You Still Cant Write about Mohammed....

[Calanen]

You Still Can't Write
About Muhammad

By ASRA Q. NOMANI
August 6, 2008; Page A15

Starting in 2002, Spokane, Wash., journalist Sherry Jones toiled weekends on a racy historical novel about Aisha, the young wife of the prophet Muhammad. Ms. Jones learned Arabic, studied scholarly works about Aisha's life, and came to admire her protagonist as a woman of courage. When Random House bought her novel last year in a $100,000, two-book deal, she was ecstatic. This past spring, she began plans for an eight-city book tour after the Aug. 12 publication date of "The Jewel of Medina" -- a tale of lust, love and intrigue in the prophet's harem.

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-BZ415_oj_nom_20080805182504.jpgCorbis
It's not going to happen: In May, Random House abruptly called off publication of the book. The series of events that torpedoed this novel are a window into how quickly fear stunts intelligent discourse about the Muslim world.

Random House feared the book would
become a new "Satanic Verses," the Salman Rushdie novel of 1988 that led to death threats, riots and the murder of the book's Japanese translator, among other horrors. In an interview about Ms. Jones's novel, Thomas Perry, deputy publisher at Random House Publishing Group, said that it "disturbs us that we feel we cannot publish it right now." He said that after sending out advance copies of the novel, the company received "from credible and unrelated sources, cautionary advice not only that the publication of this book might be offensive to some in the Muslim community, but also that it could incite acts of violence by a small, radical segment."

After consulting security experts and Islam scholars, Mr. Perry said the company decided "to postpone publication for the safety of the author, employees of Random House, booksellers and anyone else who would be involved in distribution and sale of the novel."

This saga upsets me as a Muslim -- and as a writer who believes that fiction can bring Islamic history to life in a uniquely captivating and humanizing way. "I'm devastated," Ms. Jones told me after the book got spiked, adding, "I wanted to honor Aisha and all the wives of Muhammad by giving voice to them, remarkable women whose crucial roles in the shaping of Islam have so often been ignored -- silenced -- by historians."

Last month, Ms. Jones signed a termination agreement with Random House, so her literary agent could shop the book to other publishers.
This time, the instigator of the trouble wasn't a radical Muslim cleric, but an American academic. In April, looking for endorsements, Random House sent galleys to writers and scholars, including Denise Spellberg, an associate professor of Islamic history at the University of Texas in Austin. Ms. Jones put her on the list because she read Ms. Spellberg's book,

"Politics, Gender, and the Islamic Past: The Legacy of 'A'isha Bint Abi Bakr."

But Ms. Spellberg wasn't a fan of Ms. Jones's book. On April 30, Shahed Amanullah, a guest lecturer in Ms. Spellberg's classes and the editor of a popular Muslim Web site, got a frantic call from her. "She was upset," Mr. Amanullah recalls. He says Ms. Spellberg told him the novel "made fun of Muslims and their history," and asked him to warn Muslims.

In an interview, Ms. Spellberg told me the novel is a "very ugly, stupid piece of work." The novel, for example, includes a scene on the night when Muhammad consummated his marriage with Aisha: "the pain of consummation soon melted away. Muhammad was so gentle. I hardly felt the scorpion's sting. To be in his arms, skin to skin, was the bliss I had longed for all my life."

Says Ms. Spellberg: "I walked through a metal detector to see 'Last Temptation of Christ,'" the controversial 1980s film adaptation of a novel that depicted a relationship between Jesus and Mary Magdalene. "I don't have a problem with historical fiction. I do have a problem with the deliberate misinterpretation of history. You can't play with a sacred history and turn it into soft core ****ography."

After he got the call from Ms. Spellberg, Mr. Amanullah dashed off an email to a listserv of Middle East and Islamic studies graduate students, acknowledging he didn't "know anything about it [the book]," but telling them, "Just got a frantic call from a professor who got an advance copy of the forthcoming novel, 'Jewel of Medina' -- she said she found it incredibly offensive." He added a write-up about the book from the Publishers Marketplace, an industry publication.

The next day, a blogger known as Shahid Pradhan posted Mr. Amanullah's email on a Web site for Shiite Muslims -- "Hussaini Youth" -- under a headline, "upcoming book, 'Jewel of Medina': A new attempt to slander the Prophet of Islam."

