And I was a surprised how similar the programs are.
Seems McCain is a bit more focused on foreign policy.

[Solomin]

Interested in the election, I am still searching for detailed information about the candidate programs. The official sites saying nothing. :-(

Anyone have a reliable source for details about both?



And I was a surprised how similar the programs are.
Seems McCain is a bit more focused on foreign policy.

It's because Obama doesn't know very much about foreign policy. For god sakes, take away a telepromter and he thinks they speak Arabic in Afghanistan.

[Firefly26]

I'm against McCain because he's been right about alot of unpopular things and I don't want to hear it. I'd rather have somebody tell me everything is going to be alright and that Bush is responsible for everything that is wrong.

[Bia]

Bob Barr will take enough votes away from McCain to give the election to Barack Hussein Obama
Not true. This is a misconception. All qualified people able to run...have the right to run.
If a candidate cant hold sway over his/her possible voters...it's his or her own fault.
No debate.


as much as he's trying to make it look that way, 'I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president'.
Yes... "riding" lmao

Lets be accurate... he went into battle and faced the enemy... did his job and did it well.
Not for a paycheck or a plaque.... but for the ideals and hopes of a nation and its people.
Much more of a qualification than say..... Ivory Tower cokehead King George the retard.

Yeah... I said it. :P

[Douros81]

HOLY F*CK!!! QUICK SOMEONE STOP THE MOTHERF*CKING PRESSES!!!

JOHN

MCF*CKINGCAIN

IS

F*CKING OLD!!!!!!!!


OH GOD I JUST CREAMED MY PANTS AT THIS SCOOP!!!


Thanks for the heads up on this, I also had noe clue in hell that McCain was old. p-)

McCain 08


http://www.nrailasigns.org/images/nra_gunowner.jpg

[crod2487]

how the only thing people hold against McCain is 1) hes too old or 2) his policies are too smiliar to GWB. Wait what???? What is this a contest of individuality or a voting of our CiC? Really whats wrong with the policies he and Bush share? I think regardless of wether or not you beleived we should of invaded Iraq, I think any sane person can agree the best interest of the US is to finish what we started as soon as possible and leave the country with a strong infrastructure so we dont have to go back and can focus on A-stana and the rest of the worls terror pockets. Drilling? I think again any person who sane or has looked at their mobil exxon bill will say we should be ****ing drilling anywhere and everywhere. If there was a oil under the white house we should drill it. We need to get off foriegn oil...period. Is it McCains desire to trade with Colombia? what....

Barr wont be taking anything from McCain. the only thing Libertarians hate more than losing to a republican is losing to a liberal democrat.

[crod2487]

I'm against McCain because he's been right about alot of unpopular things and I don't want to hear it. I'd rather have somebody tell me everything is going to be alright and that Bush is responsible for everything that is wrong.


hahahaha everything will be ok if we just keep our in the sand. **** i was for Paul becuase he convinced me that if we take all our troops out of all the foreign countries in the world and be "very very quiet" the bad men over in the sandbox wont find us.

[crod2487]

ha man of man
America should be happy with the choices they have. The good thing is that both candidates are very good. America will have a good President no matter which way they vote


umm id like to know what Obama has done to be considered a good candidate? I mean besides being young, a minority, and well spoken of course....and no graduating from Harvard doesnt count...."I know someone who went to Harvard and she wasnt too ****ing bright."

[Douros81]

umm id like to know what Obama has done to be considered a good candidate? I mean besides being young, a minority, and well spoken of course....and no graduating from Harvard doesnt count...."I know someone who went to Harvard and she wasnt too ****ing bright."
JACK ****

If I said the real reason I would get banned again, so instead I just say nothing.

[Ordie]

Why some conservatives are backing Obama

Carolyn Lochhead, Chronicle Washington Bureau (clochhead@sfchronicle.com)
Monday, July 7, 2008

(07-07) 04:00 PDT Washington -- The "Obamacans" that Sen. Barack Obama used to joke about - Republican apostates who whispered their support for his candidacy - have morphed into a new phenomenon, or syndrome, as detractors like to call it: the Obamacons.
These are conservatives who have publicly endorsed the presumptive Democratic nominee, dissidents from the brain trust of think tanks, ex-officials and policy magazines that have fueled the Republican Party since the 1960s. Scratch the surface of this elite, and one finds a profound dismay that is far more damaging to the GOP than the usual 10 percent of registered Republicans expected to switch sides during a presidential election.
"The untold story of the Bush administration is the deliberate annihilation of the Reaganite, small-government wing of the Republican Party," said Michael Greve, director of the Federalism Project at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank. "A lot of people are very bitter about it."
Many conservatives and their brethren, the free-market, socially liberal libertarians, are deeply skeptical of Obama's rhetorical flirtations with free-market ideas and view his policies as orthodox liberalism. Yet one measure of their rupture with the GOP is their open disregard for Republican nominee John McCain and their now almost-wistful view of a president the Republicans tried to impeach.
"When he leaves the room, everybody thinks he just agreed with them," Greve said of Obama. "We don't know if you're really buying a pig in a poke here. It could be the second coming of the Clinton administration. If people have any confidence in that, I think a whole lot of conservatives would vote for him."
Such sentiments reflect a collapse of the "big tent" conservative coalition that Republican President Ronald Reagan forged in 1980, uniting free-market, small-government types, Christian evangelicals, cultural traditionalists and anti-communists, now called neoconservatives. The neoconservatives, whose intellectual leaders include New York Times columnist David Brooks and Weekly Standard publisher Bill Kristol, remain firmly inside the GOP and strongly back McCain, who appeals to their model of "national greatness." So do mainstream conservative think tanks such as the Heritage Foundation, which issues regular attacks against Obama's economic plans, and the traditionalist magazine National Review.
The left often lumps these factions together, but the Iraq war and President Bush's "compassionate conservatism" that led to an expansion of government have ruptured the coalition. Many conservatives are aghast at the rise in spending and debt under the Bush administration, its expansion of executive power, and what they see as a trampling of civil liberties and a taste for empire.
"I do know libertarians who think Obama is the Antichrist, that he's farther left than John Kerry, much farther left than Bill Clinton, and you'd clearly have to be insane to vote for this guy," said David Boaz, executive vice president of the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank. "But there are libertarians who say, 'Oh yeah? Do you think Obama will increase spending by $1 trillion, because that's what Republicans did over the past two presidential terms. So really, how much worse can he be?' And there are certainly libertarians who think Obama will be better on the war and on foreign policy, on executive power and on surveillance than McCain."
Libertarians are tired of Christian evangelicals, who they believe captured the GOP under President Bush. Evangelicals, for their part, are skeptical of McCain, who in 2000 called Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson "agents of intolerance." McCain has tried to make amends, promising to stand firm on abortion and same-*** marriage, and appoint conservative Supreme Court justices, but mistrust runs deep.
Douglas Kmiec is former chief of the Office of Legal Counsel in the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations, and now a constitutional law professor at Pepperdine University and a devout Catholic. Kmiec endorsed Obama earlier this year, despite his conviction that Obama "believes in a pretty progressive agenda."
Kmiec said his support deepened after meeting with Obama and other faith leaders last month, during which the busy candidate spent 2 1/2 in a freewheeling discussion with people who differed with him.
"I think he's the right person at the right time to re-establish principles of constitutional governance that have been ill treated by the current administration, and to free us from the tar paper that we know is Iraq," Kmiec said, adding that many Republicans privately agree. "I think he's a man in the market for every good idea he can find, and he doesn't care what label it comes with."
David Friedman, the son of late conservative icon and Nobel economist Milton Friedman, has also endorsed Obama. Calling McCain a "nationalist," Friedman, an economist at Santa Clara University, thinks Obama could turn out like the liberals who deregulated New Zealand's economy.
"Of the two, Obama is less bad and at least has a chance in some ways of being good," said Friedman. Friedman likes Obama's University of Chicago advisers such as Austan Goolsbee and Cass Sunstein, who he believes are trying to forge a new leftism that incorporates free-market views. "I don't expect to agree in general with them," Friedman said, "but I certainly would be happy if the left became more libertarian, since the right seems to be less libertarian than it used to be."
Many see the Iraq war as hostile to conservative values and as a "friend of the state" - something that inherently expands the reach of the government, as Milton Friedman once described war.
"People don't understand that there has always been a small but very significant element of conservatives who have been against the war from day one and who, like me, also hate George Bush and think he's the most incompetent president in American history," said Bruce Bartlett, a supply-side economist who coined the term Obamacons. "The few people who are slavishly pro-Republican, live or die, slavishly pro-Bush like the Weekly Standard crowd, have gotten lot more publicity than they deserve."
Many conservatives are looking for a Clintonesque "Sister Soulja" or "end welfare as we know it" moment from Obama, a concrete demonstration of a willingness to abandon Democratic dogma.
"The Republicans have left the libertarian baby on the doorstep, but Democrats won't open the door," said Boaz. "There are people saying Obama's a University of Chicago Democrat, and you can't spend 10 years at the University of Chicago without having some appreciation for markets. I'd like to believe that. I just don't see the rubber meeting the road."
Matt Welch, editor in chief of the libertarian Reason Magazine and author of "McCain, the Myth of a Maverick," thinks Obama's conservative support "comes as much anything else from people being exhausted with the Republican coalition, who are mad at one wing or another, and they just think it's time for them to lose. It's just, 'Look, we're out of ideas, we're exhausted, it's not working, we don't know what our principles are anymore, let's take one for the team and have a black guy be the president for a while.' "
Obama is actively trying to switch one prominent Republican to an Obamacan: former Secretary of State Colin Powell, who met with both candidates last month.
Obama's conservative fan club

'Obamacans' - Sen. Barack Obama's term for Republicans who whisper their support for him.
'Obamacons'- leading conservatives of various stripes who have declared their support for the Democrat.

Here is a sampling of views of conservatives who have either endorsed Obama or are considering endorsing him.

