What has Africa contributed to the world

[jebelcat]

Africa is giving nothing to anyone -- apart from AIDS
Irish Independent

Thursday July 10 2008
No. It will not do. Even as we see African states refusing to take action to
restore something resembling civilisation in Zimbabwe, the begging bowl for
Ethiopia is being passed around to us, yet again. It is nearly 25 years
since Ethiopia's (and Bob Geldof's) famous Feed The World campaign, and in
that time Ethiopia's population has grown from 33.5 million to 78 million
today.

So why on earth should I do anything to encourage further catastrophic
demographic growth in that country? Where is the logic? There is none. To be
sure, there are two things saying that logic doesn't count.

One is my conscience, and the other is the picture, yet again, of another
wide-eyed child, yet again, gazing, yet again, at the camera, which yet
again, captures the tragedy of . . .

Sorry. My conscience has toured this territory on foot and financially.
Unlike most of you, I have been to Ethiopia; like most of you, I have
stumped up the loot to charities to stop starvation there. The wide-eyed
boy-child we saved, 20 years or so ago, is now a priapic,
Kalashnikov-bearing hearty, siring children whenever the whim takes him.

There is, no doubt a good argument why we should prolong this predatory and
dysfunctional economic, social and ****** system; but I do not know what it
is. There is, on the other hand, every reason not to write a column like
this.

It will win no friends, and will provoke the self-righteous wrath of, well,
the self-righteous, letter-writing wrathful, a species which never fails to
contaminate almost every debate in Irish life with its sneers and its moral
superiority. It will also probably enrage some of the finest men in Irish
life, like John O'Shea, of Goal; and the Finucane brothers, men whom I
admire enormously. So be it.

But, please, please, you self-righteously wrathful, spare me mention of our
own Famine, with this or that lazy analogy. There is no comparison. Within
20 years of the Famine, the Irish population was down by 30pc. Over the
equivalent period, thanks to western food, the Mercedes 10-wheel truck and
the Lockheed Hercules, Ethiopia's has more than doubled.

Alas, that wretched country is not alone in its madness. Somewhere, over the
rainbow, lies Somalia, another fine land of violent, Kalashnikov-toting,
khat-chewing, girl-circumcising, permanently tumescent layabouts.

Indeed, we now have almost an entire continent of ******ly

hyperactive indigents, with tens of millions of people who only survive
because of help from the outside world.

This dependency has not stimulated political prudence or commonsense.
Indeed, voodoo idiocy seems to be in the ascendant, with the next president
of South Africa being a firm believer in the efficacy of a little tap water
on the post-coital ***** as a sure preventative against infection. Needless
to say, poverty, hunger and societal meltdown have not prevented idiotic
wars involving Tigre, Uganda, Congo, Sudan, Somalia, Eritrea etcetera.

Broad brush-strokes, to be sure. But broad brush-strokes are often the way
that history paints its gaudier, if more decisive, chapters. Japan, China,
Russia, Korea, Poland, Germany, Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia in the 20th
century have endured worse broad brush-strokes than almost any part of
Africa.

They are now -- one way or another -- virtually all giving aid to or
investing in Africa, whereas Africa, with its vast savannahs and its lush
pastures, is giving almost nothing to anyone, apart from AIDS.

Meanwhile, Africa's peoples are outstripping their resources, and causing
catastrophic ecological degradation. By 2050, the population of Ethiopia
will be 177 million: The equivalent of France, Germany and Benelux today,
but located on the parched and increasingly protein-free wastelands of the
Great Rift Valley.

So, how much sense does it make for us actively to increase the adult
population of what is already a vastly over-populated, environmentally
devastated and economically dependent country?

How much morality is there in saving an Ethiopian child from starvation
today, for it to survive to a life of brutal circumcision, poverty, hunger,
violence and ****** abuse, resulting in another half-dozen such wide-eyed
children, with comparably jolly little lives ahead of them? Of course, it
might make you feel better, which is a prime reason for so much charity. But
that is not good enough.

For self-serving generosity has been one of the curses of Africa. It has
sustained political systems which would otherwise have collapsed.

It prolonged the Eritrean-Ethiopian war by nearly a decade. It is inspiring
Bill Gates' programme to rid the continent of malaria, when, in the almost
complete absence of personal self-discipline, that disease is one of the
most efficacious forms of population-control now operating.

If his programme is successful, tens of millions of children who would
otherwise have died in infancy will survive to adulthood, he boasts. Oh
good: then what?I know. Let them all come here. Yes, that's an idea.

[Afro-European]

What's the purpose of this thread beside starting sh!t :fork:? I'll come back to you later.I'm at work now.

[Invisigoth]

What has the world given to Africa? Besides guns, colonies, slavery, disease and misery? Not a lot.

[Supplanter]

Africa has at least given the world humans, diamonds and other gems, gold, oil, Charlize Theron etc.

Probably many inventions and other useful crap :)

[Marshall_Nord]

What has the world given to Africa? Besides guns, colonies, slavery, disease and misery? Not a lot.

Cities, factories, roads, etc.

[stonecutter]

Homo sapiens for one (for better or for worse -- haven't decided yet).
Invisigoth -- bang on.

[Calanen]

What has the world given to Africa? Besides guns, colonies, slavery, disease and misery? Not a lot.

Not sure that we gave slavery to Africa, think slavery was already there.

[gilgoul]

He puts it rather bluntly, and many here are going to yell, but he makes a point.
Colonialism may have destroyed the social structures of many places, including Africa, but free-ride "humanitarian help" not conditionned on serious changes is definitely damaging, and not in Africa alone.

[Billy No Mates]

Africa gave us plunder and easy victories .

[wilhelm]

One of the best articles I have read from a Western newspaper. As somebody born and bred in Africa, and who still lives here, I can only say that I hope the world wakes up to what is going to happen in the next 30 years, because it will affect your children.

Rwanda's genocide was responsible for almost a million dead in a matter of months. They still managed to increase their overall population in the same time period.

My friend employs a woman whom I've met who's mother has AIDS. Her mother had yet another baby at the age of 39 who died gasping and spluttering over the following 2 years.

Guess what? She's just had another one 3 weeks ago at the age of 42. This one also has AIDS. Either she has no feelings or has no brain. My mind is struggling to comprehend.

I wish the best for Africa, that is why I'm here when I have the option of living in Europe. But Africans need to stop blaming others, and start taking responsibility for their own actions. Think about that next time before you headlessly give to charity that will be mostly stolen in Africa before it reaches anybody who really needs it. My family have always been involved in the St Vincent de Paul charity. We no longer give to any other charity we have no control over, as we never know where the bulk of the money is really going.

[wilhelm]

What has the world given to Africa? Besides guns, colonies, slavery, disease and misery? Not a lot.

Reading, writing. And the ability to plan that comes with that. The wheel. modern medicine. Surgery. Better childbirthing techniques lowering mother/infant mortality. Roads. Hospitals. The ability to realise there are other continents and people in the world. Heck, the ability to travel effeciently beyond the next few villages. Mathematics. Transport-trains, cars, aircraft, sea-going vessels, the bicycle. Permanent shelter. Electricity. Refridgeration. Corn (maize) Communications. Organised education. The telephone. The computer. The pen/pencil....... I can go on all day if you want me to.

I cannot believe you wrote that without thinking....:roll:

[Marshall_Nord]

Not sure that we gave slavery to Africa, think slavery was already there.

No, no only the EVIL, white, European male practiced slavery. Trust me, a college "professor" told me so...

I also believe the Europeans taught lions how to attack gazelles and water buffalos.

(waiting for thread to be locked)

[xav]

Chocolate, Mangoes, Papayas, Pineapple, Bananas and Ivory?

Seriously tho, the medical science and maths invented by the muslims... was it not from northern africa muslims?

[Bushranger]

Maths invented by the muslims... was it not from northern africa muslims?

Who taught you history, The Ancient Greeks invented Maths as you put it not North african Muslims.

[xav]

Who taught you history, The Ancient Greeks invented Maths as you put it not North african Muslims.

Long before the earliest written records, there are drawings that do indicate a knowledge of mathematics and of measurement of time based on the stars. For example, paleontologists have discovered ochre rocks in a cave in South Africa adorned with scratched geometric patterns dating back to c. 70,000 BC.[2] Also prehistoric artifacts discovered in Africa and France, dated between 35,000 BC and 20,000 BC,[3] indicate early attempts to quantify time.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_mathematics

Edit: PLus according to WIki, Egyptian maths were around before the Greek's one

[PeterRJG]

Who taught you history, The Ancient Greeks invented Maths as you put it not North african Muslims.

Egyptians were doing maths before Greeks were thought of. In before lock! :)

[wilhelm]

Chocolate, Mangoes, Papayas, Pineapple, Bananas and Ivory?

Seriously tho, the medical science and maths invented by the muslims... was it not from northern africa muslims?

I think certain aspects were developed by Muslims. but logically, mathematics is an ongoing science that started with the ability to do basic arithmatic. It therefore probably started really being developed in the middle east or even the far east. The Muslims furthered developed the mathematical stream developed by the Babylonians, Greeks and Egyptians. The earliest mathematical tract is Babylonian and dates to circa 1900BC.

[PeterRJG]

Chocolate, Mangoes, Papayas, Pineapple, Bananas and Ivory?


1/6.

Everything but ivory comes from elsewhere. Chocolate, papayas and pineapples are from the Americas, mangoes are from Pakistan through India to Burma, and bananas are native to SE Asia and northern Australia.

[sikh_warrior]

i have lived in uganda, travelled to kenya, tanzania, rwanda and brundi.

my view point is that after the colonial master left africa....it was left to be managed by locals....and who never were able to take their continent forward to match the development in the rest of the world.

well they were never allowed to develop and progress and instead the whole of africa was exploited for its natural wealth.

look where nigeria stands in terms of development despite having OIL!

[Supplanter]

1/6.

Everything but ivory comes from elsewhere. Chocolate, papayas and pineapples are from the Americas, mangoes are from Pakistan through India to Burma, and bananas are native to SE Asia and northern Australia.


Roughly two-thirds of the entire world's cocoa is produced in Western Africa, with 43% sourced from Côte d'Ivoire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chocolate#Production

[PeterRJG]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chocolate#Production

It's not *from* Africa...Brazil grows most of the world's sugar cane too...guess where it's from? SE Asia...

[jebelcat]

What's the purpose of this thread beside starting sh!t :fork:? I'll come back to you later.I'm at work now.

The purpose is discussion on Africa..... no sh!t intended...:roll:...so far the threads have been tame...

[xav]

Yes... I meant in term of production too (I knew Ivory Coast is #1 producer in the world)

But maybe he meant the ORIGIN as in, it never grew "naturally" in AFrica in the first place

[ilmakas]

In the context of this article we should be talking about sub-saharan africa, so north-african muslims and ancient egyptians shouldnt count when discussing african contribution to humanity.

[Supplanter]

It's not *from* Africa...Brazil grows most of the world's sugar cane too...guess where it's from? SE Asia...

Now I get what you're saying, my mistake :)

[PeterRJG]

i have lived in uganda, travelled to kenya, tanzania, rwanda and brundi.

my view point is that after the colonial master left africa....it was left to be managed by locals....and who never were able to take their continent forward to match the development in the rest of the world.

well they were never allowed to develop and progress and instead the whole of africa was exploited for its natural wealth.

look where nigeria stands in terms of development despite having OIL!

Nigeria would benefit from a non-corrupt government, a non-corrupt bureaucracy and a political setup that doesn't stem from tribal days. In fact, that goes for most of sub-saharan Africa, but that's another story for another thread...

Can't blame everything on the evil white colonial, as much as it's seductive to do so.

[xav]

In the context of this article we should be talking about sub-saharan africa, so north-african muslims and ancient egyptians shouldnt count when discussing african contribution to humanity.

Lol too easy don't you think? Africa is Africa...

[Stonewall71]

Maybe if the colonial powers had not divide Africa between themselves , with a scale, ignoring tribes and tribal origins, things would have been better???? :|

[xav]

i have lived in uganda, travelled to kenya, tanzania, rwanda and brundi.


I lived 15 years in Africa, when i was a kid. Burkina Faso, Senegal, Benin, Central African Republic (the most **** hole of all), Gabon (the most rich), Mali.

My dad is still working there... but my feeling and observation is that African people were nicer 10 - 20 years ago... They seem different now... Unless they seemed nicer to me back then because I was a kid.

[Bushranger]

The sad thing about Africa is that life is worth nothing to them now, with Aids & being treated like **** by tin pot dictators i guess they feel they have nothing to lose & they have no problem killing if it suits there situation.

[b0sco]

Liberia and Ethiopia were never under white rule or colonized... yet the situation there isn't that different from the countries that have been colonized...

[Bushranger]

Africa has to stop blaming colonial rule for its problems, yes i know it did cause them issues it hs been decades in most since this ended, but as humans in the 21st century they need to start fixing there own problems.

[Dinges]

Africa has to stop blaming colonial rule for its problems, yes i know it did cause them issues it hs been decades in most since this ended, but as humans in the 21st century they need to start fixing there own problems.


But here is where the rub is. Blaming colonial rule has been so profitable - why would they want to stop.

And the western world does not even start to understand Africa , where the tribal chiefdom is still alive and thriving on western donations.

[Bushranger]

But here is where the rub is. Blaming colonial rule has been so profitable - why would they want to stop.

And the western world does not even start to understand Africa , where the tribal chiefdom is still alive and thriving on western donations.

Just stop donating then see how they go.

[sp2c]

I mean no disrespect but ... slaves?

how does the author propose we got this rich, by working the coffee plants ourselves at minimum wage?

and now we don't have to do anything for them, but I think we should want to because we can ... it's the way it's being done that bothers me atm

[Dominique]

The sad thing about Africa is that life is worth nothing to them now, with Aids & being treated like **** by tin pot dictators i guess they feel they have nothing to lose & they have no problem killing if it suits there situation.

So the entire population of Africa doesn't believe life is worth living? And who doesn't have a problem killing, the populations, or the dictators?

[NowPlaying]

What has the world given to Africa? Besides guns, colonies, slavery, disease and misery? Not a lot.
electricity, penicillin, modern scientific achievements.

[xav]

I remember... in 99 or 2000 I was in Bangui, I was talking to an Elder guy who've seen it all, colonization, Bokassa emperor era etc... At that time (around 2000) there were talks about the French Army leaving (or they already left, not sure). And to my surprise he started telling me how things were better when the french army was there... and even better during the colony time. That the city of Bangui was nice, clean, with nice roads, nice buildings, and to him, life was just easier and better.
I was not sure what to say because I was only 17-18, but I understand his point: You should see the city now. Most roads are dirt. Nothing is maintained. Most of the houses and buildings were built during the colonies... and haven't been maintained since then...

I am in no way saying colonisation was a good thing, but I am just wondering how these cities would have been without colonization... Also it is a bit of a shame to me. You get all these roads and buildings etc... and yet you let them wear off with time and nobody gives **** about it.

