TIMES: The farce of bashing China's human rights record

[longlivechina]

The farce of bashing China's human rights record

July 14, 2008

Brendan O'Neill: Western politicians must not assume the moral highground on China

Radhabindo Pal (1886-1967), the great Indian jurist, was the only one out of 11 Allied justices who handed down a not-guilty verdict for Japan’s wartime leaders in the Tokyo trials of 1946.

Not because he was in denial about Japanese war crimes; he recognised the severity of acts such as the Nanjing massacre. Rather, he insisted that Japan’s wartime leaders “should be acquitted on all charges” because it was farcical for America and Western colonialists - the droppers of the atomic bomb - to sit in judgement on the Japanese.

In his 1,235-page dissent, which was banned under the US occupation of Japan and only released in 1952, Pal criticised the treatment of Eastern war crimes as somehow more unusually cruel than Western acts of war.

Today, history is being repeated as farce - or rather, farce is being repeated as even bigger farce.

The lowlife double standards that informed Western views of the vicious Easterner 60 years ago are being rehabilitated in the modern era by human rights activists, who are calling on Western democracies to put pressure on China over its occupation of Tibet and its human rights abuses.

The West has no moral authority to lecture anyone, including China, about rights and democracy. Respect for liberty is at an historic low in Europe and the US.

Here in Britain, the right to jury trial has been curtailed, Habeus Corpus has been obliterated, and free speech has been curbed through the creation of new thought crimes (see the Racial and Religious Hatred Act).

European elites are increasingly uncomfortable with – if not hostile to – the idea of democracy. When the Irish dared to reject the Lisbon Treaty they were widely discussed as uneducated, ungrateful ‘plebs’ and ‘clowns’ who should be forced to vote again.

Human Rights Watch wants Gordon Brown to pressurise China over its antics in Tibet. Yet Brown is one of the chief cheque-writers for the destruction of Iraq, which has left an estimated 400,000 people dead. It’s like asking Rose West to opening a halfway house for young runaways.

Why would anyone want Brown, Bush or Sarkozy, all of whom have shown a naked disregard for fundamental freedoms and international stability, to “educate” the Chinese? People in the moral gutter cannot take the moral highground.

The message of the human rights activists seems clear: while the West occasionally makes “mistakes” – in Iraq and Guantanamo, for example – the East is more naturally wicked. Consider the words used to describe Chinese officials who abuse human rights : they are “evil goons”, “thugs”, “robots”, even “retards”.

In short? “Our” human rights abuses are blunders; “their” human rights abuses spring from a culturally ingrained (a PC term for “racially driven”) wickedness.

Human rights campaigners are unwittingly rehabilitating the White Man’s Burden in relation to the East. That might allow Bush and Brown to feel momentarily superior, but it will do precisely nothing to develop democratic rights in China.



Brendan O'Neill is editor of spiked

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/specials/article4329902.ece (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/specials/article4329902.ece)

[Adux]

Hail the Liberal diatribe.

[akd]

The message of the human rights activists seems clear: while the West occasionally makes “mistakes” – in Iraq and Guantanamo, for example – the East is more naturally wicked. Consider the words used to describe Chinese officials who abuse human rights : they are “evil goons”, “thugs”, “robots”, even “retards”.

In short? “Our” human rights abuses are blunders; “their” human rights abuses spring from a culturally ingrained (a PC term for “racially driven”) wickedness.

Human rights campaigners are unwittingly rehabilitating the White Man’s Burden in relation to the East. That might allow Bush and Brown to feel momentarily superior, but it will do precisely nothing to develop democratic rights in China.


How can Tibet have a such a favorable image in the West if it is truly racist stereotypes that drive criticism of China? Rather, it is a view that human rights abuses, particularly oppression of peaceful citizens, spring from an ideologically-ingrained wickedness.

[deagle]

well, imperial army was guilty, so put them on trial for their actions. And if he felt so strongly, start a new trial for war crimes against allies. its NOTHING compared to deliberate and prolonged harsh experiences suffered by the populace.

[PeterRJG]

Hail the Liberal diatribe.

x2


Not because he was in denial about Japanese war crimes; he recognised the severity of acts such as the Nanjing massacre. Rather, he insisted that Japan’s wartime leaders “should be acquitted on all charges” because it was farcical for America and Western colonialists - the droppers of the atomic bomb - to sit in judgement on the Japanese.

