Battle of Grunwald: 698 years ago [Archive]

lightfire

07-14-2008, 09:23 AM

Tomorow will be the aniversarry of Battle of Grunwald/Žalgiris/Tannenberg.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Grunwald_bitwa.jpg

Drawing of Jan Matejko: Battle of Grunwald

On July 15th, 1410 Allied armies of Kingdom of Poland and Grand Dutchy of Lithuania have defeated army of Teutonic knigts in one of the biggest battles of middle ages in Europe. It was not only the culmination of 1409 - 1411 war, but the end of the effective military might of teutonic knights. For nearly 200 years Teutonic knights have been wageing war on Lithuania with short periods of truce. The battle has ended Teutonic ambitions towards the east and strenghtened both Poland and Lithuania in the region.

wiki link to sum everything up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grunwald

A link from the official reenactment event, that has occured during the weekend. Aprox 1300 participants and many more viewers. Unfortunatelly, only in polish :( (why can't you ever have a decent english website, guys?)

http://www.grunwald1410.pl/index.php?cat=1

videos from the event:

http://www.lrytas.lt/videonews/?id=12160412201215073041&sk=5

http://www.lrytas.lt/videonews/?id=12160408921215173125&sk=5

Hopefully, more photos will follow.

Now I can't wait for 2010 - the 600 year anniversarry. There should be a lithuanian movie (high budget by our standards) about this battle around that year. Hopefully, not a crappy one.

So..happy victory day! woot

edit:

dammit, yet again I fail with numbers in title...:cantbeli:

T-Rex

07-14-2008, 10:44 AM

Thank you for reminding us. I know that You tube has the original movie Krzyzacy (Knights of the Teutonic Order) if anybody is interested.

Alexandr

07-14-2008, 11:08 AM

Great battle - Poliaks,Lithuanians,Mongolo-Tatars,Russians,Chezhs together, shoulder to shoulder, agianst united West Europe Crusaders army .
Oh,good old days,where are you now?

CPL Trevoga

07-14-2008, 11:37 PM

Great battle - Poliaks,Lithuanians,Mongolo-Tatars,Russians,Chezhs together, shoulder to shoulder, agianst united West Europe Crusaders army .
Oh,good old days,where are you now?

Originally Teutons where supported by Polish kings, they were meant to be proxies fighting pagan Balts, Orthodox Novgorod and Muscovy, but grew powerful and had to be put down by their own creators.

shadowsrider

07-15-2008, 05:22 AM

Switek

07-15-2008, 05:33 AM

Oh,good old days,where are you now?

Now? Among more or less friends... ;)

Thew Battle of Grunwald was a typical medieval battle. There weren't such ideological attitude (I mean historical politics - ;) as today. Coalitions were built ad hoc and very often yesterday's friend was today's enemy... ;)

Thor

07-15-2008, 05:44 AM

Originally Teutons where supported by Polish kings, they were meant to be proxies fighting pagan Balts, Orthodox Novgorod and Muscovy, but grew powerful and had to be put down by their own creators.
Another imaginary tale. They were created and acted on a mandate from the Pope. As for polish affiliations a king there begged the knights to defend his borders, and so they did.

lightfire

07-15-2008, 07:30 AM

Our barbarian nations united beaten the first EU what a shame... :)

rather NATO, since Teutonic order was more a military organisation.

BTW it was rather Russes than Russians participating in the battle. If I remember well this was 2000 Knights of Smolensk regiments, which was the best equipped from Lithuanian contingent.

russins from White and Black Russ. And no, 3 regiments weren't the best equiped units in GDL forces. Vytautas had his own contingent of knights - traditional heavy cavalary. The rest of the army was light cavalary or infantry.

And Czech contigent was avoiding fight and had to be twice redirected to batlle while hiding in forest (the history or legend says that its leader for this shame was never again let into marriage bedroom by his wife)

never heard of this one, any links?

I haven't heard that Teutonic knights were directed against Muscovy or Novogrod.

perhaps he meant german speaking Livonian knights.

From this point they started conquer of pagan Lithuania.

what they've never succeded p-)

shadowsrider

07-15-2008, 09:07 AM

never heard of this one, any links?

