Moore Dares to Ask: What's So Heroic About Being Shot Down While Bombing Civilians?

[LongShot]

Michael Moore Dares to Ask: What's So Heroic About Being Shot Down While Bombing Innocent Civilians?
By Liliana Segura, AlterNet
Posted on August 21, 2008, Printed on August 25, 2008 (source) (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/Michael Moore Dares to Ask: What's So Heroic About Being Shot Down While Bombing Innocent Civilians?)

Confession: I have not yet read all six (short, illustrated, large type) chapters of Mike's Election Guide 2008, Michael Moore's, latest work of jaunty political opinion. Am I supposed to discuss it with him on "Meet the Bloggers" tomorrow? Yes. But I'm not worried. It's a breezy read, has already made me laugh out loud, and besides, I may have already found the best part in Chapter One.

The title is "Ask Mike!" and, in it, ordinary voters, old and young, pose questions about politics and current events. Some are more serious than others ("If Iran has weapons of mass destruction, we should invade, right?"), which does not make Moore's answers any more subtle. ("Excuuuuuse me? Did you say the words, 'weapons of mass destruction?' Take it back. I SAID TAKE IT BACK!") Of course, the "questions" are really satirical jabs at the media -- "When a Republican wears a little American flag lapel pin, what is he trying to say?" "If Obama can't bowl, can he govern?" -- but there's one in particular that is worth paying attention to -- especially if you happen to be a member of the press and have been utterly unwilling to take McCain's supporters and opponents alike to task for perpetuating a narrative that would be central to a McCain victory, and which has already become a dominant theme in this election: The McCain as War Hero canard.

The "question" is posted thusly:

"Why did the Vietnamese shoot down John McCain and put him in prison for five years? He seems like such a nice guy."


ANSWER: I'm guessing, in spite of his anger management issues, he is a nice guy. He has devoted his life to this country. He was willing to make the ultimate sacrifice in the defense of our nation. And for that, he was tortured and then imprisoned in a North Vietnamese POW camp for nearly five-and-a-half years.

That's the set-up. It gets better. Moore proceeds, not to question, as Wesley Clark recently did to so many shrieks of criticism, whether McCain's capture really makes him qualified to be president of the United States -- the answer, any thinking person realizes, is "no" -- but whether the Vietnam war was a conflict that can really be said to have produced the breed of "American hero" McCain is so often celebrated as.

"Sadly," he writes, "McCain's sacrifice had nothing to do with protecting the United States. He was sent to Vietnam along with hundreds of thousands of others in an attempt to prop up what was essentially an American colony, South Vietnam, which was being run by a dictator whom we installed."


Lest we forget, the Vietnam War represented a mass slaughter by the United States government on a scale that sought to rival our genocide of the Native Americans. The U.S. Armed Forces killed more than two million civilians in Vietnam (and perhaps another million in Laos and Cambodia). The Vietnamese had done nothing to us. They had not bombed or invaded or even sought to murder a single American. President Johnson and the Pentagon lied to Congress in order to get a vote passed to put the war in full gear. Only two senators had the guts to vote "no."

But the parallel between Iraq and Vietnam is not the only point Moore is making. He makes it personal.

John McCain flew 23 bombing missions over North Vietnam in a campaign called Operation Rolling Thunder. During this bombing campaign, which lasted for almost 44 months, U.S. forces flew 307,000 attack sorties, dropping 643,000 tons of bombs on North Vietnam (roughly the same tonnage dropped in the Pacific during all of World War II). Though the stated targets were factories, bridges, and power plants, thousands of bombs also fell on homes, schools, and hospitals. In the midst of the campaign, Defense Secretary Robert McNamara estimated that we were killing 1,000 civilians a week. That's more than one 9/11 every single month -- for 44 months.

What's not heroic about that? Is it any wonder all politicians speaking in public about John McCain are required to preface their remarks with a fawning admiration for his war service?

Alas, McCain does have some regrets about Vietnam. As Moore points out, in his memoir Faith of Our Fathers, McCain called it "illogical" and "senseless" that he was limited to bombing only military targets.


"I do believe," McCain wrote, "that had we taken the war to the North and made full, consistent use of air power in the North, we ultimately would have prevailed."


In other words, McCain believes we could have won the Vietnam War had he been able to drop even more bombs.

When McCain was shot down, on October 26, 1967, he was busy bombing what he would describe as a "heavily populated part of Hanoi."

What follows is a a rather entertaining passage in which Moore then asks what you would do to a man who "fell out of the sky" after dropping bombs on you or your children. But the most important question comes at the end:


John McCain is already using the Vietnam War in his political ads. In doing so, it makes not just what happened to him in Vietnam fair game for discussion, but also what he did to the Vietnamese … I would like to see one brave reporter during the election season ask this simple question of John McCain: "Is it morally right to drop bombs and missiles in a 'heavily populated' area where hundreds, if not thousands, of civilians will perish?"

Of course, no member of the "mainstream" media is going to ask John McCain that question. (And given his famous quips on "Bomb-bomb-bomb-ing Iran" or, when asked to comment on the U.S. exporting cigarettes to the country, on the speculation that "Maybe that's a way of killing them,", the answer may be too disturbing to bear.) Regardless, this is the same press that obligingly calls McCain a "maverick" and McCain's campaign bus the "Straight-talk Express." Going after his war hero credentials? Why, that would be ... un-American.

Luckily, in the absence of an effective media -- or one that takes its cues from Michael Moore -- there are some people who are uniquely qualified to ask tough questions about the war hero John McCain, and they can't all be considered "surrogates" for Barack Obama. One of them is a man named Phillip Butler, who, on AlterNet today, has an article whose point, really, is laid out in the title:


I Spent Years as a POW with John McCain, and His Finger Should Not Be Near the Red Button

Originally published on Military.com, it's a scathing, point-by-point indictment of McCain that punctures the war hero mythology he has so successfully insulated himself in.

It is part fact-check ("Was he tortured for 5 years? No. He was subjected to torture and maltreatment during his first 2 years, from September of 1967 to September of 1969"), part much-needed perspective ("Because John's father was the Naval Commander in the Pacific theater, he was exploited with TV interviews while wounded. These film clips have now been widely seen. But it must be known that many POW's suffered similarly, not just John. And many were similarly exploited for political propaganda"). But perhaps its most compelling characteristic is that it is written by a former POW of a misbegotten war, who has seen the death and destruction firsthand, and who is fearful of what McCain would do as commander in chief. "I can verify that John has an infamous reputation for being a hot head. He has a quick and explosive temper that many have experienced first hand. Folks, quite honestly that is not the finger I want next to that red button."

Now that's a quote. Maybe it's time for a new 3 AM ad.

