One million names on US terror watch list !

[eurekaa]

One million names on US terror watch list

A watch list of suspected and known terrorists, compiled by the US authorities, has ballooned and contains more than one million names, the American Civil Liberties Union said Monday.

The ACLU said it derived that figure from a Justice Department report on the FBI’s Terrorist Screening Center, which consolidates terrorist watch list information.

The Center “had over 700,000 names in its database as of April 2007 and that the list was growing by an average of over 20,000 records per month,” according to a report by the Justice Department Inspector General, the rights group said.

“By those numbers, the list now has over one million names on it,” the ACLU said in a statement.

Click here to read the full report (http://www.onlines.ws/?p=777)


ONE MILLION NAMES !!

Does this mean that 0.006% of people on this planet are defined / listed as TERRORIST !

I'm wondering if its they listed my name also , do they collect the names from the phone book :)

[Bushranger]

I heard this on the radio & was like no way how are they categorising people??

[Invisigoth]

I heard this on the radio & was like no way how are they categorising people??

People the government doesn't like?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-moore/branded_b_13272.html

Dumbest idea ever. Saturating the list with people critical of the government complicates finding people who really need to be on that list, i.e. people wanting to blow up ****.

[Ichhabe]

There was something about this on 60 minutes some months ago. All people that had similare or the same name as terrorist was also on that list, all but bin Laden. I hope they have him on now. Would suck to sit on the window seat and have him in the middle seat stealing the arm rest.

[Ariha]

ONE MILLION NAMES !!

Does this mean that 0.006% of people on this planet are defined / listed as TERRORIST !

I'm wondering if its they listed my name also , do they collect the names from the phone book :)

Those who adhere to Islam and to the Quran are potential terrorists.

[Calanen]

Those who adhere to Islam and to the Quran are potential terrorists.

I disagree with that. There are loads of muslims who would rather drink tea in cafes than have a jihad. The problem is knowing, which ones support terror and which ones don't. There is no reliable way to tell.

The terrorist watch list basically puts *anyone* on it that has a controversial viewpoint in the United States. Islamic fundies, leftists, neonazis, even anti-Jihad people like Robert Spencer. I read an article some time ago that a nun had been placed on the terror watch list because she had been arrested for a protest during the Vietnam war.

I have no problem with a terror watch list, however, I think you should be told (if possible) that you are on it, and given the opportunity to go before a judge and say, hey that's not me or I am no threat to anyone.

There is also a DO NOT FLY list, which is worse, prevents people from flying at all. There is no way to check why you are on it, respond to allegations made in support of putting you there, and no way to remove yourself from it. That shouldnt happen. Anyone on that list, unless on the run, should have the chance to have their day in court.

[Holycrusader]

Those who adhere to Islam and to the Quran are potential terrorists.

wow, just wow...
You never cease to amazing me Ariha...

[Moledet]

wow, just wow...
You never cease to amazing me Ariha...
I don't think he's that wrong. Hey eureeka after all said that if the Palestinians agree to a peace agreement that keeps East Jerusalem under Israeli control than a billion Muslims will attack Israel. I'd call that potential terrorism.

[Fiber]

Aren't we all potential terrorists, murderers, philanthropists, politicians? I hope this post doesn't get me on the list - If I'm not already there.

[Mackie]

Those who adhere to fundemantal religious groups and to the "Holy" books are potential terrorists.

correct it for you

[Holycrusader]

I don't think he's that wrong. Hey eureeka after all said that if the Palestinians agree to a peace agreement that keeps East Jerusalem under Israeli control than a billion Muslims will attack Israel. I'd call that potential terrorism.

Eurekaa represents a billion Muslims in your opinion? Maybe Ariha represents all the Israel then?

[Invisigoth]

I disagree with that. There are loads of muslims who would rather drink tea in cafes than have a jihad. The problem is knowing, which ones support terror and which ones don't. There is no reliable way to tell.

The terrorist watch list basically puts *anyone* on it that has a controversial viewpoint in the United States. Islamic fundies, leftists, neonazis, even anti-Jihad people like Robert Spencer.


Do you even listen to yourself? You're basically saying that dissent from right-wing ideology should warrant you being labeled as a potential terrorist? What's a 'controversial viewpoint'? Being in favor of civil liberties?

