IOC to investigate Chinese Gymnast's Age

[Hilbert]

Thursday, Aug 21, 2008 4:42 pm EDT
IOC orders investigation into He Kexin's age

By Chris Chase

The International Olympic Committee has ordered an investigation into the age of Chinese gymnast He Kexin (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/olympics/article4583174.ece?token=null&offset=0&page=1), The Times of London reports. Faced with almost insurmountable evidence which suggests that He is two years younger than the birth date listed on her Chinese passport, the IOC has launched an inquiry that could result in the stripping of He's gold medals.
This news comes on the heels of another Times report that details the findings of a New York computer security expert (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/olympics/article4578241.ece) who found official Chinese documents that list He's age as 14 years and 220 days. Mike Walker (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/nzl/mike+walker/219224/) used a Chinese search engine's cache feature to find He's actual date of birth on spreadsheets from a Chinese government website. The spreadsheets were taken down off the site recently and He's name had been removed.
Assuming the IOC is committed to a real investigation and not some dog and pony show, the revelation that the Chinese government covered up the ages of gymnasts could end up being the defining moment of these Games for the host country. Officials wanted the Olympics to be a coming out party for a new China (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/chn/). But while the Games have been a huge success, there is a legitimate possibility that China's legacy from Beijing '08 will be that of a massive government cover-up, not the magical Opening Ceremony or the transformation of Beijing or anything else positive.
All the good work China did to put on these Olympics could be forgotten because of an unnecessary, arrogant move by the government. Why risk everything to put a 14-year old in the competition when they could have replaced her with an of-age 16-year old gymnast? Sure, He is a better gymnast than the Chinese gymnasts who were eligible to compete, but with the judges they had at the Olympics, would it really have mattered?
Photo via ***** Images
Important note: Commenting on our posts is welcome and encouraged, but please keep language and tone civil. Also, some commenters have taken to impersonating Fourth-Place Medal writers. Please note that our writers would never post objectionable material on the blog or in the comments.

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/blog/fourth_place_medal/post/IOC-orders-investigation-into-He-Kexin-s-age?urn=oly,102564

[Winger]

They definitely had underage girls there. Just look at this pic?

http://www.foxnews.com/images/416565/1_61_081308_olympics04.jpg (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,403584,00.html#)

Yeah, not one of them is under 14. :roll:

[SkyUS]

^
The Baby Teeth Team

[Andrew Chalmers]

There's no doubt that the Chinese team may have falsified the age of some of their athletes... but let's not critique the athletes based on how they look.

East Asians don't age the same way & gymnasts certainly aren't selected for their maturing bodies. Team USA fielded athletes who were 16 - but I would judge to be 13 without makeup.

One of my female colleagues, who happened to be East Asian, was accosted at a gas station for trying to pay for items with a credit card because the attendant thought she looked no older than 9. She was approach her 30s - thankfully we were around to back her up.

Chris Chase and that Russian-American commentator is a douche - even if he is advocating the right thing (investigating the age). Don't judge the athletes by how they look.

[Mastermind]

Why not judge them by how they look? If they are under age and yet competing by fraud, they should be disqualified. Besides, it may have been the "Baby tooth" look that started the questioning that leads to an ugly truth. If the fairness of the games are proven to be in question, why bother to compete? The Olympics are supposed to be better than this!

AS for china having a "Coming Out Party" through these olymic contests to show what a lovely paradise she is...hog crap! China is a Communist Thug of a nation...and Communits know how to do only one thing...lie cheat and steal. They suppress the human condition...they depress human individuality. Communists are too easily ashamed of their reality to show the truth of what they are.

Fraud is their nature and they can never deny their nature. It simply is what they are.

[Andrew Chalmers]

Why not judge them by how they look?

I think you missed my point - different people age differently. And honestly? People generally are not very good at judging the age of another race.

There is sufficient evidence to show that two or three of the athletes were below 16 - but there is amble evidence that the others are over 16. Two of the controversial athletes are probably 14 or 15 - but honestly? Give them two years of development and they'll still seem the same way.

The "look at them! little girls" attitude is incredibly arrogant - basically assumes that everyone physically matures at the same age or in the same manner.

[deagle]

its hard to say "they don't look their age", when Western girls don't look their age either (13 yrs old looking 16, 16 looking 18, 18 looking older). if they wanted to file a complaint they should've done it prior or even during, not after. records/numbers dont' mean squat anyways in anything, like our broken popular/v\electoral votes. A 3rd thing, Big China wouldn't want a scandal during these olympics for which they hold sacred and in high regard.

[SBL]

Trust but verify.

[Bia]

I'm 23 and look 16/17.

Moot point.

[BloodyTalon]

I think you missed my point - different people age differently. And honestly? People generally are not very good at judging the age of another race.

There is sufficient evidence to show that two or three of the athletes were below 16 - but there is amble evidence that the others are over 16. Two of the controversial athletes are probably 14 or 15 - but honestly? Give them two years of development and they'll still seem the same way.

The "look at them! little girls" attitude is incredibly arrogant - basically assumes that everyone physically matures at the same age or in the same manner.
Actually, it probably has less to do about their race and more that they're gymnasts. If you train that heavily at a young age, your body's growth is gonna slow down, hence why gymnasts look a few years younger than they really are.

The investigation, however, isn't because the team looks like a bunch of Miley Cyrus fans. The fact that official documents from the Chinese team showed that two of the girls were underaged is proof enough that something illegal is going on.

[Zoomie]

A 3rd thing, Big China wouldn't want a scandal during these olympics for which they hold sacred and in high regard.

If that's truly the case, then explain the opening ceremony shenanigans.

[Ordie]

AS for china having a "Coming Out Party" through these olymic contests to show what a lovely paradise she is...hog crap! China is a Communist Thug of a nation...and Communits know how to do only one thing...lie cheat and steal. They suppress the human condition...they depress human individuality. Communists are too easily ashamed of their reality to show the truth of what they are.

Fraud is their nature and they can never deny their nature. It simply is what they are.

Mastermind,

Its all about 'saving face'
Not to the world, but to thier own population.

Alot is riding on the legitimacy of the leadership. They don't want to take risks in losing in front of an audience of 1 billion.

[Paddy51]

New Olympic event = Synchronised diaper/nappy changing?

[Calanen]

its hard to say "they don't look their age", when Western girls don't look their age either (13 yrs old looking 16, 16 looking 18, 18 looking older). if they wanted to file a complaint they should've done it prior or even during, not after. records/numbers dont' mean squat anyways in anything, like our broken popular/v\electoral votes. A 3rd thing, Big China wouldn't want a scandal during these olympics for which they hold sacred and in high regard.


HA! All of the records were created before the Olympics, long before, and included articles about this wonderful child athlete competing in regional tournaments - and gave her date of birth showing she is 14. They all got it wrong before?

For the glory of the motherland, the Chinese government will create false passports and documents that now legally say this gymnast is 16. But no matter how powerful China is, they can not go back in time to change previous documentary evidence that she is underage.

You think the same China that ran over democracy protestors with tanks is gonna care about changing the age of a gymnast to win a Gold medal?

[Othree52]

I dunno, I've been stationed in Japan(Camp Fuji), and Okinawa(Shwabo, Kadena) and pulled some shore duty in Korea and Indonesia. From my experience and the experience of others I've known, Asian women look about 15 years younger than western women. I don't think the Chinese are bullsh*tin' around.

But with the all out effort to have the most memorable opening in Olympics history, one may wonder how far the all out effort may extend and to what degree....If 10 years from now one of the girls comes out with a birth certificate proving that she was underage, I wont be surprised however.

But I'm still about 93% sure that those Chinese girls are legit............

[Ratamacue]

I dunno, I've been stationed in Japan(Camp Fuji), and Okinawa(Shwabo, Kadena) and pulled some shore duty in Korea and Indonesia. From my experience and the experience of others I've known, Asian women look about 15 years younger than western women. I don't think the Chinese are bullsh*tin' around.

But with the all out effort to have the most memorable opening in Olympics history, one may wonder how far the all out effort may extend and to what degree....If 10 years from now one of the girls comes out with a birth certificate proving that she was underage, I wont be surprised however.

But I'm still about 93% sure that those Chinese girls are legit............Again, because some of you don't seem to be getting it, the controversy is not solely fueled by the physical appearances of the gymnasts in question. There is documentation and news articles from past gymnastics events that clearly state three of them to be under 16 at the end of 2008.

[timetraveller]

If Children of their age are allowed to appear on tv/films / stage and other Children who play to vast Audiences during concert tours .. then i don't see what the effing fuss is about if an althelete being a supposed age .. which wins a gold medal or any medal

You win a medal you become scrutinsed ..all because you may look a certain age ...

[Bia]

There is documentation and news articles from past gymnastics events that clearly state three of them to be under 16 at the end of 2008.If this is the case...why did the Olympic org. allow them to compete?

[Winger]

I dunno, I've been stationed in Japan(Camp Fuji), and Okinawa(Shwabo, Kadena) and pulled some shore duty in Korea and Indonesia. From my experience and the experience of others I've known, Asian women look about 15 years younger than western women. I don't think the Chinese are bullsh*tin' around.

But with the all out effort to have the most memorable opening in Olympics history, one may wonder how far the all out effort may extend and to what degree....If 10 years from now one of the girls comes out with a birth certificate proving that she was underage, I wont be surprised however.

But I'm still about 93% sure that those Chinese girls are legit............

That explains all the fellow Marines getting into trouble in Okinawa. p-)

[bugkill]

I'm not shocked that the IOC office and China have decided to cover this up. There is too much evidence that questions He's age, but the IOC ends their investigation in 12 hours, which now calls into question the IOC's actions. I'm not saying all of this because the American team would get gold, and Luikin would get the gold she EARNED in the uneven bars, but that it is painfully obvious that the chinese have cheated.

This would be the biggest black eye that China could get and the Olympic committee is trying to avoid the scandal, but they underestimate the power of the press, and they will be all over this fake investigation. I'm not shocked by the cover-up, I saw it coming miles away.

[SBL]

I'm 23 and look 16/17.

Moot point.
Congratulations.

[Mastermind]

If this is the case...why did the Olympic org. allow them to compete?
That is a good question...Mainly because it is not an "IF" case.... it is an "IS" case. The chinese even wiped the web site that listed the age of the girls...but not before the journalists found it and down loaded the info...now, expect the Chinese to call everyone a liar and a propagandist.

[Curtis E. Bear]

Do people really care this much? The fact that she's 1 or 2 years younger than what she's supposed to be makes her ability as a gymnast even more remarkable considering her Olympic performance.

[SBL]

Do people really care this much? The fact that she's 1 or 2 years younger than what she's supposed to be makes her ability as a gymnast even more remarkable considering her Olympic performance.
Rules are rules. I know if I had spent the last 4+ years of my life training for the Olympics, I'd expect that my competitors would have the respect and good sense not to cheat.

[Winger]

Do people really care this much? The fact that she's 1 or 2 years younger than what she's supposed to be makes her ability as a gymnast even more remarkable considering her Olympic performance.

There is a reason why the age limit is set. Has not much to do that it is amazing that one can perform a certain task at a certain age. Wait another four years and she might be even better.

The reasoning behind the age limit may be questionable but its set and everyone has to abide by it. This would be no different than doping IMO.

[0rphie]

Rules are rules. I know if I had spent the last 4+ years of my life training for the Olympics, I'd expect that my competitors would have the respect and good sense not to cheat.

Another analogy might be a heavyweight boxer shaves a "few" pounds form his weight to fight a lightweight boxer. The result of a fight is very predictable. Cheating is cheating! If a young gymnast wants to participate in a competition there are other possibilities.

[Curtis E. Bear]

I fully agree that rules are rules etc and the competitor should be stripped of their medals if it is found that they have done something wrong. However, my personal opinion is I couldn't care less how old they are if they show that level of talent.

It would be pretty annoying if I had spent 4+ years training for an event only to be beaten by a 14 year old.

[SBL]

I fully agree that rules are rules etc and the competitor should be stripped of their medals if it is found that they have done something wrong. However, my personal opinion is I couldn't care less how old they are if they show that level of talent.

It would be pretty annoying if I had spent 4+ years training for an event only to be beaten by a 14 year old.

That's the operative phrase. It's about whats fair for the competitors, not what Curtis E. Bear thinks.

[-CROAT-SOLDIER-]

China is a Communist Thug of a nation...and Communits know how to do only one thing...lie cheat and steal. They suppress the human condition...they depress human individuality. Communists are too easily ashamed of their reality to show the truth of what they are.

Fraud is their nature and they can never deny their nature. It simply is what they are.

Kind of sick of hearing this communist is bad, communist this and that. Honestly if you think your government and other "Western" governments don't lie to you[s] you are wrong and one nieve individual.

[Ordie]

Kind of sick of hearing this communist is bad, communist this and that. Honestly if you think your government and other "Western" governments don't lie to you[s] you are wrong and one nieve individual.

At least we have a choice of liars to pick from.

[-CROAT-SOLDIER-]

At least we have a choice of liars to pick from.

I can agree with that, very well said. Though I not saying that China is any better, or vise versa, pretty much every country is the "same" when it comes to liars.

[Macs.]

Do people really care this much? The fact that she's 1 or 2 years younger than what she's supposed to be makes her ability as a gymnast even more remarkable considering her Olympic performance.

Let's just let me take a guess and say that you have absolute no ****ing clue what performance means in the sport that they were starting in.

2 years do make a difference. Weight and Height make a HUGE different. The age between 14 and 16 IS making a difference, it's when kids and especially female bodies are (in most cases anyway) changing massvily. (<-Oh god.)

[vinny_121_ND]

Kind of sick of hearing this communist is bad, communist this and that. Honestly if you think your government and other "Western" governments don't lie to you[s] you are wrong and one nieve individual.

True. Democratic or communist government, they all lie and cheat, some more significant than others. China is getting better slowly on cracking down on corruption.

[Macs.]

I can agree with that, very well said. Though I not saying that China is any better, or vise versa, pretty much every country is the "same" when it comes to liars.

I don't think you can possible compare the level of Chinas manipulation with any western country.

[-CROAT-SOLDIER-]

I don't think you can possible compare the level of Chinas manipulation with any western country.

What like "weapons of mass destruction" in Iraq? I'm sorry but I don't believe one bit of it, it was an excuse to be there, and I strongly disagree with American soldiers (and it's allies) dieing and fighting in Iraq for some petty lies.

Edit: Lets keep this to pm's, I do not intend to hijack this thread & will get back on topic.

[Jaegermeister + Red Bull]

If you meet a chick at a nightclub and she tells you she is 18 but looks 16, she is really 14 (...next week). And I am not speaking from personal experience, so no need to call the dob in a perv hotline.

Just my 2ct, when it comes down to it, not going to argue the rights and wrongs...

Passport with real or fake birthday on it will trump google.com image jpeg anyday of the week.

That is what the IOC going to conclude, unless somehow her birth certificate shows up and/or her national ID card.

Then again I know you can pay 500~5000 RMB and get fakes of both of the above from your local friendly PSB office.

[Jobu]

Nothing will come of this because the investigation is a joke. They are only doing this so the IOC has deniability when they say "well, we looked into it."

The whole world knows that girl is not 16.

[California Joe]

The IOC is one of the most corrupt scumbag organizations in the frigging world. Please. Their entire focus is "How much can I get wined and dined and have my **** sucked by potential host countries in between the games..."

[timetraveller]

The IOC is one of the most corrupt scumbag organizations in the frigging world. Please. Their entire focus is "How much can I get wined and dined and have my **** sucked by potential host countries in between the games..."


I completely agree ,, and having bmx riding as a Olympic sport is nothing more than shambolic ...


And disgraceful

[California Joe]

I like the bmx racing. It takes a lot of weed fueled guts to get out there and get run over. It's certainly far more athletic and fun to watch than ping pong or synchro swimming or that fake gymnastics with the ribbons. Male field hockey should be outlawed too, or give them longer sticks at least. It's a chick sport unless you're wearing skates and know who Bobby Orr was.

[Winger]

I like the bmx racing. It takes a lot of weed fueled guts to get out there and get run over. It's certainly far more athletic and fun to watch than ping pong or synchro swimming or that fake gymnastics with the ribbons. Male field hockey should be outlawed too, or give them longer sticks at least. It's a chick sport unless you're wearing skates and know who Bobby Orr was.

rofl

Joe never ceases to ignite my laughter.

We should start a "Most Ghey events at the Olympics" thread.

[edi213009]

its just disgusting this fact.for sure they are under age.c'mon i can accept the fact that asian body parameters aint the same as black or caucasian but here smth's wrong.If they were 16+ they should show some kind of growth sign,normal during adolescence or puberty.It was funny too,the chinese delegate who said they aren't minors,you can see their passports.And who the fuk says they didnt false those passP?They playing home and thats it.Next games in London you'll see that they wont win half of what they wining.

[Macs.]

The IOC is one of the most corrupt scumbag organizations in the frigging world. Please. Their entire focus is "How much can I get wined and dined and have my **** sucked by potential host countries in between the games..."

Joe, no one believes that you are only 45. Stop slinging mud at the IOC !

[Mastermind]

I like the bmx racing. It takes a lot of weed fueled guts to get out there and get run over. It's certainly far more athletic and fun to watch than ping pong or synchro swimming or that fake gymnastics with the ribbons. Male field hockey should be outlawed too, or give them longer sticks at least. It's a chick sport unless you're wearing skates and know who Bobby Orr was.
Gdmnit, Joe! Made me splut beer on my keyboard...Coors, too! woot

[Kaapeli]

If this is the case...why did the Olympic org. allow them to compete?

I remember reading that originally there was doubt about the age of some of the girls (due to their immature looks) but because the Chinese presented authentic and official documentation they had to let them compete.
There's no scientific method to accurately verify or dispute the ages of these girls so they have to trust their nations official documentation.

[Ratamacue]

If this is the case...why did the Olympic org. allow them to compete?Because the IOC deferred to the FIG (International Federation of Gymnastics) to approve the credentials of competing gymnasts. And all the FIG requires to verify their age is a government-issued passport. It wasn't until later, as the Olympics approached, that independent organizations and the media began investigating the age of the Chinese gymnasts, and began to uncover evidence that some of them are underage.

[cbreedon]

A communist country that has institutionalized cheating in the Olympics... Wow have never seen that before. ;-)

[Winger]

I remember reading that originally there was doubt about the age of some of the girls (due to their immature looks) but because the Chinese presented authentic and official documentation they had to let them compete.
There's no scientific method to accurately verify or dispute the ages of these girls so they have to trust their nations official documentation.

Your paperz, are not in order......

[deagle]

if they are under 16, then there MUST be WMDs (still) in iraq .

[FIA_cn]

Why not judge them by how they look? If they are under age and yet competing by fraud, they should be disqualified. Besides, it may have been the "Baby tooth" look that started the questioning that leads to an ugly truth. If the fairness of the games are proven to be in question, why bother to compete? The Olympics are supposed to be better than this!

AS for china having a "Coming Out Party" through these olymic contests to show what a lovely paradise she is...hog crap! China is a Communist Thug of a nation...and Communits know how to do only one thing...lie cheat and steal. They suppress the human condition...they depress human individuality. Communists are too easily ashamed of their reality to show the truth of what they are.

Fraud is their nature and they can never deny their nature. It simply is what they are.

oh come on, if China lose in these games, there probably no whining about age issue at all.

[Rakki]

oh come on, if China lose in these games, there probably no whining about age issue at all.

Seeing cheaters lose is justice served.
Seeing cheaters win just encourages cheating.

[brainplay]

oh come on, if China lose in these games, there probably no whining about age issue at all.

Maybe yes, maybe no. Most protests happen if there is something fishy about the winners. Gymnastics, diving, ice skating. The flexibility that the young age provides in developing young bodies gives them an edge over older athletes who lose flexibility as they get older.

Really wish the age would be knocked to 18. They got like a junior olympics don't they? Put the teens in that.

[FIA_cn]

Seeing cheaters lose is justice served.
Seeing cheaters win just encourages cheating.

well, you just assume this "age report" issue is reliable and never doubt about its authenticity, right? let along the fact that asians teens are trend to look younger.

[SBL]

well, you just assume this "age report" issue is reliable and never doubt about its authenticity, right? let along the fact that asians teens are trend to look younger.

I think given their appearance and some apparent discrepancies in earlier reports regarding age,an investigation is warranted.
If they're really 16, then they've got nothing to worry about.
Why not let the investigation take its course?

[nullterm]

They got busted red handed. There was documentation on China's own sites. Plus other coaches remember that they were like 12 only 2 years ago at international competitions.

Will the IOC do anything about it? No, they're too busy counting their yuans. It's sad an organization as tainted as the IOC is in charge of the Olympics.

[SBL]

They got busted red handed. There was documentation on China's own sites. Plus other coaches remember that they were like 12 only 2 years ago at international competitions.

Will the IOC do anything about it? No, they're too busy counting their yuans. It's sad an organization as tainted as the IOC is in charge of the Olympics.
Yeah, they're totally busted. I was just trying to be polite.

[FIA_cn]

They got busted red handed. There was documentation on China's own sites. Plus other coaches remember that they were like 12 only 2 years ago at international competitions.

Will the IOC do anything about it? No, they're too busy counting their yuans. It's sad an organization as tainted as the IOC is in charge of the Olympics.

link please.

[Lusitania]

Many of you fail to understand how big a difference age can make in gymnastics. Simply put, though the older girl may have more technical experience (although, considering the age of which the Chinese girls begin to be trained, is unlikely) in certain events, younger girls are able to do things that older girls can no longer do. The differences between a 14 year old and 16 year old are tremendous (just ask any female gymnast), especially considering the flexibility factor; developing 16 year old girls many a time are not as flexible or agile as they were when they were 14, and understandably so. That extra flexibility and increased agility provides for better balance and "flashier" displays in jumps and twisting, which can be used to increase the said gymnast's score. So when a lot of you say that age shouldn't matter and skill should only matter, that is an incredible folly in thought, because age makes a huge difference in what a gymnast can and cannot do, thus giving the younger opponent an unfair advantage.

Obviously, if these gymnast are all truly of 16 years of age or older, their body types still give them an advantage over other athletes, but being in the same age category would not be giving them an unfair advantage, as they are of appropriate age. There is nothing that can be done about weight classes, unless they begin to treat this like boxing, but considering the innate differences between a 16 year old and a 14 year old, those rules should be followed quite extensively.

[Curtis E. Bear]

Let's just let me take a guess and say that you have absolute no ****ing clue what performance means in the sport that they were starting in.

2 years do make a difference. Weight and Height make a HUGE different. The age between 14 and 16 IS making a difference, it's when kids and especially female bodies are (in most cases anyway) changing massvily. (<-Oh god.)

Did you read my other post? About 3 posts down from that one? if not, I suggest you read it then get back to me, dip****.

[BloodyTalon]

if they are under 16, then there MUST be WMDs (still) in iraq .
Do you have trouble reading or was your account hijacked by a PRC drone? Again, the investigation IS NOT just because they look young; its because THE GOVERNMENT'S OWN RECORDS SHOW THAT TWO OF THE COMPETITING GYMNASTS WERE UNDERAGE.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/olympics/article4578241.ece

[nullterm]

link please.

See the original article. Once the got caught with their hand in the cookie jar, they smashed the jar. The site info is now gone.

[Macs.]

Did you read my other post? About 3 posts down from that one? if not, I suggest you read it then get back to me, dip****.

I am back at you to tell you, that I read that post and you still don't get it.

This has nothing to do with talent, as the Height and Weight difference brings a HUGE advantage in this sport, and the age between 14 and 16 happens to be a time where especially Female bodies can change alot. Maybe you get it. Maybe.

When you say that you wouldn't care if a 14 year old would have "shown that kind of talent" is simply a ignorant statement without any thought.

[digrar]

Male field hockey should be outlawed too, or give them longer sticks at least. It's a chick sport unless you're wearing skates and know who Bobby Orr was.


Piss off, we medal in that sport, also some of the blokeiest blokes I know have played it.

[Calanen]

If this is the case...why did the Olympic org. allow them to compete?

Because they were able to present current birth certificates and passports provided gratis from the Chinese government saying they were the correct age. No one thought to go back a few years and see how they had suddenly aged some.

When you present documentation, legal documentation, the governing bodies dont go..but hey this must be forged, 3 years ago there was a local chinese paper that said you were 11! So you must be 14!
They take the documents at face value, they are real. But then hax0rs found all the local online records saying they had competed and won local tournements, and then magically aged a few years just before the Olympics started. Then the Chinese govt did a slash and burn on the internet and removed as many of those links as it could, but the hax0rs already had them. Thats the reason for the problem.

ITS NOT BECAUSE A PERSON IN THE AUDIENCE SAID "HEY SHE LOOKS YOUNG! HOW ABOUT AN INVESTIGATION!'

But the Chinese government falsifying records is no big deal - saving face and winning medals is far more important.

Our own governments do it for their purposes. When you control the manufacture of ID, real ID, you can be whatever the state says you are.

[chino65]

Off-topic...

I'm from SE Asia where it is rare to find someone over the height of 1.8m.

Therefore, slam dunks in basketball matches are nearly unheard of as no one is that tall.

In a game where gravity plays a big part besides skill, the coutries that don't produce tall players don't stand a chance in Olympic competitions. There should be a rule where if the average height of one team far exceeds that of the opposing team, the taller team should suffer some penalty points.

[Macs.]

In a game where gravity plays a big part besides skill, the coutries that don't produce tall players don't stand a chance in Olympic competitions. There should be a rule where if the average height of one team far exceeds that of the opposing team, the taller team should suffer some penalty points.

I hope you are drunk, this is the stupidest idea I have heared so far. :cantbeli:

So do Blacks also get penality in running competitions ?

[Kaapeli]

Off-topic...

I'm from SE Asia where it is rare to find someone over the height of 1.8m.

Therefore, slam dunks in basketball matches are nearly unheard of as no one is that tall.

In a game where gravity plays a big part besides skill, the coutries that don't produce tall players don't stand a chance in Olympic competitions. There should be a rule where if the average height of one team far exceeds that of the opposing team, the taller team should suffer some penalty points.

South-East Asia has roughly half a billion people as a region combined.
You can find millions of 2 meter tall people a group that large even if they make up only 1% of the population.

The Chinese aren't known for their great height either but still they Olympic basketball team was one of the tallest. Big country means plenty of different body types from all extremes no matter what their average is.

[chino65]

South-East Asia has roughly half a billion people as a region combined.
You can find millions of 2 meter tall people a group that large even if they make up only 1% of the population.



SE Asia has millions of people over 2m tall? Are we talking about the same SE Asia where I grew up? :roll:

[chino65]

Macs>

Do you know what a golf handicap is?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golf_handicap)

Besides skill, height is crucial to basketball. Would you not say that when your whole team is shorter than the opposing team, that's a real handicap?

Height is to basketball what mass is to boxing.

If you make a 150-lb man fight a 250-lb man in the ring the results are predictable.

Same as if you put a basketball team averaging 1.8m against a team averaging 2.2m, the result is similarly predictable.

Unlike boxing, no weight or height calssification exists in basketball. As a result only teams with really tall players qualify/win in Olympics.

When the teams are evenly matched in height, then it is a true test of skills. When one team is taller than the other, it is not.


(I think your comment about being black and running is quite lame.)

[Bia]

I think given their appearance and some apparent discrepancies in earlier reports regarding age,an investigation is warranted.
If they're really 16, then they've got nothing to worry about.
Why not let the investigation take its course?Wouldnt it be safe to assume... if some mystery person in China can fake their ID's and records.....then cant another somewhere else fake an opposing view?

They were allowed to participate.... waiting until they start winning to start additional investigations shows poor sportsmanship.... much like challenging a Refs call afer the play...

my personal opinion..... once the game has started.... that's that. Should have done your homework beforehand.

[Kaapeli]

SE Asia has millions of people over 2m tall? Are we talking about the same SE Asia where I grew up? :roll:

Even if you take one or two zeros out there's still plenty of tall people to fill all the pro-basketball teams in the world.

[SBL]

Wouldnt it be safe to assume... if some mystery person in China can fake their ID's and records.....then cant another somewhere else fake an opposing view?

They were allowed to participate.... waiting until they start winning to start additional investigations shows poor sportsmanship.... much like challenging a Refs call afer the play...

my personal opinion..... once the game has started.... that's that. Should have done your homework beforehand.

Well that's the kinda the point of having an investigation, isn't it?

Again, if I were an athlete, I would at least want the option of investigation, considering it would be I who invested my precious time into training and competing.

[Bia]

Well that's the kinda the point of having an investigation, isn't it?

Not really. Official paperwork can be produced by almost anyone.
Both sides could easily produce documents to bolster their argument.

Like I said... too late... shows poor sportsmanship.

Of course it's not fair to those not involved yet participated in competition.
Food for thought.

[California Joe]

Piss off, we medal in that sport, also some of the blokeiest blokes I know have played it.

So that's where BiZ got those short shorts. :)

[SBL]

Not really. Official paperwork can be produced by almost anyone.
Both sides could easily produce documents to bolster their argument.

Like I said... too late... shows poor sportsmanship.

Of course it's not fair to those not involved yet participated in competition.
Food for thought.

Pardon me, Mr. Partner, but the idea behind an investigation is to investigate.
A claim was filed, as per the proper channels, and it is the duty of the investigating body to examine the veracity of those claims for fairness' sake.

Just because both sides could produce fake documents does not mean that will be the case, but again for the sake of fairness and in order to preserve the legitimacy of the games themselves, a proper and fair investigation must be carried out.

As for poor sportsmanship, I have a bone to pick with that as well. I haven't been following this case all that closely, but to my knowledge there hasn't been any excessive whining on the US Gymnastic team's part (i.e. from the people that matter) some disapproval was voiced via the proper channels, but to my knowledge there has been no outrageously poor behavior, such as silver medals being tossed aside at the pedestal, nor and judo-kicking of officials.
I think considering the circumstances, the plaintiffs have acquitted themselves maturely enough, and that they have a right and privilege to challenge any suspected cases of deliberate cheating.

[BloodyTalon]

Not really. Official paperwork can be produced by almost anyone.
Both sides could easily produce documents to bolster their argument.

Like I said... too late... shows poor sportsmanship.

Of course it's not fair to those not involved yet participated in competition.
Food for thought.
Do you even know how they got the documents? Read the articles again; they didn't just pull a bunch of papers out of their arse and said "Look! This is proof that the Chinese are cheating!" A hacker found a cache of the original documents from the General Administration of Sports of China that showed that two of the gymnasts are under aged. Basically, he found an old, unedited copy of the website that is often used by the new one to gather data that wasn't edited in the wake of the Olympics.

This is the website of the man who found the original documents and i strongly urge anyone who thinks this is all about how the athletes look.
http://strydehax.blogspot.com/2008/08/hack-olympics.html

[Bia]

Do you even know how they got the documents? Read the articles again; they didn't just pull a bunch of papers out of their arse and said "Look! This is proof that the Chinese are cheating!" A hacker found a cache of the original documents from the General Administration of Sports of China that showed that two of the gymnasts are under aged. Basically, he found an old, unedited copy of the website that is often used by the new one to gather data that wasn't edited in the wake of the Olympics.

This is the website of the man who found the original documents and i strongly urge anyone who thinks this is all about how the athletes look.
http://strydehax.blogspot.com/2008/08/hack-olympics.html

I never said anyone pulled papers outta an arse.
I suggested anyone with skills can manipulate pretty much any electronic media they wish.
A hacker found it? ROFL... a hacker could have made it.

Cry and whine before the competition....but when you lose.... to start crying then is poor sportsmanship.

We know bad calls are made... part of sports is dealing with it. Dealing with a competitions outcome builds the character....not the color of the prize.

[SBL]

I never said anyone pulled papers outta an arse.
I suggested anyone with skills can manipulate pretty much any electronic media they wish.
A hacker found it? ROFL... a hacker could have made it.

Cry and whine before the competition....but when you lose.... to start crying then is poor sportsmanship.

We know bad calls are made... part of sports is dealing with it. Dealing with a competitions outcome builds the character....not the color of the prize.

Like I said, they've acquitted themselves pretty professionally. Little-to-no crying/whining that I'm aware of. The channels are there, and they were used.
I don't see any reason why they, or anyone else should be begrudged the right to raise a legitimate complaint considering how much work and effort it takes to be an Olympic contender. Unless of course you're more preoccupied with perception than with what's fair.

[Bia]

I don't see any reason why they, or anyone else should be begrudged the right to raise a legitimate complaint considering how much work and effort it takes to be an Olympic contender. Unless of course you're more preoccupied with perception than with what's fair.And again you're absolutely correct I agree. Just suggesting some "web site info" is hardly proof of reality.



LOL @ perception VS fair.
My perception is these games are a massive waste of human energy and time.
"oh looky my side has more gold than your side....we're better than you"

Wake up everyday and go to work and be a productive member of society and serve your nation and community... that... is impressive and fair to mankind.

;)

[Kaapeli]

Wake up everyday and go to work and be a productive member of society and serve your nation and community... that... is impressive and fair to mankind.

;)

And don't be a party pooper.
Of course we should enjoy and be motivated by the rare glamour and show of dedication these national showdowns offer us. Great and inspiring fun.

[KoTeMoRe]

That's the operative phrase. It's about whats fair for the competitors, not what Curtis E. Bear thinks.

Wait wut? Fairness? OMG SBL when you think how unfair the preparations for these games are...you'd be speechless.

[deagle]

Do you have trouble reading or was your account hijacked by a PRC drone? Again, the investigation IS NOT just because they look young; its because THE GOVERNMENT'S OWN RECORDS SHOW THAT TWO OF THE COMPETITING GYMNASTS WERE UNDERAGE.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/olympics/article4578241.ece


do you believe in what the govt says or states ? they flip-flopped over 15 or 16, like we flip-flopped over WMDs in or not.

[BloodyTalon]

do you believe in what the govt says or states ? they flip-flopped over 15 or 16, like we flip-flopped over WMDs in or not.
For someone who's telling me not to believe in what any government says, you sure like to blindly follow China's official statement on the age of the girls, even when there is evidence that says other wise.

Again, see the links I posted (same for you, Bia). There is some concrete evidence that shows China has been messing with the ages of the girls for the sake of getting a gold medal.

[Calanen]

Wouldnt it be safe to assume... if some mystery person in China can fake their ID's and records.....then cant another somewhere else fake an opposing view?

They were allowed to participate.... waiting until they start winning to start additional investigations shows poor sportsmanship.... much like challenging a Refs call afer the play...

my personal opinion..... once the game has started.... that's that. Should have done your homework beforehand.

Bia - you arent reading my posts. Its the GOVERNMENT who is faking the records, not some mystery person.

[SBL]

do you believe in what the govt says or states ? they flip-flopped over 15 or 16, like we flip-flopped over WMDs in or not.
Dingle, you are a certifiable moron.

[SBL]

-edit-

1234567890

[digrar]

Macs>

Do you know what a golf handicap is?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golf_handicap)

There is no handicap system in pro golf.



Unlike boxing, no weight or height calssification exists in basketball. As a result only teams with really tall players qualify/win in Olympics.

When the teams are evenly matched in height, then it is a true test of skills. When one team is taller than the other, it is not.

No one cares about the featherweight class, it's the heavy weights, the open class that matters.
Name another team sport that operates a handicap system. I'll give you one, Polo, a sport played by rich blokes and a game that has almost no mainstream following and that has been dropped from the Olympic program for 70 years.




(I think your comment about being black and running is quite lame.)


It's a valid point. Africans/people of African decent own the track races, surly to make it fair they should have to carry a watermellon/ have 2 toes from each foot amputated/ have to run an extra 100m or something as a handicap. Yeah, it's ridiculous, but so is having handicapping in team sports.

[Pommelhorse]

They were allowed to participate.... waiting until they start winning to start additional investigations shows poor sportsmanship.... much like challenging a Refs call afer the play...

my personal opinion..... once the game has started.... that's that. Should have done your homework beforehand.


Wait, let me get this right. They should do a thorough background check and family history on every single contestant at the olympics before the events start? (A quick google check says 11556 athletes). Why not just wait until you've narrowed down the field to the select few whom it will affect?

As for the part in bold, say it was the 100m sprints and an athlete was using banned steroids to get an unfair advantage. He wins the race, they find out he used illegal substances, but oh no, we didn't check before the race. Guess we're going to have to let him keep his gold medal?

You'll probably say steroids are different to age differences. Maybe, but they're both in the rule books, no?

[deagle]

For someone who's telling me not to believe in what any government says, you sure like to blindly follow China's official statement on the age of the girls, even when there is evidence that says other wise.

Again, see the links I posted (same for you, Bia). There is some concrete evidence that shows China has been messing with the ages of the girls for the sake of getting a gold medal.


listen clearly.... the worlds not fair sometimes. i care more about the missteps along with the positives of my country. if i can live with the "official" statements of the USA, i can live with the "official" sayings of them (to a certain degree). we have more pressing matters to cry foul over (energy crisis, housing crisis, economy crisis, military/veteran's affairs, etc...). let them take their medals with an asterik, like why we went to iraq.

I don't trust China's media....some say they're 16 with evidence, others say they're not with evidence. who is fake / who is legit ? basically, i'm naiive enough to go by my country's wording, and thats good enough for me. same with them (again, to a certain extent, and as long as their interests don't conflict with our country's). at first glance, its a judgement call, but the IOC should've definitely been on top of things..are they perfect -no (there's already been a doping case). we should just let them do their investigation.

[vinny_121_ND]

if i can live with the "official" statements of the USA, i can live with the "official" sayings of them (to a certain degree). we have more pressing matters to cry foul over (energy crisis, housing crisis, economy crisis, military/veteran's affairs, etc...). let them take their medals with an asterik, like why we went to iraq.

I don't trust China's media....some say they're 16 with evidence, others say they're not with evidence. who is fake / who is legit ? basically, i'm naiive enough to go by my country's wording, and thats good enough for me. same with them (again, to a certain extent, and as long as their interests don't conflict with our country's). at first glance, its a judgement call, but the IOC should've definitely been on top of things..are they perfect -no (there's already been a doping case). we should just let them do their investigation.

x2. There's more important matters at hand than the olympics. I really enjoyed watching these games and this drama part didn't affect it one bit.