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View Full Version : Maliki Suggests U.S. Troop Timetable,says Iraq wants more reponsabilities



Afro-European
07-08-2008, 05:07 AM
BAGHDAD, July 7 -- Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has for the first time suggested establishing a timetable for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq, a step that the Bush administration has long opposed.
Maliki raised the idea Monday during a visit to the United Arab Emirates, where he spoke with Arab ambassadors about a security pact being negotiated to determine the future U.S. military role in Iraq.
"The current trend is to reach an agreement on a memorandum of understanding either for the departure of the forces or a memorandum of understanding to put a timetable on their withdrawal," Maliki said, according to a statement released by his office. "In all cases, the basis for any agreement will be respect for the full sovereignty of Iraq."
The comments reflect the political dilemma confronting Maliki and other members of his Shiite-led government. Their primary rival in upcoming provincial elections, Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, is a leading critic of the American presence who has long called for a timetable, a position that is widely popular among Iraq's majority Shiites.
The talks on the security pact have also raised concerns across the Iraqi political spectrum -- and the broader Arab world -- about preserving Iraq's sovereignty and preventing a long-term American presence. Framing the agreement as a memorandum of understanding, possibly including a timetable, may make it more politically palatable, analysts said.
Nasar al-Rubaie, a senior Sadrist lawmaker, welcomed Maliki's suggestion of a timetable, saying that Iraq's armed forces could take over security duties within a year. "This is an important step in the right path," Rubaie said.
White House spokesman Tony Fratto characterized the Maliki statement as consistent with the goals of the Bush administration. "The prime minister is reflecting a shared goal that we have, which is that as the Iraqi forces become a more self-reliant force, we'll see reductions in U.S. forces," Fratto said.
The Bush administration has said that a timetable would play into the hands of enemy forces who would lie low until U.S. troops were gone. Instead, top military and administration officials have said that withdrawal decisions must be based on conditions on the ground. Most of the additional "surge" forces sent to Iraq last year are due to pull out by the end of this month, leaving about 140,000 U.S. troops.
Indeed, Sadiq al-Rikabi, a top political adviser to Maliki, said any timetable would be conditioned on the ability of Iraq's security forces to secure the country, something the government has long said. "In that case, American forces should return home," Rikabi said, adding that there were no discussions so far of specific dates for a U.S. withdrawal.
Rikabi and a U.S. official in Baghdad who spoke on the condition of anonymity said friendly negotiations on the security pact were continuing. Still, the proposal of the memorandum of understanding suggested that the two sides were far from reaching a long-term agreement, which U.S. officials had hoped would be signed by the end of this month. A U.N. mandate authorizing the presence of U.S. troops in Iraq expires Dec. 31.
At the Pentagon, spokesman Bryan Whitman said negotiations were being handled by the State Department but reiterated the need for a conditions-based approach. "Timelines tend to be artificial in nature," he said, "and in a situation where things are as dynamic as they are in Iraq, I would tell you that it's usually best to look at these things as they are on the ground."
In recent weeks, Maliki has spoken in strong terms to domestic and regional audiences, only to have his remarks softened for U.S. consumption by his own advisers or U.S. spokesmen. After he said last month that the negotiations were at a "dead end," officials in Baghdad and Washington explained that Maliki was referring to early U.S. drafts that had since been updated.
Gen. David H. Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, has said he will decide by September -- when he is due to relinquish his command to Lt. Gen. Raymond T. Odierno -- whether additional withdrawals will be possible before year's end.
The timetable issue is a sharp point of disagreement between the presumptive presidential nominees. Republican Sen. John McCain supports the administration position and has said that a withdrawal timetable would endanger recent security gains in Iraq. Democratic Sen. Barack Obama has criticized the Maliki government for dragging its feet on political reconciliation and said that a timetable would force movement.
Although Obama has long pledged to begin immediately withdrawing combat troops at a rate of one to two brigades a month, completing the process within 16 months, he has recently tempered his position with a promise to consult with U.S. commanders on the ground before taking any action.
The negotiations began in March over two U.S.-drafted agreements that in Iraq have been discussed as a single pact. The first is a status-of-forces agreement that would define the legal protections and responsibilities of U.S. troops; the second is a "strategic framework" that would govern the overall U.S.-Iraq political and military relationship.
Last week, Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari said that progress was being made in the negotiations but that many hurdles remained. He said any agreement most likely would last only one or two years and be subject to legislative scrutiny.
If an agreement could not be reached, Zebari indicated that an interim arrangement would be necessary because U.S. troops "cannot stay in Iraq without a legal authorization." It was unclear whether any memorandum of understanding would need approval from Iraq's parliament.
Fratto, the White House spokesman, also said there is a substantial difference between Maliki's call for a timetable and similar calls from congressional Democrats, since the latter would serve to limit the options of Bush as commander in chief.
Bush and Republican lawmakers have regularly condemned any talk of a timetable for a drawdown of U.S. troops.
In remarks last month, for example, Bush praised a new war funding bill because it did not include "an artificial timetable of withdrawal from Iraq.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/07/AR2008070700364.html?hpid=moreheadlines

