QUESTION: Close defence techniques?

[MetroN]

This is a question for all you guys out there with some sort of firearms training.

If you were standing up in the face with one guy, and you realized that you would have to defend yourself, cuz this guy acts dangerously or something, what would you do? And if you had a rifle (in some kind of quick use sling) and a pistol (in a leg holster), what kind of weapon would you use?

The reason for my question is that I saw some videos on Youtube, where one technique were used, with a pistol: Quick punch in the face, followed by two shots from the hip while backing up, again followed by three or four shots with an normal stance.

So I was curious if there were other methods or ways of doing it.

Thanks.

[digrar]

Buttstroke, then kick the **** out of him.

[Calanen]

http://www.youtube.com/v/Qi3s64sJ04M

[Alfacentori]

This is a question for all you guys out there with some sort of firearms training.

If you were standing up in the face with one guy, and you realized that you would have to defend yourself, cuz this guy acts dangerously or something, what would you do? And if you had a rifle (in some kind of quick use sling) and a pistol (in a leg holster), what kind of weapon would you use?

The reason for my question is that I saw some videos on Youtube, where one technique were used, with a pistol: Quick punch in the face, followed by two shots from the hip while backing up, again followed by three or four shots with an normal stance.

So I was curious if there were other methods or ways of doing it.

Thanks.

I was trained that if someone is in your face and you need space to act that a quick palm open hit to the nose/face causes instant eye water and disorientation, that gives you a second or 2 to backpedal and draw your sidearm.
As for shots depends on the effectivness of the fire like anything, in an anti armour drill you might do a double chest tap followed by a head and/or groin shot to incapacitate the target.
Edit: But the golden rule is do whatever is necessary to survive or get the advantage, bite, kick, whatever it takes.

Alfa

[Cedan]

you always act in accordance with your roe, and there's usually a long chain of increased escalation before you shoot someone, cocking your rifle or making sound with it works most of the time to scare people away (if you're on guard duty or something)

[Mastermind]

Okay...I have some poretty good expereince on this.

First, no matter what kind of training you have, a close up encounter is highly unpredictable.

Space...that is distance from the opponent is a first priority.

Such an encounter usually begins with an idiotic wrestling match...grabbing and shoving.

If you can not get away, for sure the sucker punch, open palm brought up directly under the jaw is an excellent move. Don't try for the nose...instinctive reflex by the opponent will likely casue a miss on such a small target. Put all your might behind it, slowly coil the impending blow and use verbal judo as much as possible...gab the guy off balance...try distracting him..get him to move his eyes or unfocus his concentration...like shout to an imaginary person behind him just before you strike (believe me, it works...it sounds dumb...but it works).

Do not stall if you think you will have to fight. Act decisively and quickly.

Body english is everything. If you can convince the guy you are 1) not a threat...will do all you can to avoid a fight...it will give him a false sense of security and will likely get him to linger in the moment...bad guys like to "feel the power"...but you are actually preparing the "A-Bomb" for him.

The blow is not to get you over him...never expect you can kick someone's ass...even small guys have a history you have no idea about. They might have a level of training you can't cope with. Get away after delivering the blow...even if it is not succesful as you would have liked....especially if you have a weapon....any kind of tangle puts increased possibility the bad guy can get your weapon and use it on you. This is why so many cops are killed with their own weapon...a major problem in police work.

If you get a chance to pull the weapon...USE IT! If you are not going to use it, don't pull it out of the holster. If you use it, use it to kill...not to scare...not to wound. five rounds dead center of mass...and more if necessary. Don't just shoot...aim and shoot. Don't spray..aim each and every round.

It is likely you will be affected by adrenaline. This will make you shake and act hasty...your sense of time is distorted. Deliberately try to make yourself slow down a bit. This takes practice...train and work out these kinds of scenarios as much as possible with a partner.

The best defense is to do all you can in actions to avoid this kind of situation. Keeping a cool head, maintaining your two second distance...the time it takes to get your side arm out and fire.

And...train, train, train.

