Iranian State TV Reports Hanging of 29

[Fade]

Iranian State TV Reports Hanging of 29
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) -- Iran hanged 29 people at dawn on Sunday after they had been convicted of murder, drug trafficking and other crimes, state run television reported.

All were hanged inside Evin prison, north of the capital. The hangings were carried out after the death sentences were ratified by Iran's Supreme Court, the television report said.

A separate report on the television station's web site quoted Tehran Chief Prosecutor Saeed Mortazavi as saying the men had records of repeated crimes, including rape, armed robbery and murder. The web site also said some of the convicts had ''smuggled thousands of kilograms of various kinds of narcotics'' in and out of Iran.

The hangings brought to about 150 the number of people executed in Iran so far this year.
Story continued.... (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Iran-Hanging.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin)

[randy10]

Story continued.... (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Iran-Hanging.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin)



Iranian rights activists said earlier this month that authorities have sentenced eight women and one man convicted of adultery to death by stoning.

And they want the world to believe their Nuclear Program is peaceful. They have to first become part of the civilized world.

[Lau]

Death penalty is IMO a barbaric punishment.

I'm sure a lot of people here disagree, but the risk of killing just one innocent person is not worth whatever good killing a criminal will do for society or the victims.

[Alexandr]

And they want the world to believe their Nuclear Program is peaceful. They have to first become part of the civilized world.

Ya,electric chair, chemical injections and gas cameras is much more civilized....

[tattooman]

Russian mate, Nobody in western world is condemned to death for adultery.

I believe in the death sentence for extreme cases, but the question is that, in Iran (and other countries) the fanatic integrists kill for his religious laws.

[signatory]

Hey if a democracy want death penalty then so be it.. it comes with courts, appeals and a way to protest and change the system. But if a fugging religious dictatorship like the crazy islamic republic of Iran is using it then that's a pretty big human rights violation right there.

[rwak9]

I was expecting 30...did one get a reprieve?

[tanks_alot]

I'm no expert on executions, but it seems that the purpose of using those cranes instead of the "traditional" trap door, is to get the victim to suffocate slowly instead of snaping his neck.

Graphic NSFW (http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hangingpa468x481un2.jpg)

[Iron_Fist_Stalin]

They have to first become part of the civilized world.
when they built worlds first biggest empire from india to greece you didnt even exist lol :bash:

[wigon]

Yeah but that Persian empire was a looooooooong time ago. Back then everyone did extremely horrific things to each other in the name of power, religion, land, etc...

Today America is the big empire economically/militarily speaking. What we do with that power is how history will judge us (if there is anyone left to tell that history).

Regarding Iran's executions. What would be more interesting is to read translated transcriptions (if they exist) of the court cases concerning executions for adultry. Their must be 4 witnesses to have actually witnessed the act. The chances of that are so insanely high that if a husband or wife were to come up with 4 witnesses, their credibility would have to be in serious doubt. The only other way is if the accused confesses. This CAN NOT be done under torture as there is absolutely nothing in the Qu'ran or Hadiths or in any scholar's rulings on this issue that says that such confessions can be coerced from the accused.
Sadly in places like Iran and Saudi Arabia, this is exactly what happens. Either that or the husband (who is usually the one who brings charges) just gets 4 buddies of his to testify against his wife, the courts do not question their testimony.

What is more interesting is that there is a verse in the Qu'ran that I can't find at the moment, but that says that a woman so accused can say 4 times that she is innocent and on the 5th time swear on penalty of hellfire in order to have her life spared. If anyone is interested I can look up that verse in the Qu'ran. This is hardly ever mentioned. I have leave in a bit for the rest of the day, but when I get home I'll try to look up that verse in the Qur'an.