Two hours and 28 minutes after that, another person by the name of Ali Hemani proposed a seven-point strategy to ensure "the writer withdraws this book from the stores and apologise all the muslims across the world."
Meanwhile back in New York City, Jane Garrett, an editor at Random House's Knopf imprint, dispatched an email on May 1 to Knopf executives, telling them she got a phone call the evening before from Ms. Spellberg (who happens to be under contract with Knopf to write "Thomas Jefferson's Qur'an.")

"She thinks there is a very real possibility of major danger for the building and staff and widespread violence," Ms. Garrett wrote. "Denise says it is 'a declaration of war . . . explosive stuff . . . a national security issue.' Thinks it will be far more controversial than the satanic verses and the Danish cartoons. Does not know if the author and Ballantine folks are clueless or calculating, but thinks the book should be withdrawn ASAP." ("The Jewel of Medina" was to be published by Random House's Ballantine Books.)

That day, the email spread like wildfire through Random House, which also received a letter from Ms. Spellberg and her attorney, saying she would sue the publisher if her name was associated with the novel. On May 2, a Ballantine editor told Ms. Jones's agent the company decided to possibly postpone publication of the book.

On a May 21 conference call, Random House executive Elizabeth McGuire told the author and her agent that the publishing house had decided to indefinitely postpone publication of the novel for "fear of a possible terrorist threat from extremist Muslims" and concern for "the safety and security of the Random House building and employees."

All this saddens me. Literature moves civilizations forward, and Islam is no exception. There is in fact a tradition of historical fiction in Islam, including such works as "The Adventures of Amir Hamza," an epic on the life of Muhammad's uncle. Last year a 948-page English translation was published, ironically, by Random House.

And, for all those who believe the life of the prophet Muhammad can't include stories of lust, anger and doubt, we need only read the Quran (18:110) where, it's said, God instructed Muhammad to tell others: "I am only a mortal like you."

Ms. Nomani, a former Wall Street Journal reporter, is the author of "Standing Alone: An American Woman's Struggle for the Soul of Islam" (HarperOne, 2006).

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121797979078815073.html?mod=djemEditorialPage

[Qandil]

wellcome to the new world mate, dude you cant write about Muhamad even on this website, i have few friends who have been banned on this website for speaking their mind, i feel sorry for what so called "the free world"

[Heinemann]

I propose a world wide laugh at Muhammad day.

[btdown]

edited...12345

[Mu-Meson]

This time, the instigator of the trouble wasn't a radical Muslim cleric, but an American academic.

:roll:
The words and deeds of these two kinds of people are indistinguishable from each other at times.

[Winger]

wellcome to the new world mate, dude you cant write about Muhamad even on this website, i have few friends who have been banned on this website for speaking their mind, i feel sorry for what so called "the free world"

How and where you speak has as much to do with what you speak. With ultimate power comes ultimate responsibility.

Free doesn't mean free to do whatever you'd like. Its a forum, not a free-speech venue.

Hope that clears things up a bit.

[Abolith]

wellcome to the new world mate, dude you cant write about Muhamad even on this website, i have few friends who have been banned on this website for speaking their mind, i feel sorry for what so called "the free world"

you can write anything you want about Muhammad on this website, so long as your respectful of the religion and aren't trying to start a flame war. same goes for any religion, of course this is a private site thus the whole free speech thing doesn't apply.

[Hollis]

wellcome to the new world mate, dude you cant write about Muhamad even on this website, i have few friends who have been banned on this website for speaking their mind, i feel sorry for what so called "the free world"


Maybe your friends had as much situational awareness and common sense as as you, NONE. As others have pointed out to you, this is a contracted service, so re-read the rules. If you feel that you can not post within the rules, you are FREE to go just as you were when you FREELY agreed to follow those rules. Or... does your word mean anything? If your not old enough to understand what a contractual agreement is to too immature to honor your own agreement, let me know.

[sikh_warrior]

write whatever anyone wants to write, but no disrespect to any one or any religion.

[Albatross]

Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed

now what bitches?

[The Balkan]

Oh ****! Your post gonna set off WW3!!!!!'


SOMEONE DELETE IT QUICK!!!!