Shootadelic
07-08-2008, 05:14 AM
I am surprised that US administration is not welcoming this news with happy smiles on the faces. Why would they not want to pull out if there is a local side that wants to take over responsibility? I do not believe that sunni will start civil war with shiites when the destabilizing factor - US led coalition is away. They have managed to live for decades in piece before that..

DaveDash
07-08-2008, 06:28 AM
They have managed to live for decades in piece before that..

Uhhhhh.....

helomech
07-08-2008, 06:38 AM
I am surprised that US administration is not welcoming this news with happy smiles on the faces. Why would they not want to pull out if there is a local side that wants to take over responsibility? I do not believe that sunni will start civil war with shiites when the destabilizing factor - US led coalition is away. They have managed to live for decades in piece before that..

WTF? :roll:

Tell us,Swami,where did you get this nugget of information?

Shootadelic
07-08-2008, 07:00 AM
WTF? :roll:

Tell us,Swami,where did you get this nugget of information?

There were no war major conflicts in Iraq between 1968 and 2003. More info is needed?

Paltcon
07-08-2008, 07:49 AM
There were no war major conflicts in Iraq between 1968 and 2003. More info is needed? The Iran/Iraq war, the crackdown on the Kurds, The Gulf War? Not ringing any bells?

Shootadelic
07-08-2008, 08:04 AM
The Iran/Iraq war, the crackdown on the Kurds, The Gulf War? Not ringing any bells?

There was no civil war in Iraq itself right up to the moment USA & Co went after oil.

Blue_0
07-08-2008, 08:10 AM
If the Iraqi goverment wants us to leave we should get out while we can.

Paltcon
07-08-2008, 08:21 AM
There was no civil war in Iraq itself right up to the moment USA & Co went after oil. So, Iraq was not peaceful between 1968 and 2003?

Shootadelic
07-08-2008, 08:43 AM
So, Iraq was not peaceful between 1968 and 2003?

If you are talking about situation inside the country - yes it was peacefull. If you talking foreign politics - no, it was not peaceful, but in the context of this topic we are talking about situation IN Iraq, not outside. USA & Co have removed the power that kept peace inside the country - Saddam, now if there is a party to the conflict that is confident it can bring the peace - it should be supported.
How many more american guys need to lose their lives before the pullout happens?
Does US care about situation inside Iraq after they leave? I doubt it - they wouldnt have invaded Iraq if they cared. So, what stops them from leaving now?

Clayton Gold
07-08-2008, 08:49 AM
What the hell is going on in this thread ?

If you don't know what you're talking about, it's usually best to keep it shut !

Afro-European
07-08-2008, 09:16 AM
Maliki is turning his back on those that put him where he's.As long as his corruption ridden government will keep closing ties with Iran and shunning Sunnis, the US won't leave.
Though i'm still wondering why can't the US start orderly withdrawing some troops(1 or 2 brig. for ex.) if the surge is really working and give the Iraqis more reponsablities they are cryin for?