Andrew Sullivan, conservative blogger for the Atlantic Monthly: "Obama's story confirms what conservatives have always believed about America. He is the black son of an immigrant, raised by a modest single mother and yet despite the obstacles inherent in his background he is approaching the pinnacle of American success. Isn't he the poster boy for what conservatives have always assured us is possible in America?"
Armstrong Williams, an African American conservative and talk radio host who is not an Obamacon but said he might become one: "I'm not going to just blindly go to the polls and vote for someone because they're a Republican anymore. I wouldn't have given two cents of thought to this in the past, but fortunately I'm maturing and fortunately for the first time in my life I could vote for a Democrat for president." Williams refuses to base his vote on race, "however the stain of America is race, human slavery and de jure segregation and no one can ignore the fact that since the founding of this country, only white men have occupied the White House."
Larry Hunter, supply-side economist who helped write Republicans' 1994 Contract With America: "How can I possibly support a candidate who proposes domestic policies (especially tax and economic policies) that are completely antithetical to everything I believe? ... It is indicative of how much I value individual freedom and how profoundly important I believe foreign policy to be at this juncture of American history that I am enthusiastically supporting Barack Obama for president. It doesn't hurt that McCain himself is only slightly less wrong on economic and tax policy. ... My sentiments on Obama are best captured in the note a conservative friend of mine, Wendell Gunn, wrote Obama when he sent him a campaign contribution: 'My contribution to your campaign is based on hope and change: My hope that you will change your mind on the tax and economic policies you are proposing.' "
Andrew J. Bacevich, professor of history and international relations at Boston University, writing in the American Conservative: "We should take (McCain) at his word: his commitment to continuing the most disastrous of President Bush's misadventures is irrevocable. ... He is the candidate of the War Party. The election of John McCain would provide a new lease on life to American militarism, while perpetuating the U.S. penchant for global interventionism marketed under the guise of liberation."
Douglas Kmiec, former head of the Office of Legal Counsel in the Reagan and first Bush administrations: "I'm disappointed that a legacy of great achievement that I think Ronald Reagan and the first President Bush brought to the Republican Party (has ended): in terms of fiscal responsibility and conveying as Reagan did that a free market and personal responsibility and defense of home and local community often redounds to the happiness of the human person. Somehow we've managed in the last eight years to forget all the basics, to violate all of the first principles. We've lost sight of the things that really mattered to us. If I had to give us a report card, I'd have to say, in the way the nuns used to express it, 'not promoted to the following grade.' "
Susan Eisenhower, granddaughter of Republican President Dwight Eisenhower: "Deep in America's heart, I believe, is the nagging fear that our best years as a nation are over. We are disliked overseas and feel insecure at home. We watch as our federal budget hemorrhages red ink and our civil liberties are eroded. Crises in energy, health care and education threaten our way of life and our ability to compete internationally. ... My grandfather was pursued by both political parties ... (and) went on to win the presidency with the indispensable help of a 'Democrats for Eisenhower' movement. These crossover voters were attracted by his pledge to bring change to Washington and by the prospect that he would unify the nation. It is in this great tradition that I support Barack Obama's candidacy for president."
David Friedman, economist at Santa Clara University and son of Nobel-winning economist Milton Friedman: "Bush was elected on a pro-market, small government platform and proceeded to greatly expand the size of government - and not only in the form of military spending. His view of the legitimate power of the executive branch, including the authority to deliberately violate federal law, I find frightening. Perhaps, if we are lucky, Obama will turn out to be the anti-Bush."

Source:http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/07/MN3T11JI0P.DTL&type=printable

[gaijinsamurai]

Interesting article. Thanks, Ordie!

[brainplay]

Crappy article actually. They're called "moderates" and are often persuaded by popularity or bandwaggoning. They might vote one way and then another the next election. However, this it a decent piece of Obama stroking propoganda.

However, there are rant sections stickied where thies really belongs so that you can rail against or drool over your favorite candidate.

[gaijinsamurai]

Actually, I'm undecided between the two candidates at this point. There are things I like and dislike about both.
The fact of the matter is that the current presidential administration has turned a lot of Republicans away from the GOP, especially with their war in Iraq, disregard for individal liberties, and embracing of the religious right.
Obama has his issues too, of course, and that's what keeps me from rallying to his cause at this point.

[gaijinsamurai]

They're called "moderates" and are often persuaded by popularity or bandwaggoning. They might vote one way and then another the next election. .

I consider myself a "moderate", and contrary to your belief, I am not persuaded by popularity or bandwaggoning. Rather than unswerving loyalty to a political party, I try to learn as much as I can about each individual candidate, and vote for the one who's stance on the issues, character, and experience I can most stomach. I have voted for both Democrats and Republicans, and have a tendency to avoid candidates who try to appeal to populist emotions or the fringe.

Part of what attracts me to McCain is the fact that unlike most of the other Republican candidates, he has had a history of distancing himself from the religious right, and has shown a willingness to be open-minded and independent.

[Dominique]

While I think Brainplay is talking out his forth point of contact, he is correct about this article belonging in the sticky topic set aside for Obama

[Power_serj]

Actually, I'm undecided between the two candidates at this point. There are things I like and dislike about both.
The fact of the matter is that the current presidential administration has turned a lot of Republicans away from the GOP, especially with their war in Iraq, disregard for individal liberties, and embracing of the religious right.
Obama has his issues too, of course, and that's what keeps me from rallying to his cause at this point.


IIRC, Democrats voted for both the war in Iraq and the PATRIOT ACT, so it's not the GOP's war, it's America's war. :bash:

[Createdeemcee]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/7/3/-/2/mccain_no_old_men.jpg

[Power_serj]

*Notes that Obama cheerleaders are immature* http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/5973/iconyesyd0.gif

[Createdeemcee]

No theres an Obama Rant, with Mccain girls, Now to make this fair and equal we have to get our licks in too, wouldnt be America if so.

[Createdeemcee]

IIRC, Democrats voted for both the war in Iraq and the PATRIOT ACT, so it's not the GOP's war, it's America's war. :bash:


Get It right boy, A few dems votes, Most of us were totally against it!

[gaijinsamurai]

IIRC, Democrats voted for both the war in Iraq and the PATRIOT ACT, so it's not the GOP's war, it's America's war. :bash:

It's funny when Republicans try to distance themselves from Bush's incompetence. Kinda like rats leaving a sinking ship!

[budgie]

IIRC, Democrats voted for both the war in Iraq and the PATRIOT ACT, so it's not the GOP's war, it's America's war. :bash:

Voting 'for' the war is a gross misrepresentation. Congress gave the President authority to use force if necessary. The reason so many of them changed their minds afterward is that it was shown to have been unnecessary. Of course the rest of us noticed at the time, but then we didn't have a brow-beating right-wing media to fear....


It's funny when Republicans try to distance themselves from Bush's incompetence. Kinda like rats leaving a sinking ship!

And yeah it is. They tend to ignore the facts of the day and start whining about how Bill Clinton thought there were WMD a few years earlier, or how this Democrat or that who had no separate access to the faulty, sexed-up "intel" also thought it was a cassus belli. They like to make it sound as though the whole war was thought up by the Democrats in Congress rather than the administration who had been pushing for it from day zero...

But they didn't. Congress, and by extension the people, were tricked (with phoney intel) into giving the president the authority which he then went out and abused.

[Thor]

It's just retardation. You can't support Castrobama and still be a conservative/libertarian.

[Createdeemcee]

It's just retardation. You can't support Castrobama and still be a conservative/libertarian.


Its totally funny how every conservit party member thinks of calling obama every name except what his parents named him. Just plain low, and shows full desperation of a dieing party. Ran out of things politicly, and now resort to name calling. Last ditch for sure.

[ronnieraygun]

Its totally funny how every conservit party member thinks of calling obama every name except what his parents named him. Just plain low, and shows full desperation of a dieing party. Ran out of things politicly, and now resort to name calling. Last ditch for sure.

Dude's Swedish anyway. Let him go pick on Ingvar Carlsson or something.

[Thor]

Well, I'm merely a concerned world citizen, but I thought that was pretty catchy actually. p-)

Fox likes it too.

http://www.236.com/images/photos/2393/original/original.jpg

[Kak]

Perhaps you're not familiar with Fox News.

[Bia]

It's always refreshing to see party loyalty disolving.

I know retards...on both sides... so loyal... if the only candidate running for their party were a convicted pedophile....they'd undoubtly vote for them still.
(any election big or small)

:D

[seraosha]

Its totally funny how every conservit party member thinks of calling obama every name except what his parents named him. Just plain low, and shows full desperation of a dieing party. Ran out of things politicly, and now resort to name calling. Last ditch for sure.

Pretty ironic, considering your current choice of avatars...

[brainplay]

I consider myself a "moderate", and contrary to your belief, I am not persuaded by popularity or bandwaggoning. Rather than unswerving loyalty to a political party, I try to learn as much as I can about each individual candidate, and vote for the one who's stance on the issues, character, and experience I can most stomach. I have voted for both Democrats and Republicans, and have a tendency to avoid candidates who try to appeal to populist emotions or the fringe.

You and some of the other may be exceptions. However, you cannot deny that much of my statement is true concerning the rest.

This thread is turning into another finger pointing contest about the candidates. It should be locked or merged with one of the other rant threads.

[Power_serj]

Get It right boy, A few dems votes, Most of us were totally against it!

Don't you call me "boy". :fork:

Go check your facts, a lot of Democrats were beating the war drums just as hard as Republicans. Anyway, my point is that the war does not belong to President Bush nor a political party, it is the war of the United States of America.

[gaijinsamurai]

Yes, Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, John Kerry, and a whole lot of Democrats went along with Bush, like sheep instead of elected officials who were put into office and paid accordingly, in order to ask the tough questions, think for themselves, and serve as a balance to the Oval Office. My contempt for these politicians does not minimalize the fact that this IS Bush's war. He and his administration planned it, advocated for it, and mislead the public in order to get it.
It is "America's War" only in that we all have to deal with the mess.

[gaijinsamurai]

You and some of the other may be exceptions. However, you cannot deny that much of my statement is true concerning the rest.

This thread is turning into another finger pointing contest about the candidates. It should be locked or merged with one of the other rant threads.

Nearly all my friends, co-workers, and acquaintences are what you call "moderates": neither Bible-thumping, anti-gay, John Birch Society members, nor Che Guavara-loving, Marx-quoting, protesters. Most have university degrees, many are veterans, most support the 2nd Amendment and at the same time, want sensible funding for education & infrastructure, protection for the environment, and an end to the senseless war in Iraq. They know they probably won't find a candidate who sees eye-to-eye with them on all the issues, but want someone in office who supports the issues that matter to them. Also, they see experience, competency, and a moral backbone as important. If the candidate from the other party does not agree with all their beliefs, but shows more promise in leading our country effectively in difficult times, that's who will get their vote. This may sound "wishy-washy" and like vulnerability to popularity and jumping on the bandwagon to you, but the fact of the matter is that usually, the most moderate candidates are the ones who win elections.

And if you don't like this thread, nobody is forcing you to participate in it.

[budgie]

Nearly all my friends, co-workers, and acquaintences are what you call "moderates": neither Bible-thumping, anti-gay, John Birch Society members, nor Che Guavara-loving, Marx-quoting, protesters. Most have university degrees, many are veterans, most support the 2nd Amendment and at the same time, want sensible funding for education & infrastructure, protection for the environment, and an end to the senseless war in Iraq. They know they probably won't find a candidate who sees eye-to-eye with them on all the issues, but want someone in office who supports the issues that matter to them. Also, they see experience, competency, and a moral backbone as important. If the candidate from the other party does not agree with all their beliefs, but shows more promise in leading our country effectively in difficult times, that's who will get their vote. This may sound "wishy-washy" and like vulnerability to popularity and jumping on the bandwagon to you, but the fact of the matter is that usually, the most moderate candidates are the ones who win elections.
.

This sounds like an apt description of teh swing voters who may just decide the election

[brainplay]

Nearly all my friends, co-workers, and acquaintences are what you call "moderates":

And if you don't like this thread, nobody is forcing you to participate in it.

Gaijin, how many friends do you have? Does your circle of friends account for every other moderate or "independent" out there? No it does not even by a small margin. You do not have to justify yourself here and I did not request your credentials. I took your word about your strong substance already.

I pointed out the obvious. But I can see that people want to continue it instead of in the section it belongs.


It is "America's War" only in that we all have to deal with the mess.

No, we've seen just how strong the voice of America can be when opposed to something as we did with immigration. This is America's war because there are many who are for it even though its not popular and who are willing to back it to the end. Thats always a tough pill for people to swallow.

[budgie]

This is America's war because there are many who are for it even though its not popular and who are willing to back it to the end. Thats always a tough pill for people to swallow.

Oh come on how many times do we have to hear this nonsense? People are opposed to the war on terror? Presumably these same people therefore 'support' the terrorists? No doubt this includes the entire Democratic caucus....

Nobody wants the 'war on terror' to fail or end before the al Qaeda are stopped. But there are plenty who oppose the current administration's utter mishandling (and for that matter their smug branding) of the so-called 'GWOT'. It has been going since well before 9/11, and is not the sole preserve of America or the Bush Administration or the Republicans. It's time we put an end to the myth that anyone other than the above are opposed to 'winning' or 'backing it until the end'.