In the Hadith's generally the Muslim prophet Mohammad was generally very reluctant to administer this most severe punishment. In addition lashes can be administred as a substitute according to some Madhhabs (schools of Islamic thought).
I don't agree with the whole death penalty thing at all except in the most brutal murders where the killer is clearly sane and knew exactly what he was doing (and confesses and is clearly a threat to other inmates).
However, the lashing thing....yeah if my wife cheated on me, I would be cool with having her publicly lashed. That I think is a bit more appropriate and just. But again, in Islamic law it was traditionally supposed to be extremely hard to find someone guilty of such an offense.

Wigon

[Arvin]

I don't know how some people can defeat repeat offenders such as rapist and murderers.

[randy10]

when they built worlds first biggest empire from india to greece you didnt even exist lol :bash:
And they have been stuck in Barbarian times ever since.

[signatory]

I don't know how some people can defeat repeat offenders such as rapist and murderers.

I don't know how anyone can defend a barbaric dictatorship.

[wigon]

Someone please read what I wrote above regading shariat law and adultry. What Iran is doing is wrong even in Islam. Period.

Wigon

[MichaelF]

Ya,electric chair, chemical injections and gas cameras is much more civilized....

Gas Cameras?

Wat?

[wicked_hind]

He meant the gas chamber.

[Arvin]

I don't know how anyone can defend a barbaric dictatorship.

I will not try and ask for a rapist to be pardened.Especially repeat offender.

[Kilgor]

A country that stones adulteries to death and possessing nuclear weapons ?

What age is this ?

[Persian Snipers]

And they have been stuck in Barbarian times ever since.



Please Stop Talking. Your embarrassing yourself.


There are crimes that people are sent to jail for, but in my book, rapists/child molesters have no reason to live. Most of them would do it again if they had a chance.

As for the hangings, the Iranian government has realized that Iranians have been starting to go against the government, and be attached to their history.

These hangings are just to scare the people, nothing more.

[randy10]

Please Stop Talking. Your embarrassing yourself.


There are crimes that people are sent to jail for, but in my book, rapists/child molesters have no reason to live. Most of them would do it again if they had a chance.

As for the hangings, the Iranian government has realized that Iranians have been starting to go against the government, and be attached to their history.

These hangings are just to scare the people, nothing more.

You might wanna read in what context I made that remark.
I was talking about "Death by Stoning". So that is acceptable punishment in your view???

[Kilgor]

http://www.youtube.com/v/Erthun0Pauc

[sreto]

Im against the death penalty in any shape or form, but since it isnt happening in my backyard it doesnt really bother me. Why does it matter to you if an adultress is stoned to death, she broke their laws and she got the punishment for breaking the law. Those are the laws they live under and those are the laws that follow, it doesnt show that Iran is backwards, it just shows they have different values and a different social norms compared to other countries. Anyways As far as I am aware stoning of adultresses isnt that common and promenant, but somebody can probably correct me on that.

[The_Android]

Im against the death penalty in any shape or form, but since it isnt happening in my backyard it doesnt really bother me. Why does it matter to you if an adultress is stoned to death, she broke their laws and she got the punishment for breaking the law. Those are the laws they live under and those are the laws that follow, it doesnt show that Iran is backwards, it just shows they have different values and a different social norms compared to other countries.

I don't see why I have to accept something only because it doesn't happen in my country. If I think something's wrong then it's wrong regardless of where it happens. Laws are not some moral authority for me who dictate what is acceptable and not. Only because Iranian laws says something it doesn't mean I have to accept it. And frankly, I don't. Many laws in Iran are like straight from the middle ages.

[Erik Sleivöks]

Please Stop Talking. Your embarrassing yourself.


There are crimes that people are sent to jail for, but in my book, rapists/child molesters have no reason to live. Most of them would do it again if they had a chance.

As for the hangings, the Iranian government has realized that Iranians have been starting to go against the government, and be attached to their history.

These hangings are just to scare the people, nothing more.

You are completely right, and I could not agree more.

If I can add that the big "danger" is that folks are hanged after very a very short court case, and once they are dead... well... there is no way back.

Personally I have no problem with the murders and rapist, but all these "swift" cases for drugs, or Islamic problems are a bit worrying.