I've read it in "Mowia Wieki" historical magazine.
But I've just found this story (Polish): http://www.synaj.com/grunwald/1410.htm

Shortly: after Lithuanian retreat Czech St.George's banner under command of Jan Sarnowski hidden in forest. Noticed by chancellor Nicolaus demanding explaination (this was in the magazine not in this webpage) they explained that they did not receive their salary. But Nicolaus himself paid this salary just before so he became furious, Czechs and Moravians went back to fight blaming their commander for this retreat. Sarnowski was forever ashamed and rejected by his wife. Died soon after.

Billy No Mates

07-15-2008, 09:42 AM

Now? Among more or less friends... ;)

Thew Battle of Grunwald was a typical medieval battle. There weren't such ideological attitude (I mean historical politics - ;) as today. Coalitions were built ad hoc and very often yesterday's friend was today's enemy... ;)

Exactly the Polish king built a coalition of the willing against the knights and their supporters,not only did he thwart the knights on the battlefield he also did well politically hiring a talented lawyer to argue his cause citing the principle of 'natural law' that peaceful pagans should be left in peace .

T-Rex

07-15-2008, 09:50 AM

Originally Teutons where supported by Polish kings, they were meant to be proxies fighting pagan Balts, Orthodox Novgorod and Muscovy, but grew powerful and had to be put down by their own creators.

I have to intervene. The Teutonic Knights were not created by Polish Kings, and they were rarely supported by them. The Tuetonic Knights were formed by German cursaders in the Holy Land in the year 1198. The idea was to open a field hospital (somewhat like the hospitallers or templars) which then transformed into a military order. They came to Europe via Transylvania and then setteld in northern Poland. Their seat of power became Malbork castle (Marienburg) and began crusading against the baltic pagans, Lithuaninas... The problems with Poland arose when the order began annexing Polish held territory and forcing their taxes and government on the people on those lands. So, once again, the order was its own entity and was not created by the Polish Kings.

TR1

07-15-2008, 04:12 PM

Too bad the Tuetons didn't win, luckily I avenged them in MEdieval total war.p-)

lightfire

07-15-2008, 04:38 PM

I have to intervene. The Teutonic Knights were not created by Polish Kings, and they were rarely supported by them. The Tuetonic Knights were formed by German cursaders in the Holy Land in the year 1198. The idea was to open a field hospital (somewhat like the hospitallers or templars) which then transformed into a military order. They came to Europe via Transylvania and then setteld in northern Poland. Their seat of power became Malbork castle (Marienburg) and began crusading against the baltic pagans, Lithuaninas... The problems with Poland arose when the order began annexing Polish held territory and forcing their taxes and government on the people on those lands. So, once again, the order was its own entity and was not created by the Polish Kings.

err..you seem to have a little problem with this part of history..

I doesn't seem anyone claimed, that Teutonic order was created by Poland. It was said, that poles (mazovians to be correct) invited Teutonic order to fight prussians (not lithuanians). They've settled not in northen Poland, but in Prussia, wich they've conquered only after long fighting and rebelions.

too bad the Tuetons didn't win, luckily I avenged them in MEdieval total war.

so you've fulfilled your wet dream in a game (I've smashed Novgorod thrice for that, bombarding the city with dozzens of cannons in sheer pleasure), hopefully the reality was different p-)

CPL Trevoga

07-15-2008, 07:53 PM

err..you seem to have a little problem with this part of history..

I doesn't seem anyone claimed, that Teutonic order was created by Poland. It was said, that poles (mazovians to be correct) invited Teutonic order to fight prussians (not lithuanians). They've settled not in northen Poland, but in Prussia, wich they've conquered only after long fighting and rebelions.

so you've fulfilled your wet dream in a game (I've smashed Novgorod thrice for that, bombarding the city with dozzens of cannons in sheer pleasure), hopefully the reality was different p-)

You should try Lithuanian mod and try to smash those pesky Christians with warriors of Perunas. :)

little icebear

07-15-2008, 08:54 PM

Ah... the Battle of Grunwald... :)

The defeat of our brave German Knights on this dark day delayed the development of civilization in eastern Europe up until well into our present days...

...and who is to blame? Of course... the Poles. As always. :-P

shadowsrider

07-16-2008, 05:09 AM

I understand that you prefer Germany united by Teutons praying to virgin Mary? :)

lightfire

07-16-2008, 05:58 AM

You should try Lithuanian mod and try to smash those pesky Christians with warriors of Perunas. :)

But then I can't get cannons and those are so nice to tear down the citty walls with all the defenders on them...

