Legislators aim to snuff out penalties for pot use

[CPLHUNTER]

I never thought I would ever agree w/ anything Barney Frank would propose. This time a bit different. In my experiences, smoking pot is less harmful than drinking alcohol and less addiction forming. That being said, pot is a harmfull substance just like cigs, booze, etc.

Legislators aim to snuff out penalties for pot use

(CNN) -- The U.S. should stop arresting responsible marijuana users, Rep. Barney Frank said Wednesday, announcing a proposal to end federal penalties for Americans carrying fewer than 100 grams, almost a quarter-pound, of the substance.

Current laws targeting marijuana users place undue burdens on law enforcement resources, punish ill Americans whose doctors have prescribed the substance and unfairly affect African-Americans, said Frank, flanked by legislators and representatives from advocacy groups.

"The vast amount of human activity ought to be none of the government's business," Frank said during a Capitol Hill news conference. "I don't think it is the government's business to tell you how to spend your leisure time."
The Massachusetts Democrat and his supporters emphasized that only the use -- and not the abuse -- of marijuana would be decriminalized if the resolution resulted in legislation.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/30/frank.marijuana/index.html

[Migman]

I'm definitely in favor of this. And the upside is the prison system might just breathe a sigh of relief.

[seraosha]

I'm definitely in favor of this. And the upside is the prison system might just breathe a sigh of relief.

Let's see...22 and in college?
I'd be surprised if you weren't in support of this p-)

But I agree...although a quarter pound sounds like a lot of weed.

[Polygon]

I'm definitely in favor of this. And the upside is the prison system might just breathe a sigh of relief.

x2

Less non-violent offenders we'll see...

[Ratamacue]

Legalize it, tax it, and establish laws for DUI.

[ronnieraygun]

But I agree...although a quarter pound sounds like a lot of weed.

I'm all for it for a number of reasons, but I was thinking the same myself. At the upper limits of what would be permissible you could actually deal out quite a few dime bags. That would not help much.

[wigon]

I agree...that's a wee bit much. Although some users do stockpile that much in their personal stash. It's very rare that I meet any college students that don't use it. As it is however is just a misdemeanor in most states if you get caught with a few joints or a pipe full. But you can still go to jail and lose your job over it (not to mention missing class and tests if you're a college student).
Overall while it still has some carcinogenic properties, it has vastly less then nicotine which literally is poison (easiest poison to make to kill someone).
Compared to alcohol, the amount of mental impairment is likewise considerably less, although it still should be considered a DWI if you are stoned and have a car accident. Like alcohol (and talking on cell phones) it can definitely reduce your reaction time and judgement.
However personally I think it's alot healthier then popping Valiums or Lorazapan and similar drugs all the time. I've seen people who are hooked legally to prescription anti-anxiety drugs and who have had horrific experiences that pale in comparison to marijuana abuse and withdrawl. But... .those are legal...cuz they make the pharmaceutical industry TONS OF MONEY!
Where as marijuana, anyone can grow in their backyard as it literally is a weed and grows damn near anywhere.
What pisses me off even more however is the ATF ban on industrial hemp production. A few Native American tribes have been busted for trying to do this even though there is like a fraction of a percent of THC in it. The ATF says that they might hide illegal marijuana in those fields...and have no clue about agriculture in which real marijuana would get pollinated by the industrial hemp and thus lose most of its THC content. You would end up with real weak, nasty tasting marijuana if you tried growing more then one crop from the seeds of the first season.
But Big Brother knows best eh?

Overall I think even Marijuana dealing should be made a misdemeanor unless you are dealing in or smuggling MASSIVE amounts of marijuana from other countries. That way, if you get caught dealing, your pocket book gets hit hard. That usually is enough to put such people out of business.

Wigon

[Hellfish]

How would you test for a pot DWI?

[Polygon]

I've never had it, but assuming the person is acting and driving unsafely or irrationally for starters.

[Hellfish]

Yeah, but with alcohol you have the field sobriety test and the breathalyzer. How would you test for pot? Would the same sobriety test work?

It's an important thing to test if you were to legalize it and treat is as a substance like alcohol. You'd have to have court-admissible proof the driver was intoxicated.

[Polygon]

Yeah, I guess field "sobriety" would be the main one if the person is assumed to have been "intoxicated" by pot so to speak. Not sure about the breathalyzer though.

