Spec Ops Organisation rating

[FallenAngel]

Ok Guys....lets PLEASE and try and keep it civil...but out of all the spec. ops units out there...which do you think are the top five?

From all I've read and heard...here's what I would say:

1- British SAS
2- Delta/ DevGru
3- British SBS
4-German KSK
5- US Special Forces (Green Berets)

anyone got anything different?

[Alleycat]

Oh sure SAS again, its just because there the most publicised. :D
Im going to have to say

1- DevGru/ SEALs/ Delta

Thats all I can say. I guess I'm an American pig.

[OzMan]

Basically agree (As you can tell I'm biast towards CT units):

1. British SAS Counter-Revolutionary Warfare Wing
2. US Navy SEALs
3. US Air Force Special Tactics
4. German GSG9
5. Royal Marine Commandos

[96B]

Guys dont get me wrong, the Brits are awesome at what they do... however with what they pioneered, we perfected :D You've also got to give some props to the Israeli boys which you dont hear much about either.

1. Delta/DEVGRU
2. British SAS

[JiJoMacLE45]

Looking at this from an American standpoint, it's hard to make a list and compare one unit to another. To say that the Navy SEALs are better than Army Special Forces, is really irrelevant. While it is common to compare these units, they really train for and handle different mission profiles. Special Forces' bread and butter is the foreign internal defense mission. What they did in Afghanistan, going in and linking up with guerilla fighters and wreaking havoc, was what Special Forces were created for. Now the Special Forces also train for and are fully capable of handling direct action and special reconnaissance missions, which they have, i.e. Panama and the Gulf War. Then you take the SEALs, more of a direct action and reconnaissance unit with an emphasis on the maritime environment, though they do not need water to be successful (they've done a hell of a job in landlocked Afghanistan). Take the Rangers, essentially a crack airborne unit, who specialize in doing a maximum amount of damage in a minimum amount of time. Taking down airfields, large scale assaults and raids, these are the types of things Army Rangers do best. While SF and blue water SEALs do have counterterrorism capability, this is really the realm of units like Delta and DevGroup who train extensively for these types of jobs. British SAS and German KSK are closer in tasking to Delta than Army Special Forces. Each of these units fits into the SOCOM plan. While they train for and can handle the types of operations the other units specialize in, it is not always a good idea. I point to the Paitilla Airfield Raid in Panama to make my case. The SEALs accomplished the goal of the operation, destroying Noriega's Lear Jet, but four SEALs were killed and eight more wounded. To use the old cliche, it's like comparing apples and oranges.

[OzMan]

Yes, well of course you can't compare them. I've posted on this site several times saying that you can't compare units and I know exactly what you're saying. I'll admit I wasn't comparing them per se, but in a biast way (like I said), saying which ones are my favorites. My cousin is a Green Beret and I've tried to figure out what he's doing or where he is and we assume he's in Afghanistan because we got a call from my uncle saying that all HALO qualified operators were being deployed. I highly doubt that they HALO'd into the Phillipines, so I'm guessing he's in Afghanistan and he was one of the ones training the Northern Alliance. But I don't know; we haven't heard directly from him in years. So all in all, I hear ya.

[Alleycat]

Yeah my cousin is an army Ranger, he is on alert and will most likely be shipped out to Iraq within the next few weeks. And I would have to say he is a kick ass kid and I'm sure he could complete any task he might be given.

[96B]

I totally agree with you guys, and needless to say, I have the most respect for anybody that puts on a uniform and serves their country proudly as do our men and women of the armed forces. The country would not be what it is today without the military's contribution to the foundation of our great nation. God bless America and all her allies!

[Kitsune]

OkOk You wanted it... Here's the true list:

1. German KSK

2. GSG 9

Forget the Rest !

And to Semperfidelis: WE perfected it !

SO! Hmf!!! That's That !!!!! Hrrrrrr !!!!!


Lol.....

But to be honest... its a typical question that comes up here...
Which unit is the best? Well the 2 criteria seem to me:
1. Selection
2. Broadness and thoroughness of training

The military units said to be world class in this are as far as i know:
British SAS, British SBS, German KSK, American 1 SFOD (if they really exist lol), American SeALs, Australian SASR, NewZealand NZSAS,Russian Alpha Group, Israeli Sayeret Matkal, Polish GROM...


Specific Hostage Rescue and Counterterrorist Units:
German GSG 9 , French GIGN, Austrian GEK, Russian OMON...

Units like Rangers are not on par with the named units of the
first group... a typical Ranger is tough yeah... but he is also 19 years old... whereas it takes 3 years to train (for example) an KSK operator.

But those military top units? Who is best? Well... all are more or less modeled after British SAS... many crosstrain with each other... share experience... they are a much closer knit group than one might think. If one unit finds a trick to significantly heighten efficiency... sooner or later the others will use it as well. And did you know that genetically a brit, a german and an american (even non white) are virtually identical? So the differences aren't that great...
I have heard that the question "who is best" doesn't even come up with those guys (and nowadays girls in some units). They all try to get the job done...
Sorry for being so long winded...(It's your fault if you have read this up to this point here) But thats more or less my opinion too...








...but KSK is still the best.... p-)

[Chris]

in my opinion no one will be able to make a list. Why? because many missions are top secret and no one knows how good they performed. Navy seals sure are good, but every kiddie thinks they are the best because of the load of heroic navy seals movies, same to delta force.

[sas]

1 SAS
2 SBS
3 DELTA FORCE
4 US SEAL

:|

[sas]

Guys dont get me wrong, the Brits are awesome at what they do... however with what they pioneered, we perfected :D You've also got to give some props to the Israeli boys which you dont hear much about either.

1. Delta/DEVGRU
2. British SAS


what a load of **** delta force are bloody joke

[96B]

Im sorry I didnt realize you were an expert on their top secret missions... also I'd really like to see you tell that to a Delta operator or SEAL. I wouldnt call running 50+ miles or bench pressing 500lbs a joke. I'd also like for you to list reasons why they are such a joke with the exception of missions that didnt go as planned because of bad intel. No offense to the more mature audience but it annoys me when people imply that because the Brits trained everybody, that makes them the best and also I find it funny how the British special forces use Colts instead of Enfields.

[Minjin]

I think it is kinda arrogant to rank them, not having seen any of them in action first hand.

By what I have HEARD, (No firsthand knowledge so don't bother flaming me) I would say...

1-SAS, SEALS, KSK......
2-GIGN, SBS, Delta, JTF2......
3-Others.