[helomech]

Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed

now what bitches?

You're such a rebel

p-)

[Polygon]

Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed
Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed

now what bitches?


.... And in other news, mass rioting broke out across the Middle East due to a certain internet MP.net forum member writing Mohammed over and over again in a post.

[The Dane]

the pain of consummation soon melted away. Muhammad was so gentle. I hardly felt the scorpion's sting. To be in his arms, skin to skin, was the bliss I had longed for all my life

Some how i really doubt that any 9 year old girl would think that....

[Ulytau]

There is serious research about age issue and not 9 years old :)..



First want speak about Freedom of Speech..

I wish expert people about this issues speak for solving problems in a platform also about will be really interesting but ''South Park = The Cartoon Wars'' explainin everything about freedom of speech..

But we need to remember every people have sensitivity..

I hope experts interest to do something about dialogue between people..

@ Qandil;

This topic can explain everything i think;

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1554

Of course Free World but there will be anarchy without rules too ;)

[The Balkan]

Some how i really doubt that any 9 year old girl would think that....

9 is debatable.

The other thing is it was normal for girls to marry really young there and then. So nobody saw it as anything wrong. Other places in the world done the same. ****, even today theres 13 year olds getting married. Most of us today are shocked by it at least alittle but not then. It's their culture, so whateva.

[ColinP]

9 is debatable.

The other thing is it was normal for girls to marry really young there and then. So nobody saw it as anything wrong. Other places in the world done the same. ****, even today theres 13 year olds getting married. Most of us today are shocked by it at least alittle but not then. It's their culture, so whateva.

Well it made sense when most people only lived till 35-40, not to mention the high rate of death at childbirth.

To be fair to Muhammad he was the first to codify any laws for the protection of Arab woman. Also consider how independent his first wife was and how feisty Aishah was I would say that he liked strong woman. It's also my belief that he was in a struggle with tribalism and ultimately lost and Islam was absorbed into tribal custom. In fact most of Islam’s sacred rituals pre-date Islam formation and were added in to gain acceptance.

[Fargin]

I'm actually on the same page as Qandil.

You must always weigh your words to suit your enviroment. Call it self censur or self moderation. If you speak your mind unfiltered around strangers you will cause controversy and compromize or polute your message.

If you mess with religion, you'll engage a hole institution, with everything that follows: From the logical to the shrill and deluded. Freedom of speech has also taken on a roll of religion with moderate and radical guardians. The author must realize the climate she's operating in, just as her publisher did.

[The Dane]

Islam will die as communication and enlightment covers the world...

[Heinemann]

The other thing is it was normal for girls to marry really young there and then. So nobody saw it as anything wrong.

Then why was Abu Bakr so shocked when Muhammad demanded his daughter at the age of 6? This was not a cultural norm it was just Muhammad being alittle ******ly impatiant.

[Heinemann]

In fact most of Islam’s sacred rituals pre-date Islam formation and were added in to gain acceptance.

Although I don't agree with the rest of your post, I do agree with this. Many of the rituals and costumes that Muslims perform today on a daily basis, have pre Islamic pagan origins.

[Heinemann]

Of course Free World but there will be anarchy without rules too ;)

Muslims need to accept criticism of Muhammad. The way some Muslims react when someones says something about him its as if Muhammad is their ilah.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Whats the go with the Crusade you are waging Calane?

[Calanen]

There is serious research about age issue and not 9 years old :)..



Any serious research would show, it is accurate. It is Al Gore would say, an 'inconvenient truth' for Islam, that is embarassing for Muslims in the West.


Sahih Bukhari

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151:


Narrated 'Aisha:
I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

Sahih Muslim

Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234:


Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

Sahih Bukhari, Book 58:

Book 008, Number 3310:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Book 008, Number 3311:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.

Sunan Dawud

Book 41, Number 4915:
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.

Book 41, Number 4917:

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:

When we came to Medina, the women came to me when I was playing on the swing, and my hair were up to my ears. They brought me, prepared me, and decorated me. Then they brought me to the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) and he took up cohabitation with me, when I was nine.

[black mamba]

there's nothing embarrassing abt his marrying a nine your old. he did it. plain and simple. cuz it was acceptable.

