Jihad against America, obligation of all Muslims’

[Calanen]

Jihad against America obligation of all Muslims’
* JIP Bajaur commander Wali Rehman says American ‘spies’ to be publicly hanged

Staff Report

KHAR: It is incumbent on every Muslim across the world to fight alongside Afghan Muslims against America, Jaish-ul-Islami Pakistan (JIP) Bajaur Agency commander Wali-ur-Rehman said on Wednesday.

Rehman said it was not un-Islamic to go to Afghanistan for jihad and to defend Afghan Muslims in the war against the United States-led allied forces.

Addressing a press conference at an undisclosed location, he said jihad against the US and NATO forces would continue until they (allies) were driven out of Afghanistan.

He attributed the worsening law and order in Pakistan and its Tribal Areas to the flawed policies of President Pervez Musharraf, which had made Pakistan and its Tribal Areas ****e to the US-led allied forces’ attacks. He said that America was the major terrorist in the world and the biggest enemy of Islam and Pakistan.

Spies: Rehman said those spying for America would be strictly punished and would be publicly hanged to teach others a lesson.

He said one of the spies arrested following the bombing of a Damadola madrassa in May by the US, had been beheaded. He said the JIP had sentenced him to death under the Islamic laws.

Rehman said the death sentence awarded to Afghan citizen Jan Wali was not a human rights violation as several innocent people had lost their lives because of his espionage. He handed over the body of Jan Wali and custody of his 12-year-old son, kept in JIP’s custody for the past one month, to Wali’s family on the occasion.

Jan Wali’s son Muhammad Tahir told reporters that his father was punished for the sins he had committed and he did not feel sad for his death.

US spy planes had killed at least 12 people in a missile strike on Damadola, 20 km northeast of Khar on May 14. Pakistani authorities had launched severe criticism on the attacks, terming them an incursion on its sovereignty. US had “regretted” the attack and had offered Pakistani officials to conduct a joint inquiry into the incident.


Home (http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp) | National (http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=main_3-7-2008_pg7)

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008%5C07%5C03%5Cstory_3-7-2008_pg7_35

[Calanen]

Now who is going to tell this guy that jihad is only supposed to be defensive in Islam? How could he get it so wrong I wonder?

[Excalibur]

look, attack is best defense.
In this respect Jihad is very much like rugby and soccer. :)

[helomech]

Jan Wali’s son Muhammad Tahir told reporters that his father was punished for the sins he had committed and he did not feel sad for his death.

That poor kid has no idea of the mindfvck he's getting from those extemists fvcktards......:-(

[eurekaa]

Now who is going to tell this guy that jihad is only supposed to be defensive in Islam? How could he get it so wrong I wonder?

Calanen ,

The different between the Islamic nation and the west is that the Muslesms do not care much about their borders and the name of their countries or the differences of their languages and race , they feel that they al are brothers ..

If something bad happened to an Islamic country some where on the earth all Muslesm are concern , and feel being responsible to help their brothers ..

So far every thing is fine , but the problem is that the Islamic nations see that their govt are weak or unfaithful to their nations and there is kind of the conspiracy against their Islam/tradition by the west in cooperation with their leaders ..etc

So , they had to defend the Islam them self and their life them-self with out caring to their govt's policies and treaties with other nations .. etc .. why they should to if they betrayed their nation ..

U.S today is involved in a war in the ME ( Afghanistan , Iraq etc ) , also U.S is the main ally for Israel ( their main enemy ) , the whole Moslem's nations think that U.S is the one who is responsible for all the bad they have and their brothers in Palestine do have as well ..

We do not blame or hate the American people them self , but for sure we do when it comes to their policy and politicians .. we believe that the U.S international policy against us is the other face of Israel and all U.S sanctions against us are actually comes by orders from Tel-Aviv .. so who fight U.S troops in Iraq, Afghanistan some how they feel that they fight Israel ..

Specially that Muslems did not see any thing good ( for the Palestinians ) from the U.S role against their issue , all sanctions and their so-called intervention is to the profit if the Israeli side ..

For decades the U.S justify Israeli acts against the Palestinian saying they have the right to defend them self using the Veto right to avoid Israel of any sanctions against them in U.N , and this in the same time the whole world including the west condemned the Jewish state ..

Also U.S says they invade Iraq to bring them the freedom , but the Iraqi and Muslims think that U.S and the west want to free their Oil not their Nation , or to have entity in the region that protect Israel , specially that they did not see the so-called freedom yet , all they see is civilian war with all the known destructions ..

And to be honest , many of Iraqi do support the U.S intervention in their local policy and thier country ( Like Kurds , Many of Shiat who hates Sadam Hussain , Liberators and others )

But also the others and maybe its the majority who does not , and can not live in the shame of being invaded

We can not blame them , ou'll do the same if you were them ..

Now , its not only the Palestinians / Iraqi problem , its the whole Islamic world , because as I mentioned above all Muslems feel responsible to each other ..

thats why all Muslims are involved to the Palestinain/Isrtaeli Issue , and U.S / Me issue ..

And if they feel that they are in war , then for sure they'll call for Jihad ( the holy war to defend Islam ) because this war for them is not more religious then political ,,

Why is that , because they do not believe that the U.S troops are here in the ME because they want to give them the claimed freedom ,, they think they are here to support Israel more , and maybe its the other face of the crusades campaigns .. why not if George W.Bush did use this word in positive way in his speeches against terrorists .. when he said :

"this crusade, this war on terrorism, is going to take awhile."

Click here for reference (http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0919/p12s2-woeu.html)

whats the hell the crusades to do with the war against the terrorists , or his so-called good intentions against the ME etc , this was a very bad message from him to the Moslem's worlds from beginnings !!!