Just an opinion, of course ;)

[seventy6er]

I wouldnt call (...) bench pressing 500lbs a joke.

he he. funny guy. rofl

as someone earlier already said: no one of us can actually compare these units. we can only assume sth. although i'm german (and would like to see KSK on top :D ), i have to admit that the brits were the first, and the us boys got the most experience. and please don't forget the israelis, who have been fighting and struggling to defend themselves for years.

in my opinion, the US special forces set great store on tricked-out weapons and muscle-packed operators, whereas other units (like for example SAS) are trained and really skilled in improvising.

KSK is a very young unit which only has seen few action (compared to the US and british special units) but i think they are on a very high level too.

i got respect for every operator doing a great job in afghanistan or elsewhere, no matter if he's from the US, UK, canada, australia or germany.


cu 76er

[96B]

Just a note, when I say 500lbs I am referring to Richard Marcinko Cmdr SEAL Team 6. At his peak he was 190lbs and bench pressed 500 and I believe I read somewhere that he could hold his breath for something like just under 4 minutes.

[...]

Ask anybody what they bench and it will almost always be an exagerated answer. Also you should really make it a habit to not believe everything you read

[Silverado]

For just a fleeting moment I thought this was supposed to be a serious thread. rofl I mean really, how the hell can you lot rate various units who for the most part keep their operating procedures a closely guarded secret. What's next who can piss up a wall further Delta, SAS, SASR or KSK?

[Eric]

FallenAngel, I doubt that there is any way to keep topics like these civil. ;)

IMO, unless you've passed selection for any specops group, you don't have the right to judge. We're all biased to a point, and that clouds our judgement.

[Trigger]

Amen brother. Unless you've 'been there, done that' you have no way of knowing who the 'best' is. EVERY ONE OF THEM is the best, because they've conquered their own fear and gone beyond what they thought was humanly possible. So just be proud of them and aspire to have the same mental and physical toughness they have. I know I do.

[Chris]

bench pressing and holding the breath doesnt make a soldier some kind of super human, if you train a lot you can probably do the same. Every spec ops unit have the best they can get, otherwise it wouldnt be a special unit.

[SFOD-A]

1-22nd SAS
2-RMC SBS
3-1st SFOD-D
4-Special Forces Grous
5-Navy SEAL's

But the best SF unit in the world is that one you never heard about!

[Jack Mehoff]

I can't believe you put German KSK in there before Sayeret Matkal or Spetnaz.

United States, British, Israel and Russian special operations have more experience than anybody else.

[Trident-za]

bench pressing and holding the breath doesnt make a soldier some kind of super human, if you train a lot you can probably do the same. Every spec ops unit have the best they can get, otherwise it wouldnt be a special unit.

Good points. I highly doubt that there is any correlation whatsoever between benchpress/running speed/number of pullups etc with how proficient a soldier is when the bullets start flying.

As for the rest of the thread, I don't think there is any point in this voting thing. All special forces units are good at what they do....

One thing I've always wanted to ask, though: if we were going to do some sort of real comparison, would we "remove" all technology stuff first, since a gunship and/or laser guided missles are not available to all countries SF units, and aren't actually relevent to the quality of the special forces unit itself?

[Gordon]

I find it funny how the British special forces use Colts instead of Enfields.

Funny? Funny how, what exactly do you mean by funny here?

[Maverick77]

JTF2

[ChuckThunder]

Double post**

[ChuckThunder]

All are number 1 in their own regard. Terrorists are always in second place... ;)

[HELEX]

I find it funny how the British special forces use Colts instead of Enfields.

Funny? Funny how, what exactly do you mean by funny here?

I think its funny to use Colts at all when you can use something else.... :lol:

[Falco]

I find it funny how the British special forces use Colts instead of Enfields.

Funny? Funny how, what exactly do you mean by funny here?

I think its funny to use Colts at all when you can use something else.... :lol:

And I'm sure you're an expert at SF warfare.

[Hydro]

Of course special forces don't use Enfields, Enfields were dropped in the late 50's....oh wait, he means the L85A1...

[HELEX]

And I'm sure you're an expert at SF warfare.

At least as much as the Others posting here ;)

[Gordon]

I find it funny how the British special forces use Colts instead of Enfields.

Funny? Funny how, what exactly do you mean by funny here?

I think its funny to use Colts at all when you can use something else.... :lol:

Probably why they use the Diemaco C8 then.

[Ratamacue]

Is the forum going to drop back down into the unit comparison phase? I thought we were done with that ****.

[Gordon]

We were, but all the new guys who joined after we went through all that bollocks before don't know about it ...

[Hydro]

Is the forum going to drop back down into the unit comparison phase? I thought we were done with that ****.

We were, but now you've said it, MY SAS R GOIN 2 KIK YOUR DELTA FORECS ASS, N00B F4G!!!11 SBS WIL R0X0R NAVY SELAS!!1

rar.

;)

[Elendil]

This list is just based on the books I've read where others have worked with the group and gave their opinions. I think they're all superb.

1. Delta - most soldiers who have worked with them seem to think they're the best trained military unit in the world. You get what you pay for and they're budget is ...well, they get whatever they want.

2. SAS

3. DEVGRU

4. SBS

5. SEALS

I think it would be interesting to know the average age of the special operations forces around the world. I think the higher the average age the better the group. I think Delta operators avg. somewhere in the 30's.

[Ratamacue]

We were, but all the new guys who joined after we went through all that bollocks before don't know about it ...

Yeah, but FallenAngel isn't an FNG. I'd expect him to know better.

[Gordon]

True.

[ibstolidude]

Let the THREAD DIE!

[Huck Mucus]

The best of the best of the best:

http://www.theonion.com/onion3502/very_special_forces.html

[MaDuce]

The best of the best of the best:

http://www.theonion.com/onion3502/very_special_forces.html
rofl rofl OMG thats terrible

Lets face it this is a my country is better then yours thread. Different units are better then other at different things. In the end it could often end up depending on how lucky you are if you trained your hardest. Not much is known about thease organizations because they are not nationalistic glory hogging motherf*ckers like most in this forums memebers and don't gloat and brag. Anyways now for some fun facts.
-DevGru is more like a Navy SEALs all star team then a seperate unit.
-The best spec ops unit in history was formed by Geghis Kahn(forgot name of it) but they pwned

[mocking_loudly_died]

Who the f*ck bought this **** back?

[Haiw]

Sorry to bring this back, but these topics are always so ****ing retarded. First, most people who make lists often make lists that don't make any sense, or they just don't know **** about the units. Second, all the lists are just 'popularity votes'. I mean, take GROM for example. They're propably at the same skill level as they were before OIF, yet because they came in the spotlight there tataaaa they're on everyones list. It's just bull****. It's like saying 'which football team is best' when there wouldn't be any football competitions.