Liliana Segura is a staff writer and editor of AlterNet's Rights and Liberties and War on Iraq Special Coverage.




Swift Boaters anyone?

[Junkelf]

Swift Boaters anyone?

Michael Moore tells only half the truth:roll:

[Calanen]

Moore you big fat bag o sh_t, you'd crap your pants and cry for your mommy in the first 5 nanoseconds of being in enemy captivity, and sell your country out for a Twinkie.

Scratch that, you'd actually do it for free.

[Polygon]

Moore you big fat bag o sh_t, you'd crap your pants and cry for your mommy in the first 5 nanoseconds of being in enemy captivity, and sell your country out for a Twinkie.

Scratch that, you'd actually do it for free.

x2

Couldn't have said it better.

[KoTeMoRe]

Wait a moment...what was Rolling Thunder about Calanen?

[Doublethinker]

Has McCain ever seen death not from the skies above?

[Macs.]

If McCain is using the Vietnam War for his political gains, I don't see whats so shocking about asking such a question...

[LineDoggie]

Has McCain ever seen death not from the skies above?
5 years in North Vietnamese Prison, USS Forrestal fire, you tell me?

[seraosha]

"For his actions as a POW, McCain was awarded the Silver Star (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Star), the Legion of Merit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legion_of_Merit), three more instances of the Bronze Star (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Star_Medal), another instance of the Navy Commendation Medal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navy_Commendation_Medal), and the Purple Heart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Heart)."

Being shot down didn't make him a hero.
Surviving being a POW, leading the camp resistance, and living to tell the tale, with his fellow prisoners is what got him recognized as a hero.

Moore should choke on a twinkie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_military_career_of_John_McCain#Prisoner_of_war

[Polygon]

If McCain is using the Vietnam War for his political gains, I don't see whats so shocking about asking such a question...

Well, I think if you're running for President of the United States, using your service record towards political gain would probably be mandatory. Especially to appeal to the side of patriotism.

[Doublethinker]

5 years in North Vietnamese Prison, USS Forrestal fire, you tell me?

Donno.

What were the conditions of his prison?

To my knowledge, Vietnamese treated OK those who were coerced into cooperation.

[SBL]

Donno.

What were the conditions of his prison?

To my knowledge, Vietnamese treated OK those who were coerced into cooperation.


lol .

[LongShot]

Donno.

What were the conditions of his prison?

To my knowledge, Vietnamese treated OK those who were coerced into cooperation.


Suuuurrrreeee...................:|

[Doublethinker]

I mean, from what I gather, McCain was a valuable asset for the Vietnamese - he wasn't just a regular soldier after all.

[SBL]

I mean, from what I gather, McCain was a valuable asset for the Vietnamese - he wasn't just a regular soldier after all.

lol lol .

[Doublethinker]

Suuuurrrreeee...................:|

Anyone cares to extrapolate a bit more than adding a zillion of dots??

[SBL]

Anyone cares to extrapolate a bit more than adding a zillion of dots??
Why don't you do a little research? The information is widely available.

Just google 'Hanoi Hilton'.

[LongShot]

I mean, from what I gather, McCain was a valuable asset for the Vietnamese - he wasn't just a regular soldier after all.


He also was not very cooprative....

[Polygon]

I definitely wouldn't call pulling fingernails and various forms of mental and physical torture "OK" treatment.

[Laconian]

Donno.

What were the conditions of his prison?

To my knowledge, Vietnamese treated OK those who were coerced into cooperation.

And how do you think they were coerced? They withheld TV and mail priveleges?

What an idiotic statement.

[Hollis]

Donno.

What were the conditions of his prison?

To my knowledge, Vietnamese treated OK those who were coerced into cooperation.


Try to do some research on this issue. In my neck of the woods the North Viet-Namese did not take enlisted men as prisoners, they where tortured, then murdered.


Also there is Soviet soldier re-union of Soviets who where in the North and aided the North Viet-Namese in their treatment of POWs.

[Hollis]

It just needs to be said those who are making his War experience into a issue are the Anti-McCain people. Just as they are also making this campaign into a race issue.

[Shadowstorm]

I can't stand that fat piece of s**t.

[Laconian]

It just needs to be said those who are making his War experience into a issue are the Anti-McCain people. Just as they are also making this campaign into a race issue.

x2. I don't know of McCain touting his POW experience as a credential/qualification to be CinC. He has said as a person with military experience in various command assignments while a naval officer and his experience as a Senator dealing with armed services and foreign policy does qualify him.

[Hollis]

http://www.25thaviation.org/johnkerry/id27.htm

This is a good read, it could be posted on "why words matter" thread. It is about shaping how people view the world and issues so that they will do what one wants them to do.

It deals with the Viet-Nam war, but is applicable to day in the war of words.

[California Joe]

I keep asking hood for that "ignorant f*cktard" infraction for people like Doublethinker.

[seraosha]

I mean, from what I gather, McCain was a valuable asset for the Vietnamese - he wasn't just a regular soldier after all.


Doublethinker is apparently in the running for his Third term.

[JKD]

I'm not defending Moore's comments here, McCain's rightfully proud of his service, but his campaign's been tossing it around a little liberally lately.


Too Much of a Bad Thing

By MAUREEN DOWD
Published: August 24, 2008

My mom did not approve of men who cheated on their wives. She called them “long-tailed rats.”

During the 2000 race, she listened to news reports about John McCain confessing to dalliances that caused his first marriage to fall apart after he came back from his stint as a P.O.W. in Vietnam.

I figured, given her stringent moral standards, that her great affection for McCain would be dimmed.

“So,” I asked her, “what do you think of that?”

“A man who lives in a box for five years can do whatever he wants,” she replied matter-of-factly.

I was startled, but it brought home to me what a powerful get-out-of-jail-free card McCain had earned by not getting out of jail free.

His brutal hiatus in the Hanoi Hilton is one of the most stirring narratives ever told on the presidential trail — a trail full of heroic war stories. It created an enormous credit line of good will with the American people. It also allowed McCain, the errant son of the admiral who was the commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific during Vietnam — his jailers dubbed McCain the “Crown Prince” — to give himself some credit.

“He has been preoccupied with escaping the shadow of his father and establishing his own image and identity in the eyes of others,” read a psychiatric evaluation in his medical files. “He feels his experiences and performance as a P.O.W. have finally permitted this to happen.”

The ordeal also gave a more sympathetic cast to his carousing. As Robert Timberg wrote in “John McCain: An American Odyssey,” “What is true is that a number of P.O.W.’s, in those first few years after their release, often acted erratically, their lives pockmarked by drastic mood swings and uncharacteristic behavior before achieving a more mellow equilibrium.” Timberg said Hemingway’s line that people were stronger in the broken places was not always right.

So it’s hard to believe that John McCain is now in danger of exceeding his credit limit on the equivalent of an American Express black card. His campaign is cheapening his greatest strength — and making a mockery of his already dubious claim that he’s reticent to talk about his P.O.W. experience — by flashing the P.O.W. card to rebut any criticism, no matter how unrelated. The captivity is already amply displayed in posters and TV advertisements.

The Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell, the pastor who married Jenna Bush and who is part of a new Christian-based political action committee supporting Obama, recently criticized the joke McCain made at the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally encouraging Cindy to enter the topless Miss Buffalo Chip contest. The McCain spokesman Brian Rogers brought out the bottomless excuse, responding with asperity that McCain’s character had been “tested and forged in ways few can fathom.”

When the Obama crowd was miffed to learn that McCain was in a motorcade rather than in a “cone of silence” while Obama was being questioned by Rick Warren, Nicolle Wallace of the McCain camp retorted, “The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous.”

When Obama chaffed McCain for forgetting how many houses he owns, Rogers huffed, “This is a guy who lived in one house for five and a half years — in prison.”

As Sam Stein notes in The Huffington Post: “The senator has even brought his military record into discussion of his music tastes. Explaining that his favorite song was ‘Dancing Queen’ by Abba, he offered that his knowledge of music ‘stopped evolving when his plane intercepted a surface-to-air missile.’ ‘Dancing Queen,’ however, was produced in 1975, eight years after McCain’s plane was shot down.”

The Kerry Swift-boat attacks in 2004 struck down the off-limits signs that were traditionally on a candidate’s military service. Many Democrats are willing to repay the favor, and Republicans clearly no longer see war medals as sacrosanct.

In a radio interview last week, Representative Terry Everett, an Alabama Republican, let loose with a barrage at the Democrat John Murtha, a decorated Vietnam War veteran who is the head of the House defense appropriations subcommittee, calling him “cut-and-run John Murtha” and an “idiot.”

“And don’t talk to me about him being an ex-marine,” Everett said. “Lord, that was 40 years ago. A lot of stuff can happen in 40 years.”

The real danger to the McCain crew in overusing the P.O.W. line so much that it’s a punch line is that it will give Obama an opening for critical questions:

While McCain’s experience was heroic, did it create a worldview incapable of anticipating the limits to U.S. military power in Iraq? Did he fail to absorb the lessons of Vietnam, so that he is doomed to always want to refight it? Did his captivity inform a search-and-destroy, shoot-first-ask-questions-later, “We are all Georgians,” mentality?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/24/opinion/24dowd.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

[helomech]

Donno.

What were the conditions of his prison?

To my knowledge, Vietnamese treated OK those who were coerced into cooperation.

WTF???????What an idiotic statement,are you running for office as well?You've never read about the horiffic conditions those men went through,because if you had,you wouldn't be making yourself out to be an a_ssclown as you are now;


McCains War record is being brought up by the Dem supporters,not McCain supporters probably because,they have not sacrificed anything of themselves for their country and way of life like McCain and thousands of others have

Doublethinker-go choke yourself
:bash:

[domokun]

My 2 cents (€)...

No no one in 'Nam did treat POWs in very humane fashion. My karate senseis back is good example of North Vietnams hospitality, there is more than few scars from some whipping. Americans, South and North all used more or less harsh methods on interrogation.

As POW who didn't cooperate McCain has earned some respect. Over morality of Rolling Thunder and other operations of war. War is human thing yet humane acts were limited by intelligence, technology and ideology. Yeah, if there were similar operations today, there would be less casualties. But not for very moral reasons, image management (political fallout of mess) and effiency of modern "smart" weapons is better than armament of Vietnam era.

Mr. Michael "2 many cheezeburgerz" Moore is one of most influential documentarist of our time. He has his own agenda. But I see him as good maker of entertainment, that deals with real issues. His books and movies are good political satire that serve for his agendas.

[wildcat]

Donno.

What were the conditions of his prison?

To my knowledge, Vietnamese treated OK those who were coerced into cooperation.
Did you fall out of the smart tree hitting every branch on the way down?

[wildcat]

Moore you fat sh1t, Off course McCain is a Hero, he risked life and served in the Military for his nation, more than your fat lazy ass has done for the US. Why don't you make a film about how you such a fat lazy fvck. Cvnt!

[Hollis]

I'm not defending Moore's comments here, McCain's rightfully proud of his service, but his campaign's been tossing it around a little liberally lately.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/24/opinion/24dowd.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin


LOL, BS NY Times. I have been following McCain since 2000 campaign. I gather if the NY Time wrote a Op Ed on that there was no ice in Arctic you would believe it. The only presidential candidate the promoted his Viet-Nam war record recently was Kerry. Maybe try to see what the actual campaigns are doing, not what they are saying about the other one.


NY Times is supporting Obama.


According to the NY Times Senator Obama is the messiah and Senator McCain is the anti-Christ.

[Shadowstorm]

Also don't forget NY Times also ran that false report about John McCain which claimed he had and affair with another woman which turned out to be untrue.

[Cornerstone]

people people mccain is a war hero for all the above said reasons, however he wont win because hes an economic idiot in a time where the economy is bad, getting worse.

[Hollis]

people people mccain is a war hero for all the above said reasons, however he wont win because hes an economic idiot in a time where the economy is bad, getting worse.


We do have a McCain rant thread, do your ranting over there.

[Snoshi]

people people mccain is a war hero for all the above said reasons, however he wont win because hes an economic idiot in a time where the economy is bad, getting worse.

Since when is presidents supposed to think and know everything themselves.. They got a alot of specialists to do it for them.

[JKD]

LOL, BS NY Times. I have been following McCain since 2000 campaign. I gather if the NY Time wrote a Op Ed on that there was no ice in Arctic you would believe it. The only presidential candidate the promoted his Viet-Nam war record recently was Kerry. Maybe try to see what the actual campaigns are doing, not what they are saying about the other one.
His campaign has made those statements. Pretty widely reported.


NY Times is supporting Obama.


According to the NY Times Senator Obama is the messiah and Senator McCain is the anti-Christ.
I must have missed that article.

It's an op-ed, it's by definition opinionated, but it's also written my the same woman who gave us the mental image of a lactating Al Gore in 2000.

[Cornerstone]

Since when is presidents supposed to think and know everything themselves.. They got a alot of specialists to do it for them.
it dosent help when you tell everyone how little you know about the economy... plus the economy is a "huge" issue, if he needs people to tell him the basics then maybe those people should run

[Merfeller]

people people mccain is a war hero for all the above said reasons, however he wont win because hes an economic idiot in a time where the economy is bad, getting worse.

Oh yeah, Obama is an economic genius. Now let's get back on topic, shall we?

[Shadowstorm]

LOL, BS NY Times. I have been following McCain since 2000 campaign. I gather if the NY Time wrote a Op Ed on that there was no ice in Arctic you would believe it. The only presidential candidate the promoted his Viet-Nam war record recently was Kerry. Maybe try to see what the actual campaigns are doing, not what they are saying about the other one.


NY Times is supporting Obama.


According to the NY Times Senator Obama is the messiah and Senator McCain is the anti-Christ.
Hollis, you should of seen Madonna stage picture which she compared McCain to Adolf Hitler and Robert Mugabe.

[BloodyTalon]

Also don't forget NY Times also ran that false report about John McCain which claimed he had and affair with another woman which turned out to be untrue.
And ran the report implying that McCain wasn't eligible for the presidency because he was born in Panama. It's fairly obvious that the NY Times wants Obama to win.

[Cornerstone]

And ran the report implying that McCain wasn't eligible for the presidency because he was born in Panama. It's fairly obvious that the NY Times wants Obama to win.
have you checked the wall street journal its the same except the other way around

[Hollis]

His campaign has made those statements. Pretty widely reported.


I must have missed that article.

It's an op-ed, it's by definition opinionated, but it's also written my the same woman who gave us the mental image of a lactating Al Gore in 2000.


Oh BTW, I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I need to sale in a hurry, I can make you a really great deal on it. :roll:

Again the group that is constantly on this, playing it, is not the McCain people. It seems the Anti-McCain people want to get even for the "Swift Boat" people sinking Kerry's campaign.

Obama is making the same mistakes as Kerry, Kerry could have maintain his Anti-Viet-Nam war stance, work it to his advantage along without getting sunk by the "swift boat" people.

Just as I think this OP-ED will probably back fire more on Obama. One of the Issue the Obama people are pointing out, is that Obama is more friendlier to the Vet than McCain (see DVA ratings of candidates). I hope you can see the logic there. If it is a tight election a few percentage points either way could mean victory or defeat.

[Hollis]

have you checked the wall street journal its the same except the other way around


It was question in 2000 and earlier this year. Also Obama's is being check into. There is at least one law suit (I believe) on Obama's birth certificate.


But that is another topic, maybe for the tin foil hats or maybe not section.

[JKD]

Oh BTW, I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I need to sale in a hurry, I can make you a really great deal on it. :roll:

Again the group that is constantly on this, playing it, is not the McCain people. It seems the Anti-McCain people want to get even for the "Swift Boat" people sinking Kerry's campaign.
Are you saying that the McCain campaign never made the statements attributed to it in that op-ed?

[Shadowstorm]

And ran the report implying that McCain wasn't eligible for the presidency because he was born in Panama. It's fairly obvious that the NY Times wants Obama to win.
X2, and the same with CNN and MSNBC who's in the tank with Obama.

[Hollis]

Are you saying that the McCain campaign never made the statements attributed to it in that op-ed?


I said McCain campaign is not the ONES MAKING THE BIG TO-DO over it.


I have not seen anything from the McCain people playing his "War" experience against Obama's lack of "war" experience. It has been, as far as I HAVE seen, just a part of his biography. Why not? Murtha uses the fact he was a Marine, even more so.

[Cornerstone]

X2, and the same with CNN and MSNBC who's in the tank with Obama.
cnn tries to hide it at least... cant say it works

[LineDoggie]

Donno.

What were the conditions of his prison?

To my knowledge, Vietnamese treated OK those who were coerced into cooperation.

Whoa.... I dont even know where to begin on your statement, it just defies all known logic.

Here, do some research:

http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/1989/February%201989/0289valor.aspx

[JKD]

I said McCain campaign is not the ONES MAKING THE BIG TO-DO over it.

You don't think them falling back on his being a POW to explain everything from his not knowing how many houses he owns to why he likes Dancing Queen is making a "to-do"?

[Gulag]

Good question, I like Moore a bit...maybe a bit more...whatever, he is still not a saint himself

[Ought Six]

First, Michael Moore is *not* a documentarian. He is a cheap, sleazy political propagandist.

Second, the MSM was all over McCain's Canal Zone birth certificate, but have buried some rather serious questions about the authenticity of Obama's Hawaii birth certificate and the fact that local authorities in Hawaii are refusing to release copies of it to anyone. There may be nothing there, but it is a huge story that the MSM is simply refusing to cover. Their blatant pro-Obama bias on a variety of issues is so obvious that comedians have been lampooning it.

Third, the idea that McCain was "treated OK" by his Vietnamese captors is too idiotic to merit serious comment. To this day, McCain cannot lift one arm above shoulder level and has severely limited use of that arm due to injuries inflicted by his captors during his torture.

[Cornerstone]

Heard of Fox news anyone

[SBL]

Heard of Fox news anyone
Why yes, I have!

[deagle]

i don't think its heroic to bomb civilians (or insurgents posing as civilians), nor is it heroic to get shot down in military ops. but the heroic part is facing uncertainty in captivity and surviving it out basically.

[wildcat]

i don't think its heroic to bomb civilians (or insurgents posing as civilians), nor is it heroic to get shot down in military ops. but the heroic part is facing uncertainty in captivity and surviving it out basically.
So people that fought else where, were they not heroic?, the troops on the ground, the Sailors at sea, the USMC, and all the other US forces fighting, are you saying they were not heroic, just because they were not "facing uncertainty in captivity and surviving it out basically", because that is what it sounds like you saying.

[Hollis]

i don't think its heroic to bomb civilians (or insurgents posing as civilians), nor is it heroic to get shot down in military ops. but the heroic part is facing uncertainty in captivity and surviving it out basically.


Not wanting to get into a pecker measuring contest, Someone shooting SAMS at you might say something. Was that being more heroic than any other person in the Military being shot at, maybe not. Heroic is one of those terms that gets thrown out a lot. I think it is how it is used. Just standing up for what is right can seen heroic when no one else is standing up.


As far as how this has got to do with anything about the job being the President of the US, I don't know. I think it is a part of marketing the candidate for a win or lost depending on who is doing the marketing. I think on the resume' it is a plus but not a necessity.


I wonder if those who played down or discredited Geo. Bush being a Harvard grad will also apply that to Obama. I think graduating from Harvard is a plus for both people.

[The Balkan]

McCain was kind of a crappy 'soldier'. When you actualy look at his record from his school days to the POW stuff and all that. The guy who was like last in his class is now the expert on everything and anything to do with war.

[Johnny_H02]

**** Michael Fat ass Moore.

[Zoomie]

McCain was kind of a crappy 'soldier'. When you actualy look at his record from his school days to the POW stuff and all that. The guy who was like last in his class is now the expert on everything and anything to do with war.
Ah yes, because crappy soldiers get to become pilots, squadron commanders, and were able to turn around a undistinguished unit and get it to win a Meritorious Unit Commendation. Riiight. :roll:

Tell me, who really cares about your college GPA once you're out of college?

[widi243]

Donno.

What were the conditions of his prison?

To my knowledge, Vietnamese treated OK those who were coerced into cooperation.

It means lack of knowledge or it was written i SU history books ??
Come be POW isn't easy no metter who's POW you are.
And if The North Vietnamese take lessons with their sioviet teachers he is very lucky that he survived.

[vryhpyammoadded]

Bombing civvies… LOL, I’ve always loved hearing this sort of nonsense from those, denial and displacement at all cost creeps. Then again with M&M, it’s more about denial and displacement for profit. You have to admit, there’s one heck of a market for the childishness of pseudo intellectual, Marxist, passive/aggressive, apologist, self loathing, anti nationalist, deconstructionist propaganda.

Hearing this sort of drivel from Moore reminds me of a story from a former Hanoi Hilton guest of how his squadron of A-4 Skyhawks was ordered to bomb a certain North Vietnamese vehicle depot adjacent to a school. They performed there mission near flawlessly up till the moment one bomb erred outside the depot, landing square on the school. He said that the secondary explosions resulting near knocked his A-4, then a few thousand feet up, out of the sky.
Damn silly civvies storing explosives like that.

[Atlantic Friend]

Well, I think if you're running for President of the United States, using your service record towards political gain would probably be mandatory. Especially to appeal to the side of patriotism.

Reminds me of a guy who did the same, what was his name again ? John...John....John K-something. p-)

[Laconian]

McCain was kind of a crappy 'soldier'. When you actualy look at his record from his school days to the POW stuff and all that. The guy who was like last in his class is now the expert on everything and anything to do with war.

You know what the guy ranked No. 1 graduating Annapolis is called? Ensign (or 2LT if he options USMC). You know what the guy graduating last in his class at Annapolis is called? Ensign (or 2LT if he options USMC). Just because a guy finishes last in his class at Annapolis doesn't mean he stopped learning as an adult.

He then went on to a pretty successful career in the Navy, achieving the rank of CAPT (O-6), returning to flight status after his POW days when they told him not only would he probably never fly again, they were pushing him to medically retire. I also believe he has an advanced degree, but I might be wrong.

I don't know if he is an expert or not on all things military, but he certainly has more experience in that arena than his adversary. Will that be helpful? I don't know but he has more experience to draw on

[budgie]

left's own litle version of Limbaugh - a loudmouth who sensationalises the truth and clouds it with opinion. I expect this kind of crap from him, but it's not going to amount to a successful swiftboating campaign. For those who are wondering whether to vote for McCain or have already chosen Obama, his service is probably not one of their main concerns in the first place.

[cone256]

Then all of the bombs dropped in the Pacific during WWII, well the operations lasted about the same time, so one would think that they might equal each other.

[LineDoggie]

McCain was kind of a crappy 'soldier'. When you actualy look at his record from his school days to the POW stuff and all that. The guy who was like last in his class is now the expert on everything and anything to do with war.

And this guy couldn't pass the test to enter ETH Zurich, the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology-

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h222/linedoggie/einstein-albert-tongue-9901231.jpg


Guess that makes him some kind of Tard, eh?:roll:

[helomech]

McCain was kind of a crappy 'soldier'. When you actualy look at his record from his school days to the POW stuff and all that. The guy who was like last in his class is now the expert on everything and anything to do with war.

We're you a know-it-all when you got out of school and the best worker in the shop on your first day of work?I think not

Just because someone finishes first in his class doesn't mean he can put two and two together.McCain did a pretty good job of finishing out his career in the Navy and has suceeded as a Senator.

When you graduate from high school or college,you have book smarts not real world experience which come later.
As it's been mentioned already-Moore is a fat fvcking sensationalist and the Dems don't have sh1t to bring to the table and,hopefully the American voters will see that when it comes to Election Day

[The Balkan]

And this guy couldn't pass the test to enter ETH Zurich, the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology-

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h222/linedoggie/einstein-albert-tongue-9901231.jpg


Guess that makes him some kind of Tard, eh?:roll:


Yea well when McCain splits the atom I'll give him a break :)

Plus we all know Einstein stole from his genius wife p-)

But seriosly there's just nothing impressive about McCain. Well maybe there is in the United States, but elsewhere he's a dime a dozen. A politican who was in a war, how amazing! Well he's not even that, he spent most of it in a cell.

[Calanen]

Donno.

What were the conditions of his prison?

To my knowledge, Vietnamese treated OK those who were coerced into cooperation.

Then you have *very* little knowledge.

Read this, which I have posted here before:

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/2008/01/28/john-mccain-prisoner-of-war-a-first-person-account.html

[Polygon]

It wasn't his choice to spend it in a cell, it takes a tremendous amount of inner strength to be able to survive that long in the conditions of the "Hanoi Hotel."

[Laconian]

Yea well when McCain splits the atom I'll give him a break :)

Plus we all know Einstein stole from his genius wife p-)

But seriosly there's just nothing impressive about McCain. Well maybe there is in the United States, but elsewhere he's a dime a dozen. A politican who was in a war, how amazing! Well he's not even that, he spent most of it in a cell.


By that account, when you become a fighter pilot, fly numerous combat missions, survive several years of brutal captivity, then I'll consider your dismissal of his accomplishments as credible.

If he was a dime a dozen the world would be a better place, because more people of character would be in it. If you fail to see how overcoming that type of ordeal is a testament to one's character, there's no helping you understand because it beyond your grasp. It doesn't matter that he's a Republican or Democrat the ordeal and his survival of it says something about him.

[helomech]

By that account, when you become a fighter pilot, fly numerous combat missions, survive several years of brutal captivity, then I'll consider your dismissal of his accomplishments as credible.

If he was a dime a dozen the world would be a better place, because more people of character would be in it. If you fail to see how overcoming that type of ordeal is a testament to one's character, there's no helping you understand because it beyond your grasp. It doesn't matter that he's a Republican or Democrat the ordeal and his survival of it says something about him.

X123456789

Well put Laconian,well put

[wildcat]

By that account, when you become a fighter pilot, fly numerous combat missions, survive several years of brutal captivity, then I'll consider your dismissal of his accomplishments as credible.

If he was a dime a dozen the world would be a better place, because more people of character would be in it. If you fail to see how overcoming that type of ordeal is a testament to one's character, there's no helping you understand because it beyond your grasp. It doesn't matter that he's a Republican or Democrat the ordeal and his survival of it says something about him.
I third this post X3, strong 1111!!!!1111!!!!1111

[SBL]

Yea well when McCain splits the atom I'll give him a break :)

Plus we all know Einstein stole from his genius wife p-)

But seriosly there's just nothing impressive about McCain. Well maybe there is in the United States, but elsewhere he's a dime a dozen. A politican who was in a war, how amazing! Well he's not even that, he spent most of it in a cell.

Heh, what prison did you spend 6 years in?

-edit-

Kudos, Laconian.

[The Balkan]

By that account, when you become a fighter pilot, fly numerous combat missions, survive several years of brutal captivity, then I'll consider your dismissal of his accomplishments as credible.

If he was a dime a dozen the world would be a better place, because more people of character would be in it. If you fail to see how overcoming that type of ordeal is a testament to one's character, there's no helping you understand because it beyond your grasp. It doesn't matter that he's a Republican or Democrat the ordeal and his survival of it says something about him.

He's a dime a dozen. It's obvious you're a fan of him and impressed by him. I'm not, I don't find anything special about his "character". I know people who have gone through more then him, so why would I think he's special? His accomplishmnts? Lol what did he actualy DO? Besides not die? If I fall off a cliff and somehow live am I a hero? If I'm in a wheelchair am I a hero? He didn't sell out his pals, good for him, it's what's expected. It doesn't make him special it just makes those who do leave their buddies scum.

No I wouldn't want more "people like him". Dudes filthy rich, he doesn't even know how many homes he has, while he calls others elitist. What a testament to his character.

[The Balkan]

Heh, what prison did you spend 6 years in?

-edit-

Kudos, Laconian.

Again, we're not all impressed by common things like soemone surviving prison or being a POW. I'm not bashing it, I'm saying he's not special.

And how do you know where me or my family spent time in? I've been through my fair share and so has my father, I don't consider ourselves heroes.

[Zoomie]

He's a dime a dozen. It's obvious you're a fan of him and impressed by him. I'm not, I don't find anything special about his "character". I know people who have gone through more then him, so why would I think he's special? His accomplishmnts? Lol what did he actualy DO? Besides not die? If I fall off a cliff and somehow live am I a hero? If I'm in a wheelchair am I a hero? He didn't sell out his pals, good for him, it's what's expected. It doesn't make him special it just makes those who do leave their buddies scum.

No I wouldn't want more "people like him". Dudes filthy rich, he doesn't even know how many homes he has, while he calls others elitist. What a testament to his character.
ROFL, you're just making this stuff up as you go.

[boone]

It doesn't matter that he's a Republican or Democrat the ordeal and his survival of it says something about him.
Indeed it does. It speaks to personal strength and perseverance and character. All qualities that I'd like to see in the leader of the most powerful nation on Earth, and my closest neighbour.
IMO it does not automatically qualify someone for office, though.

[helomech]

He's a dime a dozen. It's obvious you're a fan of him and impressed by him. I'm not, I don't find anything special about his "character". I know people who have gone through more then him, so why would I think he's special? His accomplishmnts? Lol what did he actualy DO? Besides not die? If I fall off a cliff and somehow live am I a hero? If I'm in a wheelchair am I a hero? He didn't sell out his pals, good for him, it's what's expected. It doesn't make him special it just makes those who do leave their buddies scum.

No I wouldn't want more "people like him". Dudes filthy rich, he doesn't even know how many homes he has, while he calls others elitist. What a testament to his character.

Take a break,nap or something-you appear to be foaming at the mouth

[SBL]

He's a dime a dozen. It's obvious you're a fan of him and impressed by him. I'm not, I don't find anything special about his "character". I know people who have gone through more then him, so why would I think he's special? His accomplishmnts? Lol what did he actualy DO? Besides not die? If I fall off a cliff and somehow live am I a hero? If I'm in a wheelchair am I a hero? He didn't sell out his pals, good for him, it's what's expected. It doesn't make him special it just makes those who do leave their buddies scum.

No I wouldn't want more "people like him". Dudes filthy rich, he doesn't even know how many homes he has, while he calls others elitist. What a testament to his character.

I think you should probably be asking yourself what did you do that affords you such a lofty position. I'm pretty sure we already know the answer, though.
If enduring and overcoming years of the worst kind of hardship doesn't impress you, than I don't suppose anything will. Although I'm sure your acquaintances appreciate the fact that you trivialize their experiences as run-of-the-mill.

[The Balkan]

Ok how about this. Where I'm from we're not impressed by what every 3rd guy on the street's been through.

Happy?

[muck]

Michael Moore is a polemic asshat, there's no doubt about that.

McCain has made an incredible sacrifice for his country for which he had to suffer. The American people owe him respect that he continued to serve his country nonetheless even after this experience. However, just to have been a Prisoner Of War doesn't automatically make him the better president.

[DID]

However, just to have been a Prisoner Of War doesn't automatically make him the better president.

X2
I give him the respect that I will never give to Obama, not that I dont respect him, but he didn't pay as McCain for his country.

[Doublethinker]

Then you have *very* little knowledge.

Read this, which I have posted here before:

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/2008/01/28/john-mccain-prisoner-of-war-a-first-person-account.html

For God's sake please forgive me, everyone.

My life doesn't revolve around either McCain or a prison in Hanoi. :-(

Thanks to all who shared links.

[Dercius]

Moore you big fat bag o sh_t, you'd crap your pants and cry for your mommy in the first 5 nanoseconds of being in enemy captivity, and sell your country out for a Twinkie.

Scratch that, you'd actually do it for free.

x123456789

Yes,all this fat bastard does is to heat burgers and backstab the men and women serving in the armed forces. Sometimes I think that tons of people take their freedom and rights as granted, and most of them are just a bunch of bastards who woudnt move a finger to make any difference. Im sure that would have Moore lived in France 1940 after the occupation he would just have been a Gestapo colaborator selling its own people for Frankfurts and Beer.

[SBL]

Ok how about this. Where I'm from we're not impressed by what every 3rd guy on the street's been through.

Happy?I tend to think that if you were so close to suffering as you imply, you'd recognize and appreciate another's hardship a little better.

[The Balkan]

I tend to think that if you were so close to suffering as you imply, you'd recognize and appreciate the hardship of another a little better.

I respect that he didn't leave his friends but I don't think he's anything special. He only is maybe by comparison. Put YOU in a certain crowd and YOU'LL be special too.

I just don't think it makes him president material in any way. Plus he milks and exploits his story every chance he gets.

He called Obama elitist. The guy's filthy rich and he doesn't know how HOUSES he has. What character!

[Zoomie]

For God's sake please forgive me, everyone.

My life doesn't revolve around either McCain or a prison in Hanoi. :-(

Thanks to all who shared links.
Even so, don't you think you should do a *little* research before spouting off?

[Zoomie]

He called Obama elitist. The guy's filthy rich and he doesn't know how HOUSES he has. What character!
Actually, he's not, his wife is. And guess what, he doesn't own any houses, his wife owns them all.

[JJC]

He's a dime a dozen. It's obvious you're a fan of him and impressed by him. I'm not, I don't find anything special about his "character".

A U.S. Naval Academy graduate and a successful officer with a rank of captain, a successful CAREER politician particularly a U.S. senator. Yep, there is a dime of dozen of these.:roll: I did not qualify for the Annapolis academy, nor will my political science major land me a job at the U.S. Senate any time soon. lol

[The Balkan]

Actually, he's not, his wife is. And guess what, he doesn't own any houses, his wife owns them all.

Big difference. If Obama's wife was super rich McCain fans wouldn't make that distinction. They'd just say "Obama is rich".

[SBL]

I respect that he didn't leave his friends but I don't think he's anything special. He only is maybe by comparison. Put YOU in a certain crowd and YOU'LL be special too.

I just don't think it makes him president material in any way. Plus he milks and exploits his story every chance he gets.

He called Obama elitist. The guy's filthy rich and he doesn't know how HOUSES he has. What character!


Heh, right.:roll:
Goes back to the original question- what have you done that affords you the ability to look down your nose at it? You'll forgive me if I'm as dismissive of your opinion as you seem to be of Sen. McCain's sacrifices.

As for the rest of your post- at least we know who we're dealing with now. You keep toeing that party line, buddy.

[wildcat]

I respect that he didn't leave his friends but I don't think he's anything special. He only is maybe by comparison. Put YOU in a certain crowd and YOU'LL be special too.

I just don't think it makes him president material in any way. Plus he milks and exploits his story every chance he gets.

He called Obama elitist. The guy's filthy rich and he doesn't know how HOUSES he has. What character!

I guess you brain must be stuck in retard, Obama is mega rich too, this thread is not about houses nor Obama, it about piss of sh1t moore opening his fat flabby month. you sounding like a real c*nt, anybody that been a POW, in Vietnam has been though stuff 99.9% of us never will, so show some respect.

[The Balkan]

Heh, right.:roll:
Goes back to the original question- what have you done that affords you the ability to look down your nose at it? You'll forgive me if I'm as dismissive of your opinion as you seem to be of Sen. McCain's sacrifices.

As for the rest of your post- at least we know who we're dealing with now. You keep toeing that party line, buddy.

I'm not gonna get into a **** measuring contest over who's been through more bad stuff lol. It's irrelevant. I don't care about McCain's esperiences in Vietnam.


I guess you brain must be stuck in retard, Obama is mega rich too, this thread is not about houses nor Obama, it about piss of sh1t moore opening his fat flabby month. you sounding like a real c*nt, anybody that been a POW, in Vietnam has been though stuff 99.9% of us never will, so show some respect.

Insult me all you want, makes no difference to me and it's not gonna make McCain become a superhero in my eyes or anyone I know for that matter.

[SBL]

I'm not gonna get into a **** measuring contest over who's been through more bad stuff lol. It's irrelevant. I don't care about McCain's esperiences in Vietnam.


Yeah, that's what I thought. I'd call you out as a charlatan if I weren't a nicer guy.

[The Balkan]

Yeah, that's what I thought. I'd call you out as a charlatan if I weren't a nicer guy.

What? you want me to start listing horrible thinga that have happend to me or family? How gay would that be? Online?

No thanks.

You can belive what you want and I'll keep being unimpressed by McCain.

[SBL]

What? you want me to start listing horrible thinga that have happend to me or family? How gay would that be? Online?

No thanks.

You can belive what you want and I'll keep being unimpressed by McCain.
You are not your family. I'm not sure they'd appreciate your trotting out their "ordinary" sufferings, even in passing, as if they were your own experiences in order to win an online debate.

That's pretty much all I have to say.

[Laconian]

Insult me all you want, makes no difference to me and it's not gonna make McCain become a superhero in my eyes or anyone I know for that matter.

I don't think anyone here is labeling McCain as a super hero; I'm certainly not. I'm not a big supporter of the guy politically. I didn't vote for him in my state's primary. I read his book and I've read about him in several others. The guy has walked a walk I wouldn't try to/want to. That to me is impressive, the same way reading the exploits of MOH, DSC, or Navy Cross awardees is impressive and then meeting them. They are men who really found themselves in extraordinary circumstances and endured or conquered the situation. So, you can pooh-pooh those things as commonplace all you want, here those things are rare.

However, I also know what he did, he did out of a sense of duty, not because of how it would look politically 40 years down the road, that's what makes it admirable.

[California Joe]

Balkan, you do your country, or geographic location that war crimes took place in, proud. You sound like you're a seriously tough character. Perhaps someone assraped you as a youngster or you were the inspiration for the movie franchise "Hostel". I don't much care.

Frankly, it looks to me like you don't really have a dog in this fight at all. Unless you're one of those expatriate c*nts that likes to break bad on the interwebs because of your heritage but is busy living the good life in the US.

Thank you for your condescention, but if you can't actually vote for the President and continue in this vein I'm going to nuke your account.

[The Balkan]

Both of you look at my original post and see all I said was pretty much "McCain isn't that great".

I didn't go into some deep rant about how he's not tough and I am. That came from the assumptions and attacks from others since they had to defend him. But this argument is boring, I'm done. (btw im in canada now not the us :))

[California Joe]

How old are you? It's a relevant question.

[V.I.D.]

Ok how about this. Where I'm from we're not impressed by what every 3rd guy on the street's been through.

Happy?

Well, I can't believe that I am actually agreeing with you on something, but this rings very true to me. I guess where we come from, it is not actually polite or particularly ballsy to live off of your POW rep, or even worse, to try to cash on it. But to each his own, right?

[wildcat]

I guess where we come from, it is not actually polite or particularly ballsy to live off of your POW rep, or even worse, to try to cash on it. But to each his own, right?
What are you talking about?

[Kilgor]

Moore you big fat bag o sh_t, you'd crap your pants and cry for your mommy in the first 5 nanoseconds of being in enemy captivity, and sell your country out for a Twinkie.

Scratch that, you'd actually do it for free.

Id say he'd go down on his captors like the two dollar whore he is.

Plus he wouldn't even fit in a fighter cockpit.

[Hot Lips]

I'm not gonna get into a **** measuring contest over who's been through more bad stuff lol. It's irrelevant. I don't care about McCain's esperiences in Vietnam.

Incase you change your mind (http://vintagesewing.info/19th/1892-sn/illust/005.jpg).

[California Joe]

He doesn't live off his "POW rep" you amazingly ignorant interweb badass type personna. All you hard motherf*ckas from the Eastside "neighborhood" should have invented rap instead of hating Albanians and dressing up your prom dates like hookers and shemales. Take a break toughguy.

[LineDoggie]

Incase you change your mind (http://vintagesewing.info/19th/1892-sn/illust/005.jpg).


Too much credit, you give him, LOL....

[Bia]

I mean, from what I gather, McCain was a valuable asset for the Vietnamese - he wasn't just a regular soldier after all.
To my knowledge, Vietnamese treated OK those who were coerced into cooperation
"to your knowledge" ???
Not really living up to that membername now are we?


Newsflash... McCain was tortured dozens and dozens of times with massive injuries from his bailout and capture.

John McCain had a chance to leave.... and didnt. He took a pass on his easy out.


Hero? Obviously.

[V.I.D.]

What are you talking about?

Nevermind the comment, it is a difference in mentality, and it can't be explained here (in a couple of paragraphs). Enjoy the elections.

P.S. M. Moore is quite f...ng annoying with his poorly hidden self-promotion masked as "documentaries". He needs to let the facts speak for themselves instead of adding his own biases to some interesting topics.

[wildcat]

Nevermind the comment, it is a difference in mentality, and it can't be explained here (in a couple of paragraphs). Enjoy the elections.

P.S. M. Moore is quite f...ng annoying with his poorly hidden self-promotion masked as "documentaries". He needs to let the facts speak for themselves instead of adding his own biases to some interesting topics.
I cannot enjoy the elections, I hate Obama and McCain for President.

Yes Moore is a flabby fat bastard self promoting fat fvck cvnt and I hope he drops dead of heart failure.

[V.I.D.]

He doesn't live off his "POW rep" you amazingly ignorant interweb badass type personna. All you hard motherf*ckas from the Eastside "neighborhood" should have invented rap instead of hating Albanians and dressing up your prom dates like hookers and shemales. Take a break toughguy.

If you were referring to me with this childish comment, then I suggest you start reading some better books, Mr. Eastwood. By the way, I don't care about the rap music nor do I hate Albanians. I just don't like the idea of people selling everything today, one's integrity included. Cheers!

[orionhawk]

Umm... he was referring to someone else, I think. He's also a Mod. Enjoy your stay here at MP.net.

[Bia]

If you were referring to me with this childish comment, then I suggest you start reading some better books, Mr. Eastwood. By the way, I don't care about the rap music nor do I hate Albanians. I just don't like the idea of people selling everything today, one's integrity included. Cheers!
I dont think he was talking to you.


But will be soon.

:P

[Zoomie]

"to your knowledge" ???
Not really living up to that membername now are we?


Bia,
Maybe not his username, but definitely his user title:

Doublethinker (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=20226)
MP.NET Double Dumbarse of the week 05 - 09 November 07/12 - 16 November 07

[evanfitz]

How old are you? It's a relevant question.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2239/2089772787_7057818942.jpg?v=0

[rhino]

somebody pass the popcorn this is great


oh yeah, fvcking moore should do all a favor and drop dead, with his weigh problem I hope he wont make it to the emergency room when his ticker gives up

[Polygon]

You sound like you're a seriously tough character. Perhaps someone assraped you as a youngster or you were the inspiration for the movie franchise "Hostel". I don't much care.


Nice one! rofl

[Kilgor]

Moore struggles to find legitimacy and relevance in a Bush free election.

He should retire and die on a toilet seat like elvis, sans the contribution to society and culture.

[LineDoggie]

Michael Moore

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h222/linedoggie/hungryhungryhippybytimshinn734.jpg


In the words of My Fellow New Yawkers, he's a Schmuck.

[SilentType]

This highlights Moore's weight is mostly from the huge amount of **** he is full of.

I've never seen a man who had such pure venom and hate for his own country. I suspect some of it is an act to line his pockets and keep him self fat off the good life.

[Calanen]

[/URL]

[URL=http://imageshack.us]http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/1350/lardassyl8.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)

[Bia]

This highlights Moore's weight is mostly from the huge amount of **** he is full of.

I've never seen a man who had such pure venom and hate for his own country. I suspect some of it is an act to line his pockets and keep him self fat off the good life.

He is misguided for sure.... but I say in all seriousness..... I truely believe he loves this country....just hates the foundation that makes it what it is.
He hates big business.....but big business has ensured no American will ever starve to death.....that his gluttonous self can get a taco for 69 cents.... even the working poor can lease a car and have a cellphone... have running water and elect and cheap basic goods.

This is the land of milk & honey.....and he loves this land for sure..... he's just ignorant to REAL life.... the thing he claims to have in common woth the working stiffs.....
I call BS on his "working class" lifestyle but also believe... he really believes he's right and does love the USA.

In America my income ranks very very low but on a planetary human scale I am in the mid 80% and am very grateful for it. I dont need gluttonous limousine liberals speaking for me Mr Moore!

;)

[brainplay]

This highlights Moore's weight is mostly from the huge amount of **** he is full of.

I've never seen a man who had such pure venom and hate for his own country. I suspect some of it is an act to line his pockets and keep him self fat off the good life.

+1

They've followed this guy around before and he does have a pure hate for the US. Not very surprisingly though he'll go hypocritical to make his life comfy. His "documentaries" are a sham that take people out of context but he's got good lawyers so he get sued successfully rarely.

Not even code Pink is willing to spew this kind of Vietnam era drivel thats he's trying to push now. Crap, is he so desperate to find his next big hit movie?

[ColinP]

Well it takes more guts than waddling down to the 7-11 for a slushy and certainly more guts than editing interviews and film to make things seem a certain way.

[Gunge]

Michael Moore

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h222/linedoggie/hungryhungryhippybytimshinn734.jpg


In the words of My Fellow New Yawkers, he's a Schmuck.

you can say that again

fat canadian(no offense to the Canucks)

[Mr X]

Donno.

What were the conditions of his prison?

To my knowledge, Vietnamese treated OK those who were coerced into cooperation.

McCain did not co-operate, if he had, he might have taken the North Vietnamese up on their offer of early repatriation. This offer was made because of McCain's father. The North Vietnamese were looking for propaganda and McCain didnt give it to them.

Anyone with half a brain knows that McCain wasn't bombing civilians when he was shot down.

Moore is simply following his leftist agenda and as usual spreading, Lies, Half-truths with a minor sprinkling of the truth.

[ColinP]

Plus I would not be to hard on anyone that had a weak moment in a Vietnamese prision camp, I doubt that 99% of the people in the US could even fathom what it most have been like. My friend survived the Japanese camp at Manila, so listening to him gives me a bit of an idea of what it must have been like for McCain.