[VPR]

nothing wrong with the death penalty in my opinion, if its a repeat offender then why not?

but a shot to the head would be more humane

[wigon]

Im against the death penalty in any shape or form, but since it isnt happening in my backyard it doesnt really bother me. Why does it matter to you if an adultress is stoned to death, she broke their laws and she got the punishment for breaking the law. Those are the laws they live under and those are the laws that follow, it doesnt show that Iran is backwards, it just shows they have different values and a different social norms compared to other countries. Anyways As far as I am aware stoning of adultresses isnt that common and promenant, but somebody can probably correct me on that.


I don't think anyone read anything I typed about Shariat Law on the previous pages. There are serious problems with how they are applying it.

Wigon

[SBL]

I think this is being blown a little out of proportion.
Honestly, I wish we'd hang our murderers and drug traffickers.

[wigon]

I think this is being blown a little out of proportion.
Honestly, I wish we'd hang our murderers and drug traffickers.


How about bring back gladiators? That way they could entertain us with their deaths! Of coarse they also would throw Christians to the lions back then as well.

Wigon

[SBL]

How about bring back gladiators? That way they could entertain us with their deaths! Of coarse they also would throw Christians to the lions back then as well.

Wigon

Sorry. I didn't realize I said it should be done for our amusement.

[wigon]

Sorry. I didn't realize I said it should be done for our amusement.


You didn't, I did.
We Americans love violence for entertainment. So why not the ultimate entertainment of watching people hack each other to death? We love watching it in the movies so why not for real? Why do you think the UFC and MMA stuff is becoming so popular? It's BLOODY and Americans love blood!

Wigon

[SBL]

You didn't, I did.
We Americans love violence for entertainment. So why not the ultimate entertainment of watching people hack each other to death? We love watching it in the movies so why not for real? Why do you think the UFC and MMA stuff is becoming so popular? It's BLOODY and Americans love blood!

Wigon

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

[wigon]

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?


We're talking about the evil Iranians hanging poor innocent people.
You said hanging is good.
And then I said gladiators would be even better since they're gonna die anyways. Hey, they have a chance to win a life sentence if they live!
Sounds fair don't it? Let God decide whether to spare their life!

Wigon

[SBL]

I said I wasn't concerned with how the Iranians are meting out justice in this particular instance, and that I would approve of similar methods if they were applied to convicted murderers and drug traffickers here in the US.
The notion that criminals should be utilized for our entertainment is extraneous,absurd, and immoral.

[wigon]

I said I wasn't concerned with how the Iranians are meting out justice in this particular instance, and that I would approve of similar methods if they were applied to convicted murderers and drug traffickers here in the US.
The notion that criminals should be utilized for our entertainment is extraneous,absurd, and immoral.


But executing people in an imperfect legal system (that has executed innocent people) is ok? That sounds kinda immoral to me as well.

Wigon

[SBL]

But executing people in an imperfect legal system (that has executed innocent people) is ok? That sounds kinda immoral to me as well.

Wigon
No such thing as a perfect legal system. If the people were who the Iranians said they were, then I have no issues with it.

[wigon]

No such thing as a perfect legal system. If the people were who the Iranians said they were, then I have no issues with it.


Bingo! And because there is no such thing as a perfect legal system, executions should only be used when there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever of a person's guilt of a horrific crime such as in the case where they freely confess AND do not suffer from serious mental illness in which they have no idea what they are doing. There is such a thing as giving a person a chance to repent for what they did and make something of themselves behind bars doing such things as running animal shelters in the prisons that teach them compassion and basic veterinary skills. But sadly today that's called "criminal cuddling" and we seem to want to treat our prisoners as brutally as possible. This only turns them into animals so as to commit even more horrific crimes when they get out. Over and over and over studies done on criminals showing the same thing. Brutal treatment just makes even more hardcore criminals. If our death penalty deterred crime, we would be the safest nation on Earth.

Wigon

[Sanat-e-naft]

Russian mate, Nobody in western world is condemned to death for adultery.