Farcical? When did the "American and Western colonialists" invade a city and systematically rape and murder some 300000+ of its citizens? I mean in the last thousand years too, thank you.

Newsflash, hyper-liberal and China-friendly media: Japan were the belligerents in WW2.

[Clayton Gold]

Funny stuff. The writer should consider a career in comedy.

[Adux]

The farce of bashing China's human rights record

July 14, 2008

Brendan O'Neill: Western politicians must not assume the moral highground on China

Radhabindo Pal (1886-1967), the great Indian jurist, was the only one out of 11 Allied justices who handed down a not-guilty verdict for Japan’s wartime leaders in the Tokyo trials of 1946.

Not because he was in denial about Japanese war crimes; he recognised the severity of acts such as the Nanjing massacre. Rather, he insisted that Japan’s wartime leaders “should be acquitted on all charges” because it was farcical for America and Western colonialists - the droppers of the atomic bomb - to sit in judgement on the Japanese.

(http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/specials/article4329902.ece)

Maybe because the esteemed Indian jurist was from Calcutta, the liberal pinko commie hub of India, and was bengali, Indian National Army(as much as I support it) under subash Chandra Bose(again a Bengali) was supported by the Japanese. It is clear and understandable a Jurist who has seen enough terrible things committed by the British in India would show bias towards Japan. Whatever Colonist of America and Briain have done, including loot the richest country in the world to the poorest, Jalinwalabagh and all, would have pailed in comparison to what Germany and Japan had in mind for the so called 'inferior' races. I am in no way absolving Britain of any crimes that it has committed over 200 years in India. But that is history, and it cannot be used as a precendent atleast in this case.

[California Joe]

Wait, let me get this straight. Modern day China is comparing itself to WWII Japan as being victims of racist westerners with a double standard of what constitutes human rights? That would be humorous if it wasn't so perverse.

Radhabindo Pal, much like the douche that wrote this, had his head up a sacred cows arse.

[oldsoak]

I sometimes wonder if we couldnt use this. I'd be very tempted to tell the bleeding heart liberals that we arent going to say or do anything about HR abuses because we are not the guys to do it ! Not even say a word until we fully sort ourselves out - which might be years.....

[Adux]

Radhabindo Pal, much like the douche that wrote this, had his head up a sacred cows arse.

WHAT!!!!!! Blasmphemy, Where is the Republic of California Embassy, Flag Burning to dorofl

[brainplay]

Here in Britain, the right to jury trial has been curtailed, Habeus Corpus has been obliterated, and free speech has been curbed through the creation of new thought crimes (see the Racial and Religious Hatred Act).

And yet this hasn't been censored nor have the black helicopters started circling his house...yet! =p Gotta love it when they harp on the "my freedoms are all gone" bit.


European elites are increasingly uncomfortable with – if not hostile to – the idea of democracy. When the Irish dared to reject the Lisbon Treaty they were widely discussed as uneducated, ungrateful ‘plebs’ and ‘clowns’ who should be forced to vote again.

This is so wrong on so many ways.

[Adux]

The writer is a commie to the core!!!! The moment someone uses the word 'Elite' take note and read further. You can make your judgments, 'Elite' the darling word of abuse to the Commies

[Mastermind]

In other words...it is all totally relativistic? Right? The wrongs of the Japanese were righteous because, relative to the the wrongs of the Westerners the two wrongs equal one positive! Why, it's practically Algebra 101!

My God. How self omnipotent these liberals have become.

The truth of this relativism is, it is all based on polite exquisite isolated rich man drivel. Wealthy people can insulate themselves from the mass rabble of the world and say these strange and haughty things to make us poor gutter twerps feel so utterly hopeless swimming along in our vile excrements.

However, I notice all these Lords of Righteousness seem to vanish rather quickly when it is their own life of ease at stake. Where were they the day the decision was being made to roast those innocent poor people of Cologne and Hamburg and Dresden? How pleasant of them to so easily excuse themselves from the table of decision the evening of planning for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They enjoy the fruits of freedom and the rewards of the drudgery it takes to make this world of excesses work. They come out of their safe-harbor vacations from the evil that surrounds us and parade about in their fine cars and in their marvelous fine clothes to preach to us how nasty we poor working slobs are the very second the fire and blood are gone. They then pool their enlightened selves to positions of power so they can preach down to us?