Power_serj
07-08-2008, 02:24 PM
If you are talking about situation inside the country - yes it was peacefull. If you talking foreign politics - no, it was not peaceful, but in the context of this topic we are talking about situation IN Iraq, not outside. USA & Co have removed the power that kept peace inside the country - Saddam, now if there is a party to the conflict that is confident it can bring the peace - it should be supported.
How many more american guys need to lose their lives before the pullout happens?
Does US care about situation inside Iraq after they leave? I doubt it - they wouldnt have invaded Iraq if they cared. So, what stops them from leaving now?

You know why it was peaceful right? Saddam's Army used chemical weapons to beat the Kurdish uprising. The Iraqi Army also shelled their own cities against Shi'ite uprising directly after the First Gulf War. There were also many other uprisings that Saddam defeated. The circumstances of many of these uprisings are unknown. Saddam killed any dissenters in the government and tortured "political prisoners". There was never peace in Iraq, Saddam just made it appear so because he killed the opposition and didn't allow journalists inside his country ... and he did this with any means necessary. I don't call that peaceful. :bash:

To get back on topic, if there is a timetable, it should be flexible based on the circumstances of violence and peace. I do believe that a withdrawl should begin soon and responsibilities should be handed over to Iraq ASAP.

Shootadelic
07-08-2008, 02:55 PM
You know why it was peaceful right? Saddam's Army used chemical weapons to beat the Kurdish uprising. The Iraqi Army also shelled their own cities against Shi'ite uprising directly after the First Gulf War. There were also many other uprisings that Saddam defeated. The circumstances of many of these uprisings are unknown. Saddam killed any dissenters in the government and tortured "political prisoners". There was never peace in Iraq, Saddam just made it appear so because he killed the opposition and didn't allow journalists inside his country ... and he did this with any means necessary. I don't call that peaceful. :bash:


What is your point? Saddam used chemical weapons against Kurds and Turkey is today using conventional weapons against Kurds - result is same. Saddam killing? Well, throughtout his 35 years of rule, he killed 1000 times less Iraqis comparing to the numbers of people that died in the 5 years of coalition invasion. Mister, tell to those who died and their relatives that they have died for freedom and they will eat you alive...

tbk107
07-08-2008, 03:08 PM
What is your point? Saddam used chemical weapons against Kurds and Turkey is today using conventional weapons against Kurds - result is same. Saddam killing? Well, throughtout his 35 years of rule, he killed 1000 times less Iraqis comparing to the numbers of people that died in the 5 years of coalition invasion. Mister, tell to those who died and their relatives that they have died for freedom and they will eat you alive...

Head meet Ass :bash:

I hope you're only 12 or come from some backwards country that just got the interwebs; otherwise I feel real sorry for your family.

BloodyTalon
07-08-2008, 03:14 PM
What is your point? Saddam used chemical weapons against Kurds and Turkey is today using conventional weapons against Kurds - result is same. Saddam killing? Well, throughtout his 35 years of rule, he killed 1000 times less Iraqis comparing to the numbers of people that died in the 5 years of coalition invasion. Mister, tell to those who died and their relatives that they have died for freedom and they will eat you alive...
:lol: I love how after your previous point is thoroughly disproven you move right on to the "Oh yeah? Well theres more dead Iraqis now so there!" card. Setting aside the fact that Iraq hasn't been a safe or "pieceful" place ever since 1968, the vast majority of civilian casualties are caused not by the coalition but by the insurgents themselves.

baboon6
07-08-2008, 03:54 PM
Head meet Ass :bash:

I hope you're only 12 or come from some backwards country that just got the interwebs; otherwise I feel real sorry for your family.

It's really sorry not "real sorry".

tbk107
07-08-2008, 04:12 PM
It's really sorry not "real sorry".

No really; I'm real sorry but not really sorry.

seathru
07-08-2008, 04:15 PM
Anyone remembers that there will be an election in Iraq later this year? Maliki is probably just trying to preempt the Sadrist party.
Not much will happen in Iraq before the end of the year, unless Israel attacks Iran.

maw
07-08-2008, 05:12 PM
the vast majority of civilian casualties are caused not by the coalition but by the insurgents themselves.

not quite. of the 650,000 dead iraqi civilians, the lancet study says the following regarding the leading cause of death:
"that the vast majority of the deaths were the result of US aerial bombardment of Iraqi cities, which they found especially hard on "women and children.""

percentage wise they found the leading causes of death to be split thus:

* 37% died due to intervention by the occupying forces.
* the second largest cause of death 36% was criminal violence .
* the insurgency accounted for only 9% of the civilian total.

the 37% that died due to intervention by the occupying forces were primarily (72%) killed by airstrikes and aerial bombing.

