Crime-ridden Arkansas town expands 24-hour curfew, ACLU objects

[therifleman]

HELENA-WEST HELENA, Ark. — Officers armed with military rifles have been stopping and questioning passers-by in a neighborhood plagued by violence that's been under a 24-hour curfew for a week.
On Tuesday, the Helena-West Helena City Council voted 9-0 to allow police to expand that program into any area of the city, despite a warning from a lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union of Arkansas that the police stops were unconstitutional.

Police Chief Fred Fielder said the patrols have netted 32 arrests since they began last week in a 10-block neighborhood in this small town on the banks of the Mississippi River long troubled by poverty. The council said those living in the city want the random shootings and drug-fueled violence to stop, no matter what the cost.

"Now if somebody wants to sue us, they have an option to sue, but I'm fairly certain that a judge will see it the way the way the citizens see it here," Mayor James Valley said. "The citizens deserve peace, that some infringement on constitutional rights is OK and we have not violated anything as far as the Constitution."

The area under curfew, in what used to be a West Helena neighborhood, sits among abandoned homes and occupied residences in disrepair.
White signs on large blue barrels warn those passing by that the area remains under curfew by order of Mayor James Valley. The order was scheduled to end at 3 p.m. Tuesday, but Valley said the city council's vote would allow police to have the same powers across Helena-West Helena.

Among the curfew operation's arrests, 10 came from felony charges, including the arrest of two people carrying both drugs and weapons, Fielder said. The police chief said the officers in the field carry military-style M-16 or M-4 rifles, some equipped with laser sights. Other officers carry short-barrel shotguns. Many dealing crack cocaine and marijuana in the city carry pistols and AK-47 assault rifles, he said.

"We've had people call us, expressing concern for their children," Fielder said. "They had to sleep on the floor, because of stray bullets."

Fielder said officers had not arrested anyone for violating the curfew, only questioned people about why they were outside. Those without good answers or acting nervously get additional attention, Fielder said.

However, such stops likely violate residents' constitutional rights to freely assemble and protections against unreasonable police searches, said Holly ****son, a lawyer for the ACLU of Arkansas who addressed the council at its packed Tuesday meeting. Because of that, ****son said any convictions coming from the arrests likely would be overturned.



Article continued here:
http://www.daytondailynews.com/hp/content/shared-gen/ap/National/Arkansas_Town_Curfew.html

[lt tahoe]

Holy crap! Laser sights! They mean business!

[CMNot]

24 hour curfew? As in, stay in, all day?

Land of the free my arse. Personally, if I was American, this kind of crap would really ****ing irk me. Especially if I had served to protect my fellow citizens "freedom".


infringement on constitutional rights is OK and we have not violated anything as far as the ConstitutionAn infringement is a violation, so which one is it?

[rwak9]

This can't be good, and I'm worried about the precedent this sets.

[Polygon]

Yeah, this sounds pretty frightening to say the least.

[el borracho]

It sounds like living there day-to-day is pretty frightening. As much as I hate to see authorities infringe upon citizens' rights, it sounds like in this case the citizens welcome it if it keeps them safer. I believe a similar thing happened in DC and it wasn't as welcome by the local population.

[Bia]

24 hour curfew? As in, stay in, all day?

Land of the free my arse. Personally, if I was American, this kind of crap would really ****ing irk me. Especially if I had served to protect my fellow citizens "freedom".

An infringement is a violation, so which one is it?

You're likely being too litteral here.
I'm sure those with jobs and legitimate errands can easily move about.

This is likely to the grown men that walk around all day living with some hosebag supporting them and or working while the worthless douchebag hangs out in the hood wit his boys yo.

I have seen it many times.... crappy neighborhood and all the working age men hang out on corners and porches and in the driveway hooting at passing females and serving up crack/weed/meth/anything to not actually work.

America is great... so many badmouth it with stereotypes.....but it's still... the place more people on the planet want to live in than any other place.....that speaks for itself.

[Calanen]

24 hour curfew? What if you wanted to go for a walk? That's a bit harsh. Constitutional or not, it demonstrates desperation.

[shocker1]

So is this a surge? McCain has been advocating these types of law enforcement activities. Saying tactics employed by US troops in Iraq could be used here. I posted the article in the McCain rant thread a while back.
http://militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3436825&postcount=208


Mayor James Valley said. "The citizens deserve peace, that some infringement on constitutional rights is OK and we have not violated anything as far as the Constitution."My God, he must be willing to give up some Liberty for Freedom. Pure double speak.

[Dan2004]

So is this a surge? McCain has been advocating these types of law enforcement activities. Saying tactics employed by US troops in Iraq could be used here. I posted the article in the McCain rant thread a while back.

I'd support that kind of action. It's precisely what this country needs......

[shocker1]

I'd support that kind of action. It's precisely what this country needs......
Careful what you support, it tends to grow in secret like mold. So what war torn cities are on your list? Do you expect roses and kisses as thanks for all the security?

[wildcat]

this is what happens to a town in Arkansas when they open the first dentist in the town

[Dan2004]

So what war torn cities are on your list?

I don't know about the rest of the country, but the first on my list would probably be Cincinnati, Ohio. Second would probably be our capital, Columbus. Though the second could be part Law Enforcement operation, and part PR mission, similar to the Vigipirate operations in France.

