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07-13-2008, 02:46 PM

43 nations creating Mediterranean union
By ANGELA CHARLTON
Associated Press Writer

PARIS (AP) - French President Nicolas Sarkozy urged the disparate and conflicted countries around the Mediterranean Sea on Sunday to make peace as European rivals did in the 20th century, as he launched an unprecedented Union for the Mediterranean.

Yet the summit did not mask all the divisions that crisscross the region: Syria's President Bashar Assad left the enormous table before Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert gave his speech to the more than 40 leaders seated around it, Israeli government officials said on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter.

It was the first time the two men had sat at the same table.

"The European and the Mediterranean dreams are inseparable," Sarkozy told leaders from more than 40 nations in Europe, the Middle East and North Africa. "We will succeed together; we will fail together."

Story continued.... (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D91T45500&show_article=1&catnum=0)

Buffalo_soldier

07-13-2008, 02:47 PM

BS

A meditterenian union is a terrible idea. Why on earth its being pushed by a European leader i'll never know.

We should fix the problems of the EU and European problems; before trying to fix those of an infintately more mixed up group of nations.

Karaahmetoglu

07-13-2008, 03:12 PM

Turkey ıs apparenty not joınıng thıs just a observer status. Sarkozy called Erdogan sayıng how Turkey should joın med-unıon ınstead of Eu Erdogan saıd no. Wısh he saıd no to both but more correctly I wısh he left the government anyway.

The Balkan

07-13-2008, 03:19 PM

Membership of the Mediterranean Union proposed by Sarkozy.
Countries bordering the sea (blue)
The rest of the European Union (dark grey)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/MedU.png

Mu-Meson

07-13-2008, 03:58 PM

Alexandr

07-13-2008, 04:05 PM

Seriously, sounds to me like France is trying to orchestrate a some kind of counter weight to the EU. Something they can dominate without UK or Germany.

Dominate?With Turkey and Israel in that union?Sorry,but France much more weaker
than they,only advantage France got as member of G8,nothing more.
Looks not like key to domination ,but more like key to avoid domination on France from US and UK side,by buildind new ties.

Britboy

07-13-2008, 04:12 PM

It wasn't so long ago (a month or so?) that Sarkozy was proposing an entente cordiale with UK... And then there was the French reintegration into NATO command fully.

I'm all for international cooperation, but must ask just what game it is that Sarkozy is playing, and whats his desired end-state?

Regards
BB

Muc91

07-13-2008, 04:56 PM

43 nations????

INAT

07-13-2008, 05:02 PM

So at the start of this union, you have one member get up and leave because another is about to talk? Good start.
Seriously, sounds to me like France is trying to orchestrate a some kind of counter weight to the EU. Something they can dominate without UK or Germany.

Yeah I was sort of thinking the same thing.Either that or we are another step closer to a one world government.European Union,African Union possibly North American Union ,Asia-Pacific Union and now this.Do we really need to have one big world union? I don't think it is a good idea.

Afro-European

07-13-2008, 05:05 PM

Ahh Sarkozy,wtf is this grandstanding? Btw Slovenia,Croatia,Bosnia and Montenegro lie all in the Adriatic sea,not in the Mediterranean sea.

Lt. James Anderson

07-13-2008, 05:10 PM

Ahh Sarkozy,wtf is this grandstanding? Btw Slovenia,Croatia,Bosnia and Montenegro lie all in the Adriatic sea,not in the Mediterranean sea.

And the Adriatic Sea is a part of the Mediterranean Sea ...

Afro-European

07-13-2008, 05:19 PM

And the Adriatic Sea is a part of the Mediterranean Sea ...
False. A small rip from wiki:

Other Seas
Although not recognized by the IHO treaties, there are some other seas that are in common use from the ancient times or in present:
the Sea of Sardinia, between Sardinia and Balearic Islands, as a part of the Balearic Sea
the Tyrrhenian Sea enclosed by Sardinia, Italian peninsula and Sicily,
the Sea of Sicily between Sicily and Tunisia,
the Libyan Sea between Libya and Crete,
In the Aegean Sea,
the Thracian Sea in its north,
the Myrtoan Sea between the Cyclades and the Peloponnese,
the Sea of Crete north of Crete
he Cilician Sea between Turkey and Cyprus

So where is the Adriatic sea?

Paddy51

07-13-2008, 05:20 PM

Lt. James Anderson

07-13-2008, 05:31 PM

False. A small rip from wiki:

So where is the Adriatic sea?