Shootadelic
07-08-2008, 05:22 PM
:lol: I love how after your previous point is thoroughly disproven you move right on to the "Oh yeah? Well theres more dead Iraqis now so there!" card. Setting aside the fact that Iraq hasn't been a safe or "pieceful" place ever since 1968, the vast majority of civilian casualties are caused not by the coalition but by the insurgents themselves.

Wrong. I do not go "oh yeah", I honestly think that from all muslim regimes in the area, Saddam's regime was by far more peaceful and democratic.

Can you remind me, who created the conditions for insurgents to appear?

So far invasion did 1000 more bad then good.

SBL
07-08-2008, 05:26 PM
Wrong. I do not go "oh yeah", I honestly think that from all muslim regimes in the area, Saddam's regime was by far more peaceful and democratic.

So are we ignoring the UAE, Kuwait, Jordan, Qatar, and Oman?

BloodyTalon
07-08-2008, 06:20 PM
Wrong. I do not go "oh yeah", I honestly think that from all muslim regimes in the area, Saddam's regime was by far more peaceful and democratic.
As Snakebite has already pointed out, you couldn't be further from the truth. That makes you 0-2 on the issue, but 3rd times a charm, right?


Can you remind me, who created the conditions for insurgents to appear?
The only real contribution we made to the insurgency was when we were stupid enough to disband the Iraqi military after the war, everything else was either the result of;

A: Out of power Baathists. Cuz, you know, they were absolute saints until we rolled in :roll:

B: Foreign fighters. Which is probably our fault according to you because, even though they had Afghanistan to wage their Jihad, the tickets to Iraq were cheaper

or

C: thousands of years of religious tension that was a problem even under Saddam's rule. The only way it was "peaceful" was because Saddam spent much of his rule turning one side into the elite and trying to exterminate the other aside.

Shootadelic
07-08-2008, 06:21 PM
So are we ignoring the UAE, Kuwait, Jordan, Qatar, and Oman?
Not at all, Iraq was by far less religious.

Shootadelic
07-08-2008, 06:29 PM
A
The only real contribution we made to the insurgency was when we were stupid enough to disband the Iraqi military after the war, everything else was either the result of;
A: Out of power Baathists. Cuz, you know, they were absolute saints until we rolled in :roll:
B: Foreign fighters. Which is probably our fault according to you because, even though they had Afghanistan to wage their Jihad, the tickets to Iraq were cheaper

o

C: thousands of years of religious tension that was a problem even under Saddam's rule. The only way it was "peaceful" was because Saddam spent much of his rule turning one side into the elite and trying to exterminate the other aside.

Fact remains fact, during Saddam country lived in peace and one piece despite of the religious tensions for "thousands of years" and it is completely unrelated here what methods did Saddam use to control the situation. Now it is a mess and US are fully reponsible for every single man that died for unnatural reasons betwen 2003 and now.
Half of the world told US that this was going to happen, hoping that logic would prevail.. Now, when the damage is done, it is sad to see that US still does not admit it made huge mistake.
Freedom from Saddam at the price of 600,000 lives.. Like fighting fire by throwing people in..

BloodyTalon
07-08-2008, 06:32 PM
Not at all, Iraq was by far less religious.
rofl rofl rofl I'll take "ignorant knobhead" for 300, Alex.