[obd]

If I needed a group of SF to go into a foreign nation and liason with the locals and start a militia force to wage war by proxy I would choose none other than American Green Berets........American Green Berets took the forefront in Afghanisntan by far, even though SAS participate to great deal of course, and US green berets really took the forefront in Iraq too.......... I hope not to get Brits saying things like "SAS was in Astan just as much". Yes I know, SAS was in A-stan too, but by far the biggest and most important actions were done by American Green Berets. All the major warlords hooked up with non other than US Green Berets..... I give you some examples:

General Abdul Rashid Dostum- A Team 595 Green Berets. Linkup up date: October 19, 2001, Insertion Location: south of Mazer-e-Sharrief. West of Konar Province.

General Fahim- A Team 555, (AKA: Tiger 01) nicknamed the "triple nickle". Link up date October 19, 2001. A team 555 was preceded by a few CIA agents who smoothed things over with Fahim......the CIA apparently has had "relations" with Fahim in the past. Insertion Location: 50 miles south of Mazer-e-Sharrief. Near Kapisa Province, also just north of Kabul near the city of Charikar. Eventualy credited with thousands of enemy KIA......

General Baryoli- A Team 585, codenamed Tiger 03. Link up date: October 20, 2001, one day after team 555. Location: Just south of Kunduz and Taloqan, Takhar Province, 50 miles east of Mazar-e-Sharif.

General Atta; A Team 534, codenamed Tiger 04. Link up date: November 2, 2001. Insertion location: Zard Kammar, 50 miles north of Ajbak in Samangan province.

Commander Khalili (an important Hazara leader)- A Team 553, codenamed Tiger 07. Link up date: October 31, 2001. Insertion Location: Bamian City, west of Charikar in central Oruzgan Provence.

General Daoud- A Team 586, codenamed TEXAS 11. Link up date: October 5, 2001. Insertion location: Dasht-e-Qaleh, just northeast of Kunduz.

Commander Ismail Khan- A Team 554, codenamed TEXAS 08. Link up date: November 11, 2001. Insertion location: West of Herat in far eastern Afghanistan in Herat Province. (The only special forces team from any nation able to succesfully infiltrate this econmically critical region)

General Naderi- A Team 532, codenamed COBRA 22. Link up date: Unknown. Insertion location: Intially Kabul, then a mountain village in Kayan and then to battle in Mazar...

Hamid KArzai (now interim leader of A-stan)- A Team 574, codenamed TEXAS 12. Link up date: November 14, 2001. Insertion location: Tarin Kowt, in Oruzgan province, dead center in the middle of Taliban stronghold territory of A-stan. Fought the famouse "Battle of Tarin Kowt" which killed over 800 Taliban soldiers and assured Karzai's loyalty for saving his village from Talib rape and plunder squads.....

General Sharzai- A Team 583. Code named TEXAS 17. Link up date: unknownInsertion location South of Kansahar near Pakistani border region.

There are many many more but my hands are really starting to hurt bad.......someone else take up the rest for me hehe...

But, I must say that my choice is not unbiased as I am an American and the biggest reason I wouldnt choose the SAS is because they are just to small a group...They dont have the numbers to send hundreds of commando's scattered around a large nation causing trouble........For example, and this was reported by British MoD, virtually the entire active duty SAS was sent to A-stan at one point and they still could not cover what American Green Berets easily covered..............

Not trying to bash to SAS. They are excellent men......and I wouldnt call them less skilled than anybody out there......but I think they need more money at the moment and need expansion...... I know Im beign bit of an armchair general but based on MoD reports, I think its fairly clear they need to expand in the wake of unprecedented demands upon them of a truly global scale............ The SAS should try to match closer the US numbers so they can keep up and make deployments to aid the war on terror...........

[James]

Ninjas!

[TriggerPuller]

MARDET-1 :D

[ibstolidude]

my dad, who can beat up your dad.

[bishop1]

Yeah, like someone said, its too ahrd to compare, most every Spec Ops unit has a different task than the other, SF (Green Berets) train to lead, train equip and lead indeginious forces, Rangers train as a light Infantry strike force, SAS specialize in hostage recovery, dynamic entry CT stuff, same as Delta pretty much. And when units are used for missions its not always because Powell or whoever likes them the most, its because theyre the closest or most ready at the time. Just my 2 cents.

[obd]

Here are some examples of US Green Beret actions and the Afghan leaders who they aided in the battle against the Taliban and Al Queda, slightly updated from my last post:

General Abdul Rashid Dostum- A Team 595, codenamed TIGER 02. Linkup up date: October 19, 2001, Insertion Location: south of Mazer-e-Sharrief. West of Konar Province. Released first known field report from any SF team in A-stan... Participated in battles that led to the fall of Mazar-e-Sharif.

General Fahim- A Team 555, codenamed TIGER 01...nicknamed the "triple nickle". Link up date October 19, 2001. A team 555 was preceded by a few CIA agents who smoothed things over with Fahim......the CIA apparently has had "relations" with Fahim in the past. Insertion Location: 50 miles south of Mazer-e-Sharrief. Near Kapisa Province, also just north of Kabul near the city of Charikar. Eventualy credited with thousands of enemy KIA...... PArticipated in numerouse battles including the attack on Afghanistan capital city of Kabul.

General Baryoli- A Team 585, codenamed Tiger 03. Link up date: October 20, 2001, one day after team 555. Location: Just south of Kunduz and Taloqan, Takhar Province, 50 miles east of Mazar-e-Sharif. Fougth at Pol-e-Khomri and eventually fought its way to Mazar where it participated in the fall of that major northeastern city... Captured Taliban General Mohammed Shah at Kunduz who said after his capture: "They [green berets] killed many of my men and we were afraid of them so I surrendered".

General Atta; A Team 534, codenamed Tiger 04. Link up date: November 2, 2001. Insertion location: Zard Kammar, 50 miles north of Ajbak in Samangan province. Fought the famous "Battle of Aq Kopruk" in which the A team slaughtered an entire formation of Taliban soldiers as General Atta watched from a ridge.. This was General Attas first experience with them and he was initially doubtful of the Green Berets skills...he would become one of the Green Berets greatest promoters after the battle. Atta was the one who came up with the myth of the American "death ray" and he would radio Taliban units for fun telling them he was aiming the death ray at them.........just before they exploded into pieces from a 2,000 lbs JDAM..

Commander Khalili (an important Hazara leader)- A Team 553, codenamed Tiger 07. Link up date: October 31, 2001. Insertion Location: Bamian City, west of Charikar in central Oruzgan Provence. Participated in famous "Battle of Foladi Canyon" which killed over 1,000 Taliban soldiers...