Do they all connect? Yes? Then they are all part of the Mediterranean Sea. I'm pretty sure that's how it works ... Google Adriatic Sea and see what it says.

AROUETLJ

07-13-2008, 05:36 PM

So at the start of this union, you have one member get up and leave because another is about to talk? Good start.
Seriously, sounds to me like France is trying to orchestrate a some kind of counter weight to the EU. Something they can dominate without UK or Germany.

No no, don't worry. The Med Union, which will actually be called "Union for the Mediterranean" (weaker term than the former) will just have environmental issues on its agenda. That's just the only thing they could get everyone to agree upon. But it is still a prime example of Sarkozyst fuite en avant - coming up with a new problem because you cannot solve the existing ones.

INAT

07-13-2008, 05:36 PM

Ahh Sarkozy,wtf is this grandstanding? Btw Slovenia,Croatia,Bosnia and Montenegro lie all in the Adriatic sea,not in the Mediterranean sea.

I would not really count Bosnia they have a very small sliver of land(maybe 20km/13 miles) at Neum and have been in talks with Croats to get a 99 year lease to the seaport at Ploce.

T-Rex

07-13-2008, 05:45 PM

I was watching a television show about the European Union and it is quite an amazing feet in itself. With this Mediterranean union I would guess that France is looking more for economic partners than anything else. Also, France always seems to come up with whacky ideas about world domination.

Ichabod

07-13-2008, 05:52 PM

I would not really count Bosnia they have a very small sliver of land(maybe 20km/13 miles) at Neum and have been in talks with Croats to get a 99 year lease to the seaport at Ploce.

Well,as long as they have entrance to sea..........

Nickchios

07-13-2008, 06:39 PM

Membership of the Mediterranean Union proposed by Sarkozy.
Countries bordering the sea (blue)
The rest of the European Union (dark grey)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/MedU.png

How is Jordan bordering Mediterranean sea?

The Balkan

07-13-2008, 07:26 PM

Ahh Sarkozy,wtf is this grandstanding? Btw Slovenia,Croatia,Bosnia and Montenegro lie all in the Adriatic sea,not in the Mediterranean sea.

False. A small rip from wiki:

So where is the Adriatic sea?

According to the International Hydrographic Organization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Hydrographic_Organization) (IHO) treaties, the Mediterranean Sea is subdivided into a number of smaller seas, each with their own designation (from west to east):

the Alboran Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alboran_Sea), between Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain) and Morocco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco),
the Balearic Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balearic_Sea), between mainland Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain) and its Balearic Islands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balearic_Islands),
the Ligurian Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligurian_Sea) between Corsica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsica) and Liguria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liguria) (Italy),
the Adriatic Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adriatic_Sea) between Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy), Slovenia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenia), Croatia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia), Bosnia and Herzegovina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina), Montenegro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegro) and Albania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania)
the Ionian Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionian_Sea) between Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy), Greece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece), and Albania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania),
the Aegean Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegean_Sea) between Greece and Turkey
the Sea of Marmara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_of_Marmara) between the Aegean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegean_Sea) and Black Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea)
Geographicly, climacticly and even botanicaly, Bosnia-Herzegovina (specificly Herzegovina region) qualifies. And so does Croatia and the rest.

[WDW]Megaraptor

07-13-2008, 07:45 PM

A meditterenian union is a terrible idea. Why on earth its being pushed by a European leader i'll never know.

Hopefully it will be purely economic and stick to facilitating free trade and the like and not start impinging on other nation's sovereignty.

AROUETLJ

07-13-2008, 07:52 PM

How is Jordan bordering Mediterranean sea?

Hmmm. Let's not get started about Turkey being geographically European or not. Political unions of this sort are about geostrategic spheres of influence, not geographical boundaries. Even Mauretania has been "drafted" into the Union for the Med.