[MetroN]

Thanks for the reply's. I haven't been in such a situation and I hope I never will be, I just got curious. Thanks.

[Hollis]

Buttstroke, then kick the **** out of him.


My thoughts too, but I don't know about the new rifles. M14 had a major club factor to it. Or side smack to the mouth. Even the old pistols have a whack factor to them.

What MM says. It is also not a good idea to have a person get too close.

[Beowulf]

I was googling "rock drill" or "speed rock" and found this page.

http://www.kuci.uci.edu/~dany/firearms/all_drills.html

Pretty good compilation.

[Mastermind]

I was googling "rock drill" or "speed rock" and found this page.

http://www.kuci.uci.edu/~dany/firearms/all_drills.html

Pretty good compilation.
Saved, laminated and put with my C-Rations! Thanks...a really good site.

[mudbunny]

I remember seeing a comedian talking about when confronted by a violent person he simply strips naked, because no one wants to fight/beat up/kill a naked person.

[Mastermind]

I remember seeing a comedian talking about when confronted by a violent person he simply strips naked, because no one wants to fight/beat up/kill a naked person.
Actually, that's not that far off. I once had to participate in taking down a convict who went bonkers in the shower....it turned into a Keystone Cops episode. None of us wanted to be the first to touch the guy. He had slicked himself up with soap to make it damn near impossible to get a hold on him. One of our more resourceful officers started snapping him with a wet towel and one of the strokes got him in a very tender place...right on the tip of it...and down the guy went. We covered him in a blanket and then got the cuffs on him...it was easy, both his hands were on his reddening member.

I remember we laughed over that event for a few years...

[Hollis]

I remember seeing a comedian talking about when confronted by a violent person he simply strips naked, because no one wants to fight/beat up/kill a naked person.



When I moved to Corvallis, OR in the late 70' there was a Police shooting. A distressed engineer was naked on the street. Not sure what all happened but he was fatally shot bu the police. I don't think I would use the naked defense strategy, getting shot my be least of what could happen. p-)

Now can we get back on topic?

[Mastermind]

Hahaha...might be good to do that at this time...conversation is kind of getting adrift.

[mudbunny]

Actually, that's not that far off. I once had to participate in taking down a convict who went bonkers in the shower....it turned into a Keystone Cops episode. None of us wanted to be the first to touch the guy. He had slicked himself up with soap to make it damn near impossible to get a hold on him. One of our more resourceful officers started snapping him with a wet towel and one of the strokes got him in a very tender place...right on the tip of it...and down the guy went. We covered him in a blanket and then got the cuffs on him...it was easy, both his hands were on his reddening member.

I remember we laughed over that event for a few years...

Yeah, I bet.
I think, when you're talking about survival, that there are no rules to the game. If a guy has you in a headlock from behind, the groin is a real easy place to get to with your hand.
I wrestled in high school and always found that the kind of strength that it gives you, can really serve you well in a grappling type of confrontation, but I've never had to confront an armed person right up in my face though so I can't speak to that.

[Mastermind]

My son is a self defense instructor (among other things) and has a very effective set of moves for close in combat...he says, if you know the right moves no one can defend against them. I told him then, "Yeah...but you train constantly." He says anyone can learn the right moves in no time...but using them in a real confrontation is almost impossible to train in a gym. He says the best self defense and self offense training is done working as a bouncer in bars. It puts you in many unpredictable situations with real uncooperative subjects...and you are allowed to slug the hell out of them if need be (just don't kill them or maim them....:-)). It teaches you self control in combative situations, and shows you your weaknesses. He likes working with drunks because they are so totally unpredicatble. He still works as a bouncer occassionally he says for the fun and to keep himself sharp.

[deagle]

do what solid snake does.......always worked.

[BiZ]

Buttstroke, then kick the **** out of him.

Not a fan of the Scottish Kiss? p-)

[digrar]

I have a pretty face. :)

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Hit him in the neck with your sharpened tooth brush and laugh at him as he lays there gurgling his life away.

After that it's on like donkey kong.