General Daoud- A Team 586, codenamed TEXAS 11. Link up date: October 5, 2001. Insertion location: Dasht-e-Qaleh, just northeast of Kunduz. Participated in assault on Taloqan. This A team would kill more enemy and destroy more equipment than ano other A team in Afghanistan. According to a team communiqu back to headquarters, between November 14-29, 2001 they kiled 2,139 enemy Talban, 4 ammo dumps, 12 tanks, 5 ZPU/ZSU, 3 BMP/BM 21, 51 trucks, 6 HQ buildings, 44 bunkers, 3 BTR 70/BRDM, 5 troop barracks, 7 mortar/heavy weapons positions...

Commander Ismail Khan- A Team 554, codenamed TEXAS 08. Link up date: November 11, 2001. Insertion location: West of Herat in far eastern Afghanistan in Herat Province. (The only special forces team from any nation able to succesfully infiltrate this econmically critical region). Fought alongside SAS troopers to help retake Qala-i-Jangi prison after uprising. Captured and interrogated the "American Taliban".

General Naderi- A Team 532, codenamed COBRA 22. Link up date: Unknown. Insertion location: Intially Pol-e-Khomri near Kabul, then a mountain village in Kayan and then to battle in Mazar...

Hamid KArzai (now interim leader of A-stan)- A Team 574, codenamed TEXAS 12. Link up date: November 14, 2001. Insertion location: Tarin Kowt, in Oruzgan province, dead center in the middle of Taliban stronghold territory of A-stan. Fought the famouse "Battle of Tarin Kowt" which killed over 800 Taliban soldiers and assured Karzai's loyalty for saving his village from Talib rape and plunder squads.....

General Sharzai- A Team 583. Code named TEXAS 17. Link up date: unknown. Insertion location: South of Kandahar near Pakistani border region. Not far north from the infamous Pakistani tribal town of Quetta, a favorite playground for arms smugglers, terrorists, and the CIA. Fought "Battle of Takteh-Pol. Captured Kandahar airport...

There are many many more but my hands are really starting to hurt bad.......someone else take up the rest for me hehe...

[bishop1]

The Hunt For Bin LAden was an awesome book, it had alot about the ODA teams in Afganistan, crazy that the few hundred Green Berets with Air Force CCTS were responsible for as many as 40,000 AQ deaths. Talk about force multiplyers.

[obd]

**** I selected "edit post". Dont know why it reposted it..jeez... Hood...fix your website!!!!! hah just kidding...probably my bad.

[throat warbler mangrove]

In my humble opinion--and experience--the unit that trains the longest as a team will win. The units that have their guys out training individually at high speed schools, and not training together in the jungle or desert, are setting themselves up for failure. "Hey Boss, I just heard about a school in South Africa on tracking three toed dik diks. Can I go?"

[cut]

This list is just based on the books I've read where others have worked with the group and gave their opinions. I think they're all superb.

1. Delta - most soldiers who have worked with them seem to think they're the best trained military unit in the world. You get what you pay for and they're budget is ...well, they get whatever they want.

2. SAS

3. DEVGRU

4. SBS

5. SEALS

I think it would be interesting to know the average age of the special operations forces around the world. I think the higher the average age the better the group. I think Delta operators avg. somewhere in the 30's.

that's funny I thought DEVGRU were SEALS



Who's Idea was it to bring back this kind of thread from the dead? I thought we were done with these and the type of posters/posts they attract.

[Huck Mucus]

throat warbler mangrove: What experience, you homo? Semper Fi ATL

[bishop1]

As far as i know, DEVGRU, is development group 6, which is what SEAL team 6 turned into, but i could wrong.

[throat warbler mangrove]

throat warbler mangrove: What experience, you homo? Semper Fi ATL

Humble experience, Devil Dog.

[Huck Mucus]

throat warbler mangrove:

5 more days (tax day) and it's been 24 years since discharge :cantbeli:

[SABER 2-3]

my dad, who can beat up your dad.

Oh yeah! Well my Mom can beat up your Dad!

[sethen]

I personally feel that the Army has the best SF organization. Rangers, Special Forces, Delta. The Army does the largest amount of SF schools, so I think the U.S. Army Spec. Ops is the best.

[Marsuitor]

I personally feel that the Army has the best SF organization. Rangers, Special Forces, Delta. The Army does the largest amount of SF schools, so I think the U.S. Army Spec. Ops is the best.

.... well, there might well be certain friendly inter-service rivalry, but i'm inclined to think that doesn't mean no communication goes on between units to exchange tactics and share experience. I can't foresee navy, AF or marines getting a load of wankers while the army get all the stable minded.
+ what the some other guy said about different units, different roles...
Why bother :roll: :roll:

[Ballistic]

LOL. :cantbeli: :D

[Marsuitor]

Btw, is this where i start going on about that list being tripe because no one put Norwegian SF in it?

According to a fair few young souls, they're the best in the world, but then again, posters of such are usually Norwegian themselves. Should pretty much apply for everyone compiling these sort of lists IMO.

[Apogeumus]

In opinion list "the best SpecOps" are stupid. It'd very hard to say with unit is the best. There are some SpecOps unit with we know very little about. They're some good know unit, like SAS, Delta, SASR. With in my opinion are big profesional. In real action some spec ops unit work together (like GROM and Seals in Um Qasr), so they must be on similar or the same level of skills. Because we don't know much about eastern SpecOps (with aren't the same like western unit) we can create list of the "best" western spec ops unit, but it won't be true list.
In my opinion polish JW 2305, better known as GROM is on similar level (sometime better, in some sort of equipmet) as Delta, SAS, Seal. Why I thing that? It's because a many years of cooperations and training with that unit. I heard from GROM soldiers (interview was in polish TV) that american commander of SpecOps with take part in Um Qasr battle said about poles something like "give this soldiers and I can go on every war". I heard that sometimes in Persian Gulf was some bad weather that only GROM martime squadron was working on the sea. Operation in Um Qasr wasn't only GROM succes in their history (official known), they captured in 1996 Slavko Dukmanovic in Eastern Slavonia (it was first war criminal captured on Balkans), they also captured some iraqis from deck (we don't know who it was). In one intervie, ex-GROM commander col. Roman Polko said that in american SpecOps base in Iraq, are beside american maps and flag painted on the wall also polish map and flag. There are also painted badges of three main Spec Ops unit serving in Irag: GROM, Navy Seals (I saw photo of this wall, but american soldiers covers third badges).
Why I write nothing about KSK, because I have small informations about it.
German GSG-9 is elite unit, but as I know, they are CT unit (on of the best, GROM were trained by them), not real SpecOps.