Yea, and in the west our divorce rates are +50%. Maybe we should think about stoning people, or something.

[wigon]

Yea, and in the west our divorce rates are +50%. Maybe we should think about stoning people, or something.


Umm... No. One of the primary reasons for divorce is simple money problems (one spouse is blowing all the money and racking up debt) as well as domestic abuse. If anything the old laws against usury (excessive interest being charged by predatory lenders) should be implemented. We had them in our law books here in America, but slowly those laws have been removed or not enforced... hence our current mortgage/banking crisis caused by pure greed and criminal fraud. But that's for a whole other political rant thread.
Suffice to say, that stoning people to death for adultry waaay too harsh. Some madhhabs permit lashing (being whipped) as a substitute. Regadless the evidence needed to find someone guilty is insanely difficult to meet unless the person freely confesses without coercion. The fact that so many people are executed for adultry in Iran (and 90% being women) means that they have a screwed up way of carrying out shariat law. As a man, seriously would you believe that women are more likely to commit adultry?



Wigon

[Jµµso]

This should be good machine to execute criminals.
http://www.youtube.com/v/aADio2uStTY

But i dont see difrence between death penalty in Iran and USA. That injection what USA uses can be very painful too... how it's difrent from stoning?

[Sanat-e-naft]

As a man, seriously would you believe that women are more likely to commit adultry?



Wigon

I would not think they are more at risk, but a more severe punnishment would be in order for all adulterors in the US. Not stoning, how about making the cheater pay the other party's legal fees?

[wigon]

I would not think they are more at risk, but a more severe punnishment would be in order for all adulterors in the US. Not stoning, how about making the cheater pay the other party's legal fees?


Maybe at higher risk being taken advantage of by other men. Seriously, you know how men are. Middle Eastern men especially are extremely charming and good at getting women usually. Women in my experience are idiots when it comes to men and are easily taken advantage of. However I think it is funny that in Middle Eastern cultures, women are the ones blamed for making the men go crazy with ****** desire.

As for paying the other party's legal fees, yes this already happens in America. That is usually part of the divorce settlement and usually the woman gets the most out of the settlement because she usually takes care of the children (if they have children).
I however think that the shariat punishment of public lashings (whippings) is a good idea for adulterers and for many other crimes. That would save alot of prison space and be much cheaper then sending criminals to prison.



Wigon

[SBL]

Bingo! And because there is no such thing as a perfect legal system, executions should only be used when there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever of a person's guilt of a horrific crime such as in the case where they freely confess AND do not suffer from serious mental illness in which they have no idea what they are doing. There is such a thing as giving a person a chance to repent for what they did and make something of themselves behind bars doing such things as running animal shelters in the prisons that teach them compassion and basic veterinary skills. But sadly today that's called "criminal cuddling" and we seem to want to treat our prisoners as brutally as possible. This only turns them into animals so as to commit even more horrific crimes when they get out. Over and over and over studies done on criminals showing the same thing. Brutal treatment just makes even more hardcore criminals. If our death penalty deterred crime, we would be the safest nation on Earth.

Wigon


I vigorously disagree. The basis of my disagreement being a fundamental difference of opinion regarding human nature.
If an inmate wishes to better his plight, there are, to my knowledge, education programs and so forth designed to help them do so. We do not make a policy of wantonly torturing our prisoners, they receive medical care, three squares a day, exercise time, etc. So, in theory, if most criminals were people who had just gotten a few bad breaks, prison should at the very least be a tolerable experience.
I think it's pretty clear, however, that inmates perpetuate generally their antisocial behavior on the inside, making prisons the horrible places that they are. I think that there is probably room for improvement as far as the penal system is concerned, but ultimately I think it can only be so good as long as you're going to be housing criminals.

[Sanat-e-naft]

As for paying the other party's legal fees, yes this already happens in America. That is usually part of the divorce settlement and usually the woman gets the most out of the settlement because she usually takes care of the children (if they have children).