THen this is Central Africa Republic... Gabon is the opposite, the city is growing, they are building roads etc (but they have Oil money + the money they get from the chinese for letting them slaughter their tropical forest and mass fish their sea).

[Bushranger]

So the entire population of Africa doesn't believe life is worth living? And who doesn't have a problem killing, the populations, or the dictators?

Not all but a fair bunch must believe life is pretty cheap, Both kill with no problem & they have proven this over the last 30yrs.

[sp2c]

Africa has to stop blaming colonial rule for its problems, yes i know it did cause them issues it hs been decades in most since this ended, but as humans in the 21st century they need to start fixing there own problems.

colonialism and to an extend the cold war did not cause Africa's problems
people simply don't tend to like eachother ... hell we (the Dutch) have been at war with pretty much every European nation close to us (Brits, Danes, Swedes, French, Brits, Italians, Brits, Germans, Brits etc.) and some beyond that at some point in the past 400 years or so but we're still friends nowadays ... wars do not last forever, even if they are based on tribal roots. Just because it's a tribal culture doesn't mean these nations can't exist the way they are now.

problem in Africa is the transition from being ruled by whomever to independance.
Most colonial empires simply stopped being the boss one day, leaving the biggest, baddest, meanest warlord in charge to rule the place without ever having been in anything remotely close to politics

to be honest I think a fixed period of foreign (preferably UN) rule (call it neo colonialism
without the slavery and the second rate citizenship) would fix a lot of Africa's problems

give them some time to mature as a nation and a deadline to live (learn) up to after which they will be on their own ... so not like Kosovo which was kept in limbo indefinately after which they declared independance at some point but a real transparant learning period for the locals
but that's never gonna happen

[Dinges]

It is all about power at the top. The traditional chief of the tribe/village by default owns all the cattle , land and produce . So basically all the wealth of the tribe or village. And they are very ambitious for more so the chief will order to plunder the next village and so on. Lest we forget that in Africa a wealthy man/chief is perceived by how many children they have and to a lesser extent how fat they are(seriously).

Now extrapolate that scenario into a so-called Western style democracy that the world wants in Africa.

And the net result is what we are left with now.

[Dinges]

colonialism and to an extend the cold war did not cause Africa's problems
people simply don't tend to like eachother ... hell we (the Dutch) have been at war pretty much every western European nation and some beyond that at some point in the past 400 years or so

problem in Africa is the transition from being ruled by whomever to independance.
Most colonial empires simply stopped being the boss one day, leaving the biggest, baddest, meanest warlord in charge to rule the place without ever having been in anything remotely close to politics

to be honest I think a fixed period of foreign (preferably UN) rule (call it neo colonialism
without the slavery and the second rate citizenship) would fix a lot of Africa's problems

give them some time to mature as a nation and a deadline to live (learn) up to after which they will be on their own ... so not like Kosovo which was kept in limbo indefinately after which they declared independance at some point but a real transparant learning period for the locals
but that's never gonna happen


I do not agree with you.

You can not fix animosities and cultural structures that has been along for millennia with a UN mandate.

[PanzerMaster]

Funny how people here are replyng solely on the thread title that, it appears to me, is misleading regarding the article (that can have a bit of hate inside but contain cynicals, pragmaticals and mathematicals concept).

RTFA members before being involved in the game WHO GAVE WHAT

[Honneur et Patrie]

I agree with Xav. I've discuted with some African or ex-African (who still have familiy in Africa) people of various locations (Madagascar, Cameroon, Senegal, Cap Verde...) and they all think that it was better under french rule! Some says : "France should come back, it's a moral duty!":cantbeli:

The increasing demography is a great challenge for our generations. They absolutely don't want to manage birth control, mostly on religious reasons (and also economical ground : a child can work or search food). Islam and Catholicism (and some evangelical churches) prohibit contraception.

The problem is that it create a pressure on food (and water) market and they're the first victims. When prices increase, a european (or american) can always food his family, perhaps he will have to withdraw other purchase, but he will not die of starvation), an african can't.

So mostly of african see Europe and North-America as eldorados and search for a legally or often illegaly entry! Last week an officer of the "Guardia Costiera" (Italian Coast Guard) said : "It's an entire continent which push in northern direction"!

[superbuzzmetal]

Not all but a fair bunch must believe life is pretty cheap, Both kill with no problem & they have proven this over the last 30yrs.

Africa's population is no different from the rest of the world, put some people in a place with poor living conditions (not enough food etc, security etc...) and it will be a question of survival, just look at what happened when Katrina stroke New Orleans. Also add to that no education whatsoever, plus all the different tribes that still cause and a division now days.
Colonialism and the Americans and Commies using it as a play ground during the cold war didn't help too.
In regards to slavery as someone already stated, it wasn't a white man invention, every culture in the world did it at one time or another, the Europeans just took it to the next level due to their lack of manpower in the new world.

[pacifist]

Seriously tho, the medical science and maths invented by the muslims... was it not from northern africa muslims?

I doubt that islam had anything to do with it.

[sp2c]

I do not agree with you.

You can not fix animosities and cultural structures that has been along for millennia with a UN mandate.

UN mandates don't fix anything ...

These people need to learn how to govern themselves.
A smart politician will use/abuse the cultural structures to benefit the entire country and not just his own clan

[Bushranger]

I agree with Xav. I've discuted with some African or ex-African (who still have familiy in Africa) people of various locations (Madagascar, Cameroon, Senegal, Cap Verde...) and they all think that it was better under french rule! Some says : "France should come back, it's a moral duty!":cantbeli:

There are some Black South Africans saying they wish the white govt was back in control, atleast they had jobs & it was a lot safer, as long as they still had there rights as they do now, who would have thought.

[Dinges]

UN mandates don't fix anything ...

These people need to learn how to govern themselves.
A smart politician will use/abuse the cultural structures to benefit the entire country and not just his own clan


I see where you are coming from and to a degree I agree with you. But that old rant about absolute power corrupts absolutely then comes into play.

Africa has never had a government that held such ideals as paramount. It is all a powertrip for the politicians , generals etc. Even in western countries the political victor fights only for his party or base and their ideologies and to hell with the rest.

In Africa this is lopsided , once you win you don't work with the losing opponent - you get rid of them.

[sp2c]

yes that's why Africa sucks!

you're right obviously but I just don't think Africa is d00med because we drew the borders with a ruler instead of common sense ... there's ethnic minorities all over the globe, most don't get murdered for no other reason then their blood.

Africa is being ruled by warlords
these warlords need to be replaced by proper politicians.
won't make all problems disappear obviously but it will help, and yes in case of people like Mugabe this requires brute force (nobody is willing to apply) but not all of them (Djibouti for instance) and good examples are ... well, good examples (I have something in Dutch but it doesn't work in English ;))

but to be honest, like pretty much everyone else except the French and the Belgians I don't reeeeeeally care about Africa

[Calanen]

There are some Black South Africans saying they wish the white govt was back in control, atleast they had jobs & it was a lot safer, as long as they still had there rights as they do now, who would have thought.

New Guinea was certainly much better under Australian rule.

[oldsoak]

Wan pela kantri mate.
The problem is trying to move societies that are geared to managing small social groups into 21st century structures. You will end up with people in charge who run the place as they would a small tribe.

[kosse]

I wouldn't give a rat's ass but since they don't seem to stay on their continent something should be done. Partial recolonisation of the worst areas (Somalia etc.) and China style one child policy could be a good start.

[sp2c]

Wan pela kantri mate.
The problem is trying to move societies that are geared to managing small social groups into 21st century structures. You will end up with people in charge who run the place as they would a small tribe.

yeah that's pretty much it imo

UN isn't helping either by simply giving them money and food because it just gives people like Mugabe a backup plan

[Salman]

FFS what kind of question is that? I sense the racism motivated prejudice behind the original question.

Yes most of africa is in deep **** today and that is because of many reasons but I assure you none of them is because they are less able from birth. To anyone who disagree with this basic statement please choke yourself and dont waste more air.

If the original author meant the whole of africa and not just sub-saharan africa then I think most people in here should be able to identify or at least suspect the contributions made by the infamous ancient egyptians. The civilizations of northern africa are famous throughout history, is was north africans who occupied spain for nearly 800 years...that is not a civil achievment in itself but this occupation was among the major reasons for euopes raise from the middle ages.

when Sub saharan aftica is mentioned I think about Ghana Empire, Mali Empire and the songhai empire.......Cant belive people think africans didn't build houses before the europeans moved in...get over yourselfes...lol

[Calanen]

FFS what kind of question is that? I sense the racism motivated prejudice behind the original question.



Yeah its all because of racism that the place is a basket case.

[Dominique]

Yeah its all because of racism that the place is a basket case.

On that we definitely agree. A good little chunk of African nations spend there time trying to wipe-out each other, instead of working to improve their current situation.

[name already taken]

"History is written by the victor." as the saying goes. (...and this gives the subsequent monopoly on morality to the victor)

Chinese were a bunch of opium smoking lazy mystics, according to European popular wisdom, just a few decades ago.

Now they're becoming the Great Civilisation they never really stopped to be, according to the same European popular wisdom.

Maybe Africa will be bound to teach humanity how to survive through peak oil and global warming, who knows ?

Maybe humanity will at some point actually need Africa, for something else than easy plundering and cheap labor ? Who can say, nobody can predict future yet.

Even with the best technological advances.

Better to keep ourselves from definitive judgement and use our $0.02.

[Marshall_Nord]

Yeah its all because of racism that the place is a basket case.

Hey, just calling someone a racist can make you feel better and "proves" that you aren't a racist. :roll:

Happens all the time, even on this board.

[Dinges]

Here is a contribution Africa made


http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/3808/dolossewallds9.th.jpg (http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dolossewallds9.jpg)

[Calanen]

Maybe Africa will be bound to teach humanity how to survive through peak oil and global warming, who knows ?



http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5747/wizardofozdvdcoverym6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[[WDW]Megaraptor]

Liberia and Ethiopia were never under white rule or colonized... yet the situation there isn't that different from the countries that have been colonized...

Liberia was an American colony from 1821 to 1847. Ethiopia was an Italian colony from 1936 to 1941.

[name already taken]

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5747/wizardofozdvdcoverym6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
That's what we're presently living.

[b0sco]

Megaraptor;3382260']. Ethiopia was an Italian colony from 1936 to 1941.

They lost a war against Italy, by that logic France was our colony from 1940-1944.

[xav]

They lost a war against Italy, by that logic France was our colony from 1940-1944.

And Russia ours during Napoleon... even Most of europe. And a large part of the US (the greater Louisiana).

[flatdog]

What has Africa contributed to the world?

ME! Hung like a horse, and almost as smart.

[Salman]

Yeah its all because of racism that the place is a basket case.

I am talking about the motives of the original poster which should be classed as falmebait. If you read the rest of my post you would understand. Get your head out of the sand.

Africa is a mess, correct, and its because of many reasons, alot of them is their own. Apart from that africa is not a mess because the people living there have any less potential, agree?

[Salman]

Hey, just calling someone a racist can make you feel better and "proves" that you aren't a racist. :roll:

Happens all the time, even on this board.



Frustrated?

Ok....tell me, does africa contribute with anything good to the world? and if no, why?

[sexyhamburger]

What has Africa contributed to the world?

ME! Hung like a horse, and almost as smart.hahahaha stupid. This thread does present some serious flamebait, thats undeniable but at the same time the topic does hold merit, controversial merit as it is, its still merit. The story is the same over and over again, The west sends money to "charities" and supplies and whatnot and the people supposedly benefiting get screwed either way hence maybe its time that the West starts thinking a little and says "hey, maybe we should actually do something about this instead of dumping money into the hands of greedy self-righteous warlords". Now the other viewpoint: Why help Africa? Historically speaking people just haven't been able to relate with the continent, the whole world has always looked down on it and no one really wants to send their forces into Africa to do the deed unless its to save Ex Pats like in Sierra Leone, Rwanda or Cote d'Ivoire. And even when we tried to help out a humanitarian situation like in Somalia the locals obviously didn't want us there and had showed us that they would rather side with the warlords than with the UN or other western countries. So really now, morally I think we should care. It truly is tragic seeing those children suffer and seeing all the terrible things going on all over that continent. Realistically speaking though, I just don't think we can do anything about in Europe and North America or anywhere else for that matter until the African countries can say for themselves "hey, this is messed up, we need to do something about this". Its all about effort.

[Marshall_Nord]

Frustrated?

Ok....tell me, does africa contribute with anything good to the world? and if no, why?

Sorry, can't go there. I already have one infraction for an "African" topic...

[Mordoror]

What has Africa contributed to the world

a lot of things through the ages

crop (from egypt who was feeding the roman empire and western civilization)

salt

several natural ressources (copper, iron, wood, exotic fruits, exotics animals, diamond,fish, encense, oil)

slaves (plenty of them and without them the French, Spanish, Brit ... Empires would have not developped themselves as they did, ensuring that the actual world would not be the same... it is also true for the USA)

culture (Egyptian, Carthaginian, Nubian which had a big influence on the mediterranean area and so the western world)

infectious diseases (Paludism, Worms, yellow fever and so nice bugs like Ebola)

some of the most brilliant civilizations and empires (although ignored by the western history like the Empire of the Great Zimbabwe, Mali empire, Songhai Empire)

Legends (of monkey-man, of cities of gold, of the queen of Saba, of the unicorn)

Big spaces to make empires and ensure its power (for almost all important european nations)

interaction with Africa had a major impact for good or bad on the European nations history

not to mention (but it was already said) that it is the place of birth of humankind

[Laworkerbee]

I'd like nothing more than you whip out my **** and slap a whole lot of posters in this thread.

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/4430/batfd3.gif

[IDF_TANKER]

Africa gave us computers. Seriously.

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/ron_eglash_on_african_fractals.html

(He gets to this at the end of the lecture.)

[Mr.Flint]

a lot of things through the ages

crop (from egypt who was feeding the roman empire and western civilization)
Wrong, its Mesopotamia actually, not Egypt.
and Egypt supplies of the Roman empire, can hardly be called even feeding Rome, notwithstanding Western Civilization.
And it wasnt only Egypt.

salt

Other sources existed, and if not for Phoenicians, African salt wouldnt been widespread

several natural ressources (copper, iron, wood, exotic fruits, exotics animals, diamond,fish, encense, oil)
All of these equally available from other sources

slaves (plenty of them and without them the French, Spanish, Brit ... Empires would have not developped themselves as they did, ensuring that the actual world would not be the same... it is also true for the USA)
Questionable claim. Africans were not the only people in slavery. One could also assume that without African slaves, less convicts would been executed, and employed as slaves in larger numbers than they were.

culture (Egyptian, Carthaginian, Nubian which had a big influence on the mediterranean area and so the western world)

Again rather questionable claim. Mesopotamian and Aegean cultures had arguably a far more significant impact. Egypt was quite taken with Hellenic culture before being conquered by Rome.


some of the most brilliant civilizations and empires (although ignored by the western history like the Empire of the Great Zimbabwe, Mali empire, Songhai Empire)
Maybe because they had nil impact outside Africa? even the isolationist China, or mysterious Muscovy had more impact.