For many of westerns as well they do not see this war in its political form to set Iraqis free etc , no , they see the war of Christians against the Arabians/Muslems

The exact same thing to the Muslems, Calanen , this is what they see it in their side ..

And thats why they call for Jihad .. to gather against the new style of crusades ..

In the end its a war , and as I used to say , this is what we get from the wars .. destructions , hates ..etc

the different between this war and other wars in the past/history with the west is that , its a bit confusing , the intentions really are not clear ..

Thats why you see some or many of ME/Muslims support the U.S and others do not ..

Any way , I have such feeling that if we settle the Israeli / Palestinian issue then the whole world well be fine , and also I believe all the other ME wars around ( Iraq, Afghanistan , Iran and Somali etc ) has something to do or related somehow to the Palestinian / Israeli Issue ..

Many Muslems believe the same i guess . . .



Sorry for the long post ..

[Calanen]

Calanen ,

The different between the Islamic nation and the west is that the Muslesms do not care much about their borders and the name of their countries or the differences of their languages and race , they feel that they al are brothers ..

That's right. The Ummah. Brothers against the infidels the kuffah, which well, includes me. I appreciate your honesty.


If something bad happened to an Islamic country some where on the earth all Muslesm are concern , and feel being responsible to help their brothers ..

Again to some extent, although this 'help' tends to depend on whether its convenient or not. European bankers forgave Iraqi debts. Muslim bankers didnt want to.


So far every thing is fine , but the problem is that the Islamic nations see that their govt are weak or unfaithful to their nations and there is kind of the conspiracy against their Islam/tradition by the west in cooperation with their leaders ..etc

Conspiracy against the Islamic tradition? I don't care what Islamic tradition you have, in the Middle East. You can Taliban boogie down for all I care. But if a group of those nutjobs crashes planes into buildings, then I'm taking the problem home to your place, capesche?



So , they they had to defend the Islam them self and their life them-self with out caring to their govt's policies and treaties with other nations .. etc .. why they should to if they betrayed their nation ..


Ok - that's what I say, there is a doctrine of jihad. The stealth jihad and the active jihad. Whatever the reason, the motivation is religious. And I'm on the other side.



U.S today is involved in a war in the ME ( Afghanistan , Iraq etc ) , also U.S is the main ally for Israel ( their main enemy ) , the whole muslems nations think that U.S is the one who is responsible for all the bad they have and their brothers in Palestine do have as well ..


You might not remember, but a group of people in Afhganistan crashed planes full of civilians into the Pentagon and the World Trade Centre. That is why the US is in Afghanistan. I am sure it would much prefer it didnt have to be.

As for Saddam, he tormented the US from 1991, when they let him stick around after kicking his ass in Kuwait (and freeing muslims brothers I might add) consistently right up until 2003. Saddam also killed about 500,000 other muslims. So trying to say he was your muslim brother that needed to stick around is just BS.

If the muslims that are in Iraq stopped killing each other, Iraq would be a much better place to live. Islamic terrorists in Iraq have killed way more Iraqis deliberately than either the war or collateral damage of the US. These terrorists deliberately target civilian muslims with car bombs and suicide bombs, like marketplaces. The US goes out of its way to avoid civilian casuatlies. But muslims kill other muslims in Iraq, and you blame the US for that? What an Arabic way of viewing things.


U.S says they invade Iraq to bring them the freedom , but they think that U.S and the west want to free their Oil not their Nation , they did not see this freedom yet , all they see is civilian war with all the known distructions ..

And who is running the civilian war? Not the US. Its Iraqi terrorists, Al Quada, Taleban, Hizbollah, Al Quads brigades, Iran, Wahhabi money. How about putting down your weapons and helping rebuild the place. Saddam is gone for good, everyone can do whatever they want in Iraq now. Instead of building things and making money, and having a good life, they just want to kill each other and blow things up. How very very sad. Of course there are many Iraqis in the national guard and police who dont think this way, but why is there any support for terror at all? Its stupid.




To be honest , many of Iraqi support the U.S intervention in their local policy and thier country ( Like Kurds , Many of Shiat who hates Sadam Hussain , Liberators and others )






But also the others and maybe its the majority who does not , and can not live in the shame of being invaded


As opposed to the shame of living under a dictator who killed you for walking past the security buildings, who ruled with two sons that used to have fun raping brides on their wedding night and belittling the groom. Uday used to have an arrangement with primary school principals to send to him the best 12 year old girls for him to rape. And you would prefer that to America? Being ruled by people like that is what would be shameful to me.

If you want to open a business in Iraq you can. If you want to criticise anyone you can. Iraqi people have freedom now, but some use that freedom just to destroy instead of to create a better Iraq.


We can not blame them , ou'll do the same if you were them ..

No, I wouldnt. If I lived under a dictatorship, I'd be praying for anyone to come and save me. If it was the USA, all the better. You can reason with Americans, they wont use suicide bombs to blow you up. Everywhere that America has ever been militarily, they have paid their own money, money frmo their own people, the US taxpayers to rebuild it. The Muslim world that supposedly cares so much about Iraq, where is their money, other than for terror? Why wont the Saudi and Kuwaiti bankers forgive the money that was loaned to Iraq?




Now , its not only the Palestinians / Iraqi problem , its the whole Islamic world , because as I mentioned above all Muslems feel responsible to each other ..


It has nothing to do with Palestine or Iraq. Those are just the latest excuses.



thats why all Muslims are involved to the Palestinain/Isrtaeli Issue , and U.S / Me issue ..


Again just more excuses. There has been jihad since 700AD. Long before Palestine was a problem.


And if they feel that they are in war , then for sure they'll call for Jihad ( the holy war to defend Islam ) because this war for them is not more religious then political ,,

Im getting the feeling that I am at war, and that the stealth jihad is going on behind my lines in my own countries. And you are saying that there is a good reason for that. Good reason or not, it should be crushed.