LaoSexMachine

07-13-2008, 08:11 PM

Nations agree to work for WMD-free Mediterranean

Story Highlights
Declaration: "a verifiable Middle East Zone free of weapons of mass destruction"
Includes nuclear, chemical and biological weapons, and their delivery systems
Israel is widely believed to have a stockpile of nuclear weapons

PARIS, France (AP) -- More than 40 nations, including Israel and Arab states, agreed Sunday to work for a zone free of weapons of mass destruction in the Middle East.
A final declaration from a summit launching the Union for the Mediterranean says the members will "pursue a mutually and effectively verifiable Middle East Zone free of weapons of mass destruction."
That includes nuclear, chemical and biological weapons, as well as their delivery systems, the statement says. The countries will "consider practical steps to prevent the proliferation" of such weapons, it says.
Signatories to the declaration included Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and leaders from Syria and countries across the Middle East, North Africa and Europe.
Israel is widely believed to have a stockpile of nuclear weapons. But Israel's official policy is called "nuclear ambiguity," neither confirming nor denying it has nuclear bombs.
The question of nuclear weapons in the region is particularly sensitive lately, given rising tensions between Israel and Iran, which the United States and its allies believe is seeking nuclear arms.
Tehran maintains its uranium enrichment activities are aimed at producing nuclear energy, and has defied U.N. Security Council demands that it suspend enrichment.
Fears that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction drove the U.S.-led invasion there in 2003, though such weapons have not been found.
Israeli jets destroyed what U.S. intelligence officials said was believed to be a nuclear reactor in Syria last year. U.S. officials believe North Korea had aided Syria with a nuclear program whose aim was to produce plutonium, though it was unclear whether it was meant for weapons development. Syrian officials said it was part of a non-nuclear military program.
Copyright 2008 The Associated Press (http://www.cnn.com/interactive_legal.html#AP). All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
http://images.clickability.com/pti/spacer.gif

Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/07/13/mediterranean.nuclear.arms.ap/index.html

Nickchios

07-13-2008, 08:33 PM

Hmmm. Let's not get started about Turkey being geographically European or not. Political unions of this sort are about geostrategic spheres of influence, not geographical boundaries. Even Mauretania has been "drafted" into the Union for the Med.

Turkey is for sure bordering Mediterranean see.:)

But Jordan for sure is not bordering Mediterranean see.:)

I do not know..... may be there is a mistake in the color map....??

boreal

07-13-2008, 09:04 PM

A treaty with the son of a b**** of Damascus, it makes me sick

ThatHistoryDude

07-13-2008, 10:11 PM

Holy crap its roman empire part 2!!!!!!1one!!

Just kidding but I bet some conspiracy theorists are having fun with this.

Ordie

07-13-2008, 10:45 PM

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/d/d4/400px-Roman_Empire_Map.png (http://www.answers.com/main/Record2?a=NR&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FImage%3ARoman%2520Empire%2520Map.png)
What is old is now new again.
SPQR

[WDW]Megaraptor

07-13-2008, 11:07 PM

Holy crap its roman empire part 2!!!!!!1one!!

Just kidding but I bet some conspiracy theorists are having fun with this.

No, it's a new attempt by fascists to create Mussolini's Mare Nostrum!!111onenene1!!!

p-)

Rictor

07-14-2008, 12:06 AM

Ordie

07-14-2008, 01:56 AM

It's odd that Sarkozy of all people would push for such an idea, considering how friendly he is with Israel. If he can sweet-talk them into giving up their nukes, I will consider him to be the greatest diplomat who ever lived.

Au Contraire Mon Frere

France has alot to gain from a Med-Union. Especially it's close political, economic and familiar ties with the Mahreb and the Levant.

wildcat

07-14-2008, 01:59 AM

won't happen, I cannot see Spain or Italy wanting to risk the economic gains they have had in the EU to support poor nation around the Med.

Basillicus

07-14-2008, 02:35 AM

I don't see what's the point. There are countries that have so a big differences, that I doubt this kind of union could really achieve anything. At best it would be a very loose organization that only wastes money on endless meetings and congresses that concentrate on micromanaging irrelevant things that don't upset any of the members. Just watch EU, it's members are much closer to each others e.g. culturally, economically and historically but still there are difficulties getting serious business done because someone is always lagging.

koalorka

07-14-2008, 02:55 AM

Good idea. Would give Europe an excuse to reject Turkey and destroy any hopes Israel and Morocco had in the EU.

PatricVadec

07-14-2008, 03:49 AM

won't happen, I cannot see Spain or Italy wanting to risk the economic gains they have had in the EU to support poor nation around the Med.

Agreed with you if Sarkozy want to create a Union like EU. But if he want to create just Free Trade Area, It may happen.

joka

07-14-2008, 04:41 AM

angry cow

07-14-2008, 04:49 AM

The Mediterranean Union is just the Barcelona process (http://ec.europa.eu/external_relations/euromed/index_en.htm) in new clothes to give Sarkozy his day in the limelight.

Facilitate trade, help potential terrorist hotbeds become stable, decrease illegal immigration, it's not all bad.

