New Irish Army combat kit.

[apod]

Hey folks.Thought some of ye might like to see the new personal protection and load carrying system we in the Irish defence forces are currently being issued with.Its called IPLCS (integrated protection and load carrying system) and replaces our old olive green 90ptn PLCE web gear.Glad to say that the various components are made by some fairly good manufacturers.E.G;
Load carrying kit (battlevest,patrolpack,bergan and liners):Lowe alpine.
Helmet:Rabintex RBH 303-IE.(sorry no picture at the moment:oops:)
Combat bodyarmour:LBA international.
Eyepro: ESS profile nvg.
Hydration: Camelbak omega 2.1 ltr reservoir (2 issued per soldier) plus 3 ltr CBRN reservoir.
Protective pads: Hatch centurions.
All in all they finally spent some money and got us some decent kit.woot
Heres a few pics.

[Rhodius3D]

Hey folks.Thought some of ye might like to see the new personal protection and load carrying system we in the Irish defence forces are currently being issued with.Its called IPLCS (integrated protection and load carrying system) and replaces our old olive green 90ptn PLCE web gear.Glad to say that the various components are made by some fairly good manufacturers.E.G;
Load carrying kit (battlevest,patrolpack,bergan and liners):Lowe alpine.
Helmet:Rabintex RBH 303-IE.(sorry no picture at the moment:oops:)
Combat bodyarmour:LBA international.
Eyepro: ESS profile nvg.
Hydration: Camelbak omega 2.1 ltr reservoir (2 issued per soldier) plus 3 ltr CBRN reservoir.
Protective pads: Hatch centurions.
All in all they finally spent some money and got us some decent kit.woot
Heres a few pics.


Great Pic and as it is Lowe alpine it should be good!!
Just make sure no nob end robs it on you at camp.
I dont know how many times some one did that on me.

[RAFREGT.]

nice kit...not succumbed to the "digital age" yet i see....thank god!

[StuRat]

Nice looking stuff, thanks for the pics

[Poccington The 3rd]

You got issued a second camelbak?

[Mike Keenan]

apod, I assume you are in the PDF?

[Poccington The 3rd]

Nah, that's the new issue for Reserves :-P

[Far]

I'd like to see it all together...you should put it on for us.

[MaK]

Very nice gear!

Any chance to get pictures about new Helicopter crew vest, which Irish DF got also? It's like that battlevest, but with different pockets.

[apod]

You got issued a second camelbak?
Yeah.Got the first one when we got issued the Bergan.Got the second one and the CBRN adaptor plus cleaning kit with the battlevest.


apod, I assume you are in the PDF?
Yup.:)


Nah, that's the new issue for Reserves :-P
You wish:) Integrated rdf are scaled for it though.


I'd like to see it all together...you should put it on for us.
You mean fit all the pouchs or model it?


Very nice gear!

Any chance to get pictures about new Helicopter crew vest, which Irish DF got also? It's like that battlevest, but with different pockets.
Thanks.Afaik the crewmans vest isnt in service yet.The new medics vest is in but i have yet to see it.

[Poccington The 3rd]

Yeah.Got the first one when we got issued the Bergan.Got the second one and the CBRN adaptor plus cleaning kit with the battlevest.


I got the cleaning kit and CBRN Adaptor as well, no sign of a second camelbak for me though :-(

And I pray to God it's a while yet before my CBRN Adapter has to be used p-)

[apod]

Get on to your stores staff.It IS part of the IPLCS issue.You ARE entitled to it!

[M1A2U2]

Nice stuff, any way to buy this stuff?

[apod]

No.It is illegal under irish law to sell or purchase Irish defence forces property.All items are serial numbered to aid in tracing any items that could go "missing".
Heres a few more pics.:)

[Catch22]

To be honest - someone played cheap with that body armor. While rest of the stuff is more or less decent (whatever be the idea with Lowe Alpine replicating Arktis designs) - the flak looks very crude in design and cut/ergonomics by today's standards - it resembles early 90's protective vests. Being involved in the industry for several years now I'm quite surprised with that - surely the Irish could afford much more modern, ergonomic, user friendly and better-protecting (better coverage) integrated vests. I'm aware that LBA is a reputable company, but this design is beyond old-school these days.