Why is that , because they do not believe that the U.S troops are here in the ME because they want to give them the claimed freedom ,, they think they are here to support Israel more , and maybe its the other face of the crusades campaigns .. why not if George W.Bush did use this word in positive way in his speeches against terrorists .. when he said :

Support Israel? Are you nuts - what has Israel got to do with Iraq?




"this crusade, this war on terrorism, is going to take awhile."

Click here for reference (http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0919/p12s2-woeu.html)


Crusade, also means, a quest, a task. It doesnt just mean the Crusades of the Middle Ages. But I can tell you this, if the Islamic world keeps going on with the same nonsense, there will be a Crusade. And it wont turn out so well for you.



whats the hell the crusades to do with the war against the terrorists , or his so-called good intentions against the ME etc , this was a very bad message from him to the Moslem's worlds from beginnings !!!


A crusade just means a goal or a quest. George Bush is not even a Catholic, he is a Born Again Christian. Its like saying that a Sunni was promoting the hidden imam.



For many of westerns as well they do not see this war in its political form to set Iraqis free etc , no , they see the war of Christians against the Arabians/Muslems


If it truly was that, then we wouldnt have muslims running the government in Iraq. If a muslim army took over a christian nation, they would make the christians live as dhimmis. Are the Iraqis dhimmis? No.



The exact same thing to the Muslems, Calanen , this is what they see it in their side ..


If that is what they see, then that is dumb. And by thinking that they are just going to bring about their own destruction. Better to forget jihad, and violence.



And thats why they call for Jihad .. to gather against the new style of crusades ..


There is no crusade. But there will be if there is jihad. They may be the author of their own misfortune.

[eurekaa]

That's right. The Ummah. Brothers against the infidels the kuffah, which well, includes me. I appreciate your honesty.


you really have an issue with Islamphobia , Ask any Jews about his opinion about the Christians if they are faithful people who will go to heaven or they are going to hell in the end of this world , the same for Christians that the others ( Jews/Muslems ) or whatever are not going to the Paradise tell they follow Jesus , so we all are infidels to each other ..

But this is does not mean we can not coexist with each other in the world , in Islam at least we believe that the faith is self choice and its prohibited to force any one to follow our religion ..





Again to some extent, although this 'help' tends to depend on whether its convenient or not. European bankers forgave Iraqi debts. Muslim bankers didnt want to.
Its because of the Irani Influence in Iraq I guess , they see that Iraq is turning to Iran side and by the way today Iraq loyalty is to Iran more then U.S ..





You might not remember, but a group of people in Afhganistan crashed planes full of civilians into the Pentagon and the World Trade Centre. That is why the US is in Afghanistan. I am sure it would much prefer it didnt have to be.
And why Taliban/Osama Bin Ladin did that ?

Its because of the U.S support to Israel .. so back again to Israeli/Palestinian issue :)

And yes , they felt sorry for that I believe , also they lost the support of most of Arabians and muslems who used to support them before ..

9/11 is not only a mistake , it was crime and idiot act , the war is against Israel and they attack U.S , they show how idiot and not wise they are ..

Im not sure what happened to their mentality after living for years in war state in the mountains ...



As for Saddam, he tormented the US from 1991, when they let him stick around after kicking his ass in Kuwait (and freeing muslims brothers I might add) consistently right up until 2003. Saddam also killed about 500,000 other muslims. So trying to say he was your muslim brother that needed to stick around is just BS.
Tormented U.S or Israel ?

You must know that U.S could do nothing to Saddam if their Allies did not support them .. Sadam fight the whole world not only U.S ..

And claiming that he killed 500K of his people is questionable , you must know that they have civil war for 30 years and most of people died in Irani/Iraqi war .. alot of Iraqi Shiite take the side of Irani and support them against their nation for religious reasons ..

All the U.S did in Iraq is to give it as a gift to Iran .. did you hear the last speech of Iraqi PM Maliki after his last visit to Iran ,,

Beleive me dear , this is our region and I think today U.S know the mistake they did .. Iran/Iraq today are the same ..



If the muslims that are in Iraq stopped killing each other, Iraq would be a much better place to live. Islamic terrorists in Iraq have killed way more Iraqis deliberately than either the war or collateral damage of the US. These terrorists deliberately target civilian muslims with car bombs and suicide bombs, like marketplaces. The US goes out of its way to avoid civilian casuatlies. But muslims kill other muslims in Iraq, and you blame the US for that? What an Arabic way of viewing things.
At Saddam time they did not kill each other because he did not allow them by force , at least not that much , but today you gave them the freedom to do so ..

Its a shame to say so about my people , but this is the truth




As opposed to the shame of living under a dictator who killed you for walking past the security buildings, who ruled with two sons that used to have fun raping brides on their wedding night and belittling the groom. Uday used to have an arrangement with primary school principals to send to him the best 12 year old girls for him to rape. And you would prefer that to America? Being ruled by people like that is what would be shameful to me.
What fairy tale books you read , and you tell me you study economical history , did not they teach you about sources and from where to get your information .. these stuffs ignorant public people may say it in markets and streets , etc .. but not educated person ..




No, I wouldnt. If I lived under a dictatorship, I'd be praying for anyone to come and save me. If it was the USA, all the better. You can reason with Americans, they wont use suicide bombs to blow you up. Everywhere that America has ever been militarily, they have paid their own money, money frmo their own people, the US taxpayers to rebuild it. The Muslim world that supposedly cares so much about Iraq, where is their money, other than for terror? Why wont the Saudi and Kuwaiti bankers forgive the money that was loaned to Iraq?
Maybe you wouldn't , but this is does not mean all your nation will do the same , and this is what I mentioned about Iraq , we have people in Iraq and ME who support U.S role in their country and they are many , but others do not as well ..