[Fiber]

Do you even listen to yourself? You're basically saying that dissent from right-wing ideology should warrant you being labeled as a potential terrorist? What's a 'controversial viewpoint'? Being in favor of civil liberties?

I can't see him condoning the practice anywhere.

[Ariha]

correct it for you

If you don´t have a more elaborate opinion and it works for you, works for me too. Have a good hibernation.

[Macs.]

The terrorist watch list basically puts *anyone* on it that has a controversial viewpoint in the United States. Islamic fundies, leftists, neonazis, even anti-Jihad people like Robert Spencer. I read an article some time ago that a nun had been placed on the terror watch list because she had been arrested for a protest during the Vietnam war.

Yeah, that sounds very nice. So, if I have a "controversial viewpoint" I get on this list ? <-Thats a pretty big thing there, and can mean ALOT of things.

And what is the next step of this "Watchlist" ? You can't tell me they just save some names there.


I have no problem with a terror watch list, however, I think you should be told (if possible) that you are on it, and given the opportunity to go before a judge and say, hey that's not me or I am no threat to anyone.

What kind of banana republic would that be ?

The Goverment, the people who say you are a terrorist or a threat to society have to proof that YOU are such a dangerous individual, not the other way around.

There should be a "Terror watchlist", but first of all it shouldn't be called "Terror Watchlist" when it has a million names in them - If there were that much terrorist/potential-terrorists in the US, then I would except some more terror attacks. Like every other week.

Typical naming for that list. Ofcourse it's the "Terror Watchlist"... What, you are against a "Terror Watchlist" ? Do you support Terrorists or what ?


There is also a DO NOT FLY list, which is worse, prevents people from flying at all. There is no way to check why you are on it, respond to allegations made in support of putting you there, and no way to remove yourself from it. That shouldnt happen. Anyone on that list, unless on the run, should have the chance to have their day in court.

Yeah, wasn't there a case of a child that wouldn't be allowed to fly because of his name ?

Land of the free etc... Well, unless you don't have a "controversial viewpoint" or a stupid name. We put you on this list, just in-case...

[Calanen]

Do you even listen to yourself? You're basically saying that dissent from right-wing ideology should warrant you being labeled as a potential terrorist? What's a 'controversial viewpoint'? Being in favor of civil liberties?

I don't think you listened to me or read what I said. I didnt say that at all. Read it again. You like to be morally outraged about something, and if there is not sufficient outrage there in what was actually said, you manufacturer it yourself.

The Terror Watch List puts a load of different people on it, whether it should or not is another view. Lefties, Nazis, etc - do I think that is correct? Hard for me to say.

I never said, and never intended to say that this was the way it should be handled. Only that anyone who goes on it should go before a judge.

For the record, I think putting Robert Spencer and people like him (right wing anti-jihadis) on the Terror Watch list is ridiculous.

[Ariha]

Eurekaa represents a billion Muslims in your opinion? Maybe Ariha represents all the Israel then?


I wouldn´t be very uncomfortable representing Israel in this facet. Just to make your brain work a little bit today: show me a billion of jews, a million of jews, 100.000 jews, or even 1000 jews who do this

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

or spread the murderous Jihad ideology (the real one, not all this babble about the Jihad of the Spririt and the rest of taqiyya) in synagogues of every inhabited continent. Show me every synagogue that spreads murderous ideology being financed by Israel like the thousands of jihadi mosques all across the USA/Europe receive financial support from Morocco,Saudi Arabia, the Gulf Emirate of Iran.

Show me jewish adherents manifesting in front of Western embassies saying that "we will kill you all and take your women as booty" in the heart of London. Or banners like "Europe is the cancer, Jews are the answer", "Jews will dominate the world", before/after terror attacks like 11/3 in Madrid and 7/7 in London.

The blindness of the people like you ceased to amaze me sometime ago, just embrace the sweet death.

[Calanen]

I don't think he's that wrong. Hey eureeka after all said that if the Palestinians agree to a peace agreement that keeps East Jerusalem under Israeli control than a billion Muslims will attack Israel. I'd call that potential terrorism.

