View Full Version : Corporal punishment rife in U.S. schools, report shows
LongShot
08-20-2008, 08:48 AM
Corporal punishment rife in U.S. schools, report shows
Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:33am EDT
By Ed Stoddard
DALLAS (*******) (http://www.*******.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN1931921320080820) - More than 200,000 children were hit as punishment in U.S. schools last year and in the South more blacks than whites are struck, two human rights groups said in a report released on Wednesday.
Texas accounted for a quarter of the instances of corporal punishment in the 2006-2007 school year, according to the study compiled by Human Rights Watch and the American Civil Liberties Union.
The report, titled "A Violent Education: Corporal Punishment of Children in U.S. Public Schools," plays into a debate in America about the effectiveness of corporal punishment and its role in the classroom and home.
Twenty-one U.S. states still permit the use of corporal punishment in schools. In Texas and Mississippi children as young as 3 are struck for transgressions as minor as gum chewing, the report says.
The punishment often involves hitting a child on the buttocks with a long wooden board, or paddle.
In 13 states in the U.S. South where corporal punishment is the most prevalent, African-American girls are twice as likely to be hit as their white counterparts, according to the 125-page report.
"African-American students are punished at 1.4 times the rate that would be expected given their numbers in the student population," the groups said in a statement.
Citing U.S. Department of Education data, the report said 223,190 students nationwide received corporal punishment at least once in the 2006-2007 school year. This included 49,197 students in Texas, the largest number of any state.
Minority students already face several barriers to success, said Alice Farmer, the report's author.
"By exposing these children to disproportionate rates of corporal punishment, schools create a hostile environment in which these students may struggle even more," Farmer said.
Some U.S. conservatives view moves to ban corporal punishment in school and spanking at home as "liberal permissiveness" which can lead to bad behavior and wider social problems such as juvenile delinquency.
Many liberal groups regard corporal punishment as a barbaric relic of an unenlightened past that harms self-esteem and promotes violence.
"Every public school needs effective methods of discipline but beating kids teaches violence and it doesn't stop bad behavior," Farmer said.
The report documented several cases in which children were seriously injured and said students with physical and mental disabilities were subjected to disproportionate rates of physical punishment.
The report includes witness accounts including one from the mother of a 3-year-old in Texas who was bruised after being struck at school.
"What made me so angry: he's 3 years old, he was petrified. He didn't want to go back to school and he didn't want to start his new school," the mother, referred to as Rose T, was quoted as saying.
(Editing by Chris Baltimore and David Storey)
I think there might be just a few catholic school kids that would disagree with corporal punishment not being effective....
Dominique
08-20-2008, 09:28 AM
Hell, I don't think it's applied enough. There are several idiots sitting in jail or prison right now, that if someone had put foot to assm when they were young, might not be locked up right now.
seraosha
08-20-2008, 10:34 AM
Every parent in Texas has to read and sign a document that explains the local ISD's policy on Corporal Punishment. They have the choice of whether or not to participate, or to allow their child to be spanked by the AP or P.
If parents do not respond, it defaults to "Ok to spank".
I decided that no one besides myself or my wife has the right to physically punish my kids, and stated it very clearly when returning the required paperwork to the school. I'll spank my own kids if there is a problem that warrants it. But I'm not surprised that a lot of parents don't bother to read what's sent home with their kids...or if English isn't their native language, literacy might come into play...but everything I've seen from the school is in two languages, so I believe that might not be an issue.
HRW and the ACLU are pretty much the last folks I want telling me or my schools how to educate and raise my kids to be productive citizens.
LongShot
08-20-2008, 10:42 AM
HRW and the ACLU are pretty much the last folks I want telling me or my schools how to educate and raise my kids to be productive citizens.
X2............The story is now running on CNN....they picked a real winner to interview about the "negatives" to this policy......apparently children need to be "challenged with school work" when they act up.........
panzrman
08-20-2008, 10:56 AM
Damn, I can still feel the smack of those paddles. All I know, is it seemed to work for me when growing up. I was also more scared of the one waiting for me at home , than I was of the schools paddling.
I love the forms in Texas that we have to sign. I always made sure my kids were sitting there at the table with me while doing so. Wanted to make sure they understood. They also understood that any of the friends of the family had the authority to lay a smack if they acted stupid or disrespectful.
Luckily, they learned early enough that they didn't really ever want to go that route again, and they are old enough now, that it is something we joke about.
I don't think any country in Europe allows it, and we have lower crime rates afaik.
LongShot
08-20-2008, 11:10 AM
I don't think any country in Europe allows it, and we have lower crime rates afaik.
They abolished in 2004/2005 (http://www.childreninwales.org.uk/2456.html).........though linking such things to the crime rate is a foolhardy endeavor......much too simplistic.
Carib
08-20-2008, 12:37 PM
By exposing these children to disproportionate rates of corporal punishment, schools create a hostile environment in which these students may struggle even more," Farmer said.
They probably deserved it... Like SnakeBiteLeader said Swing Away
LongShot
08-20-2008, 01:45 PM
Study finds minorities, kids with disabilities more likely to be paddled
By LIBBY QUAID
11:28 AM EDT, August 20, 2008
(http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-schools-corporal-punishment,0,1694.story)
WASHINGTON (AP) (http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-schools-corporal-punishment,0,1694.story) _ Paddlings, swats, licks. A quarter of a million schoolchildren got them last year — and blacks, American Indians and kids with disabilities got a disproportionate share of the punishment, according to a study by a human rights group.
Even little kids can be paddled. Heather Porter, who lives in Crockett, Texas, was startled to hear her little boy, then 3, say he'd been spanked at school. Porter was never told, despite a policy at the public preschool that parents be notified.
"We were pretty ticked off, to say the least. The reason he got paddled was because he was untying his shoes and playing with the air conditioner thermostat," Porter said. "He was being a 3-year-old."
For the study released Wednesday, Human Rights Watch and the American Civil Liberties Union used Education Department data to show that, while paddling has been declining, racial disparity persists. Researchers also interviewed students, parents and school personnel in Texas and Mississippi, states that account for 40 percent of the 223,190 kids who were paddled at least once in the 2006-2007 school year.
Porter could have filled out a form telling the school not to paddle her son, if only she had realized he might be paddled.
Yet many parents find that such forms are ignored, the study said.
Widespread paddling can make it unlikely that forms will be checked. A teacher interviewed by Human Rights Watch, Tiffany Bartlett, said that when she taught in the Mississippi Delta, the policy was to lock the classroom doors when the bell rang, leaving stragglers to be paddled by an administrator patrolling the hallways. Bartlett now is a school teacher in Austin, Texas.
And even if schools make a mistake, they are unlikely to face lawsuits. In places where corporal punishment is allowed, teachers and principals generally have legal immunity from assault laws, the study said.
"One of the things we've seen over and over again is that parents have difficulty getting redress, if a child is paddled and severely injured, or paddled in violation of parents' wishes," said Alice Farmer, the study's author.
A majority of states have outlawed it, but corporal punishment remains widespread across the South. Behind Texas and Mississippi were Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Florida and Missouri.
African American students are more than twice as likely to be paddled. The disparity persists even in places with large black populations, the study found. Similarly, Native Americans were more than twice as likely to be paddled, the study found.
The study also found:
—In states where paddling is most common, black girls were paddled more than twice as often as white girls.
—Boys are three times as likely to be paddled as girls.
—Special education kids were more likely to be paddled.
More than 100 countries worldwide have banned paddling in schools, including all of Europe, Farmer said. "International human rights law puts a pretty strong prohibition on corporal punishment," she said.
In rural Drew, Miss., Nickolaus Luckett still remembers the paddlings he got in fifth and seventh grades. One happened when he called a teacher by her first name, the other when a classmate said, wrongly, that he threw a spitball.
"I didn't get any bruises, but they still hurt, and from that point on, I told myself and my parents I wasn't going to take any more paddlings," said Luckett, who is about to be a sophomore at the University of Mississippi.
It's not an easy choice. In many schools, kids can avoid a paddling if they accept suspension or detention, or for younger kids, if they skip recess. But often, a child opts for the short-term sting of the paddle.
And sometimes teachers don't have the option of after-school detention, because there are no buses to take kids home later.
During the three years Evan Couzo taught in the Mississippi Delta, he refused to paddle kids, offering detention instead. But others — teachers, parents, even kids — were accustomed to paddling.
"Just about everyone at the beginning of the year said, 'If he or she gives you any trouble, you can paddle them. You can send them home, and I'll paddle them. Or you can have me come out to the school, and we can both paddle them.'
"It's really just a part of the culture of the school environment there," Couzo said.
There is scant research on whether paddling is effective in the classroom. But many studies have shown it doesn't work at home, said Elizabeth Gershoff, a University of Michigan associate professor of social work.
"The use of corporal punishment is associated almost overwhelmingly with negative effects, and that it increases children's problem behavior over time," Gershoff said.
Children may learn to solve problems using aggression, and a sense of resentment might make them act out more, Gershoff said.
The practice is banned in 29 states, most recently in Delaware and Pennsylvania. While some education groups haven't taken a position on the issue, the national PTA believes paddling should be banned everywhere.
"We teach our children that violence is wrong, yet corporal punishment teaches children that violence is a way to solve problems," said Jan Harp Domene, the group's president. "It perpetuates a cycle of child abuse. It teaches children to hit someone smaller and weaker when angry."
On the Net:
Human Rights Watch: www.hrw.org.
(This version CORRECTS Gershoff's title to associate professor.)
Pehaps the other side of the story, perhaps not.
RICHICOQUI
08-20-2008, 01:52 PM
There a couple kids who live near me i would like to smack upside thier heads!:slap:
Flagg
08-20-2008, 06:59 PM
I think there might be just a few catholic school kids that would disagree with corporal punishment not being effective....
Bingo!
It worked for ME........the Nuns had some pretty lax ROEs in the 1970's :)
BUT......my two wee fellas.......if a penguin did to them what was done to me it would be the LAST thing they ever do.
Authority and leadership can be achieved without having to resort to violence as punishment......be creative.....negative reinforcement can be a useful and effective learning tool
My wife and I are in complete agreement that the ONLY time we will consider giving our children a light smack is:
1.) If their personal safety or the safety of others due to their actions is at immediate risk
2.) A smack is ONLY to achieve their full and undivided attention...NOT to inflict injury or as a "blowoff valve" for US
Unfortunately, THAT is actually illegal now in NZ :(
Our kids are 3.5 and 2, and to be honest I think they are fast approaching the stage where a smack is unnecessary for any reason and for one of them has pretty much not even been an option in even the most extreme circumstances.
While I think back to the different times in the 1970's when smacking the sh!t out of kids in school was not just accepted but a daily occurance......I think the same objectives and outcomes could have been achieved, and quite possibly surpassed(yes I know Monday Morning Quarterbacking) by more creative uses of negative reinforcement.
For example....my youngest boy(2).......he's a staunch wee man with exceptionally high pain tolerance......if his day doesn't include half a dozen bruises from playing rough he hasn't had much fun.....so a smack to him is pretty much completely ineffective and useless........but place him in his room completely alone for a two minute timeout for being naughty and he turns from a stubborn little mongrel into a compliant little boy more than willing to cooperate with mum and dad.
One thing proponents of corporal punishment(to be specific, hitting/smacking/spanking) often fail to acknowledge........is that for many........it is a useless form of punishment....the quick and EASY way out for those being punished.
Being hit as a kid worked to a certain extent, until the moment I realised that a couple seconds of pain is cake compared to a couple hours of getting jacked around after school doing chut work for the penguins.
Fortunately(or unfortunately :) ), I had a couple of teachers that understood different strokes for different folks :)
brainplay
08-21-2008, 01:02 AM
Guys, the only reason this made the news if for one sentence out of the entire thing.
More than 200,000 children were hit as punishment in U.S. schools last year and in the South more blacks than whites are struck, two human rights groups said in a report released on Wednesday.
Trying to find a story about racism in the south without listing the facts makes for good ratings especially when "the children" are involved. In some cases the parents feel that this lets them off of the hook for disciplining their own children instead leaving it up to the schools to handle the parenting.
Parents these days haven't grown up themselves.
phigment
08-21-2008, 07:17 PM
My dad used to come and spank me at school if I misbehaved enough to merit a call from the AP. Saved them the trouble.
I had a high school English teacher who was a retired Marine and made us do push-ups or laps for breaking minor rules like dress code and stuff.
eskachig
08-22-2008, 01:20 AM
For the most part it's the poor areas with low-performing districts that still spank. Doesn't seem to be doing the job now does it?
When I have kids I'll have a very simple policy - you hit my kids I break your face. Doesn't matter whether you're a principal or a crackhead in the street.
I'm not even against corporal punishment, but if anyone's going to be applying it it will be me.
That said, I'd never live in a school district like this if I had kids anyway.
El Diablo Rojo
08-25-2008, 07:37 AM
I had a high school English teacher who was a retired Marine and made us do push-ups or laps for breaking minor rules like dress code and stuff.
My old history teacher was ex-Army infantry and was like that. Swearing, interrupting a lecture, missing when throwing stuff into the trash-can... all leads to pushups.
By the end of the year we were actually a very well-behaved class.
brainplay
08-25-2008, 10:22 PM
For the most part it's the poor areas with low-performing districts that still spank. Doesn't seem to be doing the job now does it?
When I have kids I'll have a very simple policy - you hit my kids I break your face. Doesn't matter whether you're a principal or a crackhead in the street.
I'm not even against corporal punishment, but if anyone's going to be applying it it will be me.
That said, I'd never live in a school district like this if I had kids anyway.
Read the above posts, sir. You have to give approval for the school to use corporal punishment. There is no school district in the country that can use corporal punishment without parent consent.
If you break a teacher or principal's face you will be arrested and thrown in a cell where a fellow resident probably named "Paco" may use corporal punishment lovingly on you without the proper forms when the jailhouse guards aren't looking. Please keep the tough talk to a minimum until you have kids and suddenly have a total revision of your "response policies".
Look on the bright side, at least the schools that do practice it don't use "switches" anymore. p-)
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~elkridge/spanking.jpg
Ought Six
08-25-2008, 10:48 PM
I am all in favor of switches being vigorously applied to the backsides of Human Rights Watch and American Civil Liberties Union members. After all, it seems that they should get the full experience of what they are decrying, so they know what they are talking about. p-)
The statistics are amazing on this.90% of people that are into S&M and ****** role-playing went to catholic schools.
T3ngu
08-25-2008, 10:54 PM
I went to a school where corporal punishment was a condition of entry, that is if you don't agree to it, don't send your kids there.
It was a good motivator to behave.
Its not such a bad thing IMHO.
In 13 states in the U.S. South where corporal punishment is the most prevalent, African-American girls are twice as likely to be hit as their white counterparts, according to the 125-page report.
Yep...and?
I attended a very very diverse school system in the South and there is a logical reason behind this fact above.
Classroom conduct. End of debate. :P
Though I was good... I'd prefer getting a paddling at school as opposed to having a note sent home to mom and dad.
Swing away!
brainplay
08-26-2008, 06:51 PM
Though I was good... I'd prefer getting a paddling at school as opposed to having a note sent home to mom and dad.
Swing away!
Never got a paddling at school myself although I would have greatly traded a lightweight paddling to the whoopings my dad could give. I held a decent fear of thick leather cowboy belts through most of my adolescence. :)
The sound of leather snapping when you do the O-shaped loop trick with the belt will shut up any kid within hearing range. Even those that aren't going to get it.
They abolished in 2004/2005 (http://www.childreninwales.org.uk/2456.html).........though linking such things to the crime rate is a foolhardy endeavor......much too simplistic.
Well, different worlds. In Europe it's regarded as barbaric.
To me it's a sign of failure if you feel you have to hit a kid. In my own experience seriously grabbing a kid is more than enough.
In the military there was a bit of physical corrections going on though. Morons who got a "friendly" kick here and there to make it stick.
Though I was good... I'd prefer getting a paddling at school as opposed to having a note sent home to mom and dad.
Swing away!
:D
RS_Leo1A5
08-27-2008, 01:49 PM
Violence against children is the second lowest human behavior (****** abuse of children being the lowest).
Here in Germany a teacher caught doing it would most likely never work as a teacher again and probably lose his status as public official. And that's only the disciplinary measure. Criminal prosecution for battery would follow.
I just can't understand this double standard - assaulting an adult is a crime but assaulting a child is "acceptable punishment"?
There is no school district in the country that can use corporal punishment without parent consent.
This is objectively not true. It is widely the rule but I personally know of one North Georgia and one Tennessee school system that apply corporal punishment without specific parental consent. They disclose that all students are subject to it unless the parents opt out which is not the same as consent. Sorry to blow that one up I know it spoils your story.
hank
pInGu
08-27-2008, 01:59 PM
I don't think any country in Europe allows it, and we have lower crime rates afaik.
Thats what I thought :)
I can't remember being physically punished ever and surprisingly I'm not a massmurderer. It's proven useless anyway. But if you belive in it :bash: just beat the hell out of your kids.
Maybe some day even Americans will learn, that your kid is not your property ;) . Spending time and talking with your kids is way more effective. But unfortunatly you can't watch TV and eat fast-food meanwhile p-) - you really have to be there for them :petting:
Macs.
08-27-2008, 02:03 PM
That this even happens in any civilized country is pretty embrassing.
Thats what I thought :)
I can't remember being physically punished ever and surprisingly I'm not a massmurderer. It's proven useless anyway. But if you belive in it :bash: just beat the hell out of your kids.
Maybe some day even Americans will learn, that your kid is not your property ;) . Spending time and talking with your kids is way more effective. But unfortunatly you can't watch TV and eat fast-food meanwhile p-) - you really have to be there for them :petting:
Hmmm, yeah. My parents were nothing like that.
That was a really sober assessment, btw. :roll:
wicked_hind
08-27-2008, 02:18 PM
I don't have a problem with corporal punishment, so long as it's only applied when it's necessary, and with the full consent of the student's parents, and when no other form of punishment (detention, in-school suspension, letters to parents) does not achieve any positive change in the student's behavior.
My ass still twinges in terror at the thought of Coach Renfro's leather-padded paddle, and my only encounter with it.
Revolveri
08-27-2008, 02:55 PM
Well it seems most of the Europeans here are condemning corporal punishment, I'll have to follow similar lines. Should the child have any trouble at school it's the parents' responsibility to discipline the children. All the school should do is notify the parents and if the child's a serious troublemaker they can suspend him/her. It very rarely goes to that point in Finland, we have school counsellors that can be talked to about any problems you might have. Usually if the child makes trouble he/she has some underlying issue which might just get worse if you paddle and humiliate him/her.
I'm not an expert on the issue but like someone said it's really double faced to allow physically punishing a child while if you did the same thing to an adult you'd face a big fat fine at least. Can you imagine a judge paddling a person proven guilty in the court room :roll::)
LongShot
08-27-2008, 03:01 PM
Well it seems most of the Europeans here are condemning corporal punishment, I'll have to follow similar lines. Should the child have any trouble at school it's the parents' responsibility to discipline the children. All the school should do is notify the parents and if the child's a serious troublemaker they can suspend him/her. It very rarely goes to that point in Finland, we have school counsellors that can be talked to about any problems you might have. Usually if the child makes trouble he/she has some underlying issue which might just get worse if you paddle and humiliate him/her.
Bravo to Europe.....
Corporal punishment in the US is not rife.....quite the oppisite in fact...its only practiced in a few states.
We have school counsellors too.........
I'm not an expert on the issue but like someone said it's really double faced to allow physically punishing a child while if you did the same thing to an adult you'd face a big fat fine at least. Can you imagine a judge paddling a person proven guilty in the court room :roll::)
There are more than a few countries in the world that have corporal punishment for crimes.....
Revolveri
08-27-2008, 03:12 PM
Bravo to Europe...
Bravo to Europe? I just noted that it seems Europeans are more concerned with human rights in general than US people are. At least on mp.net or then the US human rights activists are hiding on some other threads.
We have school counsellors too.........
Never said you hadn't. Good that you have though.
There are more than a few countries in the world that have corporal punishment for crimes.....
Indeed? Does it justify physically punishing children?
LongShot
08-27-2008, 03:16 PM
Bravo to Europe? I just noted that it seems Europeans are more concerned with human rights in general than US people are. At least on mp.net or then the US human rights activists are hiding on some other threads.
It might be Mp.net....The US exports more than a few human rights organizations to every dirty corner of the world....the clean corners too.
Indeed? Does it justify physically punishing children?
Ask them.
phigment
08-27-2008, 04:17 PM
Indeed? Does it justify physically punishing children?
It depends on their age. Small children get a good lesson out of a swat on the behind. Once you get older it doesn't work as well as a punishment as it did when you were four. There's also a difference between punishment and abuse that needs to be taken into account.
brainplay
08-27-2008, 10:52 PM
This is objectively not true. It is widely the rule but I personally know of one North Georgia and one Tennessee school system that apply corporal punishment without specific parental consent. They disclose that all students are subject to it unless the parents opt out which is not the same as consent. Sorry to blow that one up I know it spoils your story.
hank
I don't get worked up if someone shoots me down with facts instead of opinions. It just means I have swallow some humble pie and add new info to my database/brain. So no worries there Hank. :)
Although just to addle you a bit, the consent is implied by not opting out which is the parent's responsibility to handle. Not giving then an option would be a "no consent" rule. ;-)
I find that the european way of looking at "the children" is very different. When I lived in Spain they had no problems taking a hand to their kids rear end. When I visited the UK and Italy they had strong connotations against it. Granted though, their kids are screwed up in plenty of other ways.
It just goes to show that different cultures view things in a different light.
Macs.
08-28-2008, 06:26 AM
I find that the european way of looking at "the children" is very different. When I lived in Spain they had no problems taking a hand to their kids rear end. When I visited the UK and Italy they had strong connotations against it. Granted though, their kids are screwed up in plenty of other ways.
It just goes to show that different cultures view things in a different light.
Even within the EU the cultures and laws may vary, however I doubt there is any country within the EU that officially allows corporal punishment.
And let's just say that countries without corporal punishment and often "relaxed" connections between Teacher and Pupils, for example nordic european countries, are outranking others in terms of education and low crime rates. If there is a connection between this and corporal punishment, I don't know, but there are societies which somehow are raising educated and good citizens without corporal punishment.
Revolveri
08-28-2008, 06:41 AM
Hehe, well in Finland nobody Sirs or Ma'ams the teachers anymore based on my own experiences in school. Usually if you had to call out to the teacher you'd just say Teacher plainly. I remember in 1-6th grade we still had to rise up and say "Good Morning Teacher" every morning but since secondary school or vocational school nobody does it. The relationship between teachers and students is very relaxed and the respect goes both ways usually, it often depends on the teacher.
Sergei
08-28-2008, 07:02 AM
Why do they beat children at schools in the "beacon of democracy"?
It is inhuman and is not sound from pedagogical point of view.
digrar
08-28-2008, 07:02 AM
BUT......my two wee fellas.....
he's a staunch wee man
You're such a Kiwi. p-)
I managed to get through school without being hit, the threat was there for the first 5 years of my schooling and it was pretty effective, but I don't think it was necessary, we were instilled with a healthy respect for our teachers and I think that was a lot more effective.
I also grew up in a small community, the teachers were friends of all of our parents, if we were acting up it would get home and Bia's comment comes into play then, sometimes it would be better to cop it at school. p-)
hughdotoh
08-28-2008, 10:35 PM
In our (Catholic) elementary school most teachers were little old women with mean tempers, and the kids just won't even think of raising trouble around them.
But IMHO if your kid makes enough trouble to deserve a switching in school, maybe he wasn't taught enough respect for elders at home. Out here in Asia, teachers are given much respect. Making them lose face means they have to regain it physically, and parents won't mind a little tough love from teacher.
My knowledge about kids is limited. But based on my own childhood I do know that I did everything to not disappoint my parents, like I think most kids do. And my parents always backed me up, like I think most parents do.
I'll teach any future kids of mine to do their best and respect authority, but always walk with a straight back and a firm handshake. We have never been anyone's cattle to which they could lay their hands on with impunity, and by God we never will be.
Revolveri
08-29-2008, 04:41 AM
My knowledge about kids is limited. But based on my own childhood I do know that I did everything to not disappoint my parents, like I think most kids do. And my parents always backed me up, like I think most parents do.
I'll teach any future kids of mine to do their best and respect authority, but always walk with a straight back and a firm handshake. We have never been anyone's cattle to which they could lay their hands on with impunity, and by God we never will be.
Here, here! woot
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