Moreover, refusing to recognise and commit to solving the original causes (Palestine, for example) and concentrating entirely on the military aspect, the 'war' part of it, will not speed the end of it any.

[Arvin]

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20080709/2008_07_08t202629_450x299_us_usa_politics_mccain_iran.jpg

PITTSBURGH (*******) - Presidential candidate John McCain, who once sang in jest about bombing Iran, on Tuesday reacted to a report of rising U.S. cigarette exports to the country by saying it may be "a way of killing 'em."

McCain, known for acerbic comments and for sometimes firing verbally from the hip, was responding to a report that U.S. exports to Iran rose tenfold during President George W. Bush's term in office despite hostility between the two states.

A rise in cigarette sales was a big part of that, according to an Associated Press analysis of seven years of U.S. trade figures.
"Maybe that's a way of killing 'em," McCain said to reporters during a campaign stop in Pittsburgh. "I meant that as a joke, as a person who hasn't had a cigarette in 28 years, 29 years," he added, laughing.
He declined further comment on the report.

At a campaign meeting in South Carolina last year the Arizona senator, asked if there is a plan to attack Iran, began his answer with a variation on the lyrics of a well-known pop song, Barbara Ann.

"You know that old Beach Boys song, Bomb Iran?" he said, then sang "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran" before discussing what he considered Iran's serious threat to Israel and international security.

Tension is high between the two countries over Iran's nuclear program, which Washington says is aimed at making an atomic bomb but Tehran says is for generating energy. There has been media speculation of a possible U.S. or Israeli military strike against Iran's nuclear facilities.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080709/pl_nm/usa_politics_mccain_iran_dc;_ylt=A9G_b7L7gHRI0v0ApwJsnwcF

[Sanat-e-naft]

What a ****. This guy is supposed to be the mouth-piece of America? Didn't Bush do enough already to make us look like the retarded little cousin of the international community. Lord.

[Fiber]

He is in for some trouble! The tobacco lobby will eat him alive!

[Sanat-e-naft]

He really is a loose cannon. You have no idea what is coming next.

[BugHunt]

Tbh i thought he meant stubbing ciggies out on a Iranian until he dies :|

But in the context his comment is humourous if a little inconsidered.

[kamaz]

Ohhhh Nooooes!!!! Omg!!!! Omg Omg Oh My God...

[Paya]

He's too human to be president. And I say that in all seriousness.

[Sanat-e-naft]

A President must be more measured and calculating. Not some shoot from the hip cowboy.

[Stonewall71]

keep up the good work Mccainp-)

[Parx400]

My god people are so anal these days. Its a joke. A JOKE. The bomb Iran joke i will admit was not funny but come on people.

[Sanat-e-naft]

Make jokes about some things...but be smart enough to not openly talk about killing another group of people, even if it is a joke. That kind of joke is more befitting the water cooler than the President of the United States of America. I mean...he would be joining the ranks of Lincoln, Washington, Jefferson, Roosevelt...have some class.

[Stonewall71]

if it was an Iranian saying the same thing about americans all hell would have broken loose

being as it is...it's a "joke"

[Arvin]

He jokes alot.

[Snoshi]

if it was an Iranian saying the same thing about americans all hell would have broken loose

being as it is...it's a "joke"

The only problem with your hypothesis is that Iranians do not joke, but really say what they mean.

[Createdeemcee]

A President must be more measured and calculating. Not some shoot from the hip cowboy.


Thats what has us in the jam were in now.

[IDF_TANKER]

He really has a thing with Iran, doesn't he? This guy worries me.

[Sanat-e-naft]

He really does. And he should worry you.

[Arvin]

Persian phobia.Gotta loove it.

http://uk.youtube.com/v/MvyZlIs4ELg

[IDF_TANKER]

Persian phobia.Gotta loove it.



Well, don't you think that at least partly the current Iranian regime's behavior has something to do with it?

[Sanat-e-naft]

It is 100% the current government's fault. Most people who actually know Iranians like them. But not these guys running the place, they go out of their way to create hysteria.

[Chimera]

Well, don't you think that at least partly the current Iranian regime's behavior has something to do with it?

The current Iranian regime should drive people to behave in a more appropriate and more serious way. This guy is generalizing a whole country as the great Evil and that all of "them" should die. And that's very scary. We all know how opponents, gays, and others are treated in Iran. Do they deserve to die of breat cancer as well? A presidential candidate should take this whole thing very very very seriously. And he doesn't.

[wotsnext]

What a ****. This guy is supposed to be the mouth-piece of America? Didn't Bush do enough already to make us look like the retarded little cousin of the international community. Lord.
Yes! I guess he did p-)

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

A President must be more measured and calculating. Not some shoot from the hip cowboy.

If he were measured and calculating people would say he's a slimy politician.

[Createdeemcee]

If he were measured and calculating people would say he's a slimy politician.

Hope that was Sarcasm!

[Afro-European]

During a breakfast with reporters yesterday hosted by the Christian Science Monitor, top McCain adviser Carly Fiorina talked up Sen. John McCain’s (R-AZ) preferred approach to health care (http://www.americanprogressaction.org/progressreport/2008/06/pr20080606) by saying that “there are many health insurance plans that will cover Viagra but won’t cover birth-control medication (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/07/AR2008070702265.html?hpid=news-col-blog)“:

Carly Fiorina, the former Hewlett-Packard chief who is now the Republican National Committee’s “Victory Chairman,” was discussing consumer-driven health insurance at a breakfast with reporters when she proposed “a real, live example which I’ve been hearing a lot about from women:
There are many health insurance plans that will cover Viagra but won’t cover birth-control medication. Those women would like a choice.” For effect, the woman frequently mentioned as a possible McCain running mate repeated: “Those women would like a choice.”
But Fiorina neglects to mention that in 2003 McCain voted against (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=1&vote=00045#position) an amendment that would have required insurance coverage (http://www.ppaction.org/ppvotes/pr-03052008_mccain.html) of prescription birth control but voted for Viagra.

Any idea as to why John McCain,72 years old,supported the "Viagra amendment" but not the birth control one? Humm his blond haired,blue eyed wife still looks yummy yummy:):):).*Sarcasm*.
btw check this video how he yesterday ambarrassly reacted when asked about the infamous "viagra bill": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6IlGXhCUHo&eurl=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/10/mccains-birth-control-pro_n_112048.html

[Britboy]

I can't wait for that bloke who does the 'WASHINGTON (AP) - OBAMA TAKES A STEAMING DUMP' bulletins after you post to come along and branch out into McCain territory now...

[GoSka37]

Where's the Obama one? I heard he pooped again... I also hear there were pictures attached!

[Eat a bullet]

Where's the Obama one? I heard he pooped again... I also hear there were pictures attached!
To his poop?

[GoSka37]

To his poop?

no no... to the Article... however I hear he may attempt that next week...

[Holycrusader]

So why Obama thread is in different part of forum?

[Killbucket]

It's separate, but equal.

Being a white guy is getting to be a lot of hassle.
I'd move to Canada, but their gun laws are draconian.


Going through old black and white films, so I can learn rant terminology he will relate to.

23Skiddooo!

[Holycrusader]

I hear that McCain thinks that Tchechoslovakia still exists.... :)

[Killbucket]

Since he can't use a computer or the 'net, I feel like we're picking on the Amish here!

[Abbadon the Despoiler]

he called Czech Republic Czechoslovakia few times during last days, so thats it for his statement that hes more experienced in foreign affairs than Obama :)

[Holycrusader]

he called Czech Republic Czechoslovakia few times during last days, so thats it for his statement that hes more experienced in foreign affairs than Obama :)


And he does not learn on his mistakes...

[Killbucket]

Making the prediction:

McCain drops out before November for "health reasons".
Romney takes his place, and loses to the O-guy.
That is:
IF the 'publicans (I'm one, but going Demo this time) figger out they're running a dead horse.

McCain is ready for a good rest home, it's OBVIOUS.

[Storm_82]

Is it just me or are his arms too short....he always looks akward whenever holding the mic................and he's creepy, one might say decomposing.

http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/2252112316_d48bd7d0fa.jpg

[Killbucket]

http://s217.photobucket.com/albums/cc83/TomCat1948or2/Blog2008/Apr-Jun/DontBeMcConnedonRacism_46E5/mccain2.jpghttp://www.air-sharp.com/cryptkeeper.jpg

[Killbucket]

http://www.air-sharp.com/2252112316_d48bcd7d0fa.jpg
Thank my old Cub Scout Handbook, and it's chapter on photo cropping.

[Fiber]

You should shop in some nudity like the Iranians would!

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

Is it just me or are his arms too short....he always looks akward whenever holding the mic................and he's creepy, one might say decomposing.

http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/2252112316_d48bd7d0fa.jpg

He can't raise his arms over his head due to the torture he suffered in Vietnam. He was tied up and stretched with ropes and also had his arms broken several times.

[Killbucket]

According to Wikipedia, the arms disability is from one of the FIVE planes he's had a role in destroying.
http://www.air-sharp.com/Hotshots26.jpeg
"Come to think of it, I've never landed a plane in my life!"

[Killbucket]

http://www.air-sharp.com/cainbong.jpg
Now he looks younger.

EDIT: forgot the rave stamp.

EDITEDIT: forgot the Rave.

EDITEDITEDIT: forgot Madonna.

[Abbadon the Despoiler]

^ buhahahah
som1 post that scary pic of him from the other thread and it ll perfect ;)

[AmericanAirman]

Where did the OBama rant thread go?

[Hellfish]

And why is this in OT&H and not Politicall?

[Killbucket]

Because no serious points are being made, just people letting off steam.

I think it's right where it belongs.

I wouldn't want anybody to seriously think Madonna would date McCain.

The broad's got lawyers.

[Niels]

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/6941/wewaw2wz3.jpg

[Killbucket]

Where did the OBama rant thread go?

His people probably moved it to that "rumor clearinghouse site" I heard they had.

Obama and McCain sit down to play chess. Neither is allowed help.

Like I have to wonder who wins two out of three.

My dog Wudgie and McCain sit down to play chess. Neither is allowed help.

Like I have to wonder who wins five out of seven.

[Killbucket]

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/6941/wewaw2wz3.jpg
My hat is OFF.
...the picture didn't change....YIKES!

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/6941/wewaw2wz3.jpg

"I am using this image to illustrate that my opponent's plans for change are all smoke and mirrors..."

[Killbucket]

http://www.air-sharp.com/wewaw2wz3.jpg

[Hippo]

hey killbucket, no one thinks youre smart, witty, or funny. Youre just trying too hard

kthxbai

[Killbucket]

(cries quietly for twenty minutes, eats 2 quarts of ice cream)
Ow.

[Zoomie]

And why is this in OT&H and not Politicall?

Just look at the thread, and I think that'll make it pretty clear.

[Winger]

Latest article....

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/07/18/mccain-we-have-succeeded-in-iraq/

[Killbucket]

“I can say that the war will be won when we will have a majority of Americans … returned.”

Going on to Afghanistan is not "returning".

[Winger]

“I can say that the war will be won when we will have a majority of Americans … returned.”

Going on to Afghanistan is not "returning".

He's speaking with regards to Iraq.

[Killbucket]

http://www.air-sharp.com/mccain533-blog.jpg
Credibility is required in this case...
Let's see him on THIS street again today, without the flak vest.

[Winger]

http://www.air-sharp.com/mccain533-blog.jpg
Credibility is required in this case...
Let's see him on THIS street again today, without the flak vest.