[mack pl]

For Poles the best SF unit will be always GROM, for germans KSK or GSG9, for french GIGN,1RPIMa etc. etc. I agree with Apogeumus, Its stupid question.Only people from this units(real commandos, not some "wanna be") know how good or how bad are those units.People like me on this forum(without any military experience) known **** about level of skills of this units.I think only people from SOF could say something about this.I talking about GROM because Im really proud of them, what they are doing in Iraq, and many people here will always talking good things about theirs national SF.So, its means nothing if someones wrote"ours SF are the best".Many units have the same level of skills,and we cannot say some are better...What we could compare, level of shooting skills, equpiment, guns etc.?Its stupid. I hope my post is clear(i drunk few beers).BTW Apogumus-you have very good site about GROM :) Regards.

[Apogeumus]

I agree with you Mack, I hope that my post is alsa clear (I drank today some wines and martini :) ).

Thanks Mack for nice word about my site :-) Regards

[mack pl]

No problemos senior :)BTW on my avatar are GROM boys :) Pozdro.

[tacticalmanta]

1. US Navy Seals
2. Israeli S13
3. Delta
4. Sayeret Matkal
5. RM SBS

FORMOSA, COMSUBIN, Commando Hubert, and several other Israeli and US air force units.

[Scrim]

Oh God here we go again..

1.SBS- Because I like their accents.
2.SAS- I read a book about them once by that Mcnabb bloke.
3. Force Recon - I was a Marine and theyve got the koolest camo.
4. US Army SF- Man those Green Berets are awesome looking.
5. German KSK- Germans make them HK guns so they must be good.

My list is right, you are all wrong.

[IDFM203]

Wow this again :roll:

Well I can get into it as well with all sorts of reasons for the Israeli S13 or Sayert Matkal or for Yamam or for etc.. , but hey why bother when all I have to do is bring the French Foreign Legion (http://www.frenchforeignlegion.org/database/data/dta057.html) opinions into this, I mean I cant see how anyone here can top their professional opinions ;) :D

Shalom :D

[Haiw]

Wow this again :roll:

Well I can get into it as well with all sorts of reasons for the Israeli S13 or Sayert Matkal or for Yamam or for etc.. , but hey why bother when all I have to do is bring the French Foreign Legion (http://www.frenchforeignlegion.org/database/data/dta057.html) opinions into this, I mean I cant see how anyone here can top their professional opinions ;) :D

Shalom :D
That list is...rediculous. (I'm not kidding)

Oh and Scrim you forgot Dutch Army SF KCT... they're definately up there because of their wooden shoes, tulp camo and special cheese rations. :D

[MEGR]

Where's DEVGRU?
I like the Army SOF the most (mainly because of their part in taking Afghanistan).. In all honesty, all but a few SOF around the world are good. They all train hard, and they all live on the edge.

[MaDuce]

RAINBOW IS THE BEST :lol:

[IDFM203]

Wow this again :roll:

Well I can get into it as well with all sorts of reasons for the Israeli S13 or Sayert Matkal or for Yamam or for etc.. , but hey why bother when all I have to do is bring the French Foreign Legion (http://www.frenchforeignlegion.org/database/data/dta057.html) opinions into this, I mean I cant see how anyone here can top their professional opinions ;) :D

Shalom :D
That list is...rediculous. (I'm not kidding)

Yeah I am sure you are more professionally qualified then the French foreign legion to state that their opinions are ridicules :roll:

Anyways I am just ribbing you mate ;) (well partly p-) )

Oh and while I don’t disagree with who’s on top there :D , I think the list has a few issues in the order there.

I mean I know the Germans are respected and all (as well as they should be) but for hostage rescue, I cant forget their huge F*ck up with the Munich hostages on the tarmac there in Germany.

(I am sure Germans and others here will know exactly as to what I am referring to)

So yes they improved since then and of course every nation has some failures as well, but that was a big one and it was a failure due to a lot of un-professionalism and amateurism that they showed that day, and as such I am not sure they should to be that high.

Shalom :D

[HELEX]

I mean I know the Germans are respected and all (as well as they should be) but for hostage rescue, I cant forget their huge F*ck up with the Munich hostages on the tarmac there in Germany.

That was the reason GSG-9 was founded.... :roll:

And the ranking is about now and not about 30 years ago.

[Haiw]

Wow this again :roll:

Well I can get into it as well with all sorts of reasons for the Israeli S13 or Sayert Matkal or for Yamam or for etc.. , but hey why bother when all I have to do is bring the French Foreign Legion (http://www.frenchforeignlegion.org/database/data/dta057.html) opinions into this, I mean I cant see how anyone here can top their professional opinions ;) :D

Shalom :D
That list is...rediculous. (I'm not kidding)

Yeah I am sure you are more professionally qualified then the French foreign legion to state that their opinions are ridicules :roll:

Anyways I am just ribbing you mate ;) (well partly p-) )

Oh and while I don’t disagree with who’s on top there :D , I think the list has a few issues in the order there.

I mean I know the Germans are respected and all (as well as they should be) but for hostage rescue, I cant forget their huge F*ck up with the Munich hostages on the tarmac there in Germany.

(I am sure Germans and others here will know exactly as to what I am referring to)

So yes they improved since then and of course every nation has some failures as well, but that was a big one and it was a failure due to a lot of un-professionalism and amateurism that they showed that day, and as such I am not sure they should to be that high.

Shalom :D
Well 1st it's not a FFL list it's just a 'fansite' of the FFL that lists something from Military Journal.
Second, some things are just bollocks. For example Egypt (yeah, the country with all the screwups on HR) is listed as 26th, while for example the Netherlands (anyone remember a train hijacking?) isn't even on the list.

BTW about your argument about the Germans; I think they mean the GSG-9 in this list. Back at that Olympics hostage situation the GSG-9 didn't even exist. So far the GSG-9 have a good record (Mogadishu).

Oh and HELEX, supposedly the list looks at the period 1969-1996.

[FRO]

I mean I know the Germans are respected and all (as well as they should be) but for hostage rescue, I cant forget their huge F*ck up with the Munich hostages on the tarmac there in Germany.

(I am sure Germans and others here will know exactly as to what I am referring to)

Which was before the creation of the properly renowned GSG-9.

Consider their success in Mogadishu and their continuedsuccess. I'm sorry, but for hostage rescue, you've got to have a really, really, really (ad infinitum) good reason before you dis GSG-9.

[Javehn]

GSG-9 was created as an account of the Munich . When local police acted in ammateur way . And yews , i also think the FFL site is a fan one , but the S'13 and Sayeret Matkal should be on top , and just because it's military record , that's all . There are very famous operations , and there are operations that not one heard about , and they will keep secret for a long time .
I think also Russian GRU Spec brigades should be on top . I just readin book about "15 Obr SpN " , the Muslim battalion (Turkvo), indeed very interesting and dangerous operation . French Foreign Legion SPECOPS fought hard in the Indo China .