The defeat of our brave German Knights on this dark day delayed the development of civilization in eastern Europe up until well into our present days...

ah yes, the development with the sword and conquering and germantization..no thanks :) Civilization and german ordung is good, but not ir warlike means.

Switek

07-16-2008, 06:22 AM

Holycrusader

07-16-2008, 06:32 AM

We never wanted your civilization we just wanted your autos... :D

And we take them :)

Just like in old German saying
Kaum gestohlen, schon in Polen ...
pls somebody provide help with translation

Vandervahn

07-16-2008, 09:08 AM

Why, that would be "The moment it´s stolen, its in Poland"... it even rhymes more or less in English as well.

Anyway, since someone said this was an old stereotype.... according to recent federal police reports, Polish gangs are still, with a large margin, the biggest foreign player in the car theft business.

By the way, Golf R32 and BMW X5 have succeeded the Porsche Cayenne in theft popularity.

Sergei

07-17-2008, 09:07 AM

And we take them :)

Just like in old German saying
Kaum gestohlen, schon in Polen ...
pls somebody provide help with translation

I have heard another interpretation

If you plan your vacation in Poland, hurry up.
Your car is already there.

Holycrusader

07-17-2008, 09:13 AM

I have heard another interpretation

If you plan your vacation in Poland, hurry up.
Your car is already there.

Nope. We steal them to sell to our friends from the East :)

Juszi

07-17-2008, 09:54 AM

I have heard another interpretation

If you plan your vacation in Poland, hurry up.
Your car is already there.

To be honest, I prefer the "Go to Germany, your ancestors' paintings and furniture are already there" p-)

shadowsrider

07-18-2008, 01:54 PM

Oh yes, seriously I buy often Polish drawings or painting on German ebay with adnotations: Museum of Lvov 1936 etc. Sometimes very underpriced because German or Austrian possesor does not recognize the value of the author.

T-Rex

07-18-2008, 03:39 PM

err..you seem to have a little problem with this part of history..

Note: I was actually responding to CPL Trevoga's statement where he states that the Teutonic knights were put down by their "creators". I am still not sure what he meant by that, thinking that it was a reference to the first part of that statement where he says that originally the Teutons were supported by the Polish kings. Either way, here is the quote for you to compare.

Originally Teutons where supported by Polish kings, they were meant to be proxies fighting pagan Balts, Orthodox Novgorod and Muscovy, but grew powerful and had to be put down by their own creators.

lightfire

07-21-2008, 10:17 AM

Some pics from the latest event there:

http://www.grunwald1410.pl/foto/603_foto_912x800.jpg

http://www.grunwald1410.pl/foto/605_foto_918x800.jpg

http://www.grunwald1410.pl/foto/605_foto_923x800.jpg

http://www.grunwald1410.pl/foto/605_foto_913x800.jpg

http://www.grunwald1410.pl/foto/605_foto_915x800.jpg

Vympel

07-21-2008, 11:43 AM

You should try Lithuanian mod and try to smash those pesky Christians with warriors of Perunas. :)

Perunas?
You mean, Lithuanian pagan god of high voltage electricity, Perkūnas?
http://www.ipix.lt/images/62740491.jpg

Vympel

07-21-2008, 12:10 PM

Ah... the Battle of Grunwald... :)

The defeat of our brave German Knights on this dark day delayed the development of civilization
... Do you call this civilization?!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Persecution_of_witches.jpg
Talking about civilization, KAZIMIERAS SEMENAVIČIUS flew in to space with his shuttle, and he wrote a book in 1650(u can buy it in ebay),
http://www.ipix.lt/images/70375573.jpg
and today this is used as basic artillery manual.:roll:

CPL Trevoga

07-21-2008, 10:07 PM

Perunas?
You mean, Lithuanian pagan god of high voltage electricity, Perkūnas?
http://www.ipix.lt/images/62740491.jpg

I thought Perun = Perunas, but it's Perkunas (thunder) is the correct name.

Mastermind

07-22-2008, 02:06 PM

I like Polish sausage and German beer....And, let me tell ya, I have never partied harder than with Germans and Pollocks in Milwaukee taverns. Got so drunk I kissed a mule ...no s4it!