[BugHunt]

My son is a self defense instructor (among other things) and has a very effective set of moves for close in combat...he says, if you know the right moves no one can defend against them. I told him then, "Yeah...but you train constantly." He says anyone can learn the right moves in no time...but using them in a real confrontation is almost impossible to train in a gym. He says the best self defense and self offense training is done working as a bouncer in bars. It puts you in many unpredictable situations with real uncooperative subjects...and you are allowed to slug the hell out of them if need be (just don't kill them or maim them....:-)). It teaches you self control in combative situations, and shows you your weaknesses. He likes working with drunks because they are so totally unpredicatble. He still works as a bouncer occassionally he says for the fun and to keep himself sharp.


Not bad approach so long as you bear in mind that slapping 300 drunks ISNT the same number of real actual fights....

Though real life and adrenal experience like that always adds too and usually trumps spending 10 years punching air in a so so gym.

Id argue the very best teachers can pretty much give you better skillsets AND replicate very closely real life stress in a gym enviroment. But those guys sadly are often quite a trip away....

The best teachers usually have a small number of versitile extremely efficent moves - then work on prefecting them with countless hours of repetition.

The actual principles and moves can usually be taught in a matter of hours.

[Eoin666]

Not bad approach so long as you bear in mind that slapping 300 drunks ISNT the same number of real actual fights....

Though real life and adrenal experience like that always adds too and usually trumps spending 10 years punching air in a so so gym.

Id argue the very best teachers can pretty much give you better skillsets AND replicate very closely real life stress in a gym enviroment. But those guys sadly are often quite a trip away....

The best teachers usually have a small number of versitile extremely efficent moves - then work on prefecting them with countless hours of repetition.

The actual principles and moves can usually be taught in a matter of hours.

Military, police and even so called self-defence teachers are one thing, the real professionals I've seen are pyschiatric nurses. You think drunks are unpredicable try paranoid schizophrenics, although I've seen some nurses with pretty horrendous injuries from completely unpredicable attacks. Most psych nurses I know say that a Friday night in AE is nothing to what they go through every day. One thing our wing chun teacher always used to throw is was training against an opponent taking the role of a raging nutter rather than an someone using a stereotyped repertoire, which lets face it most martial arts are.

Mastermind......how can a bouncer beating people in a bar teach self control, sounds supiciously like abuse to me??

[California Joe]

I'm sure Laconian teaches various techniques for this to his newbie agents.

We were always taught to immediately put distance between us and the perp. Not having a rifle to simply buttstroke the asshole, :) and having to draw from a holster at the same time is something that takes a lot of practice. Open hand to the chin or even a straight up "forearm shiver" to the sternum while you back up will usually give you enough distance to allow you time to draw if need be.

[orionhawk]

My thoughts too, but I don't know about the new rifles. M14 had a major club factor to it. Or side smack to the mouth. Even the old pistols have a whack factor to them.

What MM says. It is also not a good idea to have a person get too close.
I wouldn't want to get smacked by an M4 stock, let alone an A3.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a kick in the junk. I've used it to good effect more than once, although it was not a deadly-threat situation.

[Jippo]

I wouldn't dare to buttstroke with a weapon that will be malfunctional if the butt gets bent. Luckily we don't have such weapons and are free to bash.

[kosse]

I've been to a little fight with some junkie once while being drunk myself too. I managed to crab his knife hand when he swinged it and and then just hit him between the eyes. That did it.

Anyway, I'd imagine that crabbing someone's hand who is sober and can use a knife will be impossible and is very risky in any case so I'm not looking to repeat that feat.

Having no special training I'll just go with bashing with any heavy object I can get if I'll ever get in a similar situation again and running is not an option. Being a civvie I have no motivation to train any other technique than chopping firewood :lol:

[kosse]

I wouldn't dare to buttstroke with a weapon that will be malfunctional if the butt gets bent. Luckily we don't have such weapons and are free to bash.