The dirty slimy bastards!

It is because of the blood stains on my shirt and the graves of my brothers in arms they can even stand today, free to mouth off how kind we should be to tyrants...how evil we are to curse the work of the murdering savages who would gladly destroy us this very day if they could.

And, I can assure you, the very minute this world is truly at risk, those very same angles of social mercy will as quickly vanish, and leave us alone in our crass brutality to again lift the shovel and gun and the factory door...to go out and slay those muther fkcers who would deny them their rightful place at the head of the table we so lavishly serve.

And then, when it is over...when we have again buried the last of our brave, they will again return, meekly at first...then as the peace lasts, more boldly to spout their idiotic and unearned words of wisdom in our faces.

You know what? I say to Hell with them...to bloody hell with them!

The next time we go out to save this civilization we have built and upon which they so easily enjoy...we should make sure they are marching at the front...ahead of our bayonets...to let them see first hand the faces of the beasts they so easily have found excuses for.

[LongShot]

I actually want to bill this guy for the time it took to read the article.....:|

[damagejackal]

WHAT!!!!!! Blasmphemy, Where is the Republic of California Embassy, Flag Burning to dorofl

I thought effigy burning was more popular down your way...

[Adux]

I thought effigy burning was more popular down your way...

That too, i guess it will be fun!!!! I dont know about that, But I thought people of Islamic faith (cartoon sect) did the riots better;)

[Adux]

Mastermind,

What a good read, I bow my head. Brilliant and thought provoking

[matthew.manhorn]

I really appreciate the love and concern towards the suppressed Tibetan people from the "Free Tibet" protesters during the the Chinese earthquake, especially when numerous injured / trapped Tibetans were being rescued by the PLA.

[Kilgor]

Welcome china, to the public eye. Where the tall trees cop the most wind.

Get used to it.

[LaoSexMachine]

I really appreciate the love and concern towards the suppressed Tibetan people from the "Free Tibet" protesters during the the Chinese earthquake, especially when numerous injured / trapped Tibetans were being rescued by the PLA.

How you know this?

[gaijinsamurai]

It is ironic that the author blasts "hypocritical" Western condemnation of Asian countries' human rights policies, when it was US support for China during Japan's occupation that lead to the war between the US and Japan.

I suppose the US should have remained silent and let the Japanese continue their brutality?

[matthew.manhorn]

It is ironic that the author blasts "hypocritical" Western condemnation of Asian countries' human rights policies, when it was US support for China during Japan's occupation that lead to the war between the US and Japan.

I suppose the US should have remained silent and let the Japanese continue their brutality?

I agree, I always persuade some nationalistic Chinese friends not to be anti-American, I love America.

But about the WW2 part didn't the US declare war to Japan after Pearl Harbor? (The flying tiger missions were all covert and unnoticed by the Japs).

But politics is all about interests, and people either benefit or suffer through it. The Americans' (with the exception of Chinese Americans) support to the Chinese might not be wholeheartedly but for interest, nonetheless, it still benefited and saved millions of Chinese lives indirectly.

[gaijinsamurai]

The Pearl Harbor attack was a result of US sanctions against Japan because of Japan's invasion of China. The US demanded that Japan withdraw from China. Japan wanted to hang on to Manchuria, and the US refused to compromise (and rightfully so). The Japanese felt war would be inevitable, and chose to strike first, in the hopes of crippling the US Pacific Fleet.

If the US had turned a blind eye to Japan's imperialism, history might have been very different.

[matthew.manhorn]

How you know this?

about 30% of the earthquake victims were Tibetans, which is reasonable since Sichuan was located in South Western China

[LaoSexMachine]

about 30% of the earthquake victims were Tibetans, which is reasonable since Sichuan was located in South Western China


Any links to back this 30% up?

[longlivechina]

Any links to back this 30% up?

Countless numbers of Tibetans have perished in the massive May 12 earthquakes in Sichuan Province. The epicenter of the earthquake was located in Ngawa (Naba) Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture, Wenchuan County, where over half the population is Tibetan.

[Adux]

Countless numbers of Tibetans have perished in the massive May 12 earthquakes in Sichuan Province. The epicenter of the earthquake was located in Ngawa (Naba) Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture, Wenchuan County, where over half the population is Tibetan.

how convenient for china!!!