..................

[NowPlaying]

Empire of the Great Zimbabwe,
wtf is that


Mali empire, Songhai Empire)

those were primitive arab islamic states which built their 'wealth' on black african slave trading and gold trading.
Nothing to be proud of.

btw you need to learn what does "empire" means.

[Mordoror]

Hum I see somebody who wants to argue p-)

Most of the examples i gave above are of course not exclusive to Africa but the question was "what Africa contributed to the world" not "what Africa was the only one to contribute to the world"

Aside that Egypt was one of the major crop field of the Roman Empire

(sorry but at that time Mesopotamia was not providing cereals to Rome but rather either to the Persian Empire which inoccupied most of the fertile crescent area or in very small quantities because of the distance to an easy commercial road .... when it was easy to get the egyptian crop to Rome by boat)

just to remind you that some riots occured in Rome and Italy because of shortage of Egyptian cereals


salt

Other sources existed, and if not for Phoenicians, African salt wouldnt been widespread
Yes and ??
whover was responsible of its distribution (phoenicians, berbers, maurs or touaregs) one of the main salt supply to Europe in the late antiquity and middle age was from Africa

s
everal natural ressources (copper, iron, wood, exotic fruits, exotics animals, diamond,fish, encense, oil)
All of these equally available from other sources
again it is not exclusive from Africa but very few continent have such different ressources concentrated in few areas
Come on if not the ressource, why so many wars (including the colonial wars and mercenary wars) on the African soil
can had uranium, gold, silver and rare minerals (palladium/zirconium ....)


slaves (plenty of them and without them the French, Spanish, Brit ... Empires would have not developped themselves as they did, ensuring that the actual world would not be the same... it is also true for the USA)
Questionable claim. Africans were not the only people in slavery. One could also assume that without African slaves, less convicts would been executed, and employed as slaves in larger numbers than they were.fully disgaree on that
given the amount of slaves sent from the african coasts to the European colonies in South and North america, prisoners and convincts could not have reached the critical working masse needed for the exploitation of such territories
beside that even if the Africans were not the only pepole on slavery they came after the natives from central america whose numbers dropped quickly. And taht's because those native "forced workers" number dropped that the european who needed working hand for their colonies were searching slaves in Africa


culture (Egyptian, Carthaginian, Nubian which had a big influence on the mediterranean area and so the western world)

Again rather questionable claim. Mesopotamian and Aegean cultures had arguably a far more significant impact. Egypt was quite taken with Hellenic culture before being conquered by Rome.
Early Egyptian culture had a major impact on the Minoen culture, the ME culture and several others bronze age tribes or nations
you cannot discard that or it is dishonesty
and sorry but history is not a linear thing ... exchanges were done from both side and were the basis of further civilizations
I am not saying here that Egyot is the origin of everything
but Egyptian achievments were widespread and helped some (at that time) lesser tribes or countries to developp in some way or other (one example which come to mind is architecture which was not invented by the Egyptians but improved in some ways used afterward)
If you want another examples the glass is believed to have been invented by the Egyptians 4000 years ago


some of the most brilliant civilizations and empires (although ignored by the western history like the Empire of the Great Zimbabwe, Mali empire, Songhai Empire)
Maybe because they had nil impact outside Africa? even the isolationist China, or mysterious Muscovy had more impact.point to you on that
or may be it is because for a 19e century white superiority mentality, it could have be harsh to say that such achievment were done by some "negros"
because we heard a lot more of meso american empires that did not have any impact (except of beeing plundered) for Europeans

[Mordoror]

,
wtf is that



those were primitive arab islamic states which built their 'wealth' on black african slave trading and gold trading.
Nothing to be proud of.

btw you need to learn what does "empire" means.

http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/essays/intro/tbl_ethnicafrica.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_empires

empire word is not my word
it is widely used to describe those "political entities" :roll:

Anyway their structures were in agreement with the official definition so .....


em·pire (http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ebreve.gifmhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gifphttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/imacr.gifrhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/lprime.gif)n.1. a. A political unit having an extensive territory or comprising a number of territories or nations and ruled by a single supreme authority.
b. The territory included in such a unit.

[0rphie]

Not sure that we gave slavery to Africa, think slavery was already there.
actually the slavery in Africa probably existed long before europeans started their trips there. after-all pyramids in Egypt were not built by contractors

[2Sheds_Jackson]

This is kind of silly. If we have to go back thousands of years to find something worthwhile, that should tell us something, no?

Hell, I don't even ask that they be at the forefront of anything - I don't require that they provide humanity with new technologies - just being self-sufficient is good enough for me.

The tone of the original article is a bit harsh, but it's hard for me to argue with. Seems to be the flip-side of Bono's coin. The last I remember, he was pushing for money and aid with no strings attached (after all it's wrong to insist where and how "free" money is spent, where food goes etc.) and that we forget about what they already owe. But much of Africa finds itself where it is today precisely because nobody pays attention, and nobody requires them to ever pay things back. Just like the worst inner cities in the West, it's a system that can only exist if it's propped up by somebody else. And if the system is wrong, isn't it wrong for us to keep propping it up?

[Dinges]

This is kind of silly. If we have to go back thousands of years to find something worthwhile, that should tell us something, no?

Hell, I don't even ask that they be at the forefront of anything - I don't require that they provide humanity with new technologies - just being self-sufficient is good enough for me.

The tone of the original article is a bit harsh, but it's hard for me to argue with. Seems to be the flip-side of Bono's coin. The last I remember, he was pushing for money and aid with no strings attached (after all it's wrong to insist where and how "free" money is spent, where food goes etc.) and that we forget about what they already owe. But much of Africa finds itself where it is today precisely because nobody pays attention, and nobody requires them to ever pay things back. Just like the worst inner cities in the West, it's a system that can only exist if it's propped up by somebody else. And if the system is wrong, isn't it wrong for us to keep propping it up?


Nail : "Here sir!"

Hammer: "Are you ready!"

Nail : "Yessiree!"

Wham!!!

Nail : "Good shot sir , on the head!"

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Maybe the question should be "what more can Africa contribute to the world".

[0rphie]

Maybe the question should be "what more can Africa contribute to the world".

I would rather settle for: Africa is not required to contribute to us, and in exchange we do not contribute to Africa. literally, if they can self-sustain, good if not, sorry.

[SuperCavitator]

The race of a large number of male ****ography stars.

[Mordoror]

Maybe the question should be "what more can Africa contribute to the world".

or "what Africa contributed to the world in the last 100 years" if some want to stick to modern days !!

[matthew.manhorn]

many many beautiful animals for not modernizing their beautiful land

i love nature

[Uten]

http://www.rapestop.net/gallery/photos/Anti-Rape%20Condom%20in%20open%20position/IMG_1845.JPG

[Andreas]

I often catch myself thinking when I look at Africa that this I where the human race began, and the way things are going in a
Africa is a signal of where we are heading as a race. But the continent where it all began has a head start on the rest of us..

That being said, I cant understand that we still after so many years with catastrophes, hunger and states of crises around the world that we still havent found an aid-solution that works in form of sustainability, and helping the people get back on their feet again on their own.

Anyone else thinking the same thing?

[Bia]

[SIZE=2]What has Africa contributed to the world

Kickass videos of lions killing hyenas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_e17fBd3tI

Thank you Africa.

[Bombtrack]

Cities, factories, roads, etc.

Yes, to funnel natural resources back to the colonizer.

[Alexandr]

Tiltle is awesome,but little bit no accurate,looking at whole article.I should sound "What more we can steal from Africa"

[joedamage]

Maybe the question should be, what have YOU contributed to this world? I bet its not much.
Then again, what has the rest of the world contributed? More efficient killing machines, green house gases, global warming, any number of deadly poisons, oil pollution, nuclear waste, Chernobyl, rising sea levels, thousands of species being wiped out, English football... its all relative... I see the rising sea levels and global climate change as a big negative, and thats something no-one in Africa could have orchestrated, so don't sit on your high horse and ask silly questions.

Just by the way, here are a few things Africa has contributed: Oil from coal, CAT scans, the heart transplant (which many of you lard-assed geeks are going to need), the soft contact lens (which many of you probably wear), Pratley Putty there are more, but many of them aren't as significant.

[PeterRJG]

Maybe the question should be, what have YOU contributed to this world? I bet its not much.
Then again, what has the rest of the world contributed? More efficient killing machines, green house gases, global warming, any number of deadly poisons, oil pollution, nuclear waste, Chernobyl, rising sea levels, thousands of species being wiped out, English football... its all relative... I see the rising sea levels and global climate change as a big negative, and thats something no-one in Africa could have orchestrated, so don't sit on your high horse and ask silly questions.


Someone else who thinks humans are vermin.


Just by the way, here are a few things Africa has contributed: Oil from coal, CAT scans, the heart transplant (which many of you lard-assed geeks are going to need), the soft contact lens (which many of you probably wear), Pratley Putty there are more, but many of them aren't as significant.

Contact lenses are a German and Czech invention. CAT scans had multiple inventors, mainly US. I'm not seeing any Africans in its history at all.

The others you mentioned were African, South Africa, to be honest, but how many non-Europeans were involved in their creating?

Just asking.

[The Balkan]

What about civilization, domestication of animals and aggriculture?

****, Egyptians even did plastic surgery.

But above all that continent has given the world some of it's greatest wonders. Pyramids and the whole Egyptian civilization for one. We're still figuring them out.

Obviosly when it comes to modern scientific discoveries, Africa isn't gonna be the place. There's probly not too much time for splitting atoms, when you have to solve problems like starvation and wars.

[Calanen]

Just by the way, here are a few things Africa has contributed: Oil from coal, CAT scans, the heart transplant (which many of you lard-assed geeks are going to need), the soft contact lens (which many of you probably wear), Pratley Putty there are more, but many of them aren't as significant.

South Africa, is not really Africa, well it wasnt when it invented heart transplants.

[LRPV]

South Africa, is not really Africa, well it wasnt when it invented heart transplants.

LOL. Well RSA is safely back in Africa these days...

[mi35d]

It reminds me of the scene in "Life of Brian"...

"Alright, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a freshwater system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"

"Brought peace?"

"Shut up!"

[joedamage]

Someone else who thinks humans are vermin.

Yes.


Contact lenses are a German and Czech invention. CAT scans had multiple inventors, mainly US. I'm not seeing any Africans in its history at all.


Okay, technically, one of the 2 main developers of CAT scans was South African born and trained until his Masters....
And you're right, I don't know where I got the contact lens thing from!?!


The others you mentioned were African, South Africa, to be honest, but how many non-Europeans were involved in their creating?

So this is about race then? Is this all about the inferiority of the black man? Sheesh! Why didn't you say so! Well, hell... in that case, scratch everything I said and lets continue forming our little playground groups, keep to ourselves, point fingers at people different from us and wind ourselves into a fury at the injustice of it all! Damn yeah! Lets forget about all the crap we get up to and make sure everyone sees what they do... (or don't do...) That will certainly make this world a better place to live in...

[PeterRJG]

So this is about race then? Is this all about the inferiority of the black man? Sheesh! Why didn't you say so! Well, hell... in that case, scratch everything I said and lets continue forming our little playground groups, keep to ourselves, point fingers at people different from us and wind ourselves into a fury at the injustice of it all! Damn yeah! Lets forget about all the crap we get up to and make sure everyone sees what they do... (or don't do...) That will certainly make this world a better place to live in...

I love it when people snatch on to a strawman argument, and then run with it liked a crazed moron.

I can't argue with anything you've stated simply as I have not taken those positions.

[joedamage]

Dude, that was ironic.


to be honest, but how many non-Europeans were involved in their creating?

I think thats pretty darn specific! Nothing "straw" about it!

[PeterRJG]

Dude, that was ironic.



I think thats pretty darn specific! Nothing "straw" about it!


South Africa, is not really Africa, well it wasnt when it invented heart transplants.

That resolve anything for you? Maybe I should've said pre-1994 South Africa, just to clarify.

[Calanen]

That resolve anything for you? Maybe I should've said pre-1994 South Africa, just to clarify.

You didnt say it, joedamage did.

But its a bit hard for 'Africa' to claim credit for what a small group of white scientists did in South Africa.

[Calanen]

Maybe the question should be, what have YOU contributed to this world? I bet its not much.


Enlighten us all as to your esteemed contributions to mankind.

[Mordoror]

in fact that discussion is going nowhere
why : because we are all grouping under a same thing (Africa) a territory made of dozens of countries with different ressources, political orientations, religions, topography .... etc

the importance of Egypt by the past and nowadays is not the same when comparated with the importance of Botswana
so the question is biased at the very basis

and to clarify my point of view : if you look at South America or Central America from the past to now, the same question can be asked and the same bias would emerge
What Bolivia has contributed to the world ?
Or Honduras ?
Or Nicaragua ?
Or Guatemala ?
On the other side Brazil for example is contributing now ....

When you come back to the African example it is the same thing
What Mauritania or Namibia or Guinée-Bissau contributed to the world ?
On the other side look at the Achievments of Egypt, South Africa or Lybia just to cite a few countries that had an influence on the international politics/markets on the last 50 years .... (achievments that could be considered good or bad, but achievments anyway ....)

[Marshall_Nord]

Just by the way, here are a few things Africa has contributed: Oil from coal

The Fischer-Tropsch process? These are Germans!

[Bandeirante]

Africa gave us life, Homo Sapiens is an African creation !
In our case Brazil has been the country in the world that received the biggest number of Africans and we only are one of the biggest countries of the world because we had Africans or we (my own ancestral people, language, state) would have been exterminated in the colonial wars, if our people could defeat the other European powers in the fierce South American Colonial Wars it was because we always had the African and Black people among us, just like in the modern football contests ! Our Brazilian football teams only could win the World Cup several times in the last 50 years because we had the African contribution and the Black players (thanks God), but Africa gave us culture, gastronomy, music, religion, dances, alegria !
In the time of Jesus Christ we could have asked what Ireland/Britain or the Celtic Northern Europe had gave to the world ! Only the Roman Empire, the Greeks, the Hebrews, the Middle Easterners, the Egyptians had had contributed at that time, so nobody can answer what will be the world balance of power in a thousand years (what was North America in the 1500's).
Of course Africa must work hard to improve and develop the African societies and the living standards nowadays but they have important potentials for the future because they have what is more important always, they have people and life !

[helomech]

Get rid of the rampant corruption(which includes corrupt leaders,warlords/armed thugs etc...)that currently plagues the African continent,and the peoples might have a chance but until then,I don't see much more in the way of contribution to the world in general

[Player]

I fail to understand how some people are naive enough to blame it all on colonialism. IMO colonialism has done more good than bad to Africa. Or is it just an excuse to ignore the bitter truth that maybe Africans are themselves responsible for the reality they are in?