Saddam Hussein's government wasn't secular. Far from it in fact. Again, Saddam's government was one that gave preferencial treatment to the Sunnis (especially those that were part of the Baathist party) and specifically oppressed Kurds and Shia Arabs. Hell, he even revised the flag to say "God is Great" to stress his own religion. Just because he wasn't a mullah or as big as a fundamentalists as the rulers of Iran doesn't mean that Iraq was a Nietzschian paradise.

edit: Forgot to mention; even if you were right and Iraq under Saddam was completely secular, what's your point? Do you honestly think that there is no such thing as a bad atheist government? History tends to prove you wrong about that.

shocker1
07-08-2008, 06:36 PM
I say leave but I am sure many of my fellow Americans think we in our greatness know what is best. Hey let's just continue with the out of control money printing machine. Hell, everything is so cheap and affordable now let's bomb Iran too. That should really make our lives much better.



Bush Says Iraqi Leaders Will Want U.S. Forces to Stay to Help

By ELISABETH BUMILLER, DAVID E. SANGER and RICHARD W. STEVENSON
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/misc/spacer.gif
Published: January 28, 2005

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/dropcap/w.gifASHINGTON, Jan. 27 - President Bush said in an interview on Thursday that he would withdraw American forces from Iraq if the new government that is elected on Sunday asked him to do so, but that he expected Iraq's first democratically elected leaders would want the troops to remain as helpers, not as occupiers.

"I've, you know, heard the voices of the people that presumably will be in a position of responsibility after these elections, although you never know," Mr. Bush said. "But it seems like most of the leadership there understands that there will be a need for coalition troops at least until Iraqis are able to fight."
He did not say who he expected would emerge victorious. But asked if, as a matter of principle, the United States would pull out of Iraq at the request of a new government, he said: "Absolutely. This is a sovereign government. They're on their feet."
Some members of the administration had made similar pledges, but this was the first time Mr. Bush did so.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/28/politics/28prexy.html

BloodyTalon
07-08-2008, 06:45 PM
Fact remains fact, during Saddam country lived in peace and one piece despite of the religious tensions for "thousands of years" and it is completely unrelated here what methods did Saddam use to control the situation.
...by killing and oppressing the other side. Hardly anything peaceful unless you yourself happen to be a Sunni and former Baathist. You are now 0-3 with your arguement. Here's a hint; saying "IRAQ WUZ PEACEFUL UNDER SADDAM DURR HURR!" multiple times isn't gonna help you win the arguement


Now it is a mess and US are fully reponsible for every single man that died for unnatural reasons betwen 2003 and now
Again, its the insurgents that are doing the vast majority of the killing, not us. As I mentioned before, we are only partially responsible for it in the sense that we gave the unrest a boost in its early stages by completely disbanding the Iraq military and setting thousands of disgruntled ex soldiers loose in the country. However, as I have mentioned before (and you like to deny) most of the insurgency either came from the outside or was from secterian tension that was only "controlled" by Saddam via genocide.

Also, if the recent news is any indication, Iraq as finally and is improving greatly. Hell, at this point the war in Iraq is going better than the war in Afghanistan. And speaking of Afghanistan, if your logic of "I didn't hear it in the news therefore it didn't happen" is right, then the Taliban was the better and more peaceful government.

SBL
07-08-2008, 06:49 PM
Not at all, Iraq was by far less religious.
And......?

BloodyTalon
07-08-2008, 06:51 PM
And......?
Well clearly atheist government are never violent or oppressive. Just ask Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. :roll:

Hutz
07-08-2008, 07:43 PM
You seriously need to open a book shootadelic.

SoSo
07-08-2008, 11:45 PM
Anyone remembers that there will be an election in Iraq later this year? Maliki is probably just trying to preempt the Sadrist party.
Not much will happen in Iraq before the end of the year, unless Israel attacks Iran.

Congratulations! You just made the most intelligent comment on this thread so far. In my opinion.

Vympel
07-09-2008, 05:26 AM
Fact remains fact, during Saddam country lived in peace and one piece despite of the religious tensions for "thousands of years" and it is completely unrelated here what methods did Saddam use to control the situation. Now it is a mess and US are fully reponsible for every single man that died for unnatural reasons betwen 2003 and now.
Half of the world told US that this was going to happen, hoping that logic would prevail.. Now, when the damage is done, it is sad to see that US still does not admit it made huge mistake.
Freedom from Saddam at the price of 600,000 lives.. Like fighting fire by throwing people in..

you dont live in IRAQ and you know ****. People in Iraq now are free and happy