It has nothing to do with Palestine or Iraq. Those are just the latest excuses.
This what I believe , Im not saying all I say is right , its just my POV




Support Israel? Are you nuts - what has Israel got to do with Iraq?
Iraq was a threat to Israel under Sadam role , and its worse now to them with their relation to Iran ..

This is the fact ...



Crusade, also means, a quest, a task. It doesnt just mean the Crusades of the Middle Ages. But I can tell you this, if the Islamic world keeps going on with the same nonsense, there will be a Crusade. And it wont turn out so well for you.

A crusade just means a goal or a quest. George Bush is not even a Catholic, he is a Born Again Christian. Its like saying that a Sunni was promoting the hidden imam.
Well , Mr. Bush in his apologize did not say that or justified it that way ..



If it truly was that, then we wouldnt have muslims running the government in Iraq. If a muslim army took over a christian nation, they would make the christians live as dhimmis. Are the Iraqis dhimmis? No.
By the way , did you read my reference to you about the Dhimmi in this forum ?

click here for reference.. (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3355723&postcount=93)

Its Just to know our pov against the Dhimi according to our Islamic concepts , its not that perfect according to the new world regime , but also its not that bad as you may think or they tell you in your place ..




There is no crusade. But there will be if there is jihad. They may be the author of their own misfortune.You tend to use threats :) , why it should be the misfortune of them not yours if this is the case ..

See Calnen , there is a warrior inside you that tend you to feel proud or the power of your nation/culture where you believe the victory will be your side always because of ( i do not know what etc ) like other people from other nations do , specially Muslems / Jews they tend to these things as well :) ..

let back to reality ..
we do not have to support that ..

[IDF_TANKER]

Iraq was a threat to Israel under Sadam role , and its worse now to them with their relation to Iran ..


So basically US invaded Iraq because it was threat to Israel?

[Excalibur]

Those "moderate" muslims have a real problem.
On the one hand they have no desire to face and fight islamic fundamentalism/terror/fascism, on the other hand they are very ambitious to be part of the civilized world and that's where wars in afganistan, iraq, arab-israeli conflict come to help. without those wars they couldn't justify or at least explain the existance of islamic terror. The last thing they are willing to do is admitting that "War between Civilizations " was here long ago.

[PeterRJG]

So basically US invaded Iraq because it was threat to Israel?

Shhh, don't give that conspiracy theory an airing. p-)

[eurekaa]

So basically US invaded Iraq because it was threat to Israel?


Shhh, don't give that conspiracy theory an airing. p-)

Shoot me to believe so :)

[Excalibur]

actually, the first gulf war started because of israel as well. all that story of iraqi occupation of kuwait was the zionist conspiracy and freeing kuwait served just as an excuse. you see, gulf sheikhs and saddam lived in peace and harmony.

[madjack]

Here's an excerpt from a great article in The American Thinker. Th 20 minutes or so it takes to read it will help with understanding Eureka.

Cheers,
Jack

July 06, 2008
The Struggle for Civilization
By Jack Lott
The "War on Terror" is over, even as combat with terrorists continues. Like the "Wars" on Drugs and Poverty, it lingers on the back pages and the TV equivalent, the highbrow channels like Discovery and History. Meanwhile, the Department of Defense quietly gears up for the "long war" that is essential to countering the enemy. The gulf between public perception and the grim reality couldn't be greater or more important to bridge. Public boredom with the combat should not displace the importance of understanding and dealing with conflict within the Muslim world.
Seven years is a long time for the American public but a short time for the enemy. We need to explore the reality of the current conflict before the phrase "9/11" slips from our memory, like "Pearl Harbor," becoming something kids Googleâ for a school assignment in history. This war includes a major propaganda battle, which we are on the way to losing. Americans have trouble with ambiguity and complexity in public issues and an inherent skepticism of government statements. They have little interest in things foreign, especially if discussion requires some knowledge of another language. The domestic political wrangling over Iraq illustrates how far the public and much of the government and media elites are from understanding the real war.

The enemy in a slogan war is a condition, not an organization, so it cannot be defeated in the military sense. Warfare is the wrong metaphor for the sustained effort it takes to reduce recreational drug use, redistribute wealth or protect civilians from intentional combat injury. The confusion surrounding "The War on Terror" exists because the phrase was painted over a real war initiated by real enemies with real objectives. It took the 9/11 attacks to get America's fleeting attention to the real decades-old conflict within Islam. America has paid scant attention to terrorists killing modern people in Bali, England, and Spain, and even less attention to them killing developing people in Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, Philippines, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Turkey, and Yemen, where control of these people is the enemy's objective.


Jack Lott teaches courses on intelligence, globalization, and terrorism for the Christopher Wren Association at the College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia.

Here's the link: http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/07/the_struggle_for_civilization.html

[IDF_TANKER]

Shhh, don't give that conspiracy theory an airing. p-)

Man, I'm just truly curious to know what would be our alleged reasons to attack Iraq and not, say, Iran who has been sponsoring our worst enemy in the last 20 years, Hezbollah. Or why not Lebanon, for the same reason? Why would we want US to attack a secular Sunni regime (as evil as it was) which was effectively neutralizing Iranian(again, our worst enemy) influence in ME (at least, to an extant)? Since Iraq has been invaded the situation in ME became objectively worse for us. If anything US invading Iraq and not Iran only proved that the Israeli lobby apparently is not as all-mighty as many people would like to believe.


Shoot me to believe so :)
This is exactly your problem. Leave your beliefs for your religion. When you are examining the reality try to rely on the facts and the logic.

[Calanen]

you really have an issue with Islamphobia ,

It's interesting that you use the term Islamophobia, when you borrowed it from a group you actually hate more than the infidels - gays. They successfully marketed the term Homophobia, and you stole the idea from them. So, you have stolen a marketing idea from the homo****** lobby - I imagine the imams never thought of it that way.