[Mordoror]

I fail to understand how some people are naive enough to blame it all on colonialism. IMO colonialism has done more good than bad to Africa. Or is it just an excuse to ignore the bitter truth that maybe Africans are themselves responsible for the reality they are in?

it is never so simple ....
colonialism brought infrastructures, schools, hospitals, railroads ....(that's may be evaluated as the good part)
but it destroyed cultures that were adapted to the African soil

for example before european powers invasion, most of the African nations were centralized on very small cities, far from certain areas

after the came of the Europeans, those traditionals state organizations were ermoved and most of the population was grouped in big european style cities that are not suited for the African conditions (heat, humidity, grouping so much inhabitants on a same area leads to more infectious disease spreading

Moreover, whereas at that time the countries were self sufficient for food, european countries developped mono cultures for their own interest (banana or cacao or whatever)
now that those european conquerors have left, monocultures are a scourge because they do not feed the population

of course if you had the either lines of battle during the cold war (support from the West or Est for any of the African govs leading to regional struggles and authoritarians leaders) then you have the nowadays picture

on the other side, all those african "elites" are also highly corrupted by their own and that does not help to developp tehri countries

the situation is neither black or white but if you go back in the history you can see that decisions made hundred years ago still have some influence on teh African nations developpment capabilities

read or re-read "guns, steel and germs" it's a good overview of why European countries leaded the world and why now some "tropical" countries (including in Africa) are not well armed in our globalized civilization

[smalandian]

Mordoror: That's my view also.

But I suspect that Afrika must in many way "help themself", instead of "pointing finger" toward the rest of the world.

[joedamage]

I can't argue with anything you've stated simply as I have not taken those positions.

Argh... okay, your clever argument has one the day. I must have misunderstood that stuff about "non-europeans".


But its a bit hard for 'Africa' to claim credit for what a small group of white scientists did in South Africa.

Well, if they're South Africans, and South Africa is Africa, then its not all that hard. It is never questioned that the USA was responsible for getting a man to the moon, even though for many years the head of their rocketry program was a German, who previously built rockets for the Nazis.



Enlighten us all as to your esteemed contributions to mankind.

I think you've got it! My personal contributions probably add up to nil as do yours most likely. My question was really just rhetorical. A way to ask if you are a moaner or a doer. It sounds like you're a moaner. Some people achieve loads of stuff others very little or nothing. Its just that forum topics like this seem more divisive than useful. Some parts of Africa need help not pathetic bitches whining about who does what. There are loads of smart people in Africa. All parts of Africa. If any of you have ever actually been here, you'll notice that the people are just people like you and I. Their situation, the situation into which every single one of them was born, is probably 50 times tougher and 50 times more brutal than you will ever know. Its really easy for you to sit there and pontificate about who invented what, and feel all satisfied at being white and living in a modern country and having dinner made by mommy. Its so damn easy.

Colonialism did plenty of damage. Truck loads. What do you think Belgium, England, Germany, France and Spain were doing in Africa? They weren't here on holiday. The only roads they supervised the building of, were the roads leading to the rubber, diamond and mineral resources. And the locals, who did all the labour are supposed to be thankful for that? The only education handed out was to teach the locals enough to manage the other locals in the mines and rubber plantations. The hospitals were built for the colonisers and somewhat reluctantly extended to the indigenous population when the missionaries insisted. All the while, they destroyed traditional cultures without thinking twice. No-one was asked "Do you mind if we burn down your village and move you over to the crap part of the country?". Hell, borders were created based entirely on where the colonial powers' influence ended and began. Imagine some well armed foreigners arrived in your area and dividing it up arbitrarily and enforcing the borders by shooting your family when they try to get back home. Its well established fact that there was slavery in Africa before the white man came and grabbed a whole bunch of people, but nothing even close to the scale and ruthlessness with which it was carried out by the european countries. During the cold war, the only thing that was in abundance in Africa was CIA/KGB agents and weapons. Thats not a very easy environment in which to become a stable continent. The US and Russia are squarely to blame for turning Africa into a playground for issues that had nothing to do with it.

There are many, simple ways in which the western world could be helping Africa instead of asking dumb questions. These things could be achieved without asking anyone in this forum to lift a finger, but the greed and self-interest in the west seems to be as prevalent as in Africa, so I guess very little will ever be done.

[sexyhamburger]

There are many, simple ways in which the western world could be helping Africa instead of asking dumb questions. These things could be achieved without asking anyone in this forum to lift a finger, but the greed and self-interest in the west seems to be as prevalent as in Africa, so I guess very little will ever be done.

What are they if you don't mind me asking? Not trying to attack you or anything but I would like to see your rationale

[Calanen]

Well, if they're South Africans, and South Africa is Africa, then its not all that hard. It is never questioned that the USA was responsible for getting a man to the moon, even though for many years the head of their rocketry program was a German, who previously built rockets for the Nazis.


That's gold right there. It was the Nazi NASA space program..... You've committed a number of logical fallacies. All dogs are mammals, Joedamage is a mammal, Joedamage must be a dog etc...they teach you these things in Philosophy 101.



I think you've got it! My personal contributions probably add up to nil as do yours most likely.


Sure. Whatever you say.

My guess is you are a kid who plays counterstrike and mouths of on the internet, and cannot really say they've done anything significant, for anyone ever...let alone for mankind.

[Skutatos]

What has the world given to Africa? Besides guns, colonies, slavery, disease and misery? Not a lot.

Africa did much of that to itself long before anyone else did, except the guns, the arabs brought them those(originally), not that they need them, since in Rwanda the majority of killings were with machetes. Mostly in north africa did these things occur though(before western colonialism).

[joedamage]

That's gold right there. It was the Nazi NASA space program.....Go look up Wernher Von Braun and get back to me.


You've committed a number of logical fallacies. All dogs are mammals, Joedamage is a mammal, Joedamage must be a dog etc...they teach you these things in Philosophy 101.What exactly are the logical fallacies I've committed? I think it stands to reason that if a South African invents something and South Africa is an African country (it is, isn't it?) then the invention can also be considered to come from Africa. Its not coming from America is it? Nothing wrong with my logic here... looks like you need to go back to philosophy 101 and figure out just exactly what they meant there... didn't really pay attention did you? Just enough to impress your friends, huh?


My guess is you are a kid who plays counterstrike and mouths of on the internet, and cannot really say they've done anything significant, for anyone ever...let alone for mankind.I suppose you're entitled to your guess.


What are they if you don't mind me asking? Not trying to attack you or anything but I would like to see your rationaleI think trade tariffs on agricultural products and subsidies for farmers in developed countries should go. Developed countries might consider not subsidising their own farmers if farming is not commercially viable. Any system that needs to be artificially propped up is going to suffer from market effects eventually. As soon as demand rises and prices climb, subsidies will become untenable. Let Africa grow the food. It has the land and the much cheaper labout to do this. Trade tariffs are more political than practical. Africa has so much arable land its not even funny. Most of it is not being farmed because of conflict, but thats another matter. Africa in general could become another breadbasket for the world, if western countries would allow African produce to pass into their countries without exorbitant trade tariffs. South Africa exports all of it's finest fruit and vegetables already, but the farmers can barely make a living on this because of the tariffs.

How about actually, really developing the mineral resources in Africa. There are tons of examples of companies exploiting Africa's natural resources. Thats not even a point of contention. Instability works in a diamond/oil/mineral mining company's favour. As long as they can secure a port and the resource itself, the rest of the country can go to hell as far as they are concerned. (And it often does...) When westerners moan about African corruption, lets not forget that its western companies that rely on these corrupt eco-systems to make massive profits. A completely stable and incorruptable government would be a government which would refuse to let a company like Shell syphon off it's natural oil riches. These companies could go a long way to becoming a part of the solution, perhaps by funnelling some of the proceeds of their mining towards development of other industries locally.

One of the key problems here of course is that Africa does very little processing of the minerals and oil it supplies. This would be a big asset to Africa. Instead of pumping crude oil into a ship bound for Canada (sorry nothing personal... referring to Shell Canada), why not do more of the processing here.

Some of the other things that could be done include being serious about brokering peace. The UN barely bats an eyelid when a region in Africa is heading towards war. There are enough examples and enough books written about the UN's unwillingness to deploy peace keepers in Africa. At the same time as the west accuses Africans of not respecting life, African dead barely register on the radar for the west.

I could go on, but my guess is no one else is really interested.

[Skutatos]

That's gold right there. It was the Nazi NASA space program..... You've committed a number of logical fallacies. All dogs are mammals, Joedamage is a mammal, Joedamage must be a dog etc...they teach you these things in Philosophy 101.


They also teach you that what's logical isn't neccesarily practical, and also that its downright false in many cases.

[Calanen]

I suppose you're entitled to your guess.


My guess was right, because it was the thing you mouthed off least about. You wanted to make a big deal about how someone else had contributed nothing to society, and then when you were called on it.. you had nothing. Prove me wrong - post your CV right here.

[joedamage]

My guess was right, because it was the thing you mouthed off least about. You wanted to make a big deal about how someone else had contributed nothing to society, and then when you were called on it.. you had nothing. Prove me wrong - post your CV right here.

Hey! I didn't say I had contributed anything. (Nothing really meaningful anyway) Do you know what the word "rhetorical" even means? Have you ever heard of "introspection"? Have you ever asked yourself whether you're actually the amazing person you think you are? Do I have to explain this even more?

BTW: Have you looked up Wernher Von Braun yet?

[Skutatos]

Von Braun's work was originally based heavily on that of Goddard (an AMERICAN). So does that make the NAZI rocket program American?

[joedamage]

No, the Nazi rocket program was the Nazi rocket program. The US rocket programs were US rocket programs. I was just pointing out that its not considered relevant where the "heads of the program" or "researchers" come from, more where the work ends up being done. (See the CAT scan thing... South African researcher, but the CAT scan is still considered an English invention (even though I mistakenly first attributed it to South Africa...) I never said it was the "Nazi Nasa space program", that came from Calanen. All scientific research is based on other research before it, but the person who makes the breakthrough gets the credit... sucks, but thats the way it seems to happen...

[Rudolph]

It's just such a bloody coincidence that all those wonderful medical and technological achievements that enriched the whole world were invented during 46 years of Afrikaner rule in South Africa... Just a coincidence, really.

[Mordoror]

It's just such a bloody coincidence that all those wonderful medical and technological achievements that enriched the whole world were invented during 46 years of Afrikaner rule in South Africa... Just a coincidence, really.

not the point here

does SA belongs geographically to the African continent yes or no ??
if yes (and it is yes) the achievments done here were done in Africa whatever was the gov white or black or green with purple spots

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Interesting discussion. A couple of points I'd like to address.

First, this is a discussion about culture, not race, IMO. Take an African out of Africa, and he or she (gasp) could design the next big thing.

Islands of external culture in Africa are the exception that proves the rule unfortunately. They're places where colonialism took hold so the culture is alien to the rest of Africa.

Regarding the rocket discussion - both the US and Germany are products of European culture, who cares which side of the pond got there first. Sure, the next thing we did after perfecting rockets was to put bombs on them, but we've managed a decent level of prosperity.

As I said - I don't expect Africa to produce scientific wonders - if they could just feed themselves - be self-sufficient that would be a huge stride.

It almost seems like we lack the courage to do what's right. I mean, say what you will about humanity's colonial period - but if one looks at those places where it took hold...they're not doing too badly. Today, we've got much of Africa culturally where is was hundreds of years ago, and it's now seen as inappropriate to ask them to do things the rest of us take for granted (i.e. only producing children you can care for, caring for the ones you do produce, creating a sustainable system that feeds everybody etc.). To tell them their way is no good amounts to telling them that we think they're inferior, which is a cardinal sin under our system today.

[joedamage]

It's just such a bloody coincidence that all those wonderful medical and technological achievements that enriched the whole world were invented during 46 years of Afrikaner rule in South Africa... Just a coincidence, really.Yeah... and what if I said all those things were invented by English speakers or Jews or Muslims or University of Cape Town graduates or all Manchester United supporters... what would that mean? Its still Africa. Its really your choice at what level or what delimiter you use to define the achievements. If the question is, "What has Africa contributed to the world", then those are your answers. If you want to turn the question into a racial one, then perhaps your question should be "What have whites/blacks contributed to the world"?

Mordoror: you seem to have said it so much simpler. :)

Its so tiring to see people say things like this as if they're don't attach some very specific and racist meaning and then they protest "I didn't say that". Sure bud. You didn't say it, but there are many levels to communication... you know you meant it and we're not idiots.

[Rudolph]

The Fischer-Tropsch process? These are Germans!

Indeed correct, my friend. It's just that after WW2 no one else was interested in using the technology. But because South Africa was in the unique position of having little or no natural oil, and facing embargoes, the necessity forced them to implement and improve the technology and till today have the world's most advanced coal-to-liquid fuel infrastructure. And Sasol is generating billions of $'s these days exporting it to other nations such as China and America.

[Rudolph]

Interesting discussion. A couple of points I'd like to address.

First, this is a discussion about culture, not race, IMO. Take an African out of Africa, and he or she (gasp) could design the next big thing.

Islands of external culture in Africa are the exception that proves the rule unfortunately. They're places where colonialism took hold so the culture is alien to the rest of Africa.

I agree. That's why one ALWAYS seperates North Africa from Sub-saharan Africa. They are two completely different worlds. Nothing to do with skin colour...

[Rudolph]

Yeah... and what if I said all those things were invented by English speakers or Jews or Muslims or University of Cape Town graduates or all Manchester United supporters... what would that mean? Its still Africa. Its really your choice at what level or what delimiter you use to define the achievements. If the question is, "What has Africa contributed to the world", then those are your answers. If you want to turn the question into a racial one, then perhaps your question should be "What have whites/blacks contributed to the world"?

Mordoror: you seem to have said it so much simpler. :)

Its so tiring to see people say things like this as if they're don't attach some very specific and racist meaning and then they protest "I didn't say that". Sure bud. You didn't say it, but there are many levels to communication... you know you meant it and we're not idiots.

So if an American company establishes a company in Ghana, and all the scientists are Americans, it's a Ghanan invention? Your logic sucks. You just don't like the fact that 2 million white South Africans contributed more technologically to the world in a few short years than the rest of Sub-saharan Africa's 100 millions, regardless of race, contributed since recorded history. That is not racist, but simply factual. Interpret that as truth however you wish. Never be afraid of the truth, it sets you free....

[Mordoror]

So if an American company establishes a company in Ghana, and all the scientists are Americans, it's a Ghanan invention? Your logic sucks.again what don't you understand in the label South Africa ?
This country belonged to african continent no ??
the inventions (some of which you can be proud of, especially because done under an embargo) were done in a country which belong to the african continent no ?
your example is false, your scientists were not imported, most of them were born, worked and died in Africa
and if i take your kind of example back, because Wangarii Maathai received her Nobel Price in Stockholm make her price stated as european ??

sorry but i really do not see what is shameful for a south african to accept the fact that its country belongs to Africa (the continent, the geographical block...we are not here talking about politic system, culture or whatever)

[GETSOME]

Africa gave us plunder and easy victories .
Spot on ,mate.