[Qandil]

Maybe your friends had as much situational awareness and common sense as as you, NONE. As others have pointed out to you, this is a contracted service, so re-read the rules. If you feel that you can not post within the rules, you are FREE to go just as you were when you FREELY agreed to follow those rules. Or... does your word mean anything? If your not old enough to understand what a contractual agreement is to too immature to honor your own agreement, let me know.
Thanx for your "Awareness" and "common sense" comments, that was very nice of you to educate me mate, but as you see the "Free" and the "Respect" you talking about has a very broad meaning bro, anything that certain ppl on this website dosnt like, it will be banned on the spot, and you know what I am talking about. But thanx anyway , it was nice that someone cares about how old I am and my level of understanding, good luck...

[The Balkan]

Then why was Abu Bakr so shocked when Muhammad demanded his daughter at the age of 6? This was not a cultural norm it was just Muhammad being alittle ******ly impatiant.

Again, I don't care who told you what. It was normal at the time for the culture (Bedouins). Seriosly what you're questioning here is historical fact. They married very young girls.

And just to show you obviosly don't know anything about it, I'll point out that Aisha was already promised to another man (Jubayr ibn Mutim), even before Muhammad came along. That was cancelled however for various reasons and she went with Muhammed. So much for being shocked about Muhammed then.

Go ahed look it up.

Aisha is a very important figure.

[Heinemann]

Again, I don't care who told you what.

Subliminally you are trying to defend Muhammad by saying it was a normal thing within the society at the time. But you still have not explained why Abu Bakr, Aisha's father, was so shocked when Muhammad demanded baby Aisha.

But even if it was normal which it obviously was not, Muslims today are commanded within the Quran to follow the example (3:31) of Muhammad and yes today we see little girls being married off to older sunnah abiding Muslim men. So by excusing this deplorable behavior you are allowing pedophilia to continue.

[The Balkan]

Subliminally you are trying to defend Muhammad by saying it was a normal thing within the society at the time. But you still have not explained why Abu Bakr, Aisha's father, was so shocked when Muhammad demanded baby Aisha.

But even if it was normal which it obviously was not, Muslims today are commanded within the Quran to follow the example (3:31) of Muhammad and yes today we see little girls being married off to older sunnah abiding Muslim men. So by excusing this deplorable behavior you are allowing pedophilia to continue.

Dude...why did you ignore the rest of the post which was undeniable proof you were wrong?

Read again.

And just to show you obviosly don't know anything about it, I'll point out that Aisha was already promised to another man (Jubayr ibn Mutim), even before Muhammad came along. That was cancelled however for various reasons and she went with Muhammed. So much for being shocked about Muhammed then.

Go ahed look it up.

And btw tons of other cultures today marry away young girls as well. It's not some suffering to them, if it's normal in their society. They mature sooner, because everything happens sooner. That's the standard to them.

[Heinemann]

The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry." Bukhari 7.62.18 (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.018)


Face it Balkan your trying to defend a sicko.


I'll point out that Aisha was already promised to another man (Jubayr ibn Mutim), even before Muhammad came along. That was cancelled however for various reasons and she went with Muhammed.

LMAO

[The Balkan]

The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry." Bukhari 7.62.18 (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.018)


Face it Balkan your trying to defend a sicko.



LMAO


Once again, all you need to do is ask anyone here or look it up. In fact ask Calanen if what I said about her already being promised to another man (Jubayr ibn Mut'im) before Muhammed is true. Now he wouldn't lie and defend Muhammad would he now? Since you obvisoly can't accept a historical fact from me, since I'm lying idiot.

Second that quote doesn't in any way show him being shocked about her age. And why would he be when he already promised her to someone else before that, like I just said.

So no I'm not defending him, I'm stating a fact and you can do with that fact what you will. It was normal in Bedouin culture and she was already promised to someone else before Muhammad.

If you can't comprehend or accept that, your problem.

Good day sir p-)

[Heinemann]

First provide a Sahih narration for your quote just as I have done.

Abu Bakr revered Muhammad, he accepted him as a man of God, but his reaction to Muhammads lustful desires for Aisha was "But I am your brother."

Obviously he was trying to find an excuse not to give this man his child. Otherwise he would have offered her up gladely.