About the hostage rescue , i would say SAS and Israeli Yamam . Just because of their wide range of operation . I think Yamam is the only Police team in the world (something like SWAT) that has wide range of operations : Special arrest operations in territories , Special arrest operations inside Israel , braking and entry , hostage rescue , survailance , operations against criminal activity , regular operations in territories , Anti -terror activity .

[IDFM203]

Thanks for cleaing that up

Yep GSG-9. was created after and as a result.

oh and I did NOT diss them or germen forces.

all I said was that perhaps germany didnt belong as high as they did.

That doesn’t mean that they aren’t good or whatnot

and yes indeed GSG-9 gets my full respect!!

As for that list, well anyways I am just having fun, as this thread is stupid and ridicules and as such I figured I would bring that link down.

Whenever this thread ever gets series (if it ever does) with some serious posters who know what they are talking about, then perhps I will make a real case for the top spots to go to Israeli units like S13, or Sayeret Matkal.

But till then I will stick with that FFL site :D

Shalom :D

[SABER 2-3]

Actions...Speak ...louder; than Words.

From my limited knowledge.

Top Notch Outfit.

[Royal]

1. US Navy Seals
2. Israeli S13
3. Delta
4. Sayeret Matkal
5. RM SBS

FORMOSA, COMSUBIN, Commando Hubert, and several other Israeli and US air force units.

SBS do not come under RM chain of command (and have not done for some time). They have never been exclusivley RM.

As to the question. It's bollocks as I'm begining to expect (again) here. The world of SF/SOF is not a f**king football league.

[Huck Mucus]

Ok Guys....lets PLEASE and try and keep it civil...but out of all the spec. ops units out there...which do you think are the top five?

Notwithstanding rumors and legends to the contrary, they are all Homo sapiens, they all bleed, they can all die, and they all have personalities, some of which you would like and some you wouldn’t. They all have their own actual intra-unit pecking order that they have to arrive at on their own, just like every other unit.

They also have their own opinions (correct or not) of an inter-unit pecking order that they studiously avoid (under orders) actually proving. These orders stem from the studies of a group of physicists from MIT and some other major universities who determined that if Recon, SEALS, SF, Rangers, PJs and etc. were ever actually put to the test in competition, to determine their differences, the resulting catastrophic explosion would not only rip the universe apart, but the following implosion would bring us right back to the pre-Big Bang dark and meaningless void; a dark and meaningless void so vast and incomprehensible that it can only be expressed in terms of analogy to questions like yours.

[spectre5]

Gayest thread ever.

[tacticalmanta]

1. US Navy Seals
2. Israeli S13
3. Delta
4. Sayeret Matkal
5. RM SBS

FORMOSA, COMSUBIN, Commando Hubert, and several other Israeli and US air force units.

SBS do not come under RM chain of command (and have not done for some time). They have never been exclusivley RM.

As to the question. It's bollocks as I'm begining to expect (again) here. The world of SF/SOF is not a f**king football league.

That would be news to the SBS, but ok. I don't remember seeing any SBS guys in RAF uniforms.

[Royal]

That would be news to the SBS, but ok.

Tell DSF - I'm sure he'll be delighted to know you've taken away a quarter of his manpower.


I don't remember seeing any SBS guys in RAF uniforms.

Strangely enough, neither do I. RN & Army yes, but no RAF.

[mack pl]

1. US Navy Seals
2. Israeli S13
3. Delta
4. Sayeret Matkal
5. RM SBS

FORMOSA, COMSUBIN, Commando Hubert, and several other Israeli and US air force units.FORMOSA???? We have GSP FORMOZA in Poland, but you dont talking about it, yeah ;)

[NcDeuce]

http://ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/gay16.jpg

[tacticalmanta]

why are there so many homo******ity experts on here?

[Huck Mucus]

Dont' ask, don't tell.

[Maine Finn]

why are there so many homo******ity experts on here?

They're trying to tell us something about themselves.

[NcDeuce]

Good comeback, fatso.

[Hydro]

why are there so many homo******ity experts on here?

To give you a helping hand.

[tacticalmanta]

at recognising people like you? Ask the French members what the verb Angliser means.

[Hydro]

I would hazard a guess that it's a derogatory term for homo******, to turn homo******, to anglicise. Angliser looks as if it's derived from "Angleterre", meaning England, so in a roundabout way, it may mean "To English-ise" implying the English are gay. But seeing as je suis Ecossais, I don't have to worry much about checking my rear view mirror for bum-bandits.

[alexjulian]

An unanswered SOS from the SAS
Tony Geraghty
SOLDIER FIVE
By Mike Coburn
Mainstream, £17.99, pp.316, ISBN:1840188669

The epic survival story of the SAS patrol known as Bravo Two Zero during the first Gulf war until now, has largely overshadowed a darker story of incompetence and worse on the part of some of those who sent eight brave men into the desert on foot, on a Scud-hunt that was doomed from the start. In 1991, soldiers of the regiment’s B Squadron had been here before. A quixotic proposal to land a raiding party on an Argentine airfield a decade earlier, during the South Atlantic war, prompted a refusal on the part of some of the key players to perform.

In cases such as these, a political imperative when things are not going well — the need to buoy up public morale, as in the ill-fated St Nazaire raid of 1942 — overrides military sense. Some military formations, such as the French Foreign Legion and the Parachute Regiment, do embrace a sacrificial tradition, whether at Dien Bien Phu or Arnhem. The SAS, however, nourishes the illusion that ‘I do not die for my country, but I do help the enemy to die for his’.

This difference explains why Kiwi Coburn’s account is a story of lost innocence. Lying shackled in a malodorous cell, his ankle mangled by a bullet, he wanted to know why the fail-safe mechanisms for rescue had all failed.
When an SAS patrol is in the **** and calls for assistance, someone comes, that is part of the ethos behind the regiment’s operations. If you are intent on sending people hundreds of kilometres behind enemy lines, you have to offer some kind of backup … Had we got it so badly wrong that we were beyond help? And if so, why?
In his efforts to answer those questions, after his release from Iraqi captivity, he encountered a new and equally implacable enemy: the censorship machine of the Ministry of Defence, its lawyers and the increasingly bureaucratic nature of the SAS itself. Writers such as myself, still receiving threatening letters from the Ministry if we ignore the party line about Special Forces, have reason to be grateful to Coburn.

He fought a legal battle of more than four years, to prove that his account does not endanger national security. He went to the Privy Council to challenge an unequal civil contract imposed as part of the censorship mechanism to halt disclosures that are embarrassing rather than revelatory. He lost his case, on a majority verdict. Real breaches of secrecy, of course, should be covered by the Official Secrets Act 1989. The civil law fudge adopted instead is a testament to the loss of public confidence in the way the OSA is applied. (In my own case, five years ago, a formal finding by military experts that I had caused no damage to security in publishing my account of the Irish Troubles did not deter the MoD — knowing the facts — from pursuing me as if a crime had happened.)