[GETSOME]

Reading, writing. And the ability to plan that comes with that. The wheel. modern medicine. Surgery. Better childbirthing techniques lowering mother/infant mortality. Roads. Hospitals. The ability to realise there are other continents and people in the world. Heck, the ability to travel effeciently beyond the next few villages. Mathematics. Transport-trains, cars, aircraft, sea-going vessels, the bicycle. Permanent shelter. Electricity. Refridgeration. Corn (maize) Communications. Organised education. The telephone. The computer. The pen/pencil....... I can go on all day if you want me to.

I cannot believe you wrote that without thinking....:roll:
Corn,was originally from the Americas.p-)

[joedamage]

So if an American company establishes a company in Ghana, and all the scientists are Americans, it's a Ghanan invention? Your logic sucks. You just don't like the fact that 2 million white South Africans contributed more technologically to the world in a few short years than the rest of Sub-saharan Africa's 100 millions, regardless of race, contributed since recorded history. That is not racist, but simply factual. Interpret that as truth however you wish. Never be afraid of the truth, it sets you free...Your logic is incorrect, not mine. The products of a country's citizens can reasonably be attributed to that country. I don't see how being specific about which grouping in the population is doing the work is in any way relevant unless you're trying to make a point about one of those groups. In this case, we were talking about work coming out of the continent of Africa. Afrikaners (and I think their name gives it away) also come from Africa, and therefore anything they produce can reasonably be attributed to Africa. If you don't like that, or see fit to seperate their accomplishments from other Africans in a discussion about African achievements, you're really just showing your colours. I am fully aware of who invented these things, but it doesn't make me look at those who didn't (you and me included) any differently, however, you seem to insist that this should somehow give everyone some kind of insight... what might that be?

Once again, Mordoror said it.

[Hot Lips]

It almost seems like we lack the courage to do what's right.

...

and it's now seen as inappropriate to ask them to do things the rest of us take for granted (i.e. only producing children you can care for, caring for the ones you do produce, creating a sustainable system that feeds everybody etc.). To tell them their way is no good amounts to telling them that we think they're inferior, which is a cardinal sin under our system today.

Population control isn't just a problem in Africa. China has population issues they've been dealing with for years. Here in America we have a population issue in the making.

I absolutely resent paying taxes on income I get off my ass to earn in order to support people that have more children than they can support. We've set up a system whereby people that can't afford children can receive additional assistance (via other tax payers) for having more children. I don't see places like Africa as being any different... people just keep holding out thier hand so long as someone else is putting forth the effort to put something in it.

I do think we compound the problem by incessantly supplimenting others failures to act responsibly for themselves. Sooner or later people have to step up and take ownership of their current situation instead of skirting responsibility by pointing to the past.

[Rudolph]

again what don't you understand in the label South Africa ?
This country belonged to african continent no ??
the inventions (some of which you can be proud of, especially because done under an embargo) were done in a country which belong to the african continent no ?
your example is false, your scientists were not imported, most of them were born, worked and died in Africa
and if i take your kind of example back, because Wangarii Maathai received her Nobel Price in Stockholm make her price stated as european ??

sorry but i really do not see what is shameful for a south african to accept the fact that its country belongs to Africa (the continent, the geographical block...we are not here talking about politic system, culture or whatever)

I understand 100% what you are saying. I simply do not agree. No one considered Rhodesia, South-West Africa, or pre-'94 South Africa as African countries. Because of the dominating culture in the government, which was clearly European in model. Where it gets tricky is after 1994, because we haven't magically stopped inventing things. All those industries still exist, and many are doing better now that they are free to trade with any country they wish to. Plus, they now have many more non-whites working for them, which means culture/race becomes much less important. Which I fully see as a good thing.

[Hot Lips]

On who gets credit for inventions. Credit, not ownership.

If an African born, raised, educated, and funded scientist invents something... I'd consider that an African invention. Kudos to Africa!

If that scientists knowledge was fostered by a European education, western funding, etc. It's a collaborative effort in my mind. Would that invention of come to fruition otherwise?

The United States employs scientists from around the world. Some of whom were raised elsewhere, but educated here, some were both raised and educated elsewhere. The United States gets the credit for bringing those great minds together and funding their efforts..... but you can't dismiss the individuals nor the institutions that educated them as having a role as well. Would the invention have come to fruition without them?

If I move to another country and invent something, my invention is not the product of that country simply because I'm on their soil. I am not the product of that country, therefore my inventions are not either.

[joedamage]

I understand 100% what you are saying. I simply do not agree. No one considered Rhodesia, South-West Africa, or pre-'94 South Africa as African countries.

I'm sorry, who is this no one? I was always taught that they are all fixed permanently to the African continent! :)



Where it gets tricky is after 1994, because we haven't magically stopped inventing things. All those industries still exist, and many are doing better now that they are free to trade with any country they wish to. Plus, they now have many more non-whites working for them, which means culture/race becomes much less important. Which I fully see as a good thing.

I guess we can conclude that South Africa is still fully attached to Africa then... in what sense did it ever matter who was ruling? Achievements from this country were and always will be African as well.

[kinney_bmx]

So if an American company establishes a company in Ghana, and all the scientists are Americans, it's a Ghanan invention? Your logic sucks. You just don't like the fact that 2 million white South Africans contributed more technologically to the world in a few short years than the rest of Sub-saharan Africa's 100 millions, regardless of race, contributed since recorded history. That is not racist, but simply factual. Interpret that as truth however you wish. Never be afraid of the truth, it sets you free....
I agree with you 100% right there. If it was all american scientists it is a american invention if its french scientists its a french invention german german spanish spanish and so on
Just because it comes from a country in africa doesnt make it a african invention. Now if a group of lets say nigerian scientists invented something it would be a african invention. Location doesnt really matter
atleast in my eyes it all depends on who made it.
And like hot lips said if it was a mixture of people its a colaboration or however you spell it

joedamage. Its Rudolphs opinion on things and even though i share his opinion it isnt going to be shared by everybody. You have your opinion and he has his

[Rudolph]

I'm sorry, who is this no one? I was always taught that they are all fixed permanently to the African continent! :)

According to every major newspaper, magazine, the UN, etc. these countries were not run by Africans. Therefore all the noise for decades on end.... The fact that the (white) rulers were born in Africa never seemed to matter to anyone, the exact opposite of your argument.


I guess we can conclude that South Africa is still fully attached to Africa then... in what sense did it ever matter who was ruling? Achievements from this country were and always will be African as well.

Except, the only difference between South Africa and the rest of continent is that it had the largest amount of Europeans, and if they had never came, no invention would have occurred. Unless you assume the natives would've made a quantum leap of 1000's of years by themselves in 350 years.... That's all I'm saying, without the Europeans South Africa would've been nothing.

[joedamage]

Except, the only difference between South Africa and the rest of continent is that it had the largest amount of Europeans, and if they had never came, no invention would have occurred. Unless you assume the natives would've made a quantum leap of 1000's of years by themselves in 350 years.... That's all I'm saying, without the Europeans South Africa would've been nothing.Well! There you go! You see, I don't differ with you on who did the work! I am well aware of the various inventors etc. I know that they are largley white, but thats not the issue. Why should we care? If they are Africans, why the hell should we care if they're white? You seem to care a whole lot! So much, in fact, that you have to emphasise what would have happened without them! How is an invention by a South African, not an invention by an African? Do you not consider yourself an African, given that you live in Africa? If not, what do you consider yourself?

[Rudolph]

Well! There you go! You see, I don't differ with you on who did the work! I am well aware of the various inventors etc. I know that they are largley white, but thats not the issue. Why should we care? If they are Africans, why the hell should we care if they're white? You seem to care a whole lot! So much, in fact, that you have to emphasise what would have happened without them! How is an invention by a South African, not an invention by an African? Do you not consider yourself an African, given that you live in Africa? If not, what do you consider yourself?

No, I'm an Afrikaner, not an African. I do not believe in magic, ghosts of my forefathers, having 10 wives, undemocratic birth-right tribal leaders, etc. those are all African beliefs/culture. Someone might live next to me, but we'd still be living in two different worlds.

[SilverBoy]

Well I'm a white South African and I consider myself African. It all depends on your own personal opinions and beliefs. If one thinks African refers to purely the initial native populations so be it, if they are like me so be it :)

Besides I think it's better to think of oneself as a African than a "soutie" :P

Although Rudolph, it seems pretty obvious that joedamage means just in from the geographic Africa, without giving consideration to culture etc.

[joedamage]

joedamage. Its Rudolphs opinion on things and even though i share his opinion it isnt going to be shared by everybody. You have your opinion and he has his

Hey, of course! We're discussing. Thats what happens when people with different opinions meet. They discuss and maybe, sometimes, when one learns new things, one's opinions change.

[joedamage]

No, I'm an Afrikaner, not an African. I do not believe in magic, ghosts of my forefathers, having 10 wives, undemocratic birth-right tribal leaders, etc. those are all African beliefs/culture.

We might even add "Afrikaner" as an African culture, since it exists nowhere else except on the African continent. I am white, South African and also consider myself African. Its the continent on which I was born. No one will mistake me for a black person. And I think that you're mistaken if you think that all African's are the way you say they are. Even black Africans.

[BlisteringFreakachu]

How about we all agree that non-whites, especially blacks are inherently inferior to the master race. The lack of inventions on the African continent is proof of this. Because more white people have invented things, this proves that we are better and that our lives are worth far more. We should recolonize the world, as it is apparent that they are, for the most part, incapable of running themselves. There are very few non-white successes. South Africa should be returned to Apartheid. If people were truly angry about it, they would've just protested or something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations

[The Balkan]

Ok so "what has Africa contributed" is basicly turned into "what have Black people contributed".

The answer is plenty. Look up Black inventors, writers, artists, musicians etc.

[Mordoror]

How about we all agree that non-whites, especially blacks are inherently inferior to the master race. The lack of inventions on the African continent is proof of this. Because more white people have invented things, this proves that we are better and that our lives are worth far more. We should recolonize the world, as it is apparent that they are, for the most part, incapable of running themselves. There are very few non-white successes. South Africa should be returned to Apartheid. If people were truly angry about it, they would've just protested or something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations

:cantbeli::cantbeli:

Hope for you it is ironic ....

[GETSOME]

No, I'm an Afrikaner, not an African. I do not believe in magic, ghosts of my forefathers, having 10 wives, undemocratic birth-right tribal leaders, etc. those are all African beliefs/culture. Someone might live next to me, but we'd still be living in two different worlds.
If you were born in Africa,you are African.p-)

[farmgirl]

How about we all agree that non-whites, especially blacks are inherently inferior to the master race. The lack of inventions on the African continent is proof of this. Because more white people have invented things, this proves that we are better and that our lives are worth far more. We should recolonize the world, as it is apparent that they are, for the most part, incapable of running themselves. There are very few non-white successes. South Africa should be returned to Apartheid. If people were truly angry about it, they would've just protested or something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations

How about... we agree that you're a racist idiot?

[GETSOME]

How about... we agree that you're a racist idiot?
X2,rofl
this post is going no where.

[farmgirl]

I'm inclined to close this thread... I'll be watching.

[BlisteringFreakachu]

How about... we agree that you're a racist idiot?

I only thought I was reflecting the majority opinion!

[2Sheds_Jackson]

No, I'm an Afrikaner, not an African. I do not believe in magic, ghosts of my forefathers, having 10 wives, undemocratic birth-right tribal leaders, etc. those are all African beliefs/culture. Someone might live next to me, but we'd still be living in two different worlds.

good post - very true. It still amazes me to read stories of what goes on in some of these nations - where AIDS infected men run around having *** with young virgins because they've heard it will cure them - all kinds of bizarre witchcraft and weirdness etc.


Ok so "what has Africa contributed" is basicly turned into "what have Black people contributed".

The answer is plenty. Look up Black inventors, writers, artists, musicians etc.

We've already established that it's not a question of race. A black man born in Europe or the US or China may be no more "African" than I am. (Curiously, a few years ago here in the US, a white child who had immigrated from South Africa (he was born there) entered an "African American" an art contest in his school...then was quickly disqualified because he wasn't what they meant by African American. He was the only kid in the class who was from Africa...who had ever been to Africa at all...go figure.

I'd urge everybody trying to balance their argument on the pin-head of semantics...on the geographic boundaries of the African continent to go back to the original article. He's talking about the nations run by indigenous people who have not adopted elements of the evil outside colonial system etc.. South Africa (for example) does not go begging for food, does not ask for debt forgiveness, is not featured on TV with starved fly-encrusted children. If the best you can do is to play a semantics game and try to distort what the author means by Africa, then you're already acknowledging that he's right.

[BlisteringFreakachu]

How about we all agree that non-whites, especially blacks are inherently inferior to the master race. The lack of inventions on the African continent is proof of this. Because more white people have invented things, this proves that we are better and that our lives are worth far more. We should recolonize the world, as it is apparent that they are, for the most part, incapable of running themselves. There are very few non-white successes. South Africa should be returned to Apartheid. If people were truly angry about it, they would've just protested or something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations


NOTE: This post was purely satirical, incase you couldn't tell from the "If people were truly angry about [Apartheid], they would've just protested or something." Sorry if anyone was offended.

[farmgirl]

NOTE: This post was purely satirical, incase you couldn't tell from the "If people were truly angry about [Apartheid], they would've just protested or something." Sorry if anyone was offended.


You must remember that sarcasm doesn't often translate well in writing.
Be careful...
Thank you for the explanation.
Infraction lifted

[Hot Lips]

We need tags. :)

[farmgirl]

We need tags. :)

exactly... I normally use the eye roll... just to make sure I'm making myself clear...

[Hollis]

I only thought I was reflecting the majority opinion!


1) either back this up with facts or. Also you compared this forum to "Stormfront", that is a big insult to all members here. I don't know you or what type of game your playing. Throw this crap out again on this forum, you will be gone.

Maybe also go back and read the rules of this forum.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1554

[BlisteringFreakachu]

1) either back this up with facts or. Also you compared this forum to "Stormfront", that is a big insult to all members here. I don't know you or what type of game your playing. Throw this crap out again on this forum, you will be gone.

Maybe also go back and read the rules of this forum.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1554


NOTE: This post was purely satirical, incase you couldn't tell from the "If people were truly angry about [Apartheid], they would've just protested or something." Sorry if anyone was offended.

Incase you missed it...

[Hollis]

Incase you missed it...