You failed to point out that because of who he is he would be a primary target. Of course he would be wearing a vest! Your statement is fail.

[SBL]

Credibility is required in this case...
Let's see him on THIS street again today, without the flak vest.

Why not Obama, too?

[Winger]

Why not Obama, too?

He wouldn't be allowed to set foot on that street without armor. He is also a target of opporunity.

[Killbucket]

Yes, they are "targets"...with full security detail, etc.

I would walk ANY Iraqi street with half their backup, disguised as either man.
With no kevlar tee-shirt.

I mean that.

My bet is we don't get pics of Mr. O. in bulletproof attire.

This IS a rant thread, right?

[Vehemence]

Just look at the thread, and I think that'll make it pretty clear.

You answered nothing.

[mudbunny]

MCcain is a patriot and has served his country well, but if he's elected President there's isn't going to be a damn thing that changes, for the better, in this country.
We might as well dig up Reagan, rig him up with a bunch of "Weekend At Bernies" pulleys and gadgets and stick his corpse in the White House.
McCain has too many friends in D.C and that's EXACTLY what we need to get away from.

[SBL]

MCcain is a patriot and has served his country well, but if he's elected President there's isn't going to be a damn thing that changes, for the better, in this country.
We might as well dig up Reagan, rig him up with a bunch of "Weekend At Bernies" pulleys and gadgets and stick his corpse in the White House.
McCain has too many friends in D.C and that's EXACTLY what we need to get away from.

???
Obama doesn't have friends in DC? :|

[mudbunny]

???
Obama doesn't have friends in DC? :|

I'm sure he does, but spending 2 or 4 years in D.C is a little different than 30 don't you think?
You know that McCain owes some people in that town some favors.

[SBL]

I'm sure he does, but spending 2 or 4 years in D.C is a little different than 30 don't you think?
You know that McCain owes some people in that town some favors.

This town is all about favors, and you can bet with his level of experience, that Obama is going to owe some people should he be elected. There's no escaping it.

[mudbunny]

This town is all about favors, and you can bet with his level of experience, that Obama is going to owe some people should he be elected. There's no escaping it.

No doubt, but a tree that is 30 years old has bigger roots than a 4 year old tree.
That was the only analogy that I could come up with on such short notice.

[Killbucket]

Which one would you trust to buy a vehicle for you?

(This is question is my personal "Litmus Test" of co-workers, employees. If I'm filled with dread, I'm DONE.)

[mudbunny]

Which one would you trust to buy a vehicle for you?

Interesting question.
McCain is probably a Chevy/GM guy and Obama would probably go Honda or Toyota.
I would have to say Obama, because the McCain choice is too fiscally irresponsible during the current crisis.

[Createdeemcee]

He wouldn't be allowed to set foot on that street without armor. He is also a target of opporunity.

So is GWB, for killing babys in Iraq. He seems to do fine. So will obama if elected.

[SBL]

So is GWB, for killing babys in Iraq. He seems to do fine. So will obama if elected.
Oh brother. :roll:

[Winger]

So is GWB, for killing babys in Iraq. He seems to do fine. So will obama if elected.

Yeah, because he's running around Baghdad with a knife killing kids at every opportunity:bash:

Feckin idiot. Think before you open your c%ckholster.

[Winger]

This town is all about favors, and you can bet with his level of experience, that Obama is going to owe some people should he be elected. There's no escaping it.

If he wins, he will be bent over for the next 4 years. His hole will be huge.

[Winger]

I'm sure he does, but spending 2 or 4 years in D.C is a little different than 30 don't you think?
You know that McCain owes some people in that town some favors.

More like people owe him. He's crossed over and supported dems on a lot of their bills that were well and sound but otherwise had no wheels.

[Killbucket]

I think that's my main issue: I can't assume any behavior on the part of Mr. McCain.
He's the same age as my decrepit Father-in-law, who I won't let into the shop because of all the sharp objects.
He doesn't know Czechoslovakia is hist, either.

[Killbucket]

http://www.air-sharp.com/the.babys.jpg
Hard to argue the Babys are still alive....
-Arrest that man!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOl2wp__yfc
Here, I'll save ya old folks from having to dig for the tune that just popped in.

[Migman]

...To The Internet

Posted July 21, 2008 | 09:28 AM (EST)

In a daring bid to wrench attention from his Democratic rival in the 2008 presidential race, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) today embarked on an historic first-ever visit to the Internet.

Given that the Arizona Republican had never logged onto the Internet before, advisors acknowledged that his first visit to the World Wide Web was fraught with risk.

But with his Democratic rival Barack Obama making headlines with his tour of the Middle East and Europe, the McCain campaign felt that they needed to "come up with something equally bold for John to do," according to one advisor.

McCain aides said that the senator's journey to the Internet will span five days and will take him to such far-flung sites as Amazon.com, eBay and Facebook.

With a press retinue watching, Sen. McCain logged onto the Internet at 9:00 AM Sunday, paying his first-ever visit ever to Mapquest.com.

"I can't get this [expletive] thing to work," Sen. McCain said as he struggled with his computer's mouse, causing his wife Cindy to prompt him to add that he was "just kidding."

Having ****ounced his visit to Mapquest a success, Sen. McCain continued his tour by visiting Weather.com and Yahoo! Answers, where he inquired as to the difference between Sunnis and Shiites.

Sen. McCain said that he had embarked on his visit to the Internet to allay any fears that he is too out-of-touch to be president, adding that he plans to take additional steps to demonstrate that he is comfortable with today's technology: "In the days and weeks ahead, you will be seeing me rock out with my new Walkman."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-borowitz/mccain-makes-historic-fir_b_114002.html

[Mu-Meson]

Yay, the duel of the avatars has begun!

[shocker1]

Reminds me of helping my grand paw with his first computer.


Hahaha almost missed this, the man is way old school. If I hear him say that I will vote for him.

"In the days and weeks ahead, you will be seeing me rock out with my new Walkman."

[ren0312]

My mind struggles to comprehend how he can even work effectively without a computer, considering the fact that he is a Senator of the United States, I mean does he still use a typewritter, facsmile, and a vinyl disk player?

[Zoomie]

My mind struggles to comprehend how he can even work effectively without a computer, considering the fact that he is a Senator of the United States, I mean does he still use a typewritter, facsmile, and a vinyl disk player?

The story's bogus:

Andy Borowitz is a comedian and writer whose work appears in The New Yorker and The New York Times, and at his award-winning humor site, BorowitzReport.com (http://borowitzreport.com/)

After all this is coming from the HuffPo anyways.

[Migman]

The story's bogus... After all this is coming from the HuffPo anyways.

Thanks for ruining the party, Mr. Buzzkillington, sir.


Yay, the duel of the avatars has begun!

Bring it!

[Zoomie]

Thanks for ruining the party, Mr. Buzzkillington, sir.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe everything I read on the internet. :roll:

[maw]

newfag.
send him to /b.

[budgie]

Welcome back thread

[Holycrusader]

...To The Internet

Posted July 21, 2008 | 09:28 AM (EST)

In a daring bid to wrench attention from his Democratic rival in the 2008 presidential race, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) today embarked on an historic first-ever visit to the Internet.

Given that the Arizona Republican had never logged onto the Internet before, advisors acknowledged that his first visit to the World Wide Web was fraught with risk.

But with his Democratic rival Barack Obama making headlines with his tour of the Middle East and Europe, the McCain campaign felt that they needed to "come up with something equally bold for John to do," according to one advisor.

McCain aides said that the senator's journey to the Internet will span five days and will take him to such far-flung sites as Amazon.com, eBay and Facebook.

With a press retinue watching, Sen. McCain logged onto the Internet at 9:00 AM Sunday, paying his first-ever visit ever to Mapquest.com.

"I can't get this [expletive] thing to work," Sen. McCain said as he struggled with his computer's mouse, causing his wife Cindy to prompt him to add that he was "just kidding."

Having ****ounced his visit to Mapquest a success, Sen. McCain continued his tour by visiting Weather.com and Yahoo! Answers, where he inquired as to the difference between Sunnis and Shiites.

Sen. McCain said that he had embarked on his visit to the Internet to allay any fears that he is too out-of-touch to be president, adding that he plans to take additional steps to demonstrate that he is comfortable with today's technology: "In the days and weeks ahead, you will be seeing me rock out with my new Walkman."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-borowitz/mccain-makes-historic-fir_b_114002.html

I found this really funny...

[Createdeemcee]

yeah funny indeed.

Well i just got back from a short vacation to Ocean City maryland. I was doing some souveneer shopping on the boardwalk before i left. I was curious to see how our dwendleing economy has impacted vacation season for Marylander's who frequent the shore. I tell you it was the ugliest visit I have seen since my first visit 22 years ago. But one bright side. I havent seen one Pro MCcain shirt being solicited on the boardwalk, however after I bought my "Barrak is my Homeboy" shirt I asked the vendor where the mccain shirts were , he said "we keep them in the back where they belong" and we laughed together he said for every 10 obama shirts he sells, he will sell one Mccain.

[Killbucket]

http://www.air-sharp.com/vultures.jpg

[seraosha]

yeah funny indeed.

Well i just got back from a short vacation to Ocean City maryland. I was doing some souveneer shopping on the boardwalk before i left. I was curious to see how our dwendleing economy has impacted vacation season for Marylander's who frequent the shore. I tell you it was the ugliest visit I have seen since my first visit 22 years ago. But one bright side. I havent seen one Pro MCcain shirt being solicited on the boardwalk, however after I bought my "Barrak is my Homeboy" shirt I asked the vendor where the mccain shirts were , he said "we keep them in the back where they belong" and we laughed together he said for every 10 obama shirts he sells, he will sell one Mccain.

Because as we all know, marketing t shirts is more important than addressing real issues. But hey, t shirts work for Che...they ought to work for Hussein.

[Winger]

Because as we all know, marketing t shirts is more important than addressing real issues. But hey, t shirts work for Che...they ought to work for Hussein.

LOL. And Che was a tru gangsta style murderer, not that people who wear them would know anything about that or him.

Obama is now being relegated to 'homey' status as if he would want to be identified with the jive talkers(well, strictly for voting purposes). So, if a murderer's face can be responsible for the best selling tshirts eva, Obama's should work wonders for his campaign.

[Createdeemcee]

Because as we all know, marketing t shirts is more important than addressing real issues. But hey, t shirts work for Che...they ought to work for Hussein.

No because numbers dont lie, The masses want whats right. so Majority rules. as you will see on election day.


So, if a murderer's face can be responsible for the best selling tshirts eva, Obama's should work wonders for his campaign.

Guess your right. worked for GWB since he murderd so many young us service members with no regret! and did it with a sticker.

http://www.w04stickers.com/img/StickerLarge.gif

[Winger]

No because numbers dont lie, The masses want whats right. so Majority rules. as you will see on election day.

Yeah, I don't even think the electoral college will be able to save the day on this one. Saying the masses want what's right doesn't always work out though. The masses also want free everything. Our forefathers saw the danger in this. That's why we have the electoral college and why the Senate has equal representation as opposed to the House.




Guess your right. worked for GWB since he murderd so many young us service members with no regret! and did it with a sticker.

If he is guilty then so is the entire chain of command from Lieutenant on up and including representatives and senators. If the Dems win they will take over the ongoing successes and make it appear as their doing. Then, they won't feel so bad about the "murdered" US service members because the Dems acheived victory all on their own :roll:

[Firefly26]

Guess your right. worked for GWB since he murderd so many young us service members with no regret! and did it with a sticker.