Agreed, the agenda is much more about economic and security regulation, not political and economic integration. That would be a long ways down the road.

Loki77

07-14-2008, 07:36 AM

Paddy51

07-14-2008, 08:15 AM

No and no, this new 'union' is just another name for the future expansion of EU...

That is an interesting idea and I think you may be right about this. :)

Revolveri

07-14-2008, 10:08 AM

Personally I think France should concentrate on the EU which is in a sort of a crisis atm than start a new union for the Mediterranean countries. Sarkozy's an ambitious and charismatic leader and should be able to work it out. I agree with him on the EU not needing to expand any further without first reforming its institutions and organs...

Why is there so many unions anyway, aren't many of this new union in the African Union already? I suppose if this all stops the illegal immigration it's a worthy cause then...

4X4Driver

07-14-2008, 10:12 AM

Good idea. Would give Europe an excuse to reject Turkey.

They've already rejected Turkey several times...but the TR gov't insist on not "understanding" it :roll:..so, as a Turk, I would support such "union" thing as long as it keeps Turkey out of the EU.

Revolveri

07-14-2008, 10:14 AM

They've already rejected Turkey several times...but the TR gov't insist on not "understanding" it :roll:..so, as a Turk, I would support such "union" thing as long as it keeps Turkey out of the EU.

I've never understood why Turkey wants to be in the union? Do they have some need to prove themselves European or is it just an economic thing?

4X4Driver

07-14-2008, 10:18 AM

I've never understood why Turkey wants to be in the union? Do they have some need to prove themselves European or is it just an economic thing?

Turkey doesn't (recent surveys show the support from ppl are limited to 40 some % and it's going down) It's the current gov't that insists keeping Turkey on the membership path for their own interests. Deep down, this Islamic gov't is not for it either.

Karaahmetoglu

07-15-2008, 11:23 AM

It's good our people do not want to join EU now if the same people did not vote for this same government that would be better. If I would get in the government I would throw Turkeys EU application out to window, better yet burn it. Then I would change all the laws the way before EU started changing them, they gave PKK way too much wiggle room.

xav

07-15-2008, 11:48 AM

Once again: (I am getting tired of repeating this over and over)

The major reason for this union is for Turkey to forget the idea of joing the EU once and for all, and to have have it focus on something else.

Sarkozy admitted it on at least one TV interview in France.

tsuri

07-15-2008, 11:52 AM

I've never understood why Turkey wants to be in the union? Do they have some need to prove themselves European or is it just an economic thing?

They already have all the economic advantages and most additional benefits can be indefinetly castrated should they indeed join some day in the far future.
Nobody really knows what this is about anymore. Basically it is a prestige thing.

No and no, this new 'union' is just another name for the future expansion of EU...
That is an interesting idea and I think you may be right about this.
Probably not. We already turned down the North African states. The only country with a real chance to join is Israel. Because they are rich and developed and all their neighbours hate them for it.

This is more an alternative to joining the EU. It expands our sphere of influence that has been decimated by expansion.

xav

07-15-2008, 11:53 AM

If I may ad:

If what our Turks member say is true, it is apparently not working...

Ah well, not surprising.

Karaahmetoglu

07-15-2008, 11:57 AM

If I may ad:

If what our Turks member say is true, it is apparently not working...

Ah well, not surprising.

What do you mean? What is true that the Turkish people do not want to join EU? May you please elaborate a little more please.

xav

07-15-2008, 12:16 PM

What do you mean? What is true that the Turkish people do not want to join EU? May you please elaborate a little more please.

No, more like Erdogan saw it coming (Sarkozy's plan) and already planned not to join this Mediteranean union... Therefore one of Sarkozy's objective fails.

Karaahmetoglu

07-15-2008, 12:20 PM

No, more like Erdogan saw it coming (Sarkozy's plan) and already planned not to join this Mediteranean union... Therefore one of Sarkozy's objective fails.

Erdogan could not have seen it coming if it came at him from Pluto to Ankara at the speed of a snail. His head is so thick that it would waste a woodpeckers whole life if the woodpecker started pecking at his head from birth to death, poor woodpecker still wouldn't get to his brain, that is if there is one.

saladin

07-15-2008, 12:52 PM

According to a columnist specialized in foreign policy (Semih Idiz), France sent 3 invitation letters and three special envoys to Ankara but Turkey only decided to attend after Sarkozy called Erdogan in person. Idiz also believes the only diplomatic success of the meeting was Israil's acceptance to start diplomatic relations with Lebanon.