Not that I am afraid (what is there to fear but death itself which is inevitable anyway? Perhaps the manner of death) but phobias are irrational fears. It is quite rational to be afraid of people who pilot civilian aircraft into buildings.



Ask any Jews about his opinion about the Christians if they are faithful people who will go to heaven or they are going to hell in the end of this world , the same for Christians that the others ( Jews/Muslems ) or whatever are not going to the Paradise tell they follow Jesus , so we all are infidels to each other ..


Im not a Christian, or a Jew. I think all religions are equally useless. What makes Islam the most dangerous is its desire to slay everyone that does not believe what it does. Or, yes, let them live as a slave under muslim overlords...


But this is does not mean we can not coexist with each other in the world , in Islam at least we believe that the faith is self choice and its prohibited to force any one to follow our religion ..

Yes it is. But its not prohibited to kill them, or sell them into slavery. Or rape their women. Conquered infidels must either die, convert, or live as dhimmis, or be sold into slavery. Living as dhimmis is as a second class citizen. I dont want to live as a dhimmi, even if it means, that I dont get beheaded. I know all about dhimmis. You need not 'educate' me any further.



Its because of the Irani Influence in Iraq I guess , they see that Iraq is turning to Iran side and by the way today Iraq loyalty is to Iran more then U.S ..


Maybe - who knows. I doubt it however. Iraq fought against Iran for 8 years.



And why Taliban/Osama Bin Ladin did that ?

Its because of the U.S support to Israel .. so back again to Israeli/Palestinian issue :)


That's crap. Osama couldnt give a rats about Palestine. He is all about jihad against the infidels. Jihad since 700 AD, long before Palestine or anything else. Its not a new idea he just dreamt up.



And yes , they felt sorry for that I believe , also they lost the support of most of Arabians and muslems who used to support them before ..

9/11 is not only a mistake , it was crime and idiot act , the war is against Israel and they attack U.S , they show how idiot and not wise they are ..


The Arabs should really give up on Israel. They keep getting their asses kicked every 20 years or so and still go back for more. Its like sado masochism.



Tormented U.S or Israel ?

The US. Israel just ignored him, and blew up his reactor in 1984.




You must know that U.S could do nothing to Saddam if their Allies did not support them .. Sadam fight the whole world not only U.S ..


The US could have taken Iraq and held it by themselves if they wanted to. Allies made it easier however, but they didnt *need* them strictly.


And claiming that he killed 500K of his people is questionable , you must know that they have civil war for 30 years and most of people died in Irani/Iraqi war .. alot of Iraqi Shiite take the side of Irani and support them against their nation for religious reasons ..

No, its not. Its pretty well documented.



All the U.S did in Iraq is to give it as a gift to Iran .. did you hear the last speech of Iraqi PM Maliki after his last visit to Iran ,,


Yes. he wants to get along with Iran so they dont keep filling his country with bombs and guns. Sounds sensible to me.


Beleive me dear , this is our region and I think today U.S know the mistake they did .. Iran/Iraq today are the same ..

It looks like the US has won now. The terrorists thought they would wear the US down. The US wore them down.



At Saddam time they did not kill each other because he did not allow them by force , at least not that much , but today you gave them the freedom to do so ..


Saddam killed loads of his people. Shooting. Beheading. Loading them into woodchippers.




What fairy tale books you read , and you tell me you study economical history , did not they teach you about sources and from where to get your information .. these stuffs ignorant public people may say it in markets and streets , etc .. but not educated person ..


They are not fairy tales. Would you call Time Magazine a book of fairy stories?

It's amazing how Arabs always ignore tales of Arabic brutality and defend even the indefensible.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030602-454453,00.html




A chef at Baghdad's exclusive Hunting Club recalls a wedding party that Uday crashed in the late 1990s. After Uday left the hall, the bride, a beautiful woman from a prominent family, went missing. "The bodyguards closed all the doors, didn't let anybody out," the chef remembers. "Women were yelling and crying, 'What happened to her?'" The groom knew. "He took a pistol and shot himself," says the chef, placing his forefinger under his chin.
Last October another bride, 18, was dragged, resisting, into a guardhouse on one of Uday's properties, according to a maid who worked there. The maid says she saw a guard rip off the woman's white wedding dress and lock her, crying, in a bathroom. After Uday arrived, the maid heard screaming. Later she was called to clean up. The body of the woman was carried out in a military blanket, she said. There were acid burns on her left shoulder and the left side of her face. The maid found bloodstains on Uday's mattress and clumps of black hair and peeled flesh in the bedroom. A guard told her, "Don't say anything about what you see, or you and your family will be finished."





Maybe you wouldn't , but this is does not mean all your nation will do the same , and this is what I mentioned about Iraq , we have people in Iraq and ME who support U.S role in their country and they are many , but others do not as well ..


If there was a dictatorship here as ruthless as Saddams, people would be glad it was gone.



Iraq was a threat to Israel under Sadam role , and its worse now to them with their relation to Iran ..


Sort of. But if he was going to do anything about it, he would have. He was more a pain in the ass for America who wanted him gone.


Well , Mr. Bush in his apologize did not say that or justified it that way ..

There would have been no point.



By the way , did you read my reference to you about the Dhimmi in this forum ?


Yes. Doesnt change anything. I dont want to be a dhimmi under sharia, no matter how good you think it is.




You tend to use threats :) , why it should be the misfortune of them not yours if this is the case ..


Not threats - I am just saying that if the muslim world keeps wanting war with the infidels, they will eventually find it. And that would not go so well for them.


See Calnen , there is a warrior inside you that tend you to feel proud or the power of your nation/culture where you believe the victory will be your side always because of ( i do not know what etc ) like other people from other nations do , specially Muslems / Jews they tend to these things as well :) ..