It is not murder. Those servicemembers signed up knowing the possibility that they might die for their country and they paid the highest cost. Don't treat them like they were in against their will; it really makes me sick, and discredits their service to the highest degree. It's like calling a dead knight a dead hostage.

[Uber-Pig]

There has been a great deal of hypocrisy of late in relation to Obama's overseas trip. For the last several months, McCain has been attacking Obama on his lack of experience "on the ground" abroad. Now however, when Obama has gone overseas to Isreal, Germany etc, I saw a recent interview with him where he criticized Obama for playing to an overseas audience and making speeches outside the United States, even though McCain was doing the same thing recently in Canada etc.

[Firefly26]

There has been a great deal of hypocrisy of late in relation to Obama's overseas trip. For the last several months, McCain has been attacking Obama on his lack of experience "on the ground" abroad. Now however, when Obama has gone overseas to Isreal, Germany etc, I saw a recent interview with him where he criticized Obama for playing to an overseas audience and making speeches outside the United States, even though McCain was doing the same thing recently in Canada etc.

and it only takes one overseas trip to make an expert? Sh*t, elect me. The point is, this was O's first SIGNIFICANT time, whilst everyone else has been over more than a couple. People are just throwing him a international relations/diplomacy masters for this one trip.

[Zoomie]

No because numbers dont lie, The masses want whats right. so Majority rules. as you will see on election day.
Yeah, just like the democrats in congress have fix everything that you see wrong with Bush?




Guess your right. worked for GWB since he murderd so many young us service members with no regret! and did it with a sticker.
Ah yes, because Bush alone is the one who sent troops to Iraq. :roll:
Keep swinging wildly, maybe you'll hit something!

[seraosha]

lol, It's going to be amusing to see whom or what the anti-bush crowd focus on in the next 4 years...either 4 more years of hating a president, or 4 years of self loathing over whom they voted in.

But hey, they can just say that they wished they could have voted for Ron Paul, so thats a moral hook that's easy to avoid.

[Zoomie]

lol, It's going to be amusing to see whom or what the anti-bush crowd focus on in the next 4 years...either 4 more years of hating a president, or 4 years of self loathing over whom they voted in.

But hey, they can just say that they wished they could have voted for Ron Paul, so thats a moral hook that's easy to avoid.
But it has to be Bush's fault for all of that, somehow! p-)

[Bia]

I'm pretty open in daily life about my support for McCain...
the massive majority of people I speak with say he really has little chance.....will take a miracle.

I am ignorant to polls other news items that show early predictions... are McCains chances dwindling bad or no?

[akd]

They are statiscally even in the polls (for what little they are worth).

[Firefly26]

I'm pretty open in daily life about my support for McCain...
the massive majority of people I speak with say he really has little chance.....will take a miracle.

I am ignorant to polls other news items that show early predictions... are McCains chances dwindling bad or no?

Not really. Not yet at least. But he has to do something soon because this overseas trip seems to have convinced everyone that Obama will be savior of the universe.

[Killbucket]

The American public eats whatever its fed..All bikers wanna rape your sister and mom, right?

Style over substance, it's always been the case.
I'm not Anti-Barak or Anti-John...
But I am seriously anti-More of this mess I've been watching.

What exactly GOT DONE in the past eight years?
Under every stone was another Brownie doing a heckuva job.

I'm a Republican, but it sure isn't easy (reaches for drum of Zantac again).
http://www.air-sharp.com/Zantac_75_Relief_Dissolve_Tablets.jpg

[Uber-Pig]

and it only takes one overseas trip to make an expert? Sh*t, elect me. The point is, this was O's first SIGNIFICANT time, whilst everyone else has been over more than a couple. People are just throwing him a international relations/diplomacy masters for this one trip.

I was not stating that this one trip alone suddenly renders him an expert on foreign affairs. I'm just stating it’s an awfully mixed message to criticize Obama for doing something (taking a trip overseas) that McCain himself had just been doing in Mexico and Canada.

Also, it should be noted this is not Obama's first significant time overseas. He is we should be reminded on the senates Foreign Relations committee and as such has already traveled to Israel, Russia, Jordan and many other foreign locales. It's not really factual to portray Obama as never having left the country before this outing.

[iLikeFlickerstick]

Can someone please help me udnerstand what I'm missing about McCain?

And please get beyond that only a 'War Hero' can lead against terrorism. From where I'm sitting, it looks like McCain doesn't have any of his owns ideas or beliefs and just says and does what he's told. In the exact same way that Bush does.

And in my opinion, if Obama going off and glad handing Europe & Israel 'offends' you or is 'suspicious' to you, it really doesn't matter. He's going to be the American President, If you don't like it, you'll be the minority. He went there to reassure European and Israeli leaders and citizens that when he's president, he intends to work together with them on the War on Terror, enviromental degradation, commerce and poverty.

For McCain to bitch about Obama's trip is really a desperate act, it's obvious. And what a dumb thing to criticize, it helps America anyway you look at it.

[Firefly26]

I was not stating that this one trip alone suddenly renders him an expert on foreign affairs. I'm just stating it’s an awfully mixed message to criticize Obama for doing something (taking a trip overseas) that McCain himself had just been doing in Mexico and Canada.

Also, it should be noted this is not Obama's first significant time overseas. He is we should be reminded on the senates Foreign Relations committee and as such has already traveled to Israel, Russia, Jordan and many other foreign locales. It's not really factual to portray Obama as never having left the country before this outing.

That's why I carefully phrased that with "significant" instead of just first, as all of the other times are not spoken of that much because he was riding in the back seat behind the other more senior senators on the Foreign Relations committee.

The whole reason he chose Germany is because of his stratospheric approval rating there. It doesn't really have anything to do with his capabilities but will act as a springboard because everyone in the states will see how much the liberal environment of Germany loves him and think that he would be a better choice, when actually, this has little to do with the country. Nothing against the Germans though, you guys have very little problems and don't need anything from us. To me, trips to our neighbors in Mexico and Canada have more to do with our domestic policy, and in the meantime, those relationships are more important as we share borders.

[Killbucket]

I bet the guy expires before xmas. He looks awful.

[Zoomie]

For McCain to bitch about Obama's trip is really a desperate act, it's obvious. And what a dumb thing to criticize, it helps America anyway you look at it.
How does it help America? Obama's not our president, so he can't do much to help America, and it's not like he's tried to do anything as senator either.

[Killbucket]

Merkel SMILED about Obama.

Good will is not a tangible.

Anybody doing work that improves America's image "helps America".

Did I mention I'm Republican to the core?
I can't face 4 years of Elmer Fudd.
I will vote for Obama, and deal with any consequence.

McCain is not helping America....he's clearly on board with the GOP, however.

My friends, I want a President, not a Puppet.

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

My friends, I want a President, not a Puppet.

Don't vote Obama then...

Obama's speechwriters are the prime reason for his popularity, not anything Obama has done.

[Abbadon the Despoiler]

I couldnt agree more.
I ve read Obamas bio, his speach in germany and various reports on his plans (eg. supporting US military in Astan). He looks like capable dude.

[Zoomie]

My friends, I want a President, not a Puppet.
Then why vote for Obama?

[Abbadon the Despoiler]

Megaraptor;3415749']Don't vote Obama then...

Obama's speechwriters are the prime reason for his popularity, not anything Obama has done.

and in exactly what aspects is Mccain better than Obama?

[SBL]

Merkel SMILED about Obama.

Good will is not a tangible.

Anybody doing work that improves America's image "helps America".

Did I mention I'm Republican to the core?
I can't face 4 years of Elmer Fudd.
I will vote for Obama, and deal with any consequence.

McCain is not helping America....he's clearly on board with the GOP, however.

My friends, I want a President, not a Puppet.

I tend to think that image only helps when it's an image of power- that way nobody wants to mess with you. People tend to get on board real quick when they stand to lose something.
I'm not convinced Obama's nice-guy act is going to carry much water.

[Zoomie]

and in exactly what aspects is Mccain better than Obama?
He's actually got experience and has accomplished things as a senator, unlike Obama who's laid low so as to not rock the boat.

[Mackie]

BTW:
Guys. I am the only one who's a bit scared about McCains facial expression?
Always, McCain finish a speech he look at the press and show this scary laughter.

[SBL]

BTW:
Guys. I am the only one who's a bit scared about McCains facial expression?
Always, McCain finish a speech he look at the press and show this scary laughter.
I tend to cut him a lot of slack in that department, as most of his mannerisms are a result of his time in captivity.

[Zoomie]

BTW:
Guys. I am the only one who's a bit scared about McCains facial expression?
Always, McCain finish a speech he look at the press and show this scary laughter.
Ah yes, substantial reasons not to vote for him:


He looks funny!
He's too old!
Insert other stupid reason

[Billy No Mates]

I couldnt agree more.
I ve read Obamas bio, his speach in germany and various reports on his plans (eg. supporting US military in Astan). He looks like capable dude.

Yes he is impressing people this side of the Atlantic but were not voting for him,who knows if the approval of PinkoLesboEuros is going to count for or against him back home .

[Killbucket]

Hand Mr. McCain one of Mr. Obama's "greatly written speeches"...
He couldn't deliver it.

Prediction #305:
There will be NO debates. McCain's people know better than to let the American public see him go toe-to-toe with Obama live.
It just won't happen...flat tire, excuse on excuse.
Mark my words on this.

[Stonewall71]

BTW:
Guys. I am the only one who's a bit scared about McCains facial expression?
Always, McCain finish a speech he look at the press and show this scary laughter.


reminds me of this guy, to be honest...
http://www.theforce.net/kids/coruscant/probe_droid/palpatine.jpg

[SBL]

^While it wouldn't surprise me, I can't say I'd blame them, what with all these people making cosmetic issues the basis of their vote.:|

[Abbadon the Despoiler]

seriously I think that the fact that hes too old and has too much connections in the government is bad. hes oldtimer. he may be war hero but he aint good politician. Obama is much more flexible.

[Stonewall71]

^While it wouldn't surprise me, I can't say I'd blame them, what with all these people making cosmetic issues the basis of their vote.:|


I'm European so I should be forgivenp-)

[Createdeemcee]

Ah yes, substantial reasons not to vote for him:


He looks funny!
He's too old!
Insert other stupid reason


Or better yet just not equipped to help the majority of Americans.

[SBL]

seriously I think that the fact that hes too old and has too much connections in the government is bad. hes oldtimer. he may be war hero but he aint good politician. Obama is much more flexible.
No such thing as 'too much connections in the government'. In fact, it's the hallmark of a 'good' politician. That's how things get done in this town.
Don't make the mistake of thinking Obama isn't going to owe some people bigtime if he gets elected.

[Firefly26]

Hand Mr. McCain one of Mr. Obama's "greatly written speeches"...
He couldn't deliver it.

Prediction #305:
There will be NO debates. McCain's people know better than to let the American public see him go toe-to-toe with Obama live.
It just won't happen...flat tire, excuse on excuse.
Mark my words on this.

Actually, it will probably be Obama that will turn down the debates. McCain is much better and more comfortable in those settings and Obama and his people know it. Why do you think he stopped doing them with Hillary? There will of course be the presidential debate which I think will be the final chance for both of them.

[Zoomie]

Hand Mr. McCain one of Mr. Obama's "greatly written speeches"...
He couldn't deliver it.

Prediction #305:
There will be NO debates. McCain's people know better than to let the American public see him go toe-to-toe with Obama live.
It just won't happen...flat tire, excuse on excuse.
Mark my words on this.
Actually McCain has thrown down the gauntlet already and challenged Obama to debate him, and Obama has said anytime, anywhere, but just not now. Obama's the who refuses to do any debates.