I'm thinking the Muslims in Indonesia are going to have a hard time getting up into the Middle East en masse. Also, wars against Israel by the combined islamic nations in 1948, 1967 and 1973 did not go so well for them as we both know....

[Holycrusader]

I wouldn´t be very uncomfortable representing Israel in this facet. Just to make your brain work a little bit today: show me a billion of jews, a million of jews, 100.000 jews, or even 1000 jews who do this

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

or spread the murderous Jihad ideology (the real one, not all this babble about the Jihad of the Spririt and the rest of taqiyya) in synagogues of every inhabited continent. Show me every synagogue that spreads murderous ideology being financed by Israel like the thousands of jihadi mosques all across the USA/Europe receive financial support from Morocco,Saudi Arabia, the Gulf Emirate of Iran.

Show me jewish adherents manifesting in front of Western embassies saying that "we will kill you all and take your women as booty" in the heart of London. Or banners like "Europe is the cancer, Jews are the answer", "Jews will dominate the world", before/after terror attacks like 11/3 in Madrid and 7/7 in London.

The blindness of the people like you ceased to amaze me sometime ago, just embrace the sweet death.

I can always show you as an example what blind hate make with people. I do not have any problem when somebody says "Osama bin Laden is terrorist" but I always will have problem with people like you who says "All Osama's are terrorist". I hope you understand my point...

[Ariha]

I can always show you as an example what blind hate make with people. I do not have any problem when somebody says "Osama bin Laden is terrorist" but I always will have problem with people like you who says "All Osama's are terrorist". I hope you understand my point...

I think that it´s you who doesn´t understand my point, maybe that´s why you push the "report the post" button so often: what I say is "all Osamas subject to the influence of a mass murderous ideology, like all the Adolphs are POTENTIAL terrorists". And if you check the reality, go again to the link I posted, maybe you´ll admit things like they are.

[Holycrusader]

I think that it´s you who doesn´t understand my point, maybe that´s why you push the "report the post" button so often: what I say is "all Osamas subject to the influence of a mass murderous ideology, like all the Adolphs are POTENTIAL terrorists". And if you check the reality, go again to the link I posted, maybe you´ll admit things like they are.

I just failed to see how Islam is mass murderous ideology... You just trying to spread hate.

[Invisigoth]

The Terror Watch List puts a load of different people on it (...) Lefties, Nazis, etc - do I think that is correct? Hard for me to say. I got you exactly the way you meant it. You're saying that 'Lefties' who are put on the list should 'go before a judge' to justify themselves. They should defend their point of view? Whatever happened to the government proving your guilt of something rather than vice versa?

This is absolutely appalling and, no offense, but if you don't think it's wrong to persecute people for dissenting views, then what is? I am not manufacturing outrage, this is outrageous and I don't quite understand how you don't see that.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

I got you exactly the way you meant it. You're saying that 'Lefties' who are put on the list should 'go before a judge' to justify themselves. They should defend their point of view? Whatever happened to the government proving your guilt of something rather than vice versa?

This is absolutely appalling and, no offense, but if you don't think it's wrong to persecute people for dissenting views, then what is? I am not manufacturing outrage, this is outrageous and I don't quite understand how you don't see that.

It's the land of the free unless you disagree in some way with the freedom loving neocon hive mind.

[CMNot]

1 million? lol.

Don't worry everybody, Team Bureaucrat will save you :roll:

[Calanen]

I just failed to see how Islam is mass murderous ideology... You just trying to spread hate.

I don't believe that.

But the problem of the poor image of Islam is exacerbated far more by jihadis with guns and bombs, than it is through Westerners noticing what they are doing. The bad PR of Islam is primarily propagated through the words and deeds of jihadis, and convincing the Westerners not to notice this is happening is a bad means of addressing it.

The problem also is the West and Western people know very little about Islamic ideology. We are told what it says, but not shown what it says. Shouldn't we be looking at the ideologies within the religion itself, and saying, hang on a sec..but it says something completely different to what you are telling me it says?

Let's assume, just for the sake of argument, just an assumption. A set of assumptions. Let us assume the following. A religion has doctrines within it that promote the following things (remember this is just an assumption):

1) Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them, unless they convert to that religion or will become dhimmis;

2) There is no law, but the religious law, and it is the duty of every member of the religion to instal; religious law and remove infidel law;

3) Women have a secondary place to men in both the ideal legal system under religious law, as well as in the home;

4) Polygamy is acceptable.