Soldier Five, in challenging the MoD’s claim to any financial benefit that might accrue from the book (which the author wishes to donate, in some measure, to the next-of-kin of his three dead comrades), is an event which could have a real impact on future works which the new, politicised SAS and its bosses in the MoD would wish to control.

Whatever Pyrrhic victory Whitehall might believe it scored before the Privy Council, however, does not diminish the moral weight and potency of Coburn’s story. Why, given overwhelming Allied air power, were no searches made over the agreed escape route? After it was compromised, the patrol marched north, towards Syria on the instructions, Coburn reveals, of the squadron commander. The regiment’s higher command apparently believed that the escape route lay south, towards Saudi Arabia.

‘What happened to the lost comms procedure?’ one survivor asked at the debrief. ‘Why wasn’t a new [radio] set brought in to us?’ The commanding officer’s answer was that he wasn’t willing to risk losing helicopters ‘until the situation clarified’.

Coburn pressed on. Why was no rescue party sent to the agreed emergency rendezvous? The colonel replied, ‘At that stage of the war Scuds were being launched at Israel practically on a nightly basis. I would have sacrificed a squadron of men for a Scud. Stopping them was the priority. End of story.’

Coburn reflected:
If the SAS hierarchy were prepared to sacrifice scores of men for the sake of a Scud, then our call for help was insignificant ... and cast the patrol in an entirely different light … The fault was not our own, nor had it ever been. Our fate had been sealed by those in charge, from the comfort of a secure location.
He is, perhaps, still unaware that the Caesars in charge of this decision were sitting in Whitehall as well as Rear HQ.

Tony Geraghty’s books include Who Dares Wins and The Irish War.

[Royal]

Stupidly I waded through tacticalninja's bollocks on the "Weapon Safeties In Combat" thread, among the many gems was...


If real soldiers with real service (not conscripts or children) have something to add then fine. Most the comments were from people who had absolutely no clue as to what they are saying. I am by no means an expert on a lot of issues discussed here and when I don't know something, I keep my mouth shut.

I notice he still hasn't replied to this, maybe he's too busy giving his Captain a pedicure...



That would be news to the SBS, but ok.

Tell DSF - I'm sure he'll be delighted to know you've taken away a quarter of his manpower.

[mocking_loudly_died]

Stupidly I waded through tacticalninja's bollocks on the "Weapon Safeties In Combat" thread, among the many gems was...


If real soldiers with real service (not conscripts or children) have something to add then fine. Most the comments were from people who had absolutely no clue as to what they are saying. I am by no means an expert on a lot of issues discussed here and when I don't know something, I keep my mouth shut.

I notice he still hasn't replied to this, maybe he's too busy giving his Captain a pedicure...



That would be news to the SBS, but ok.

Tell DSF - I'm sure he'll be delighted to know you've taken away a quarter of his manpower.

I find it amusing he is telling a Royal Marine (you) about the SBS. F*ck it, I think I might give a lecture about astro-physics since it's talk bollocks month.

[Haiw]

Mind if I'm gonna lecture you on hot asian chicks? :D

[Pégase]

Some military formations, such as the French Foreign Legion and the Parachute Regiment, do embrace a sacrificial tradition, whether at Dien Bien Phu or Arnhem. The SAS, however, nourishes the illusion that ‘I do not die for my country, but I do help the enemy to die for his’.


don't mistake the French Foreign Legion for the 1st RPIMa, or their traditions and spirit as do this author

the 1er RPIMa is the heir of the French specialised units formed and engaged during WWII with the SAS

their motto is "Qui ose gagne" ("Who dares wins"), so you know from what it comes from ...

[Saint]

Hitlers SS, all the way

[kommando]

now this maybe fully biased well it will be but here goes

1. Australian SAS

it said in the latest edition of ANZ Defender that the british we really "arsed off" becuase of how much he american were realying on the Australians. From what it said NZSAS and the British SAS worked really close toghter whereas the Aussie SAS and American SF worked close together.

From what it said the aussies were the first in to iraq had 8 battles in their first 3 days, and were the first soldiers in bagdhad - this came from journilists escaping through checkpoints when they "heard the unistakeable accents".

Not only that but wanst it the SASR that saved a bunch of american SF soldiers in a'stan when they came under heavy fire.

And also is you look at the selection procedure it is very rigourous, this is one factor as to why the SF of australia is so small.
1SQDRN SASR took part in a'stan and iraq and received alot of awards off america and australia. (75 men i think).

Then again you wouldnt expect australia to have 800 in SF becuase then we'd lose even more in the normla military plus our budget isnt big enough.

sorry for the length i could have wrote even more :|

[Gordon]

1. US Navy Seals
2. Israeli S13
3. Delta
4. Sayeret Matkal
5. RM SBS

FORMOSA, COMSUBIN, Commando Hubert, and several other Israeli and US air force units.

SBS do not come under RM chain of command (and have not done for some time). They have never been exclusivley RM.

As to the question. It's bollocks as I'm begining to expect (again) here. The world of SF/SOF is not a f**king football league.

That would be news to the SBS, but ok. I don't remember seeing any SBS guys in RAF uniforms.

No wonder Royal aint around here anymore, this is the kind of bull**** he has to put with. As Mocking_Loudly said, TacticalWanker just told a long serving RM that he knew nothing .... :cantbeli:

[California Joe]

But the ignorant are always funny. Like fart jokes.

[MaDuce]

This is like the best tank thread everyone picks their own countries guys.

[Gordon]

But the ignorant are always funny. Like fart jokes.

True, but there's a limit to either of those and we've gone way past the limit for the ignorant on this site so you better tell us a fart joke joe.

[ronin2172]

Not saying this is fact (maybe someone in the know can tell me if this is wrong). But everyone here rated the SAS better than the SBS. I found an interesting arguement that says otherwise. The following is a quote.

"After reading your description regarding the SBS, I feel that it is important for me to encourage you to make some amendments. It is the general mistake for people to make the assumption that the SBS is inferior to her special forces cousin, the SAS. However, this is untrue.

Her majesty's government hold the SBS in higher regard than the SAS, and there is one important reason for this. The recruits for the SBS are of a higher calibre due to the fact that they have already been through the arduous training required to become a Royal Marine commando in the first place. Members of the SAS are drafted from all areas of the British Army and therefore would have received inferior basic training to those members of The Royal Marines who have already attended the longest basic infantry course within NATO and indeed the world.

There is another reason why the SBS is regarded higher than the SAS, and this is the contrast between the regiments attitudes to service. Because the SAS are forever in the public eye, members of the regiment usually have inflated egos. This has been known to regularly interfere in their professionalism, most notably during the Falklands conflict where order were disregarded on many occasions, putting the task force deployed at enormous risk. The Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher straight away put heavy reliance on the SBS due to the fact that she now held a great deal of mistrust for the SAS.