[apod]

Lowe alpine didnt design the battlevest.A project team from the army did.Afaik the looked at some of the features available on a range of various battlevests on the market ,particularly the protac made ARW vest,and incorporated them into their own design.The only similarites i can see to arktis vests are the mag pouch lids and the hydration bladder pouch.But a few companies have those featues on thier vests.

As for the body armour.The new flacker was touted to us as lighter and providing better coverage and protection than the model in service since 1983.It is in fact heavier:roll: and more cumbersome.However the ballistic plates are SAPI's so no complaints there.The project team looked for a model that could be worn underneath our issue smock and was an over the head donning type.No pouches were requested on it so as not to intefere with the closure of the battlevest over it when worn without the smock in warm weather.Personally i think we missed an oppurtunity to say have PALS type webbing strips on the body armour aswell.Than we could wear the armour without the battlevest in certain situations.Driving would be an example.

With your experience in the business what would you have gone for?

[Catch22]

Well, I won't quoute from memory but there was some issues between Arktis and Protac regarding their tactical vest designs, that explains why this vest in its general panel layout and details is similiar. Not that I'd care too much if Lowe copies some rather old designs or not. The bladder in the vest is uninsulated I guess, just mesh?

I feel like saying that even the best ballistics put into a un-ergonomical cover would in effect reduce the combat capabilites of the user, causing discomfort, weariness, heat build-up, lack of manouverability and so on.

Answering your question on the ballistic vest - I'd stick to the most reasonable conception there is on the market today - in other words to create a complementary system based on one universal ballistic package including soft ballistic panels of reasonable cut (BALCS for example) and hard ballistic plates (either ceramic or PE) both front/back and side pieces.

Then you got 3 variable covers for them - first, a "low profile" vest, holding the basic panels and two main plates - which you can wear that under your smock or tactical vest if you prefer.
Another cover is a full-scale integrated, releasable, modular vest - such as RBAV, CIRAS, IOTV, MCAV, MTV or similiar. You can enhance its basic panels + 4 plates by adding collar, groin, shoulder, blast belt, upper arm protection etc. Last one would be a standalone modular plate carrier, capable of carrying side plates too.

Having such system completed, with its ballistic components inter-compatible plus offering all virtues of the modular webbing you've got most of your bases covered - and you can adapt the kit to the role, threat level, climate etc. Honestly I don't see you blessing that LBA product when wearing it in Chad ;-)

All in all that is just my suggestion. I had my part in introducing similiar system to certain unit in Poland and I'm now working on its second, revised editon. Below is a pic of the "big" 4 plate vest from this first project named "Raptor".

[wild_wild_wes]

Let's see the helmet. Is it a proprietary design, or an existing Rabintex model?

[Catch22]

Variation of a existing 303 model - Looks very much alike the Rabintex 303AU the Aussies issue. Some available pics of 303IE below, I hope apod will provide better detailed pics.

[apod]

Well, I won't quoute from memory but there was some issues between Arktis and Protac regarding their tactical vest designs, that explains why this vest in its general panel layout and details is similiar. Not that I'd care too much if Lowe copies some rather old designs or not. The bladder in the vest is uninsulated I guess, just mesh?
Going out on a limb by saying this but arent all western european vests roughly similar in their features.They all copy off each other!:)Anyway.Yes you are right the pockets on the battlevest to take the Camelbaks are just mesh.Not insulated.I guess the designer though that would increase airflow around the back.Not great for keeping your water cool or unfrozen whicever the case,or climate ,might be.


I feel like saying that even the best ballistics put into a un-ergonomical cover would in effect reduce the combat capabilites of the user, causing discomfort, weariness, heat build-up, lack of manouverability and so on.
Agrre with you there.Look at the British Osprey armour.Great protection but very cumbersome.Therefore not very popular.Difficulties shouldering the weapon etc.We have the same problem.:roll:



Answering your question on the ballistic vest - I'd stick to the most reasonable conception there is on the market today - in other words to create a complementary system based on one universal ballistic package including soft ballistic panels of reasonable cut (BALCS for example) and hard ballistic plates (either ceramic or PE) both front/back and side pieces.

Then you got 3 variable covers for them - first, a "low profile" vest, holding the basic panels and two main plates - which you can wear that under your smock or tactical vest if you prefer.
Another cover is a full-scale integrated, releasable, modular vest - such as RBAV, CIRAS, IOTV, MCAV, MTV or similiar. You can enhance its basic panels + 4 plates by adding collar, groin, shoulder, blast belt, upper arm protection etc. Last one would be a standalone modular plate carrier, capable of carrying side plates too.