The difference with me is, I am not religious. I honestly do not care what muslims do in the Middle East, as long as they don't interrupt the oil supply. Kill each other, blow each other up as much as you like, fire guns in the air until you run out of ammo. But you've brought all this crap into our home now, and I aim to see it leave.

I dont want to slay the unbelievers, you can believe whatever you like. But dont attack my institutions, my way of life, conduct stealth jihads and terror jihads. I dont want any war, or any conquest of anyone for any God or anything else. I just want the West to be left alone, and leave Europe the way Europe is, America the way America is, and Australia the way Australia is. And not see the stealth jihad be instituted.

People say there is no stealth jihad, look at all the muslim organisations involved in this stealth jihad, from a government document in the Holy Land trial:

http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/misc/20.pdf

Anyone who doesnt believe there is an explicit stealth jihad project afoot should read that.



The process of settlement is a "Civilization-Jihadist Proecess" with all the word means. The Ikhwan must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions. Without this level of understanding, we are not up to this challenge and have not prepared ourselves for Jihad yet. It is a Muslim's destiny to perform Jihad and work wherever he is and wherever he lands until the final hour comes, and there is no escape from that destiny except for those who chose to slack. But, would the slackers and the Mujahedeen be equal.


This is going on and I know it is going on. We have idiots within our own countries who support it or deny its existence. But their voices will become fewer in number over time, as people wake up.

[Alexandr]

I just want the West to be left alone, and leave Europe the way Europe is, America the way America is, and Australia the way Australia is. And not see the stealth jihad be instituted.



Cant you understand where from that stealh jihad in non-arabic terretories growns?Its a part of globalisation and democratisation,child of freedom.Who to blame for that?
When Europe was mean slaves trader - there was no possibilites for silent jihad,becouse middle-age Christianity was the same as Islam today - mass killing,torturing,terror in the name of God.
Wich Europe you like more?Weak wussies liberal swamp ready to bove to islamistics or middle-age Christian terroristic punishers with name of God on their weapon?
Be more realistic....

[AmericanAirman]

I thought I read something on hear that said OBL ordered 9/11 because the US put non-muslim boots onto Saudi soil?

And eurekaa - the term 'crusade' is used all the time in the U.S., you just don't understand the meaning as it is used here.

It's time for muslims to stop hiding behind 'Islamic law' and begin to own up to Human Rights that all of us have been guaranteed (I believe by God) and deserve to give to one another, for we all entered this world the same way.

[eurekaa]

It's interesting that you use the term Islamophobia, when you borrowed it from a group you actually hate more than the infidels - gays. They successfully marketed the term Homophobia, and you stole the idea from them. So, you have stolen a marketing idea from the homo****** lobby - I imagine the imams never thought of it that way.


I did not know that , thanks :)

By the way even if I do not agree with you in many things and most of times I see that you are aggressive or exaggerate things against us , but I do like to talk with you , and read your informative posts ( even these which I deny ) . if did not agree with you it does not mean its not good points ..




Im not a Christian, or a Jew. I think all religions are equally useless. What makes Islam the most dangerous is its desire to slay everyone that does not believe what it does. Or, yes, let them live as a slave under muslim overlords...
Sorry to ask , but im interested to know about that , or if you do believe in god at least ..

maybe to discuss another time ..




Yes it is. But its not prohibited to kill them, or sell them into slavery. Or rape their women. Conquered infidels must either die, convert, or live as dhimmis, or be sold into slavery. Living as dhimmis is as a second class citizen. I dont want to live as a dhimmi, even if it means, that I dont get beheaded. I know all about dhimmis. You need not 'educate' me any further.
Its also prohibited to kill them , it means you did not read the refferance I posted , please read it again specially where I quote our prophet words to us regarding the Dhimies , or those who wrong them ..




Maybe - who knows. I doubt it however. Iraq fought against Iran for 8 years.
Iraq is divided to many races and sects , the Iran Islamic rep represent the Shiite in the world , and all/most Shiite in Iraq ( 30%- 40% ) were against the war .. and their loyalty for sure to Iran ..




That's crap. Osama couldnt give a rats about Palestine. He is all about jihad against the infidels. Jihad since 700 AD, long before Palestine or anything else. Its not a new idea he just dreamt up.
In few words
No , not true ..

Did you meet people who went to Afghanistan , or fought there etc , have you been close to these people ?

Well , we did and im telling you its not the case ..




The Arabs should really give up on Israel. They keep getting their asses kicked every 20 years or so and still go back for more. Its like sado masochism.
This is between Arabs and Israel , I hope they settle it soon , the problem today is not about Israel itself , there are religiouse issue between both sides specially regarding Jerusalem , if its settled then every thing would go fine .. its not political issue as much as religious .. its for both sides ..

If you are not religious you`ll not know how important Jerusalem for both of them and to Christians too ..

For me I hope if this City to be powered by any international authority who represent all main 3 religions , so every one is happy ..

But once i said that the guys from Israel started to mock at me and critic the idea .. they won the war why they should let it go , well they are right , but this way they'll never get peace , and to won the war does not mean it ended , there will be another wars .. which I do not want for our future ..



The US could have taken Iraq and held it by themselves if they wanted to. Allies made it easier however, but they didnt *need* them strictly.
No they can not , not even Afghanistan with out their allies help , The Russian with their developed military could not and lost the war in Afghanistan and they where more rough then the Americans .. you know Russians :)

or maybe you are saying the truth , who know , we just need to see it in another war where the Arabians and Muslems wont support the U.S ..

With Iran for example .. because in this war the U.S and Israel will face Iran alone ..



No, its not. Its pretty well documented.
referral please




Saddam killed loads of his people. Shooting. Beheading. Loading them into woodchippers.
hmm ,
Saddam was the best who ruled Iraq , you'll not understand the nature of this country Calanen , now they got the freedom they want and they`ll exterminate them self ..