Well, I don't think there's much time to choose weapons if someone's already coming at you. But like you said, bashing with metallic butt RK is not a problem p-)

[Mastermind]

Military, police and even so called self-defence teachers are one thing, the real professionals I've seen are pyschiatric nurses. You think drunks are unpredicable try paranoid schizophrenics, although I've seen some nurses with pretty horrendous injuries from completely unpredicable attacks. Most psych nurses I know say that a Friday night in AE is nothing to what they go through every day. One thing our wing chun teacher always used to throw is was training against an opponent taking the role of a raging nutter rather than an someone using a stereotyped repertoire, which lets face it most martial arts are.

Mastermind......how can a bouncer beating people in a bar teach self control, sounds supiciously like abuse to me??
The idea is exposing yourself to repeated acts of confrontation in unpredictable circumstances. His actual hnds-on uses of force were rare. but, when necessary, he and the other guys he worked with were ready. Also, it is not all one sided...he came home many times with swollen jaw and black eye from the inevitable drunken sucker punch.

"Beating up drunks" anyone can do...but not everyone in a bar is drunk and not all sober people are nice.

This same thing is mentioned above about the psych wards...and even my experience working in a prison...repeated confrontation and occassional real physical contact teaches you well.

I found that when the hammer goes down, and the other guy actually comes in swinging...just about all training ...that is light and occassional training....goes right out the window. Most fights I have seen look like two left handed school girls wailing away at each other. The few I have seen handled by one really pro guy and the other a jackass...ended in one punch and the jackass down. Fight over.

By the way, one of the best guys I ever saw who cold hande any inmate regardless of size was a guy 40 years old who had grown up on the mean streets of Chicago. He was fat and never worked out. But, his single best advantage was, he always knew when to strike and when he struck it was like lightening out of the blue and hard...he was always right on target. The other guy would never get a chance.

[Sand Man]

The guy must be pretty good at anticipation and knowing when and who is about to swing at him.

I'm curious as to how a guy who grew up on the mean streets of Chicago would end up working in a prison.

[Hollis]

"Beating up drunks" anyone can do...but not everyone in a bar is drunk and not all sober people are nice.




A sober person who has is half way skilled can handle any drunk. Mag lights/batons would very effectively. Mistaking a sober bad guy for a drunk can have very bad results. I don't think one can not understate the importance of keeping a distance.


When I went through the LEO Training, the stat at the time, was the if a LEO was shot, the odds was it was from his own service revolver.
Capstun, did not work on everyone, especially idiots stoned on PCP. Taser where not around yet. Mag lights (5 - 7 cell) where use as a non-offensive defensive tool. Sadly they where eventually restricted by many agencies when a LEO killed a citizen by improperly Whacking one.

[Mastermind]

That's the trouble with just about any weapon involved in a close up encounter. I just watched a vid last night of a cop who tried to subdue a drug runner with peper spray. He wound up getting a dose of the pepper when he sprayed the perp...and was unable to see. It looked pretty scary. A couple of citizens stepped up and helped subdue the guy.

The trouble with these encounter is, they are so unpredictable and you can not possibly train for every contingency. Variable come into play...like what surface are you on, what kind of drug is the other guy on....will he/she feel any kind of pain? Pain infliction is a big part of managing to control comeone. If the guy will not even feel it of you break his arm, you really don't have anything but pure strenght to subdue him...and since the other guy is feeling no pain, he will be twice as strong as he usually is.

[LongShot]

This is a question for all you guys out there with some sort of firearms training.

If you were standing up in the face with one guy, and you realized that you would have to defend yourself, cuz this guy acts dangerously or something, what would you do? And if you had a rifle (in some kind of quick use sling) and a pistol (in a leg holster), what kind of weapon would you use?

The reason for my question is that I saw some videos on Youtube, where one technique were used, with a pistol: Quick punch in the face, followed by two shots from the hip while backing up, again followed by three or four shots with an normal stance.

So I was curious if there were other methods or ways of doing it.

Thanks.

Define dangerous......if the subject does not present a clear and present lethal threat then responding with lethal force is out of the question...Objective Resonableness (Tennessee V. Garner in regards to lethal force) applies in all situations such as this (at least in domestic US law).