[armchairpundit]

Wtf, quit harping about liberals. Article sure isn't liberal and author is a right-wing trotskyist running a libertarian-marxist paper (yes, that is really all over the political spectrum except liberal.)

[KoTeMoRe]

x2



Farcical? When did the "American and Western colonialists" invade a city and systematically rape and murder some 300000+ of its citizens? I mean in the last thousand years too, thank you.

Newsflash, hyper-liberal and China-friendly media: Japan were the belligerents in WW2.

Fvcking gunboat policy? Aren't you Australian? Dre$den? Tokyo?

Johnnycab lets' be friends over double standarts, share this great place MP.net is and leave it here.

I maybe over the mark but in the name of Haysoos, lets be friends.

[LRPV]

Fvcking gunboat policy? Aren't you Australian? Dre$den? Tokyo?

Johnnycab lets' be friends over double standarts, share this great place MP.net is and leave it here.

I maybe over the mark but in the name of Haysoos, lets be friends.


Dresden is in Germany, an aggressor.

Tokyo is in Japan, an aggressor.

No double standards, our families fought to defend our countries, not enslave other nations.

[PeterRJG]

Fvcking gunboat policy? Aren't you Australian? Dre$den? Tokyo?

Johnnycab lets' be friends over double standarts, share this great place MP.net is and leave it here.

I maybe over the mark but in the name of Haysoos, lets be friends.

Get a clue, and get one ASAP. Double standards, get fvcked. Who started what in WW2? Or did the US drop nukes on Japan for sh!ts and giggles in your book?

Would Dresden have been bombed otherwise? Tokyo? If you're comparing the bombing of Dresden with what Imperial Japan did in Nanjing, if it's even remotely on the same page to you, you need to get off the internet.

Friend? Take a long walk off a short pier buddy, and don't demean the word by applying it falsely.

[Mastermind]

I think, as the Olympic spotlight brightens and focuses more and more on Chinese leadership's inability to be enlightened it will show them for what they really are. They are Communist in the best tradition of Bloody Mao. They are exactly the same types who crushed people to death at Tianimin...they are showing how intolerant they are of every freedom human beings crave. Sure, they have gotten on the bandwagon of taking the best capitalism has to offer becasue they had to face the same social bankruptcy the Russian Commies faced in 91. But, they have entered Tibet with sharpened bayonetts, they have arrested people on the slightest suspicions and they repeatedly show how enslaved the Chinese populations are by their massive and careless orders to help present a false image of what China really is...a filth ridden, polluting mass of corrupt dirty old Commies.

Chinese people have seen a small glimmer of hope as the capitalistic cat has been let out of the bag. But, the government has made it very painfully clear, any sort of reach for more freedom will be brutally dealt with.

So, those who have espoused the wonder and benevolence of the Chinese Communists, please take your kind excuses for the Chinese government and shove them. You don't have a clue.

[SBL]

I agree with your analysis, MM. I get the impression that the Politburo feels like they've bitten off a little more than they can chew in regards to allowing the Olympics be in Beijing. I think that's why we're seeing all these draconian measures like banning photography, internet blocks, etc.

[KoTeMoRe]

Get a clue, and get one ASAP. Double standards, get fvcked. Who started what in WW2? Or did the US drop nukes on Japan for sh!ts and giggles in your book?

Would Dresden have been bombed otherwise? Tokyo? If you're comparing the bombing of Dresden with what Imperial Japan did in Nanjing, if it's even remotely on the same page to you, you need to get off the internet.

Friend? Take a long walk off a short pier buddy, and don't demean the word by applying it falsely.


I said it you don't want me started. YOU SIMPLY DON'T WANT ME!

As for who started what...what the fvck are doeing caucasians that far in the globe? I mean aren't you australian?

Would Dresden have been bombed otherwise? I can give you two different answers regarding the explicit issue within your argumentation and linked with this article.

1.This article is about the moral high ground. Morality, preaching, you know the good guys vs the bad guys.

Levelling Dresden and Tokyo and launching a nuclear attack on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, from the moral standpoint is strictly, STRICTLY EQUAL.

2. What synchronism has to do with morality? Who started WW2, great so now armed with the toga of the victim everything is permitted?
I may kill you, would that mean your kid would have the right to kill my grandson for that exaction?