Wigon

Divorce law in the US is a sh!t show. I am aware that legal fees are usually awarded so that the woman gets more, when she needs the fees. But what drives me nuts is when a guy busts his a$$ for years, while she is at home (make all the homemaker arguments u want, it aint the same) and then she cheats, and he (since he made all the money) ends up paying her lawyers fees, while she is nailing another guy.

As for stonings, not cool. Maybe lashings would be in order then?

[Mastermind]

when they built worlds first biggest empire from india to greece you didnt even exist lol :bash:
Oh, what horse feathers. "They" were a whole different set of minds...Islam was not what it is today...not by a long shot. It may have been Perisans or various persons living under Islamic states at the time were enlightened and so on. But, what ever became of that enlightenment died more than a thousand years ago as the religous nuts took over and drove Islam into the sand.

[wigon]

Divorce law in the US is a sh!t show. I am aware that legal fees are usually awarded so that the woman gets more, when she needs the fees. But what drives me nuts is when a guy busts his a$$ for years, while she is at home (make all the homemaker arguments u want, it aint the same) and then she cheats, and he (since he made all the money) ends up paying her lawyers fees, while she is nailing another guy.

As for stonings, not cool. Maybe lashings would be in order then?


The reason for this is because historically, the woman did not work and did not have an education. Because of this, a woman who spent her life raising children (when she wasn't sleeping with another man) would be left homeless and jobless after a divorce. This still happens sometimes when the man has a good lawyer and when it is the woman who cheated however this usually is when there are no children involved in the marriage. Cheating happens all the time in America with boyfriends/girlfriends. Its glorified on TV and movies. And then we are suprised when it happens in marriage. The root problem is not harsher punishment. It is a fundamental change in American culture towards cheating in a relationship. But again, often the issue causing a divorce is not cheating, but rather financial problems or domestic abuse (where the woman is being beaten severely by the husband).

Wigon

[wigon]

I vigorously disagree. The basis of my disagreement being a fundamental difference of opinion regarding human nature.
If an inmate wishes to better his plight, there are, to my knowledge, education programs and so forth designed to help them do so. We do not make a policy of wantonly torturing our prisoners, they receive medical care, three squares a day, exercise time, etc. So, in theory, if most criminals were people who had just gotten a few bad breaks, prison should at the very least be a tolerable experience.
I think it's pretty clear, however, that inmates perpetuate generally their antisocial behavior on the inside, making prisons the horrible places that they are. I think that there is probably room for improvement as far as the penal system is concerned, but ultimately I think it can only be so good as long as you're going to be housing criminals.

Some prisons do have reform programs and education programs. But it is not all equal and such programs have limited capacity and so all prisoners do not always have access to such programs due to a lack of funding.
Many US prisons actually have been found to torture prisoners by Amnesty International (you can read their reports on their website) and by our own courts in cases where abuse was made public.
But you are right, prisoners control the prison but taxpayers don't want to pay for hiring more guards and making better prison designs. Nor do they want to pay for more prisoner reform programs.

Wigon

[SBL]

Some prisons do have reform programs and education programs. But it is not all equal and such programs have limited capacity and so all prisoners do not always have access to such programs due to a lack of funding.
Many US prisons actually have been found to torture prisoners by Amnesty International (you can read their reports on their website) and by our own courts in cases where abuse was made public.
But you are right, prisoners control the prison but taxpayers don't want to pay for hiring more guards and making better prison designs. Nor do they want to pay for more prisoner reform programs.

Wigon

Amnesty International. :roll:
Again, it is not a policy that we torture our prisoners. If we're having court cases about such incidents it means we're investigating and hopefully prosecuting responsible parties. That's all that can be hoped for.
Again, if prison issues are largely the result of the inmates own behavior, why should the taxpayer- those that choose to follow the law- be expected to pay any more than the minimum for the benefit of those that actively generate problems?

[wigon]

Amnesty International. :roll:
Again, it is not a policy that we torture our prisoners. If we're having court cases about such incidents it means we're investigating and hopefully prosecuting responsible parties. That's all that can be hoped for.
Again, if prison issues are largely the result of the inmates own behavior, why should the taxpayer- those that choose to follow the law- be expected to pay any more than the minimum for the benefit of those that actively generate problems?