Having said that, if the individual presents a lethal threat and is within close range, say, wielding a knife the options are limited, at least im my opinion, to expanding the distance to allow you to present a handgun or in committing to an attempted disarm strike(s).


Here is a video of some effective strikes against an armed threat..... (http://kolyan.net/index.php?newsid=5385)


The page is in Russian and loads somewhat slow but its worth the wait....

[MetroN]

Define dangerous......if the subject does not present a clear and present lethal threat then responding with lethal force is out of the question...Objective Resonableness (Tennessee V. Garner in regards to lethal force) applies in all situations such as this (at least in domestic US law).

Having said that, if the individual presents a lethal threat and is within close range, say, wielding a knife the options are limited, at least im my opinion, to expanding the distance to allow you to present a handgun or in committing to an attempted disarm strike(s).


Here is a video of some effective strikes against an armed threat..... (http://kolyan.net/index.php?newsid=5385)


The page is in Russian and loads somewhat slow but its worth the wait....

I (in this example) define dangerous as a man you know is carrying a knife or a gun. But I've never been in a fight...

[LongShot]

I (in this example) define dangerous as a man you know is carrying a knife or a gun. But I've never been in a fight...


I dont know if confronting a man armed with a firearm/knife is just a "fight" but I see where your question is coming from....There is more than enough quality advice in this thread to take comfort in, I hope I have also been helpful in some degree.

[Pete031]

Let me guess. This the youtube vid you saw?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmKR6evZRQQ

[LongShot]

Let me guess. This the youtube vid you saw?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmKR6evZRQQ

roflNice..........

[Laworkerbee]

Always wondered who trained him for that scene.

[LongShot]

Always wondered who trained him for that scene.



All I was able to find on the matter was....(click for the whole article)

Cruise is known for being an extremely focused and dedicated actor regardless of the project that he’s working on. He maintains a certain charm that is both inviting to cast and crew members. In further preparing for the role, Cruise underwent rigorous training under former members of the British Special Air Service, in order to have a better understanding of martial arts and weapons training. Furthermore, the training was intended to transform Cruise in to the makings of a consummate killer like Vincent. “I’ve fired weapons in pictures before, but I’d never had that kind of training,” (http://www.eurweb.com/story/eur15601.cfm)


Which goes with what I had heard about the subject from other folks, supposedly he was trained by former SAS Operator Michael "mick" Gould... hes got a Wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mick_Gould)

[Laworkerbee]

Thanks Longshot.

[MetroN]

Let me guess. This the youtube vid you saw?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmKR6evZRQQ


No, I've seen that scene before, but actually it was this one. 0:18 to be precise. Disregard the cheesy music and voice.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cAy-HyEFHC8&feature=related

But even though it looks so easy, I also realize that it's a huge difference between fighting practice targets and fighting real people.

[Pete031]

That dude at areound 2:56 is pretty slick.

[LongShot]

Thanks Longshot.

No problem sir.



No, I've seen that scene before, but actually it was this one. 0:18 to be precise. Disregard the cheesy music and voice.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cAy-HyEFHC8&feature=related

But even though it looks so easy, I also realize that it's a huge difference between fighting practice targets and fighting real people.

Your right about that....some techniques are staged in vid so that they look effective but in real life may not be so....I try to focus more on understanding human mechanics and physiology as opposed to learning techniques for when I need to go hands on, though its a never ending process.

[Mastermind]

No problem sir.




Your right about that....some techniques are staged in vid so that they look effective but in real life may not be so....I try to focus more on understanding human mechanics and physiology as opposed to learning techniques for when I need to go hands on, though its a never ending process.
Oh...very true!

In our Prison Guard training (Correctional Officer...excuse me.), the emphasis was constant on the wrist, arm bar, thumb hold to take an offensive or aggressive inmate down. I never once saw that hold being used at all...ever! I tried to apply it once and got totally clocked...The bad guy just would not place his feet right, and extend his arm properly and actually was moving wildly...Duh!

The best moves were what ever the situation called for..and plenty of it as fast as possible.

[LongShot]

Oh...very true!