NBDX

07-23-2008, 06:07 AM

Talking about civilization, KAZIMIERAS SEMENAVIČIUS [...]
and today this is used as basic artillery manual.:roll:

KAZIMIERZ SIEMIENOWICZ, you poor lithuanian shauvinist...

lightfire

07-23-2008, 06:17 AM

KAZIMIERZ SIEMIENOWICZ, you poor lithuanian shauvinist...

go troll somewhere else. He was born in Lithuania, in Raseiniai, studied in Vilnius, worked in Netherlands.

Holycrusader

07-23-2008, 06:56 AM

go troll somewhere else. He was born in Lithuania, in Raseiniai, studied in Vilnius, worked in Netherlands.

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazimierz_Siemienowicz

He was born in XVII century. No Lithuania then only Rzeczpospolita Obojga Narodów...
And he was a good soldier of Polish king Władysław IV.

perdurabo

07-23-2008, 07:15 AM

geez why to argue? We call Mikołaj Kopernik, germans use Nicolaus Copernicus. So why to have fight because Siemienowicz and SEMENAVIČIUS?
Polish King was also Greatduke of Lithuania, under Commonwelth Lithuania still existed! Country was divided on Crown and Lithuania (plus Prussia and other teritories belonging or serving to our King/Greatduke) had its own parliment, own army etc, of course Lithuanian nobleman where highly Polonised, speaking Polish but still they where born in Lithuania. He wouldn't prabably understand what are you arguing about Polish or Lithuanian was same thing in that time. Remeber this: "Lithuania my fatherland..."?
So stay calm, and enjoy this common victory aginst western f* (and later victories aginst eastern f* too ;) -we should repeat this soon ;) )

lightfire

07-23-2008, 07:22 AM

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazimierz_Siemienowicz

He was born in XVII century. No Lithuania then only Rzeczpospolita Obojga Narodów...
And he was a good soldier of Polish king Władysław IV.

And you obviously know, what Rzeczpospolita Obojga Narodów means? Commonwealth of both Republics. Raseiniai was lithuanian town, so he spoke the language as well as polish and about himself he wrote as of lithuanian bojar (nobleman).

+ what perdurabo wrote.

we should repeat this soon

against who this time? ;)

NBDX

07-23-2008, 07:51 AM

go troll somewhere else. He was born in Lithuania, in Raseiniai, studied in Vilnius, worked in Netherlands.

If somebody here is troll it is you not me. Original name of Kazimierz Siemionowicz is Kazimierz Siemionowicz. He called himself Kazimierz Siemionowicz and was called by others Kazimierz Siemionowicz. Punto y finito.

Official language of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth were Polish and Latin. Official language of pre-Commonwealth Lithuania was Ruthenian language. True Lithuanians were Poles and Ruthenians not Samogitians. Polish-Ruthenian identity of Lithuania was stolen by modern Samogitians.

So, your Samogitian names are brutal falsification. We know that now in Lithuania Polish minority is under oppression, Polish names are lithuanising by force, Polish inscriptions on buildings are erazing, Polish pre-war property is still not returned to Polish owners, Polish historical persons are lithuanising, Polish schools are not financed equally with Lithuanian schools etc.etc. Lithuanian nationalist even made rumour that Polish White-Red flag on Polish Embassy is to large and provocative... Lithuania still not recognised and apologized for collaboration with Nazis and mass murder of 20-30.000 Poles and 60-70.000 Jews in Ponary Forest.
But wait a few year when EU and NATO will collapse and Polish soldiers will come again to Wilno...

And now, shut up your dirty mouth.

Holycrusader

07-23-2008, 07:52 AM

And you obviously know, what Rzeczpospolita Obojga Narodów means? Commonwealth of both Republics. Raseiniai was lithuanian town, so he spoke the language as well as polish and about himself he wrote as of lithuanian bojar (nobleman).

+ what perdurabo wrote.
against who this time? ;)

In Polish wikipedia they called him polish-lithuanian nobleman... I like this version.

NBDX

07-23-2008, 08:13 AM

Kazimierz Siemienowicz was Polish noblemem. Noble family Siemienowicz, Ostoja coat of Arms, were originally from Poland.

little icebear

07-23-2008, 08:32 AM

geez why to argue?