[Hollis]

How would you test for a pot DWI?


Now they video tape the field sobriety test, the observation that lead the probable cause to effect a traffic stop. A BA, is not that definitive. Only thing a BA does establish as assumption of being under the influence. Most the news on BA really misinform people. If all a cop has is the BA, it was not a good arrest and probably a decent lawyer would get a acquittal.

I am not sure if a blood test does anything, it been awhile. Also the test are under implied consent. This means a person can refuse to take the BA, but some penalties apply.

The Video tends to seal the case.

[Albatross]

How would you test for a pot DWI?

Open doritos bag, you get tossed in the hot box.

[wigon]

Open doritos bag, you get tossed in the hot box.


HAHAHAHAHA!!! Yeah that would be pretty good evidence. LOL!
Seriously though, even the stiff penalties of a few hundreds bucks for not taking a pee test would be enough to make a user think twice. DWI's in comparison tend to have drunks that have no freak'n clue where they are. Even if they are midly intoxiated, often they see cross-eyed. I know I do when I even get a mild buzz going. Hence why I don't drive if I'm out drinking. You see that's why I love having Muslim friends. :) They're my designated drivers. :)

I guess when it comes down to it, we really need a lot more scientific data on the impact of Marijuana on driving and what levels make it equal to driving while intoxicated. What makes THC more complicated is that under some conditions it can actually act as a hyper-stimulant and have the opposite effect with a greatly increased heart-rate and paranoia.
So it's not a simple drug nor a harmless drug. What we really need is more non--partisan research on it to really understand the full range of effects it has on people and possible interactions with other drugs.


Wigon

[Fade]

I think they check for pupil dilation using a card with holes of various sizes. Memory hazy.

[brainplay]

Yeah, but with alcohol you have the field sobriety test and the breathalyzer. How would you test for pot? Would the same sobriety test work?

It's an important thing to test if you were to legalize it and treat is as a substance like alcohol. You'd have to have court-admissible proof the driver was intoxicated.

Field sobriety tests work for most mind altering drugs including marijuana. If you fail a FST you get to take a ride to the station. Its the testing part that gets tough. I'd say blood but even then thats iffy. Urine...well good luck trying to get that in a cup from an intoxicated guy at 2am.

The penalty for refusal to take a Breathalyzer test is an automatic 180-day suspension of driving privileges for a first-time offender, and two years for someone with previous drug- or alcohol-related contacts within 10 years of the arrest. The penalty for failing a Breathalyzer is less severe, at 90 days for a first-timer and one year for contacts within 10 years.

I think the funniest part is that if you did legalize it, tax it, and require licenses to sell there would be a hard lobby for harsh penalties against illegal distributors by the tobacco/marijuana companies.


edit: Did some research on impairment and found this: http://www.mpp.org/library/marijuana-and-dui-laws-how.html


It is unclear what blood level of THC (the main psychoactive ingredient in marijuana) constitutes actual impairment.

The most meaningful recent study measuring driver "culpability" (i.e., who is at fault) in 3,400 crashes over a 10–year period indicated that drivers with THC concentrations of less than five ng/mL in their blood have a crash risk no higher than that of drug–free users. The crash risk begins to rise above the risk for sober drivers when a marijuana user's THC concentrations in whole blood3 reach five to 10 ng/mL

Because smoked THC is rapidly transferred into the blood stream, THC levels in the blood rise quickly immediately after inhalation. Depending on the dose, THC typically reaches peak concentrations of more than 100 ng/mL five to 10 minutes after inhalation and then rapidly decreases to between one and four ng/mL within three to four hours.
However, the blood serum of moderate to heavy marijuana users may contain more than two ng/mL of THC at 24 or even 48 hours after smoking a single joint, a level that studies have shown does not produce impairment.

[Zoomie]

I am not sure if a blood test does anything, it been awhile. Also the test are under implied consent. This means a person can refuse to take the BA, but some penalties apply.

The Video tends to seal the case.
Well in FL, if you refuse the breathalyser test, you go directly to jail, and don't collect $200. p-) I'd say that'd be a significant penalty.

[wigon]

Well in FL, if you refuse the breathalyser test, you go directly to jail, and don't collect $200. p-) I'd say that'd be a significant penalty.