All of the above are inconsistent with Western values. The West is about tolerance and freedom, whereas Islam in its practical form provides very little tolerance for anyone else. The sovereign governments with islamic bases are not tolerant of anything that deviates from the Islamic rules. Why would people who follow these rules that move to the West suddenly become tolerant of the same things their governments despise? Some might - but wouldnt some, also, continue to have those beliefs that are incompatible with Western values?

And what if, a religion has teachings consistent with those values within them - and that some muslims follow such teachings. How do you reconcile that with multiculturalism that nothing is good or bad? Should you be tolerant of someone who has no tolerance for you or actively wishes you dead?

Now let us just assume, that a religion believed the above assumptions. Wouldnt you want to know? Wouldnt you want to talk about it? Should it really be the case that you can NEVER talk about it, because these facts are uncomfortable? Would being killed in a jihad be more or less uncomfortable than talking about the doctrine of jihad in Islam?

You can't keep importing unlimited amounts of people into a society that have values which are diammetrically opposed to those the West is built on and expect with references to some notion of tolerance or multiculturalism that everyone is still going to get along.

[Mastermind]

Do you even listen to yourself? You're basically saying that dissent from right-wing ideology should warrant you being labeled as a potential terrorist? What's a 'controversial viewpoint'? Being in favor of civil liberties?
Do you, Invisigoth, even read what you are responding to...or are you just knee-jerking here? Where in the world did you come up with that deducted conclusion from what Calanen wrote?

[Ariha]

I don't believe that.

But the problem of the poor image of Islam is exacerbated far more by jihadis with guns and bombs, than it is through Westerners noticing what they are doing. The bad PR of Islam is primarily propagated through the words and deeds of jihadis, and convincing the Westerners not to notice this is happening is a bad means of addressing it.

The problem also is the West and Western people know very little about Islamic ideology. We are told what it says, but not shown what it says. Shouldn't we be looking at the ideologies within the religion itself, and saying, hang on a sec..but it says something completely different to what you are telling me it says?

Let's assume, just for the sake of argument, just an assumption. A set of assumptions. Let us assume the following. A religion has doctrines within it that promote the following things (remember this is just an assumption):

1) Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them, unless they convert to that religion or will become dhimmis;

2) There is no law, but the religious law, and it is the duty of every member of the religion to instal; religious law and remove infidel law;

3) Women have a secondary place to men in both the ideal legal system under religious law, as well as in the home;

4) Polygamy is acceptable.

All of the above are inconsistent with Western values. The West is about tolerance and freedom, whereas Islam in its practical form provides very little tolerance for anyone else. The sovereign governments with islamic bases are not tolerant of anything that deviates from the Islamic rules. Why would people who follow these rules that move to the West suddenly become tolerant of the same things their governments despise? Some might - but wouldnt some, also, continue to have those beliefs that are incompatible with Western values?

And what if, a religion has teachings consistent with those values within them - and that some muslims follow such teachings. How do you reconcile that with multiculturalism that nothing is good or bad? Should you be tolerant of someone who has no tolerance for you or actively wishes you dead?

Now let us just assume, that a religion believed the above assumptions. Wouldnt you want to know? Wouldnt you want to talk about it? Should it really be the case that you can NEVER talk about it, because these facts are uncomfortable? Would being killed in a jihad be more or less uncomfortable than talking about the doctrine of jihad in Islam?

You can't keep importing unlimited amounts of people into a society that have values which are diammetrically opposed to those the West is built on and expect with references to some notion of tolerance or multiculturalism that everyone is still going to get along.

You can´t persuade someone not used to think independently and not used to extract conclusions after amassing the facts and deliberating with his logic and his conscience. He´s another "progressive" european zombie.

[Mastermind]

I just failed to see how Islam is mass murderous ideology... You just trying to spread hate.
You don't get out much, do you...or read much...or see the news on tv much...or talk to people in the real world...you know, that world outside the tin foil lined room.

[Lau]

Those who adhere to Islam and to the Quran are potential terrorists.