Unfortunately he was a dictator but he loved his country and did not betrayed them

Personally I met Shiite people who faced the torture in Saddam prisons to support Iran during the war who lived their with their familie , for more then 15 years and then sentenced to penalty of death , some of their families put to death and those who I met survived after they ran out the country ..

It was terrible I do not deny it , and now its worse ..

And not every thing happened in Saddam time was done in his orders , many things he did not want to or know a thing a bout it , his system was corrupted ..

Iraqi people did their beset to kill them self in Saddam time and after he left ..

Maybe now with all these death and destruction you see in Iraq last 5 years you'll understand it was not Saddam's fault for all those who died in his time .. Yes he was a ruthless ruler , but it was because of the nation that split on them self that he ruled ..

Im not saying Iraqi People are bad nation , on the contrary , Its a great nation with different cultures , religion and races who just can not live with each other .. and also can not live separate from each other , and in the same time all of of them want to rule and take the whole Iraq for them self . .

U.S and their allies open the hell's gate by invading Iraq and taking Saddam down ..


By the way Calanen ,

Today , UAE cancels Iraq's debt of $7 billion (http://uk.*******.com/article/worldNews/idUKL0655499820080706), I remember you were asking about why Arabians do not dropp their debts to Iraq and the west did , this in morning and I told you that because of the Irani influences in the area .. seems I was wrong some how

[kamaz]

But this is does not mean we can not coexist with each other in the world , in Islam at least we believe that the faith is self choice and its prohibited to force any one to follow our religion ..



priceless.

really now. faith is a choice?

care to peddle any more of your bullsh1t?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam


Apostasy in Islam (Arabic: ارتداد, irtidād or ridda) is commonly defined as the rejection of Islam in word or deed by a person who has been a Muslim.

The four major Sunni and the one major Shia Madh'hab (schools of Islamic jurisprudence) agree that a sane adult male apostate must be executed.[1] They differ on the punishment for a female apostate - some schools calling for death and others for imprisonment. Whether Sharia laws governing apostasy are derived from the hadith traditions alone or also from the Qu'ran is disputed. According to Wael Hallaq nothing of the apostasy law are derived from the Qur'an,[2] although the jurist al-Shafi'i interpreted the Qu'ranic verse 2:217 as providing the main evidence for apostasy being a capital crime in Islam.[3]



what choice. remain a muslim and be part of the glorious 'ummah' that wants to turn the kuffars into True believers, or actually make a sane choice of choosing your faith, and be killed for it.


eurekaa, how can you say anything with a straight face? does it not embarass you to flatly lie about your religion?

[LaoSexMachine]

Jihadis= Playa Haters.

[kamaz]

Saddam was the best who ruled Iraq , you'll not understand the nature of this country Calanen , now they got the freedom they want and they`ll exterminate them self ..

Unfortunately he was a dictator but he loved his country and did not betrayed them
..


I dont even know what to say to a person who spews this kind of rubbish. I feel like we are living on 2 different planets, 2 different realities.

[AmericanAirman]

It seems eurekaa gets ripped apart in every argument, sorry to contribute but; comparing the Soviet invasion to the US-led invasion of Afganistan is just false. Soviet's were after the whole country, we're just after the terrorists. And in Iraq we could have used more of our own firepower but it had to be a coalition to go in to look better then just the States attacking Iraq. And once again, in Iraq we went after the regime and Saddam not to take over the country as our territory.

[BloodyTalon]

I dont even know what to say to a person who spews this kind of rubbish. I feel like we are living on 2 different planets, 2 different realities.
You know how they say: "it is better to be a free man in Hell than a slave in Heaven"? I guess for eurekaa its "it is better to be a slave in Hell than a slave in Heaven." Talk about someone with a low opinion of his people.

[eurekaa]

I thought I read something on hear that said OBL ordered 9/11 because the US put non-muslim boots onto Saudi soil?

And eurekaa - the term 'crusade' is used all the time in the U.S., you just don't understand the meaning as it is used here.




Maybe , but for us its translated to one meaning by our media , maybe they mislead us , but also I did not see that Bush deny the meaning we got in his apologize ..let him to say this to us



It's time for muslims to stop hiding behind 'Islamic law' and begin to own up to Human Rights that all of us have been guaranteed (I believe by God) and deserve to give to one another, for we all entered this world the same way.


totally agree , whatever our religion is ( Islam , Christian , Jewdism ) well see these concepts of humanity in all holy books which is guaranteed by god ..

Its just many of people do not understand it , or misuse it ..


It seems eurekaa gets ripped apart in every argument, sorry to contribute but; comparing the Soviet invasion to the US-led invasion of Afganistan is just false. Soviet's were after the whole country, we're just after the terrorists. And in Iraq we could have used more of our own firepower but it had to be a coalition to go in to look better then just the States attacking Iraq. And once again, in Iraq we went after the regime and Saddam not to take over the country as our territory.

AmericanAirman ,

Why not to read all my posts first ..

I also did said that the U.S intention against Iraq is a bit confuisng for us as well , and thats why not all Iraqi resist your invasion , some / alot of them do support it in other hand ..

We are just chatting talking , and trying to read each other , thats it :)

As for the other guys from Israel I do understand their opposed posts against me , and I do not blame them , we just have allergy against each other ..

[RoyB]

Don't worry, I can feel it, they'll soon run out of jihad.

[Alexandr]

comparing the Soviet invasion to the US-led invasion of Afganistan is just false.
I complitely agry,we were only after uranium ore,you were after uranium ore+opium+natural gas . :)

[BloodyTalon]

I colplitely agry,we were after uranium ore,you were after uranium ore+opium+natural gas . :)
Yeah, it had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. :roll:

If you actually bothered to look at the economy of Afghanistan, you'd realize that the natural gas and other resources there are so small in number that it only makes up 10% of their economy. ****, we might as well have invaded Canada if we wanted uranium and oil.