Exactly... who cares whether you are Poles or Lithuanians... all of you are slavic barbarians anyway, so stop behaving like folks from the Balkans and quit the p*ssing contest. p-)

Be nice! ;)

Smok

07-23-2008, 10:01 AM

Lithuanians aren't slavic barbarians but baltic barbarians :P

And to be honest for many years there were no difference between Poles and Lithuanians. We had common contry, common king and people in Commonwealth of Both Nations spoke both languages and Latin. People were mixing and not a single act of racism is known.
For example my father's family is of Lithuanian origin (even my surname shows it) and my mother's family is Polish with Ukrainian blood. So I'm Polish-Lithuanian-Ukrainian (Cossack) man. It is normal in Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus etc. that families aren't "clear blooded", but are mixes of few nationalities.
I know, that my great-grandfathers spoke fluent lithuanian, but they were polish citizens.

To be honest it is pity, that our nations (Poland, Lithuania, Belarus, Latvia and Ukraine) are divided. When we were united there was no stronger country in Europe.

perdurabo

07-23-2008, 10:43 AM

against who this time? ;)
first we need to bring back all our lands, then combined we can think about going east or west p-)

perdurabo

07-23-2008, 10:47 AM

Kazimierz Siemienowicz was Polish noblemem. Noble family Siemienowicz, Ostoja coat of Arms, were originally from Poland.
when first union beatwin our nations emerged, lithuanian noblemans where adopted by polish noble families, given names and coats of arms...

lightfire

07-23-2008, 11:40 AM

If somebody here is troll it is you not me. Original name of Kazimierz Siemionowicz is Kazimierz Siemionowicz. He called himself Kazimierz Siemionowicz and was called by others Kazimierz Siemionowicz. Punto y finito.

in polish - yes. What he called himself - I've already told you and he was born near Raseiniai, in Zemaitija (Samogitia), not a very polish place.

Noble family Siemienowicz, Ostoja coat of Arms

that is a gues, since no detailed bio survived. Thus, lithuanian nobles, just like perudurabo said, have got polish names. That don't make the polish in origins and ethnicity.

Official language of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth were Polish and Latin. Official language of pre-Commonwealth Lithuania was Ruthenian language. True Lithuanians were Poles and Ruthenians not Samogitians. Polish-Ruthenian identity of Lithuania was stolen by modern Samogitians.

So, your Samogitian names are brutal falsification. We know that now in Lithuania Polish minority is under oppression, Polish names are lithuanising by force, Polish inscriptions on buildings are erazing, Polish pre-war property is still not returned to Polish owners, Polish historical persons are lithuanising, Polish schools are not financed equally with Lithuanian schools etc.etc. Lithuanian nationalist even made rumour that Polish White-Red flag on Polish Embassy is to large and provocative... Lithuania still not recognised and apologized for collaboration with Nazis and mass murder of 20-30.000 Poles and 60-70.000 Jews in Ponary Forest.
But wait a few year when EU and NATO will collapse and Polish soldiers will come again to Wilno...

And now, shut up your dirty mouth.

qouted and reported for trolling, stupidity, false facts, calls to start ethnic war. In earlier days you'd recieve DOTW awards, congradulations.

In Polish wikipedia they called him polish-lithuanian nobleman... I like this version.

yup, politcorrect and historically acurate term ;)

Exactly... who cares whether you are Poles or Lithuanians... all of you are slavic barbarians anyway

thank you, we are not slavs though:) Barbarians in the past...mmmm..ok. :)

Vympel

07-23-2008, 12:44 PM

KAZIMIERZ SIEMIENOWICZ, you poor lithuanian shauvinist...

I'm not even a Lithuanian:D Heh, take Adomas Mickevičius instead, if you want him so much

Vympel

07-23-2008, 01:02 PM

Lithuania Polish minority is under oppression
Wow:D My gf is polish, and the only thing she is oppressed is by me when im on top:D

Polish names are lithuanising by force
khem, Polish names has some letters, witch was removed from lithuanian alphabet. Anyway, do you care are you Wacław or Vaclovasasas. No, really, i hate when with my surname people use +"as"

Polish inscriptions on buildings are erazing
That wouldn't be happened if not your herous Armja krajowa works in Wilno..

Polish pre-war property is still not returned to Polish owners, Polish historical persons are lithuanising, Polish schools are not financed equally with Lithuanian schools etc.etc.
Same thing not only with polish, so step in line.

Lithuanian nationalist even made rumour that Polish White-Red flag on Polish Embassy is to large and provocative
Nationalists are nationalist. They should be shot everywhere...

Lithuania still not recognised and apologized for collaboration with Nazis and mass murder of 20-30.000 Poles and 60-70.000 Jews in Ponary Forest.
Wait when Lithuania will get compensation from SU ocupation, and then new world economical power would spare reparations to Poland.

But wait a few year when EU and NATO will collapse and Polish soldiers will come again to Wilno...
Not genocide thing again please

Switek

07-23-2008, 02:28 PM

geez... what an idiot! :cantbeli:... The national identification and differences between Poles and Lithuanians begun in mid of 19th century.

Seems I lost lot of fun here... :(

lightfire

07-23-2008, 03:48 PM

The national identification and differences between Poles and Lithuanians begun in mid of 19th century.

well, not exactly so..

we had some confrontation in late XIII and first half of XIV centries - mostly border raids and disputes over Halich-Volyn, then again in mid XV centries and before the Union of Lublin.

Despite the core of the conflict was the rich border lands lithuanians and poles identified themselves quite differently, I suppose.

The events of the "birth of nations" in the second half of XIX centry has clearly fastened this proces. With educated people comming up front the perception of nations and nationalities has made quite a distinctive separation. Yet too far I gues.

Nationalities formed and the zenit of those differences (nationalistic moods, polish imperial ambitions etc) was reached in the beginning of the 1920-ties with yet another military confrontation.

The hatred towards each other has continued during the interwar period and even during the war, but it was rappidly surpressed by the dictate of the soviet power (ironically).

I find it quite a pleasent miracle, that our relations are on this fine level today.

Realy hope for a good joint Grunwald movie and celebration day on 2010 :)

Switek

07-23-2008, 04:15 PM

Well taking into consideration a "modern" nationalism 19th century seems accurate. Before it a matter of "national" identification was, err... incidental, I guess.

From your perspective I should feel more more Greater Pole than Polish... If you know what I mean. And I, in some extent, really do. I know that we here are "other" Poles, but Poles anyway.

CPL Trevoga

07-23-2008, 10:45 PM

To be honest it is pity, that our nations (Poland, Lithuania, Belarus, Latvia and Ukraine) are divided. When we were united there was no stronger country in Europe.

You forgot Russia. Russia, Ukraine and Belarus are one people.

Actually such Union almost came to existence under Rzechpospolita in 17th century, but because Polish king insisted pushing his Latin faith, boyars chose to fight. Pity, that could have been most powerful state in the world.

Vympel

07-24-2008, 04:37 AM

Believe me, it's better for us all to stay apart:)

Pity, that could have been most powerful state in the world.
Hm, most powerfull? Maybe yes, but there allways would be threat from nuclear capable West rome empire.

perdurabo

07-24-2008, 07:46 AM

You forgot Russia. Russia, Ukraine and Belarus are one people.

Actually such Union almost came to existence under Rzechpospolita in 17th century, but because Polish king insisted pushing his Latin faith, boyars chose to fight. Pity, that could have been most powerful state in the world.
yep, sad thing thanks to this catolic faith of king we had also wars with swedes :-( as king Kazimierz was from Wasa dynasty and for some time evn king of Sweeden but thanks to his stupid faith protestants in Sweeden took power and kincked him out so we took Estonia and war continued...
CPL where are you? Old Polsha? Lviv?
Vympel now yes i agree better stay each in own country with all free trade, travel etc from EU but buck then it would be realy good apart from nobleman there was no national identity and nobleman thought that they are more brothers with other nobleman than own peasants so creating one country like Rzeczpospolita of 4 or 5 nations(Poles, Lithuanians, Cossacs, Russins) wouldn't be that hard... shame we lacked wise king like Jagiello or Batory later...

shadowsrider

07-24-2008, 09:03 AM

If you want new Union brothers Lithuanians you should multiply faster woot
Because population disproportion is much larger then in Commonwealth times. So maybe union with all Baltic states.
But now START PRODUCING CHILDREN

CPL Trevoga

07-24-2008, 03:08 PM

CPL where are you? Old Polsha? Lviv?

Western Belorussia = Old Poland.

Polonevichi (Palanevichiy) is an actual place where I used to go fishing a kid. About 500 meters from there where 1936-9 Soviet build concrete gun bunkers. We also found an old Polish border post few km from it. Only after communism sellout, I've learned that this was Polish territory taken over in 1939, but we had our suspicions, even the explanation wasn't taught in schools :)

click

07-24-2008, 06:36 PM

Poland STRONG !!1!11!!

little icebear

07-24-2008, 07:25 PM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00646/news-graphics-2007-_646868a.jpg

Very strong, indeed. :)

Don´t mind me, folks, I´m just stopping by to remind you of your inferiority since your flying high again. p-)

CHERK

07-24-2008, 07:39 PM

Western Belorussia = Old Poland.

Polonevichi (Palanevichiy) is an actual place where I used to go fishing a kid. About 500 meters from there where 1936-9 Soviet build concrete gun bunkers. We also found an old Polish border post few km from it. Only after communism sellout, I've learned that this was Polish territory taken over in 1939, but we had our suspicions, even the explanation wasn't taught in schools :)

Where exactly was it? Which oblast? What is the nearest town?

Holycrusader

07-25-2008, 04:02 AM

Very strong, indeed. :)

Don´t mind me, folks, I´m just stopping by to remind you of your inferiority since your flying high again. p-)

Inferiority to who?

little icebear

07-25-2008, 04:30 AM

Holycrusader

07-25-2008, 06:49 AM

Ze tschörmän masterrace of course!

I hope it´s obvious that I´m just kidding... I just continued because two younger members took my first posting in this thread a little bit too serious, so I went on with pushing their buttons. ;)

As an inferior slavs I have nothing against master races as long as I can drink local beer

perdurabo

07-25-2008, 09:16 AM

Ze tschörmän masterrace of course!

I hope it´s obvious that I´m just kidding... I just continued because two younger members took my first posting in this thread a little bit too serious, so I went on with pushing their buttons. ;)
wait this master race we are talking about:
http://www.germany-tourism.ie/images/content/pic_koelntwoboys_med_neu.jpg
well then yeah we feel inferior to your gaynes level :roll:
edit: wrong pic

shadowsrider

07-25-2008, 11:32 AM

guys please, it was such a nice historical thread...

Rumcajs

07-25-2008, 06:24 PM

Our barbarian nations united beaten the first EU what a shame... :)
BTW it was rather Russes than Russians participating in the battle. If I remember well this was 2000 Knights of Smolensk regiments, which was the best equipped from Lithuanian contingent.
And Czech contigent was avoiding fight and had to be twice redirected to batlle while hiding in forest (the history or legend says that its leader for this shame was never again let into marriage bedroom by his wife)

I haven't heard that Teutonic knights were directed against Muscovy or Novogrod.
Just to remind: they were invited into Polish territory by duke Konrad Mazowiecki to beat the Prussians who were invading his lands and they estabilished their state in Prussian territory.

From this point they started conquer of pagan Lithuania.

Then citizens of Gdansk/Danzig invaded by Brandenburgians asked Teutons for help. Teutons defeated Brandenburgians and ... seized Gdansk for themselves. From this point they went on track of inevitable conflict with Poland.

So Polish feudals intended to use Teutonic Knights agaist Prussians and maybe Lithuanians (before creation of Polish-Lithanian Commonwealth) and Brandenburgians but never heard they wanted to use them against Orthodox states

I've read it in "Mowia Wieki" historical magazine.
But I've just found this story (Polish): http://www.synaj.com/grunwald/1410.htm

Shortly: after Lithuanian retreat Czech St.George's banner under command of Jan Sarnowski hidden in forest. Noticed by chancellor Nicolaus demanding explaination (this was in the magazine not in this webpage) they explained that they did not receive their salary. But Nicolaus himself paid this salary just before so he became furious, Czechs and Moravians went back to fight blaming their commander for this retreat. Sarnowski was forever ashamed and rejected by his wife. Died soon after.

what the f..ck you talking about???????????? The Leader of Czech condingent of 3000 soldiers was zemský hejtman Jan Sokol z Lamberka called Wild Falcon, and only thanx to him and Czech attack from right flank crusaders were surrounded, there were soldiers and commanders as Jan Žižka, Jan Roháč z Dubé etc in Czech contingent... you can doubt about these names? so who is the f..ck "Jan Sarnowski" (even it looks like polish name). In Czech history don´t exist a name "Jan Sarnowski"