Sure. Like Jews, Christians and other religious numb-nuts! They are all potential terrorists...

[Calanen]

got you exactly the way you meant it. You're saying that 'Lefties' who are put on the list should 'go before a judge' to justify themselves. They should defend their point of view? Whatever happened to the government proving your guilt of something rather than vice versa?

If I believed in God, I would say Lord give me strength....

No, no, no. What I am saying is that if there is a terror watch list, that

ANYONE..

let me say that again:

ANYONE

who is on that list, unless it is not possible for national security reasons, should have the opportunity to go before a judge and show that they are not a threat to the public or involved or participating in terror.

At the moment there is no due process.

I am saying that there should be *due process* where there is none at the moment. You somehow construe from that, I am in fact saying 'Lefties Need to be on the Terror Watch List and Go to Court.' Reading Comprehension *fail*. If English is your second language you are forgiven of course.


This is absolutely appalling and, no offense, but if you don't think it's wrong to persecute people for dissenting views, then what is? I am not manufacturing outrage, this is outrageous and I don't quite understand how you don't see that.

The process by which people get on the terror watch list, I am not privy too - so its a bit hard to fault the Feds for putting anyone there. That there has to be some sort of watch list, cant be avoided. Who goes on there, or who should go on there is not for me to decide - its the intel guys. A perusal of those who made the list seems to demonstrate that mistakes have been made. All I am saying is that you should have your day in Court if the government wants to put you on there.

That comment has somehow been turned by you into Calanen wants all the Lefties charged in court and put on the Terror Watch list. Again, ridiculous.

[eurekaa]

Those who adhere to Islam and to the Quran are potential terrorists.


I don't think he's that wrong. Hey eureeka after all said that if the Palestinians agree to a peace agreement that keeps East Jerusalem under Israeli control than a billion Muslims will attack Israel. I'd call that potential terrorism.

Hmm ,
Maybe after all if we search for the original source of the list's we'll discover that its made in Tel- Aviv , Not the U.S.A :) ( kidding )

If you'r going to mention/involve the Islam and Quran in every thread /discussion then better to open a separate religious thread to compare Quran's verses you declined or you think its racist / or support the terrorism or anti-human to similar verses in your Torah itself .. and I bit you do not need this ..


For me I do not support these kind of discussions /debates not because I cant argue you , but because it'll lead us to no where at the end ..

The Problem not what the Quran or Torah say , but how these verses are interpreted ..

[Ali Baba]

eurekaa (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=52791) I Tip My Hat to You,

I Hate How Everything has to Fall Back on Ideologies and Religions.


just Blame Michel Jackson,.

[Laworkerbee]

just Blame Michel Jackson,.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k141/laworkerbee/arton8552.jpg
Michael Jackson is pop king of sick ****ing country.

[CMNot]

just Blame Michel Jackson,.

Fail.

Blame it on the boogie.

[Flagg]

Somewhat back on topic, and somewhat light-hearted, I know of two young girls/sisters who were 7 and 9 this time last year who had been put on some list(not sure which) making it extremely difficult for them and their parents to travel by plane. And it was the children only, not the parents or any other family members that were on "the list".

They learned about it when attempting to fly to Florida from California for holiday in early 2007. When we met up with them in the middle of 2007 they drove to my wife's family reunion rather than trying to go through the hassle of flying. They did not seem to be the kind of people to bullsh!t.

I don't understand exactly how and why it all happened, but needless to say it was a bit surreal....but I did keep an eye on them for any nefarious terrorist activity :)

[LaoSexMachine]

How many of these names are actually real people or different name same people?

[Calanen]

http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/reports/FBI/a0741/final.pdf

DOJ report on the Terror Watch List.

[Rynnäkkökivääri]

So, who's watching all 1 million of them?

[TR1]

Well. because of my name i can guarantee 100% I'm on it.

[Bringer of Greater Things]

I'm reconsidering my plan to give my first-born son the middle name 'Hussein.'

[eurekaa]

So, who's watching all 1 million of them?

Good Point :)

[loganinkosovo]

I just hope the ACLU is right at the top of the list. :)

[Holycrusader]

You don't get out much, do you...or read much...or see the news on tv much...or talk to people in the real world...you know, that world outside the tin foil lined room.