It's sad to see how low your morality fares, and this is comming from an amoral person.

I could beat your silly emotional argument to the pulp and then throw it to the dogs, but I won't. I'll stop here and let you link your words with the article. It's not history and historical judgemnt, it's simply a morality matter.

If you can't see through the fog of war and call it a day for morality, when it is revenge in disguise, then you're right we cannot be friends. But this is not some Internet bravado, I'm serious here, you're in great need of help, you're just full of yourself. Typical caucasian BTW (coming from another caucasian).

Oh and don't come with the white man guilt BS, it's simply our principles put under scrutiny and derided by your lot as liberalism...

:roll:

Edit: MM useing pastiches and caricatures to describe a political class with so much diversity is in a sense a very clever way to hide your (our/western) ignorance about China's balance and internal powerplay.

Like it or not, they are having their way on our own door with our own symbols (or what is left of it). So before poking fun at them, let's just think about our own backyard.

[PeterRJG]

I said it you don't want me started. YOU SIMPLY DON'T WANT ME!




Or else what?


Would Dresden have been bombed otherwise? I can give you two different answers regarding the explicit issue within your argumentation and linked with this article.


Go ahead and give them. It's fun to watch people flail when arguing from an indefensible position.


1.This article is about the moral high ground. Morality, preaching, you know the good guys vs the bad guys.


The consensus is that the Germans and Japanese were the bad guys in WW2, a fact even they have admitted to. The Germans more so than the Japanese, admittedly. No preaching involved.



Levelling Dresden and Tokyo and launching a nuclear attack on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, from the moral standpoint is strictly, STRICTLY EQUAL.

2. What synchronism has to do with morality? Who started WW2, great so now armed with the toga of the victim everything is permitted?
I may kill you, would that mean your kid would have the right to kill my grandson for that exaction?

It's sad to see how low your morality fares, and this is comming from an amoral person.


Once in again, in English.



I could beat your silly emotional argument to the pulp and then throw it to the dogs, but I won't.


Go ahead. I'll call your ****-talking bluff right here.



I'll stop here and let you link your words with the article. It's not history and historical judgemnt, it's simply a morality matter.


72 million or so dead is a "morality matter". You sir, are a moonbat of the first order.



If you can't see through the fog of war and call it a day for morality, when it is revenge in disguise, then you're right we cannot be friends. But this is not some Internet bravado, I'm serious here, you're in great need of help, you're just full of yourself. Typical caucasian BTW (coming from another caucasian).


No, it's internet bravado. And pretty piss-poor internet bravado at that.




Oh and don't come with the white man guilt BS, it's simply our principles put under scrutiny and derided by your lot as liberalism...

:roll:



What white man guilt BS? Again, WTF are you talking about?

But anyway, beat me to a pulp. Off you go, on your bike.

[KoTeMoRe]

As I said, you're full of yourself and don't get a slight concept regarding morality.

But hey...let's just be friends. Your points all hold, I surrender. I'm a moonbat. Sorry for my intention to introduce you to sanity.

[PeterRJG]

As I said, you're full of yourself and don't get a slight concept regarding morality.


I'm full of myself because I hold a point of view significantly different to yours? Hell, sh!t on a stick, whatever will we do?



But hey...let's just be friends. Your points all hold, I surrender. I'm a moonbat. Sorry for my intention to introduce you to sanity.

To you, the world is a tragic and hateful place that exists only to screw you over, and for that, I'm sorry.

[orionhawk]

Gentlemen, if you must continue this enlightening discussion, please take it to PM, before somebody locks this thread.

[KoTeMoRe]

I'm full of myself because I hold a point of view significantly different to yours? Hell, sh!t on a stick, whatever will we do?



To you, the world is a tragic and hateful place that exists only to screw you over, and for that, I'm sorry.

No to me the world becomes that tragic and hateful place when our kind, starts messing with concepts it doesn't grasp and calls it a day.

As for your opinion, yeah, you know what Plato said about that to Socrates:

While visiting the tumulus :

Who's lingering now (Socrates killed himslef as he was condemned despite being innocent)?

[LongShot]

........beat me to a pulp. Off you go, on your bike.


rofl..................................

[muttbutt]

Typical caucasian BTW (coming from another caucasian). Well you racist little crank:roll: