Hit men kill 13 at party in Mexico tourist town

[LongShot]

Hit men kill 13 at party in Mexico tourist town

Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:45pm EDT
CIUDAD JUAREZ, Mexico (*******) (http://www.*******.com/article/worldNews/idUSN1844691320080818) - Suspected drug hit men opened fire on a family gathering at a tourist town in northern Mexico killing 13 people including a baby.

The masked hit men sprayed the party with bullets on Saturday as they drove past the dance hall where the family was gathered outside in Creel, Chihuahua state, near the U.S. border.

The shower of bullets killed a 1-year-old in the arms of an adult, as well as three teen-agers and a university professor, said a spokesman for the Chihuahua attorney general's office on Monday.

"They can kill each other, but to shoot dead innocent people, young students, professors ... it is not possible," a weeping 60-year-old resident told local Chihuahua daily El Diario after the attack.

The shooting was believed to be part of a drug gang feud and the government sent 160 federal police and soldiers to Creel following the attack.

Creel in the remote and snowy Sierra Tarahumara mountains is a key narcotics smuggling point en route to Mexico's border with the United States.

It is also the town where tourists start a train journey through Mexico's spectacular Copper Canyon that is home to the Tarahumara Indians.

More than 2,000 people have died this year in Mexico's drug war, mostly between rival gangs, in a fight for control of smuggling corridors into the United States.

The shooting follows a deadly attack by hit men on a drug and alcohol rehabilitation center in Chihuahua's border city of Ciudad Juarez last week, when hooded gunmen killed eight patients during a prayer session.

Mexico's most-wanted man, Joaquin "Shorty" Guzman, is fighting local drug baron Vicente Carrillo Fuentes, boss of the Juarez cartel, for control of Chihuahua state and its lucrative smuggling corridor into the United States.

(Reporting by Ignacio Alvarado; Editing by Cynthia Osterman)



This sh*t is out of control.............RIP to the innocent.

[BugHunt]

Animals....


RIP to the innocent victims.

[Battlebuds]

Horrible, how can people live with themselves doing such things?

RIP

[Flagg]

I'm quite surprised a group or groups along the lines of "Los Pepes" in Columbia haven't formed and gained wide notoriety in Mexico yet.

I'd think the environment is becoming quite fertile for vigilante groups to form and counter the crisis, expand the crisis, and/or capitalise on the crisis with their own agendas.

With such systemic corruption and violence from such massive amounts of money being made anything is possible.

[Tokamak]

This sh*t is out of control.............RIP to the innocent.

I think it has been for a while. I hope those ****ers burn in hell!.

[BugHunt]

I'm quite surprised a group or groups along the lines of "Los Pepes" in Columbia haven't formed and gained wide notoriety in Mexico yet.

I'd think the environment is becoming quite fertile for vigilante groups to form and counter the crisis, expand the crisis, and/or capitalise on the crisis with their own agendas.

With such systemic corruption and violence from such massive amounts of money being made anything is possible.

I doubt such a group can be created or survive long without state level sponsorship.......

Maybe it is indeed time for Mexico to go that route :-(

[Flagg]

I doubt such a group can be created or survive long without state level sponsorship.......

Maybe it is indeed time for Mexico to go that route :-(

Such organizations have a long history in Central/South America.....and links with government/law enforcement/military/influential likely have a lot of substance beyond just strong speculation.

[wigon]

Yup it's been tried and before. It works for awhile, but here is the problem. Once you start arming the locals and training them as vigelante groups, they become just another paramilitary organization that ends up often doing just as many attrocities as the drug lords and their gangs. A case in point is the AUC in Colombia which committed some of the worst human rights abuses in their long running civil war.
They started off as simple small civil defense organizations for small towns. However they developed into murderous death squads.
We are using this same tactic in Iraq where it is working well with the Sunnis mainly because they already had a strong tribal culture that goes back thousands of years that has always defended itself against outsiders. In the countries of Latin America, aside from indigenous groups, much of the populations are highly mobile and shift rapidly. In larger towns nobody knows who's an outsider and who's just coming there to work or other legitimate reasons.

However with that said, in desperation, they may have to arm the locals in at least the smaller towns as often the state and even federal police are often corrupt and working for the drug lords. The problem is simple: GREED
There is enormous amounts of money to be made in drug smuggling and competition for power in that business is only resolved through bloodshed and terror tactics. So in essence the end up in a competition of who can be the most rutheless killers. Some of these Drug Lords also believe in all kinds of wierd cults that they believe protect them but that require blood sacrifice as their Aztec ancestors required.
So yeah you can get this huge mixed of really messed up craziness.

But with that much money to be made there, its not a hard sell to corrupt some cop who gets paid crap wages and risks his life every day fighting these low-lifes.
The Mexican government just needs to develop a more coherent strategy of internal investigation within its police forces and military.

America has a role to play as well by working to curb the demand for drugs. Marijuana is the biggest import. Alot of people grow it in the states but it's mostly crap skunk weed. The highest quality stuff smoked by America's affluent youth (and older people as well) tends to be from down South of the border. It blew me away how many college students smoke weed at my university. Even more surprising was how selective and picky they were about their weed. They paid top dollar for the expensive stuff from different parts of Latin America.
The fact of the matter is that they prefer not to know. Universities need to do a better job at educating students about the price in blood that is paid by their indulgences.

Wigon

[LongShot]

Yup it's been tried and before. It works for awhile, but here is the problem. Once you start arming the locals and training them as vigelante groups, they become just another paramilitary organization that ends up often doing just as many attrocities as the drug lords and their gangs. A case in point is the AUC in Colombia which committed some of the worst human rights abuses in their long running civil war.
They started off as simple small civil defense organizations for small towns. However they developed into murderous death squads.
We are using this same tactic in Iraq where it is working well with the Sunnis mainly because they already had a strong tribal culture that goes back thousands of years that has always defended itself against outsiders. In the countries of Latin America, aside from indigenous groups, much of the populations are highly mobile and shift rapidly. In larger towns nobody knows who's an outsider and who's just coming there to work or other legitimate reasons.

However with that said, in desperation, they may have to arm the locals in at least the smaller towns as often the state and even federal police are often corrupt and working for the drug lords. The problem is simple: GREED
There is enormous amounts of money to be made in drug smuggling and competition for power in that business is only resolved through bloodshed and terror tactics. So in essence the end up in a competition of who can be the most rutheless killers. Some of these Drug Lords also believe in all kinds of wierd cults that they believe protect them but that require blood sacrifice as their Aztec ancestors required.
So yeah you can get this huge mixed of really messed up craziness.

But with that much money to be made there, its not a hard sell to corrupt some cop who gets paid crap wages and risks his life every day fighting these low-lifes.
The Mexican government just needs to develop a more coherent strategy of internal investigation within its police forces and military.

America has a role to play as well by working to curb the demand for drugs. Marijuana is the biggest import. Alot of people grow it in the states but it's mostly crap skunk weed. The highest quality stuff smoked by America's affluent youth (and older people as well) tends to be from down South of the border. It blew me away how many college students smoke weed at my university. Even more surprising was how selective and picky they were about their weed. They paid top dollar for the expensive stuff from different parts of Latin America.
The fact of the matter is that they prefer not to know. Universities need to do a better job at educating students about the price in blood that is paid by their indulgences.

Wigon


Seriously.....think before you type, and please make a clear seperation between what you know and what you think you know otherwise, STFU!

[Dragunov]

Here some pics:
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/5668/foto614lk3.jpg
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/7233/foto622rt5.jpg
http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/8510/foto620wv2.jpg
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/3433/foto621ra1.jpg
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/8586/foto623ll2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


RIP

[LongShot]

Thanks for the Pics Dragunov.

[wigon]

Seriously.....think before you type, and please make a clear seperation between what you know and what you think you know otherwise, STFU!

What I think I know? My mother's hometown of Falan, Colombia was terrorized by these types of thugs and one of my Aunt's husbands was kidnapped and murdered by SOB's from the AUC. So no, I won't STFU.
If I said something that you think is B.S., the correct me rather then insult me. If I am clearly wrong, then I'm more then willing to admit that I'm wrong as I have on other threads. But when it comes to the topic of "civil self-protection organizations" that is a topic close to home for me.

Wigon

[WCF.KAS]

Yup it's been tried and before. It works for awhile, but here is the problem. Once you start arming the locals and training them as vigelante groups, they become just another paramilitary organization that ends up often doing just as many attrocities as the drug lords and their gangs. A case in point is the AUC in Colombia which committed some of the worst human rights abuses in their long running civil war.
They started off as simple small civil defense organizations for small towns. However they developed into murderous death squads.
We are using this same tactic in Iraq where it is working well with the Sunnis mainly because they already had a strong tribal culture that goes back thousands of years that has always defended itself against outsiders. In the countries of Latin America, aside from indigenous groups, much of the populations are highly mobile and shift rapidly. In larger towns nobody knows who's an outsider and who's just coming there to work or other legitimate reasons.

However with that said, in desperation, they may have to arm the locals in at least the smaller towns as often the state and even federal police are often corrupt and working for the drug lords. The problem is simple: GREED
There is enormous amounts of money to be made in drug smuggling and competition for power in that business is only resolved through bloodshed and terror tactics. So in essence the end up in a competition of who can be the most rutheless killers. Some of these Drug Lords also believe in all kinds of wierd cults that they believe protect them but that require blood sacrifice as their Aztec ancestors required.
So yeah you can get this huge mixed of really messed up craziness.

But with that much money to be made there, its not a hard sell to corrupt some cop who gets paid crap wages and risks his life every day fighting these low-lifes.
The Mexican government just needs to develop a more coherent strategy of internal investigation within its police forces and military.

America has a role to play as well by working to curb the demand for drugs. Marijuana is the biggest import. Alot of people grow it in the states but it's mostly crap skunk weed. The highest quality stuff smoked by America's affluent youth (and older people as well) tends to be from down South of the border. It blew me away how many college students smoke weed at my university. Even more surprising was how selective and picky they were about their weed. They paid top dollar for the expensive stuff from different parts of Latin America.
The fact of the matter is that they prefer not to know. Universities need to do a better job at educating students about the price in blood that is paid by their indulgences.

Wigon

okay good points on everything except the weed part

let me tell you, the best weed does not come from mexico...most of the stuff coming up from south of the border is horrible

I would say the weed that the "affluent youth" smoke is either illegally sold medical marijuana grown out here in california, or stuff smuggled in from canada....

but just another reason to legalize it.....no prohibition= no profits for drug cartels = no money to buy 10 aks at a texas gun show and smuggle them down to sinaloa where there used to kill innocents, cops, federalis

[Dominique]

We are using this same tactic in Iraq where it is working well with the Sunnis mainly because they already had a strong tribal culture that goes back thousands of years that has always defended itself against outsiders. In the countries of Latin America, aside from indigenous groups, much of the populations are highly mobile and shift rapidly. In larger towns nobody knows who's an outsider and who's just coming there to work or other legitimate reasons.

The various groups we're working with in Iraq are not armed vigilante groups, operating in secret, and conducting executions. They are officially recognized organizations that draw a paycheck, and receive training and/or support form the US military, so don't confuse them with the groups operating in Colombia.


America has a role to play as well by working to curb the demand for drugs.

Agreed, the US does a piss poor job of educating people on the REAL costs of drug use. Many see it as a victim less crime, or could care less about its affects on others, as long as they can continue to either make money or get high.


Marijuana is the biggest import.

Wrong.


Alot of people grow it in the states but it's mostly crap skunk weed. The highest quality stuff smoked by America's affluent youth (and older people as well) tends to be from down South of the border.

The number one cash crops for Tennessee and North Carolina is Marijuana. Marijuana brings more cash into NC than tobacco.


It blew me away how many college students smoke weed at my university. Even more surprising was how selective and picky they were about their weed. They paid top dollar for the expensive stuff from different parts of Latin America.

And you wonder why so many students never have cash to pay their bills. Seriously, Every collage I know of is awash with drugs, and alcohol. Everything from Ecstasy, to Heroin, to Meth, you name it, you can get fairly easily.


The fact of the matter is that they prefer not to know.

That's because they turn a blind eye to it, as many of the collage faculty did drugs themselves, and just see it as part of youthful experimentation. As long as it's not causing them a "serious" problem (like making them look bad, or taking cash out of the schools coffers), they have an unofficial live and let live policy.


Universities need to do a better job at educating students about the price in blood that is paid by their indulgences.

That's just not going to happen here in the US. See my above response.

[wigon]

okay good points on everything except the weed part

let me tell you, the best weed does not come from mexico...most of the stuff coming up from south of the border is horrible

I would say the weed that the "affluent youth" smoke is either illegally sold medical marijuana grown out here in california, or stuff smuggled in from canada....

but just another reason to legalize it.....no prohibition= no profits for drug cartels = no money to buy 10 aks at a texas gun show and smuggle them down to sinaloa where there used to kill innocents, cops, federalis

Ah yeah... I forgot about the weed coming in from British Colombia and California. I'm not a weed expert, I only hear students talking about Colombian marijuana or Guatamalan types, but yeah I do recall hearing people mention BC bud and some of the Californian medical marijuana.

Wigon

[ColinP]

Sadly BC bud is one of our biggest exports, it's very potent and the trade is very profitable for the gangs.

[wigon]

[quote=Dominique;3482212]quote]


Yeah I agree with you Dominique that universities have a really horrific record concerning drug abuse and you are right that it is considered this "coming of age" and "youthful exploration" type of deal. The campus police departments usually take it serously, but the judicial affairs offices ususally don't and give students a slap on the wrist generally unless they're dealing the drugs. The media really should focus more attention on universities and private schools rather then depicting drug users as just poor people.
(Most of the drug users I've met look and act like Harold and Kumar (if you've ever seen their movies).

Wigon

[WCF.KAS]

Sadly BC bud is one of our biggest exports, it's very potent and the trade is very profitable for the gangs.

once again, would it be half as profitable if it were legal.......i think everyone knows the answer

we have to go beyond the whole "College kids need to stop smoking weed, then the drug war will be won" idea

we need to legalize marijuana, have it taxed by the gov and managed by the ATF then we take away money from the cartels

MY WEED IS GROWN IN THE GOOD OLD U.S.A AND THATS HOW IT SHOULD BE

BUY AMERICAN p-)

[wigon]

I agree with you overall. Not that marijuana is harmless, but its not any more harmful then alcohol or tobacco.
The only problem with the idea is that drug merchants will just move on to other profitable (AND MUCH MORE DANGEROUS) illegal drugs such as meth, heroin, crack/cocaine, exctacy, etc...
So the drug wars will continue unfortunately. But perhaps it might have an impact on the cartels in Mexico who seem to be primarily smuggling in Marijuana. But they too may just switch to other drugs...but they would probably not make as big of a profit as they do off of ol' Mary Jane.
Plus the crazy thing about the laws against Canabis are all the insane restrictions on industrial hemp growing... something that could be a massive industry here in the U.S.. Hemp is probably one of the most versatile plants around as far as the number of products you can make from it.

Wigon

[WCF.KAS]

I agree with you overall. Not that marijuana is harmless, but its not any more harmful then alcohol or tobacco.
The only problem with the idea is that drug merchants will just move on to other profitable (AND MUCH MORE DANGEROUS) illegal drugs such as meth, heroin, crack/cocaine, exctacy, etc...
So the drug wars will continue unfortunately. But perhaps it might have an impact on the cartels in Mexico who seem to be primarily smuggling in Marijuana.

Wigon
exactly they'll go where the money is, but right now an unessescery prohibition is only adding to there coffers

once again they do not primarily move marijuana

i would say in the last decade or so cocaine has become the mexican cartels bread and butter
they buy it for about $800 a kilo from the columbians, then they ship it up here where it starts at $16000 a kilo

extremely profitable...

[wigon]

My question is who the hell is using all this cocaine...around my parts Marijuana and meth seems to be the drug of choice... I guess crackheads are still around doing the crack thing but it seems that they're alot less common at least around my neck of the woods as I used to see alot of them in back alleys smoking their crack pipes around where I live. There must be some awfully wealthy people buying alot of cocaine or maybe some cities still have a big crack problem.

Wigon

[Dominique]

My question is who the hell is using all this cocaine...around my parts Marijuana and meth seems to be the drug of choice... I guess crackheads are still around doing the crack thing but it seems that they're alot less common at least around my neck of the woods as I used to see alot of them in back alleys smoking their crack pipes around where I live. There must be some awfully wealthy people buying alot of cocaine or maybe some cities still have a big crack problem.

Wigon

Even though Meth is quickly making gains in a lot of areas, cocaine use is still alive and well. As for who's using it, it all depends. Crack (rock cocaine) is still going strong in some areas, but powder cocaine use is up among Hispanics (powder cocaine used to be the drug of choice among middle and upper class drug users). Heroin is is also making a comeback. Why do you think they're growing all those poppies in Afghanistan? And that several South American cartels have taken up poppy cultivation? Because just like any other business, they need to provide a product their clients want. As for cities having drug problems, drugs are EVERYWHERE, even small rural communities are struggling with drug problems. It's not jsut something that affects large cities.

[PVJ]

The Mexican government should stop fvcking around with the police officers and go desert storm on those cartel motherfvckers. Attack helicopters, tanks, airstrikes, the whole 9 yards, Those mofos wanna shoot cops and civilians lets see them fight off a ****ing apache.

[Dominique]

The Mexican government should stop fvcking around with the police officers and go desert storm on those cartel motherfvckers. Attack helicopters, tanks, airstrikes, the whole 9 yards, Those mofos wanna shoot cops and civilians lets see them fight off a ****ing apache.

Yeah, that' the answer, lets just bombing whole neighborhoods, you know a couple of well placed artillery shells should take care of the problem. And if anyone gets in the way, well that's just to bad for them, because we all know that drug dealers would never hide amongst the innocent civilian population. Also, last I checked Mexico doesn't have Apaches. Lets get real here people, it's going to take years, if not decades, of good police work to clean this mess up. It's not going to happen overnight.

[WCF.KAS]

Yeah, that' the answer, lets just bombing whole neighborhoods, you know a couple of well placed artillery shells should take care of the problem. And if anyone gets in the way, well that's just to bad for them, because we all know that drug dealers would never hide amongst the innocent civilian population. Also, last I checked Mexico doesn't have Apaches. Lets get real here people, it's going to take years, if not decades, of good police work to clean this mess up. It's not going to happen overnight.

what about a more proactive american spec ops presence in mexico

Delta helped take down Pablo Escobar, why can't they do the same to Chapo Guzman....

[PVJ]

Yeah, that' the answer, lets just bombing whole neighborhoods, you know a couple of well placed artillery shells should take care of the problem. And if anyone gets in the way, well that's just to bad for them, because we all know that drug dealers would never hide amongst the innocent civilian population. Also, last I checked Mexico doesn't have Apaches. Lets get real here people, it's going to take years, if not decades, of good police work to clean this mess up. It's not going to happen overnight.

I mean stuff like airstrikes on cocaine factories, The police know where the cartel members live, they are either bribed or scared for their families, i say instead of police getting warrents to arrest them, get the mexican air force to bomb the motherfvckers. Fight fear with fear. Get those guys scared sh!tless some mexican special ops are gonna take them out and thatl help. Whats the point of using police when they get shot with 50 cals and armour piercing rounds.

[Dominique]

what about a more proactive american spec ops presence in mexico

Delta helped take down Pablo Escobar, why can't they do the same to Chapo Guzman....

I'm sure that there's a lot going on that you don't hear about. It took years to bring down Pablo, and as I said it's going to take years to clean up Mexico. They're not idiots, just give them the time and resources to work on it.

[Dominique]

I mean stuff like airstrikes on cocaine factories, Most of the cocaine production actually takes place in rural labs located in Colombia, and Peru, not Mexico, so I don't see the Mexican AF conducting any bombing raids on them.


The police know where the cartel members live, they are either bribed or scared for their families, i say instead of police getting warrents to arrest them, get the mexican air force to bomb the motherfvckers.

Knowing someone's a drug kingpin, and being able to prove it are to different things, and what if the guy lives in a neighborhood located in the middle of town? You just going to drop a couple of 500lb. bombs down his chimney?


Fight fear with fear. Get those guys scared sh!tless

Yeah, that's the ticket. And while their at it, why not kidnap, rape and murder members of the drug lords family? Hell, might as well set up a couple of VBIEDs in areas they're known to frequent, and recruit suicide bombers to target their leadership. No need for law enforcement to follow all these silly ass rules, as that will just get more of them killed. Right? I'm all for it, who you want to torture first?


some mexican special ops are gonna take them out and thatl help.

While that may, or may not happen, it's only part of a long term solution.


Whats the point of using police when they get shot with 50 cals and armour piercing rounds.

Because that's what civilized nations due. They use their police and security forces to handle, what's essentially a law enforcement issue. Why the military may be brought in to help, they're not the ones who are going to solve the problem. It's the various Mexican law enforcement agencies (with assistance from the US), that are going to have to get out there and handle the issue.

[Flagg]

Most of the cocaine production actually takes place in rural labs located in Colombia, and Peru, not Mexico, so I don't see the Mexican AF conducting any bombing raids on them.



Knowing someone's a drug kingpin, and being able to prove it are to different things, and what if the guy lives in a neighborhood located in the middle of town? You just going to drop a couple of 500lb. bombs down his chimney?



Yeah, that's the ticket. And while their at it, why not kidnap, rape and murder members of the drug lords family? Hell, might as well set up a couple of VBIEDs in areas they're known to frequent, and recruit suicide bombers to target their leadership. No need for law enforcement to follow all these silly ass rules, as that will just get more of them killed. Right? I'm all for it, who you want to torture first?



While that may, or may not happen, it's only part of a long term solution.



Because that's what civilized nations due. They use their police and security forces to handle, what's essentially a law enforcement issue. Why the military may be brought in to help, they're not the ones who are going to solve the problem. It's the various Mexican law enforcement agencies (with assistance from the US), that are going to have to get out there and handle the issue.

I agree 100%

But I strongly suspect that regional past performance is indicative of future performance and I would think the odds are quite good that one or more organizations will develop to fill the existing void in effectively dealing with the problem.

My direct experience with Mexico and South America is extremely limited, but I do know that death squads(for lack of a better term) have been used throughout to serve governments, business communities, and supposedly on behalf of society....as well as to forward their own agendas.

Quite frankly, I'm surprised an NC17 rated Mexican version of "The Untouchables"(either public or private) hasn't been popularized yet in the mass media.

From this distance, the environment seems incredibly fertile for not-particularly-law-abiding pipehitters to be deemed acceptable by the average Jose to control, if not eradicate, the problem.

I neither agree with, nor condone such behavior, but if MY family were victimized by such activity I'd be seriously tempted to ask for such potentially dangerous "justice".