That was some kind of joke?

[ting]

I can`t remember were I heard it, but I seem to remember that there were names on this list which had been used as cover names by criminals etc? The result being that names like john smith are on the list. Meaning the list would encompass more people than the people on the list. Have I got it wrong?

[Macs.]

I can`t remember were I heard it, but I seem to remember that there were names on this list which had been used as cover names by criminals etc? The result being that names like john smith are on the list. Meaning the list would encompass more people than the people on the list. Have I got it wrong?

I guess that is how it works, otherwise I can't explain something like this:

"A five-year-old boy was taken into custody and thoroughly searched at Sea-Tac because his name is similar to a possible terrorist alias. As the Consumerist reports, "When his mother went to pick him up and hug him and comfort him during the proceedings, she was told not to touch him because he was a national security risk. They also had to frisk her again to make sure the little Dillinger hadn't passed anything dangerous weapons or materials to his mother when she hugged him."

"It's a case of a mistaken identity for a 5-year-old boy from Normandy Park. He had trouble boarding a plane because someone with the same name is wanted by the federal government. Mimi Jung reports from Sea-Tac Airport."

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/01/09/tsa-searches-detains.html

[Lau]

I guess that is how it works, otherwise I can't explain something like this:

"A five-year-old boy was taken into custody and thoroughly searched at Sea-Tac because his name is similar to a possible terrorist alias. As the Consumerist reports, "When his mother went to pick him up and hug him and comfort him during the proceedings, she was told not to touch him because he was a national security risk. They also had to frisk her again to make sure the little Dillinger hadn't passed anything dangerous weapons or materials to his mother when she hugged him."

"It's a case of a mistaken identity for a 5-year-old boy from Normandy Park. He had trouble boarding a plane because someone with the same name is wanted by the federal government. Mimi Jung reports from Sea-Tac Airport."

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/01/09/tsa-searches-detains.html

He he.. Class story! rofl

[a_very_ex_STAB]

I guess that is how it works, otherwise I can't explain something like this:

"A five-year-old boy was taken into custody and thoroughly searched at Sea-Tac because his name is similar to a possible terrorist alias. As the Consumerist reports, "When his mother went to pick him up and hug him and comfort him during the proceedings, she was told not to touch him because he was a national security risk. They also had to frisk her again to make sure the little Dillinger hadn't passed anything dangerous weapons or materials to his mother when she hugged him."

"It's a case of a mistaken identity for a 5-year-old boy from Normandy Park. He had trouble boarding a plane because someone with the same name is wanted by the federal government. Mimi Jung reports from Sea-Tac Airport."

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/01/09/tsa-searches-detains.html

The War on Terror is a paradise for unemployable jobsworths in Western countries.

Can't get a real job?

'Work' in airport security where you can mong around all day with your head up your arrse with all the fringe benefits in terms of feeling 'empowered' that being able to jerk around members of the public will bring you.:roll:

[Ariha]

Hmm ,
Maybe after all if we search for the original source of the list's we'll discover that its made in Tel- Aviv , Not the U.S.A :) ( kidding )

If you'r going to mention/involve the Islam and Quran in every thread /discussion then better to open a separate religious thread to compare Quran's verses you declined or you think its racist / or support the terrorism or anti-human to similar verses in your Torah itself .. and I bit you do not need this ..


For me I do not support these kind of discussions /debates not because I cant argue you , but because it'll lead us to no where at the end ..

The Problem not what the Quran or Torah say , but how these verses are interpreted ..

There are no similar verses beetween the Quran and the Torah, the first is a partial plagiarism and a personal interpretation of a semi-illiterate man, that in no way was a man of G-d not by his words less by his deeds. By the way the quran was "assembled" a century and a half after this man died.

You are free to open a thread about the Quran and the Torah the day you please.

[Ariha]

I just failed to see how Islam is mass murderous ideology... You just trying to spread hate.

I suggest you to pay attention about what is going on today with the exchange of Kuntar and 191 bodies for the two dead/murdered Israeli soldiers.

First wacth closely the body language of the people involved.

Then read carefully how they celebrate the return of a baby killer and ask yourself if you and your countrymen would show joy in similar circumstances. Look how those who are celebrating the return of Kuntar the baby murderer are not the "terrorist minority" but the "normal" people of the everyday street. Then hear/read the statements of the arab/moslum politicians expressing joy and satisfaction and saying that more (kidnappings) is to come.

The vast majority of arab/moslums are celebrating the release of a child killer and taking pleasure from the grief of the jews. Are they all terrorists? No; they are brutalized people subject to a brainwashing ideology called Islam that dehumanize the other, just like the nazis have done before. When you are brainwashed and you dehumanize the other you are a potential danger for you fellow human.

[eurekaa]

There are no similar verses beetween the Quran and the Torah, the first is a partial plagiarism and a personal interpretation of a semi-illiterate man, that in no way was a man of G-d not by his words less by his deeds. By the way the quran was "assembled" a century and a half after this man died.

You are free to open a thread about the Quran and the Torah the day you please.


Quran assembled a century and half after the death of our Prophet !!

In which futile source you found that ! ?

Please pick your sources carefully to avoid your self any cutting criticism , judging by your posts I know that you are so smart and very good educated person , this my opinion against you even if we have oppose believes and disagree with each other all the time , but unfortunately this last comment show how little you know about Islam / Quran and also shows the credibility's lack of your sources ..

This is not true ,

first it was assembled by Abu Baker who become Khalif after the death of the messenger of Islam right away , and at this time all Muslems already memorize the Quran by heart than and today .. then it was assembled again and written according to Othman bin Afan the 3rd Khalif after messenger of Islam .. ( this was 15 years after the messanger death ) , Because in his time he found that many people who get in Islam from Persia , Turkey and Georgia who basically do not know the Arabic language and start to read the Quran wrongly , then he assembled the Quran again , all he did is just standardizing the method of reading and writing the Quran .. ( and since this time we write the Quran with the same characters that we call it Quran Othmani ( Just Font ) , and all Muslems knows ) .

But since you mentioned that we may also discuss the Torah handwritting scripts ( including the Samaritan version and the Greek one that translated to the Hebrew version you have now ) , as far as I know your Torah was lost after Nebuchadnezzar 568 B.D till Kurash who release your ancestors of captivity in Babylon for 70 years , then it was written again by Ezra , and we both know the massive different between the Torah of Ezrah to the Samartian one .. and this is was not the end of the Torah story ..

Any way . this is not our topic .. and whatever I believe or you do or our religious scholars tell us it wont be more than historical theories that have nothing to do with our issue here , at the end its matter of personal believe and FAITH , Quran or Torah , Islam Or Jodism or even Christianity , at the end you`ll covenant your brain with the theories that match your personal faith ..

So , better to stop this , we are not preaching each other here ..

Cheers

[eurekaa]

By the way Ariha ..

Its first time I hear about Samir Kuntar , I do not know the real story about murdering the little girl Einat Kaisar..

those who defend Kunter says that his mission was to kidnap the father who works on nuclear project , and that the girl/father were killed in the fire cross started by Israeli side in attempt to drown their boat ..

Im not sure how right is this story , if they really killed by accident , its first time I hear about him and about this story , and maybe the same to you .. according to this story he is not a war criminal , and I do not see why not to celebrate his return ..

but for sure if this is was not the case and Samer Kunter really did kill the little girl on purpose as you say then I hope god gives him the punishment he deserve in this world and to send him to hell in judgment day ..

[shocker1]

The terrorist watch list basically puts *anyone* on it that has a controversial viewpoint in the United States. Islamic fundies, leftists, neonazis, even anti-Jihad people like Robert Spencer. I read an article some time ago that a nun had been placed on the terror watch list because she had been arrested for a protest during the Vietnam war.

I have no problem with a terror watch list, however, I think you should be told (if possible) that you are on it, and given the opportunity to go before a judge and say, hey that's not me or I am no threat to anyone.


Wow and people think I am crazy for writing government and bitchin about cameras, APC's for the local Police, seatbelt check points, Patriot Act, FISA changes that give powers on the basis of reasonably believe, even if an American. Man I could go on. I suspect I am on this list for bitchin if what you say is true.