Or better yet just not equipped to help the majority of Americans.
And Obama is? He can't even help the people that he represents as a senator, what makes him able to help America?

[akd]

Hand Mr. McCain one of Mr. Obama's "greatly written speeches"...
He couldn't deliver it.

Prediction #305:
There will be NO debates. McCain's people know better than to let the American public see him go toe-to-toe with Obama live.
It just won't happen...flat tire, excuse on excuse.
Mark my words on this.

It was Obama who refused to participate in the debates proposed by McCain.



seriously I think that the fact that hes too old and has too much connections in the government is bad. hes oldtimer. he may be war hero but he aint good politician. Obama is much more flexible.

McCain has been in the House and Senate for 25 years. How does that square with being a "bad politician"? He is also one of the few senators with a long record of effective bi-partisanship. How is that "inflexible"?

[Firefly26]

Obama is much more flexible.

Obama is TOO flexible. That's the main key to why I don't like him. I can't trust him to stick to any hard path at all. It's good to change your mind on a few things, but not everything. You get nothing done that way. I see his managment of military affairs being completely identical to Bill Clinton's. As soon as the liberals start complaining, we are out of there, completely squandering our credibility, becoming paper tigers. The man shows weak intestinal fortitude. It is completely evident in how publicly he reacts to smears and condemning anything that makes him look bad. He would probably divorce his wife to get elected.

[Killbucket]

http://www.theforce.net/kids/coruscant/probe_droid/palpatine.jpg
At least with THAT guy, I know what the wind-up key in his back says on it.

[SBL]

At least with THAT guy, I know what the wind-up key in his back says on it.
Good argument. :roll:

[Killbucket]

http://www.air-sharp.com/mccain_bush_hug_713122.jpg
Ah, PhotoShop. You should see what I've done with Kathy Ireland, but that's another forum.


http://www.air-sharp.com/mccain_iraq_2.jpg

Does he really need a VIP stab-proof vest on here?

http://www.air-sharp.com/bushcodpiece1.jpg
Does he really need...aw, forget it.

If Obama was pic'd like this, he'd be accused of "using" these soldiers.

[iLikeFlickerstick]

I'm not BIG on Obama. He's is obviously owned in the same way the Clinton's are. They ultimately are all puppets like the Republicans. Ron Paul was the only real exception.

But At least Obama is saying the right things. I don't know if he's genuine or not. He is a good actor and has great speechwriters.

But McCain just says all the wrong things. He wants to continue this train wreck with the same empty phrases that really mean nothing. He's been involved in a lot of national security issues but that's not something to be necessarily proud of. That's like saying I've been involved in all the biggest mistakes and f*@k ups.

It's a no brainer to vote Obama over McCain.

[Killbucket]

McCain comes off like one of those old guys who write long, rambling editorials nobody reads.
Like the space-filler in Shotgun News.

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

It was Obama who refused to participate in the debates proposed by McCain.

Yep, McCain wanted 12 debates. Obama wants only two, even though the traditional number is three.

My prediction is that Obama will try and make the debates as scripted as possible.

[Killbucket]

And the whole matter of debates went away, didn't it?
Zero mention in the news since.

[JKD]

Candidates who are behind say they want lots of debates. Those in the lead don't want any more than necessary. That's the way it always is and isn't unique to these candidates or this election.

[Killbucket]

To propose TWELVE debates, on YOUR terms, is unreasonable, and borders on Orwellian behavior.

I think the McCaineys knew it wasn't acceptable, and relied on it being rejected.

No compromise was ever spoken of.

Show's not over!

McCain will drop out for "medical reasons" before it ends.
Look up Melanoma...I wouldn't wish ONE case on anybody, and he's been through it THREE times.
Romney ends up being the quickie replacement, when it's too late to trash him much.

McCain came of age (18) in 1954.
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea was released in theaters.
So was Creature from the Black Lagoon.
Godzilla, anyone?
On the Waterfront.
On a high note, White Christmas closed out the year.
Jackie Chan was born about the same time.

On Feb 10, After authorizing $385 million over the $400 million already budgeted for military aid to Vietnam, US President Dwight Eisenhower warns against United States intervention in Vietnam.

Ahem.

Obama came of age (18) in 1979.
The Muppet Movie is a hit.
I'm seeing the first "Alien" movie.
The Amityville Horror, too.
Moonraker?
Let's not forget "10" with Bo Derek.

On January 4, The State of Ohio agrees to pay $675,000 to families of the dead and injured in the Kent State shootings.

I was 18 in 1980.
The GOP reached a little too far back for me.

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

Western culture is the only culture in the world where age is seen as a disability.

In many other cultures the elderly are valued for their intelligence and life experiences, in Western culture the elderly are looked down upon.

[Zoomie]

To propose TWELVE debates, on YOUR terms, is unreasonable, and borders on Orwellian behavior.

I think the McCaineys knew it wasn't acceptable, and relied on it being rejected.

No compromise was ever spoken of.

Show's not over!

McCain will drop out for "medical reasons" before it ends.
Look up Melanoma...I wouldn't wish ONE case on anybody, and he's been through it THREE times.
Romney ends up being the quickie replacement, when it's too late to trash him much.

McCain came of age (18) in 1954.
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea was released in theaters.
So was Creature from the Black Lagoon.
Godzilla, anyone?
On the Waterfront.
On a high note, White Christmas closed out the year.
Jackie Chan was born about the same time.

On Feb 10, After authorizing $385 million over the $400 million already budgeted for military aid to Vietnam, US President Dwight Eisenhower warns against United States intervention in Vietnam.

Ahem.

Obama came of age (18) in 1979.
The Muppet Movie is a hit.
I'm seeing the first "Alien" movie.
The Amityville Horror, too.
Moonraker?
Let's not forget "10" with Bo Derek.

On January 4, The State of Ohio agrees to pay $675,000 to families of the dead and injured in the Kent State shootings.

I was 18 in 1980.
The GOP reached a little too far back for me.
*yawns* Your point being? You're just being silly when you accuse McCain of being orwellian for proposing debates. He does that because Obama's too afraid to do a single debate. This may be the first presidential race where the candidates never openly debate. And also, quit praying that McCain's health gets worse. It's so poor in taste, and it's pretty pathetic.

[Killbucket]

Point: Most people of voting age have no cultural frame of reference with somebody who is 72 years old.

I propose they have 26 debates.
Why is this unreasonable, and 12 not?

When he habitually starts statements with "My friends,..." I think of Dub Taylor
http://www.air-sharp.com/dub.jpg
Every time. Not a "Go-To" personality.


Saying Mr. O is "afraid" is sounding a lot like arguements made by this guy:
http://www.air-sharp.com/Randy.jpg
Thank you for conceding my point about the debates won't happen.
I can hardly surmise I've convinced you myself, why, other than "the other guy's a wussy" do you agree?

Not hoping, not praying (I don't) just watching the show.
Would you let McCain drive your car? Just asking.

I don't want to come off sounding mean or vindictive.
I didn't start this thread and put the words "McCain" and "rant" in the title.
I haven't photoshopped him killing The Babys.

Google Image Search the word: DOOFUS.
How about "IDIOT"?
-finish off dessert with the word "treason".
Not drawing MY own conclusions, just pointing to the results of
"word-association testing the pubic conscience".

http://www.air-sharp.com/5mccain_bush_hug_300.jpg

Would you have either one take your kids to school?
Manage your investments?
Recommend a broker?
Clean your garage?

http://www.air-sharp.com/_41090708_katrina_ap_416.jpg
Feed your pets while you're away for a few weeks?

Now I've explored TASTE.

[Zoomie]

Saying Mr. O is "afraid" is sounding a lot like arguements made by this guy:
Then why else won't he have any debates?


Thank you for conceding my point about the debates won't happen.
I can hardly surmise I've convinced you myself, why, other than "the other guy's a wussy" do you agree?
I've come to that conclusion based on observations made on Obama on how he's non-confrontational, he's avoided debating Hilary, and he'd rather go abroad political grandstanding than to address anything at home.


Would you let McCain drive your car? Just asking.
Sure, but what does that have to do with the election?



Google Image Search the word: DOOFUS.
How about "IDIOT"?
-finish off dessert with the word "treason".
Not drawing MY own conclusions, just pointing to the results of
"word-association testing the pubic conscience".
Your point being? So what if a bunch of rabid loonies can word bomb google? How will that decide the election?




Would you have either one take your kids to school?
Manage your investments?
Recommend a broker?
Clean your garage?
Feed your pets while you're away for a few weeks?

Now I've explored TASTE.

What does this have to do with the election? It's just silliness.

[JKD]

*yawns* Your point being? You're just being silly when you accuse McCain of being orwellian for proposing debates. He does that because Obama's too afraid to do a single debate. This may be the first presidential race where the candidates never openly debate.
-September 26: First CPD Presidential Debate at the University of Mississippi on domestic policy.
-October 2: Vice Presidential Debate at Washington University in St. Louis on domestic and foreign policy.
-October 7: Second CPD Presidential Debate at Belmont University will be in a town meeting format and will include any issues raised by members of the audience.
-October 15: Third CPD Presidential Debate at Hofstra University on foreign policy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2008#Debates

[akd]

To propose TWELVE debates, on YOUR terms, is unreasonable, and borders on Orwellian behavior.

You mean those mean old McCain terms like unstructured town-hall format, blind questions, independently-selected audience, joint travel, a proposed location for the first debate favorable to Obama, and an offer to work out all future locations between the campaigns? Silly old McCain and his democratic notions about political debate...

http://www.johnmccain.com/downloads/townhallletter.pdf

[JKD]

When you're behind you call for lots of debates. If McCain had been in the lead all this time then Obama would have been calling for debates. It's just smart politics.

If you're ahead, even if you know your sh*t and are a excellent debater, you're not going to increase the odds of publicly putting your foot in your mouth in front of a national audience which can happen to the best of them. If you're behind, it's worth the gamble.

[akd]

When you're behind you call for lots of debates. If McCain had been in the lead all this time then Obama would have been calling for debates. It's just smart politics.

If you're ahead, even if you know your sh*t and are a excellent debater, you're not going to increase the odds of publicly putting your foot in your mouth in front of a national audience which can happen to the best of them. If you're behind, it's worth the gamble.

I never claimed Obama's reasons were not rational. However, they reveal weaknesses, not strengths.

[budgie]

There will be debates - as there always are - and niggling over the details beforehand is trivial.

[shocker1]

Are neighborhoods in this country in need of an Iraq-style "surge"?
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldnewser/images/2008/08/01/ap_mccain_080801_blog.jpg (http://blogs.abcnews.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/08/01/ap_mccain_080801_blog.jpg)
ABC's David Wright checks in after Senator McCain's appearance at the Urban League.
"Answering a question about his approach to combatting crime, John McCain suggested that military strategies currently employed by US troops in Iraq could be applied to high crime neighborhoods here in the US. McCain called them tactics 'somewhat like we use in the military...You go into neighborhoods, you clamp down, you provide a secure environment for the people that live there, and you make sure that the known criminals are kept under control. And you provide them with a stable environment and then they cooperate with law enforcement.' The way he described it, his approach sounded an awful lot like the surge. As part of his argument, McCain praised the crime-fighting efforts of former New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani; Urban League president Marc Morial countered that while New York did experience a drop in crime under Giuliani, there were several major instances of police misconduct. To which McCain promised aggressive prosecution of civil rights violations and a Justice Department free from political cronyism."
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldnewser/2008/08/surge-at-home.html

[signatory]

Sixty-nine percent (69%) of voters have seen or heard news coverage of McCain’s ad including Britney Spears and Paris Hilton. Just 22% believe the ad was racist.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

lol.....what?