Having such system completed, with its ballistic components inter-compatible plus offering all virtues of the modular webbing you've got most of your bases covered - and you can adapt the kit to the role, threat level, climate etc. Honestly I don't see you blessing that LBA product when wearing it in Chad ;-)

Great idea.One problem.And this effects everything the irish defence forces spend money on.Cost.We are way down the list of priorities when it comes to government spending,unlike some of our european cousins.Mostly due to the civi population here not having a clue mostly what we do and why there is a need for us(joys of being "neutral").The dept of defence will never spend money on buying two to three different armour carriers per soldier when one will do as they see it.So we soldier on with what we have.The exception to the rule is the ARW who pretty much get whatever they want.And rightly so.I believe the have started using a modular plate carrier system since the went to Chad.Unsure who make it though.


All in all that is just my suggestion. I had my part in introducing similiar system to certain unit in Poland and I'm now working on its second, revised editon. Below is a pic of the "big" 4 plate vest from this first project named "Raptor".
Nice.:)


Variation of a existing 303 model - Looks very much alike the Rabintex 303AU the Aussies issue. Some available pics of 303IE below, I hope apod will provide better detailed pics.
Being honest if i was gonna post pics of the new helmet i would have posted those ones.I mean they show the inside and outside.What more detail is needed?Oh,and the IE model is exactly the same as the AU model.

BTW;There is also a detachable visor and neck shield for the helmet for public order ops.Havent seen it yet though.

[apod]

Here's a couple of pics showing the new kit in use in Chad.Courtesy of Finbarr oReilly of ******* and Rex over at IMO.:)

[Catch22]

Well, Im perfectly aware with the public mindset when it comes to spending on soldier's equipment. We got the same case here in Poland. That's why it's important to give people choice when completing equipment system so they can at least have a little margin of making it somewhat useful.

- first make it modular in widely accepted standard (PALS/MOLLE) so they could purchase some stuff on their own if they feel like it and upgrade their kit.

- Adapt the ballistic package that is most versatile - so if one's in need he can get some fitting covers on their own for both soft and hard ballistic inserts. This way you can use your issued ballistics in sometimes far better designed carrier that the one it comes with. See a relation between American Interceptor and TAG's Spartan.

Now since the milk is spilt, there's little use for any sound advice beside that you can try contact someone like Protac and ask them if they'd make a modern modular cover for the vest you've got, and perhaps a modular plate carrier too* - all of proper, mil-spec IRR materials. Looking at the vest that LBA came out with they'll find customers for such gear very soon.

*)note that use of plate carriers may need a additional soft ballistic panels, depending on if the hard plate is of ICW or StandAlone type.

Is the hard plate you got (I guess IV NIJ ceramic, ICW type) ergonomically shaped (3D, or 2D)? Is it rectangular or has it "shooters cut"?

[apod]

-
first make it modular in widely accepted standard (PALS/MOLLE) so they could purchase some stuff on their own if they feel like it and upgrade their kit.
Prota used to make modular pouches in IP-DPM but they were the only company doing so.I dont know of any other place that does.Also they competed for the contract aswell and lost to Lowe.The guy who runs the company can be pretty childish and probably wont want to make poches for a vest that he doenst make.Yeah i know.Its crap.:roll:



- Adapt the ballistic package that is most versatile - so if one's in need he can get some fitting covers on their own for both soft and hard ballistic inserts. This way you can use your issued ballistics in sometimes far better designed carrier that the one it comes with. See a relation between American Interceptor and TAG's Spartan.

Now since the milk is spilt, there's little use for any sound advice beside that you can try contact someone like Protac and ask them if they'd make a modern modular cover for the vest you've got, and perhaps a modular plate carrier too* - all of proper, mil-spec IRR materials. Looking at the vest that LBA came out with they'll find customers for such gear very soon.

Mate you have obviously never come across the irish defence forces hierarchy.When it comes to health and safety and personal protection equipment they are extemely anal in terms of not interfering with the kit as issued.Yes,we have some latitude to purchase say extra pouches etc but if any of us showed up in non issue body armour covers or plate carriers they would have a meltdown and it would have been a waste of money as we wouldnt be allowed wear them!:-(


Is the hard plate you got (I guess IV NIJ ceramic, ICW type) ergonomically shaped (3D, or 2D)? Is it rectangular or has it "shooters cut"?
The soft armour is NIJ 111A and the SAPI's are NIJ 111 10"x12" double curved.