In our Prison Guard training (Correctional Officer...excuse me.), the emphasis was constant on the wrist, arm bar, thumb hold to take an offensive or aggressive inmate down. I never once saw that hold being used at all...ever! I tried to apply it once and got totally clocked...The bad guy just would not place his feet right, and extend his arm properly and actually was moving wildly...Duh!

The best moves were what ever the situation called for..and plenty of it as fast as possible.

Technique specific teaching is why I quit taking Ju-Jitsu(the original, not Gracie derived)....shoulder throws and hip tosses irked my nerves to the point where I asked "why throw him?" Once you start asking a 30 year senior teacher questions like that, well....

[cagey veteran]

when in trouble or in doubt-sort the biggest bastard out!

[Moriarti]

From my personal experience - there are a couple of Maxims -

1) Stay withing your RUF/ROE and/or be able to articulate WHY you did what you did.
2) Be polite to everyone you meet - but have a plan to kill them
3) NEVER underestimate *anyone* - everyone could be a SF/Ninja guy who can whoop your ass.
4) Distance is your friend when being reactive
5) When you have to act - close with the threat and execute with violence of action - let your rage come out - but remember that once you adreniline dump - all you have is about 30 seconds of that spike.
6) For every technique you learn - there is ALWAYS a counter.
7) If he has a weapon - have a better weapon
8) If you feel in danger of death or great bodily harm kill the f*cker - don't hesitate.
9) Remember that you are ALWAYS on camera (ESPECIALLY when you think there is no way!) So VERBALIZE your commands - LOUDLY
10) It is better to tried by 12 than carried by 6

[Sand Man]

10) It is better to tried by 12 than carried by 6

So true ...

[rhodtpr]

Quote - The reason for my question is that I saw some videos on Youtube, where one technique were used, with a pistol: Quick punch in the face, followed by two shots from the hip while backing up, again followed by three or four shots with an normal stance.

That "quick punch in the face" move you saw at 0:18 is simply a means of distracting your opponent by flicking your hand into his eyes - hard and fast of course. The normal human reaction (I say normal - meaning he is not high on drugs-drunk-raging-etc.) when an object is directed towards your eyes is to flinch or duck.

That gives you time to put distance between you and your opponent while drawing and (assuming this is a legitimate lethal self-defence situation) shooting or killing the bad guy before he shoots or kills you.

Pretty simple eh!

The best thing you can do for your own self defense is to get yourself into the best fitness shape possible - then outrun the mofo. Most baddies don`t like the running game - its too much work.

Cheers!:bash:

[Jippo]

That "quick punch in the face" move you saw at 0:18 is simply a means of distracting your opponent by flicking your hand into his eyes - hard and fast of course.

At least in this part of the world pistol is a blunt instrument as well. If you are punching why not punch in a way that hurts as well.

[kosse]

At least in this part of the world pistol is a blunt instrument as well. If you are punching why not punch in a way that hurts as well.

Aye, with luck that one punch is all it takes for the lights to go out at the receiving end.

[LongShot]

Quote - The reason for my question is that I saw some videos on Youtube, where one technique were used, with a pistol: Quick punch in the face, followed by two shots from the hip while backing up, again followed by three or four shots with an normal stance.

That "quick punch in the face" move you saw at 0:18 is simply a means of distracting your opponent by flicking your hand into his eyes - hard and fast of course. The normal human reaction (I say normal - meaning he is not high on drugs-drunk-raging-etc.) when an object is directed towards your eyes is to flinch or duck.

That gives you time to put distance between you and your opponent while drawing and (assuming this is a legitimate lethal self-defence situation) shooting or killing the bad guy before he shoots or kills you.

Pretty simple eh!

The best thing you can do for your own self defense is to get yourself into the best fitness shape possible - then outrun the mofo. Most baddies don`t like the running game - its too much work.