I did not miss that, I also read some of your other posts, in other threads.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=134085

[BlisteringFreakachu]

I did not miss that, I also read some of your other posts, in other threads.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=134085

That was in response to replies that were remarkably similar to those of the neo-Nazis or "white nationalists" of Stormfront, such as this one:


but when their greatest technological achievement in last couple of millenia consists of tying a string to a rock and throwing it at a bird, I think it's fair to say they haven't developed quite as much as Western civilization.

Which is obviously a remarkably gross and vicious attack on the achievements of Africa thus far.

I found such posts on the subject absolutely abhorrent, and therefore responded by comparing them to people who seem to share similar ideals at Stormfront. Naturally, I find such ideas absurd.

Also, if you didn't miss the satire, why did you ask me to provide "facts" for my satirical claims?

[drevil5000]

If you were born in Africa,you are African.p-)

LOL, tell that to the south african government.

[Hollis]

Look, at the order your post were made. No one else took it as satire, YOU had to explain that it was. I stated I did not miss your post, I did not state I accepted it to be satire. Combined with some of your other comments, I wonder.

[BlisteringFreakachu]

Look, at the order your post were made. No one else took it as satire, YOU had to explain that it was. I stated I did not miss your post, I did not state I accepted it to be satire. Combined with some of your other comments, I wonder.

As far as I'm aware, many South Africans were rather upset about Apartheid. It's remarkably clear from the fact that I implied that people weren't upset at Apartheid. Being that I have a great deal of black African heritage, and because I'm a passionate anti-racist, I fail to see why I would promote racism on here. If you actually think I believe that Apartheid wasn't upsetting to many people, then you should recognize satire better. OR you can believe in some conspiracy painting me as a secret racist that comes on here to promote a racist agenda. Either way will do.

[Hollis]

Read my post very carefully,



1) either back this up with facts or. Also you compared this forum to "Stormfront", that is a big insult to all members here. I don't know you or what type of game your playing. Throw this crap out again on this forum, you will be gone.

Maybe also go back and read the rules of this forum.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1554



Now how the hell do you come up that I eluded to this post. You called this forum being similar/same as Stormfront and then add your statement; "I only thought I was reflecting the majority opinion!" You are the one who is accusing the members of this forum and this forum as being racists.



As far as I'm aware, many South Africans were rather upset about Apartheid. It's remarkably clear from the fact that I implied that people weren't upset at Apartheid. Being that I have a great deal of black African heritage, and because I'm a passionate anti-racist, I fail to see why I would promote racism on here. If you actually think I believe that Apartheid wasn't upsetting to many people, then you should recognize satire better. OR you can believe in some conspiracy painting me as a secret racist that comes on here to promote a racist agenda. Either way will do.

[The Dane]

Also you compared this forum to "Stormfront", that is a big insult to all members here

X2
BIG insult, that forum is retarded.

[Dinges]

I am African , and proud to be an African. I have seen a lot of the posters so long throwing around the race card. And you know what , it really gets up my nose.

Playing chess being the Castle on the outskirts does not help at all. Being RIGHTEOUS and PC in your arguments still means sweet blow bugger-all on the ground. Playing the race card might get you somewhere in your side of the woods , but over here it means as much as a mouse fart. Sometimes being realistic can come over in your milieu as PC incorrect... Well wake up , look up and see the vultures.

[Rudolph]

In BlisteringFreakachu's defence, he's not racist, he was being sarcastic. In fact, he was once suspended for posting anti-white comments about South Africans. Furthermore, it has always, and will always, be about culture, not race. I don't have black friends because I haven't found black people here who like listening to Swedish metal and watching Asian art films. If I meet one, I will hook up. Promise.

[Rudolph]

I know what this thead has turned into, and I feel partly responsible. But when people post nonsensical posts, I cannot help myself. All that people need to do is move to Africa for a few years. They will change their minds pretty quickly. Yet, they will also realize that it's not about genetics, but education and culture.

[Ali Baba]

What has Africa Givin the World?


ME! The greatest and bestest creations of them all :P

[Winger]

In BlisteringFreakachu's defence, he's not racist, he was being sarcastic. In fact, he was once suspended for posting anti-white comments about South Africans. Furthermore, it has always, and will always, be about culture, not race. I don't have black friends because I haven't found black people here who like listening to Swedish metal and watching Asian art films. If I meet one, I will hook up. Promise.

Agreed 100%. Culture, mindset & attitude.

[deagle]

pro sports ?? laughs aside, they have made NUMEROUS contributions to the world.

[name already taken]

It should read:

"What has Africa contributed to the world according to (...fill the blank ...)."

[Masai]

Africa has given the world the most precious gift of all...


AIDS !!!


the legal way to kill of the weak, useless and pathetic in any economy !!!!

[Abbadon the Despoiler]

^ ****.......

[helomech]

I found this,form your own opinion;to me it seems to be mostly Egyptian history,but this guy is lumping it together as African contributions

http://www.africawithin.com/jochannan/drben_african_contribution_to_tech.htm

[shilka234]

It reminds me of the scene in "Life of Brian"...

"Alright, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a freshwater system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"

"Brought peace?"

"Shut up!"

Really smart movie... good laught all time!

[iLikeFlickerstick]

Africa has given the world the most precious gift of all...


AIDS !!!


the legal way to kill of the weak, useless and pathetic in any economy !!!!

LOL.

anywhoooo... yeah Africa is RICH with many precious natural resources, including metals, uranium, oil and healthy soil!! So I guess through exploitation by foreign govs and multi-nationals, Africa gives the world those things.

[Mastermind]

I think a whole more important question might be, "What WILL Africa contribute someday?"

Africa, right now is a social nightmare. But, it has isolated treasure ponds of innovative, hard working, highly intelligent people filled with joy and impressive fortitude. If those places ever get to develop into successful examples that are immulated rather than destroyed in jealous rages, we might see something really astonishing rise out of Africa.

I for one fear for the magnificent animals that Africa has. I fear for the wilderness and the massive abundance of resources. I am saddened by the plight of the people who suffer so much war and famine and disease. Desperate people have no time to grow. They devour what ever they need to make to the next day...and that means Africa's beauty will not be preserved for future generations. Only wealthy people, secure in their endeavors can think of future generations.

[playtym]

Africa has given the world the most precious gift of all...


AIDS !!!


the legal way to kill of the weak, useless and pathetic in any economy !!!!

Do you remember back in the '80's when the government started their AIDS awareness program the acronym was said to stand for Afrikaner Invention to Deprive us of ***. Dumbasses were practically spreading AIDS as an act of civil disobedience.

"What? You want us to abstain from ***?"

"Just to spite you I'll have more ***!"

rofl

[ren0312]

3 silver medals.

[GETSOME]

In BlisteringFreakachu's defence, he's not racist, he was being sarcastic. In fact, he was once suspended for posting anti-white comments about South Africans. Furthermore, it has always, and will always, be about culture, not race. I don't have black friends because I haven't found black people here who like listening to Swedish metal and watching Asian art films. If I meet one, I will hook up. Promise.
You mean you have white friends that like that ****?:)

[Rudolph]

[/b]
You mean you have white friends that like that ****?:)

Exactly.... I've got one, somewhere, promise... :)

[Angelino]

In BlisteringFreakachu's defence, he's not racist, he was being sarcastic. In fact, he was once suspended for posting anti-white comments about South Africans. Furthermore, it has always, and will always, be about culture, not race. I don't have black friends because I haven't found black people here who like listening to Swedish metal and watching Asian art films. If I meet one, I will hook up. Promise.
I can deal with the Swedish metal thing -- (Hell, I've shared beers with members of Hammerfall and Stratovarius (Jens is swedish) myself, have pics to prove it :)), but what's with the Asian art film thingy though?? Only Asian films worth watching are kung-fu movies, of which I own a huge collection.

[matthew.manhorn]

*looks at the thread title*

When the hell did Stormfront members infiltrate into MP.net?

Africa's responsible for the prosperity of western and eastern civilization.\

North Africans such as Egyptians contributed a lot to this world.

Subsaharan Africans, well diamonds and jewlery...

[Doublethinker]

*looks at the thread title*

When the hell did Stormfront members infiltrate into MP.net?

Africa's responsible for the prosperity of western and eastern civilization.\

North Africans such as Egyptians contributed a lot to this world.

Subsaharan Africans, well diamonds and jewlery...

And how about the 90% in the middle between the two? :)

[Rudolph]

I can deal with the Swedish metal thing -- (Hell, I've shared beers with members of Hammerfall and Stratovarius (Jens is swedish) myself, have pics to prove it :)), but what's with the Asian art film thingy though?? Only Asian films worth watching are kung-fu movies, of which I own a huge collection.

I have more kung fu films than art films from those regions!! Still hard to find people who like them, especially women.

[Rudolph]

And how about the 90% in the middle between the two? :)

I'm glad that South Africa is still keeping its defence industry going. It might have gone from being the 8th biggest to the top 20 somewhere, but they're still leading the way here and there. Our mine-protected vehicles still sell well to the overseas markets, our aerospace deals for helicopters and jet fighters are global, our artillery is still awesome - just wait for the finished G7, we recently created the first synthetic jet fuel...

Sasol is still the world leader in coal-to-liquid fuel technology and have signed big billion dollar deals in China and the Middle-East, we recently had 3 universities make it to the world top 500, NASA still has lots of projects for the post-gradutate students at Stellenbosch, a South African is head of the world's first medical-nanotechnology firm in the USA, a local professor invented the newest solar panels, a guy from Pretoria has his own space firm in the USA, we are a world-leader in rugby and cricket... the list goes on. While many things have gone down the crapper, some areas have been maintained, and others have even flourished due to the unbanning of South Africa.

Other big countries have of course done much more than South Africa ever could, but for such a "small" country we have accomplished much during the 20th century, and the last decade.

[Piepalook]

Not to mention that the first heart transpland was done here by Dr. Chris Barnard,a South African. In 1967.

http://www.capegateway.gov.za/eng/pubs/public_info/C/99478


Groote Schuur Hospital (http://www.capegateway.gov.za/eng/your_gov/5972) (Department of Health, Provincial Government of the Western Cape)
AUTHOR: Cape Gateway

The World's First Heart Transplant
http://www.capegateway.gov.za/image/2005/2/washkansky.jpg
Mr Washkansky
Groote Schuur Hospital was placed centre stage in the world's spotlight when Professor Christiaan Barnard performed the first human heart transplant on the third of December 1967. Sadly, Mr Louis Washkansky (pictured left) only lived for 18 days, succumbing in the end to pneumonia. His new heart beat strongly to the end.
Transplaning Life - the Story of Chris Barnard
http://www.capegateway.gov.za/image/2005/2/barnard.gif
Chris Barnard
Christiaan Neethling Barnard was born in the town of Beaufort West, on the edge of the great Karoo, the dry and arid interior of South Africa, in 1922.His father was a preacher and there were 4 boys in the family. He did well at school , learned music and played sport, and decided on leaving school to study medicine at the University of Cape Town.
The Barnard family was not wealthy but managed to secure a 3 year scholarship. He stayed with his older brother and walked to the University. There was little money to spare and even less time for leisure. Another problem was language, as his mother tongue was Afrikaans, and he had to learn to express himself in English. After 6 years he graduated and did internship and residency at Groote Schuur Hospital and Peninsula Maternity. He then joined a colleague and moved to a small town, Ceres, and married Louwtjie.
The seeds of his future career were sown when one of his patients delivered a baby boy with a heart defect which could not be remedied. The baby died, causing him to think deeply about this and foresee the need for remedial surgery and the replacement of heart valves.
Back in Cape Town he studied further for his doctorate in Medicine, but heart surgery pre-occupied him. The heart-lung machine was in its infancy in the USA and considered too dangerous to use in surgical procedures. Chris proceeded with research and more study, working in converted rooms at night at minimal expense.
A turning point came when he was offered a chance to work in Minneapolis, USA, under Professor Wagensteen, a great teacher of experimental surgery. The heart lung machine was perfected and this was the gateway to cardiac surgery. The idea of transplanting occurred to Chris. If it was possible with kidneys, why not the heart? After more years of study in USA he returned to SA with a wonderful parting gift from Prof Wagensteen - a heart-lung machine.
Groote Schuur Hospital was waiting his return in 1958 to start the first heart unit to perform a cardiac bypass operation. The core of the heart transplant team of the future was formed when the heart lung machine arrived. Chris was again involved in much experimental work and research, and took courses in immunology in USA where immuno -suppressive agents had been developed.
Transplant Prelude Back in SA he prepared for kidney transplants and built up surgical expertise. From the legal aspect there had to be clear rules to remove organs from the human body and criterion of death. He performed the first kidney transplant at Groote Schuur on Mrs Edith Black and everything functioned perfectly. It was hailed as a major surgical event in SA. Professor Val Schrire, who had built up the Cardiac Clinic, was informed by Chris in October 1967:"Everything is ready for a heart transplant. We have the team and we know how to do it."
In November Prof Schrire called Chris and told him that there was a suitable patient for a heart transplant. Louis Washkansky was suffering from gross heart failure with a short time to live and was prepared to take the chance. One can say the rest is history. A series of events were set in motion which led to the first human heart transplant, a remarkable feat
A young woman, Denise Darvall, had been struck by a car and suffered severe brain damage. Her father did not hesitate when approached for permission to donate her organs. On 3 December 1967 the team emerged from 9 hours of operating and suddenly international attention was focused on Groote Schuur Hospital. The first heart transplant could not have been achieved without the skill and support of a large team - Cardiologists, Radiologists, Anaesthetists, Technicians, Nurses, Immunologists, Pathologists, and in particular, Prof Val Schrire, head of the Cardiac Clinic.
The original theatre where this transplant was performed has been turned into a museum (http://www.heartofcapetown.co.za/) in honour of these pioneers of medicine, and to the first donor and recipient.
Professor Christiaan Barnard passed away in Cyprus, Greece on 2 September 2001 from an acute asthma attack.

[Piepalook]

South African inventions


Where would you expect to find the inventor of the CAT scan, the makers of the "speed gun" used in cricket ovals the world over, or the world's first oil-from coal refinery?
There's a wide range of innovative and entrepreneurial activity in South Africa, backed up by a number of organisations (see box down right) that provide support for budding inventors and innovators.
Some of the world firsts South Africa can lay claim to are the following.
http://www.southafrica.info/cm_pics/doing_business/692-1827-2753-0_174910.jpg
CAT scan

The computed axial tomography scan, or CAT scan, was developed at Tufts University in the UK by South African physicist Allan Cormack and Godfrey Hounsfield of EMI Laboratories. Their achievement secured them the 1979 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine (http://www.nobel.se/medicine/laureates/1979/index.html).
Cormack's interest in the problem of X-ray imaging of soft tissues or layers of tissue of differing densities was first aroused when he took up the part-time position of physicist for a hospital radiology department.
The two-dimensional representations of conventional X-ray plates were often unable to distinguish between such tissues. More information could be gained if X-rays of the body were taken from several different directions, but conventional X-ray techniques made this procedure problematic.
In the early 1960s Cormack showed how details of a flat section of soft tissues could be calculated from measurements of the attenuation of X-rays passing through it from many different angles.