What kind of country is this now? I know the Feds have always kept lists on Americans and stretched the law but damn. I bet we are all on a big list divided in smaller lists with even smaller lists. Who sets the standards when we move from probable cause to reasonably believe? What happens when it goes to full guilty until proven innocent? My God, terrorism has done this to my nation, how weak we are.

[DeathStalker]

There was something about this on 60 minutes some months ago. All people that had similare or the same name as terrorist was also on that list, all but bin Laden. I hope they have him on now. Would suck to sit on the window seat and have him in the middle seat stealing the arm rest.

O-o, without Osama the Colossal Uncle Sam wil lose perfect scarecrow for simple-minded americans. :)

[Fiber]

O-o, without Osama the Colossal Uncle Sam wil lose perfect scarecrow for simple-minded americans. :)

Reported for trolling in several threads.

[DeathStalker]

Squeal-squeal!

[Aerosoul]

Some of my family members are on this list. For no other reason than having similar or same names as some random son of a b*tch that may have said something "bad." They're certainly no Jihad-mongering Islamic terrorists.

1 million people, lol.

I saw the story on CNN today. One letter was sent in by someone saying they were in the Navy, and had a top secret security clearance, yet the government also has them on this stupid watch list. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if it's true. The whole thing is a crock of sh*t.

[DeathStalker]

Aerosoul, +1!

[Calanen]

I believe I am on the list as well. I have a caucasian name, look as white anglo saxon as it comes. But when I travel, they suddenly become rude and say 'No you stand right over there and Ill deal with you when im ready' and draw symbols all over my boarding pass. Whatever the symbols mean, it then scares the bejesus out of every next layer of security. I am always eventually let onboard, after a whole heap of questions, searches, and rudeness. There is also them almost hoping I will say something back to this rudeness so they can tase my ass. But I dont give them an excuse, I do what im told, ignore the bs, and *eventually* get on the plane.

I have theories on why I've been flagged. I think because when I lived in the states, I'd buy one way tickets at the last minute, stay for a while, buy another ticket back, change routes etc. I often paid with cash because no one would give me a goddamn credit card in the US (despite my six figure salary). In the intervening period, I've also represented some people that both the US and the Australian government, really, really dislike, so imagine its even worse now, and Im dreading returning to the states via airplane.

[ting]

I believe I am on the list as well. I have a caucasian name, look as white anglo saxon as it comes. But when I travel, they suddenly become rude and say 'No you stand right over there and Ill deal with you when im ready' and draw symbols all over my boarding pass. Whatever the symbols mean, it then scares the bejesus out of every next layer of security. I am always eventually let onboard, after a whole heap of questions, searches, and rudeness. There is also them almost hoping I will say something back to this rudeness so they can tase my ass. But I dont give them an excuse, I do what im told, ignore the bs, and *eventually* get on the plane.

I have theories on why I've been flagged. I think because when I lived in the states, I'd buy one way tickets at the last minute, stay for a while, buy another ticket back, change routes etc. I often paid with cash because no one would give me a goddamn credit card in the US (despite my six figure salary). In the intervening period, I've also represented some people that both the US and the Australian government, really, really dislike, so imagine its even worse now, and Im dreading returning to the states via airplane.

If your name is a common one, some criminal could have used it one time. If you are on the list for any of the reasons you mentioned, then I would say the terrorists have already won the war on terror.

I think the US operates with two lists. One is the feelgood pr list, wich has a million names on it, and any security guard has access to. It is basicly a list to give the population a feeling that they are on top of security, and perhaps once every ten years actualy find someone who might be a threat.

Then there is the real list with far fewer names, constantly updated and only accesible to the security services. Having the same name as someone on the list would not result in you knowing about it, since they would use other information to eliminate you as the listed individual.

[Calanen]

If your name is a common one, some criminal could have used it one time. If you are on the list for any of the reasons you mentioned, then I would say the terrorists have already won the war on terror.



My name could potentially be an IRA match with someone of the same name, it is reasonably common. But it seemed to only become a problem after 9/11.

[ting]

My name could potentially be an IRA match with someone of the same name, it is reasonably common. But it seemed to only become a problem after 9/11.

There you go then;-) The list was only created in the wake of the 9/11 panic. I doubt they did any assesment about the people they put on it, except that they were on some other list of potentially scary people, and not to include people who the security services deemed eyes only.