Both could be carried out by the Ohio National Guard and the Ohio Military Reserve working in conjunction with each other.

[Calanen]

I don't know about the rest of the country, but the first on my list would probably be Cincinnati, Ohio. Second would probably be our capital, Columbus. Though the second could be part Law Enforcement operation, and part PR mission, similar to the Vigipirate operations in France.

Both could be carried out by the Ohio National Guard and the Ohio Military Reserve working in conjunction with each other.

Or even the Federal government with US troops under the Insurrection Act, if things get bad enough:

(1) The President may employ the armed forces, including the National Guard in Federal service, to--

(A) restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition in any State or possession of the United States, the President determines that-- (i) domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order; and (ii) such violence results in a condition described in paragraph

(2); or (B) suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy if such insurrection, violation, combination, or conspiracy results in a condition described in paragraph (2).

(2) A condition described in this paragraph is a condition that--

(A) so hinders the execution of the laws of a State or possession, as applicable, and of the United States within that State or possession, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State or possession are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or (B) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.

This overrides the Posse Comitatus Act.

[Delta_Charlie08]

well the news item said the citizens wanted the place cleaned up.... how come the criminals' rights are being noticed while the rest of the law abiding citizens got stomped on? if the mayor thinks he's doing right then so be it... he got elected right?

[Eztyga]

You're likely being too litteral here.
I'm sure those with jobs and legitimate errands can easily move about.


So that will require some sort of chit then...

"Sir, I need to see your papers to cross this Curfew Checkpoint. If you fail to do so I will have to issue an infringement...or shoot you."

:cantbeli:

Ezy

[Dominique]

I'm trying to figure out how they think they can lawfully enforce random stops, or a 24 hour curfew. I see a lot of these cases getting thrown out. And I'm not even going to get into you guys thinking this is a great idea. And the NG needs to stay as far away from this as possible.

[INAT]

Anything in the name of safety and protection.


Is Possi Comitatus going to be abused because that seems to be the next step here.

[Dominique]

I'm a Deputy Sheriff in the civilian world, and I have some serious issues with the way this is being implemented. There are ways you can crack down on crime, without turning whole neighborhoods into mini police states. I'm really shocked this hasn't gotten more coverage.

[Power_serj]

Honestly if it's as bad as they say, "kids had to sleep on the floor for fear of stray bullets" and such, it sounds like criminals are running the streets. Depending on how bad the crime is, this may be justified. Based on what I read, I will actually go ahead and say it was justified. This seems to be the only way for law enforcement to take over the streets. As long as this 24 hour curfew does not pass more than one week. If there is a night curfew for the following week, it can also be justified.

[Polygon]

There are ways you can crack down on crime, without turning whole neighborhoods into mini police states. I'm really shocked this hasn't gotten more coverage.

Yeah, that's how I feel, it seems a bit unreal hearing this being implemented at the moment.

[graureiter]

Every once in a while I find myself on the same side as the ACLU, but usually not for long.

As far as the Cincinnati Ohio area is concerned, at least in my neighborhood the National Guard is not needed. Persons trying to shoot up this neighborhood would have to dodge anything from 22s to 54 caliber musketballs. With the odd broadhead arrow or crossbow bolt thrown in.

[Laconian]

I have some serious issues with the way this is being implemented. There are ways you can crack down on crime, without turning whole neighborhoods into mini police states. I'm really shocked this hasn't gotten more coverage.

x2. My question is why was the situation allowed to detrerioriate to the point that this type of thing was even considered, let alone implemented.

[AmericanAirman]

It seems like many people are jumping to conclusions and taking ideas too far.

It was voted upon by representatives of the people, who voted them into that position to do this.

It seems like the citizens agree this is needed. Someone made the comment earlier about the rights of the criminal and not the rights of the citizens.

Rights and Security are constantly on opposite ends of a balance. Want more of one you sacrifice the other.

[CMNot]

It was voted upon by representatives of the people, who voted them into that position to do this.

Your points are fair.

But...

If a democratically elected Government takes your right to arm yourself through a democratic vote, then is that OK - after all, they are the representatives of the people?

[szr]

x2. My question is why was the situation allowed to detrerioriate to the point that this type of thing was even considered, let alone implemented.
I wish we had someone from Arkansas on here that could shed some light on this for us, because as it stands right now, this just sounds like one more poorly conceived policing strategy from a city which apparently hasn't seen much success with its previous strategies.

[Bia]

So that will require some sort of chit then...

"Sir, I need to see your papers to cross this Curfew Checkpoint. If you fail to do so I will have to issue an infringement...or shoot you."

:cantbeli:

EzyNo... just a little common sense. Most law enforcement officers I have known/met... can easily figure out the obvious.

Like someone said... when children have to sleep in the bathtub to ease the fear of a stray bullet ripping through the house... extreme measures might follow.

Also.... +Rep Laconian I agree.... why/how was it allowed to get this bad to begin with is what is disturbing.



Let me EDIT to add... I am not in favor of this tactic... I am simply suggesting this isnt some huge Nazi like tactic as suggested or the beginning of the end to our freedoms. Just a difficult task towards a difficult situation.