And thus we wash our hands of these ingrates and tell ourselves that we had absolutely nothing to do with their choices as a society. And so the cycle of criminality--> prison---> back to the streets--->crime--->prison---etc... continues.
Maybe we should execute all of them? Then we wouldn't have to worry about them at all.
The fact of the matter is that we can stop that cycle and yes it costs money. There are a ton of successful programs with known track records that can be done in our communities and schools before people get to prison in addition to known successful programs that can be expanded in our prisons. But it takes LOTS of money. The whole Iraq war would have paid for all of that. But no we don't have the money... but when it comes to war...hey we find that money from somewhere.
It pisses me off that we're so busy trying to "spread freedom" rathern then worrying about trying to improve our own country (with the exception of corporate welfare).

Wigon

[SBL]

And thus we wash our hands of these ingrates and tell ourselves that we had absolutely nothing to do with their choices as a society. And so the cycle of criminality--> prison---> back to the streets--->crime--->prison---etc... continues.
Maybe we should execute all of them? Then we wouldn't have to worry about them at all.
The fact of the matter is that we can stop that cycle and yes it costs money. There are a ton of successful programs with known track records that can be done in our communities and schools before people get to prison in addition to known successful programs that can be expanded in our prisons. But it takes LOTS of money. The whole Iraq war would have paid for all of that. But no we don't have the money... but when it comes to war...hey we find that money from somewhere.

Wigon
Crime is and will continue to be a cyclical problem- there is always a segment of people unwilling to follow the rules.
I have no problem with investing more into education and rehab programs if they're properly utilized by the population they are intended for. But I say it's better still to invest in education and youth programs to try and give kids a better chance at a proper start.
All that aside, I support using the death penalty. Human nature dictates its necessity.

[Erik Sleivöks]

Well… the simple reality remains the same…

In Iran people get executed for adultery by stoning, but in the US they don’t.

In the US you are 99.9% sure of getting a fair trial, but in Iran it depends on how much you can pay the judge.

In Iran political opponents just disappear, but in the US they don’t.

[wigon]

Crime is and will continue to be a cyclical problem- there is always a segment of people unwilling to follow the rules.
I have no problem with investing more into education and rehab programs if they're properly utilized by the population they are intended for. But I say it's better still to invest in education and youth programs to try and give kids a better chance at a proper start.
All that aside, I support using the death penalty.

I agree the money is best spent on education and youth programs. But also I don't believe in tossing the key and saying "to hell with the prisoners."
As for the death penalty, it doesn't bother you that innocent people may be executed just because the accused couldn't afford a good lawyer?

Wigon

[wigon]

Well… the simple reality remains the same…

In Iran people get executed for adultery by stoning, but in the US they don’t.

In the US you are 99.9% sure of getting a fair trial, but in Iran it depends on how much you can pay the judge.

In Iran political opponents just disappear, but in the US they don’t.


And 99.9% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
A "Fair trial" in theory until you've had the misfortune of ending up on the business end of the federal or state criminal court system and could not afford a lawyer. Court appointed lawyers are a joke. Is it better then Iran however? ABSOLUTELY!!!
In that regard I totally agree with you that there is no comparison. Iran has a totally messed up legal system that makes ours look incrediblely fair by comparison. So yeah no arguement there.

Wigon

[SBL]

I agree the money is best spent on education and youth programs. But also I don't believe in tossing the key and saying "to hell with the prisoners."
As for the death penalty, it doesn't bother you that innocent people may be executed just because the accused couldn't afford a good lawyer?

Wigon
Everyone has their day in court. If there are innocent people being convicted that often, it demands that the courts/cases come under scrutiny. It does not demand an end to the death penalty, in my opinion.

[wigon]

Hence why many states have abolished the death penalty.

[Sanat-e-naft]

I for one prefer a system where I can buy a judgment. Much more reliable. Damn jurors and their opinions.