[Kotov]

Is it just me or do those vests look tatty? I don't mean in a cosmetic sense but more, should I expect it to fray and de-thread after a night in the rough? It looks like some webtex stuff some airsoft mates use!:/ also the pattern looks a little odd, what was wrong with the current design?? I'm glad their finally issuing some new kit to our boys but at the same time,I wonder how much effort was put into ensuring it was the right stuff!

[apod]

Kotov.The pattern is exactly the same as on all the rest of our uniform.Looking at the photoagain i would say it was more my camera and the light that might make it look "off".
Also i doubt very much its gonna go tatty or fray(i hope).Lowe alpine are not known for making poor quality kit.The ARW have been using their stuff for years.The chest rigs they got made by L.A when they had their plant in Tullamore are still going strong.At thats since the early 80's!:)

[Poccington The 3rd]

I know some of the lads involved in testing the new vest before it came on issue..... They had no problems whatsoever with anything becoming frayed or de-threading.

There was certainly a lot of effort put into making sure it was up to the job, the lads said they got creased during the testing period.

Apod have ya set your vest up with all your admin for the field? If ya did, how do ya think the weight is distributed? I've done it myself and she seems to be sitting quite nicely, still didn't feel like too much weight even with the body armor on.

[martinexsquaddie]

why do you get NBC kit?
is it just for riot control agent or do you go the whole nerve gas level?
brit forces nato role I could understand and our habit of going trouble causing all over the world makes sense.
but unless the Irish are planning something bit of a waste of time.
although you may well have loads of mustard gas caches lewft over from ww1 :(

[Kotov]

Yeah is that a full NBC setup or is it as martin says, just for riot control situations (tear gas etc)

[oldsoak]

IMHO, the Irish take the view that with chemical warfare being in the reach of even third world countries, they must protect their troops appropriately in the field in a peacekeeping role. They have no gaurantee that various factions do not have access to chem weapons and might use it regardless of international niceties. Some Hezbollah nutter making such a warhead would immediately put Irish peacekeepers at risk, especially as they might have to clear up the mess.

[apod]

why do you get NBC kit?
is it just for riot control agent or do you go the whole nerve gas level?
brit forces nato role I could understand and our habit of going trouble causing all over the world makes sense.
but unless the Irish are planning something bit of a waste of time.
although you may well have loads of mustard gas caches lewft over from ww1 :(

What kind of backward potato eating yokels do you think we are?:) We train up to the NATO stanag levels in CBRN.We are members of PFP and EU's Nordic battle group and other organisations that we have to have interoperability with.We send our instructors to Winterbourne gunner the same as your guys.I myself am a CBRN instructor and we use "Survive to fight" the same as you!Just because we are Irish will not protect us if the Metalac factory catches fire in our A.O in Kosovo nor did it protect any of our guys who were on the U.N inspection teams in Iraq.
Stupid question.Cop on.:slap:

[oldsoak]

Thanks be to G*d I didnt ask the question then :-P

[apod]

Apod have ya set your vest up with all your admin for the field? If ya did, how do ya think the weight is distributed? I've done it myself and she seems to be sitting quite nicely, still didn't feel like too much weight even with the body armor on.



I certainly did.Thing to remember is that you wont get all the stuff we used to carry in PLCE belt kit into the vest(or crap we were made carry).I allways found that the more pouches you had (i have seen lads with 7 ,yes 7, pouches on the old CEFO:roll:)the more you were tempted to fill em with stuff you didnt need.Raingear,ponchos etc should all be in daysacks or bergans.End of story.
I found that once you prioritise what you need immediately to fight with or keep yourself going than all else is secondary.I think the vest in conjunction with the daysack is a winner.Comfy and weight distribution is good.:)
Out of curiosity what have you packed in yours and how?