He thus provided the mathematical technique for the CAT scan, in which an X-ray source and electronic detectors are rotated about the body and the resulting data is analysed by a computer to produce a sharp map of the tissues within a cross-section of the body.


Nobel e-Museum: Allan Cormack (http://www.nobel.se/medicine/laureates/1979/index.html)
Source: Britannica.com
Oil from coal

Sasol is the world's first - and largest - oil-from-coal refinery. It is situated in Sasolburg in South Africa and provides 40% of the country's fuel.
The history of Sasol began in 1927 when a White Paper was tabled in Parliament to investigate the establishment of a South African oil-from-coal industry.
It was realised then that, because South Africa did not have crude oil reserves, the country's balance of payments had to be protected against increasing crude oil imports. After many years of research and international negotiations, the South African Coal Oil and Gas Corporation was formed in 1950.
Major milestones include the first automotive fuel (1955), the construction of the National Petroleum Refiners of South Africa (1967) and the establishment in 1990 of its first international marketing company, Sasol Chemicals Europe.

Sasol has developed world-leading technology for the conversion of low-grade coal into value-added synfuels and chemicals.


Sasol (http://www.sasol.com/)
http://www.southafrica.info/cm_pics/doing_business/692-1827-2753-0_174724.jpg
Heart transplant

The world's first heart transplant was performed by Dr Chris Barnard in Cape Town on 3 December 1967.
Barnard was born in the town of Beaufort West in 1922. The seeds of his future career were sown when one of his patients delivered a baby boy with a heart defect which could not be remedied. The baby died, causing him to think deeply about the need for remedial surgery and the replacement of heart valves.
A turning point came when Barnard was offered a chance to work in Minneapolis in the US under Professor Wagensteen, a great teacher of experimental surgery. The heart-lung machine was perfected, and this turned out to be the gateway to cardiac surgery.
The idea of transplanting occurred to Barnard. If it was possible with kidneys, why not the heart? After more years of study in the US, he returned to South Africa with a parting gift from Prof Wagensteen – a heart-lung machine.
Groote Schuur hospital was waiting his return in 1958 to start the first heart unit to perform a cardiac bypass operation.
After performing the first successful kidney transplant on Edith Black, in October 1967 Barnard informed Professor Val Schrire, who had built up the cardiac clinic: "Everything is ready for a heart transplant. We have the team and we know how to do it."
In November 1967, Schrire called Barnard and told him that there was a suitable patient for a heart transplant. Louis Washkansky was suffering from heart failure and was prepared to take the chance. The rest is history.
Barnard passed away in Cyprus, Greece on 2 September 2001 from an acute asthma attack.
Source: Groote Schuur hospital
Speed gun

The South African-made speed gun, developed by Somerset West inventor Henri Johnson, was formally launched at The Oval in England during the 1999 Cricket World Cup.
In 1992 Johnson invented the Speedball which was manufactured by South African firm Electronic Development House. The device accurately measures the speed and angles of speeding objects such as cricket and tennis balls.
Generally referred to as a "speed gun", Johnson's gizmo is sold in cricketing countries and in the US and Europe.
http://www.southafrica.info/cm_pics/doing_business/692-1827-2753-0_174718.jpg
Kreepy Krauly

The swimming pool vacuum cleaner was invented by Ferdinand Chauvier, a hydraulics engineer who came to South Africa from the Belgian Congo in 1951.
Chauvier quickly realised that there was a huge market for taking the hassle out of cleaning swimming pools, and went about inventing a machine that would do the job automatically, efficiently powered by the ordinary operation of the pool's filter.
But it wasn't until 1974 that the first Kreepy Krauly was born in Chauvier's Springs home.
He died in 1985, but Kreepy Kraulys continue to keep thousands of pools clean in South Africa and the world over.
APS therapy

Gervan Lubbe was flicking through an American medical journal one day when he stumbled across an article about pain relief. After reading all he could on the topic, he wondered whether it would be possible to electronically stimulate the body's natural nerve impulses to relieve pain.
Lubbe, had always had a keen interest in medicine, but never thought he was clever enough to be a doctor. So in his spare time he studied human anatomy and physiology until he thought he knew enough about the causes of arthritic pain. Then he set out inventing a device that would alleviate the problem.
After building the first prototypes and obtaining approval from the health department and the Food and Drug Administration in the United States, Lubbe formed the company Tech Pulse in 1993 to produce, market and distribute the Action Potential Stimulation device.

Today, Lubbe's devices are sold in 41 countries, including the US, Europe and the Middle East. In South Africa alone, over 40 000 people use the little machines to relieve pain.


APS Therapy (http://www.apstherapy.com/)
http://www.southafrica.info/cm_pics/doing_business/692-1827-2753-0_174726.jpg
Pratley Putty

Pratley's famous glue is the only South African invention that has been to the moon. In 1969 the putty was used to hold bits of the Apollo XI mission's Eagle landing craft together.
Krugersdorp engineer George Pratley invented his famous sticky stuff in the 1960s while looking for a glue that would hold components in an electrical box.

Pratley died in 1983 and today the company is run by his son, Kim. Hundreds of tons of Pratley putty have been exported all over the world, and the company has diversified into other products.


Pratley (http://www.pratley.co.za/)
Dolosse

Dolosse are large, unusually shaped concrete blocks weighing up to 20 tons. The structures are designed to break up wave action and protect harbour walls and coastal installations.
Designed by Eric Merrifield and first installed in East London harbour, they are now used all over the world.
The Coega Project, comprising an industrial development complex and deepwater port 20 kilometres east of the city of Port Elizabeth, recently made history with the casting of the biggest dolosse on the African continent.
The first of the 26 500 thirty-ton dolosse that will be used on the two breakwaters for the deep-water harbour of Ngqura have already been made.

According to Deon Retief, the partner responsible for the Nqura breakwater design at Prestedge Retief Dresner Wijnberg, the dolosse will form the top layer of the main breakwater which, at 2.5 kilometres long, is the "largest by far" in Africa.


Coega to create 'living reefs' (http://www.southafrica.info/what_happening/news/development_020403.htm)

[Piepalook]

http://www.airshows.co.za/photographers/airshow/klerksdorp/photos_2004/209b.jpg

Cheetah aircraft.

[Piepalook]

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/g6-LIWAR02.jpg

G6 self propelled howitzer.

[Piepalook]

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/rooivalk/images/rooivalk3.jpg

Rooivalk attack helicopter

[Rudolph]

Although we both know they were not referring to a small group of Europeans who maintained their way of living, but of the whole of sub-saharan Africa which is a bottomless pit of nothingness, no offence.

[Piepalook]

Although we both know they were not referring to a small group of Europeans who maintained their way of living, but of the whole of sub-saharan Africa which is a bottomless pit of nothingness, no offence.

True.
The rest of Africa is a bottomless pit of nothingness .
120 years ago the indigenous people could not read or write.
They havent invented the wheel yet.
Nor fire.
Fire had to be carried around,when it goes out, they had to wait for the next lightning strike.

[Rudolph]

True.
The rest of Africa is a bottomless pit of nothingness .
120 years ago the indigenous people could not read or write.
They havent invented the wheel yet.
Nor fire.
Fire had to be carried around,when it goes out, they had to wait for the next lightning strike.

Are you sure, I thought the big Zulu nations at least had fire? They had strategy, community, domesticated animals, they weren't all stone age, to be fair. But go a bit north from Southern Africa and you'll find that all the so-called ancient African civilizations were the ones who were ruled by the Arab slave traders, there were no indiginous tribes which progressed, besides for the North-Africans.

[name already taken]

Are you sure, I thought the big Zulu nations at least had fire? They had strategy, community, domesticated animals, they weren't all stone age, to be fair. But go a bit north from Southern Africa and you'll find that all the so-called ancient African civilizations were the ones who were ruled by the Arab slave traders, there were no indiginous tribes which progressed, besides for the North-Africans.
Some of the criticism against Africa might come
from groups in favor of maintaining some of
Africa's traditional ways of contributing to the
world, like providing slaves for the development
of other civilisations.

[DID]

http://www.airshows.co.za/photographers/airshow/klerksdorp/photos_2004/209b.jpg

Cheetah aircraft.
hey that's a mirage copy...

[DID]

Africa has at least given the world humans, diamonds and other gems, gold, oil, Charlize Theron etc.

Probably many inventions and other useful crap :)
No better to say the world stole to africa all these things.

[damagejackal]

Judging by the recent Olympics ...Lots of new world records an amazing feats of endurance + physicality.

[angry cow]

Ummm, I don't feel like reading through every single post, so I'm not sure that this has been mentioned, but I'm pretty sure that Africa contributed humanity to the world. Not even that long ago, every male on earth can attribute their lineage to a single male that lived in Africa 50,000 years ago. So they got that going for them . . .

In all seriousness, Africa is a hard place to live, to judge its inhabitants as backward or underdeveloped ignores the vast hurdles regarding lack of food, lack of water, lack of economic resources, diseases due to large amounts of humans and primates living in close proximity to each other. To be honest, the fact that the continent has survived into this millennium at all is a testament to human endurance and perseverance.

[Piepalook]

hey that's a mirage copy...

Not the same though.
80% rebuilt.
More powerfull engine as well as a closer turning circle.
It flies circles around a Mirage.
Also fitted with modern electronics.

It may look like a Mirage, but it most definately is not.

[Piepalook]

hey that's a mirage copy...

Here you can find more info on the aircraft.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_CAVA

[Rudolph]

SunSat:

“The Stellenbosch UNiversity SATellite is the first miniaturized satellite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniaturized_satellite) designed and manufactured in Africa. It was launched aboard a Delta II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_II) rocket from the Vandenberg Air Force Base (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandenberg_Air_Force_Base) on 23 February (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_23) 1999 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999). Sunsat was built by post-graduate engineering students at the University of Stellenbosch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Stellenbosch).”

"The new satellite was bigger than SunSat, which had a mass of 64 kg and carried a fairly small multispectral imager, operating in three bands (red, blue, and green) with a resolution of 15 m (that is, one pixel equating to 15 m × 15 m on the ground) at an altitude of 600 km – the first of its kind on a small satellite in any country. The new satellite – the Stellenbosch team’s second, SunSpace’s first – has a 200-kg mass, and has a bigger imager, with a panchromatic resolution of 3 m and a three-band multi- spectral resolution of 6 m. It is, thus, a small satellite, rather than a microsatellite, and was delivered in March 2003."

'The company has also produced components for satellites built in other countries. “We built a boom and a star camera for Australia’s FedSat. We made an imager for South Korea’s KitSat – indeed, we provided a lot of tech- nology transfer to the Koreans when they were just starting their programme,” reports Olivier. “We supplied some satellite control reaction wheels to Brazil’s National Institue of Space Research and for an Italian company, Carlo Gavassi. And we built a magnetometer for Germany’s Safir 2 satellite. We are collabor- ating with a major European company to provide imagers in joint proposals to third countries – the European company has market access to countries that we don’t.”'

"SunSpace is also a member of an inter- national (South African/Belgian) consortium, developing a new imager, known as the Multi-Sensor Microsatellite Imager (MSMI). The other South African members of the consortium are the Agricultural Research Council, the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, and the Engineering Faculty at Stellenbosch, while the Belgian partners are a company named OIP, and the Catholic University of Leuven. Funding is from the Innovation Fund in South Africa and from the Belgian government."

'“We’ve basically completed the prototype,” states Cilliers. “It combines in one instrument panchromatic, hyperspectral and multispectral imaging. Hyperspectral imaging from space is all the rage now – its potential is enormous and very exciting, and it reveals a lot of environmental information.” While the MSMI’s multispectral capability covers six colour bands, its hyperspectral capability covers 200 colour bands. “The Belgians are very eager to get the MSMI into space,” he adds. “There is a lot of interest in it in Europe.”'

http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article.php?a_id=142481

[Mastermind]

All those positive things out of Aouth Africa. And, I guess it would be inappropriate for me to mention the European white persons influence...yes...I'm sure these wonerful achievements would have all been realized had not one single European ever stepped foot in SA.

And, the tecnological and social accomplishments of all that Africa between the southern border of Egypt and the northern border of South Africa would be.....?

Ah, yes...the lovely sound of crickets chirriping.

[BlisteringFreakachu]

All those positive things out of Aouth Africa. And, I guess it would be inappropriate for me to mention the European white persons influence...yes...I'm sure these wonerful achievements would have all been realized had not one single European ever stepped foot in SA.

And, the tecnological and social accomplishments of all that Africa between the southern border of Egypt and the northern border of South Africa would be.....?

Ah, yes...the lovely sound of crickets chirriping.

And would you say that this makes them racially inferior?

[especial]

Reading, writing. And the ability to plan that comes with that. The wheel. modern medicine. Surgery. Better childbirthing techniques lowering mother/infant mortality. Roads. Hospitals. The ability to realise there are other continents and people in the world. Heck, the ability to travel effeciently beyond the next few villages. Mathematics. Transport-trains, cars, aircraft, sea-going vessels, the bicycle. Permanent shelter. Electricity. Refridgeration. Corn (maize) Communications. Organised education. The telephone. The computer. The pen/pencil....... I can go on all day if you want me to.

I cannot believe you wrote that without thinking....:roll:
Corn? That was the american native population. And what? The mayans brought us the calender, 0, corn, lots of other stuff. Where in Africa do you exactly live? I do not doubt for a second that black people have not done great things. Its just that in the era of giving things away for free to blacks in africa because they are poor does not help them. It programs their minds to beg for things rather than working for it. And white countries do not care much because they figured that they are doing good by giving things away to africans. The US government pays a lot of money to african nations for hiv/aids medication yet they could care less about the people in their country who have hiv/aids.

[Mastermind]

There is no racially concerned issue here. I am simply wondering the "Why" of it. It might just be a geographical or a social issue...it might be, as some have suggested, a climatological, meteorlogical or even a sociological condition that renders people living in this continent the inability to rise out of crass barbarism and into the realm of higher levels of human intercourse.

I personally reject the economic excuse...that poverty has rendered them helpless...far too many groups have demonstrated the human capacity to extricate themselves out of slovenly, low economic conditions.

Most certainly, the African descendants who have come out of the continent seem to have had no trouble achieving extraordiarily in industry, science and art to name but a few of the sub categories of that higher level of human experience.

So, I doubt it is a racial thing. What could it be?

[BlisteringFreakachu]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_Africa

[afreu]

There is no racially concerned issue here. I am simply wondering the "Why" of it. It might just be a geographical or a social issue...it might be, as some have suggested, a climatological, meteorlogical or even a sociological condition that renders people living in this continent the inability to rise out of crass barbarism and into the realm of higher levels of human intercourse.

I personally reject the economic excuse...that poverty has rendered them helpless...far too many groups have demonstrated the human capacity to extricate themselves out of slovenly, low economic conditions.