I'd say that depending on how high they seem, better to just fine them $500 if they refuse. That way the state/city/county brings in revenue and the taxpayer doesn't have to pay for housing them in a local jail.

Wigon

[Van Gogh]

when i was pulled over and caught with a pound of weed they just took my weed but they let me go. I guess im one of the lucky ones. true story btw.

[shocker1]

Any numbers on fatal automobile accidents directly related to the use of Pot? Any numbers on spousal abuse, child abuse or homelessness due to weed abuse?:)

[Hollis]

Well in FL, if you refuse the breathalyser test, you go directly to jail, and don't collect $200. p-) I'd say that'd be a significant penalty.


Oregon it is the lost of your drivers license for a year, a conditional use permit for work is possible. A DUI, can cost $7,000 and up, compare to the $200, the $200 risk may be much cheaper.

If the LEO does a poor job on the arrest report and presentation in court, not having a BA could work in the defendant favor for verdict of not guilty.

[eskachig]

Any numbers on spousal abuse, child abuse or homelessness due to weed abuse?:)
I'm guessing that pot doesn't contribute to spousal or child abuse whatsoever. When was the last time you saw a stoner want to fight somebody?

Pot is the most harmless intoxicant in the history of mankind, the very fact that it's illegal is a gigantic joke.

[Kilgor]

I'm guessing that pot doesn't contribute to spousal or child abuse whatsoever. When was the last time you saw a stoner want to fight somebody?

Pot is the most harmless intoxicant in the history of mankind, the very fact that it's illegal is a gigantic joke.

Complete and utterly wrong.

Apart from putting smoke and Sh1t into your lungs, it increases the chances of a number of mental illnesses of occurring.

I would decriminalise but not legalise the drug.

[LaoSexMachine]

I have no problem with weed.

[wigon]

Any numbers on fatal automobile accidents directly related to the use of Pot? Any numbers on spousal abuse, child abuse or homelessness due to weed abuse?:)


Never heard of that. Yeah some homeless people like weed, but for the most part, their drug of choice is either Alcohol, heroin, or meth from what I've heard spending time around the homeless. Alcohol seems to be #1.

I've never heard of anyone getting violent while smoking weed.


Wigon

[Power_serj]

How would you test for a pot DWI?

"Will you please pee in this cup sir. I am required to hold the cup while you urinate to make sure that the test is not tampered with." rofl

What's the purpose of snuffing out penalties. If they want to relieve the jails of a heavy load, fine them heavily and make them do community service.

[wigon]

Now what I get pissed off at is cops stopping me for smoking beedies (small Indian leaf-wrapped cigarrettes that look and smell like joints). Even when I show them the package they still give me a hell of a hard time. Hell even a small pipe they'll stop me for smoking it cuz they think I'm smoking weed in it.
So yeah... for those of us who are not super old and who like smoking pipes and odd tabacco products like beedies (and Middle Eastern Shisha pipes), it would be very nice if they changed the laws a bit.


Wigon

[WarriorMonk]

Oh goody! more stoned people for me to toy with!

(proud not to smoke cannabis, come and get me.)

[wigon]

Oh goody! more stoned people for me to toy with!

(proud not to smoke cannabis, come and get me.)


Nah stoners would be too stoned to bother with you, although they may beg you for food cuz they get real hungry.
One of the downsides is that legalizing pot wouldn't help America's obesity epidemic.

Wigon

[CPLHUNTER]

when i was pulled over and caught with a pound of weed they just took my weed but they let me go. I guess im one of the lucky ones. true story btw.

Lucky to be sure...in situations like that I would imagine some of your lb was stashed by the cops...

[BigDukaroo]

I'm guessing that pot doesn't contribute to spousal or child abuse whatsoever. When was the last time you saw a stoner wanting to do anything?

Pot is the most harmless intoxicant in the history of mankind, the very fact that it's illegal is a gigantic joke.

Fixed it for you.

[wigon]

Lucky to be sure...in situations like that I would imagine some of your lb was stashed by the cops...


Probably it was either to sell themselves or as a nasty tool to get information out of gang members by planting drugs on them. Generally it's the latter. Often planting drugs is also used as a simple way to get known criminals out on parole back into prison as they get real tired of seeing criminals walking the streets just a few months after they arrested them for a serious crime.

Wigon