[budgie]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldnewser/2008/08/surge-at-home.html

Just part of the Republican "War on Everything" campaign strategy. It's the usual lame military metaphor...

[shocker1]

Just part of the Republican "War on Everything" campaign strategy. It's the usual lame military metaphor...
War on Drugs = more crime and drugs
War on Poverty = more poverty
War on illiteracy = more dumb ass people
you see where I am going.

[akd]

Just part of the Republican "War on Everything" campaign strategy. It's the usual lame military metaphor...

War on Poverty <-- Democrat, 1964
War on Drugs <-- Republican, 1971
War on Cancer <-- Republican, 1971
War on Illiteracy <-- Democrat, 1996
War on the Middle Class <-- Democrat/populist, 2006

[budgie]

War on Poverty <-- Democrat, 1964
War on Drugs <-- Republican, 1971
War on Cancer <-- Republican, 1971
War on Illiteracy <-- Democrat, 1996
War on the Middle Class <-- Democrat/populist, 2006

there's a war on the middle class?

[akd]

there's a war on the middle class?

Lou Dobbs says so. ;)

[Firetxmi]

McCain gets $1,930 a month from 'broken' Social Security system
San Francisco Business Times

Republican presidential candidate John McCain cashes his monthly Social Security checks despite calling the federal program "a disgrace," the Associated Press reports.

"I'm receiving benefits," McCain told campaign reporters, but added, "the system is broken."

In 2007, he received benefits of $23,157 from Social Security, approximately $1,930 a month. The maximum monthly benefit under Social Security is $2,185. Social Security benefits are determined by age at retirement.

McCain, who is 71, has received benefits since he was 65.

Last week, McCain told observers at a town-hall meeting in Portsmouth, Ohio, "Americans have got to understand that we are paying present-day retirees with the taxes paid by young workers ... and that's a disgrace."

B.J. Jarrett from the Social Security Administration said that individuals can refuse retirement benefits.

In 2006, McCain's wife Cindy earned $6 million, and has a net worth of approximately $100 million.


Link: http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/stories/2008/07/14/daily79.html?t=printable

[wildcat]

I don't have a problem, he paid into the system, it is his right. Now for not fixing, I don't know where he stand that a different issue.

[Power_serj]

Social Security is broken....he paid for it, so he has a right to reap the benefits. Just like I have the right to reap the benefits when I get old. I'm just not dumb enough to rely on Social Security as my sole retirement plan. Will there ven be any money left when I retire? Probably not. Because I take the benefits does that mean I think it's a good system? Absolutely not. If I could opt out, I would.

[PeterRJG]

Social Security is broken....he paid for it, so he has a right to reap the benefits. Just like I have the right to reap the benefits when I get old. I'm just not dumb enough to rely on Social Security as my sole retirement plan. Will there ven be any money left when I retire? Probably not. Because I take the benefits does that mean I think it's a good system? Absolutely not. If I could opt out, I would.

You can't opt out it, nor is it refundable. I paid it into for 6 years when I lived in the US and I'm not likely to see a cent of it. I guess I helped fund your retirement, Serj.

[Ordie]

He's entitlied to it.

As for me, I'm planning for a retirement gig.
I'm thinking part time community college teacher or peace corps.

[loganinkosovo]

McCain visiting motorcycle rally, nuke power plant



STURGIS, S.D. - Thousands of motorcyclists greeted Republican presidential candidate John McCain with an approving roar Monday as he sought blue-collar and heartland support by visiting a giant motorcycle rally.
"As you may know, not long ago a couple hundred thousand Berliners made a lot of noise for my opponent. I'll take the roar of 50,000 Harleys any day," McCain said, referring to Democrat Barack Obama's recent visit to the German capital.
Billed as the largest event of its kind in the world, the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally has become something of an annual bikers' Woodstock during the past 70 years. It features nine nights of entertainment, with bands including Def Leppard, Lynyrd Skynyrd and REO Speedwagon.
McCain played to a crowd that paused for a veterans salute. He criticized Obama for supporting a timetable for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq while opposing efforts to reduce record-high energy prices.
"My opponent wants to set a date to come home. I want us to come home with victory and honor so we will never go back again," the Arizona senator said.
McCain also criticized Congress for adjourning for a five-week recess without approving a new energy plan.
"Tell em' to come back and get to work," McCain said, yelling into the microphone. "When I'm president of the United States, I'm not going to let them go on vacation. They're gonna become energy independent."
McCain was accompanied by Sen. John Thune, R-S.D., who has been mentioned as a potential running mate. He had warned the McCain campaign that a politician might receive an unfriendly welcome, but McCain relished the warm embrace.
His wife, Cindy, also paid tribute to the crowd, saying: "I'd like to thank all of you for your support of our troops, and here's why: I'm many things in my life, and one thing I'd like to be is your first lady. But more importantly, I'm Jack McCain's mother and Jimmy McCain's mother, one in the U.S. Navy and another one in the Marine Corps, an Iraqi vet."
Taking back the microphone, McCain joked that he wanted her to enter the beauty contest held at the site, the Buffalo Chip campground on the edge of town.
"I told her with a little luck, she could be the only woman ever to serve as both the first lady and Miss Buffalo Chip," McCain quipped.
Before landing in South Dakota, McCain visited the National Label Co. in Lafayette Hill, Pa. The 97-year-old, family owned business makes labels for products from medicines such as Tylenol to shampoos in the Suave family.
There, McCain focused on energy policy, telling reporters he has outlined an "all-of-the-above" strategy and mocking Obama's suggestion last week for improving automobile mileage, saying: "We're not going to achieve energy independence by inflating our tires."
On Tuesday, McCain aims to underscore his call for expanded nuclear power in the U.S. by touring a nuclear power plant in the battleground state of Michigan. That trip comes a day after Obama laid out his energy vision in a speech, also in Michigan.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080805/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_5

He's looking more Presidential every day. :)

[Winger]

He's entitlied to it.

As for me, I'm planning for a retirement gig.
I'm thinking part time community college teacher or peace corps.

Yup. In the future, being able to really retire without having some post-retirement gig will become harder and harder.

I agree with McCain that its wrong that present payees are being funded by our tax dollars. The purpose of SS was so that the money they paid would be invested for growth and they would get paid from that. Instead, the accounts get raped by Congress the moment they show a credit.

[Killbucket]

McCain, being unable to draw a crowd, shows up where there already is one...
Watch as this becomes his usual M.O.

I bet he had to spend his $1930 on pet food to eat, huh?

I wonder how Cindy did in the "weenie bite" contest.
http://www.bikernewsonline.com/uploaded_images/yuma-prison-run-2006-737624.jpg

what a fitting venue, she must have been SO thrilled...

[loganinkosovo]

http://www.*******.com/article/topNews/idUSWRI65624920080806?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=trueMcCain slams Obama as "celebrity" again in new ad



WASHINGTON (*******) - Republican presidential candidate John McCain (http://www.*******.com/news/globalcoverage/johnmccain) isn't letting Paris Hilton distract him from his new line of attack -- that Barack Obama (http://www.*******.com/news/globalcoverage/barackobama) is more of a celebrity than a leader.
McCain on Wednesday released a second television ad that paints Obama as a celebrity, following an earlier ad that linked his Democratic rival in the November election to tabloid staples like Hilton and Britney Spears.
The new ad avoids any mention of Hilton or other Hollywood types, but covers similar ground.
"Is the biggest celebrity in the world ready to help your family?" the ad asks, over ominous music and slow motion images of Obama appearing before an ecstatic crowd. It says an Obama presidency would lead to higher taxes and fewer jobs while McCain would create jobs and energy independence.
The Obama campaign called the ad misleading and said Obama would provide tax cuts for a greater proportion of Americans than McCain.
"Another day brings another dishonest attack from John McCain (http://www.*******.com/news/globalcoverage/johnmccain)," Obama spokesman Bill Burton said. "It's time to retire these old policies and bring new energy to America."
McCain's first ad, released last week, was widely panned by pundits and denounced as cynical by Obama. McCain staffers believe the approach has helped them wrest control of the news agenda after weeks in which Obama dominated media coverage.
Hilton herself mocked the 71-year-old McCain as a "wrinkly white-haired guy" in an online video in which she jokingly declares her own candidacy and outlines a plan to reduce dependence on foreign oil.
"I want America to know that I'm, like, totally ready to lead," says a swimsuit-clad Hilton in the video, posted Tuesday on the Web site Funny or Die.
McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds said: "Paris Hilton might not be as big a celebrity as Barack Obama (http://www.*******.com/news/globalcoverage/barackobama), but she obviously has a better energy plan."







Obama's little pity party calling everyone Racist and Sexist might have worked if the Dumbass hadn't called himself "Paris Hilton" first!


http://newsbusters.org/blogs/seton-motley/2008/08/04/first-person-compare-sen-obama-paris-hilton-was-not-sen-mccain

McCain Not First to Compare Obama to Paris Hilton

http://newsbusters.org/files/user_pics/picture-22182.jpg (http://newsbusters.org/user/22182)
By Seton Motley (Bio (http://newsbusters.org/bios/seton-motley.html) | Archive (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/seton-motley))
August 4, 2008 - 14:30 ET


http://media.newsbusters.org/graphics/email.png (http://newsbusters.org/forward/23078)
http://media.newsbusters.org/graphics/print.png (http://newsbusters.org/node/23078/print)



http://newsbusters.org/static/2008/08/Paris%20Hilton.jpgCare to Revise and Extend Your Remarks, Sen. Obama?Editor's Note: Update below the fold.
The uproar of the media (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-baker/2008/07/30/nets-agitated-mccains-nasty-childish-anti-obama-attack-ad), serving as (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/scott-whitlock/2008/07/31/abc-throws-fit-about-mccain-celeb-ad-strange-nuclear-attack) adjunct PR firms in defense of their beloved Sen. Barack Obama in response to Sen. John McCain's video comparing the Illinois Senator to Paris Hilton, was deafening. The ad was described as "nasty", "childish" and "juvenile", a "strange" "nuclear attack" for having dared to compare their anointed one to the brainless celebutant hotel heiress.
Sen. McCain and his camp responded that it was all in good fun, and was made only to point out the ridiculous Tiger Beat (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb-staff/2008/08/01/weekend-captionfest)-squealing teenage girl nature of the over-the-top, all-encompassing coverage thus far afforded Obama by his Paparazzi.
But it appears that someone years ago beat Sen. McCain to the comparison punch.

Would all of this overwrought press hysteria be rendered even sillier were it to turn out that Sen. McCain was in actuality quoting Sen. Obama? Methinks that it would.
A February 24, 2005, Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A48523-2005Feb23?language=printer) article begins:

There's nothing exotic or complicated about how phenoms are made in Washington, and, more to the point, how they are broken.

"Andy Warhol said we all get our 15 minutes of fame," says Barack Obama. "I've already had an hour and a half. I mean, I'm so overexposed, I'm making Paris Hilton look like a recluse."That is pretty much the who and the why of Sen. McCain's explanation of his ad, is it not? It turns out he wasn't mocking Sen. Obama so much as channeling him. Or making a mini-documentary out of the Post's article.
Either way, it is just another example of the elite media not liking a Leftist's own words being used against him in the court of public opinion.
Update: Time magazine had the quote as well. From their Verbatim section (http://www.time.com/time/verbatim/20050228/5.html):
http://newsbusters.org/static/2008/08/Barack%20Hilton.jpg





H/t: Of the Capital Research Center, and a fellow NewsBuster, the estimable Matthew Vadum (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-vadum).





IOOPS!

[budgie]

He's looking more Presidential every day. :)

Don't gush - it's girly...

[Bombtrack]

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/GAR4POPPywo

I liked the platypus.

[Solomin]

I think I'm in love.

[Speedor]

http://truckbearingkibble.com/images/comic/12-29-06.jpg

[1911-a1]

I'd vote for him.

[Moledet]

I like it how she squeeze her ****s.

Just don't vote for Hussein.

[budgie]

I like it how she squeeze her ****s.

Just don't vote for Hussein.

You mean the Imam Hussein? Saddam Hussein?

[Hollis]

Link: http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/stories/2008/07/14/daily79.html?t=printable


BFD, he paid for it, why not. OR........ if you pay for something, Can I take home and keep it?


Or if you make more than I, can I have half of your retirement fund?

[Douros81]

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/GAR4POPPywo

I liked the platypus.


I also like the platypus.

[Douros81]

I don't have a problem, he paid into the system, it is his right. Now for not fixing, I don't know where he stand that a different issue.


The problem with SS is this. My Great-grand farther lived until he 96 years of age, he passed away in 1992. He didn't paything into SS but collected it for what almost 50+ years? Thats one of the reasons why it messed up.

[GoSka37]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v180/KevinRyman/bfw_369.png

I personally like the Spitting Image Reagan..

[armchairpundit]

Is it just me or are there more Obama rants in this thread than McCain rants ?

Anyway, here's a nice little piece for your perusal.
http://phoenixnewtimes.com/content/printVersion/848709

[wild_wild_wes]

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/08/021207.php

We appear to be witnessing the resurrection of the Brezhnev era. If so, the news is ominous indeed, for if Vladimir Putin looks like the second coming of Leonid Brezhnev, Barack Obama looks equally like the second coming of Jimmy Carter, whom Brezhnev treated as a lackey. Today the Obama and McCain campaigns both put out statements on the Russian invasion. Politico's Ben Smith (http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080809/pl_politico/12409) contrasts them:

While Obama offered a response largely in line with statements issued by democratically elected world leaders, including President Bush, first calling on both sides to negotiate, John McCain took a remarkably — and uniquely — more aggressive stance, siding clearly with Georgia’s pro-Western leaders and placing the blame for the conflict entirely on Russia.
In case that wasn't clear, he adds: "McCain’s initial statement...put him more closely in line with the moral clarity and American exceptionalism projected by President Bush’s first term."
In another weird echo of the Brezhnev years, Obama adviser Mark Brzezinski-- Zbigniew's son--said, "It’s both sides’ fault — both have been somewhat provocative with each other." Sure. Just like the Czechs provoked the Germans in 1938.
The Russians, needless to say, are not neutral as between McCain and Obama. Ben Smith recounts that Russia's Washington public relations firm contacted reporters to remind them that McCain foreign policy adviser Randy Scheunemann has lobbied for Georgia. Unbelievably, the Obama campaign aligned itself squarely with Vladimir Putin, putting out a statement that echoed the Russian PR firm's:

"John McCain's top foreign policy adviser lobbied for, and has a vested interest in, the Republic of Georgia and McCain has mirrored the position advocated by the government,' said Obama spokesman Hari Sevugan.
In the common sense-free world of Barack Obama, advocating for a fledgling democracy that is trying to align itself with the West and is threatened by the imperial aspirations of Russia constitutes a "conflict of interest."
The McCain camp responded with this statement:

The Obama campaign's attacks on Randy Scheunemann are disgraceful. Mr. Scheunemann proudly represented a small democracy that is one of our closest allies in a very dangerous region. Today, many are dead and Georgia is in crisis, yet the Obama campaign has offered nothing more than cheap and petty political attacks that are echoed only by the Kremlin. The reaction of the Obama campaign to this crisis, so at odds with our democratic allies and yet so bizarrely in sync with Moscow, doesn't merely raise questions about Senator Obama's judgment--it answers them.
The American people once elected Jimmy Carter to defend their interests against Leonid Brezhnev and the Russian Empire. It will be interesting to see whether they are willing to do it again.

Barack Obama has been criticized for acting as though he is already President. That's natural, since the actions in question have been presumptuous: the pseudo-Presidential seal, the speech in Germany, and so on. Today, one might say that John McCain is acting as though he is already President, but in a substantive and positive way. In his response to Russia's invasion of Georgia, McCain is giving us a preview of what sort of President he would be.
McCain has strongly and unequivocally come out in support of our ally Georgia, while placing the onus for the war squarely where it belongs, on Russia. In this, he has aligned himself with our most loyal European allies. Obama, on the other hand, issued the sort of vapid statement that would ingratiate him with the State Department while not requiring any distraction from his Hawaii vacation. An interesting point, by the way: McCain is supposed to be the old guy, but Obama is the one who needs a vacation.
Here is the latest from the McCain campaign:

This afternoon I spoke, for the second time since the crisis began, with Georgian President Saakashvili. It is clear the situation is dire. Russian aggression against Georgia continues, with attacks occurring far beyond the Georgian region of South Ossetia. As casualties continue to mount, the international community must do all it can to avert further escalations. Tensions and hostilities between Georgians and Ossetians are in no way justification for Russian troops crossing an internationally recognized border. I again call on the Government of Russia to immediately and unconditionally withdraw its forces from the territory of Georgia. Given this threat to Euro-Atlantic security, I am pleased to see the United States, the European Union, and NATO acting together by sending a delegation to the region, in an effort to broker a cease fire. This is an important first step.
The United Nations has been prevented from taking any meaningful action by Russian objections. In view of this, I welcome the statements of democratic nations defending the sovereignty of Georgia and condemning Russian actions.
I strongly support the declaration issued by the Presidents of Poland, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, and their commitment that 'aggression against a small country in Europe will not be passed over in silence or with meaningless statements equating the victims with the victimizers.'

I doubt that the Europeans were thinking of Obama when they wrote this, but who knows? Maybe they had seen this "meaningless statement equating the victims with the victimizers" from the Obama campaign:

It’s both sides’ fault — both have been somewhat provocative with each other.McCain's statement continues:

I share their regret that NATO's decision to withhold from Georgia a Membership Action Plan may have been viewed as a green light for aggression in the region. As they propose, a new international peacekeeping force should be created, in light of -- as they observe -- the 'obvious bankruptcy of Russian "peacekeeping operations" in its immediate neighborhood.' In addition, Finnish Foreign Minister Stubb, the Chairman of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, has said there can be no return to the status quo in South Ossetia and that Russia cannot serve as a mediator in the South Ossetian conflict. Each of these leaders represents a country that has undergone what Georgia is now experiencing.That last is a key point, but one that is no doubt lost on Obama and his advisers. It is often said that Obama is not ready to be President, but I don't think this is exactly right. It seems pretty obvious that Obama, given his temperament, his self-regard, his blithe ignorance of history and of the material conditions of life on this planet, will never be ready to be President. He is not unready: he is unsuited for, and inadequate to, the office.

[Createdeemcee]

Is it just me or are there more Obama rants in this thread than McCain rants ?



Many who come here are mil or ex mil. So ofcourse.

[Killbucket]

..I'd start making nice with the new boss.

[budgie]

Many who come here are mil or ex mil. So ofcourse.

I don't think that's the reason so much as many people who come here are Republicans, or identify themselves with 'conservativism'. While it's well-known that the Republicans enjoy more support among the military, they're even more popular among the wannabes...

[armchairpundit]

Many who come here are mil or ex mil. So ofcourse.
So ex mil can't read or what ?

[Firefly26]

So ex mil can't read or what ?

Are you inferring that if we could read that we would suddenly see why there is nothing wrong with Obama? We all have our own reasons and values for supporting our desired candidate and it has nothing to do with literacy.

[armchairpundit]

Nah, I was a bit facetous. Point was that there was two threads, one called Obama rants and one called McCain rants. Naturally the Obama rants thread is much, much larger, which is all fine and natural.

My point is why guys like wes posts Obama rants in this thread when there is a specific thread for that purpose. I mean if it isn't even a retort...

[Firefly26]

Nah, I was a bit facetous. Point was that there was two threads, one called Obama rants and one called McCain rants. Naturally the Obama rants thread is much, much larger, which is all fine and natural.

My point is why guys like wes posts Obama rants in this thread when there is a specific thread for that purpose. I mean if it isn't even a retort...

I see. There is still plenty of McCain-bashing going on in the Obama thread too, so it goes both ways.

[armchairpundit]

Ohh, I see. Well I must admit I haven't read that thread to end yet, because it's quite a bit larger. If those aren't replies/retorts then I find that equally wexing.

[Createdeemcee]

So ex mil can't read or what ?

Not in any way, Its just that Typicly US mil members are far Right wingers. So youll get more of that than anything. If it was more of a public forum you would see totally different additudes.

[budgie]

Not in any way, Its just that Typicly US mil members are far Right wingers. So youll get more of that than anything. If it was more of a public forum you would see totally different additudes.


I dunno if it's fair to call them far-right. The noisiest hawks are either the wannabes or those too chicken$#it to serve themselves but all too willing to send good people into harm's way. I think it's fair to say the military are largely Republican (and various research and voting histories back that up) but I wouln't lump them in with the irrational chest-beaters. While most of the known current/ex-service people here lean toward McCain, I haven't seen any truly stupid crap about Obama coming from them.

[Killbucket]

Far-Right is a lonely place these days.
When I worked at Sears, I was a "Company Man".

When Obama is commander-In-chief, the climate will change here.

I do wish the GOP had gone with a better horse in this race...I WANTED to be loyal to my party, but I can't put my hopes in this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c

He's a mess.

[Winger]

So, what are everyone's thoughts as Tom Ridge for the VP slot? Discuss.....

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/11/campaign.wrap/index.html

[Killbucket]

Tainted. -Got Bush on him, nothing can be done.

[budgie]

moved to other thread

[chauncy republicans]

So, what are everyone's thoughts as Tom Ridge for the VP slot? Discuss.....

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/11/campaign.wrap/index.html
Tom Ridge would further drive conservative republicans into the arms of the libertarian party. Republican strategists believe that McCain will still garner much of the conservative vote, which highlights current republican's arrogant sense of entitlement. Bob Barr is already showing signs of a good year, and possibly will take in 6% to 9% of the vote, siphoning most of those votes from the GOP. Obama shouldn't have a chance in hell considering his dubious associates, past friends, and radical leftist voting record, but the GOP pretty much shot itself in the foot by not giving a true conservative the party nod.

[Killbucket]

...so much math. I think there's a flaw in labeling large blocks of voters at this point, and predicting their behavior. All bets are off this time. There weren't any political seers calculating up a woman, a black man, and an old war prisoner two years ago.

Sometimes it really comes down to simple yes or no.
I used to spend HOURS designing "perfect" speaker enclosures. Harmonics and acoustics are their own sickness, much head scratching involved.
After all the math was done, the results usually hinge on ONE issue: Are there unwanted leaks. No, it works. Yes, it's a mess. The math behind the object became irrelevant to some extent.

So this comes down to ONE binary choice: Like the war? Yes or no.
Do your own informal survey. Bear in mind, those who participate in surveys have their own demographical math.

I wish McCain all the best. Ditto Mr. Obama.
I still think three chess games would tell us more than their rhetorical responses to tamed questioning.

I will have recording media ready, the two of them together will be interesting to study.