Most certainly, the African descendants who have come out of the continent seem to have had no trouble achieving extraordiarily in industry, science and art to name but a few of the sub categories of that higher level of human experience.

So, I doubt it is a racial thing. What could it be?

From my personal experience it seems that (at least in Nigeria) a lot of people lack the ability for independent, creative and long term thinking. Perhaps that is rooted in the school education and family upbringing which don't seem to support the development of those qualities. Then you have societies where the family is immensely important, something which encourages favouritism and corruption. Furthermore the governments can rely on making money by selling out their country's ressources (which discourages progress in any other economic sector).

Just to name a few reasons for underdevelopment in African countries.

[Skutatos]

Corn? That was the american native population. And what? The mayans brought us the calender, 0, corn, lots of other stuff.

The calendar and 0 were around before the Mayans. Its still amazing they developed these by themselves later on, but they weren't the first.

[gaijinsamurai]

There is no racially concerned issue here. I am simply wondering the "Why" of it. It might just be a geographical or a social issue...it might be, as some have suggested, a climatological, meteorlogical or even a sociological condition that renders people living in this continent the inability to rise out of crass barbarism and into the realm of higher levels of human intercourse.

I personally reject the economic excuse...that poverty has rendered them helpless...far too many groups have demonstrated the human capacity to extricate themselves out of slovenly, low economic conditions.

Most certainly, the African descendants who have come out of the continent seem to have had no trouble achieving extraordiarily in industry, science and art to name but a few of the sub categories of that higher level of human experience.

So, I doubt it is a racial thing. What could it be?

Cultural ?

[koalorka]

Most certainly, the African descendants who have come out of the continent seem to have had no trouble achieving extraordiarily in industry, science and art to name but a few of the sub categories of that higher level of human experience.

Actually they have not and are probably the least accomplished group in that respect.

[Rudolph]

Cultural ?

And in successful societies culture and religion adapted to a changing world. The white South Africans for instance had to adapt to a different culture because of their isolation and the different world they faced in Africa, than how it was in Germany, Britain, the Netherlands, and France (the four main groups comprising us). Whereas Christianity had prevented certain scientific and astronomical research from being carried out, like stem cells today, the reinterpretation of religion allowed Western society to progress the most through time to date.

As more and more Africans stop believing in their forefathers' ghosts, superstition and such, they slowly adapt to a modern world. As we did many generations ago. As capitalism takes hold, and democracy, they will let tribalism go as well. Quite simple really.

[Gunbird]

I really dont give a damn what a region contributes, I care about indivual contributions.

There is nothing more irritating than benchwarmers that want to take credit for their teams wins. That's why I demand individual accomplishment. I'm not going to credit you based on lottery when YOU have done nothing at all yourself.

If you can't contribute, then get out of my way, and shut your mouth.

[Surgeon General]

I really dont give a damn what a region contributes, I care about indivual contributions.

There is nothing more irritating than benchwarmers that want to take credit for their teams wins. That's why I demand individual accomplishment. I'm not going to credit you based on lottery when YOU have done nothing at all yourself.

If you can't contribute, then get out of my way, and shut your mouth.

Hm that is an interesting approach. But how about this:

Let's say a scientist in New Zealand, born and raised there, makes a great scientific discovery. Does that mean every Kiwi is an Einstein? No. But it does mean their society has advanced to a level where it can produce such people. It also means that they aren't spending their time running around committing genocides.

Previous achievements though mean nothing. Just because Greece helped invent philosophy doesn't mean that the country now has absolutely anything worthwhile to offer in that field today.

[11 Bravo]

I cannot believe you wrote that without thinking....:roll:


I can believe he did...does it often now that I think about it.

[Rudolph]

Nobel Laureates from South Africa:

Max Theiler, 1951 - Physiology or Medicine
Alan M Cormack, 1979 - Physiology or Medicine
Aaron Klug, 1982 - Chemistry
Nadine Gordimer, 1991 - Literature
Sydney Brenner, 2002 - Physiology or Medicine
JM Coetzee, 2003 - Literature

Peace Prizes:

Albert Luthuli, 1960
Desmond Tutu, 1984
FW de Klerk, 1993
Nelson Mandela, 1993


*Interestingly, both Aaron Klug and Sydney Brenner are of Lithuanian-Jewish extraction, and Aaron Klug, Alan M Cormack and JM Coetzee studied at the University of Cape Town. Max Theiler studied at the University of Cape Town Medical School. Nadine Gordimer is also of Jewish extraction, Latvia. Both she and Sydney Brenner studied at the University of Witwatersrand, Johannesburg.

While not a Nobel Laureate, Chris Barnard who performed the first successful heart transplant also studied at the University of Cape Town.

It must be noted that many went on to do their PHDs at Cambridge, etc. before earning their Nobel Prize.

The conclusion to draw from this is, if you are Jewish come study at Cape Town. ;)

[seraosha]

http://www.pbs.org/gunsgermssteel/

[wildcat]

Blooddiamond pants come from Africa and are full of win.

[GNR]

Blooddiamond pants come from Africa and are full of win.

Quoted for truth.

[Rudolph]

http://www.pbs.org/gunsgermssteel/

I've actually always been interested in getting that, is there much on Sub-Saharan Africa?

[Britishhawk]

Africa gave us the storyline for Zulu, What a great film :)

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Ebony ladies?

They look very fetching in chains.

[seraosha]

I've actually always been interested in getting that, is there much on Sub-Saharan Africa?

I'll check my copy when I get home from the office, but I remember quite a bit of comparison between the available flora/fauna of the African continent vs Europe...the basic premise being that the longitude of Africa (North to South) caused less agricultural homogenization due to the different climates vs Europe which had the latitude (East to West), allowing better cross distribution of agriculture, as well as more riding/eating animals being available for domestication.

Fascinating read, I can't recommend it enough. "Collapse" by the same author is great too, but be prepared to finish the book and realize that the world is in serious trouble.

[Anomander]

i don't know, humanity? thats good enough for me ;)

[Rudolph]

I'll check my copy when I get home from the office, but I remember quite a bit of comparison between the available flora/fauna of the African continent vs Europe...the basic premise being that the longitude of Africa (North to South) caused less agricultural homogenization due to the different climates vs Europe which had the latitude (East to West), allowing better cross distribution of agriculture, as well as more riding/eating animals being available for domestication.

Fascinating read, I can't recommend it enough. "Collapse" by the same author is great too, but be prepared to finish the book and realize that the world is in serious trouble.

Found it on YouTube. Has a section on South Africa's European settlement, cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/hC76ywLyBvE

[matthew.manhorn]

Africa preserved mother nature for humanity. I'm still surprised at how come hippies / environmentalist aren't immigrating to subsaharan Africa.

[WiraBengis]

What matthew is said is kind of true but hippies will only do more damage to Africa. You know, *** 24/7 and more carriers if they decide to move back to their homeland.

We should come up with a thread called, "What shouldn't the rest of the world contribute to Africa?"

[Dinges]

Africa preserved mother nature for humanity. I'm still surprised at how come hippies / environmentalist aren't immigrating to subsaharan Africa.


May I say it , hhmm , they might be , how can I put it , let us just say....... Afraid?

Idealism just is not on par with reality.

[budgie]

[SIZE=2]Africa is giving nothing to anyone -- apart from AIDS


What has Africa given to the world?

A few million years ago, YOUR ancestors came down from the trees in Africa. They learned to hunt, cook, talk; they migrated and evolved and learned eventually to write, read and build wheels and cities and put a man on the moon.

Without Africa there would be no human race.

Duh.

[matthew.manhorn]

May I say it , hhmm , they might be , how can I put it , let us just say....... Afraid?

Idealism just is not on par with reality.

I was being sarcastic towards the hippies :). But of course they'll come up with excuses like "we want change in the polluting US since Subsaharan africa is not industrialized!"

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

What has Africa given to the world?

A few million years ago, YOUR ancestors came down from the trees in Africa. They learned to hunt, cook, talk; they migrated and evolved and learned eventually to write, read and build wheels and cities and put a man on the moon.

Without Africa there would be no human race.

Duh.You beat me to it Budgie my thoughts exactly. For all those European countries that had colonies in Africa you can thank Africa the wealth it provided.

[Walter Sobchak]

What has the world given to Africa? Besides guns, colonies, slavery, disease and misery? Not a lot.

Don't forget access to numbered accounts at Credite Suisse and pandering recognition that somehow these Presidents for Life are legitimate.

I sometimes wonder if the rest of the world is even interested in fixing some of the huge problems wrought in Africa by the whole colonial exploitation. On the one hand, I see aid programs doing good, but I also see much of it being stolen and used to enrich the lives of despots and wonder why it's allowed to continue.

Also, don't forget that Europeans drew geographical boundaries over the age old tribal boundaries, which has cause many tribal groups to be thrown together after "independence" in wars of genocidal proportions.

As mentioned earlier, much of who we are and how we are hard-wired to survive and master our world came out of the plains of east Africa with our distant ancestors! That, is a helluva contribution to society!!

[Kit]

I think it's purely cultural why Africa is not up to par with the 1st world. If you live on the equator, you can get by in life being a hunter gatherer. There's no winter to ruin the plant life or to drive away the animals.

It can be argued that agriculture, in the terms of permanent farming and settlement, is the root of western civilization.

When I look at sub-Saharan Africa, I can't help but to think of neo-colonialism. If those people had an established order, so much can get done.

[matthew.manhorn]

I think it's purely cultural why Africa is not up to par with the 1st world. If you live on the equator, you can get by in life being a hunter gatherer. There's no winter to ruin the plant life or to drive away the animals.

It can be argued that agriculture, in the terms of permanent farming and settlement, is the root of western civilization.

I have to agree with your insightful comments here.

[Mastermind]

Africa's enigma is the same as the question: "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?"

I have read the plausible argument that the reason Afrca as a continent is retarded is becasue of the White ego centrist European-Western mania that fears African emergence into the 1st world. It is a plausible argument when from African eyes, western efforts in Africa have been exploitation of geological, zoo-ological, and human resources. Power structures, as emanated by the white western and European and even Asian sources have never worked in Africa for Africans simply because of the explotative nature of exo-African motivations. Africans have lived under this heel and have been shown by bad example of how such exploitations have profited the invaders, thus domestic origin leadrs have failed Africans simply becasue of following the lead of the exploiters who have lived very large becasue of their bloody and essentially imoral adventures in the Dark continent.

Of course, blaming others for ones exorbitant failures is a clever ploy exercised by the self serving African leaders who have left an almost unbroken chain of human disasters behind them. They have not only failed miserably, they have failed to a point the Exo-Africans quit almost two centuries ago when they quit taking slaves. We have Africans like Mugabe and Idi amine (notables of excess, admittedly, but seemingly more typcial than atypical). We have examples of prize winning shame, like Uganda, Mozabique, Rwanda, the Congo to name but a few from modern history. It would seem, the so-called "White Shame to Africans" is illigitamate when Exo-African successes are displayed against the domestic versions of failure. South Africa, Rhodesia, and Kenya (to name but three of several) having once been glaring examples of white jewels of Africa, now rapidly diminishing as the leaderships of domestic Africans comes to domination. What was it about the White Shame of Africa, the exploitation, the aparthied and the slavery, so suppressing domestic African nature, that allowed such first world growth and rapid infestation of success, most notably with a very white flavor? What is it about the suppression of white influence and leadership now, that allows such malignant deterioration of society and human productivity?

We would almost have to take history and the reality of example as our guide to understanding why Africans have left their continent so barren of examples of human achievement and contribution to the common good of all mankind...that is, of course, excluding the examples that have been distilled by Exo-African urging and presentation of opportunity.

Africa is devolving because, simply put, it is so filled with Africans who have very few of the same ideas and moralities that define "success" as the Exo-Africans have. By African standards, we non-Africans define success and contribution completely differently.

In my opinion, for the little it is worth, the non-African world should quit applying non-African standards to African endeavors and leave Africans to their own self appreciating devices. We are being shown daily by the replays of Mozambique-like examples of the quality of life Africans seem to want. Not at all the life I would want ...but, really, it does seem to play well throughout the continent.

[Dark-Angel25]

Africa:birthplace of humanity.The Cradle of Humankind.
Without Africa there wouldn't be whites,blacks,yellows,browns,etc.

[Connaught Ranger]

What has Africa contributed to the world

whatever the colonials saw fit to plunder for the last 250+ years

to benefit their lives and their families lives, diamonds, gold, etc..etc....

[Salman]

This thread is racist in its core and im suprised it remains open. Some of the posters here seem to love simplified logic and dangerous generalizations. To all idiots who think they are special because of how they look, you are not, get over yourself.

:bash:

[ggk]

16 page......

.........................

[Adux]

What has Africa Contributed to the world : The human race!

[tercio67]

Coffee, and this alone should make the world grateful.

[Morboute]

Pffft, atleast Finland produced ToF.

Finland/ToF > Africa.

[matthew.manhorn]

This thread is racist in its core and im suprised it remains open. Some of the posters here seem to love simplified logic and dangerous generalizations. To all idiots who think they are special because of how they look, you are not, get over yourself.

:bash:

One word: Stormfront. I bet the threadmaker is a Stormfront member

[uTu]

What has the world given to Africa? Besides guns, colonies, slavery, disease and misery? Not a lot.

Yep definitely something like that & more. Though various corrupt African leaders haven't helped either. So much horror. Ghana seems to be gaining ground. Any gains in Africa are great to see.

What has Stormfront contributed to the world?
Coupla lols and a big long yawn.

[matthew.manhorn]

Yep definitely something like that & more. Though various corrupt African leaders haven't helped either. So much horror. Ghana seems to be gaining ground. Any gains in Africa are great to see.

What has Stormfront contributed to the world?
Coupla lols and a big long yawn.

Agreed bro, the valedictorians from my high school are 2 girls from Africa, they're really hardworking people and I hope they'll serve their country well with their knowledge.

PS: I learned that the Jews want to destroy the white race from Stormfront, despite the fact that Jews are also white! rofl

[just some guy over there]

What has the world given to Africa? Besides guns, colonies, slavery, disease and misery? Not a lot.

woot :) :hug: :) woot

[just some guy over there]

What did Africa give to the world?
mmmmmmm.............The man kind?

[just some guy over there]

What did Europe give to Africa?
1-dividing centuries-old unions (Egypt and The Sudan were just "The Egyptian kingdom", in a matter of fact, the word "Sudan" roots to "Blacks" ie. black Egyptians and light skin Egyptian).
2-Draining treasures.
3-Increasing tribal hostilities.

[Parisien]

Nobel Laureates from South Africa:



At the north there were also some contributions, at least two nobel price (Albert Camus and Tannoudji), and lots of stuff in the antiquity like Euclid or Saint Augustine.

[kosse]

What did Europe give to Africa?


Most of the scientific achivements that make it possible for you to live comfortably and also post in MP.net.

Plus we pour in shytloads of money every year but it doesn't seem to do anything.

[Fallap]

Tarzan! :D