[BugHunt]

I think the thing which stood out about Los Pepes was -

- extremely good intell - they knew exactly who to target
- effective action -never got caught
- discipline - as soon as the target was gone they disbanded - (instead of say branching out into organised crime for profit).


Bowden more or less says there were probably gringos involved with it.....

Forgetting all the morality issues - id say for various reasons it would be hard to replicate there effectiveness again.

Also nowadays the threat seems much more diffuse and widespread then a single "kingpin" figure.



In any case kill as many as you like so long as there $BILLIONS waiting to be paid for drugs there will always be a new supplier....

[Dominique]

My direct experience with Mexico and South America is extremely limited, but I do know that death squads(for lack of a better term) have been used throughout to serve governments, business communities, and supposedly on behalf of society....as well as to forward their own agendas.

Quite frankly, I'm surprised an NC17 rated Mexican version of "The Untouchables"(either public or private) hasn't been popularized yet in the mass media.

From this distance, the environment seems incredibly fertile for not-particularly-law-abiding pipehitters to be deemed acceptable by the average Jose to control, if not eradicate, the problem.

I neither agree with, nor condone such behavior, but if MY family were victimized by such activity I'd be seriously tempted to ask for such potentially dangerous "justice".

Unfortunately, these death squads may, or may not be started with the best of intentions, but they usually end up being no better than the groups they're opposing. They become nothing more than armed gangs of thugs eliminating anyone they see as a threat (legitimately or not), or settling old grudges. I don't see them as beneficial to anyone other than the select few in power.

[ColinP]

once again, would it be half as profitable if it were legal.......i think everyone knows the answer

we have to go beyond the whole "College kids need to stop smoking weed, then the drug war will be won" idea

we need to legalize marijuana, have it taxed by the gov and managed by the ATF then we take away money from the cartels

MY WEED IS GROWN IN THE GOOD OLD U.S.A AND THATS HOW IT SHOULD BE

BUY AMERICAN p-)

I doubt very much the gangs will allow any legal firm to take their profits, they will take over the business if made legal. The Hells Angels up here are just as likely to send 6 lawyers after you to bankrupt your business as they are to send a couple of guys to break your arm. The Hells Angels are almost reasonable to deal with compared to the new breed of gangsters who enjoy killing and maiming people, for the HA it was just business.

[WCF.KAS]

I doubt very much the gangs will allow any legal firm to take their profits, they will take over the business if made legal. The Hells Angels up here are just as likely to send 6 lawyers after you to bankrupt your business as they are to send a couple of guys to break your arm. The Hells Angels are almost reasonable to deal with compared to the new breed of gangsters who enjoy killing and maiming people, for the HA it was just business.
Well there are plenty of legitimate businesses that are used by organized crime, New York construction and waste management have a huge mafia presence......
We dont outlaw those industries because of the money they can provide to
criminals....
I would much rather have marijuana producers subject to business law and practices then have a multi billion dollar illegal industry where violance is the only way business disputes get handled.

But legalizing marijuana in the US would be more beneficial to the stopping mexican cartels than Canadian bikers I give you that....

That is because Mexican weed is so bad that if people are given a choice they will not smoke it
Let me put it like this....

If all you had available to you was mexican produce and goods you would use them to, but since you can go to a supermarket, you dont need to buy bathtub queso :):)

Back on topic....I heard all the narcos down there love FN five sevens and ridiculously long extended ak clips

[Flagg]

Unfortunately, these death squads may, or may not be started with the best of intentions, but they usually end up being no better than the groups they're opposing. They become nothing more than armed gangs of thugs eliminating anyone they see as a threat (legitimately or not), or settling old grudges. I don't see them as beneficial to anyone other than the select few in power.

I certainly don't disagree......but I think if the mass media coverage of the scale and violence associated with the problem is even remotely accurate then the likelihood of such a group or groups forming will be increasing significantly.