[The Balkan]

First provide a Sahih narration for your quote just as I have done.

Abu Bakr revered Muhammad, he accepted him as a man of God, but his reaction to Muhammads lustful desires for Aisha was "But I am your brother."

Obviously he was trying to find an excuse not to give this man his child. Otherwise he would have offered her up gladely.

Asking Calanen, the number one crusader against Jihad and radical islam isn't enough proof?

But here's some links. Alot in case some aren't valid to you.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/prepubescent.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubayr_ibn_Mut'im
http://dictionary.sensagent.com/Jubayr%20ibn%20Mut'im/en-en/
http://www.answers.com/topic/jubayr-ibn-mut-im
http://www.mb-soft.com/believe/txh/aisha.htm
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Aisha


Seriosly just type in the name Jubayr ibn Mutim into google.

[Heinemann]

Seriosly just type in the name Jubayr ibn Mutim into google.

Dont waste my time kid, provide me with the narrations don't give me websites or ask me to go to other people.

[Calanen]

Asking Calanen, the number one crusader against Jihad and radical islam isn't enough proof?


What are you asking me?

[The Balkan]

What are you asking me?



Once again, all you need to do is ask anyone here or look it up. In fact ask Calanen if what I said about her already being promised to another man (Jubayr ibn Mut'im) before Muhammed is true. Now he wouldn't lie and defend Muhammad would he now? Since you obvisoly can't accept a historical fact from me, since I'm lying idiot.



woot


Holla.

[Calanen]

In fact ask Calanen if what I said about her already being promised to another man (Jubayr ibn Mut'im) before Muhammed is true. Now he wouldn't lie and defend Muhammad would he now? Since you obvisoly can't accept a historical fact from me, since I'm lying idiot.



That's indeed the case.

For me I dont care a lot whether Mohammed had *** with 9 year old girls. It only matters today if people use it as a justification for marrying underage girls, which regrettably happens.

[The Balkan]

I agree, it shouldn't be allowed today. This isn't Bedouin culture.

[signatory]

I just realized there's a ham in Mohammed.

How offensive.

[Ulytau]

Dont waste my time kid, provide me with the narrations don't give me websites or ask me to go to other people.

he is not wasting your time..

You askin questions and he givin answer to you with usin sources..

and about pagan issue..Its all about cultural background not about paganism..Christianism have similar things too and same for some cults..

[black mamba]

one of your links is so biased. it states that the Prophet's wives were confined to the house afer his death and were not allowed to go out.

that's not true. many of them did. and using the example that it has used, of hazrat aisha, she even lead an army against the prophet's own cousin, Ali and took part in politics.

[The Balkan]

one of your links is so biased. it states that the Prophet's wives were confined to the house afer his death and were not allowed to go out.

that's not true. many of them did. and using the example that it has used, of hazrat aisha, she even lead an army against the prophet's own cousin, Ali and took part in politics.

All I was showing is that the guy I mentioned existed since he didn't belive he did. If there's some other info on that page that you don't agree with, I can't help that.

[black mamba]

no, wasnt a point against you. was generally stating that for others on this forum cuz then they were gonna say : "see? muhammad held them captive even after his death"....

sorry if it seemed as if i was making a point against you....i know what you meant when you posted those links

[The Balkan]

no, wasnt a point against you. was generally stating that for others on this forum cuz then they were gonna say : "see? muhammad held them captive even after his death"....

sorry if it seemed as if i was making a point against you....i know what you meant when you posted those links

No problem.

[Salman]

Have anyone here noticed how certain forum members go on a personal crusade against something and keep nagging and posting threads exclusively against that "something"?

In Calanens case it's Islam.......There is like what? 1 billion people who are "muslims"....it's not even a challange to dig up some dirt about some muslims doing this or some group doing that....hell if you dig deep enough you will find dirt on the mormons!

But Calanen, let me ask you something. What is your overall point? What is your goal with all of this?

[IronFinn]

"the pain of consummation soon melted away. Muhammad was so gentle. I hardly felt the scorpion's sting. To be in his arms, skin to skin, was the bliss I had longed for all my life."

This made me feel really sick. Eve it had been a habit back those days I feel it is discusting to write as it would be ok to have *** with a 9 year old.