Cheers!:bash:



If you are going to commit to a strike, you should also commit to a disarm-some people fail to remember that they have two hands in a confrontation. One hand delivers a strike to the face while the other gains, or attempts to gain control of the presented weapon. Just because a blow to the face might cause disorentation does not mean that the threat you hit in the face wont squeeze off a round in surprise (or on purpose) when you deliver your blow....if you are lucky and the threat is only armed with a knife think of this.......you throw a blow to the face, the threat reacts by fliching....as his hands shoot up to protect his face his knife is inadvertantly impailed in your arm...........

Attempting to learn technique will only help you for so long, as the threat is not alwys going to do A so you can react with B....tis much better to gain an understanding of human mechanics so that your options are fluid and your mind wont studder when searching for a technique to defeat a threat.....

There are far too many varibles that go into a violent encounter to only take advice from a video....personal education and experience will do you far more service than any "ninja self defense" DVD......

[rhodtpr]

Quote - "If you are going to commit to a strike, you should also commit to a disarm-some people fail to remember that they have two hands in a confrontation. One hand delivers a strike to the face while the other gains, or attempts to gain control of the presented weapon..."

While I am not an expert on the subject I can almost guarantee than any technique that uses one hand to disarm an opponent is doomed to failure. Weapon retention and disarming techniques taught to LEO's require the use of both hands to gain and wrest control of the weapon from the assailant - and a lot of luck and do or die attitude to boot!

I'll say it again - the 'punch' or 'push' or 'flick' or whatever at 0.18" is a legitimate technique taught at most competent firearm self-defense training schools that have a real-world training program. It is simply a distraction to gain time to move away from the opponent and to draw and fire your weapon. We are talking split seconds here and the old "when it comes to action-reaction the reactor always loses" rule.

Remember, fitness-fitness-fitness!woot

Cheers!

[LongShot]

Quote - "If you are going to commit to a strike, you should also commit to a disarm-some people fail to remember that they have two hands in a confrontation. One hand delivers a strike to the face while the other gains, or attempts to gain control of the presented weapon..."

While I am not an expert on the subject I can almost guarantee than any technique that uses one hand to disarm an opponent is doomed to failure. Weapon retention and disarming techniques taught to LEO's require the use of both hands to gain and wrest control of the weapon from the assailant - and a lot of luck and do or die attitude to boot!

I'll say it again - the 'punch' or 'push' or 'flick' or whatever at 0.18" is a legitimate technique taught at most competent firearm self-defense training schools that have a real-world training program. It is simply a distraction to gain time to move away from the opponent and to draw and fire your weapon. We are talking split seconds here and the old "when it comes to action-reaction the reactor always loses" rule.

Remember, fitness-fitness-fitness!woot

Cheers!



One hand to strike as a means of distraction while second hand gains purchase on weapon, at this point it would become a two handed disarm.....

[rhodtpr]

Quote - "5) When you have to act - close with the threat and execute with violence of action - let your rage come out - but remember that once you adreniline dump - all you have is about 30 seconds of that spike"

Correct - just watch how long to untrained fighters last when thrown into the ring. The average joe can't last 30 seconds in the ring let alone 3 minutes of continuous fighting for 3 rounds.

That's why I emphasize the 'fitness' aspect of training for this sort of encounter. By fitness I mean of course "fighting fit" as in the ability to do intense continuous work without tiring or running out of wind.

Cheers!:)

[rhodtpr]

One hand to strike as a means of distraction while second hand gains purchase on weapon, at this point it would become a two handed disarm.....

Agreed!:)

[LongShot]

Quote - "5) When you have to act - close with the threat and execute with violence of action - let your rage come out - but remember that once you adreniline dump - all you have is about 30 seconds of that spike"

Correct - just watch how long to untrained fighters last when thrown into the ring. The average joe can't last 30 seconds in the ring let alone 3 minutes of continuous fighting for 3 rounds.

That's why I emphasize the 'fitness' aspect of training for this sort of encounter. By fitness I mean of course "fighting fit" as in the ability to do intense continuous work without tiring or running out of wind.

Cheers!:)


No disagreements here sir....going hands on is always dangerous at best, made even more so with the presentation of a weapon (be it knife or gun). Training is tantamount to survival.