[wigon]

I for one prefer a system where I can buy a judgment. Much more reliable. Damn jurors and their opinions.

I hope you're being sarcastic. lol

Wigon

[SBL]

Hence why many states have abolished the death penalty.
I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

[wigon]

Yeah probably so. lol. This is issue like the abortion issue. Its very difficult to change anyone's opinion on it.
But back to Iran... regardless of whether anyone agrees or disagrees whether the death penalty is right, I think most can agree that they have a screwed up system.
Even by shariat standards its a horrific misapplication of shariat law. By Western standards (to include European standards) its just extremely brutal and primitive.


Wigon

[Mastermind]

By any standard it's primitive, brutal, unjust. We are humanbeings. This is not the behavior of humanbeings. It is monstrous to the extreme.

[wigon]

By any standard it's primitive, brutal, unjust. We are humanbeings. This is not the behavior of humanbeings. It is monstrous to the extreme.


But it's just like the ol' West in American history! Many of us Americans look back in U.S. history with a sense of nostaliga to a time when men were men and women knew their place. The same goes for many Muslims when they see corruption in their governments, high divorce rates in Western countries, excessive ******ity everywhere on TV... and believe that only God's divine law and holy warriors/leaders will lay the law down and make things right. That is why it is ironic to me that Christian fundamentalists and Muslim fundamentalists often want the same thing. They want a moral society ruled under one God. They just have differences of opinion on exactly who this God is and what his exact laws were.

In reality... its a myth. The Islamic world was in a constant state of warfare right from the beginning and were fighting amongst each other shortly after their prophet died. Only during a few periods now and then in Islamic history did they have sustained peace and enlightenment (in the arts, sciences, laws, etc...). The same goes for US history. The 1950's is seen as this mythical period in American history of great prosperity and peace...when in fact for many it was far from that. Yet it remains a modern myth that many Americans believe in and want to return to. For certain it was a more innocent time. Hell, the 1980's were more innocent compared to now. lol!

Wigon

[SBL]

By any standard it's primitive, brutal, unjust. We are humanbeings. This is not the behavior of humanbeings. It is monstrous to the extreme.
Maybe I missed something. Hanging criminals is brutal to be sure, but monstrous?:|

[Arvin]

Should send a clear message to any more Africans,Arabs and Pakistani's that wish to bring drugs and crime into Iran.

http://media.farsnews.com/Media/8605/ImageReports/8605270377/15_8605270377_L600.jpg

http://media.farsnews.com/Media/8605/ImageReports/8605270377/14_8605270377_L600.jpg

http://media.farsnews.com/Media/8605/ImageReports/8605270377/17_8605270377_L600.jpg

http://media.farsnews.com/Media/8605/ImageReports/8605270377/6_8605270377_L600.jpg

[Mastermind]

But it's just like the ol' West in American history! Many of us Americans look back in U.S. history with a sense of nostaliga to a time when men were men and women knew their place. The same goes for many Muslims when they see corruption in their governments, high divorce rates in Western countries, excessive ******ity everywhere on TV... and believe that only God's divine law and holy warriors/leaders will lay the law down and make things right. That is why it is ironic to me that Christian fundamentalists and Muslim fundamentalists often want the same thing. They want a moral society ruled under one God. They just have differences of opinion on exactly who this God is and what his exact laws were.

In reality... its a myth. The Islamic world was in a constant state of warfare right from the beginning and were fighting amongst each other shortly after their prophet died. Only during a few periods now and then in Islamic history did they have sustained peace and enlightenment (in the arts, sciences, laws, etc...). The same goes for US history. The 1950's is seen as this mythical period in American history of great prosperity and peace...when in fact for many it was far from that. Yet it remains a modern myth that many Americans believe in and want to return to.

Wigon
Of course...and the Christians have been killing each other, too...look at all our wars over the centuries that had nothing to do with religion.