"And Czech contigent was avoiding fight and had to be twice redirected to batlle while hiding in forest (the history or legend says that its leader for this shame was never again let into marriage bedroom by his wife)"
what is this? another polish bull**** phrase as about the 1938 year????

guys please, it was such a nice historical thread...

so post relevant historical sources, not bull****s

CPL Trevoga

07-25-2008, 08:44 PM

Where exactly was it? Which oblast? What is the nearest town?

original name: Polonevichi
geographical location: Minsk, Belarus, Europe
geographical coordinates: 53° 38' 0" North, 26° 56' 0" East

http://www.maplandia.com/belarus/minsk/polonevichi/

CHERK

07-26-2008, 08:19 PM

Western Belorussia = Old Poland.

Polonevichi (Palanevichiy) is an actual place where I used to go fishing a kid. About 500 meters from there where 1936-9 Soviet build concrete gun bunkers. We also found an old Polish border post few km from it. Only after communism sellout, I've learned that this was Polish territory taken over in 1939, but we had our suspicions, even the explanation wasn't taught in schools :)

I used to go fishing as a kid on summers at about 120 km to the north, and there also were some old bunkers.

shadowsrider

07-28-2008, 09:16 AM

what the f..ck you talking about???????????? The Leader of Czech condingent of 3000 soldiers was zemský hejtman Jan Sokol z Lamberka called Wild Falcon, and only thanx to him and Czech attack from right flank crusaders were surrounded, there were soldiers and commanders as Jan Žižka, Jan Roháč z Dubé etc in Czech contingent... you can doubt about these names? so who is the f..ck "Jan Sarnowski" (even it looks like polish name). In Czech history don´t exist a name "Jan Sarnowski"

Don't cry babe, behave like a man p-)
First: not crusaders but teutons, or Knights of St Mary of German Order or whatever.
Second: I have never seen in historical estimates the figure of 3000 Czech forces. It was one banner so it means that it was a few hundred people.
Third: yes, you are right, Jan Sokol was the leader of Czech forces but he was so honored by the Polish king that he was taken to personal guards (according to relations I have)
Fourth: Story with Jan Sarnowski is from chronicles of Jan Dlugosz so it is historical source. Anyway he was making mistakes and could change his name slightly. It is said that Jan Sarnowski was the St.George's unit banner keeper. Questioned by chancellor Nicolaus why they are standing in forest (it happened after Lithuanian retreat) told that this evil man (Jan Sarnowski) took them here.
Fifth: I've just made a quick query at Czech websites and there is no certeinity that Zizka was at Grunwald, it is just a rumour. While Jan Sokol was for sure.
Sixth: Arguments not f..cks please. I would willingly learn something if you give proper link

Rumcajs

07-29-2008, 07:56 AM

Don't cry babe, behave like a man p-)
First: not crusaders but teutons, or Knights of St Mary of German Order or whatever.
Second: I have never seen in historical estimates the figure of 3000 Czech forces. It was one banner so it means that it was a few hundred people.
Third: yes, you are right, Jan Sokol was the leader of Czech forces but he was so honored by the Polish king that he was taken to personal guards (according to relations I have)
Fourth: Story with Jan Sarnowski is from chronicles of Jan Dlugosz so it is historical source. Anyway he was making mistakes and could change his name slightly. It is said that Jan Sarnowski was the St.George's unit banner keeper. Questioned by chancellor Nicolaus why they are standing in forest (it happened after Lithuanian retreat) told that this evil man (Jan Sarnowski) took them here.
Fifth: I've just made a quick query at Czech websites and there is no certeinity that Zizka was at Grunwald, it is just a rumour. While Jan Sokol was for sure.
Sixth: Arguments not f..cks please. I would willingly learn something if you give proper link

this sentence say everything about your knowledge...
as I sad, post serious information and serious historical sources, don´t post you personal speculations. I am graduate of Charles University in Prague, discipline History (Czech medieval history, History of the 20th centrury), so that´s worthless to argue to you, just try to study real historical source, the first of all: František Šmahel, Husitská revoluce 1-5, Karolinum, Praha 1996 (every book has about 500 pages)...