Selection for the SBS is also more arduous in comparison of that undertaken by the SAS. Not only do recruits have to cover the syllabus required to become a member of the SAS, they also have to be educated in methods of diving, submarine insertion, advanced marine reconnaissance, canoeing and other specialist waterborne methods of warfare.

As far as the amalgamation of the special forces goes, this is as good a speculation. If it was to happen, an SBS officer would most certainly be in charge of the newly formed regiment. Although training has become more integrated between the two services, SAS servicemen still feel a certain amount of jealousy for not being able to become SBS members, and tensions between the two regiments exist today stronger than ever!

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) keeps the SBS regiment size down to 250 in strength. This is to maximise efficiency, mobility and the level of secrecy, which the SAS can never have due to it's sheer size in numbers and profile in the public eye. High profile missions are therefore always undertaken by the SAS, but the ones that really do directly relate to the security of the United Kingdom and the safety of Her majesty ( the missions which are kept secret in order to prevent panic within the nation!) are always, in my experience anyway, undertaken by members of the SBS Regiment."

Like i said i don't know if this is true but it makes an interesting arguement, maybe Royal or some one can confirm this or give a good counter arguement. Also the quote was supposedly written by a former SBS man so that may account for the bias he shows.

[Khabbi]

Im sure all US Army Special Forces soldiers are happy about being called green berets , congrats after 22 months of hard training , you're a hat !

Who's the best SOF unit ? well we will just have to see at the next Super SOF league final , its next thanks giving right ? my guess is that Rainbow six wins.

[Sierra]

the ones we dont even kno about

[bobdakilla]

Marine force recon is by far the best woot

[White_Bear]

hehe,have you ever heard abour "GROM" - polish special forces??? :)

I'm not sure if we are really can take a place in this rating but we have a good mark.US asked us to help them in the first phase of invasion and GROM mission was to secure oil fields.Many said that GROM is as good as US Special forces.

[cut]

yes. of course but,



someone please lock this thread!

[Steve Railsback]

The best SF are of course the USRSF :bash:
END OF DISCUSSION

http://delahunty.com/pics/funny/RedNeckSpecialForces.jpg

[Royal]

Her majesty's government hold the SBS in higher regard than the SAS possibly, though not for the reason given, and there is one important reason for this. The recruits for the SBS are of a higher calibre due to the fact that they have already been through the arduous training required to become a Royal Marine commando in the first place. Not true, any member of UK armed forces can apply for SF/SD, subject to medical and SC. Members of the SAS are drafted from all areas of the British Army and therefore would have received inferior basic training to those members of The Royal Marines who have already attended the longest basic infantry course within NATO and indeed the world. True in part, see above.

There is another reason why the SBS is regarded higher than the SAS, and this is the contrast between the regiments attitudes to service. Because the SAS are forever in the public eye, members of the regiment usually have inflated egos. Bollocks, prima donnas are binned ASP - regardless of rank/experience. This has been known to regularly interfere in their professionalism, most notably during the Falklands conflict where order were disregarded on many occasions, putting the task force deployed at enormous risk. Ehh? The only possible examples are the raid on the Argentine mainland - which was down to an incompetant coward (the Troop OC), who was binned, and the plan to assualt Stanley by C130, which was clearly suicide and was laughed out of court at the planning stage. The Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher straight away put heavy reliance on the SBS due to the fact that she now held a great deal of mistrust for the SAS. Hmm...

Selection for the SBS is also more arduous in comparison of that undertaken by the SAS. Not only do recruits have to cover the syllabus required to become a member of the SAS, they also have to be educated in methods of diving, submarine insertion, advanced marine reconnaissance, canoeing and other specialist waterborne methods of warfare. True

As far as the amalgamation of the special forces goes, this is as good a speculation. If it was to happen, an SBS officer would most certainly be in charge of the newly formed regiment. Crap. DSF is an army Brigadier, his deputy is an RM Colonel, it would undoubtedly stay that way. Although training has become more integrated between the two services, SAS servicemen still feel a certain amount of jealousy for not being able to become SBS members, and tensions between the two regiments exist today stronger than ever! There has always been rivalry, but they work together too much for it to be any more than that.

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) keeps the SBS regiment size down to 250 in strength. Crap - they have been trying to expand both units for years. The greatest problem with any expansion is the 'creeping excellency' that has developed over the past decade or so. This is to maximise efficiency, mobility and the level of secrecy, which the SAS can never have due to it's sheer size in numbers and profile in the public eye. High profile what SF missions are high profile? I'll give you Princes Gate. missions are therefore always undertaken by the SAS, but the ones that really do directly relate to the security of the United Kingdom and the safety of Her majesty ( the missions which are kept secret in order to prevent panic within the nation!) are always, in my experience anyway, undertaken by members of the SBS Regiment. it is not a regiment, so I guess his experience is pretty limited"

Like i said i don't know if this is true but it makes an interesting arguement, maybe Royal or some one can confirm this or give a good counter arguement. Also the quote was supposedly written by a former SBS man so that may account for the bias he shows.

My comments in red...

[ronin2172]

thanks royal, like i said i just found it and the points, seemed valid (on the surface at least).

LOL at the USRSF that is funny! :lol:

[alexs]

no such thing as the best..however SBS is made of very tough and smart blokes with a deep sense of humility and a true sense of humour.

[solidus]

the irish ARW is one of the best
"Irish Independent

Tom Brady

The crack army force, the Ranger Wing, snatched a bronze medal in Bonn, Germany yesterday at the end of a four-day competition for special units from 41 countries around the world.

The competition is a test of skills of special police and military units throughout the world and involves physical, mental, marksmanship and tactical skills.

Their tasks included hostage dramas, obstacle crossing, and water disciplines on the river Rhine.

The Rangers ended up as the leading military team in the event. They recorded one 3rd, four 4ths and never achieved less than 12th in any of the tests.

Other competitors included the GEO from Spain, GSG9 from Germany, GOE Portugal, NOCS Italy (2nd), Royal Dutch Marines, and from South Africa, Sweden and the winning team Cobra from Austria.
The competition has been held every four years since the early 1980s."

[Pooterman]

It would seem to me that while the US special forces community may not get the best training they certainly have the most experience. Am I wrong? Are we going to split hairs here? (with exception of maybe the SAS)

[mack pl]

This **** again :| Who have longest ****..blah blah.... who have the best SF... :|

[Argyll]

a **** swinging exercise where nobody really gives a fok,they're all good that's why they're called "Special".......I'm gonna lock this one too,there's been way too many pissing contests