As for the poppy...let me put it this way; do you honestly think that it makes sense that we invade a country halfway across the world to grow poppy when we can just as easily do it in California for the vast expanse of flyover country here?

[Alexandr]

Yeah, it had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. :roll:

Who tell no one cant fight enemyes of the State and doing buisness at same time?
Im not blaming anyone,we did same in Chechnya with Chechen oil,and tryed to do in Afganistan but failed,couse not count possiblites of opium buisness.
Who thougts that opium production can be rised to 150 %,like it happens in 2002-2007 years.
Damn Soviet slow-thinking analysts!


when we can just as easily do it in California for the vast expanse of flyover country here?

No, you cant,its forbiden by laws =) But somwhere,in wild-wild east...

[wicked_hind]

Unfortunately he was a dictator but he loved his country and did not betrayed them


So while most Iraqis were sick, and dying of illness and starvation, Saddam uses billions earned in the U.N.'s Oil For Food Program to build more palaces. While millions of Iraqis were scraping the bottom of the barrel to make it through the day, Saddam was living in splendor. And you're trying to tell us he didn't betray them? You come ask any Iraqi who lives here in the U.S. about their opinion of a man whom you say didn't betray them. Better yet, go tell them how he was the best leader or Iraq, as you put it.

Or did you forget about hundreds of thousands of Iraqis that danced and celebrated after Saddam was hanged?

[Vorian]

Yeah, it had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. :roll:




It looked more like US picking a country known to harbor Jihadis and "coincidentally" geostrategically important and accusing them of harboring Osama.
We have as much evidence about Bin Laden in Afghanistan as for WMDs in Iraq. Just some reports.

Bush administration clearly used 9/11 as a pretext (I don't mean they are responsible for it, like conspiracy maniacs just that they exploited the political climate it created) that washes their hands of any action and gives them right to attack countries that 'might' be a threat.

Now, how the 'potential threats' are chosen....look at Iraq.

[eurekaa]

I thought I read something on hear that said OBL ordered 9/11 because the US put non-muslim boots onto Saudi soil?

And eurekaa - the term 'crusade' is used all the time in the U.S., you just don't understand the meaning as it is used here.

It's time for muslims to stop hiding behind 'Islamic law' and begin to own up to Human Rights that all of us have been guaranteed (I believe by God) and deserve to give to one another, for we all entered this world the same way.


I complitely agry,we were only after uranium ore,you were after uranium ore+opium+natural gas . :)

Oops ,
great to hear Russians here ..
As much as I hated your country in the past 18 years ago , is the same I do love , like and respect your nations/people today ..

Strange , right ,,!

At this time you were our enemy ( because of Afghanistan issue ) , and our media used to increase the hostility inside us against you , and it was the same your side I believe ..

But today , we are close to each other ( personally I have business with Russians ) and Ironically I found that there are many things in history including the fairy tales we tell our children are in common between our cultures which I did not know about it before ..

[Alexandr]

Nice to hear that Eurekaa.
Sorry for OT,but guys,you see same commercial banner as i do, in bottom of page?
It shows smiling east woman,and words "Humsafar se mullaaqat ab aasaan!" " Join Free!"
O_o

[Ulytau]

Before Soviet Union split up there was blames aganist em everytime..

Never forget a quote from the Mehmet Ağar (His carieer; Chief of the Police,Minister of Justice,Minister of Internal Affairs)

''We were always thinking Soviet Union supportin' extreme leftist groups but truth was the totally different''

Of course opium not big deal for the American Economy but whats about the persons?

About Iraq War,Saddam and Iraq issue ''No End in Sight'' can be great documentary movie for answerin EVERYTHING..Terror threatin every people this is truth..I know very well about it as a Turk and seen what is the terror too..

But can i ask who supported so called Green Generations?Especially about my land i was child but i rememberin clearly from news where they were livin who blaming to Turkish Regime,Army etc..Funny thing nobody seen em when they speakin about middle east issues..

@Eurekaa

(Alexandr tell me if i am wrong)

If i remember true Russians have an idiom like that;

If you scrape off a Russian,You can find a Tathar under her/him :)

[Alexandr]

@Eurekaa

(Alexandr tell me if i am wrong)

If i remember true Russians have an idiom like that;

If you scrape off a Russian,You can find a Tathar under her/him :)


Yeah thats true

[eurekaa]

Before Soviet Union split up there was blames aganist em everytime..

Never forget a quote from the Mehmet Ağar (His carieer; Chief of the Police,Minister of Justice,Minister of Internal Affairs)

''We were always thinking Soviet Union supportin' extreme leftist groups but truth was the totally different''

Of course opium not big deal for the American Economy but whats about the persons?

About Iraq War,Saddam and Iraq issue ''No End in Sight'' can be great documentary movie for answerin EVERYTHING..Terror threatin every people this is truth..I know very well about it as a Turk and seen what is the terror too..

But can i ask who supported so called Green Generations?Especially about my land i was child but i rememberin clearly from news where they were livin who blaming to Turkish Regime,Army etc..Funny thing nobody seen em when they speakin about middle east issues..

@Eurekaa


I visited Turkey several times , and always feel proud of it as Muslem , the only city I hate in Turkey is Istanbul :) , which actually messed by those who call them self ( mafia ) or the ragtage and bobtail who came from the 3rd world countries in Africa or god know from where .. ( im talking about the center of Istanbul ( taksim , aksray , byathet etc ) not the main city itself ..

Always i got in troubles in Istanbul :)

[deagle]

well, then its an obligation of all Americans to counter-jihad.