As for the "Good old days"...right now are the good old days. No one time is better or worse in every regard. In the '50's I saw some of the most shameful aspects of life and I see the same type of thing every day right now. We have hardly changed one whit.

Individually, we are Human beings...together, we are human and sometimes, to be human is to behave crass and cruel. Our job...every person's job, is to try to improve our lot on this earth. How well we do that as humans will dictate what our "Good old days" will be like tomorrow.

In my opinion, we are not performing very well, lately.

[wigon]

Should send a clear message to any more Africans,Arabs and Pakistani's that wish to bring drugs and crime into Iran.










All I see is a bunch of Africans. That reminds me of the executions I witnessed in Saudi Arabia.... all foreigners...mainly Sudanese and Phillipinos.

Wigon

[Mastermind]

Maybe I missed something. Hanging criminals is brutal to be sure, but monstrous?:|

Hanging anyone for anything is monstrous. My God, how can it be anything else?

[wigon]

Of course...and the Christians have been killing each other, too...look at all our wars over the centuries that had nothing to do with religion.

As for the "Good old days"...right now are the good old days. No one time is better or worse in every regard. In the '50's I saw some of the most shameful aspects of life and I see the same type of thing every day right now. We have hardly changed one whit.

Individually, we are Human beings...together, we are human and sometimes, to be human is to behave crass and cruel. Our job...every person's job, is to try to improve our lot on this earth. How well we do that as humans will dictate what our "Good old days" will be like tomorrow.

In my opinion, we are not performing very well, lately.


I agree completely.

Wigon

[wigon]

Hanging anyone for anything is monstrous. My God, how can it be anything else?

Back in the ol' days people used to come gather for the public hangings as a form of entertainment. Hey don't judge... you weren't alive back then!
lol!

j/k...

Actually the hanging of Saddam Hussein was pretty damn horrific. What kinda pissed me off is that the US Army guards who got to know him actually really liked him and saw him as a grandpa kinda figure who even had a little garden of weeds that he tended to. I think even "monsters" like Saddam have goodness in them.

Wigon

[SBL]

Hanging anyone for anything is monstrous. My God, how can it be anything else?
Well again, I don't really agree with that statement. I will say your opinion gives me pause, however, given your experience.

-edit-
I think I may be confusing the method of hanging with the DP as a whole.

[Mastermind]

I appreciate the respect, SBL. But, let me explain one step further;

I am not an anti-death penalty person. I have to conflict myself. I realistically know there are some creatures on this rock who fully deserve to be removed permanently. We have no other way to do that than to kill them.

In the Prison system, I had many conversations with convicted felons, some who certainly fit the mold of those to be removed. I put the question to them. "Should we stop the death penalty?" Ans;, "Hell no! Not with the present system."

"But what system could replace it?"

"A mega-Prison. A prison from which there is no return...not ever. A prison where the living go in and start a life of death. Every cell would have a permanent noose with a small stool under it, all designed perfectly for the inmate. The guy is fed, the guy is sheltered, his every physical need taken care of and the guy is never to see another human being. The prison is so designed that when he/she is moved from place to place, he is either unconcious or led by remotely opened doors. If he decided to be uncoperative...let him be...if he decides to smear his cell with s4it...let him live in it until he decides to clean it. If he goes insane, too bad. He stays put until he dies."

My response to this was shock...from convicted felons, this kind of living hell would be conceived. And then I came to realize the beauty of such a system...No death penalty...just living hell until death by suicide or natural causes.

Another guy recommened a simpler solution...blind them...take out their eyes...and then release them. Blind men are helpless. Let them beg. Let them struggle to make every little thing in life happen.

Cruel? perhaps. But, living on death row for 22 years is humane?

I don't know the solutions. I do know, that to kill anyone by murder is horriffic for any reason. And taking a guy out of a cell, handcuffing him, strapping him down to a surgical table and deliberately injecting a deadly massive dose of salt water into his veins is murder. We dcall it a exercising a death penalty. But, no matter what you call it...no matter how you guage it...no matter how just it is....it is cold blooded murder.