[martinexsquaddie]

last time I met any of the irish army was back in the 1980s on the border.
Ops room for some reason started screaming at us not to engage them?
isn't it sad when the chain of command doesn't trust you :)

[apod]

last time I met any of the irish army was back in the 1980s on the border.
Ops room for some reason started screaming at us not to engage them?
isn't it sad when the chain of command doesn't trust you :)

I think you made that point already in another thread.Irish army in the 80's wasnt up to much internationally and our experience and equipment was in general poor.Things are now very different.Hopefully your experiences from back then haven't prejudiced you?Also back then there was a lot of distrust from both sides.We now send our lads over to ye for courses on a regular basis(PCBC/PSBC/CATAC/CBRNI/SNIPER and our heli pilots do training with the AAC aswell) as a result alot of our doctrine and procedures (even our TAMS) taken from ye.This has led to much closer ties and a better relationship.Long may it continue:)

[martinexsquaddie]

they seemed perfectly competent for what they were tasked with.
unlike certain British Army Units:)
and the raf landing at the guarda post:)

[trpsarge]

Helo landed at an Army post as some one forgot to top up the tanks, weather was bad and it was only when the weather cleared the crew realised how close to their own side they were.One of the nicer incidents of the period.

I don't think during the 80s the Irish Defence Forces were alone in poor kit.

Boots , Load carrying equipment and fabrics were poor across the board. The British really only woke up to the fact after the falklands.

the concepet of battle vests had been in use with fringe forces sucha sthe Israelis and South Africans but were rarely picked upon by more conventional armies until Special Forces began to get budgets of their own to procure quipment specific to their own needs.

Given we only went fully down the road on the concept of mechanised infantry recently and had only realy used it in an ATCP role Battle vest were not even thought of. Most deployments involving APCs was based around short term patrolling and the requiremnt was sufficiently met with belt order.

long range Patroling as In Liberia really upped the ante and the introduction of the Mowag Pirahana higlighted the constrictions of belt order or PLCE, Battle vest were now the order of the day.

Initially private purchase, for the guys who themselves identified the need but with the mixed bag of private purchase the PDF had to relent and see what was available. A lttle R + D and we now have purpose designed kit..and it only took twenty years.

[Connaught Ranger]

I think you made that point already in another thread.Irish army in the 80's wasnt up to much internationally and our experience and equipment was in general poor.Things are now very different.Hopefully your experiences from back then haven't prejudiced you?Also back then there was a lot of distrust from both sides.We now send our lads over to ye for courses on a regular basis(PCBC/PSBC/CATAC/CBRNI/SNIPER and our heli pilots do training with the AAC aswell) as a result alot of our doctrine and procedures (even our TAMS) taken from ye.This has led to much closer ties and a better relationship.Long may it continue:)

Having been on the Donegal Border for most off my service 1976 - 1997

I have to say we never had any distrust of the British Army, officially the protocol stated we had to make contact via the Garda, (Irish Police) who in turn contacted the R.U.C. who passed it on to the B.A. and vice versa, however there were occasions when the Irish defence Forces and B.A, conversed head to head, even if unofficially.

If my memory is not faulty,:oops: the British had B.A.P.s, F.N.s, G.P.M.G.s, in the 1980's

and were still using 58 Pattern webbing, Landrovers, etc..etc

So no giant differences excepting their communications gear, camo combats, helmets, sterlings sub-macine guns, A.P.C.'s, and of course they had more OTJ skills.:)

Connaught Ranger.

[Soldat_Américain]

I liked everything except the Body Armor...looks like the current one in use in France, they use the CIRAS in Afghanistan though, however most of the good gear just gets handed off to the next guys rather than trying to equip everyone, so it's a stop gap for now. The French vest is just ginormous and well I wouldn't want to wear it...and like this new Irish one it really isn't new.

[apod]

and like this new Irish one it really isn't new.
They are new to us.If the we were to buy M4 rifles in the morning that wouldnt make it a new rifle,just new in service with us.Hence the thread title.Also to refute your point i dont believe their is another vest on the market with exactly the same design as it was made to a specific request by our Defence forces.Some features are similar to other vests ,as most vests tend to be,but not exactly the same.:)

[RIPTIDE]

It's still a huge step forward for the Irish DF as prior to this body armour was on a pooled basis, it was a great step forward to get personal issue that provides good protection. The helmet is fantastic as is the rest of the gear.
It wouldn't take much to upgrade the Body armour cover to be a modular vest, perhaps for overseas issue.
It sure is. ;) Although Sometimes I think O'Dea is trying to engage in a reverse arms race with the likes of New Zealand. :roll: